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The biggest fuckup out of all of them
<gearing the story towards the player
It’s called role playing for a reason, the world itself is the main character or at least should be in an rpg not the player, if you do that shit the world immediately feels static and uninteresting to explore in as a byproduct of fundamentally not understanding what “exploring a world you don’t know about” means

>over complicated progression systems

Yeah I said it and for a good reason, based off my experience and believe this with sincerity that the more convulted progression in an RPG is the less any of its progression components matter, this is obvious just by looking at the clusterfuck of progression in games like BDO, maple story, fallout 76 etc compared to games like diablo 2, wow classic and botw. Why do the three good games have good progression? Because their worlds are designed around them and what their traits do that’s why they impact how the player plays, you can get exceptions like Skyrim and new Vegas having these convulted systems but they work because their massive fucking worlds have enough content in them to justify their size
>no voice acting
Yeah I’m being a dick and I can understand that studios aren’t blowing dozens to hundreds of millions on voice acting the weeks worth of in game dialogue found in RPGs not just for things like quests and NPC conversations but shit like just random grunts you see on enemies but still it fucking kills the mood to see one random fully VAd cutscene followed by dozens of hours NPCs locked in place while text on a screen substitutes for actual speech, again Skyrim thankfully avoided this with almost fully voice acted NPCs
>small maps
This might seem contradictory considering how many open world maps have nothing in them but I mean with sincerity that the maps literally aren’t large enough. If you’ve played exile 3 or any other retro RPG you’ll notice the maps are far bigger than modern RPGs and the quests are also larger, this is because the lack of technical limitations can allow large maps but also saves a lot of time to create a lot of zone specific quests, structures and events that can’t be created with having maps the size of small towns, you can get away with relying solely on density like in RuneScape 2 also known as OSRS but inevitably that small ass size does catch up especially in single player RPGs

That’s about it, I don’t give a shit about modern RPGs being easy as shit or the monetization as I don’t think these games are necessarily harder or easier than the old ones nor do I think boosters and skins is any better than literally having to pay a monthly membership fee to not even own a game I like. See ya fags later


>my pure roleplaying experience can't be geared towards the player with a story
>voice acting? That's a must though, because it needs to be geared towards me


I stated I was being a sick about VA and understood why it isn’t always implemented explicitly but I stand my ground about rpgs being geared towards the player fucking sucking

Nothing can kill an experience of wanting to explore and discover a word in an rpg more than starting off and being asked to ignore all the games content in favour of fulfilling some half assed destiny, or killing god or you get the fucking point, fucking blizzards old convention videos even stated themselves that pulling that shit and they were right considering how fucking boring wow got when the stories started becoming less about hundreds of small simultaneously occurring stories that made wow genuinely feel like a world in favour of constant world ending threats trying to one up each other while the stories in all of them were always
>the chosen one
>the hero
>the next Lich king
I know that last one is pure satire but your seeing what I’m meaning man. I wanna be part of a world not the world being about me and only me


>it sucks because no voice acting


Yeah fuckoff for obvious attempted derail at least try to sound like your not trolling and coming up with an actual argument


My not trolling aside. You can't hate modern rpgs for having voice acting when it is the thing you declare a necessity.


No where in my post was that ever stated it was necessary you fucking dumbass along with the fact that I stated twice as to why i can tolerate why it’s not always implemented, don’t fucking twist what I write to fit an argument even after getting called out for it


>no voice acting
Good, fuck voice acting. Perhaps you don't understand the ultimate outcome of blowing money on things that are completely superfluous to gameplay? Investors who funded the game's development demand a return on their investment, and the more a game costs to make, the more dangerous it is to take risk. Bloated budgets are exactly the reason you see dumbed down shallow story-driven content munchers, to appeal to the lowest common denominator and get them to consume the game as fast as possible to move on to the next product. Anyone who cares about game quality should oppose voice acting.


>It’s called role playing for a reason, the world itself is the main character or at least should be in an rpg not the player, if you do that shit the world immediately feels static and uninteresting to explore in as a byproduct of fundamentally not understanding what “exploring a world you don’t know about” means

I don't know if this is what you meant, but I'm really tired of "chosen one" stories. Last RPG I played for awhile was Fallout 3 and I gave up on the main quest really early because it was so lame and un-roleplaying like I think you're saying. I'd much rathe if Bethseda made a game of the length of Fallout but it was all the separate exclusive paths instead of one stupid unchanging story with a 5th of the content being actual roleplaying "make your own character" stuff.

Oh wow! I can choose to be good or evil, but I'm going to complete the exact same story almost exactly the same way with a slightly different cut scene at the end? Wow so much roleplaying, so much freedom of choice. Lame.


No that was exactly what I meant the effects you mentioned in your experience with fallout 3 are the same with how I feel about diablo 2s story. Sure the base game is fun but and exploring it is fun but plot wise it’s the most dull shit you can get


>shit like just random grunts you see on enemies but still it fucking kills the mood


Does anywhere in that text say


It's fine for games to be story-driven. Not all games. But some. Like Barkley, Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden.
>Anyone who cares about game quality should oppose voice acting.
Fully voiced dialogue (i.e. having every line of dialogue in the game voice acted) is indeed a waste in most genres unless the game is very short or there isn't much dialogue overall. In longer games, there tends to come a point (and it comes sooner rather than later) where the player will start advancing the dialogue at their reading speed rather than waiting for the end of each voice cue, making the voice acting practically superfluous from that point on. In dialogue-heavy games, having certain key scenes or character introductions voice acted (like Baldur's Gate or Planescape: Torment) is fine, though. Not a huge resource drain + players primed to actually pay attention since it interrupts the norm of silent text crawls + actors incentivized to deliver memorable performances since they might only have a few lines to sell a character.
But that's not the only type of voice acting that appears in games. You also have, for instance, "announcers" in fighting games (THIS GAME'S WINNER IS…). I really don't see the harm in stuff like that. A guy gets paid to record a dozen or so lines and fans of your game get audio clips to meme about for all eternity.


I’m not this guy I’m OP

I repeat to you
do not derail this thread into a pointless argument over nothing


Sorry, I just wanted to say that voice acting in games (which is relevant to your OP) has a few issues to consider, which I think you understand given your other posts in the thread.
I don't really have anything to say about "modern RPGs" (assuming you mean big budget Western ones) because they just can't hold my interest for some reason. I got about 5 hours into Divinity: Original Sin II. And, about a year and a half later, I'm still 5 hours in. Apologies for intruding on your thread as someone without much to contribute. Polite sage.


>OP talks about thing
>post directly addresses thing
>stop! derail!


>can’t seem to hold my interest for some reason
Because they aren’t “role playing” games, their grind simulators, there’s no sense of exploration because
<the maps are small compared to older games
<there’s little secrets and hidden regions to discover
<most of the maps in these games are available to you at the start
<there’s little replayability within zones neither are their incentives to explore like region locked loot, quests or items
There’s no reason to use any attacks that aren’t magic making every fucking combat encounter a fucking spam simulator because
<mana is always so high that it might as well be infinite or even worse it uses a cooldown system
<getting regen items is always painfully easy
<magic attacks always end up dealing more damage or have better buffs than using other generic weapons you get from killing whatever’s the bad guy because the devs end up putting no effort into those generic weapons and how they function
The progression in these games is always painfully complex because
<the devs don’t take the time to make new players gradually learn the games mechanics overtime through a detailed tutorial or campaign cough cough swtor
<the games mechanics flat out don’t even matter for most sections again swtor
<the game has too much rng on fucking everything placed everywhere making shit even more difficult to understand than it has to be and also hard to calculate what setups the best one at a given time or what’s the best way to progress(fuck you world of Warcraft)

I think the mmo and subsequently the RPG space just wants a simple, easy to understand, game with a lot of depth to its simplistic as shit mechanics. That’s it, I know this sounds weird considering how frequently veterans whine and bitch about games being too easy but considering how long I’ve been playing old fucking games I can see why so many of those same veterans could play them as children with ease

And also the reward screens, that shit has to be deleted by force at this point the amount of pop up’s for meaningless progression is so fucking annoying


>cooldown system
After the revolution we will banish this cancer back to the depths of hell from whence it came.


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Where can I find more of this and where can I watch them fuck.


for the last part,I dunno,search on rule34 (or scroll down endlessly on twitter until you find a nsfw pic)


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>(or scroll down endlessly on twitter until you find a nsfw pic)
literally, literally two tweets down on the profile page. Fucking coomers man…


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I don't get most but some are cute


There is a real Season 1 Beavis and Butt-head quality to these.


<diablo 2, wow classic and botw
two of these aren't even RPGs

<progression is overcomplicated

wtf? the opposite is the problem, I've not played 76 but bethesda has simplified character creation and progression to crap in skyrim and f4.


That’s because the progression systems in those games actually have an obvious effect on gameplay which is why it feels like it’s clear as to what they do to aid you if they were all just raw stats you’d have to constantly be preforming endless calculations and weird builds to have any fun in them


the older fallout games also mostly made changes to stats, so maybe your wording isn't that great about this but not seeing any effects from leveling is a result of bethesda's over simplification rather than making it more complex.


Thank you!

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