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 No.20291

Fucked around schizo Elijah’s channel and saw this comment and made me fucking question the importance of gameplay vs story

I mean hell a bad story can fucking kill a game but at the same time good gameplay can make a game last for years due to its replay ability thanks a lot to its nonlinear design that encourages the player to do whatever the fuck they please to progress

What do y’all think matters more?

 No.20292

Story is just a vehicle for getting to the gameplay.

 No.20293

I can forgive a terrible story if there's great gameplay, but I'd really have to like a story to stick around for awful gameplay. That said, neither game has great gameplay, but Fallout 4 makes for a better sandbox and sandboxes have a lot of replayability. That wouldn't make it a better game unless you're only comparing how many hours you can squeeze out vs the amount of money you put in.

 No.20294

>>20291
The people that complain about bethesdas writing in 3d fallout dont actually read the original books or have played the original fallouts to know the stories problems are far older than bethesdas time of owning it
It started getting bad when the enclave got introduced and retconning and random plot twist like the enclave starting the war but no one repairing the planet after their collapse getting more and more frequent. For Bethesda to write a good fallout game they’d have to pull what obsidian did and make a story completely unrelated to the actual world that exists as fan fiction disconnected from any real events occurring which is horrible, for the love of god I have over 50 hours in new Vegas and even I struggle to understand what the hell was the point of the story especially in the caravan dlc where the white legs entire purpose to terrorize the other tribes beyond power was never established. Oh well what they said
>>20293
>>20292
Bethesda genuinely did the right thing with 4 and focus on gameplay first before the story considering even in the best case scenario sacrificing resources to the fix the already half broken story of fallout really wouldn’t have been worth it

 No.20295

What matters is what you want from a game. I for one, depending on the mood, want either a game I can chill, relax, and listen to some podcasts to while not being bothered by reading or thinking anything too much, or a game that would be like a book which I could periodically come to, spend some time reading it, analyzing, thinking about etc and have a more intelectual experiance. Hence to me both WoW and Planescape Torrment are equally amazing games. If anything, I started finding that the worst type of games for me are those that try to marry fun and dumb gameplay with an average story, say like most of what AAA insustry puts out these days, and including games like Fallout 4.

And I don't get the replay value thing. If you got to experiance an amazing story, but don't have much of a reason to replay it, does it matter? Does it make the game lesser somehow?

 No.20298

File: 1658137088032.png (865.59 KB, 657x997, deal w. it.png)

>>20295
>Does it make the game lesser somehow?
Yes actually. Games with poor replayability are inferior games. You can have the most touching, thought-provoking story ever put to paper but still be a crappy game.

 No.20300

>>20298
>Games with poor replayability are inferior games
Are they though? Does the same logic apply to rereading books or rewatching films?

 No.20301

>>20300
>Does the same logic apply to rereading books or rewatching films?
No? Why would it?

 No.20302

>>20298
15 hour game that I will think about for the rest of my life >>>>>> bloated 100 hour shitpile with nothing memorable

 No.20303

>>20302
Hey, neither is superior. I will forever cherish my childhood memories of finding fun new ways of fucking around with guards in Dishonored by tossing trip-wired bottles of whisky at them or positioning them into vulgar poses when they are knocked out while listening to WoW lore podcasts. I will also forever remember crying when at the Phasmid reveal scene in Disco Elysium. What matters is if you had a good experience.

 No.20304

>>20303
I'm not saying long/replayable = bad but it definitely doesn't = good

 No.20306

It depends entirely on what the game is going for and what people are expecting from the game itself. In Fallout's case, most people wanted a game a game with a good story and a lot of options for roleplaying which is why more people like NV than 4.

 No.20307

i find fallout 3 to be mind numbingly boring and directionless while I actually think FNV has better gameplay than what people admit. I think this is just some subtle todd howard astroturf and I say that as someone who actually sort of liked Skyrim.

 No.20309

>>20307
I find fallout 4 to be the fallout I’m most likely to play
I never felt like fo4 was missing any features and the level of accessibility makes the game feel far less tedious than new Vegas for me like having a grenade hotkey so I don’t have to constantly search through my inventory for one piece of shitty dynamite or a quick inventory key, or customizable armour components or the removal on camera zoom when ADSing on iron sights

It makes the game feel so much smoother for me meaning I can have fun with it whenever I want which is why it’s the only fallout I don’t use mods with

 No.20310

>>20309
i think that just installing the project nevada mod for fnv to make it better but without mods it's eh I can see it I guess. It all seems kind of skinner boxy to me though and I play roguelikes.

 No.20313

>>20291
Gross misunderstanding. Gameplay is story, and story is gameplay. To wit:
>Mr Proudhon does not ask himself whether the very basis of
those contradictions ought not to be subverted.

 No.20325

>>20313
What do you mean by story, exactly? In its conventional definition Tetris, Minesweeper, Dwarf Fortress, and Pong all lack proper stories, but there's an internal player narrative to take its place in the form of setting and achieving goals, whether they're determined by the game or by the player. I'd agree with you if you were using story to mean the latter, but I think OP is using story to mean plot, characters, and setting.

 No.20327

personally like stories a lot more such that my taste in video games could be reduced to mere visual novels. Disco Elysium, Cloudpunk, Vampire: The Masquerade. Sometimes I cheat(adjust stats) in the games to experience more of the story and/or fit my character to the story. However, it’s fitting that the gameplay centric games I like such as Foxhole and Planetside 2 are much more community focused and cooperation based with an element of skill. Too bad there are so many fucking reactionaries in these cooperation based games that I’ve just given up and play more single player centric games. Although with some games, there seems to be some conflict with repeatability and good gameplay bc with Minecraft, it arguably got trash gameplay and mechanics, but the trashiness and simpleness makes it fun to play for long hours alone or with friends. Longer sessions on shitty games with friends who are also interested in relaxing.

 No.20338

>>20291
le spec ops the line answered this question

 No.20365

>>20338
This. Your gameplay can be the most bog standard generic piece of shit barely workable not even fun crap but as long as it has an engaging story most will power through.

 No.20366

fallout 4 is a mediocre open world shooter and an utterly abysmal RPG.
the gunplay is admittedly an improvement over the gamebryo fallouts, but that's damning with faint praise. it's still a bethesda game, and as such it's still subpar. enemies are still bullet sponges, ai is still atrocious, and none of the guns feel good to use imo (much less the still hilariously awful melee).
the combat would be fine, even somewhat laudable in the context of the franchise if the writing wasn't so horrible. has anyone ever genuinely been invested in finding SHAUN!?!?! does anyone actually find any of the characters or factions in this game's world interesting? why do i do one quest for the brotherhood, literally just stumbling upon them for no reason, and suddenly i'm on their airship discussing plans to do something (i forgot what) with the leader of what is supposed to be an infamously suspicious techno cult? why is my character casually accepting mundane tasks from random assholes dressed up as paul revere and ted williams when he's supposed to be looking for his kidnapped son? this is the primary reason why new vegas stands head and shoulders above 3 and 4: the writing and world building provides you with the tools to craft your own motivation to do things where in 3 and 4 the plot actively discourages you from doing so. that is far more worthwhile to me than a subpar shooter with half-baked city builder mechanics and a world that doesn't interest me enough to explore and change it.

 No.20367

>>20365
the gameplay in spec ops wasn't /that/ bad, but overall yes I agree

 No.20370

>>20366
>the writing and world building provides you with the tools to craft your own motivation to do things where in 3 and 4 the plot actively discourages you from doing so.
Kek
Bro did you actually play the game? It’s still trash and I have over 50 hours on it to realize that after the first run you’ll notice how empty the game actually is, your choices only affect what slideshow you’ll see at the end and what NPCs in the goofiest fucking costumes in existence will try to kill you, factions like raiders and wastelanders are blocked off from you to join unless your using mods. The worst example of this bs was in lonesome road where after I straight up nuked both the NCR and legion nothing about the games map changed beyond adding like 2 new zones to the fucking map while seemingly everyone in the fucking game forgot they were supposed to either be dead or ghouls


Fallout 4 is mediocre but shilling any other component of the trash that is fallout games is fucking idiotic ahahahaha

 No.20374

>>20370
>It’s still trash and I have over 50 hours on it to realize that after the first run you’ll notice how empty the game actually is
hey, would you look at that. retard with poor opinions can't properly structure a sentence, or respond to the content of what he's quoting.
>your choices only affect what slideshow you’ll see at the end and what NPCs in the goofiest fucking costumes in existence will try to kill you
so, it's a bad thing when your choices have meaningful consequences for the way you are treated by the game's characters and the conclusion of the narrative? i can understand not finding those characters or the narrative engaging, but this is a braindead criticism.
>factions like raiders and wastelanders are blocked off from you to join unless your using mods.
who cares?
>The worst example of this bs was in lonesome road where after I straight up nuked both the NCR and legion nothing about the games map changed beyond adding like 2 new zones to the fucking map while seemingly everyone in the fucking game forgot they were supposed to either be dead or ghouls
i agree with you that this particular ending to one (1) dlc is incredibly underwhelming and should have been done better. i'd say the same thing about the dead money ending where you weaponize the red gas shit and nothing happens, but these are relatively minor issues that don't spoil to totality of the work.
>Fallout 4 is mediocre but shilling any other component of the trash that is fallout games is fucking idiotic ahahahaha
ok retard.

 No.20375

>>20374
<who cares
<slideshows and costumes qualify as meaningful gameplay
<nuking two fucking factions with almost 0 effects is a minor issue
<yeah sure you have several dozen hours but your opinions don’t count because uhhhhh….


Sorry man you legitimately sound as if you’ve never played new Vegas or the original fallouts and merely voiced your opinions based off Reddit posts because only Reddit defends old games as if they’re created by Jesus himself this heavily lmao

 No.20376

File: 1658323645995.png (643.98 KB, 1036x327, veg.PNG)

>>20375
><who cares
you haven't answered why i should care that i can't be a raider.
><slideshows and costumes qualify as meaningful gameplay
the meaningful gameplay is in the character interactions and the narrative which are both heavily influenced by the protagonist's actions. reducing it to just the epilogue and the costumes of the factions is, again, braindead.
><nuking two fucking factions with almost 0 effects is a minor issue
it's a minor issue because it only effects one aspect of the game that won't come up in the majority of playthroughs. i already agreed with you it was a problem, i just don't think it ruins literally everything about the game.
><yeah sure you have several dozen hours but your opinions don’t count because uhhhhh….
your opinions don't count because they are stupid.
>only Reddit defends old games as if they’re created by Jesus himself this heavily lmao
i never even said the game is perfect. i even told you i agreed that it has very real flaws. i just said that i like it and that it's better than fallout 4.
pic related, i have more than a hundred hours in this game because i find the world and story engaging enough to come back several times over. this isn't even counting the amount of time i played on console back in the day. it's fine if you don't like the game, i'm not telling you that you have to, but i do think the shit you are writing here about it is stupid.

 No.20377

>>20376
The game really should’ve been given more than a year and a half to finish or at least an update with the DLC that came for it after, a shitload of the shit you’d see in fo3 isn’t available to play with in new Vegas despite the fact that mechanically they’re really similar to the point where TTW can exist due to how many assets are reused from fallout 3.

Oh well but seriously I’m not gonna defend new Vegas in any aspect the game is legitimately unfinished and that’s proven by the fact that the same bugs in fallout 3 like the sprint button not working, constant random crashes or seeing NPCs have their rag dolls reset every time you load into a level gets frustrating quickly because it can have an effect on gameplay

 No.20378

File: 1658324072797.jpg (56.15 KB, 490x604, Goblin_combo.jpg)

I literally only play Fallout games for the mods nowadays. The questlines that the people make often blow the originals out of the water in terms of inventiveness and player agency, and the gameplay mods are an absolute must if you want a more or less solid experience, whether you are playing FNV or FO4.

 No.20379

>>20377
sure. i don't have any problem with this. like i said, the game isn't perfect. mechanically, it's a total fucking mess. i think it shines when it's telling small scale stories with compelling characters, and it can also show flashes of brilliance when dealing with larger scale events. i tend to prefer games with deeply flawed mechanics but engaging worlds and characters to mechanically mediocre games with no world or characters worth interacting with.

 No.20380

>>20378
Quest lines? The core gameplay of fallout games before 4 is utter garbage, at least 4 patched out most of the annoying bugs and god awful design decisions which shows in speed runs of the game not being completely dependent on random bugs

In fallout 3 basic controls like ADSing and springing don’t even work while bullets constantly clip through the hit box of most enemies, the jankiness is barely improved on in new Vegas but most bugs remain


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