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File: 1608528927191.png (461.93 KB, 860x1214, 83825962_p0.png)

 No.2588

Why do people on the "Left" tar anime as being nationalist when most American movies and almost all capeshit is much more nationalist than most anime.

 No.2590

American leftists still have a lot of nationalistic hangups and project the worst of their cultures onto other cultures. Projection is actually a neutral thing that most people do. You assume that people are more like yourself than they really are.

 No.2591

>>2588
>implying that modern anime isn't directly influenced and targeting American markets.
>implying that modern anime isn't a product of US control of Japan
>implying that enjoying media without going into its ideological ramifications is impossible.

 No.2592

I don't watch american shit

 No.2593

>>2588
Because leftists are naturally crotchety. They're a very ornery species. Either, or they over-analyse shit. They can't suspend judgement even for a second.

 No.2594

>>2588
>on the "Left"
Assuming you mean liberals, they basically think American nationalism is cool and good so long as it's not called by that name and isn't explicitly racist.

 No.2595

>>2591
>>implying that enjoying media without going into its ideological ramifications is impossible.
OP didn't even mention enjoyment though.

 No.2596

>>2595
Typically "the Left" when going after an anime due to its ideological ramifications also tends to hate on the anime itself because it doesn't fit their ideological morlas.

 No.2598

>>2588
There was a fascinating article by Eiji Ōtsuka that was translated and published by Thomas Lamarre in Mechademia a couple years ago called "An Unholy Alliance of Eisenstein and Disney: The Fascist Origins of Otaku Culture". It basically showed how Japan's animation industry has roots in Showa fascist recuperation of Constructivist film theory (imported from the Soviet Union) to create Disney-like propaganda films. These circumstances are very unique as far as state propaganda goes and the advent of the "Cool Japan" reignited discussion of this. An unfortunately common "leftist" (I would say, liberal) interpretation tends to frame all anime as fascist (or at the very least, reactionary) but this is usually just cope meant to explain away all of the anime avis in their mentions who're unironically spewing fascist talking points. Neither are particularly interested in the industry, its history, nor its workers' struggles. Rather, they're just looking for something to complain about.
>almost all capeshit is much more nationalist than most anime.
As far as I know, America isn't putting like, Marvel's Avengers onto military equipment yet. The "soft power" of Japan's cultural output is all they're really allowed to have on the world stage. With Shinzo Abe's resignation and plan to complete his grandfather's dream of expanding the JSDF foiled due to Ulcerative colitis, I assume this will remain unchanged for many more years to come.

 No.2599

>>2598
>As far as I know, America isn't putting like, Marvel's Avengers
Are they putting anime onto military equipment? I am pretty sure the military is involved in Marvel movies due to their ability to rent military equipment to Hollywood on the cheap. The film "Captain Marvel" had airforce adverts running before the screening. Superheroes are the ultimate Randian wetdream. Ubermenschen dealing out justice where the government fails to show results. Not that the medium is reactionary as a whole. The "British Invasion" created a space for nominally more liberal, even leftwing publication.
Anyways, I think the topic of reactionary media is silly. Not because culture is bereft of ideological ramifications, but because even radical art has the tendency for recuperation. The talk of art and culture has been a century long development in socialist thinking. Perhaps we have learned enough to know that ideology does not rest upon the media itself, but the superstructure.

 No.2600

>>2599
When we establish socialism, there will be a more progressive medium of anime and capeshit.

 No.2601

Actually Americans don't realize just how nationalistic their own film industry is. They don't notice because it like any propaganda that works has been drilled into them since long ago.
See that interview with Oliver Stone.
Anyways, expecting that "popular" media will be more radical is not going to be productive. When the world gets FALC perhaps then things will be different.

 No.2604

>>2601
>sage
why?

 No.2605

File: 1608528928141.png (17.96 KB, 633x758, 1458351986486.png)

bro, anime out there sexualising children, normalising rapists and molesteres as gag characters, completely distorted relationship ideals every god damn time its regressive as fuck

 No.2606

>>2605
I dunno about sexualizing children, but "normalizing" rape and harrassment through jokes is something you see in a lot of "dirty" American comedies like The Hangover or Seth MacFarlane type shit. As for distorted relationship ideals, see maybe every chick flick ever made.
Never mind the fact that this post is a huge generalization and it's this kind of assumption that all animation produced in Japan is basically the same that reveals critics of anime as ridiculously ethnocentric.

 No.2607

>>2606
>rape and harrassment through jokes is something you see in a lot of "dirty" American comedies like The Hangover or Seth MacFarlane type shit.
they are also regressive your bourgeoi degenerate

 No.2608

>>2607
What do you think the point of this thread is, retard?

 No.2616

File: 1608528928763.jpg (62.83 KB, 550x543, 3ewk9y.jpg)

>>2605
>shooter video games normalising school shootings

 No.2619

>>2616
>Not muh senseless violence!!!
KYS derailer

 No.2620

>>2599
>Are they putting anime onto military equipment?
Yeah, I vividly remember seeing photos of anime girls painted on the sides of attack helicopters a couple years ago. But it goes deeper than that. The JSDF under Abe leaned heavily into anime for recruitment; much more than what the US Military typically does with film (although I think they're starting to catch on if you take a quick look at recent developments like the US Army Esports Team). Otherwise I agree with you; it is pretty silly.
>>2605
Does watching anime turn you into a mass murdering pedophile rapist? No. This is a boring conversation. Japan already had it when the Heisei era started with the Otaku Killer case—and that was a decade before Columbine.

 No.2625

Few American movies are blatant reactionary fascist garbage as crap like girls und panzer, attack on titan, Tanya the evil and darling in the franxx and those are just the ones that come to mind.

 No.2626

>>2625
Darling in the Franxx is fascist? I never watched a single episode since it looked like garbage

 No.2627

>>2626
Not them but it's very natalist. The protagonists are male (stamen) and female (pistil) pilots called "Parasites" who were born in vitro. They're tasked with fighting the "Klaxosaurs" in a post-apocalyptic world where humanity lives in giant mobile domes called "Plantations" that look like they came straight out of Archigram. Things like "Procreation" and "Relationships" have been rendered taboo thanks to medical advancements in life extension. So of course, the biggest act of rebellion in this future is to have sex and marry for the sanctity of human life. One might argue that the show could've ended with a recitation of the 14 words and the message would've been the same. Also, the religious group and twist antagonists (APE) that have been telling everyone to *not* do those things are secretly controlled by aliens (VIRM) who will stop at nothing to exploit the Earth. I wonder if anyone at Studio Trigger has read The Protocols of the Elders of Zion. There's lots of fascist imagery and german naming conventions throughout the show, too. It starts to get pretty incoherent after Episode 14 iirc; that's when all of the above happens.

 No.2628

>>2627
OH! I forgot to mention that the male and female pilots are paired together based on how well they're able to develop a relationship. There's even an episode where they try to pair two pistils together but it doesn't work because one of them didn't role that way. Not so subtle jab at LGBT characters; brief controversy during the show's runtime that indicated early-on just how unimaginative the writing and world building was.

 No.2629

>>2625
>Tanya the evil
See: >>801; I haven't seen Girls und Panzer. I remember reading something about eugenics advocacy in Attack on Titan, though. Still, there's a plethora of American films that are "blatantly" reactionary fascist garbage, ones that predate Japan's animation industry, too. I suspect you just haven't really looked for them.

 No.2631

>>2629
Attack on Titan takes a turn to pretty much be pro-Imperial Japan revanchist garbage after a while, there was a very through reddit post examining this but I can't find it. Anyways, what I'm going at is that yeah America has shit like Birth of a Nation and pretty much all war movies but I think all of these have a very blatant "AMERICA GOOD, NAZIS/IRAQ BAD" whereas with anime things are more subtle and what you may think is just another mecha anime with fanservice or a fantasy story about people killing giants is actually fascist natalist propaganda ordered by Shinzo Abe himself that a lot of less-receptive viewers may not get.
Then again, maybe I'm just biased and have already normalized the propaganda present in American/western media and thus get weirded out by media from other countries.

 No.2632

>>2629
>>2631
I wouldn't really say Attack on Titan is advocating anything, it's been through a number of arcs now where maybe that seemed the case only to overturn them with a twist. It's just endless, mindless carnage at this point.

 No.2635

>>2629
GuP is pretty much just a sports anime, that anon is talking out their ass. It's popular with anime nazis since it got German tanks but you can't really blame the show for it.

 No.2637

>>2635
Sports are fascist

 No.2638

So is exercising.

 No.2639

File: 1608528930431.jpg (70.91 KB, 485x276, IMMA KEEP IT REAL.jpg)


 No.2641

>>2635
It's militarist garbage that glorifies the fascist powers of the second world war. Go back to /pol/ with your wehraboo excuses

 No.2644

>>2631
Militarism in anime predates the Abe administration by decades; academics have been talking about its influence in mecha anime in particular for just as long. It's a big reason why I mentioned the Otaku Killer case here >>2620 because that was a turning point for many directors in the industry at the time. Hayao Miazaki is everyone's go-to example; by the late 90s we clearly see fewer instances of graphic violence and sexual themes in his films. It's dismissive to call it all "facist natalist propaganda" as Japan's government didn't really start to seriously help fund productions until the turn of the millennium. You're ignoring the years of left wing influence on anime/manga, as well as its many nuances (which would likely be deemed politically incorrect by western audiences anyway). A lot of this has to do with the language barrier, too; I don't wanna say it can't be helped, but most people who so quick to dismiss a whole industry's output like this aren't normally interested.

 No.2646

>>2641
I think he is right that it is pretty much just a sports anime. It does whitewash the Fascist powers, but that isn't really a focus in the show.

 No.2651

>>2646
tbh that only makes it worse

 No.2652

I unironically feel uncomfortable at the amount of militaristic things in weeb stuff that are named in German. Not that I'm going to over-analyze like some bored Twitterite but yeah, not a good vibe.
>>2598
In Japan the anime /pol/yps are called netouyo and have existed for a LONG time. On 2channel, Japan's most popular "social media" (is that the correct term?) site.

 No.2653

>>2644
>You're ignoring the years of left wing influence on anime/manga
The closest thing to a left wing message in anime is "war is bad" and that's more liberal moralizing that actually leftist

 No.2655

>>2653
The message isn't "war is bad" but "imperialism is bad" as you will note all those wars are in fact imperialist in nature.

 No.2658

>>2653
war is bad tho
There's no shame admitting it even if liberals agree with it.

 No.2659

>>2620
>Does watching anime turn you into a mass murdering pedophile rapist?
>>2616
wow, fedora grate arguments on bunkerchan. you weebs really are the worst
nobody, not me nor anybody reasonable, ever said that anime or media in general makes you do anything (as in directly determines your behaviour), that's completly besides the point. the point was simply that anime typically contains reactionary ideology and thus most leftists don't like it

 No.2660

>As far as I know, America isn't putting like, Marvel's Avengers onto military equipment yet.
It doesn't need to because the MCU is blatant in-your-face pro-military propaganda.
>The JSDF under Abe leaned heavily into anime for recruitment; much more than what the US Military typically does with film (although I think they're starting to catch on if you take a quick look at recent developments like the US Army Esports Team).
IIRC they (U.S. Armed Forces) focus more on video games than movies; they even have their own video game called America's Army.

Anyway, I'm not saying that nationalist/pro-military sentement in anime shouldn't be challenged, I do, however have a problem with saying that the entire animation output of a country as being inherently reactionary. I know that is sounds like what liberals call "whataboutism" but the historical revisionism surrounding the Vietnam War is far more pervasive and more insidious. Imagine if the NHK released a documentary stating that the Second Sino-Japanese War was "was begun in good faith by decent people out of fateful misunderstandings, … overconfidence and … misunderstandings". There would be anti-Japanese riots in the streets of Beijing and Seoul.

 No.2661

>>2659
I mean you're not necessarily wrong but pedophilia et all is not an ideology.

 No.2662

Also, check this article out, it focuses on horror instead of anime but I think the same dynamics are at work here. TL;DR, anime-bashers are moralistic Anglo chauvinists.

https://geotrickster.com/2020/07/02/woke-xenophobia-and-the-left-liberal-cromwellians/

>One of the reasons I suspect this is so xenophobic is because among the bien pensant posers who make up the followers-of-the-elite classes there are constant demands for ‘representation’ from fictional genres that are plenty diverse…but not necessarily in the English language. Film is global yet people who only watch Hollywood blockbusters and British twee-comedy are angry that they don’t see enough of the world reflected in that. This is because they are assuming that English language culture *is* world culture and are too lazy and nativistic to seek out and watch foreign films from across the planet. Something it is easier to do now than ever before.


>Marlon James (and others less noticed by the mainstream) pull from real history and mythology to tell unique fantasy stories from across space and time. Currently, China is producing tons of new and vibrant science fiction. Horror writers from the Middle East and Africa are making waves and Japan has been plugging along since Edogawa Rampo. But if it makes McSkaleighlough Connecticut-Kaleton uncomfortable by breaking Anglofied expectations than it must be of the devil. What these people really want is simple good vs evil narratives, Lord of the Rings in blackface. The Christian narrative secularized into liberal gruel. An affirmation of norms highly specific in time and place but assumed to be desirable to the entire world. After all, without these norms wokeness would be impossible.

 No.2664

File: 1608528932828.png (542.31 KB, 643x509, literally murder.png)

>>2659
>direct response to retard literally saying dumb shit
>"nobody said that"
funny retarded /pol/ converts that studied meme marxism for 2 months on leftybooru consider themselves "reasonable", you illiterate twat can go shove a log of shit down your throat and choke on it

pic related, this is now sexualizing murder and normalizing people going around massacring others with swords as tv show hosts
but i didn't just say that, sssh

 No.2665

>>2659
>anime typically contains reactionary ideology

>other capitalist media however is very different, pointing out anime makes me a very smart person, i am very intelligent and totally not a complete fucktard that got dickslapped unconscious by my uncle one too many times

 No.2666

>pretentious zizek maymay posting fucktard that can't even spell grade right but talks in "hurr hurr le fedora is you" format
spare the internet with your escapism from facing the reality that you need to just fucking do it

 No.2673

>>2664
Ok strawmanning faggot, COPE with your mental gymnastics

 No.2674

>>2666
>>2665
>>2664
LOL imagine same samefagging so hard
>muh spelling
LOL ok butthurt idiot

 No.2685

>>2628
Darling in the Franxx was garbage after the first half, and the enemies were lame, but I still enjoyed it. Zero Two also has one of the best developed bodies I've seen in a long time (she's basically Asuka updated) and the cosplay has been hot.

 No.2687

>>2674
>not giving a shit to put it all in one post
>samefagging
i can tell from your initial posts already that you are retarded, but of course you go off the deep end and further beyond how much of a retarded faggot you are

 No.2688

>>2687
>hurr ur retarded
brilliant argumentation

 No.2691

>>2688
touhou is not anime

 No.2696

>>2655
>imperialism bad
&ltat the same time praising the glorious Dai Nippon Teikoku with constant shots to the sun

 No.2761

anime is fascist

 No.2763

They both are

 No.2766


 No.2772

File: 1608528940862.jpg (104.34 KB, 1280x720, sexual-harrasment.jpg)

>>2766
Yeah and Love Live! is hentai because there are H-doujins of it, right?

 No.2773

Because Jap cartoons are all about glorifying and justifying the Japanese Empire

 No.2774

>>2772
To me, yes.

 No.2781

the denial in this thread is so hard, very popular stuff like attack on titan or gundam unicorn are made by fascists sympathizers that insert xenophobic messages in their stuff

 No.2782

>>2588
Because gringocentrism. People get incredibly mad when I point out that shit like the Avengers which had actual sponsorship by the DoD is much worse for the state of the world than like, Girls und Panzer which no one who isn't super online knows or cares about

 No.2840

>>2781
>attack on titan or gundam unicorn are made by fascists sympathizers that insert xenophobic messages
Weebs are so damn lazy. I hear this all the time but never see proof of it.

 No.2855

>>2840
Anything that isn't explicitly anti-war is often called that here.

 No.2899

File: 1608528949431.png (243.33 KB, 680x709, yes.png)


 No.2900

>>2781
I can enjoy right wing propaganda. James Bond is fun and Starship Troopers is one of my favorite military science fiction novels. Just because I enjoy that shit doesn't mean I take it seriously.

 No.2902

>>2900
>Starship Troopers novel
&ltRight Winger propaganda
Anon, I…
>>>/hobby/5931

 No.5486

Anime will estrogenize the otaku.

 No.5781

>>2652
>I unironically feel uncomfortable at the amount of militaristic things in weeb stuff that are named in German.
Me too, but don't military-reated terms usually get German(ic) names, especially in Japan because those terms entered the Japanese language before the equivalents in English and others (due to their alliance)?

 No.5786

Test the multiple file uploader.

 No.5817

>>2599
>I am pretty sure the military is involved in Marvel movies due to their ability to rent military equipment to Hollywood on the cheap.
The military is involved because Hollywood is literally their propaganda arm. The military and CIA both have offices devoted specifically to "consultation" where they review scripts, nixing the ones that they don't like and funding the ones that they do.

 No.5818

File: 1611107141680.jpg (427.07 KB, 600x900, 1210967209674.jpg)


 No.5839

>>2593
>They can't suspend judgement even for a second.
but lemme guess, the boycotts of star wars were different, right? we just said the movies were shit and left it at that, but you lot see "anti-white" bias in everything.

 No.5840

>>2605
bro, wojaks out there spreading hate, normalizing reactionaryism and nationalism as funny jokes, completely distorted human characteristics
the last part isn't "every god damn time" of course because I actually bothered to learn more about the subject than you did to learn about anime

 No.5841

>>2653
I believe he was referrring to Osamu Tezuka's involvement with the socialist party.

 No.5842

>>2660
> however have a problem with saying that the entire animation output of a country as being inherently reactionary.
you better, it's racist


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