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You know why blaming how buggy and limited a game is in terms of its technical capacity is fucking retarded?

Because a game can run on multiple engines at the same time and often most engines modern games use already are built off multiple engines. If “engine limitations” were all that mattered functioning cars couldn’t exist in new Vegas, doom 1995 wouldn’t have HD remakes with 3d models instead of sprites, daggerfall unity shouldn’t have ever been possible, titanfall as a franchise couldn’t have been as impressive as it was, every valve game in existence would cease, stalker anomaly shouldn’t have been possible either and the list of shit goes on and on. It’s always been the developers willingness to fix their own software or get the skills required to make games on a technical level more advanced than what came before
NEVER believe in the engine bs


Ok technically that isn’t wrong but there’s still a problem with your post

Your forgetting studios don’t like diminishing profits and using multiple engines brings the risk of having to share revenue with multiple companies. Using multiple engines isn’t as simple as using multiple libraries when hardcoding shit there’s a business element to things meaning if a company like BioWare wanted to integrate aspects of frostbite into something like eclipse they’d need IP rights, granted being a company of EA gives them automatic access to that without question but you have to recognize when something like those grants not being available to studios like GSC game world that made stalker


The fuck are you talking about? Games don't run off of multiple complete engines.


Dude what about nearly every valve game and it’s usage of source being built off havoc and other shit? Even if the game isn’t running off several complete engines it’s not like a developer can’t use multiple libraries and modules from other engines and directly import them into the game


You are grossly misinformed. Educate yourself before making a thread.

Havoc is compiled as an engine MODULE.


Fine but I still stand on the belief that there’s objectively far more resources developers can use to sidestep the limitations of the software they can use and hence blaming technical limitations on those engines is irresponsible and suppresses drive for innovation


blaming the engine is basically saying "i dont have the technically skilled worker than can mess with this stuff, or he is too busy already"
ofc you can always put in work to fix shit beyond the engine, but it cost a lot more work and you may have bought an engine cause your devs arent up to the task/would have taken too long
an engine is already a big complex thing alone, most gamedevs dont want to mess with it anymore than they need for their specific games


Aren’t game devs these days generally a lot more trained? Don’t get me wrong I’m familiar with the idea especially during the 2010s about the amount of sweatshops and juniors in the industry being given the responsibilities of major releases but since then I have noticed more schools, programs and hiring practices have begun favouring more devs and artists with experience even at an indie level just do to the size and competition of the market expecting value out of what they’re purchasing


Seeing what insane people are doing with the 30 year old Doom engine blows "it's the engine's fault" right out of the water


None of that would be possible without beforehand thorough examination and dissection of the game though, in addition to the open sourcing of its code by the developers themselves. Modders of most other games on the other hand have to do with whatever data they can mine themselves, and if lucky dissecting an older publicly available version of the engine used by the game like NetImmerse in Gamebryo's case.


I feel like your ignoring how accustomed to creation bethesda as a studio is at this stage in their history

Like fuck they’ve made so many games and each release has seen visible upgrades in the engine

Fallout 3 made 3d Bethesda games possible

oblivion and morrowind introduced procedural generation and large worlds to also be possible to run on most systems without crashes like in new Vegas

Fallout 4 introduced a lot including functioning shadows, better gunplay mechanics, better ragdolls, better facial animations, removal of limitations imposed by opening menus, better sound quality, etc even if you hate the game it’s hard not to see the visible engine differences between the games before it. Same goes for f76 and eso in their stages of development that proved 3d creation games in multiplayer are possible

And now there’s starfield introducing planetary levels of detail, vehicles(this is a big one), even more patches to the original engine, etc. there’s no reason for the studio to decide starfield is the best time to abondone the engine considering how many updates it’s recieved at this point


File: 1659037411277.png (227.64 KB, 640x480, engine limitations.png)

You mixed up Morrowind and Fallout 3 and ESO's engine is not even part of the NetImmerse family, but you are correct that Bethesda's game engine has indeed improved for the better over the course of its history. The real problem though is that these improvements are baby steps compared to how other companies like Valve and Epic improved theirs in much smaller spans of time, and that Bethesda's quality assurance and most likely development organization itself are too lacking for these changes to be implemented in a way that would be satisfactory.


Neither of these is reality.
What is actually happening is that engines are another layer (often many) of obfuscation of whatever the machine is actually doing, thus requiring knowledge of whatever the engine is doing to get somewhere.
So, there is real coin to the argument that an engine is responsible for this or that. Just look at the different ways engines implement physics rendering, and all the wacky things that come out of just that.
For fuck sake just download an engine, any engine, and start tinkering with the source/add modules. You'll find out soon enough what I am referring to.

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