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 No.17474

If your old enough to know this you’ll know world of Warcraft since it’s inception yes even before activism on merged with blizzard that world of earcraft was designed to be a casual mmo(at least casual by 90s standards if the game was released today in that state people would whine endlessly about the grind and difficulty curve) since it’s initial release and that design philosophy hasn’t changed.

I don’t know, the game isn’t satisfying to play, the loot feels easy to obtain and all the higher ranked loot aren’t limited in supply on a server making them pretty much worthless not to mention the fact that you can just straight up buy levels along with the fact that no piece of gear in the game has any form of uniqueness to other pieces these days. Not to mention that it’s possible to play through all the games content without ever once interacting with another player, it’s just


It’s all too easy and obviously was designed for a player base that doesn’t have the time to actually enjoy games…

 No.17475

File: 1652056284694.png (1.19 MB, 1200x600, ClipboardImage.png)

Yeah, Wow was always regarded as casual shit. Was kind of amused to see people longing for the original like it was some hardcore experience. I played it when it first came out and got bored before lvl 30. Pic related was the only MMO I could get into. Really fun gameplay on the PvP server. Always something going down, rivalries and treachery, etc. They don't even make PvP mmos now. it sucks.
Specifically with WoW there's a level where you need to cause a certain amount of discomfort to create space for people to band together, make friends, whatever. If everything is steamlined with just one click… it really brings out the existential awareness that you're wasting your time playing some crappy game. Like DAOC had community run wait lists to get into groups to farm mobs, stuff like that really built community.

These days, I'm the total opposite. If anything wastes my time for 10 minutes or annoys me I never touch it again. Which is why I don't really play video games anymore. Ace Combat has been cool though.

 No.17476

>>17475
Honestly I think the only way to make wow fun again is to actually bump up the difficulty curve to what it already was in the 90s so there’s actual reasons to go on 40 man raids

My suggestions are
Disabling the map, quest indicators, health and damage indicators so players think more about how they’re fighting than just endlessly mashing buttons along with encouraging exploration
Imposing hard caps on how many individual items can be dropped from mobs in every server to permanently end farming so players have a reason to do the content and also to make good loot rare again
Enabling PVP by default like the wilderness in osrs so bad players can actually get their shit kicked for being bad
And actually make the bosses and individual enemies have better ai that can run away, call for help or simply have more moves so that every fight requires actual thinking instead of having every god
Damb
Raid
Be a literal just launch projectiles at the big guy until death

And what sucks is to at some of the ideas listed were already in the base game but just taken out randomly

 No.17499

>>17476
>>17474
>90's

WoW was released in the early 2000's not the 90's.

 No.17510

>>17499
Fucken hell I’m too old for this dumbass planet
Yeesh the only time I remember playing this game seriously 10 years ago since then it’s just been the same way I treat 4chan

I come sometimes but most of the time I forget that site even exists and regularly get reminded by how disappointing it is

 No.17515

Aight, resident WoW adict here to give my two cents on the topic. I sometimes visit /vg/ threads on it and I think the post that I'll paraphrase put it best:

>It is impresive how modern WoW sucks so much ass. The games foundations and its main pillars are solid as a rock and basically the industry golden standart for MMO - the combat is the best in the market, the world design team is putting AoE2 custom map makers to shame with the amount of detail they put in, the lore, even if fucked over now, has all the potential in the world due to the games unique worldbuilding that seperates it from basic fantasy. All Blizzard has to do is furbish this prebuilt perfect house. And all they ever manage is just throw shit at the walls and buy second hand tables. Its a perfect cake with a rancid icing on top.


In short, the game has everything it needs to be great, but the systems that go on top of the basics are completely lacking in any creativity or really in any sense of direction, that seems permanently lost between trying to be a mobile game tier busy box with the worldquests, a super hardcore Esport/dickmeasureing game with Mythic+ dungeons and some sort of olympian sport with its Mythic raiding races. The systems that once made perfect sense were sensibly changed, but then iterations were made on top of iterations to the point where no one remembers what it was even supposed to be - see gearing as an example, or hell, how about talents. For last three expansions a horrific decision was made to keep rehashing the same Legion era formula for endgame that was already bad in Legion, just got carried by all the optional content that xpac had. The world feels dead to experiance with each zone feeling as a reskin with the same exact reputation systems and world quests, the lore just shat the bed worse than with WoD, the power progression is lost trying to recapture Legion artifacts and failing with each attempt, the lood feels unrewarding RNG nonsense and the playerbase has become a super toxic cesspit of dissapointed WoW fans.

>>17476
Too radical to ever happen, and most of that stuff fails acknowledging core issues. Disabling indicators will just make backseating and wiki-ing more widespread. Realistically the best we could hope is that they kill raid addons, as those have been fucking a lot with what the devs can do in terms of raid and dungeon design due to trivialization so long as you can script a good warning addon. I am cautiosly optimistic about next xpac, as they are seemingly trying to repair the absolutely rotten state of world content by adding more exploration elements.

My personal panacea that I fantasize about is that they would just rip off TBC content design.
>Bring back attunements (just make them account wide) because its fun to go through that massive requirements list that also serves as a way to take you on a tour through all the content
>Bring back unique one-off reputations like Ogrilla or Sporegar which are just there sort of chilling, and thus adding to the immersion of the world
>Kill the attempts to rip of MSQ from XIV, and instead return to adventuring and more zone-level questlines that allow us to see the world. I unironically think its many times more interesting to be a grunt who sees the different logistical issues between Zangarmarsh-Blade's Edge Horde outposts which arise from the ogre clan threat, than to be some superhero following a guided path to save da day
>Add very few pieces of crafted loot that are very expensive, but serve as bis for many tiers
>Or at the very least make it so these pieces can be upgraded (not replaced) with new tiers to bring them up to new tier bis powerlevel like the weaponsmithing weapons in TBC
>Wherever possible, kill RNG and replace it with statistically just as time consuming grinds that are deterministic. Instead of 1% mount drop from a rare, perhaps make the rare drop an item that combines into a mount if you have 20 of these items

 No.17517

>>17515
Some part of me wants to believe these ideas aren’t being implemented because it’s too hard but knowing blizzards actual size as a company and the fact that a lot of their staff have experience I can safely say those actually fun features aren’t being added in intentionally for profits otherwise they would’ve been in the game since 2011. The way activision treats world of Warcraft is like how calve treats tf2 but worse, they don’t just ignore the games state and the community but they do wow worse than tf2 and actively make the game shittier for literally no fucking reason beyond extracting whatever they can get out of that borderline dead mmo before proudfully releasing the next COD which might aswell be the McDonalds of gaming at this point

Fuckers somehow managed to fuckup mw19 months after its release and somehow downgraded even more to fucking vanguard. So fucking infuriating

 No.17545

Wow treats it’s users like actual children that are too mentally retarded to think for themselves

Do I need a path finder to go to a supermarket in walking distance. Obviously not but in wow I suddenly need a path finder for every fucking npc I talk to in a quest in every fucking quest dungeon raid whatever is available

Do I need to constantly be reminded of what the names of various items buildings and people I know about are constantly. No but in wow suddenly there’s name tags for every god damb mob, location, npc, player etc you meet or interact with cluttering your fucking screen

Do I need a magical red bar to tell me getting shot in the head is worse than just getting punched. No but in world of Warcraft suddenly there’s bars EVERYWHERE not just on mobs but NPCs aswell fucking up the ui even more.

And this just keeps going. Accessible doesn’t translate into easy but it very much translates into “the dev thinks your too fucking stupid to think for yourself” and I wish it was just wow but too many games have this habit

 No.17580

>>17474
>It’s all too easy and obviously was designed for a player base that doesn’t have the time to actually enjoy games
I don't know what there is to enjoy about running the same exact raid 10 weeks in a row hoping for a useful drop, the main challenge is getting 20-40 people to pay attention and not fuck around for a couple hours, and if you've beaten it once nothing mechanically changes from one raid to the next.
>>17476
>Disabling the map, quest indicators, health and damage indicators
People already use addons to tell them exactly what to do and where to go, players would just add them right back.
>Imposing hard caps on how many individual items can be dropped from mobs in every server
Farming for loot is annoying but this would swing power way in favor of early players, giving latecomers no reason to explore and leaving them weaker overall.
>Enabling PVP by default like the wilderness in osrs
The wilderness is that game's biggest salt mine. World PVP never works as intended and no one will ever pick a "fair" fight, they'll fight one they can win. That means ganking lowbies for fun, swooping in on a weakened player, or traveling in a group. Sheep don't want to play when there's wolves around, and wolves stop playing when there's no sheep, then wolves start killing wolves and the real crying starts.

Ultimately I think there are limits to the complexity and challenge the game can have.
>zone quests are designed to be completed by anyone so they can't expect you to use a tool specific to your class
>quests involve zero interactivity or input from the player and are exactly the same
>leveling is designed around getting players to max level as fast as possible and into the end-game rather than learning how to play or providing something interesting along the way
>the fundamental demands of capitalism require them to keep players subscribed regardless of whether they're having fun or not, so end game content is designed around making players run the same content over and over for reputation or gear or chasing some other number to watch it go up
>people are all funneled into the same end game group content and you end up grouped with max levels who don't know how to play their class or don't understand basic game mechanics
>people expect a carnival ride instead of something that actually demands anything of them, monsters can jump out but they'd better not be in any danger and it better not require them to think. developers reward this behavior because shareholders see players as customers to be satisfied

 No.17585

>>17580
>Farming for loot is annoying but this would swing power way in favor of early players, giving latecomers no reason to explore and leaving them weaker overall.
Yeah it’s actually good players can not only feel good about being good at the game but will be recognized as such by the rest of the community
>The wilderness is that game's biggest salt mine. World PVP never works as intended and no one will ever pick a "fair" fight, they'll fight one they can win. That means ganking lowbies for fun, swooping in on a weakened player, or traveling in a group. Sheep don't want to play when there's wolves around, and wolves stop playing when there's no sheep, then wolves start killing wolves and the real crying starts.
Weird considering it’s also the most popular location to be in that and duel arena along with the grand exchange. It’s like getting your shit kicked and not being told what’s fun and interacting with other people actually gives people reasons to come back for their own interests
>I don't know what there is to enjoy about running the same exact raid 10 weeks in a row hoping for a useful drop
Then go play something else fag. No one asked a fucking unmotivated pussy to join a hardcore raid providing the best loot available in game before activision thought faggots like you should and look how that fucking went

Games made for men 12 and up at that age you should have some level of self fucking thinking unless your literally disabled. Game doesn’t and shouldn’t treat you as such because that’s fucking disrespectful and makes the game less satisfying knowing your getting a participation trophy simply for logging on

 No.17588

>>17585
>Yeah it’s actually good players can not only feel good about being good at the game but will be recognized as such by the rest of the community
Getting into the game right after release doesn't mean you're a better player, but they'd be the ones holding the finite number of good drops from mobs and once they stop logging in those items are gone.
>Weird considering it’s also the most popular location to be in
For people looking for PVP? In Edgeville maybe. Everywhere else is PVErs and PKers looking for PVErs who run or tele at the first sign of trouble. The crowd looking for hardcore full loot world PVP is a tiny niche in a big market and developers know this. I'm not opposed to it in big events (like deadman mode) or dedicated servers/areas, but don't force people into it if they don't want to do it.
>No one asked a fucking unmotivated pussy to join a hardcore raid providing the best loot available
Classic raids are gear checks and the only thing making a guild hardcore is how much time they're willing to spend farming the gear, week after week. I've been through it before and the only fun I've had is fucking around with friends in voice chat between pulls, everything else inside and outside the raid is a chore. It's braindead, time-wasting filler content after you've beaten it the first time, and it's exactly the kind of thing I was talking about when I said it's designed to keep people subscribed rather than challenging them.

 No.17590

>>17588
Weird when I played wow like 10 years ago I remembered the grind still require skill since you were still easily susceptible to death at the wrong move to many times and raids organizing people into their best role for the guild than everyone just fulfilling a stat to the point where being at max level didn’t even guarantee you’d be good if you didn’t have other skills like working with other players or knowing exploits

Guess wow raids aren’t like what they used to be even if back then they were still considered easy compared to older rpgs. Either way I still stand on my belief that games designed for adults should treat players like adults whore capable of governing themselves and their own gameplay especially wow since currently it’s deviated so far away to the point where it’s not even really an rpg anymore. It’s a collection game made for zero attention span that might aswell be children that can’t handle not seeing magical lights and reward points not being shown to them every second


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