i wanna make sure i understand marx correctly because i'm kind of a working class dumbass who got brain damage playing sports as a kid:. . 1: labor creates value (AKA socially necessary labor time needed to produce a commodity). . 2: a commodity i

Posting mode: Reply [Return]
Name
Options
Subject	Spoiler Image
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password	(For file deletion.)

File: 1658782322337.png (24.05 KB, 330x383, ClipboardImage.png)

Anonymous 2022-07-25 (Mon) 20:52:02 No.11307

i wanna make sure i understand marx correctly because i'm kind of a working class dumbass who got brain damage playing sports as a kid:

1: labor creates value (AKA socially necessary labor time needed to produce a commodity)

2: a commodity is an item with a use value and exchange value

3: use values can be found in nature, but require labor to harvest. i.e. a fruit has use value (food) but in order for someone to eat it someone must find it, pick it, wash it, prepare it, present it, which is all useful labor that goes into determining the fruit's exchange value.

4: it takes a certain amount of time to find, pick, wash, and prepare a fruit. The average amount of time it takes to do this is the socially necessary labor time, which is the value of the fruit.

5: exchange values are not prices, but price is the realization of exchange value, with many other factors affecting it

6: Machines reduce the amount of socially necessary labor time needed to produce a commodity, thus lowering the exchange value of the commodity

7: Machines represent crystallized labor. The labor needed to produce a labor-saving machine is the value of the machine.

8: Marx traces all value back to labor because labor creates all value. Everything that doesn't seem like it's related to labor is still related to labor, albeit in a way that has been abstracted so that the labor is hidden away.

Anonymous 2022-07-25 (Mon) 21:01:23 No.11308

>>11307
>use values can be found in nature, but require labor to harvest
Labor can also create use values. The use value of a machine doesn't exist until it's assembled by labor, for instance. Also in the fruit example, the use value of the fruit being ready to eat is different from the use value of the fruit hanging in the tree. The reason for doing labor is the transformation or creation of use values. Exchange value essentially represents the cost of doing that, expressed in a general sense through a common unit of measurement, based on the common factor in production: labor, specifically abstract labor as in the general function of labor.
>exchange values are not prices, but price is the realization of exchange value, with many other factors affecting it
True of individual prices, but the average price of something will tend toward the underlying exchange value (SNLT).

Alright summary overall.

Anonymous 2022-07-25 (Mon) 21:56:06 No.11312

Marx traces it back to labour because he views commodity exchange as the means of coordinating the social division of labour.

Anonymous 2022-07-25 (Mon) 22:58:08 No.11314

>>11312
Right. And under socialism the division of labor would be coordinated by the needs of the working class, and planned by the revolutionary socialist state.

Anonymous 2022-07-25 (Mon) 23:11:49 No.11315

File: 1658790709217.png (453.66 KB, 1500x1800, 15skf5i4p3d91.png)

Basically the premise, from my understanding, is that in human relations of value there are two expressions of value: Use value and Exchange value. When two people exchange a commodity the commodities must be of equivalent value to preform an exchange. So, knowing that, why then is the capitalist able to sell the commodities you trade your labor for for more than you are paid in a wage? It's because the labor time you imbed in the commodities you produce are equivalent to the value of the finished product.
That product is sold for the full value of the commodity itself while you are returned a fraction of the equivalence in value and the capitalist pockets the different and that's how exploitation works under capitalism because the capitalist is profiting off your time and labor that you cannot ever get back yet he makes money to live off of himself of sed time and labor you spent.

In a round about way he steals your life essence from you in the form of time.

Anonymous 2022-07-27 (Wed) 10:15:52 No.11329

>>11315
Just to nitpick a bit. The two commodities need to be of equivalent value within the context of that society and relations in that society. For example some societies had easy access to oranges and there was very little work needed to get those oranges. So the equivalent value of a crate of oranges might only be a jar.

And in some societies getting oranges might meant hard and complicated labor and labor process so the equivalent value of 4 jars might just be 1 single orange.

Anonymous 2022-07-27 (Wed) 11:00:11 No.11330

>>11307
You can't talk about the equivalence of use-value = exchange-value without talking about fetishism. To say that tailoring = weaving, is by all accounts insane.

Anonymous 2022-07-27 (Wed) 11:00:57 No.11331

>>11330
But it is (through the roundabout introduction of exchange-value) what we do as a society.

Anonymous 2022-08-04 (Thu) 15:48:43 No.11375

>>11307
1. value is a social relationship and labor makes the objects that are exchanged & valued in that relationship
2. sure you can describe it that way but you need to understand that the commodity *is* both an use and exchange value, not that it has them as properties
3. yes use values can be found in nature, I think marx uses the example of air. the point is that it's incidental that the commodity is useful for people
4. sure to make any commodity ready for sale it takes time but this is obvious
5. yes
6. yes but they don't do that directly
7. they don't represent crystallized labor they are it because those machines were created by laborers
8. sure this is obvious because if nobody worked then nothing would be created and there wouldn't be any exchange or value to talk about

Anonymous 2022-08-04 (Thu) 18:50:27 No.11376

>>11307
Looks basically correct. Nitpick:
>4: it takes a certain amount of time to find, pick, wash, and prepare a fruit. The average amount of time it takes to do this is the socially necessary labor time, which is the value of the fruit.
Caveat is that the demand is there. Producing something with technical efficiency at a too high quantity still wastes labor.

Unique IPs: 9