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File: 1608528303828.png (1.3 MB, 1372x1744, 1606835223359.png)

 No.6405

I really don't think I'm smart but surely the public isn't this retarded?
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 No.6407

File: 1608528304029.png (800.98 KB, 1280x1381, 02d6be1c0640ffbcb137e10beb….png)

Calm down anon, the Sjews are a paper tiger, your videogames are fine. This one piece of a dumb 2017 presentation isn't gonna kill you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OwQZc5c925I
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 No.6409

>>6407
I wasn't even talking about SJWs?
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 No.6417

Fallout is definitely an example of bad character building design, though perhaps not how this man thinks it is. The game is so barebones and low-content that it hardly even services most of its skills, and player is tasked with having foreknowledge to determine which skills are actually worth putting points into. In addition, many of them simply increase the probability of an action succeeding, and it doesn't even transform into 100% of the time at the highest levels, making the game highly savescum-oriented and giving the player little incentive to actually put points into those ones.
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 No.6418

>>6417
>In addition, many of them simply increase the probability of an action succeeding, and it doesn't even transform into 100% of the time at the highest levels, making the game highly savescum-oriented and giving the player little incentive to actually put points into those ones.
Never played a tabletop RPG?
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 No.6421

>>6417
You can make that accusation of Fallout 1 and 2 but it's hardly like Fallout 3 onwards need savescumming (except for some enemies that have 50000 hp)
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 No.6468

>>6418
Since when did DMs allow redos?
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 No.6469

>>6418
Yeah and you know what tabletop RPGs aren't? Good games. Let me explain.

A game is a test of skill for the purpose of entertainment. Tabletop role-playing "games" (for the most part) do not have rigidly defined rules and expectations–rather, it's the dungeon master that makes and alters the game at any given time. In this environment it is impossible for the player to hone their skills to overcome some challenge because the skills being tested at any moment are always subject to flux by the whims of the dungeon master. Tabletop RPGs are more akin to very elaborate renditions of playing Power Rangers or Dragon Ball Z on the playground, where you use your imagination to make up new things as you play, rather than games. They're very good at having a fun-filled night of surprise with your friends, but their mechanics, which were never intended for the construction of an actual game, become a disaster zone when transplanted to singleplayer game contexts.
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 No.6470

Well, I haven't seen the talk, but I for one like Tim Cain's triangle. It's like arguing over an extremely compressed photo. You say you hate it because the compression is so extreme it doesn't even look like a photo anymore. And I say I can't imagine anything looking better at that tiny filesize. There is no logical conflict here, just different priorities.

Now imagine a circle at each of the three corners and you can zoom in on a circle and see that the skill is actually three sub-skills of equal strength and you can turn the circle into a triangle if you care. Over 50 possibilities and still a tidy interface. Maybe you could have three zoom levels?
>Level 1: Thoroughly playtested experience. Very casual-friendly. In case of a sequel, this is where the canon stuff happens.
>Level 2: For genre veterans.
>Level 3: Basically a cheat menu except most choices fuck you over.
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 No.6473

>>6417
Okay, now post Exile III.
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 No.6474

>>6469
>not REAL games
Why are /v/ermin always like this
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 No.6475

File: 1608528310022.gif (1.39 MB, 200x150, 1448030804702.gif)

>>6469
>their mechanics, which were never intended for the construction of an actual game, become a disaster zone when transplanted to singleplayer game contexts
huh, weird, ive had plenty of fun playing fallout, shadowrun, wizardry, etc
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 No.6477

File: 1608528310198.png (82.1 KB, 639x349, game.png)

>>6474
Because we're on a games discussion board and you expect some of the users to have a clue what a game actually is.

>>6475
>I had fun, so they're good games
Now [b]this[/b] is the level of discourse one typically expects from /v/ users passing as arguments. There are many activities that an individual can find subjectively fun, but that doesn't mean they're games. I have a lot of fun arguing with people over the definition of games on the internet, does that mean what I'm doing is also a game?
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 No.6487

>Great-OK-OK
>Good-Good-Yucky
*puts on shades*
>5-2-2
>4-4-1
>>6474
Well. Consider this: Is there anything the Dungeon Master isn't allowed to do? If the DM can override anything, what is left of the game? You make a decision that seems wise given the information you got, the DM just says your character has a hallucination or whatever and forces him to do stupid shit and you are dead. A DM can make the scenario solid by acting with much self-constraint, so it can get serious and tactical, but that's basically the equivalent of chanting "mods will fix it" with computer games. (It's actually worse, since you can't download the DM.)
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 No.6492

File: 1608528311800.png (375.07 KB, 900x900, 1424029119970-3.png)

>>6477
You post this derailing shit constantly, stop or else I will make you stop.
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 No.6493

>>6492
>derailing
Grow thicker skin, this is a games discussion board. You pull this intimidation shit enough and you can kiss whatever traffic this fledgling board has goodbye.
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 No.6497

File: 1608528312184.jpg (11.82 KB, 300x300, dog-shadowrun1.jpg)

>>6475
>shadowrun
As much as I hate to give Exile poster any credit, the Shadowrun games tend to ignore a lot of the tabletop's mechanics and just use its lore for story flavor. Compare the Harebrained Schemes games (which copy/pastes XCOM 2012's combat) with the SNES game that's about two steps from being a point-and-click adventure. It's not like it's Baldur's Gate or Icewind Dale and you can tell they've got D20 running under the hood. Each game is noticeably mechanically different, both from each other and the source material.
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 No.6502

>>6493
>spamming "muh /v/" is discussion
fuck off
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 No.6503

>>6502
Wasn't me, I think you should be getting mad at this poster: >>6474
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 No.6506

>>6469
>>6477
>tabletop games arent "real games"
>vidya based on tabletop games arent "real games" either
lmfao
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 No.6508

>>6469
>become a disaster zone when transplanted to singleplayer game contexts.
Yeah except they dont, lol.
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 No.6512

>>6506
Do you have an argument?
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 No.6823

File: 1608528349835.png (309.35 KB, 1300x854, triangles.png)

>>6405
we gained alot

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