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I already posted a thread weeks ago about this shit but after fucking around in apex and f3 it dawned on me it wasn’t just how garbage the gun mechanics in bethesdas fallout games are but the movement mechanics are even worse that makes the base game completely unfun without the RPG and storytelling mechanics

>for one thing there’s barely any options to move in these dumbass games

When I say move and mention apex I’m not saying bhopping and tap strafing is needed that’s stupid considering fallouts aesthetics I mean there’s barely any ways to move at all. You can’t lean right or left while ADSing, you can’t supine aim, you can’t use a free cam to glance around you, you can’t climb over objects without using collision bugs, you can’t climb up ropes, mentioned prior in the past thread using melee attacks don’t lock you into a position meaning it’s likely most melee attacks miss due to gliding around as if your on a fucking skating ring all on top of the fact that you can’t break glass , walls(f76 is shockingly an exception to this) or shoot through shallow walls, you can’t throw grenades back at mobs you get it you can barely do anything in these games

>another thing these games provide zero incentive to do anything that represents movement

Besides new Vegas where most mutants can flat out one tap you and gang up on you bethesdas fallout games generally have the shittiest AI in existence whom are only capable of occasionally taking cover from fire or running away in rare occasions, if not they just employ a simple pathfinding script that breaks regularly and incentivises the player to just find a spot the AI can’t navigate past and because these enemies don’t disperse to fuck up your aim you can stay static in place and consistently fire with zero response from the mobs making fights even more boring
<and it’s not just the mobs
The level design has its own issues, traps are only ever found in camps most of the times and are hard to come by meaning rarely will you ever be in a position to keep on your feet and watch your surroundings to make sure you don’t get flat out one tapped by some flame trap or a mine, because most of the maps in these games is simple terrain there’s rarely any room to take cover from fire in nor are there any travel routes underground or on the surface to take advantage of to get to where you want quickly in favour of a lazily coded fast travel option limiting movement options EVEN MORE, I like the idea of having a region in fallout 4 and 76 covered in radioactive waste to make sure the player has reasons to constantly be on the move and learn to gtfo when necessary but the power armour completely counter acts this and fucks over that design.

It’s hard to move in bethesdas fallout games and it’s not fun either


I mean you're correct but we all know bethesda is a creatively bankrupt developer who built a (good-ish for 2006) engine for Oblivion that they then proceeded to barely update. They went from their table-top-brained boomer engine that used tank controls for movement and literal dice roll mechanics for combat to something at least somewhat sensible and physics based… then proceeded to barely update it over 16 years. So idk what to tell you except that expecting cool zoomer gaming mechanics like "supine aiming" (which I've personally only seen in MGS but I barely game anymore) in a game that's mostly just a glorified 3D JRPG. it's like expecting GTA 3 to let you skateboard or something


What’s funny is that some mechanics were introduced but then taken out like dual wielding in brotherhood of steel and elderscrolles, or new Vegas having tolerable gun play only for it to be take.out again. I’m not expecting a titanfall like experience with this no one is but it’s jarring knowing these mechanics about fallout were either never included or taken out really kills any fun anybody new could have


File: 1656298195890.mp4 (40.07 MB, 1920x1080, Fog crawlers are bad.mp4)

Honestly the fog crawlers are worse


tbh while new vegas's combat was terrible at least it had some sort of character or identity to it
fallout 4s attempt to make combat better and turn the game into cod really highlights the limitations of bethesdas or the studio they contracted to develop the gunplay l


There are two weird things to read about your post
The idea that bethesdas dev team tried to improve anything about fallout in fallout 4
The idea that Bethesda would use call of duty as an example of good gunplay rather than games like doom and quake that they’ve already published


Ahahaha like the combat and movement mechanics are the only things that suck about every Bethesda fallout game ever made
You forgot to mention the fact that the weapons and enemy models in games past 3 are recycled along with their animations and textures
Or the fact that over 10 years of the creation engine hasn’t lead to anyone at the studio just updating the piss poor physics or server issues with games that aren’t mmos made in the early 2000s in favour of moar graphics people aren’t blowing hundreds to get the hardware to play
Or the fact that these games are riddled with bugs like, geometry clipping through entities and mobs, pop in being visible, rag dolls either exploding or flicking constantly, etc
Toe by far the most offensive fact that these problems have never been fixed in any sequel they’ve ever made. They don’t actually improve anything, fucking gta 5 ffs was littered with Bethesda like bugs but rockstar still managed to fix those problems and do so much better in rdr2


File: 1656335051039.jpg (58.36 KB, 836x836, FVpW7pAWAAErk0S.jpg)

I love that people say that fallout 4 has good gunplay, because it really doesn't. It fails on such fundamental levels. The fact that whenever you aim through a scope the entire screen fades black for half a second is a perfect example of this. Not to mention how in fallout 4 they made the VATs system slow everything down rather than pause everything.


Or how vats was introduced in 3 because Todd even admitted fallouts gunplay was fucking shit and sometimes unplayable because bullets would clip right through the collision box of enemies(no even with bats this bug still wasn’t fixed)


I never liked VATs. If I'm playing a shooter, the last thing that I want is for the computer to aim for me.


Well that's because Fallout isn't a shooter anon.


The entire system was set up so you wouldn’t have to actually use the in game guns because they feel horrible to use


File: 1656346536004.png (187.62 KB, 500x307, vats.png)

Vats is useless ever since they took away the ability to aim for the groin.


>vats was introduced in 3


Yes it actually was originally because the base game didn’t have vats until later due to the fact that the dev team said the gunplay was shit and since l4d was releasing around the same time they had to compromise with sending the gunplay to id tech that developed the vats mechanic


File: 1656495046632.png (1.53 MB, 1696x1320, itjustworks.png)

it just works


Anyone noticed how post-morrowind bethesda games have literally absolutely nothing to say, story-wise? or theme-wise. I've thought about this a lot and I've realized it's because, quite simply, the people at bethesda, the likes of Emil Pagliarulo or whatever the fuck his name was and Todd Howard, have literally never had a single meaningful experience in their lives. You can smell the suburban middle class stench from a mile away. Literally every single theme in any modern bethesda games is nothing more but regurgitated shit taken from other popular mainstream media. Real artists don't just take everything they've got from fucking other media. They look at reality, and they try to say something about it. Art is a mirror into ourselves and our world. These people at Bethesda aren't even alive. They simply have nothing to teach us, and nothing to say.

No fucking wonder they can't write a single good story.


So Bethesda employees are NPCs?


Worse. Middle class.


Pretty much no AAA game has any kind of 'message' for the last 10 years, that's the consequence of design-by-committee and the gaming industry being full of empty suits. It's hardly unique to Bethesda


I actually disagree. It's true almost all corporate games are more product than art, but usually there's at least something very small of value in there, some writer or developer trying to put something of value in there. For example, though Far Cry 3 was, well, Far Cry 3, the overall story was actually pretty good, and told a lesson about trauma, violence, and how violence is a very bad form of therapy for trauma.


(submitted too early, continuing)
…But in modern bethesda games I just can't find it at all. There's essentially nothing of value. All the plots are completely incoherent, there's no single overarching theme or message. There's zero interest in teaching the audience anything new. It's nothing more than a hedonistic treadmill or a skinnerbox.


>The idea that bethesdas dev team tried to improve anything about fallout in fallout 4

it wasnt the bethesda team, they contracted another studio to improve it

>games like doom and quake that they’ve already published

look at the game m8 it feels more like cod than doom or quake


And mechanically it acts like that too but without any of the design towards aggressive and fast gameplay with shit like unlimited stamina, quick kills and deaths, gadgets having more uses than a literal stat change or semi realistic gun play

That Microsoft buyout and the mass resignation of professional staff at Bethesda really fucked them up


>mass resignation
Really? I thought it was just a rumor.


It wasn’t they lost like 40% of their staff most of which were at the companies for years. Just like what happened to blizzard after their buyout, all while staff at Bethesda bleeds out even more, shits not gonna last man that company needs to adapt to survive it can’t keep expecting their fans are gonna keep buying broken releases whose features are outdated


File: 1656549943387.png (264.25 KB, 634x500, lenin morrowind.png)

I actually wish that Bethesda goes bankrupt and their IP ends up becoming public domain so that the original developers of Fallout and Morrowind as well as their fanbases could finally do their settings justice. Very unlikely scenario I know, but a man can dream.


they would just become Microsoft intellectual property,public domain is some retarded 70+ years (because everybody is going to extend it) at the very least.
Pong will be in the public domain this year if not extended,but in 2042 if Philips does.
Intellectual Property is retarded.


I think personally, in a socialist society, intellectual property could (and maybe should) still exist (with caveats), but only until the original creator dies, or alternatively like 10-20 years max.


why should it exist at all? if the public thinks some other guy wrote a better sequel to a work, that one should be just as 'canon' as the official sequel if not more


why ? there is no need for it. if you publish something with your name on it,there won't be a profit incentive to steal your work.
Do you think art didn't happen or that artists weren't named before we invented copyright law ?


>if you publish something with your name on it, there won't be a profit incentive to steal your work
Why not? Of course art has always happened, but it's a lot less stifling for an artist to do what they're really good at if they know they have some protection to actually be able to effectively monetize their work. This all really depends on the specifics of which kind of a socialist society we're talking about though.

You need intellectual property so that once you make a work you can actually get money from it, instead of someone else just distributing it. It's nice to imagine a world in which all art is free, but such a world is far from reality even if we achieve a socialist economy. The closest we could get would be through state-funded art programs, such as what USSR had to my knowledge, but those are probably pretty rigid and only apply for a few fields selected by the state's department (such as movies).


>I cannot imagine an alternative therefore it is impossible


The first thing the players exposed to in 76 are a bunch of reused assets, the latest instalment of the Bethesda games btw

Literally 0 effort is put into the games


I can imagine it well, the soviet union basically had it. I just think the other route of allowing artists some temporary legal power over their creation might be ultimately more beneficial and nice for everyone.


>You need intellectual property so that once you make a work you can actually get money from it, instead of someone else just distributing it.

Artists should be paid a flat wage IMO


>you can actually get money from it, instead of someone else just distributing it
That's literally the entire publishing industry under capitalism. Kojima doesn't own Metal Gear, the people who make D&D settings don't own their work, nor do screenwriters and directors.


Of course. And? Do you really think I'm out here supporting capitalism? I'm talking about how a theoretical socialist society should do it.


Okay but that means there'll have to be state programs for that, and that means a lot of bureaucracy. The end result of this is some dope art, but also a very restricted system where only select few state sponsored forms of art will prosper while the others will wither away because there isn't a program to support them and the artists don't have enough time to do it because they can't make a living from it.


It's not socialist at all if it uses a market to trade commodities that are protected by the state as private property. A better way to handle it would be to collectivize the production of art. Artists who have secure livelihoods will produce art for the sake of doing so. They already do. Give them access to the means to produce art, and just let them do their thing.


it is not battlefield but got to ask, do you actually take care of your gun condition, do you bother using the proper ammo for the enemies you're encountering? can make a big difference. in a way also let's you appreciate the guns more when you notice better results after taking better care for your guns.


We both know fallout games made by Bethesda don’t have that level of depth unless your using mods


well that was my experience with new vegas, I've not really played fallout 3 but I imagine it would work similar, considering it's the same engine


The worst part of Bethesda fallout games isn’t the games themselves but transitioning from one game to the sequel

Once you’ve played one of these games you’ve played all of them, not a single one of ‘‘em is unique in any aspect for most of their gameplay and shitloads of assets and designs are recycled from previous games


Quads do not lie. Same shit also applies to Oblivion and Skyrim, but where Oblivion merely streamlined Morrowind's game mechanics mostly for the better, Skyrim actually ended up being dumbed down to the point that a burly Orc could be just as much of a good thief as a diminutive Wood Elf or a lithe Khajiit, or a spindly High Elf can be just as good of a barbarian as a Nord because character attributes have been thrown out of the window and replaced with direct Health-Magicka-Stamina upgrades.

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