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>mfw when you realize elder lyons is the deng xiaoping of the fallout universe

>mfw again when you realize elder Maxson is the xi jinping of the fallout universe


Can you elaborate on the historical parallels anon?

I am going through my first full playthrough of fo4 ( i played the previous ones). I thought that the railroad is the best at first but now they seem more and more like clueless analytical moralist anarcho-liberals to me. I think the institute got some good ideas but i am a little bit turned off by their "extreme scientism" and academic dictatorship they smell like trotsykist. The BoS seemed bonapartist but I am now inclined to think that they at least thought critically and in a consistent manner about what should happen to the people of the wasteland and have some solid ideological basis even though the whole hereditary leadership thing is bad.

So what does anon think: which one is the vanguard option?


Railroad is obviously the best option, they actually want liberty and equality. Only a fascist or true contrarian could argue for the Institute or BoS.


The fallout universe rests on the belief that the earth isnt fucking huge and has trillions upon trillions of unused resources in literally every country on the planet and that humanity cant just develop new sanitational tech that restores the environment and continue extraction of needed goods and resources. When you realize this the fallout universe becomes extremely hard to justify especially when the east coast has access to atomic age tech and education


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>Bethesda Fallout games


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Fallout 76 can save itself by doing the following
>remove ALL bugs
>optimize the games code and graphics so it runs well
>make the game fucking free and all the DLCs
>make cosmetics the only microtransaction
>remove the battle royal season passes and events
>add more content to main quests and re adapt the old fallout 2 system of progression
>add a modable single player mode


the railroad is closer to non-marxist anarchists more than anything, they only really stand for the abolition of certain things rather than the creation of new social institutions, like anything which could reasonable reconcile the usage of synths as sleeper agents by the institute with actually living in society.

The Institute is basically the epic bacon elon musk dictatorship except they can actually create stuff reliably, which makes them more terrifying because they will regularly undermine society more generally with their dumb ideas with nobody asking for it. they kill and replace people almost for giggles it feels like sometimes and they are so up their academic asses that they hardly realize they accidentally created wholly sapient machines. They don't want to build anything concrete as much as just lazily co-opt whatever other people build on the surface and inject their techno-bauble nonsense into it behind their backs, its how the first government in the commonwealth collapsed.

the BoS/Minutemen are actually fairly similar, the BoS are just far more structured. They are both essentially paramilitaries which promise self-rule and protection to settlements in exchange for access to their resources (the BoS very specifically for food and technology, the Minutemen more generally wanting some of everything), while also recruiting from these local populations and using the pooled resources they have to develop the wasteland into proper civilization again. The BoS are arguably better at it and more prosperous than the Minutemen because they completely cleared out the Capital Wasteland which was pretty hellish comparative to basically everywhere else in the setting, but if you want a more libertine and local polity the Minutemen are the better choice.

Mind this kind of local recruitment inherently does tend to drag along the various biases of the wastelands into the organizations though - be it anti-synth, anti-ghoul, anti-super mutant, ect. bigotry. The BoS out west is hilariously far more tolerant of mutants compared to the East Coast BoS because them being an insular debate club has basically figured out they aren't as imminent a threat to the continued survival of humanity anymore, while the East Coast BoS still burns with rage from the biases of their local recruits.


>fallout 76 could be good if it was an entirely different game

The Minutemen don't advocate for a race war against all mutants/ghouls/synths/etc. So I'd say they are fairly different. Also Fallout 4 confirms that the DC Brotherhood were purged and utterly destroyed for their revisionism from the fascist party line, and actually wanting to help people.


>The Minutemen don't advocate for a race war against all mutants/ghouls/synths/etc
The Minutemen hardly have a centralized command to do so, but their individual sects within communities very well might. Part of most of fallout's lore is that very few groups really understand the difference between feral and normal ghouls, so just generalized anti-ghoul bigotry is fairly common - it is why a lot of them shacked up with the Master. Ironically the Western BoS and the followers are about the only people who care enough to make the distinction, even towards super mutants seeing as the Followers help out in Jacobstown and the Mojave BoS were content with largely peaceful super-mutant neighbors.

Likewise for Synths, any military which is going to recruit from common people is going to inherent the bigotries of those common people, and most people fairly rightfully fear synths as a weapon of the Institute. There is hardly anybody in the whole of Fallout 4 who wants to effectively correct this - the Railroad can't or won't muster the energy to change social perceptions post-Institute and the Institute actively capitalizes on that fear to get compliance from Synths. The best case scenario is probably a Minutemen/BoS victory where the threat of the Institute becomes enough of a forgotten memory that the Minutemen or BoS realize that Synths aren't an active threat to humanity without the Institute and as such its just empty bigotry rather than semi-justified fear, just like how the NCR (largely) and the BoS ended up getting over their fear of ghouls and super-mutants post the defeat of the Master.
>Also Fallout 4 confirms that the DC Brotherhood were purged and utterly destroyed for their revisionism from the fascist party line, and actually wanting to help people.
Wut? Elder Lyons died of old age and Sarah Lyons died in battle, and there was a succession of relatively unremarkable Elders until Maxon hit the stage. He ended the Super Mutant threat in a protracted campaign, further opened up recruitment to outsiders, and ended up reintegrating the BoS Outcasts from Fallout 3 through the promise that the military force and quasi-nation they were building was capable of both protecting technology and rebuilding civilization, and that a lot of the time they went pretty hand-in-hand. Fallout 4's BoS is practically if you took the best elements of the BoS proper and replaced its worst elements with elements from the Followers (willingness to unabashedly help people) and the NCR (extensive recruitment of new peoples and integration of new lands into your nation) while still being the BoS.


Okay, I have no idea where I got that from. I swear that I remember in FO4, Maxson mentioning something about how the Eastern BOS got cut off from the West and purged. But I guess I must have been wrong.

But even still, you can't just excuse genocide by saying 'well it's the prejudices of the common people', that applies to the Nazis just as well.


>Maxson mentioning something about how the Eastern BOS got cut off from the West and purged
You are probably misremembering that the current status of the Eastern BoS was that they can't get in contact with the Western BoS, likely because as of Fallout NV the NCR had attacked the Western BoS and they had been in lockdown mode since it, presumably still up until the events of Fallout 4. Thus they are cut off from aid from the Western BoS in their current campaign and also can't inform them of the threat of the Institute and their Synth sleepers.
>But even still, you can't just excuse genocide by saying 'well it's the prejudices of the common people', that applies to the Nazis just as well.
I mean the BoS never did an active genocide of ghouls or super mutants unless you count all of the super mutant armies they wiped out, and if you go by history they are usually the first to wipe away those bigotries once they realize the threat had passed (they were agnostic to ghouls/super mutants by Fallout 2 while the NCR was still fairly hostile to them thanks to the influence of vault city). They aren't morally righteous paladins but that has been the joke at their expense since the original Fallout - they try to keep a near-mythologized image of themselves as knights and defenders of the remanents of the old world while inadvertently stifling and sometimes becoming hostile to the emerging new world - but it doesn't necessarily make them "good" or "bad" by any measure, just flawed a la most of the factions in the games. Only groups like the Master and the Enclave are ever meant to be like 100% bad, even Legion in Fallout Van Buren and NV have far more of a philosophical bend and methodological justification of sorts for their power structures, especially seeing as they initially came out of Nevada which was basically just a shithole of radiation and rampant slaver-gangs with largely defenseless tribals getting killed in great numbers by them. In unifying the tribals Caesar ended up turning the tables on the slavers and ironically enslaved many of them, and freed their slaves to be Legionaries to return civilization to the wastes. They cleaned Nevada of radiation and gangs and have, through excessive brutality and an overbearing military-government, made Nevada into the safest place to be in the wasteland by pretty much everyone's admission. It's evil, but its evil for a definable (and unlike the Master or Enclave, achievable) goal.


basically you had a old geezer reformist of a dogmatist regime that wanted to adapt the system to the conditions that the old geezer and his party found in.

and through his reforms made it so that his organization/nation becomes super powerful in the long run and probably developed the regions that they were in.

Meanwhile his succesors end up criticizing the previous leaders reforms for going to far and causing problems in the organization/ nation

and then comes a reversal against the reforms that ends up with the rise of a strongman that seeks to mix the lessons of the old pre reform beliefs and the new reform beliefs to satisfy both camps.

meanwhile the home organization that the old geezer organization split from ended up in the long term collapsing decaying and falling apart.

does that remind you of something

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