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 No.21653

The following images are from guild wars 2, ESO and RuneScape

I want a legitimate answer as to what the fuck is going on with the amount of clipping found in so many MMO games that see players, NPCs and enemies alike all casually phasing through each other along with their projectiles. I used to think it was just wow but after slowing down footage and carefully taking screenshots I realized I’m not insane and that this shit is everywhere

 No.21654

Uhh anon, why are you playing rs3 and not 07?

 No.21655

>>21654
I’m not those are screenshot of gameplay I searched for from other players

Outside of that I haven’t played an mmo since I quit wow like last month to play old games with an emulator like black 2006 and kh2

 No.21656

It's so people don't trap NPCs I guess.

 No.21657

>>21656
Aren’t most NPCs standing still already

And what about other players and enemies?

 No.21658

Player and NPC collision can lead to characters getting in the way or completely stuck, especially in combat. New World had player-player and player-NPC collision and people hated it for all the problems it caused, but they still have collision on when weapons are unsheathed. NPC-NPC collision isn't worth the resources for a minor visual difference.

 No.21659

Clipping is just one of those things you are bound to get the more complicated things are. Lots of variables involved when it comes to animations, like combinations of weapons and armor. And for an MMO with many characters in a scene at once, it would be extremely chaotic not to mention computationally expensive to be calculating collisions between everyone all the time ESPECIALLY when everyone is on a different computer having to communicate their position data in a constant stream.

 No.21662

>>21658
>Player and NPC collision can lead to characters getting in the way or completely stuck, especially in comba
How tf does that happen
Why not just design the maps with that in mind to be open so it’s harder to get stuck in the first place or just do the smart thing and let the player move away to a better position

>>21659
>technical limitations
???
How the hell is having several rooms with dozens of people all in the same place with god knows how many actors having projectiles and ordinary attacks spammed senselessly in raids, dungeons, world bosses whatever easier to handle for servers than generic interactions in ordinary quests and shit like that that can be completely solo or like 1-2 extra dudes???

 No.21664

>>21658
Actually never mind

It’s more of an issue with developer incompetence than it is with the system itself holy how the hell did someone there at amazons studio fuckup that hard

 No.21665

Collision geometry is more simple and does not match visual geometry in most games. If it doesn't even match in one-on-one fighting games, why would you expect it to match anywhere else?

 No.21666

>>21665
Isn’t the point of collision geometry supposed to serve as a representation of complex geometry in games already hence it doesn’t need to be complex?

 No.21667

File: 1661666737267.png (671.31 KB, 640x1138, ClipboardImage.png)

>>21662
if youve ever played old jrpg's, the most common softlock you'll run into is getting stuck behind some old man who's pathing past you but can't finish his route because you're in the way.

 No.21668

>>21662
>How the hell is having several rooms with dozens of people all in the same place with god knows how many actors having projectiles and ordinary attacks spammed senselessly in raids, dungeons, world bosses whatever easier to handle for servers than generic interactions in ordinary quests and shit like that that can be completely solo or like 1-2 extra dudes???
The game is cheating as much as possible. They're not doing physics calculations for all that shit, usually using some simple hit detection algorithm and faking the appearance of physics objects. Tracking the collision boxes for everybody is far more complicated because every character needs to be checked against every other character within range, while your attacks in PvE only need to be checked against enemies (and often the targeting system massively cuts down the need to calculate things by only checking against one valid target). Checking for each entity against each other entity creates what's called a "combinatorial explosion," and the more detailed you want the calculation the worse it is.

You'd need to be doing trigonometry to calculate distance in 2 or 3 dimensions, which even if you fake it is significantly worse operating time than using a simple box collider which only requires less than and greater than calculations along the relevant dimensions. You wouldn't use boxes because they have too many issues with colliding on corners. Even with something like a capsule or sphere shaped collider, the process of colliding with other characters presents issues, because it's rarely a single operation. The collision might simply stop the characters' movement or cause a "bounce" to get them outside of collision range, and that can involve multiple function calls in a row from one frame to the next. Worse, in a large crowd you can have a situation where one collision happening can cause the character(s) to stop or to bounce in a way that causes further collisions. It can become very easy to cause a cascading effect this way, where many people are hobbled because the collision algorithms are getting in the way of movement. And you can do more sophisticated things to try to reduce frustration, but it's going to be even more to compute and you will still be pissing people off. The clear solution is to just ignore collision between characters because the issues for gameplay and performance simply are not worth it.

 No.21669

>>21662
>How tf does that happen
Lots of ways:
<standing in doorways or other narrow passages
<3 or 4 people running up to an ally and surrounding them, locking them in place (especially devilish if they're standing in a hazard)
<trying to dodge out of the way of an attack but not moving because an ally was in the dodge path
New World had to make bosses physically bigger because ranged players couldn't aim past melee characters, and melee characters kept getting in each others' way. People still complain about it because attacks and movements get blocked by friendly players lagging and unexpectedly getting in the way. The devs are committed to the idea but it isn't clear why when it causes so much frustration for so little gain.

 No.21678

>>21668
>The game is cheating as much as possible. They're not doing physics calculations for all that shit, usually using some simple hit detection algorithm and faking the appearance of physics objects
Wtf is the point of physics in this the only thing the developer has to do is stop players from clipping through entities they don’t have to account for shit like hittting and sticking, knock back or explosions as if the MMO is fucking dark fall
>Tracking the collision boxes for everybody is far more complicated because every character needs to be checked against every other character within range
You would’ve already had to do that with ordinary inputs even without the physics. All the collision does in this scenario is stop people from phasing through each other
>You wouldn't use boxes because they have too many issues with colliding on corners. Even with something like a capsule or sphere shaped collider, the process of colliding with other characters presents issues, because it's rarely a single operation
That would sound reasonable under the assumption that the developer couldn’t just recycle the collision geometry that was already present on entities
>The collision might simply stop the characters' movement or cause a "bounce" to get them outside of collision range, and that can involve multiple function calls in a row from one frame to the next
There’s two things wrong with that sentence, one it implies the actions being done during a collision are being calculated on a frame by frame basis which is something so retarded only Bethesda pulled during the release of fallout 76 which caused a massive bug with players with strong PCs moving at Mach 4, two again im asking players to not clip through actors, you wouldn’t need a knock back effect or anything you would just need to prevent them from moving through something which can be done with something as simple as cancelling their velocity even if their inputs are placed on a movement key
>It can become very easy to cause a cascading effect this way, where many people are hobbled because the collision algorithms are getting in the way of movement
Read above and again this sounds more like a problem that would be caused by developer incompetence like what was posted prior with new worlds collisions not matching the hit boxes than it does as a problem with anything related to gameplay

 No.21680

>>21668
Second note
There’s two always online games with large lobbies I can name that can handle actor collisions with multiple enemies and NPCs at once just fine

Path of exile with entire zones that can consist of 100s of enemies with proper collisions at a time whom the game either has dozens or hundreds of active zones per server and to a lesser extent lost ark because you can’t pass through every actor except for players


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