[ overboard / cytube] [ leftypol / b / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music ] [ meta ] [ GET / ref]

/edu/ - Education

Learn, learn, and learn!
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)


File: 1608528005903.jpg (181.32 KB, 646x900, Kautsky Portrait - 1906ish.jpg)

 No.691

Post works which you think should be translated into English here.

I'll start: I'm shocked that Karl Kautsky's history of the French Revolution (Die Klassengegensätze von 1789) has never been translated into English. Lenin, Trotsky, and other Bolshevik theorists all had an extensive knowledge of the French Revolution, and Kautsky, the "Pope of Marxism" would presumably have had an immense influence. This work was approved by Engels himself, and may have been foundational in establishing the Marxist theory of bourgeois revolution, yet it has never been translated into English.
>>

 No.692

now hold on, we have French speakers here and I'm one of them. why don't we have a board translation project? it can win some name recognition outside of sheltered internet circles, and it would be a welcome to the written body of Marxist theory.
>>

 No.693

>>692
I posted this without knowing whether there is a French version, lol. is it only in German? I'm looking for it.
>>

 No.695

>>693
okay afaik it is only in German so I can't help, but we do have German speakers here anyhow.
>>

 No.696

>>692
Actually I think there may be a French version: is this it? https://www.marxists.org/francais/kautsky/works/1889/00/antagonismes-table.htm
>>

 No.698

The complete works of Bakunin. It is a scandal that the works of such a key figure is still unavailable in their whole. In English speaking circles he seems to be that guy that everyone has an opinion of, but nobody has actually read.
>>

 No.708

File: 1608528007868.jpg (42.63 KB, 474x355, luhman.jpg)

>>691
I would really like a better translation of The Philosophy of Redemption bu Phillip Mainlaander. There's a bunch of stuff by Niklas Luhmann that I would like to see translated.
>>

 No.711

>>696
well assuming that "antagonismes de classe" means the same thing as "Klassengegensätze", and I am 99% sure that it does. so yes, I can actually translate this work, and all the free time I have to do it in quarantine will surely be helpful.
>>

 No.714

>>711
Brilliant! I think you should start by translating the preface or introduction. Once that's done, we can post it in a thread on /leftypol/ calling for other frenchanons to help finish the other chapters, what do you think? All the chapters are short enough you could conceivably translate one in a day of volunteer work.

I'm a total languagelet, but for my part, I can format the finished translation into HTML and eBook formats for upload to marxists.org.
>>

 No.715

>>714
I'll have a draft ready within 12 hours, in that case.
>>

 No.716

>>714
>>715
Fuckin lit. Good job anons!
>>

 No.728

the draft is complete but will not be here for a few hours due to computer fuckery and other obligations.
>>

 No.731

File: 1608528010559-0.pdf (54.94 KB, Kautsky France Preface Com….pdf)

File: 1608528010559-1.jpg (311.85 KB, 900x1254, valentines-day-card-guillo….jpg)

>>729
Great! I've attached a PDF with some of my comments on your draft; I don't know any French so it's just on how the English reads. The biggest thing I think we need to clarify is the meaning of the terms "catastrophe" and "social tragedy", specifically how much of a negative connotation they carry in the original French (or German, if we can get the right people on board.)

It's night time in Europe right now. I think I'll post your draft and the call for more volunteers to Leftypol before I go to bed, which is around 9:00 AM in France.
>>

 No.732

>>729
Well done! You are a good poster Akko.

If I start a thread in /edu/ on scientific socialism and dialectics with the aim of pinpointing contingencies between anti-duhring to "On Contradiction", "The ABC of Materialist Dialectics", and "Dialectical and Historical Materialism" will you give your thoughts? I want to put Trotsky to sleep.
>>

 No.736

>>731
I have put the draft in https://pastebin.com/inDaVRWx because the original link was temporary. I will be reading over your pdf and making edits tonight. thank you very much for starting this thread and bringing this text to my attention, this is pretty fun shit!
>>732
>You are a good poster Akko.
I am very flattered :) and I will contribute to your thread what I can. I am familiar with On Contradiction and somewhat with D&HM, but not with the ABC book.
>>

 No.753

>>736
Really cool stuff Comrade Akko.
If you like, put up a paypal link or something and I'll chuck you some dollars for yah trouble.

Times and hard and I really appreciate this kinda thing
>>

 No.798

Why the fuck haven't Kracauer's newspaper articles been translated yet
>>

 No.799

File: 1608528018166.png (870.5 KB, 1920x1080, Screenshot 2016-06-24 16.2….png)

>>753
okay you're honestly a saint and I love you. I'll see if I can publish the edited draft of the preface and get started on chap. 1 tonight, and as for the paypal thing, I will get that done soon as well.
>>

 No.800

>>753
you don't by any chance happen to have a chequing account with Interac e-transfer, do you? if so, all I would need to give you is an email address.
>>

 No.801

>>731
https://www.marxists.org/deutsch/archiv/kautsky/1908/frev/00-vorwort.html
In the original German version of this preface, I found that the word "Katastrophe" was used not once but THREE times in the last paragraph, whereas the French used "drame", "catastrophe", and "tragédie sociale". Kautsky is a bit of a hyperbolist, or else he really did fear the ghost of Robespierre that much. I think the French translation comes across more smoothly so I will keep their choice of words. otherwise, I made your suggested changes. I also do not know how better to translate the phrase:
>die Revolte der „Jungen“ in Deutschland
>la révolte des « jeunes » en Allemagne
other than with
>the revolt of the "youngs" in Germany
for the simple reason that I don't know what event this references. I could assume it means "youth" but it may very well not. in What Is To Be Done, there is something similar:
>In the beginning of 1897, just prior to their banishment, A. A. Vaneyev and several of his comrades attended a private meeting at which “old” and “young” members of the League of Struggle for the Emancipation of the Working Class gathered.
"old" and "young" in quote marks. I can only assume it is best left alone. anyhow, here is the draft as it currently stands. https://pastebin.com/PeqSSVuN
>>

 No.809

>>801
Great work, Akko. Now that we have a good intro to show off, I want to advertise it on /leftypol/ to recruit some more volunteers. Unless you'd prefer to translate the whole book yourself, of course. The thread would be titled "Translators Wanted!" in various languages and there'd be a list where anons could sign up to translate individual chapters.

The meaning of the term "youngs" is still confusing. At first I thought it referred to the revisionist current, based on Salvadori's Kautsky biography:
>The revisionists themselves were not afraid of being considered ideologically "deviant". They regarded themselves as the "young blood" in a party dominated by a formal orthodoxy
Then I realized that the context for the "revolt of the 'youngs'" was 1889, before the revisionists were a real force, and that the Danish socialist Nieuwenhuis whom Kautsky mentioned apparently leaned more towards anarchism than reformism. We'll need more historical context to figure this out.

One idea I had was to contact an academic or other Kautsky expert with a list of key questions once the complete draft of the translation is finished. The chief expert I found (haven't contacted yet) is Ben Lewis, who speaks fluent German and has translated Kautsky's works in the past, including some short volunteer articles to marxists.org.
>>

 No.819

File: 1608528021180.pdf (839 KB, Laufenberg-Wolffheim-1920-….pdf)

>>691
One of the early texts of national bolshevism - it only exists in German afaik
>>

 No.857

If we're gonna go with Kautsky I'd pick his Forerunners of Modern Socialism
>Forerunners of Modern Socialism (German: Die Vorläufer des neueren Sozialismus) is a four volume work that documents the history of primitive communist and socialist ideas, edited by Karl Kautsky and including contributions by a number of prominent intellectuals of the Second International, including Eduard Bernstein, Paul Lafargue, C. Hugo, Franz Mehring, and Georgii Plekhanov. The first volume was published in 1895. Although only partially translated into English as of the middle of the 2010s, this German-language work is regarded as an important pioneering Marxist study of the history of the impact of early Christianity and various classical philosophical thinkers upon the modern socialist movement
>>

 No.858

>>857
>Bernstein
cringe. but yeah, that certainly seems like an interesting text!
>>

 No.873

>>691
interested in this project. do i have to prove my german skills? will other speakers be proofreading my work? not to say that i will not be doing my best effort.
>>

 No.876

>>873
No need to verify your German language skills. As of now I am the only proofreader, and all I know is English. However, once we get more than one German speaking anon on board you can hopefully verify each other's work. I recommend posting any questions you have to this thread, or the recruitment thread I made on >>>/leftypol/446322 .

If you're ready to start, pick a chapter and I will add your name to the list. I'll also update the list to indicate the language each anon is translating from.
>>

 No.877

>>876
>thread on >>>/leftypol/446322
yes, i am here from that thread.
>I'll also update the list to indicate the language each anon is translating from.
that sounds like a good idea. i have no reason to be wary of the french edition but some original clarification from the german may be valuable. lenin provided his own translations from the originals when he quoted marx, after all.
my last concern for now is that we have coordinators within languages and across languages to make sure we are being consistent - that concept X is translated the same across chapters.

with that, consider me on chapter 3 until further notice. i will start on it tonight.
>>

 No.879

File: 1608528027029.pdf (75.33 KB, chapter 2, the absolute mo….pdf)

here's chapter 2. I just posted it on the other thread too
>>

 No.893

https://pastebin.com/hp3FurRN hell yeah, introduction complete!
>>

 No.894

>>877
Hey - sorry I didn't get to you as fast as I could, but it seems another anon, "krates", has offered to translate Chapter 3 as well. If you haven't started yet, I'd recommend switching to a different chapter.
>>

 No.899

>>894
Krates, here. I will just switch to chapter 4 seeing that gordi had begun before me. It's fine with me.
>>

 No.924

Here's an update on the project right now. Most coordination is being done in the leftypol thread: >>>/leftypol/446322

Preface: Complete!
Chapter 1: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading complete (English)
Chapter 2: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading complete (English)
Chapter 3: WIP (German)
Chapter 4: WIP (French)
Chapter 5: WIP (French)
Chapter 6: Draft complete (French) - Proofreading WIP (English)
Chapter 7: Draft complete (French)
Chapter 8: Complete! (Copyrighted work, permission secured)
Chapter 9:
Chapter 10:
>>

 No.933

File: 1608528031843.jpg (170.64 KB, 784x1280, 71RK8jwIkOL.jpg)

>>691
Ever since I read Mario Tronti's "Workers and Capital" I've been looking for more English translations of Autonomist texts. I found this 1988 book called "L'Orda di Oro" (or "The Golden Horde") which to my surprise, is getting an English release for the first time this summer.

https://www.press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/G/bo50460859.html
>>

 No.959

>>819
It should probably stay that way…
>>

 No.962

Hi, I'm available for proof reading in English. I work as an editor and English teacher.
>>

 No.965

>>962
Nice see the /leftypol/ thread: >>>/leftypol/446322
>>

 No.1033

Where can I find an English translation of Eugen Duhrings "Cursus der Philosophie" (pdf too big to attach but it's on Libgen)?

This text is probably too long for /leftypol/ users to translate until we have funds to allocate, but am I seriously supposed to believe that English speakers have been studying Anti-Duhring for 80 years and in that time no one thought "Hey, maybe we should also read the book that this book is response to, since this book is clearly extremely important to understanding why some people claim Marxism is a science?"

Does everyone who get to this point in their studies of Marx just accept that they have to learn German if they want to keep up? Cuz I think that's what I'm going to have to do. I'm good at learning languages so it's not such an issue, but I tend to find that my Spanish and Arabic suffer when I try to add on new languages. If this is what it takes tho…
>>

 No.1034

>>1033
>am I seriously supposed to believe that English speakers have been studying Anti-Duhring for 80 years and in that time no one thought "Hey, maybe we should also read the book that this book is response to, since this book is clearly extremely important to understanding why some people claim Marxism is a science?"
Yes. They do the same shit with Bakunin and the utopian socialists. For them it is a question of faith, not integrity.
>>

 No.1036

>>1034
>Yes. They do the same shit with Bakunin and the utopian socialists. For them it is a question of faith, not integrity
I believe it. It doesn't even make sense though. You can't simultaneously think the the Bolsheviks where correct about every dispute in Russia and that the communist faction of the first international was correct about every dispute. Every Marxist should read Bakunin, Nechayev, Fourier, Saint-Simon etc. I'd consider myself a Marxist and a Leninist but I am constantly embarrassed by the cult of "Marx. Engels and Lenin have all the answers! Read no one else!"
>>

 No.1063

File: 1608528045631.jpg (51.66 KB, 696x471, 4th Internationals timelin….JPG)

>>1033
There isn't one. I was as surprised as you were when I looked for one back when I read Anti-Duhring - none of Duhring's works have been translated besides his anti-semetic tracts.

>Does everyone who get to this point in their studies of Marx just accept that they have to learn German if they want to keep up?

I have, primarily with the aim of studying the debates of Second International Marxism out of which the dogmas of the third and fourth internationals were proclaimed. Unlike you however, I'm profoundly terrible at learning languages, so I'm dependent on whatever the academic world has to say on the subject (quite a bit right now, actually, but to access it legally would cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and not everything makes it to libgen).

>>1036
>I am constantly embarrassed by the cult of "Marx. Engels and Lenin have all the answers! Read no one else!"
This brings to mind something I read on the IMT's website (one of the less cultish "cadre Leninist" organizations, if you can believe it): https://www.marxist.com/introduction-ted-grant-selected-works-vol-1-us-edition.htm

>“It’s all in there; in Marx, Engels, Lenin and Trotsky,” he [Ted Grant, founder and former guru of the IMT] would say. I once asked him what I should read after that, and he replied, “Well, then read Trotsky, Lenin, Engels and Marx!”


The "cadre Leninist" party model bans open debate, bans internal debate on the auspices of "permanent factionalism", and discourages its members from reading anything not printed by the party press - "revisionists", "pabloites", (ironically) "sectarians", "the academic left", etc. It's no wonder that you end up with dozens of competing "world parties", because the only way to challenge the guru *besides a rape scandal* is to break off and become one yourself.

On a different note, if we still have the energy to continue our translation project once Class Antagonisms is finished, a work by Fourier or Saint-Simon would be a good choice, since the originals are in French. Bakunin may have some French works as well, I'm not super familiar with him but I know he lived in French-speaking areas for a great deal of his life.
>>

 No.1071

>>1063
As I suspected. The IMT is the bane of my existence. I made the mistake of buying a newspaper from them and giving them my email at some event. I had a nice chat with one of their members but when I sat down to actually read the paper I was met with an article about how Ilhan Omar is an antisemite. I guess it is nice to have a sect which provides a gold standard for the worst takes on the left.

>I'm profoundly terrible at learning languages, so I'm dependent on whatever the academic world has to say on the subject (quite a bit right now, actually, but to access it legally would cost hundreds and hundreds of dollars, and not everything makes it to libgen).

I probably shouldn't make the proposal that first came to mind since it would constitute conspiracy (Aaron Swartz got railed for it) but if there's something on JSTOR that isn't on Libgen I could see about getting a pdf. After contacting the correct authorities and getting permission of course.

>The "cadre Leninist" party model bans open debate, bans internal debate on the auspices of "permanent factionalism", and discourages its members from reading anything not printed by the party press - "revisionists", "pabloites", (ironically) "sectarians", "the academic left", etc.

There are definitely sects that engage in this sort of thing. It's not what Lenin was actually advocating though. If you read "Freedom to Criticize Unity of Action" he's pretty clear that open debate and freedom of criticism is essential to a functioning party.

>It's no wonder that you end up with dozens of competing "world parties", because the only way to challenge the guru *besides a rape scandal* is to break off and become one yourself.

As someone who was slightly involved (not a member just an auxiliary) with the ISO this hits close to home.

>On a different note, if we still have the energy to continue our translation project once Class Antagonisms is finished, a work by Fourier or Saint-Simon would be a good choice, since the originals are in French. Bakunin may have some French works as well, I'm not super familiar with him but I know he lived in French-speaking areas for a great deal of his life.

This would be much appreciated. If anyone has anything in Arabic they need translated I can take a shot at it. No guarantees I will actually produce anything readable though.
>>

 No.1077

>>1071
>if there's something on JSTOR that isn't on Libgen I could see about getting a pdf. After contacting the correct authorities and getting permission of course.
Thanks for offering. https://brill.com/view/title/33937 This book is what I'm looking for: it's not on libgen, the DOI doesn't work with Sci-Hub, and the hardcover is priced at an eye-popping $168. Apparently a cheaper paperback is set to be released later this year, however.

>It's not what Lenin was actually advocating though. If you read "Freedom to Criticize Unity of Action" he's pretty clear that open debate and freedom of criticism is essential to a functioning party.

I don't think that all the blame for what became known as the "Leninist" party model lies with Lenin (hence the scare quotes), but a great deal of it was. Before 1917, in What is to be Done? and other works, Lenin's model of "democratic centralism" was the German SPD, and any deviations from the SPD party model were an unfortunate necessity when faced with the Tsarist secret police. In that sense, I largely agree with the pre-1917 "Leninist" model. Unfortunately, the concept of "democratic centralism" (the word was almost never invoked after WitbD) acquired a new meaning when the Bolsheviks included it as part of the 21 Conditions of Admission to the Comintern. The executive authority imbued in the Comintern executive committee was a means for Lenin to impose his will on the national sections, crucial "in the present epoch of acute civil war", as the original document stresses repeatedly. Alas, the western revolutions Lenin was counting on never came, and as the Bolshevik party descended into bureaucratic rule- starting at Lenin's urging with the ban on internal factions- the rest of world's communist parties were dragged down with them.

>If anyone has anything in Arabic they need translated I can take a shot at it.

I'm embarrassed to admit that I can't name a single Arab Marxist. Who are the major theorists? I'm curious to know.
>>

 No.1078

>>1077
>I'm embarrassed to admit that I can't name a single Arab Marxist. Who are the major theorists? I'm curious to know.
I literally have no idea. I only learned Arabic because I didn't want to take Spanish in high school since the teacher was a prick and I already knew what I was going to learn (spoken at home). My vocabulary is pretty limited but I know the alphabet pretty well which is really half the battle, especially since the grammar tends to be pretty friendly.

>I don't think that all the blame for what became known as the "Leninist" party model lies with Lenin (hence the scare quotes), but a great deal of it was. Before 1917, in What is to be Done? and other works, Lenin's model of "democratic centralism" was the German SPD, and any deviations from the SPD party model were an unfortunate necessity when faced with the Tsarist secret police.

I look at this and draw the opposite conclusion. The issue is not that Lenin looked to the SPD for a model and really should have taken a more coalition based or broad tent approached, but rather that his theoretical errors in doing so are a result of there being too little sectarianism in the SPD. I don't think arguing "Rosa should have done this or that" is particularly productive, but if there is one mistake I think the communist faction of SPD made it is that they did not differentiate themselves soon enough.

The "unfortunate necessities" on the other hand are in my view, strengths. I am a big proponent of Nechayevshchina.

>In that sense, I largely agree with the pre-1917 "Leninist" model. Unfortunately, the concept of "democratic centralism" (the word was almost never invoked after WitbD) acquired a new meaning when the Bolsheviks included it as part of the 21 Conditions of Admission to the Comintern.

There are certainly issues with where this went. Again I take an contrarian stance on this though. The problem is not the centralism or insistence on unity, but rather the careerism, and democratic nature of these organizations. Democracy and bureaucracy unfortunately go hand in hand.

The insistence on national self-governance–a rejection of centralism and internationalism no doubt–is really the nail in the coffin for the comintern as I see it.

>The executive authority imbued in the Comintern executive committee was a means for Lenin to impose his will on the national sections, crucial "in the present epoch of acute civil war", as the original document stresses repeatedly.

It should have been taken further! One international party with complete centralized control.

>Alas, the western revolutions Lenin was counting on never came, and as the Bolshevik party descended into bureaucratic rule- starting at Lenin's urging with the ban on internal factions- the rest of world's communist parties were dragged down with them.

I don't think we can blame the ban on internal factions for this. The comintern's insistence on class collaboration on the other hand? That has certainly stuck with us until this very day. In my circles we are still debating whether or not the DSA is really a "deformed workers party" or a mere liberal appendage. It seems pretty straightforward to me, both in terms of the reality of the situation, but also in terms of the historical conditions of Lenin's time that would have led him to his erroneous theory, but my position has always been a tiny minority in this regard.

>Apparently a cheaper paperback is set to be released later this year, however.

I shall see what I can do! I kinda doubt it is in the JSTOR archive since there don't tend to be a lot of books, but I can also check the academic library system which might have it.
>>

 No.1156

>>873
>>877
Hey Gordi, are you still working on or willing to work on translating chapter 3? It's been a while, I'm wondering if I should go ahead and open up your chapter for someone else.
>>

 No.1170

>>1033
>Does everyone who get to this point in their studies of Marx just accept that they have to learn German if they want to keep up? Cuz I think that's what I'm going to have to do

This is what people do if you want to study marx's unpublished manuscripts in the Marx-Engels-Gesamtausgabe (MEGA-2) which are mostly untranslated
>>

 No.1171

>>1036
To be fair some of the Utopian Socialists have been recently translated. though they are published by academic publishers so they aren't well known
>>

 No.1180

>>1171
Can you list those translated works?
>>

 No.1185

>>1184

I could pirate the following ebooks as they have an kindle version if anybody is interested

"The Woman Priest: A Translation of Sylvain Marechal's Novella, La femme abbe"

"The Woman Priest: A Translation of Sylvain Marechal's Novella, La femme abbe"

"The Permanent Guillotine: Writings of the Sans-Culottes"

"The Great Anger: Ultra-Revolutionary Writing in France from the Atheist Priest to the Bonnot Gang"
>>

 No.1188

>>1185
>The Great Anger
This one is available online, I got it from the Marxists archive.
>The permanent guillotine
That sounds based, would be interested in it
>>

 No.1236

Not to discourage anons from their work here, but I think messageboards are better suited than imageboards for this, because of a more responsive structure for projects and better formatting options. A forum I recommend is leftypol.org even though it's currently not very active, but that shouldn't negatively affect the integrity of this project if others share their attention to both platforms.

Unique IPs: 1

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ overboard / cytube] [ leftypol / b / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music ] [ meta ] [ GET / ref]