Capital Volume 2 /read/ing group Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:03:27 No. 7980
Hey leftypol! Would anyone be interested in joining a reading group for Capital Volume 2? Because us over at the /read/ group are gonna do that and we'd like to have it as open as possible, so we're inviting you to join.
For context, we've been running this collective of reading groups on >>/edu/5912 for around a year now, and we're finally ready to tackle the second volume of Capital, after successfully getting through the first one earlier this year.
Currently our system is to have weekly meetings over Matrix, on Sundays at 10 PM UTC. However we are willing to change that schedule depending on the availability of any new members.
Anyways, if you are interested, join our main Matrix chats:
Matrix Community (if you still use those):
https://matrix.to/#/+leftyread:matrix.org Matrix Space:
https://matrix.to/#/#leftyreadmain:matrix.org Join the Main chat for general discussion, and the /kritik/ chat for the Capital group.
Come /read/ with us!
Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:04:24 No. 7981
Oh, I should've mentioned: we plan on having our first meeting on October 17th. As said on the OP, we're flexible with time, so that's still up for debate.
Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:10:10 No. 7982
The mods will move this thread to /read/ because they want all other boards to be as deserted as possible and /leftypol/ exclusively for breadtube drama.
Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:12:50 No. 7983
Really wish I could get back with you guys, but I dropped out right after finishing Gothakritik and now I've missed out on so much.
Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:22:57 No. 7984
>>7982 There really is some serious board bloat tbh.
Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:24:53 No. 7985
is Capital Vol. 1 a prerequisite?
Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:25:56 No. 7986
>tfw I have 2 weeks to finally finish vol 1
Anonymous 2021-10-03 (Sun) 22:42:14 No. 7987
joke's on you OP I'm like 30 pages away from finishing vol 2
Anonymous 2021-10-04 (Mon) 00:00:07 No. 7988
>>7985 Unfortunately yeah, it's an extension of vol 1 and builds off the concepts discussed there.
>>7986 Do it.
Anonymous 2021-10-04 (Mon) 00:12:05 No. 7989
>>7980 How long do meetings last?
How much do you read per week?
Anonymous 2021-10-04 (Mon) 00:58:13 No. 7992
>>7983 Oh don't worry fren. Once done with Volume 2 we will be reading other things as a break between v2 and v3, so maybe join us then. Either way our main chat is open and we have plenty of theory discussion there, regardless of readings, so feel free to join that.
>>7989 >How long do meetings last? No set time. Usually around an hour and a half, maybe two hours. On one occasion we spent around 5 hours discussing the Theses on Feuerbach however, that was pretty wild. I'd guess a weekly reading of Capital would have meetings around 2 hours long.
>How much do you read per week? Depends on the reading. We recently read Lenin's State and Revolution and Left-wing Communism in one week each. For Capital v1, we took one week for each of the first three chapters, since they're fairly dense, but the later chapters are much shorter so we could do a bunch at a time.
>>7990 Thanks for the resource anon. Can't say I have any thoughts considering we haven't read Volume 2 yet, but we'll keep this in mind as we read. There are a few other blogs with similar content, but on some level it feels weird to trust that some rando with a blog could offer good secondary lit. I guess we'll see as we go. Appreciate it.
>>7991 It's in the OP. Matrix chat. Link is there.
Anonymous 2021-10-04 (Mon) 01:23:35 No. 7995
>>7992 im not going to join the reading group for personal reasons, can I read the meeting after it's done? or is it a voice event?
Anonymous 2021-10-04 (Mon) 08:54:24 No. 7997
Good to hear. Keep up the good work, it's good to see that people are reading.
Anonymous 2021-10-05 (Tue) 18:41:42 No. 7999
>>7998 No need for selfies anon.
Anonymous 2021-10-06 (Wed) 15:36:49 No. 8001
>>8000 We are willing to change the time if that means more people get to participate. We're prioritising membership here. Would 7 or 8 PM UTC make it possible for you to join, anon? We can discuss this further in the matrix chat if you want. We're flexible with time.
Anonymous 2021-10-06 (Wed) 15:44:34 No. 8002
it would be cool if we had enough people to have rotating capital readings, like staggered so there's one reading each volume. that would make it easier for newbies to jump in
Anonymous 2021-10-06 (Wed) 16:19:59 No. 8006
Is the discussion strictly historic and academic, or do you discuss things in a progressive framework? I’d be interested in looking at how fundamental Marxist ideas relate to LGBT and trans struggles today and how we can apply dialectical materialism to better understanding gender in relation to class.
Anonymous 2021-10-06 (Wed) 16:47:59 No. 8007
>>8006 I personally see no opposition between a "historic and academic" reading and a "progressive framework". You'd be very welcome to join us and contribute to a gendered/lgbt reading. But at least in my view Capital Volume II a very dry book, focused on mainly economic content with no direct political contributions, so a more open reading might be difficult. It's different from Volume I in that sense.
Anonymous 2021-10-06 (Wed) 18:50:53 No. 8008
>>8006 Why does it always come down to this?
Hint: It doesn't make sense to try to have an historical materialist take on every single issue Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 02:35:34 No. 8009
>>8006 shut the hell up baizuo
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 03:27:04 No. 8010
>>8009 You shut up, anon can care about LGBT issues that influence them if they want. LGBT people are EXTRA oppressed in non-western regions
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 03:29:58 No. 8011
>>8008 What an unintelligent and uninformed take. Historical materialism directly relates to gender and the family, out of which LGBT issues arise. Just gonna leave this here for the LGBT theorybabbies
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PFlGeTXLkVQ Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 03:31:23 No. 8012
>>8008 >It doesn't make sense to try to have an historical materialist take on every single issue what an astoundingly bad take to see on a website such as this, in a thread such as this
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 03:34:02 No. 8013
>>535481
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 04:30:28 No. 8014
>>8006 >how fundamental Marxist ideas relate to idpol ok
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 04:45:32 No. 8015
>>8014 >Unique issues faced by LGBT people, even issues evidenced by the dismissive tone and threats of genocide within this trivial thread, are "idpol" This is why us LGBT people must advocate for ourselves, because you non-LGBT people sure as fuck don't understand and don't care. You hate us.
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 05:20:11 No. 8016
>>8015 >because you non-LGBT people sure as fuck don't understand and don't care. You hate us. you feel like it
in fact we can express solidarity with you guys
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 06:52:21 No. 8018
>>536328
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 07:02:10 No. 8019
>>536363 >and they don't bring children to watch. >i want my fellow gay people to be at least as respectable as the heteros. >instead gay people are represented by absolute freaks dressing like demons and dancing naked around children and chemically castrating them with experimental hormones. >its fucked, and nobodies allowed to criticize it or they're a "homophobe"
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 07:09:28 No. 8020
>>536373 >i don't hate myself
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 07:19:56 No. 8021
>>536363 >chemically castrating them with experimental hormones
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 07:25:52 No. 8022
>>536385
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 12:11:27 No. 8023
Marxism is the materialistic "artistic" expression of a materialistic culture, created by people whose ancestors shared a chthonic and lunar spirituality, as opposed to other peoples and cultures belonging to a Solar, Heroic Tradition. It is no coincidence that certain political ideas, such as anarchism and fascism, are much more popular among people of European or Asian descent rather than Ashkenazi
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 12:18:54 No. 8024
>>8023 >Marxism is the … expression of a materialistic culture Stopped reading there.
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 13:33:11 No. 8025
>>8011 >video <Dialectical Materialism is separate from mechanical materialism which modern science is based upon. Exactly. Einstein dismissed Engels' "dialectics of nature" for a reason. It's nonsense. You can still believe in the dogma but don't call yourself a scientific socialist. Besides, the notion that you must accept matter over mind in order to be a Marxist is retarded. The essential idea that separates Marx from the rest is recognizing the development of productive forces and class struggle as the driving force of history. It might have represented a coherent continuum for Marx but you don't have to take his word for it. He wasn't a prophet. Dialectics is also a meme.
Here's the actual most correct materialist analysis that best encapsulates the ideas of Prophet Marx (pbuh) on:
>GAYS and TRANS PEOPLE Liberalism is the most developed ideological form of late capitalism. The value and freedom that has been given most importance in late capitalism is the individualist right to consume: "Everyone has the right to be themselves and consume commodities in the way they best see fit". The fundamental idea that underpins consumerism is hedonism. Sexual liberation is the expression of hedonism and consumerism in relationships. "Every human is a commodity you consume to satisfy your hedonistic desires". Gay men have way higher body counts and rates of STDs than heteros because gay liberation stems from the same ethos.
Transgenderism is a form of escapism from capitalist alienation and loneliness. It fits right into capitalist ideology:
>Wearing a dress and make up will make you a women <Consume these commodities and your sex will change. Socialism means community and duty to your people. These social ills will cease to exist in a post-capitalist society.
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 13:54:56 No. 8026
is queerism a form of capitalist degeneracy?
Anonymous 2021-10-07 (Thu) 14:05:53 No. 8027
>>8026 Not the thread for this.
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 03:38:21 No. 8028
>>8025 You don't actually believe this otherwise you'd be okay with being forcibly transitioned and just not care after. Wrong. You'd experience gender dysphoria and want to transition back to male.
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 08:28:17 No. 8029
>>8026 No and this kind of talk is poltard nonsense. The revolution is not some whitebread WASP bookclub. It will have colour and will be a threat transphobia, white racism and other symptoms of capitalism
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 08:31:54 No. 8030
>>8025 Is it that hard to recognise the revolution cannot proceed in any reasonable sense without those who have been most impacted on my reactionary politics at the forefront? Dismissing the experiences of transwomen and the reality they are treated differently, alienated even, is incompatible with a revolutionary mindset.
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 08:56:37 No. 8031
>>8030 The fact that the deplorable treatment of trans people is possible means that the system is capable of it. Fixing shit for trans people means removing an organ of oppression from capitalism. Same with black people and prison slavery. "Focusing on the most oppressed first" is fake. Focusing on the effective ways of porky domination, subjugation, control, and oppression is simply class struggle. Minority and vulnerable population struggles are manifestations of the class struggle. To not recognize this is idpol. To advocate for "minority first" is idpol. To ignore these manifestations of class struggle is myopic. "An injury to one is an injury to all".
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 11:15:21 No. 8034
>>8031 If you’re ok with people of colour playing a leading role in leftist politics and the revolution there’s not really any problem. I know plenty of POC wouldn’t be led by Europeans, myself included. As demographics shift, the final say on what revolution should look like is going to be coming from non European perspectives.
Even if I agreed with the anti idpol stance, do you plan on going to a BLM demonstration and telling them they should put aside their immediate, valid concerns and read about dialectical materialism? Nobody had to read a book to be able to join the protests for George Floyd. The hearts of people of colour are already invested in revolution. Europeans know their world is changing and are more inclined to being reactionary. This is why they express fear rather than delight when BLM topple their monuments and take over their streets.
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 11:32:14 No. 8035
>>8031 based
>>8034 cringe, imagine the bolshevik revolution where people complain that Lenin looked to much like a Tatar
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 11:49:55 No. 8036
>>8034 >do you plan on going to a BLM demonstration and telling them they should put aside their immediate, valid concerns and read about dialectical materialism? No. And this also addresses your "led by POC". Communist cadres should be above simple apparent contradictions. They should analyze and understand how appearances around them emerge. Masses can't be cadres. Masses can't understand nuanced takes. This contradiction is apparent when unions lobby for war to keep their weapons manufacturing jobs.
>The hearts of people of colour are already invested in revolution. Absolutely wrong. You must acknowledge that the working class is predominantly submerged in liberal ideology. A good example of this is the more radical elements of the working class, the so called American "democratic socialists". They are completely engaged in capitalist realism and their goals are entirely modest (eg eventually push Biden and Pelosi to consider maybe talking about Healthcare for all). These people are not for "the revolution". They are anti-capitalist in aesthetic only. Otherwise, still operating under liberal terms. Same with George Floyd protestors. Except they are not even coherently anti-capitalist. They are simply rebelling a little against the government. This is normal for citizens to do in liberal countries. The US is an exception because they are submissive hyper-individualists, culturally bootlickers, and are a militarized surveillance police state.
>Europeans know their world is changing and are more inclined to being reactionary. This is why they express fear rather than delight when BLM topple their monuments >their You have american brainworms and are thinking in liberal terms. These monuments are not "theirs" and the reason they dislike when BLM topples monuments is because of the reverence of tradition, history, and symbols. They are fighting a liberal war at the level of ideas. The statues are merely symbols in this battle. Nobody gave a shit about them but they are politicized to virtue signal in favor of black people or in favor of tradition, history and other stupid shit rightoids care about.
As a Marxist, you should see through this.
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 14:10:48 No. 8037
>>8030 This is complete nonsense. Class differences cannot be reconciled under capitalism, but trans issues certainly can. Why would you put people that can lose their revolutionary potential with a couple inconsequential reforms at the forefront? Transgenderism isn't a rebellion against the ruling class, its a rebellion against your peers. I would go as far to say that transgenderism comes from the top-down, from gender studies conducted in bourgeois academia. It fits perfectly into the western neoliberal hegemony as i outlined in
>>8025 . Revolutions comes from the masses not misfits. Besides I don't think that men on estradiol make good soldiers kek.
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 16:38:21 No. 8040
bump now that thread has been moved to /edu/
Anonymous 2021-10-08 (Fri) 19:07:50 No. 8042
>>8040 congrats you killed a thread
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