You make no sense. Moe has nothing to do with Reactionaryism. And what the fuck is Manime? Did you just make that up now? Take your meds before posting.
Moe and cutesy is synonim with femeninity
Manime is manly anime like dbz or fist of the north star
Nothing but the same crap
If you don't know these common keywords before entering a thread you should lurk more
I've been posting for years. Every genre in every media has tropes and trends. It doesn't make everything reactionary. Reactionary isn't a synonym for "things I don't like".
He's talking about the reactionary gender roles in conservative imperialist Japan. Have you heard of the country before?
I like to watch Japanese cartoons sometimes
I like manly shit, so what? Plus can't women also be "manly" and cool? The fact that most moe/manime/shonen series are garbage and might be full of sexist cliches doesn't mean that they're inherently reactionary for having a certain storytelling or visual style. Also "femininity" and "masculinity" aren't inherently wrong, a guy can be moe and a girl can be manly badass (though it's a bit rare in the mainstream). And not all anime is either of the two.
If you hate reactionary gender roles, simply stick to the series that do it this way, of which there have been more in recent decades because it turns out that anime, like most industries, also capitalizes on progressive concepts.
>>9005>for having a certain storytelling or visual style
learn to read retard
Traditional isn't a synonym for Reactionary either. Reactionary means to use government policy to force things to go back which makes it other side of progressive which is government policy to go forward. The terms are relative to what the past and present of any given country is. What government policy is working to backtrack Japanese culture when it comes to gender roles? They are moving forward not backward although slowly compared to some countries which is conservative not reactionary. As for pointing it enforcing well no that all depends because it's not all like that and just portraying something isn't same as enforcing it. Enforcing would more be actually making it portrayed favourable for everyone overall in it's narrative rather than merely existing.
I enjoy anime, but also definitely criticize the sexism in it. Neither activity is exclusive to the other.
Only like 99.9% of it happens to have reactionary tropes so really there is almost no need to say "not all anime" or whatever bullshit >>9007
Culture can be reactionary, which is most anime becaus of what is said above
Really anime fans are nazbol like >"NOOOOOOOO LET ME INDULGE IN SEXIST TROPES PRODUCED BY COOMSOOMER SOCIETY WHILE ADVOCATING FOR LEFTISM"
Nothing but brainworms
The numbers prove it?albaniaAlbania
Anime can be reactionary but is not inherently so.
Moe is garbage because on it's own the cute aesthetic is just cheap lazy stylization.
Shonen being reactionary doesn't make any sense and SoL is an escapist fantasy for those with no life, which isn't reactionary in itself.
>>8991>Manime is manly anime like dbz or fist of the north star
I have never seen any one old-school or newfag use Manime in regards to stuff like DBZ. Japanimation is what we used to call it during the 80s and 90s, but Manime? You either made that up, or it's some really niche weebshit that wasn't even commonly used. >Same crap<DBZ and Fist of the North Star are the same!
How fucking high are you, what wack drugs do you do to come to such an inane conclusion?
>>9005>might be full of sexist cliches
1) MIGHT be is a keyword
2) Sexist is being very generous, given that stupid jap gags and humor isn't really sexist at all, and isn't reactionary
3) Sexism =/= reactionary - reactionaries can be sexist or non sexist and sexism can be reactionary or non-reactionary, so your argument is retarded
>>9010>NOOOOOOOO LET ME INDULGE IN SEXIST TROPES PRODUCED BY COOMSOOMER SOCIETY WHILE ADVOCATING FOR LEFTISM
You're one of those faggots who got assmad about Shield-Hero and Goblin Slayer, aren't you?
I'll take fucking Nazbols over awful twits like you. SoL and Shonen are by far not flawless genres, but claiming them as reactionary for your dumbass reasoning is fucking retarded. Hell there are plenty of awful shit and dumb tropes in anime but they aren't reactionary or need to be reactionary to be criticized
> 99.9% of it happens to have reactionary tropes <not all
Yep, found the schizo liberal, go back to reddit you brainrotted pseud.
>>9013> You either made that up, or it's some really niche weebshit that wasn't even commonly used.
It's used online to describe shit like HnK or even JoJo by people who can't shut up about their hatred for moeshit (not that I particularly dislike moe shit) and how "manly" they are for consuming "manly" violent anime.
Look up "manime anime" and you'll see that's been in use for quite a few years.
nice, I love google videos
Brainlets will say it is because of the eyes
the relaity is that "moe" is much more abstract than that. It's a feeling you get from a character you find particularly endearing, so artstyle can help but it's not necessary.
>>9018>It's used online to describe shit like HnK or even JoJo by people who can't shut up about their hatred for moeshit
I have lurked/posted on /a/ since before Asuka-Rei was unironic, and I have never seen that termin used, even back during the DBZ/DBS fandom's raid of the Naruto general threads and the more recent DBS threads attack on moeshit (pic related). >or consuming "manly" violent anime.
I mean manly anime exists but that's a shit argument, and besides, I liked North Star for reasons other than "muh violence" which is one of the most ridiculous summaries of that show and the movie.
I personally dislike moe-shit (stuff like K-On irritates the crap out of me) but at the same time, unless it's really getting in my way or just comes up in conversation, I really don't give a damn. >>9019>KYM
No wonder I haven't heard of this crap - it's literal reddit/twitter shit, that or it's some really dedicated trolls. >>9020>LotGH>Moeshit
I know this is a parody but honestly it just feels really salty. >>9021>Artistic, beautiful and not generic cutesy garbage
Not Moe. If we're going by a technical definition given by >>9024
while possibly applicable really doesn't work. Moe tends to be cutesy generic shit in the way a puppy makes you go "awww" but while a puppy or a MOMENT in an anime being like that is fine, when the entire anime is just that kind of imagery spammed nonstop with character designs and gags, it just gets irritating and dull.
>>9027>I have lurked/posted on /a/ since before Asuka-Rei was unironic, and I have never seen that termin used, even back during the DBZ/DBS fandom's raid of the Naruto general threads and the more recent DBS threads attack on moeshit (pic related). >No wonder I haven't heard of this crap - it's literal reddit/twitter shit,
Yeah, I think it's mostly a normie anime fan thing.>>LotGH>>Moeshit>I know this is a parody but honestly it just feels really salty.
I think they just replaced what's usually praised as "manly, mature, not moeshit" anime with really girly-looking anime to shit on manime faggots, not the series themselves.
>>9027>If we're going by a technical definition given by >>9024 while possibly applicable really doesn't work. Moe tends to be cutesy generic shit
Yeah, that's what I meant when I said artstyle can help, but didn't elaborate on it.
Anything can be moe, especially if you have a soft spot for it, but "moe" as a "genre" is anime that tries hard to go for that moe effect on the viewer resulting in obnoxiously cutesy and infantilized characters, often in a comedy/SoL story.
That is what I meant.
So we both agree that Metropolis is not "moe" in that sense just because it has child characters with big eyes.
That's not what reactionary means. A culture can't be reactionary unless it is a reaction to change in culture. You're just spouting fourth wave feminist rhetoric.
>>9031>So we both agree that Metropolis is not "moe" in that sense just because it has child characters with big eyes.
Yes. >>9032>Fourth wave<TFW third wave barely ended and we're having a 4th one
this exemplifies the accelerationism caused by internet - wherein the people with the most ridiculous and asinine viewpoints and ideologies can push their insane garbage freely to everyone and influence the ignorant.
I don't even know how third wave and fourth wave are supposed to be different since it's a blur.
It's not a no true Scotsman argument. Reactionary, traditional, and conservative all mean different things. They just often overlap but not always. Also progressive doesn't mean a specific narrow thing. In the past progressives were all for eugenics for example because they thought that was totally progressive to breed people into being healthier and fitter and stronger and smarter.
Get off that high-horse you're on >N-no towoo scotsmen!
Not a fucking argument>anime is predatory on the lizard brain
The heck is this run-on sentence mean? That it appeals to basic pleasures? Yeah no shit Sherlock, not everything has to be Mozart for someone to enjoy it and have fun. >banking over testosterone filled crap
Because it doesn't actually harm anyone unless they're the 1% of retards who take their autism into real life. >or tits and ass
Tit's n' ass are fanservice, for the enjoyment of males, if you don't like that, don't watch it. And don't claim that it's defended, when weebs call out pointless fanservice for being shit constantly - Mari Makinami is a great example of "tits and ass" that people disliked because it was a shitty insert for fanservice and bad plot shoe-ins. >progressives try to get over
"Progressives" my foot. More like literal limp-wrist fags. It's not progressive to find sexism in harmless gags and humor or purposeful extreme machoism. It isn't realistic, nor meant to be because it's specifically a massive exaggeration for the sake of humor and enjoyment. Nobody thinks Dragon Ball Z is a complex intelligent show, or that the tits on a hot anime grill have deeper meaning. >>9045
Technically they aren't, but because 3rd have has lost the steam it got during the 2010s, they're trying to regrasp the popularity by rebranding.
If you bump without contributing anything to a thread/conversation you're necroing. Add something worth a damn.
This is not a forum
Moeshit just reinforces traditional gender norms.
It's just men wanting their girls to be hyperfeminine, trad, subservient, meek etc
You men can't justify this shit. Just embrace your misogyny or fuck off.
I think we should talk about whether the problematic content in question is actually problematic or not. Problematic content in art is not bad in itself. There should be enough freedom of expression to allow the exploration of problematic aspects of life and human condition. But when it comes to moeshit and just in general infantilization of females in otaku media, they seem to indicate something wrong with the otaku audience. I mean rape is okay but if most works seem to have rape in a glorified way you'll find it strange, right? Just replace rape with moeblobs here. Otaku are deeply misogynistic and sexist incels, and that's basically why females aren't properly portrayed in otaku stuff. But they won't accept this.
To be fair many depressed men watch moeshit because it "heals" them.>>9165
And they are like this because they are depressed and alienated, and they can't interact with real people, especially women, in a fulfilling way.
>>9156>not a forum
…this is a chan… literally an anonymous forum… you reddit spacing retard.
>>9159>Moeshit just reinforces traditional gender norms
Fucking how lol? I don't look at a girl and say "ooh yeah she got that cutesy look", because that's the kind of emotion you get from a dog or a small child.
Also>implying traditional gender norms are automatically bad when the majority of actual gender norms arose as a part of natural biological differences between men and women on a physical and psychological level. <implying men don't like tomboys or that anime tomboys can't be moe
Women's rights is about women being women and not being socially infringed for being so, not women being men with boobs and behaving just like men
>hyperfeminine, trad, subservient, meek <Moe <implying meek and subservient were"gender norms" in the past 5 decades
Back to twitter newfag>You men>muh misogyny!!!
Just because guys don't call you pretty or have preferences doesn't mean they're sexist, seethe harder.
>>9165>Otaku are deeply misogynistic and sexist incels
Just a note but I'm >>9171
and I AGREE with this, a lot of Otaku since the 90s are generally incel Hikki-Neets who hate women because they hate themselves but don't want to admit it. What I don't think is that anime is really to blame - moeshit (especially as SoL) is widely spread because modern society encourages social alienation producing a large body of receptive people for this market.
Moe is boring shit most of the time and usually mediocre when it isn't. While usually moe has stupid gags and crap, it's not really mysogynistic, because the portrayal is so distant from reality that it's hard to actually apply it to real people in real life, which is why people who aren't Otaku can watch a moeblob anime, have fun and move on. Otaku however get fixated on these escapist and 'daring' fantasies of theirs (like rape) and in doing so dehumanize the characters. Being female is not the point but appear as a majority because most of the audience is male and the majority of people in general are straight. This is not really anime being sexist and abusive, (though hentai supplements this), but a projection of their insecurities and feelings. Something I learned from dogs is that a fixated dog - one intently watching something with every possible sense and being mostly silent - is a dangerous dog, because they can become aggressive the moment they feel themselves or something/one they care for is threatened. The same thing exists with people, and the Otaku fixation with shit like waifus is an example of this, thus the retarded waifu-wars you get like Rei vs Asuka. They don't really care about it being female but about being connected to them (usually subservience to the Otaku) because they subconsciously crave power over people including sexually.
Rei vs Asuka is actually a telling example because it was originally ironically done by the fandom because NGE was mocking and pointing out how fucked up and dehumanizing waifu-fagging is, but became unironic as Otaku's missed the point or ignored it for their libidos and desperation.
I mean just interact with any western weeb, and ask what do they mean when they say shit like "3dpd>2d". They'll come up with profoundly misogynistic shit with a straight face. I don't think Japanese otaku are any better. There needs to be something in moe girls that satisfy this misogynistic itch for them and seething crypto rightoids like >>9171
are just missing this point.
The worst thing is that moe girls are everywhere in anime/manga/LN now, and not just confined to cgdct or harem romcom. This is what annoys me.
>>9205>missing the point
I don't see how when, at best, the post is a subjective view of "it being sexist" and at worst mislabels the issue. You're literally repeating what I said about weebs/otaku being incels and that moe-anime is their get-away for it, I explained that it has little to do with anime girls - that's just an outlet - Moe doesn't promote sexism or the kind of sick shit Otaku get into. If anything they're flat idyllic relationships between a generic Anon stand-in and a cute girl. Otaku are possessive about moe but anime is mostly just generic nice, bland relationships. The only "moe blob" content that does promote such stuff is hentai, which are works of other Otaku putting their fantasies onto paper and making money on the market from it, because they don't care for anything but self-gratification. >something in moe-girls
Besides the moe aspect? Not really, I explained already - they're isolated self-hating people who don't want to admit to their own self-hatred and project
it onto things they lack - good family relations, a pretty girlfriend, respect
from others and most importantly social power
/popularity, which is why they fantasize about being in control of these moe-blobs characters - there is no verisimilitude in them controlling complex characters. There is nothing "hyperfeminine" or traditional about this except in the deluded minds of liberals and the otaku themselves.
>crypto rightoid<muh /pol/!!!<U-ur seething not me!
Can you "no u" any harder? Or are you purposely playing the fool with "those scummy men" living rent free in your head?
Pointing out that some gender roles are not figments of "le misogynists" imaginations but based on dialectical materialism and understanding of social progression is not "rightoid".
The idea of "meek subservient women" hasn't been a norm for over half a century, and the first-world whining of entitled, middle-class, rainbow capitalist, radical liberals is not evidence to the contrary.
The idea that women's rights is them being free to choose and live lives equal to others not being the same as women being forced to into male roles because that's "feminist" or some tripe is also not rightoid. Women in the 60s got equal pay why? Because porky found it better to alienate the family unit, by forcing both parents to labor full time in order to support themselves, as opposed to previous times when only a single parent could support everyone, porky will never give rights or something of benefit for free. A woman being feminine doesn't make her lose her agency as a human being,.
This is leftypol.org, we're not here to cater to liberal opinions or mince words, we're here to make material analyses and be objective and reject porky pseudo-science and liberal manipulations. Calling Moe "misogynist" is nothing more than liberal shrieking that ignores the actual problem.
FR tho, LN's have gone from mediocre to downright awful
Akchually they say 2d>3dpd, since they "prefer" anime girls over real ones (because they're taking a "you can't fire me, I quit" approach to their inability to get relationships). It's a massive cope, because a fictional character can't really tell them to fuck off too (never mind that half their waifu's would probably dislike them too).
I disagree with you portraying this issue as just otakus coincidentally stumbling upon moe treasure that in itself is not misogynistic but nonetheless helps them cope with their misogynistic itch. What I believe is the development of moe trends has everything to do with their misogyny. This is more obvious if you play VNs too.
Like I said, ask any weeb what they mean by "2d>>>3dpd" and their misogynistic explanations explain why moe girls are the way they are. I am not against cute girls but saying moe girls are JUST cute girls is pretty reductive.
Yeah that was a weird typo. I actually meant 2d > 3dpd
>>9214>otakus coincidentally stumbling upon moe treasure
It's not coincidental, my point is that moe is merely a good sockpuppet for their desires, because their two most primary desires are things they cannot have in real life and so hate: a girl to "love" and people who they will have power/respect over, this mixes into a distorted delusion about "traditional housewife" which, frankly isn't about that at all in any healthy relationship, but they're not healthy people and so they see generic stand-in MC and cute girl and project themselves on the MC and how "lucky" he gets.
Obviously the market for anime is not idle, and has long been aware of this illness, which is why we have sexual figurines and dakimura and other garbage that caters to this obsession. It's the same thing with fujoshi, and yuri content, preying on Hikki girls and THEIR sexual and social frustrations instead. >saying moe girls are JUST cute girls is pretty reductive.
My point is that in isolation from their 'fans' that is what they are by definition. The rambling explanations of otaku is their delusional projection of their sexist views. Moe can't be misogynist in itself because it's specifically MADE to be so bland and generic that anyone can project anything onto it. It's frighteningly clever manipulation - rather than have blatant sexism they instead use a lack of it, and let the sexists project it themselves, doing all the work for them. And when people notice this and cry outrage, they can't actually point out specific sexism in the content and end up both discrediting themselves and boosting popularity, as people consume the content out of spite (this is what happened with Uzaki-chan for example).
TL;DR: Porky is clever as fuck and has learned how to safely exploit people without actually incriminating themselves, and moe is the best avenue for it.
Otaku are obsessed with virginity, and no wonder all moe girls are virgins too.
Otaku just want a girl who is subservient to them, and most relationships are one-sided in the fiction they consoom.
Otaku just want girls to unconditionally love them no matter what, and this is what they get and the result is the agency of females is diminished.
Otaku want trad stuff, and no wonder the charm of these girls is always expressed from them engaging in traditional feminity.
Otaku think women are dumb, and moe girls are infantilized as fuck. But they are only dumb in a cute way because that's what otakus want.
It's obvious how moe girls are coded with what these otaku want. You have to rip them out of all the context to show them as not problematic at all.
I am not interested in snatching away what these otaku cope with, but it's about time leftist weebs stop pretending otaku culture is some revolutionary subculture. It's just escapism for lonely broken misogynistic consoomers.
>>9223>all moe girls are virgins too
But that isn't sexist, besides it would be rather disturbing if a 16 or younger school girl would state herself a non-virgin on a show that on a conceptual level is literally for children, even if the marketers know that older people (otaku) also consume it. >most relationships are one-sided
Not necessarily disagreeing but could you clarify what you mean (preferably with an example anime). >trad stuff
Again it's a delusion, wearing dresses and stuff isn't "trad" its just normal, and women do it all the time. Otaku's position on it is the same shit as always - inceldom>moe girls are infantilized
Just like the other characters (and the people who consume the content, quite fitting). It's less sexism and more overall infantilism >You have to rip them out of all the context to show them as not problematic
The context of what specifically tho? In the context of their own show, they usually are not distinctly worse than other characters in the show, it's very generic and as I stated, all of them are infantile and flat characters 90% of the time, the boys as much as the girls, side characters and main characters, it's just soggy unsweetened cornflakes. The problematic aspect is how it promotes a general lack of culture - there is nothing to glean from these SoL moeshits - it promotes blandness in bright colors an escapist fantasies to keep workers from wanting to revolt by distracting them with cute shit. I don't really see it, in itself as misogynistic because without the audience it wouldn't be much of anything really, because they have no real opinions or statements within these shows besides "consume more". >leftist weebs stop pretending otaku culture is some revolutionary subculture
I wholly agree, Otaku was only leftist back in the time of Miyazaki and Anno, the 80s or so, and even then, they lamented the lifestyle as being basically shite (see the Miyazaki thread)
If the series a person partakes in are overwhelmingly targeted to males, then yes perhaps most of those have higher levels of reactionary elements, but there is also much anime besides those which air at late night and that are accessible to a broader audience. Of course even those can have reactionary elements in them also, and that has to be expected for most culture under the current capitalist system, even more so in Japan. The base does ultimately take predominance over the superstructure, after all.
However, it's unfair to write off "anime culture" as a totally reactionary one, because the presence of regressive things in works that are of this medium does not preclude the possibillity of productions that accelerate in a progressive direction. For example, a good number of older anime even today bring excellent themes which are antiwar and antiimperialist, and they often put the progressively disguised but nonetheless imperialist movie productions of the Anglo nations to shame. And, to provide another instance, even while supposedly circumscribed by reactionary conceptions of gender roles, plenty of shoujo manga find ways to give resistance against the aforementioned expected roles.
THe "Otaku culture" today does have one serious drawback that could limit its usefulness in its current form to the Left, and that is its hyperconsumeristic nature. In light of the radical leftist histories of figures in the industry and the statements from previous paragraph that means that any mainstream manifestation of progressive themes risk recuperation under the current capitalist system. But that's again not particular exactly to only anime and otaku shit, although there admittedly aren't many other subcultures as consumption obsessed as this one.And it can't be denied that anime gets good attention; just take the Chinese Marx anime, or the various adaptations of Marx's Capital to visual formats.
It's an image board based in bbs you dumb ape
Look at the collaborations of the USSR and Japanimation they made a few anime together and several more were approved for sale in the USSR. Basically stuff from the 80s was pretty approved by leftists.
>culture under x economic system reinforces x economic system
Damn say it ain't so bros
Otaku as hyperconsumers wouldn't exist, but they would exist as fanatic fans, that's for sure. Anime wouldn't have pantyshots and all that jazz, but eroticism and the subversive female power are deeply ingrained in Japanese culture, so I guess we'd still have some titties. Who said that eroticism (not pornography) and socialism aren't compatible?
>>9447>but could even "fan culture" continue to exist?
I'm not sure about this, but for example the USSR had a large community of LOTR fans who wrote what we'd fanfictions and apocryphal sequels, so I guess otaku would still exists under socialism but they probably wouldn't be as fanatical and obsessed like certain current otaku.
In the USSR we still had 'fandoms' they just didn't have internet on which to organize, Высоцкий and many other musicians, actors and cultural figures (including fictional ones such as those of the Three Musketeers) were what people liked.
Under socialism fandoms will still exist but be more healthy in their attitudes.
>>9447 samefag addendum>>9447
One has to wonder if the leftist sympathetic people in the animation industry had poured their energies into it because of the major setback of the Left in Japan and the general retreat of leftists around the world from attempts to shape history in that period of capitalist onslaught.
Probably how it used to be but not anymore, which is why Miyazaki is known for his caustic lamentations about Otaku and anime today in general. Back in his day animators and Japan's population in general were a determined and hot-hearted bunch, while today they're just stuck in a rut, enforced by the systems legalese that makes any stepping out of line dangerous, let alone any activism (See >>5012
>nooooo how dare women be cute? They have to be obese green-haired lesbians like me!
Women like being feminine, you're just a man-hating sjw.
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