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 No.19720

I used to think it was the opposite where old games were difficult while new games were easy to appeal to casuals but as I got older I’m beginning to see things are actually the inverse

Think of it like the tf2(valves tf2) situation, players that started off playing in its earliest days are the worst players in game or average, why? Because as time passes people on a general basis got better at tf2 and info about how to be good at it spread across the gaming community meaning someone completely new to the game today is gonna get demolished especially on casual servers where sbmm doesn’t exist and can’t protect them from pros. This same thing happened to black ops and the original modern warfares to the point where you can’t expect to have fun in them anymore without getting camped endlessly as the guys that still play it know everything about it, modern games like apex and and mw19 are far worse for this as they’re more popular and hence far more information on how to abuse their mechanics is more readily available

And it’s not just shooters but RPGs and single player games as well, platformers are more complex with more movement options than before with games like Celeste, Mario maker(especially kaizou levels) and geometry dash, old rpgs from the 90s genuinely have simpler progression and gameplay mechanics than titles like osrs, war frame and world of Warcraft where the amount of systems and shit to do is so high explaining it all to a new player would either take hours or send them off running. You just can’t expect to “hop in” to new games you haven’t tried before and expect to have fun anymore without spending sometime getting exhausted trying to get good

 No.19721

isn't that an argument in favor of the older games then?
older games would be explored more thoroughly for features that give a potential advantage, while newer games would be the opposite
obviously, popularity is a factor too, more people playing = faster discovery rate
regarding simpler game mechanics, that depends from game to game, can't say i've noticed any particular trend towards complication there

 No.19722

>>19721
Yeah it is an argument
Just not the reasons I originally thought

 No.19723

Celeste is garbage spike-deathpit level design. Could not tip to the creativity that is kaizo mario hacks.

Mainstream games have gotten more simplified. Independent games have basically gotten higher quality when applicable. So both are true. Games have gotten more simple and more complex.

Mario Maker is also garbage. Please do not compare that garbage to actual good mario level design. It is so far from the truth. You can't do anything creative in Mario Maker for instance because it has no slopes.

>You just can’t expect to “hop in” to new games you haven’t tried before and expect to have fun anymore without spending sometime getting exhausted trying to get good

I only get exhausted because I'm simultaneously working out when playing vidya.

 No.19726

>>19723
>Celeste is garbage spike-deathpit level design. Could not tip to the creativity that is kaizo mario hacks.
ah yes the game that requires precise jumps and constant abuse of its mechanics is very different and simplistic to the game that requires precise jumps and abuse of its mechanics

 No.19732

>>19720
>This same thing happened to black ops and the original modern warfares to the point where you can’t expect to have fun in them anymore without getting camped endlessly as the guys that still play it know everything about it, modern games like apex and and mw19 are far worse for this as they’re more popular and hence far more information on how to abuse their mechanics is more readily available
Like that's new. Counterstrike was like that decades ago. Take your lumps, and get gud.

 No.19733

you've just gotten older and your reaction time slower

play mordhau against zoomers to see what i mean

 No.19746

>>19726
Yes. Now hopefully you can argue in good faith like an adult next time. Nobody likes insincerity.

 No.19749

>>19746
You genuinely sound like you hate Celeste and kaizou Mario because your not good at those games not because of their design, which is funny because both those games have an assist mode you can use at any time to play at your own pace if the base difficulty is to much for you

 No.19777

>>19749
>more bad faith
Again. If you argue from bad faith. You've only got yourself to convince.

 No.19779

File: 1656764087473.jpg (172.81 KB, 1080x1458, FUf_1eFXwAIuTso.jpg)

>>19733
>play mordhau against zoomers
I do, they rage quit before the match ends leaving me and the other +150s to carry…

 No.19781

>>19779
you still play FPS at age 150? respect

 No.19805

Tested out your idea by playing the original diablo 2 and man you were right about these games being a lot easier

I mean fuck you still had RPG shit like ranged attacks being limited based on your ammo availability along with your mana generally not being that high throughout the game but for the most part the progression was simple to understand, I never felt like there was something missing and most enemies were a breeze to kill assuming I had enough items available. Yeah these games were simpler not just in difficulty but in their setup made a degree of logical sense that you didn’t have to second guess things

 No.19808

>>19805
Diablo was always meant to be an easy game for a novice to pick up and play. That was its principle selling point.

 No.19809

>>19805
The only thing that’s really
“Hardcore” about diablo 2 is the skill tree system being a fucking maze to go through, it’s even worse in wow. If diablo 2 was any more casual the skill tree would work like this
All the skills thatre a direct upgrade from another skill would just be the byproduct of inputting enough points into whatever skill you like if your levels high enough juxtaposed to the arrow based model where your options are tied to your character and you have to constantly shuffle between builds each session and constantly micromanage what’s the best way to slaughter demons

 No.20047

>>19723
Celeste is really forgiving and doesn't waste your time though, the movement control/options are also very good. You respawn nearly instantly on the same screen and can retry each screen infinite number of times.

Certain b-side and c-side screens are really annoying though. I wish the player was given an option to skip a screen after already beating a level.

But my main gripe with Celeste is that only the first level offers a lot of freedom in how you traverse it, especially after learning advanced techniques / movement combos. That level feels kinda like in metroid games where the world gets transformed simply by player acquiring new abilities. In this case everything is already available from the beginning, but those techniques get revealed to you only in certain bonus levels.

Outside of that 1st main level you're generally far more limited in how to complete a screen. You can go faster, but most of the time you'll be using roughly the same path as on your initial playthrough simply because platforms/walls are limited to bare minimum, plus those levels start relying more on elements specific to that level (bubbles, clouds, etc.) that mechanically limit you even further. This is already approaching those fan-made levels which are usually made with the single exact execution in mind.

For a single playthrough the game is great though. Most games waste your time far more than Celeste.


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