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File: 1663634107176.jpg (150.05 KB, 1280x720, legion.jpg)

 No.22565

legit question, and who is the better choice for the wasteland?
i>inb4 ncr
gtfo

 No.22569

when the legion comes to your doorstep, you don't really have a choice do you

 No.22570

Story reasons mostly

Yeah their aesthetics do fucking suck dick and they do look like Bdsm cosplayers to most but the reason why people join them is do to their actions in comparison to the NCR. Legion has a gold standard attached to their currency preventing inflation, some amount of religion that fans see as a way for residents of the Mojave to cope with the situation of their land, the macho culture being the legion is at least gameplay wise more openly aggressive than the NCR(see the comparison between the behaviour of the hitmen in the games) and that’s about as far as I’ll go

 No.22571

File: 1663636236866.png (112.1 KB, 1931x862, ClipboardImage.png)

>>22570
I would argue that the fact that they enslaved the midwest is enough power projection to get people to join willfully or by force

 No.22572

oh this is about the player not the lore

yeah I guess it's just because of player fantasy reasons, and the lucky shades

 No.22573

>>22570
>gold standard
Creates deflation, benefits the wealthy

 No.22577

Kicking the NCR's ass through an independent path because stopping their cancerous expansion will force them to confront their contradictions immediately rather than after they've conquered half of America. Hopefully they can have a revolution and line the brahmin barons against the nearest wall.
They have so many impending collapses waiting for them, from the corrupt government to the looming food issue the science bureaucrat guy tells you about. It's better that they face it as early as possible. Best thing for them and the wasteland.

 No.22580

I assume we're talking about the actual people who sympathize with the Legion and not the aesthetics alone. Caesar is unambiguously talked about as an egomaniac who while brilliant has built a society that's almost doomed to fail and descend into infighting on his death, so in the released state of the game it's pretty clear that the Legion seems to have little future and is delaying the inevitable (unless one chooses to believe that the courier or someone with Caesar's vision can take the mantle).

But what's great about the writing is that he's seductive. If you suspend the practical problems around the Legion, and think about the flaws of the other choices (which are virtually all variants of returning to modernity), it really starts to seem as if Caesar knows things that everyone else is blind to, and that he was the only one willing to entertain a solution that would bring civilization back no matter the cost. You get the feeling that he isn't just an asshole for no reason (which he isn't) but that he is the guy with the knowledge and the guts to make all the painful decisions that will be better for humanity in the long run. It inspires a feeling that your service to him, even in a suicide mission, will never be in vain compared to the bumbling NCR or the profit-minded House.

On its own, he's right. But the (subtle) deal-breaker is that his rule is a long set of constantly changing decrees than a system, a form of government, or a strategy of creating economic infrastructure and relations. He never explains that much aside from an appeal to Pax Romana and shitty Hegelian dialectics, and dangles the idea of heroism and martial discipline to substitute for the fact that he actually has the haziest vision for the future among the four choices–if he even has a vision at all. He wants something alien in the likeness of the Roman Empire, but only because it's alien, and with seemingly little notice of how Rome fell, or how Rome eventually led to the same Europe, America, and the nuclear war that led to his own situation. Caesar never mentions these because it never crosses his mind. If you're willing to believe that his self-directed confidence trick that the bloody fight for something meaningful IS the meaningful goal itself, then it would be completely understandable why people might seriously be tempted to support the Legion.

 No.22585

>>22565
I usually side with mister House or go independent, those 2 endings are actually better for the NCR than the NCR ending because it stops their rapid expansion and invasions and forces them to get their shit together at least somewhat. as for why people side with the spergion idk, usually for roleplaying. also unironic legion fan"boys" are some of the most autistic people I've seen in a long time.

 No.22610

>>22585
When you think about it house and yes mana endings were the only ones that made any sense

The courier was never allied to anyone from the start and straight already blew up the divide

 No.22613

one time I was going to try the legion path just to explore more of the game, but when I started doing more of the quests I just said "fuck this", killed Caesar and went Yes Man again

 No.22615

because of that hot furry twink

 No.22616

File: 1663760668838.png (84.82 KB, 1162x850, legion feels.png)

I sided with the Legion once because I had a really bad day and wanted to RP an edgy raider. Also this >>22615

 No.23016

>>22570
>gold standard
just to be a lore nerd, NCR too had a gold standard and probably was much wealthier than the legion before the brotherhood blew it up

 No.23024

>>22570
>>22577
mfw people here go seething about muh gold standard and muh corrupt barrons even tho america historically rose under a highly corrupt oligarchy gov that expanded westwards. Not only that the eventul removal of the gold standard allowed money lending or credit to expand which would fuel even further industriliztaion, even tho it cuses infltion. The ncr while would lead to the same pth old world america did would still lead to the same old world rise of merica. Ceasers legion meanwhile is an unsustaniable hellhole thats going to burn immediately

and before you say muh ncr can deal with their contradictions if they focus inward, bruh this is the ncr do you honestly believe they would be able to deal with their own problems.

 No.23026

File: 1664773600043.png (320.77 KB, 568x335, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.23029

File: 1664797337817.mp4 (5.36 MB, 1280x720, No_Bones_In_My_Gun.mp4)

>>23016
Their currency was stronger comparatively to the bottlecap but people still didn't really like using it. Basically everyone in NV complains about getting paid in NCR dollars, even NCR citizens, while the conversion rate between Legion currency and caps is much more favorable. A paper currency is only good once it has established itself as an economic standard, but a coin minted with rare and valuable metals are always at least somewhat valuable in any economy. Most NCR citizens use a mix of caps and barter where they can because the NCR dollar is massively inflationary with war spending, loss of gold reserves, and a heavy wealth disparity concentrating money at the top, which is kinda parallel to the early US during like the Whiskey rebellion where the lower class of the US actively rejected dollarization and stuck to local bartering economies with alcohol as the "standard" measurement for currency, in the same way caps are only valuable because they represent the value of a sealed bottle of clean water.
>>23024
That is less a lack of vision on the part of Caesar and more his main point - in Fallout we have a literal canonical end to how America develops - nuclear war as their expansionism and imperialism finally gets halted by the Chinese and their economy collapses under the strain. If the NCR uses the US as a plan to the letter, them ending the world in nuclear fire in 200 odd years is basically an inevitability, a contention against the NCR which both Legion and the BoS hold. Shit like the OSI shows they are already playing with fire, getting the "growth enhancers" out of Vault 3 which literally killed everyone in it, and they are already approving of nuclear warfare cause if you nuke Legion in the end of Lonesome Road you get enough fame to be near-idolized by the NCR.

 No.23043

Wasn't the entire point of the game that the NCR was attempting to rebuild the world by imitating governments that destroyed it, whereas the Legion aped a mythical past that had no basis in the present, and both were doomed to fail because they never addressed why those systems failed?

 No.23046

>>23043
Dude fallout has never had writing that intelligent the whole series was wasteland fanfic from the start. Questions like that explored in a game would be way to fucking intense on every studio that has worked on fallout to actually manage properly

 No.23047

>>23043
kinda, but the NCR clearly has a better chance.

Meanwhile the alternatives are Mr House (Sinapore-fascism) or Yes Man which is kind of a wish fulfillment thing but the courier has no government expertise and it seems unlikely they could come up with anything better than the NCR.

>>23046
I dunno I think the fact that both big factions are trying to ape the past is a fairly obvious take that the devs probably intended.

 No.23048

>>23016
Gold as money makes no sense when it doesn't have to be mined. The fact that it must be dug from the earth and can only be found in limited (and progressively growing) quantites is the only way that it can function as an equivilent value to commodities. The Metro system of bullets as the money commodity makes more sense since they must be produced by human labor and can be produced at a progressively faster pace as industrial capacity develops.

 No.23052

>>23043
Whether NCR or Legion would succeed or fail was left deliberately ambiguous, part of why the game is still talked about today. Hell, the in-game theory is that without Caesar the Legion would kick the bucket quickly because Lanius is supposed to just be a witless brute, but when you actually meet him on either side of the lines he is quite cunning and pretty clearly capable of higher level planning and to boot doesn't have the same ideological trappings as Caesar, which might even make him a better leader in the immediate term for perpetuating the Legion. House especially figures the death of Caesar won't affect Legion in the short or long term, and he is usually pretty correct when it comes to the political analysis of individuals.

 No.23053

>>23016
also they didn't blow it up, they heavily irradiated it beyond usefulness, which is funny and poetic

 No.23324

>>23029
yes but my point is that ceasers legion path will just end up like this >>23043


ncr will lead to the same shit but the ceasers legion doesnt present a better alternative at all

 No.23329

File: 1665525624982.png (215.79 KB, 349x500, ClipboardImage.png)

>>23053
Wait, seriously?

 No.23346

>>23329
Josh Sawyer has contested it,I'm pretty sure it's just a mandela effect.
From what he said,they raided the gold reserves to the point that the NCR couldn't issue currency anymore,nor exchange it for gold (making the "gold-backing" irrelevant)

 No.23357

>>23324
My read on Legion was it was never meant to "survive" (at least, as Legion), it was a tool for conquering/subjugating as much as possible within one lifetime before the same military contradictions within Rome consumed Legion and it collapsed into petty feudal states - the foundation for new nation-states to rise out of America and (hopefully) change the dialectical course of history away from what is a repeat of nuclear annihilation through following in the footsteps of America.
>>23329
>>23346
I think it might've been a one-off line from the Fallout bible that everyone latched on to.

 No.23367

File: 1665599713613.png (1.41 MB, 596x1377, st. clair.png)

>>23024
>america historically rose
Yes, that's the problem. Nobody except the NCR elite wants to see them form a shart larp empire over the wasteland.

They'll either have a revolution and become better, or be bogged down in civil wars/get balkanized and let the rest of the wasteland develop on its own terms.
Of course, this also involves accelerating the Legion's demise.

 No.23368

>>23357
>>23367
How can people be like 'uhm the NCR evoking America so it's historical bound to fail' yet they give the legion a pass for evoking a way of life that failed thousands of years earlier and trying to rebuild society by INTENTIONALLY rejecting any kind of industrial base that they could salvage meaning the world will need to start over and try to have an industrial revolution again but with 1/100th of the resources remaining

 No.23369

File: 1665604579113-0.jpg (589.29 KB, 1920x1190, 4de5fr6gthy7ju89ik.jpg)

File: 1665604579113-1.jpg (56.86 KB, 748x960, gbhunijmk.jpg)

>>23368
>How can people be like 'uhm the NCR evoking America so it's historical bound to fail' yet they give the legion a pass for evoking a way of life that failed thousands of years earlier and trying to rebuild society by INTENTIONALLY rejecting any kind of industrial base
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=X7bAkohmoKg
try again ncr cuck buck, legion is modeled on rome which was characterized by its adaptability and flexible thinking of its leadership
>>23367
>this also involves accelerating the Legion's demise
>>23324
https://yewtu.be/watch?v=kSm6oivMyCw
>>23346
>i'm pretty sure it's just a mandela effect.
go home gnome
>>23047
>kinda, but the NCR clearly has a better chance.
nope, retards on rewind really
>>23029
>Shit like the OSI shows they are already playing with fire, getting the "growth enhancers" out of Vault 3 which literally killed everyone in it, and they are already approving of nuclear warfare cause if you nuke Legion in the end of Lonesome Road you get enough fame to be near-idolized by the NCR.
this, imagine willing to entertain the same model of government/ style of faction which genocided the entire world(america government in all likelihood was/still is the aggressor lore wise). Also Legion gets points+ for accelerationism.
>buh buh legion will eventually collapse without caesar
no shit the bare minimum the legion is going for is prevention of wide-scale repeat of the nuclear war via more self reliant/contained societies means ironically. Only npcs outside the legion say it will collapse, which really comes off as westoid sensibilities seeping thru because of booji democrapsy and 'muh representatives'.

 No.23370

File: 1665609159794.jpg (232.2 KB, 1570x1536, tapestry of immense size.jpg)

>>23369
>Legion shill
>Sam Hyde fan

quelle surprise, I wonder what this tells us about your ideology

I never said the Legion has never used technology but they are clearly a 100% slave based economic model that might use an artillery gun they find laying around but will never construct an industrial base.

Also Rome couldn't even win a single battle that wasn't held in an open field with no sneaky tricks like ambushing, reconnaissance, or deception by the other side lmao. They were the most inflexible and autistic major military power of history.

 No.23373

>>23369
The Legion is based on Prussia, which was infamous for being indistinguishable from its military. Caesar's mentions of Hegel who saw Prussia with its "enlightened" absolute monarchy with a large hierarchy of civil servants as solving the perceived dialectical progression in history also support this. Also it's a statement on the latent American militarism and "civilizing" settler-colonial mission that still lives on in the wasteland.

 No.23374

File: 1665619725221.jpg (111.16 KB, 349x526, h.jpg)

>>23370
> ncr shill
> sam hyde reference
does your mommy still wipe your ass for you?
>I wonder what this tells us about your ideology
you really took the bait, reddit
>Rome couldn't even win a single battle that wasn't held in an open field with no sneaky tricks like ambushing, reconnaissance, or deception by the other side lmao.
You mean when it couldnt win when it didnt know the know the terrain and surroundings, brilliant observations anon truly. Also it didnt have to it had when it had its allies do it for for em

 No.23375

what is the deal with the schizo elija fag or whatever his name is

 No.23376

>>23375
someone is sore lol

 No.23377

File: 1665623434811.png (2.06 MB, 1038x1051, buyin.png)


 No.23378


 No.23380

>>23375
just some person who makes meme videos about NV, probably from the /vg/ Fallout NV thread considering there was a bitter civil war between the fallout NV/OG Fallout posters and the Fallout 3/4 posters, to the point they split into their own separate threads.

 No.23382

>>23368
>but with 1/100th of the resources remaining
In combination with the existence of fairly advanced renewable energy sources (the dams, solar tech, windmills, geothermal, ect) on top of untapped biological power potential from various mutations caused by the Great War, it would pressure societies towards renewable power sources and would avoid the thing that would nuke the world (the Resource Wars).

 No.23383

>>23377
gab that 2 me mug not online well c wot comes about

 No.23384

>>23382
Wouldn't they just fight over the renewables? Besides fat chance those advanced techs gonna be usable since most of the stuff is propably broken beyond repair and even more so in a couple hundred decades/centuries it would take for these societies to emerge. And what's this biological power, you gonna burn all the forests like we did in the past? Or make conan-style power stations but psychic?

 No.23385

>>23384
>Besides fat chance those advanced techs gonna be usable since most of the stuff is propably broken beyond repair and even more so in a couple hundred decades/centuries it would take for these societies to emerge.
All the factories and knowledge still exists - sequestered in groups like the Followers and the BoS is all the stuff needed to work on mass-production and deployment of these kinds of things. Only issue is the Followers have no productive capacity beyond cooperative co-ops and the BoS is largely insular and waging a war for survival against the NCR, who only is digging deeper into things probably best left buried. They deny the Followers their findings, instead handing it off to a corrupt OSI, and further don't lend them any of their productive capacity, and to put salt on the wound brand them as anarchists undermining the NCR's authority and aiding its enemies (especially in the case of tribals the NCR wants to colonize). And the BoS? Self-explanatory really, sooner or later the NCR will learn why the BoS had its mantras about restricting the knowledge of the most dangerous tech humanity had before the end.
>And what's this biological power
There are creatures which are literally living breathing isotopes, you could probably use glowing ones as radiation sponges and refine their blood down into usable isotopes. That's before looking at the possibility of fringe mutants which have organically composed combustibles, like the fire ants or geckos. Theoretically they could be farmed and harvested for their bio-fuels.

 No.23387

>>23384
>Besides fat chance those advanced techs gonna be usable since most of the stuff is propably broken beyond repair

Why not? Stuff like Helios One, or the solar panels found with Boomers are still functional.

>>23385
>They deny the Followers their findings, instead handing it off to a corrupt OSI
The OSI hasn't really reached that part yet. It was initially founded by former Followers precisely trying to focus on industrialization, and their leaders still adhere to their FoA teachings. The entire point of the guy in charge of OSI operations in the Mojave, Hildern, in sending you into Vault 22 is, by his own admission, to secure himself a seat on the Director's Board and purge the Followers from it. (Something that is exceptionally easy to miss, since you have to talk to him a second time after speaking with his assistant, and choose an already greyed-out dialogue choice).

>And the BoS?

A question that is more complicated thatn you make it out to be (in both directions). On one hand, they ARE a cult of tech hoarders. Hell, its most progressive member of the Mojave Chapters rejects the potentially game-changing tech like the Vault 22 fertilizer with literally zero considerations, neither positive or negative during Veronicas quest. Not to mention possibly rogue members straight-up murdering people on the OFF-CHANCE that they may spill some beans.

With that said, NCR is, ironically, partly to blame for that turn towards zealotry. According to Chris Avelonne/the Fallout Bible, two things happened: 1, they actually DID try to demilitarize themselves, but then the Enclave in Navarro almost kicked their shit in (which led to them joining the NCR in their war against them), and 2…. the NCR bombing the BoS when they secured Navarro because they mistook them for Enclave soldiers due to their lack of experience with power armors. That ended up completely embolding the most reactionary forces within the BoS, and the rest is history.

 No.23388

>>23385
>All the factories and knowledge still exists
The guy you who said the 1/100th thing first was talking about possible far future societies that would emerge perhaps after the legion. Even if the they keep kicking I have doubts it would industrialize, and in a possible ensuing collapse at some point in the following decades after their victory the factories and knowledge would be lost to time and cencorship. Though in the ending slides it is shown Caesar atleast respects the followers enough to let them leave their lands, and if he's dead they all get killed. But either way their knowledge propably won't get used by them.
>The mutants
Never seen anyone think of this, sounds biopunk as hell. Definitely a possibility. But wouldn't all this require pretty advanced technology and resources?

>>23387
The rest of the wasteland is very much not like the Mojave. It's an expectional treasure trove which had it's stuff preserved both from weather, nuclear war and thus scavengers. Until someone decides to add more expectional places to the lore this is the way it will be. True, places like the Pitt exist, but to my knowledge that place being more than a ruin is played off as a small miracle. And the midwest BoS doesn't have much lore on how it's economy works, they're far too brainy to allow their enemies knowledge they hoarded anyways.

 No.23394

>>23388
The BoS and Followers would both outlast the Legion, just out of the vast scale of their distribution if nothing else. The Followers were in Utah and beyond when Legion was JUST starting to rise, by now they've probably gotten even further past Denver/Dog City and breaking through the Midwest to get to the East. The BoS likewise made giant-ass air blimps and scattered some of their men elsewhere, forming far-off obscure chapters with tasks and remote decentralized leadership allowing them to continue on even without Lost Hills.

 No.23396

>>23388
>True, places like the Pitt exist,
I thought the Pitt was the way it was because it was ran by an ex-BoS member using a massive slave economy to try and restore the industrial capacity of the area and make it into an independent viable settlement and cure the Troglodyte disease, more than "it was Just Working(tm) when they got there".

 No.23403

>>23394
Hmm. True, but I am not sure how much knowledge their different chapters have from their homes. I guess if they do keep even the important parts they'll help industrialization in the end yeah. I ignored the rest of the world too, europe and even mexico propably have factions equaling the ncr and the legion somewhere without some war in usa affecting them in any way.

>>23396
My memory is bad but I remember someone somewhere in the dlc commenting how it was amazing the place didn't get hit or otherwise damaged beyond repair because of the city's industry being a big target. And the whole cure thing is a pretty big maybe, though it would propably make the east coast BoS a big player if it was real since they could conquer it for themselves. But the point was you don't find repairable industry everywhere.

 No.23408

>>23403
From what I remember each chapter takes with them a copy of the Codex, and the Codex includes everything from membership rosters, command directives, tactics, blueprints, history (both pre and post war), common military passwords, maps of different civilian and military infrastructure, so on. At the baseline the Codex probably has knowledge of advanced nuclear fusion and fission devices (common to both power armor and energy weapons, and many military installations), but a lot of the pre-war military bases could use niche power systems like geothermal, solar, hydro-electric, and so on. The Mojave chapter didn't have seemingly any difficulty restoring Helios One and presumably parts of Hoover Dam to functionality before Operation Sunburst and their asset denial attempts against the NCR breaking both again, so I don't think that manufacture and repair of renewable energy sources is outside of any BoS chapter's wheelhouse.

 No.23409

>>23408
Wow, so a lot. No wonder all their chapters become op the moment they get a foot in. The technology propably wouldn't be lost at all if all the codexes don't magically get destroyed hundreds of kilometers apart from each other not even counting other factions. Too bad the resources are so scarce but surely they'll make do. I'm calling it the next game will 100% involve a chapter doing something like in tactics, conquering stuff and building a society since bethesda has an even bigger fetish for them than the og devs ever did.
Got me thinking, would caesar winning or losing even affect the course of history much? No matter who wins I mean we have all the BoS chapters, followers and propably a bunch of smaller rising factions all across the us, even more outside of it, some propably having decent tech since those are the people with an advantage. It's just some regional fight.

 No.23414

>>23409
With how the east coast was written? Probably. Caesar is trying to speedrun the fall of Rome and rise of European powers but denied a conventional industrial revolution, and Legion control might go as far East as Denver, holding much (if not all) of Colorado.

Since Tactics is quasi-canon, further east from that is likely the Midwestern BoS, a schismatic branch of the BoS which is more beholden to the martial tradition of the BoS than the later additions like the "Knight in Shining Power Armor" stuff, and openly recruits not only random wastelanders but also ghouls and super-mutants who hold a non-insignificant amount of territory in and around Illinois-Missouri-Iowa. They aren't wildly large despite this due to getting into protracted struggles with some Posadist-level pre-war nonsense and also probably the Enclave (there is supposed to be a large presence of them in Chicago as per NV so they very likely went to war after Tactics). While Legion probably doesn't want to push into their territory since they are entrenched as hell and have been cutting their teeth fighting the worst enemies the wastes could throw at them, the same is also probably true for this Chapter because they have been at non-stop war pretty much since they moved into the region.

Of course further east you have the East Coast BoS, who are a major power and more conventionally Brotherhood, but I doubt they would turn around to fight Legion on the other side of the continent anytime soon. Even assuming a BoS defeat in 4, the Minutemen are too marginal to even impact Legion, the Institute is too autistic to do anything good without imploding, and the Nuka-Raiders just want drugs and sex slaves so I doubt they even care. Oh, and the Railroad exists.

Outside of that, immediate threats to Legion or post-Legion lands are all in the Fallout Bible or scrapped games. Most of them are anywhere from small Brotherhood chapters to basically lost NCR expeditions further East and varieties of tribals and small settlements inhabiting the wastes.

The West has lead to conventional "civilization" rising so quickly maybe because the unique pressures of the area which heavily incentivizes stuff like settled living and agriculture, especially considering the common point irl for these things were in the ME. Other places could subsist off of much simpler methods of social organization like hunting and gathering or even scavenging and small-scale subsistence farming instead of mass organized agriculture. While they might reach the same heights in time, I think that the NCR or Legion/post-Legion states would outpace that development with their own expansionism and conquer these people, unless there are games specifically made to show the rapid growth of states in these areas (which, under Bethesda's writing team, seems unlikely).

 No.23419

>>22610
yeah, I don't like House that much but it just feels wrong to kill him off, I struggle to have my character find reasons to remove him. I prefer to go with yesman but I don't mind House being my bitch either (the good karma courier can influence him greatly in the ending slides)

 No.23420

>>23369
>links us to schizo elijah's faggotry
hooo boy, here come the autistic little boys.

 No.23421

>>23375
just some immature edgelord who can't take what he dishes out. he kicked me out of his server for jokingly promoting homofascism and lusting after Vulpes inculta. he is such a thin-skinned bitch.

 No.23422

>>23414
>the west has unique pressures of the area which heavily incentivizes stuff like settled living and agriculture
>Other places could subsist off of much simpler methods of social organization like hunting and gathering or even scavenging and small-scale subsistence farming instead of mass organized agriculture.
Can you expand this part a bit? I guess the west would have the central valley and less opportunities for non-centralized agricultural sustenance because of how most of it is desert. How do we know if places like the midwest didn't birth such societies with the mississippi and many of the other rivers propably being left in the middle of a nuclear desert like out west?
> I think that the NCR or Legion/post-Legion states would outpace that development with their own expansionism and conquer these people, unless there are games specifically made to show the rapid growth of states in these areas (which, under Bethesda's writing team, seems unlikely).
I on the other hand think their rapid expansion would create a counterforce to it, many smaller societies banding up to defend themselves even if they aren't necessarily growing to be a unified state. But again we don't know if they're "just" tribals or if they even exist at all. Definitely an interesting idea.

 No.23423

>>23419
>I struggle to have my character find reasons to remove him

Sic Semper Tyrannis

 No.23428

>>23423
yeah I know hes a cunt and I have my reasons for wanting me dead but its hard to do if you roleplay. I have many reasons to kill him, my character usually doesn't.

 No.23429

>>23428
wanting him dead*
god I can't spell today.

 No.23433

>>23422
Basically the less capacity for ambiently growing food puts increased pressure to where you can grow food to be centralized, centralized agriculture produces food surpluses which allow for the creation of the division of labor, and the division of labor is generally the point of what we think of as "society" starts existing as more people pursue tasks which are not just finding food to survive. There is a balancing point where food needs to be naturally scarce but somewhat easily farmable to incentivize this growth quickly, and California could fit the bill with year-round growing seasons and plenty of decent bodies of water and aquifers to farm with.

 No.23436

>>23433
Thanks for clarification, realized I've always assumed in my head people just flocked to areas with agricultural potential instead of those where food was readily available first. But I think many of the river basins in the post-apocalypse could fit this category of ready food and growable food since fallout has that sweet everything slightly hot is now a radioactive desert thing going on.

 No.23466

>>23421
>Jokingly


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