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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.1024595[Last 50 Posts]

Since this community is primarily composed of westerners, discussions of religion and spirituality often concentrates on christianity, while buddhism is often ignored. However, buddhism has a lot of relevance in the history of communism in Asia, and even today the Dalai Lama still openly calls himself a marxist.

However, what really interests me is whether buddhist practice makes people less or more revolutionary. Speaking from experience, buddhist practice made my life much more peaceful, instead of being angry at the system, I let go and accept the reality. By accepting it I don't mean that I support it, but that I simply understand that this is the way things are and that me being angry won't change anything, or will it?

Also, I think buddhism has the potential of making people more leftist. For example:
> The emphasis on thinking about interdependence along with meditation practice, which makes your preconceived notions fade away, opens people to realise the truth about capitalism
> the eightfold path includes right livelihood, which forces people to think whether the way they make money is exploitative of others or not
> The main driver behind capitalism, greed, is the first of the three poisons, one of the Buddhas teachings

ITT: Buddhism and socialism

 No.1024599

File: 1655728594902.jpg (214.32 KB, 2048x1152, 2048x1152.jpg)

Some quotes from prominent buddhism about this topic:

> Of all the modern economic theories, the economic system of Marxism is founded on moral principles, while capitalism is concerned only with gain and profitability. … The failure of the regime in the former Soviet Union was, for me, not the failure of Marxism but the failure of totalitarianism. For this reason I still think of myself as half-Marxist, half-Buddhist.

t. Dalai Lama

 No.1024600

File: 1655728641820.jpg (98.48 KB, 720x663, tzsf5z5rtgm71.jpg)

>>1024599
>Look at the birds: we will see that they eat only as much food as their stomachs can hold. They cannot take more than that; they don't have granaries. Look down at the ants and insects: that is all they can do. Look at the trees: trees imbibe only as much nourishment and water as the trunk can hold, and cannot take in any more than that. Therefore a system in which people cannot encroach on each other's rights or plunder their possessions is in accordance with nature and occurs naturally, and that is how it has become a society continued to be one, until trees became abundant, animals became abundant, and eventually human beings became abundant in the world. The freedom to hoard was tightly controlled by nature in the form of natural socialism.
t. Buddhadāsa Bhikkhu

 No.1024601

>>1024600
>They cannot take more than that; they don't have granaries. Look down at the ants and insects: that is all they can do.
This guy clearly doesn't know how ants work.

 No.1024608

File: 1655729374677.jpg (282.84 KB, 1280x1707, MSR-ra-61-b-1-DM.jpg)

Is there any real differance between Budhism and Stoicism once you get into the meat of it? Hell, Markus Aurelius even paralels a lot of Budha's biography.

 No.1024609

>>1024595
>whether buddhist practice makes people less or more revolutionary
zen buddhists enthusiastically supported japanese militarism up to and during world war 2, and more recently buddhist monks in myanmar said rohingya are reincarnated rats and snakes so there's no need to treat them as human. any religion can be reconfigured to support the needs of the ruling class

 No.1024611

>>1024608
perhaps, but pyrrhonism was directly influenced by buddhism

 No.1024612

>>1024608
Im not completely sure. Does stoicism put emphasis on meditation practice? And by that I mean stuff like breathing and visualisation, not thinking meditation. Also, how does stoicism achieve the fading away of the self?

 No.1024615

>>1024609
True, that is a point Zizek rightfully makes and that is my main problem with Buddhism tbh. The peace you can achieve through the practice is arguably achievable even if you are a murderer. However fostering an ability to be at peace with how things are is just one of the teachings, in reality Japanese Zen buddhists military people had to do a lot of mental gymnastics to get to the point where their buddhism was compatible with their actions

 No.1024623

>>1024595
one more thing to add, impermanence is a core concept of buddhism and any worthwhile buddhist that realised this will not succumb to conservatism since they will know all things are not eternal. it is also in line with how marxists present their ideology, the ideology of how society will change, something something present state of things lol. the monastic order could go fuck themselves though, while not all are corrupt, some like those that are intertwined with the government is a hotbed for shit like >>1024609 although the current dalai lama is kinda based and he said sometimes that he won't reincarnate further therefore abolishing the position.

t. former buddhist

 No.1024625

>>1024608
cuckpilled bozo with another retarded take.

 No.1024628

>>1024623
Thanks for the good take anon. I agree with you that the monastic order is shit, religion and top down structure always turns ugly one way or another.

Mind I ask you, what made you a former buddhist? Is it something akin to the raft parable or another reason?

 No.1024629

>>1024595
Any religion by itself is neither revolutionary or reactionary; it can be either one, depending on how it is mobilized and by whom. This anon >>1024609 got it right; there is nothing necessarily peaceful about Buddhism just as much as there is nothing necessarily egalitarian about Christianity. Just as much as the Opus Dei can mobilize Catholicism to ultra-reactionary ends, Latino-American liberation theologians could mobilize it to revolutionary purposes.

Still, it is undeniable that each religion engenders certain ways of being that differ somewhat; meditation is (I'd argue) the main characteristic of Buddhism, and which is something that pretty much doesn't exist in the western tradition (the closest you get are some medieval monkish rules and some Greek philosophical practices, afaik). This can be tremendously powerful as a tool for critique of the world, since it to a degree necessitates paying attention to the world around you (and thus not being as able to ignore poverty, suffering, etc., in the Mahayana tradition anyway). But this does not necessarily produce a critique of society.; Buddhism is perfectly capable of being used for neoliberal ends, as in the "McMindfulness" model of meditation where you meditate in order to be a better worker, become more successful, etc., which is pretty prevalent on the west coast of the USA.

Zen Buddhism in particular has the problem that it is a derivation of Chinese Taoism, which, with its concept of "inaction" (wu wei) can easily be interpreted as a conservative injunction (though I disagree). The truth is that it is less about the texts and the practices themselves and more about who is reading, how, and to which end. As such any religion reflects the class structures of society, and can be used both to legitimate them and to critique them profoundly.

 No.1024634

Most Buddhists i know are not at all fans of the Dali Lama.
Why do westoids budhists love him so?

 No.1024643

>>1024608
cuckpilled bozo with another retarded take.>>1024629
>Zen Buddhism in particular has the problem that it is a derivation of Chinese Taoism, which, with its concept of "inaction" (wu wei) can easily be interpreted as a conservative injunction (though I disagree).
You started off (and ended ok), but that part is wrong. Zen Buddhism is not a "derivation" of Taoism. D. T. Suzuki was a supporter of Japanese imperialism and lots of Japanese soldiers were Zen Buddhists. I mean if you think we are all one consciousness, then killing someone or doing something to someone you're doing it to yourself.

You were right when you said religion is interpreted according to conditions in which it arises or is introduced.

 No.1024644

>>1024634
same reason westerners love Zelensky

 No.1024645

>>1024643
No, I mean historically Chan Buddhism is kind of a syncretism of Chinese Taoist traditions and Buddhism, so that kind of remains at its core.

 No.1024653

>>1024629
Kinda off topic but would you have any resources that you'd recommend for trying meditation? It's always something that seems like it could be good for me but my only real exposure is ads for what smells like silicon valley bullshit like the latter stuff you're talking about.

 No.1024657

File: 1655733326359.jpg (159.11 KB, 723x1024, 1654613570146.jpg)


 No.1024668

>>1024628
it's more like, i refrain from giving myself labels, by calling yourself buddhist you are subjugating yourself to some abstract form of buddhism, what is accepted as buddhism. buddhism was already liberal with how it ties up the believers, my buddhist teacher used to say you are free to do whatever and find out what do you think is worthy of implementing into your life. so in a way i am still buddhist because i integrate some of it's teachings personally but i am also not because i don't regard all of buddhism to be true. it's kinda like that, i will likely study more about buddhism because i think there are aspects that work independent of the mysticism but buddhism could become a spook like any other religion so i avoid calling myself a buddhist, or rather, stopped because i was raised as one.

>>1024634
where are you from? in my non westoid chinese diasporoid community everyone has positive views of the dalai lama. and even the rare non-chinese buddhists i encountered like the dalai lama.

 No.1024669

>>1024595
Here’s an interesting thread about Tibetan Buddhism I read a while ago.

https://nitter.net/LAZAR1NE/status/1511866696155512835#m

>Nyingma's practices & teachings were accessible to the common man, giving the avg. individual a voice within Buddhist discourses and making the concept of enlightenment attainable to them. Nyingma emphasizes PRACTICE of Vajrayana and Tantra above pure theory and wasting away studying in ivory towers & engaging in navel-gazing discourses.

>On the other hand the Gelug school is highly monastic and does not believe in making Vajrayana and Tantra rituals accessible to the ordinary layman. Gelug believes that in order to be granted permission to practice Tantra and gain proper enlightenment, one must first obtain the blessings of a council of priests, essentially a clergy. One can see how this has the potential to go wrong, and it does when the Gelug school becomes the prominent, leading faction of Tibet after obtaining that position through a scheme with a Mongol ruler.
>Mao as a matter of fact is consequentially much truer to Padmasambhava and the TRUE spirit of Vajrayana as a man of the people and a communist than any of these Gelug school hacks and the Dalai Lama are. They are corruptors of the Dharma and by putting them out of power and granting the ordinary people the power to rule themselves, an argument could be made that Mao in fact, restored the Dharma.

 No.1024678

>>1024653
Honestly you shouldn't distrust the Silicon Valley bullshit stuff like that mindfulness app that always pops up in ads, forgot the name. You can grasp meditation with that. I would instead avoid new age type of meditation quackery, the give away is if they are talking too much about chakras and energies. My advice is to try some follow along meditations since you are new, I can recommend yoga with Adriane, she has a lot of nice guided meditations. When you get more advanced you'll be able to meditate easily with just yourself, but I would also recommend learning more about buddhism practice in general, I recommend Stephen bachelor

 No.1024683

File: 1655735171101.jpg (52.87 KB, 338x500, 51LaThsbYuL.jpg)

>>1024599
tibet never received the original teaching which went from india through china (boddhidharma) and ended up in japan (dogen zenji.) tibetan esoteric buddhism is bon shamanism and sex magic. anyone with a true understanding knows they inverted everything buddhism is about. dalai shitter is nothing but a western pawn, no wonder he loves atheist materialistic marx

 No.1024684

Dropping books on buddhism because why not.

Psychoanalysis and Zen Buddhism - Erich Fromm
Good read if you are interested in both topics, both schools have a lot to compliment on each other.

 No.1024691

>>1024684
The sense of self

A great introduction to buddhism from a natural sciences prespective

 No.1024697

>>1024678
Cheers mate I'll look into it.

 No.1024699

>>1024691
Advice not given - Mark Epstein

Epstein, a therapists, goes over the eightfold path. A great fusion of psycho-therapy and buddhism

 No.1024714

>>1024653
I personally really like Kongo Roshi from the Chicago Zen Temple. His talks just click with me, and they are freely available on Northwestern University's Digital Library (you can't download them, but I just re-recorded the audio using audacity so I could listen offline). https://media.library.northwestern.edu/catalog?f%5Bcollection_ssim%5D%5B%5D=The+Dharma+Talks+of+Kongo+Langlois+Roshi

He made a general primer on meditation which I found to be tremendously helpful: https://media.library.northwestern.edu/media_objects/mg74qm21z

 No.1024716

File: 1655736762684.png (146.24 KB, 400x400, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1024718

File: 1655736844048-0.png (69.25 KB, 216x234, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1655736844048-1.png (95.76 KB, 255x198, ClipboardImage.png)

heres what buddism and the dali shitter brought to tibet

 No.1024719

File: 1655736859110.jpg (204.39 KB, 1072x676, E7MCLECVkAAAp9d.jpg)

>>1024684
>Psychoanalysis
the anti-thesis of buddhism. the zen proverb "away with books, burn them all" exists for a reason, all this corrupted knowledge, especially western dreck, leads you away from the truth. you only ever need these two texts:
1. shobogenzo
2. the diamond sutra
done? now, you must meditate

 No.1024721

lastly reincarnation is just a parrell to the prostant work ethic in the west; work forever for your master because this life is a punishment; the next life will reward you.

It entire thing is a cope and a seethe for slavery, no place in the modern era.

 No.1024724

>>1024719
You're not wrong, but it can be initially helpful and dismissed later. And though I quite like Fromm I don't think he's a very good starting point, especially since his marxist humanist views might be a bit alienating for anons here.

 No.1024726

>>1024683
Cope, buddhism is already atheistic. And not all vajra school is the same, the lama is from a different school from those with sex magic.

 No.1024730


 No.1024731

>>1024721
Though I get your point the Buddhist notions of karma and the Calvinist notions of election are quite different in form and in conclusions. Though as I argued above any religious form can be used for reactionary purposes, karma tends not to be as materialistic a doctrine as Calvin's formulation (I might be wrong on this one, I'm not all that sure about different understandings of the notion of karma, but so far as I gather it's a more of a "action-reaction" sort of thing as opposed to a "reward" scheme)

 No.1024734

File: 1655737358102.png (85.98 KB, 600x700, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1024719
>the anti-thesis of buddhism. the zen proverb "away with books, burn them all" exists for a reason, all this corrupted knowledge, especially western dreck, leads you away from the truth. you only ever need these two texts:
Based. I know exactly what you mean. It seems like all them most respected Western philosophers are just pilfering Eastern philosophy and then just padding it out with the most jargonistic sophistry. I respect brevity. Brevity indicates clarity.

 No.1024735

File: 1655737402262.png (703.17 KB, 1000x796, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1024719
sounds familiar

 No.1024736

>>1024735
nah, it's pretty damn different; one thing is censorship, another is profound distrust of the written (and spoken) word.

 No.1024737

>>1024736

*except for the person who wrote this proverb, because they are the supreme authority


yeah alright

 No.1024738

>>1024736
both is wrong

 No.1024741

>>1024736
also it sure would benefit the slave owners if no one could read

 No.1024742

>>1024737
The whole point is to distrust the master as well, since he has to use words which are inherently a problem. Now, this obviously has been abused plenty, but the point stands that they are very different ideas.

 No.1024743

>>1024741
C'mon, that's not the point here. The idea is not illiteracy, the idea is that words cannot possibly represent reality perfectly and so you shouldn't trust them.

 No.1024744

>>1024742
the point doesnt stand because in practice the teachings lead to societies and structures where 5% of 'monks' sit down and jack themselves all off for there entire lifes while the rest of society works in chains and on farms to sustain them.

I dunno chief doesnt sound like an ideal

 No.1024746

File: 1655737877282.png (131.36 KB, 1135x1003, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1024744
In Indian culture they have stages of life, with the final stage of life being retiring to be a monk/hobo basically.

 No.1024749

>>1024743
y'know there are modern theorists saying the same thing; we call them post-modernists and they are nonces + just simping for the status quo.

Not reading would be fucking great if capitalism didnt exist and we had to dismantle it; as it stands we do need to read because you can actually trust the written word, you just cant take it for gospel.

Its a narcisistic viewpoint to completely disregard all others contribution to theory, and one we can dismiss without much thought.

 No.1024751

>>1024744
The critique is fair, I'm just trying to clarify the concepts. I'm no more fond of the Buddhist structures of power than the Catholic church's pedophillic empire; but I thought that given most anons here don't really know much about Buddhism, it's helpful to try and make the ideas as clear as possible (as I can, anyway, I'm no master of the subject)

 No.1024752

>>1024746
turns out the caste system in india is also fucking horrible too

 No.1024753

>>1024752
Huh, what the fuck did that have to do with what I posted. Goddamn Westerners can't ever let any new information in, always have to defensively revert to their tropes and memes.

 No.1024755

>>1024753
keep simping for slavery you turbo nonce

 No.1024756

File: 1655738055629.png (92.27 KB, 1133x541, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1024757

>>1024755
Now it's on to pedophillia. Jesus Christ, Anglos, get a grip.

 No.1024758

>>1024756
I wonder what the life expetancy of the untouchables is

 No.1024760

>>1024757
blame the monks not me

 No.1024761

>>1024749
I do find that there can be a healthy distrust of the written word (not saying Derrida levels of critique here), but just enough so that one becomes suspicious of what one is reading, especially postmodern texts, liberal bullshit, propaganda, etc. I'm not advocating for people not to read, just pointing out that the Buddhist tradition holds that reading is not a transparent seamless vehicle for information, and as such we should always be slightly distrustful of words.

 No.1024764

>>1024761
the initial quote was advocating for burning all books; if you need to shift the goalposts this much to smash in some interpetation of what they said to appease your liberal tendancies towards religion thats on you buddy.

 No.1024765

>>1024757
I referred pedophilia strictly in regards to the Catholic church (which is well known); I'm not aware/knowledgeable of that in Buddhist places nor do I want to imply that.

>>1024764
Okay mate, I'm trying to have a helpful discussion here. No need to call me a liberal, but fuck every day I try and just talk nicely in this shitty imageboard and fuck if it doesn't feel like it's impossible sometimes. Where is the comradely spirit here, for fuck's sake.

 No.1024766

File: 1655738365600.png (2.23 MB, 957x1300, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1024668
>where are you from? in my non westoid chinese diasporoid community everyone has positive views of the dalai lama. and even the rare non-chinese buddhists i encountered like the dalai lama.
With regards to the actual Buddhists in my life I was thinking primarily of Thai Theravada Buddhists.
>>1024644
>same reason westerners love Zelensky
care to explain? This isn't a helpful analogy for anyone who isn't a zfaggot.

 No.1024768

>>1024761

I do agree we should be critically analysing texts though; but if we where actually doing that we'd be throwing 90% of buddshit teachings right where it belongs; In a pit alongside all of the slaveowners in Tibet.

 No.1024769

>>1024764
For someone who is against censorship, you sure don’t read people’s words!

 No.1024770

>>1024765
'why is a board full of mao-ists/marxist leninists who are ideologically and historically violently opposed to buddism as a super structure and slavery in general being mean to me?'

 No.1024772

>>1024769
>the zen proverb "away with books, burn them all" exists for a reason

 No.1024774

File: 1655738694731-0.png (252.9 KB, 477x480, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1655738694731-1.png (75.23 KB, 300x352, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1024772
btw this is the reason

wholesome reddit zen moment

 No.1024776

>>1024768
Indeed, I agree! Lots of Buddhist teachings belong to the trash heap of history, especially any and all that have been consistently been used to uphold terrible structures of power.

>>1024772
Not them, but it is a proverb; Buddhists don't actually burn books, it just represents the stance.

>>1024770
Mate, I'm a marxist-leninist, I'm just trying to have constructive discussions, which, an so far as I'm aware, neither Marx nor Lenin was against, even if it meant trying to see the other side. That being said I'm just gonna fuck off to >>>/edu/

 No.1024777

>>1024758
>I wonder what the life expetancy of the untouchables is
Did you forget search engines exist:
he average age of death for Dalit women is 14.6 years younger than for higher caste women
also: LIFE EXPECTANCY AT BIRTH AMONG SOCIAL AND ECONOMIC GROUPS IN INDIA
http://14.143.90.243/iips/sites/default/files/RB-13-file-for-uploading.pdf

 No.1024778

>>1024772
Imagine not being able to understand the words you are reading. The phrase just means to eliminate your reliance on text for your enlightenment.

You do realize that Buddhist China and Japan had a lot of books about anything and everything right? Like one of China’s famous epic is literally a bunch of people going to the West to copy a bunch of books to bring back.

 No.1024779

>>1024765
>I referred pedophilia strictly in regards to the Catholic church (which is well known); I'm not aware/knowledgeable of that in Buddhist places nor do I want to imply that.
I was replying to AK flag. I didn't even see where you referred to it. I'm not going to say no buddhist group has ever been involved with pedophilia. Most likely some have. It's the same way there is no need to take claim for the crimes of every group that calls themselves Marxist. Catholocism is different, because it is by definition an organization centered in the Vatican and the infallible pope. Buddhism and Hinduism are just disparate groups based off of ancient texts. There is no general responsibility among "buddhists" or "hindus" unless they belong to the same organized group.

 No.1024780

>>1024777
interesting, so most untouchables do die before they reach whatever gamer level this is

>>1024746


>>1024778

I fully understand the phrases meaning and context, it is anti-intulectual and made to diminish the role of science and by proxy uphold the power structures they inhabit.

 No.1024782

bruh this thread is full of seething westoids that cannot understand stuff outside of black and white dichotomy

 No.1024783

>>1024780
> anti-intulectual and made to diminish the role of science
Lmao what? You clearly don’t understand the context of that phrase.

 No.1024785

>>1024766
interesting, it could be that thai buddhists don't like the lama because they are the heart of buddhist orthodoxy, not even the theravada buddhists i know here dislike the dalai lama

 No.1024786

>>1024783



>bro you just need to intepret this phrase on a tuesday while the moon is bright and then completely ignore everything in the phrase and accept my bastardized verision completely removed from the orginal text bro just trust me

 No.1024791

>>1024772
> taking zen proverbs literally

You have no clue what Zen Buddhism is about mate

 No.1024793

>>1024791
why would I bother when materially it leads to slavery.

If we're to accept we should disregard all texts why the fuck should I ever consider anything a buddhist has to say?

If I dont have to take it literally I can ignore it; they will shitpost all day about apathy toward spirtuality while still flying the flag of the religion and sitting in the power structure that cements in toxic and anti-material relationships with the working class.

 No.1024796

File: 1655739784384.png (272.04 KB, 349x550, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1024793
>>1024793
>why would I bother when materially it leads to slavery.
It's about the path of liberation. Lol at this level of confusion. Your materialism leads to enslavement. These philosophies lead to liberation.

 No.1024797

>>1024791
not even that, this guy is acting as if some one liner which is arguably isnt even literal or practiced literally represent worldwide buddhism, my uygha is asoooming too much

 No.1024801

>>1024796
he's not even doing materialism properly with his shallow analysis

 No.1024803

>>1024797
Im aware tibetan 1920s buddhists =/= it as a whole.

Im also aware of how ideological power works and who benefits from the structures the religion creates.

It is a philosphy of apathy; which in turn makes it great for who ever is in power at the moment; as such its counter revolutionary.

I wouldnt care enough to ban it in my ideal but id follow marxs line 'on the jewish question'

>>1024796

where are the liberated serfs again?

marxist theory has done more to liberate people in 100 years than the shitty philosphy managed to do in 1000's.

 No.1024817

File: 1655740702410.png (709.2 KB, 720x720, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1024796
>>1024803
>where are the liberated serfs again?
>marxist theory has done more to liberate people in 100 years than the shitty philosphy managed to do in 1000's.
It's about reality, you're narrow minded. Not everyone's material conditions are able to be overcome. You can't except that there is a deeper level than material conditions. There is divinity within each person. Life circumstance doesn't equate virtue nor divinity. The existence of reality is more complex than we can comprehend. If you take the example of Jesus seriously, what does one enlightened person really change? One man with magic powers is not enough to change the structure of the world. Now this is a world of 7 billion people. I assume many Marxists or whatever revolutionaries would count "dying for the cause" as worthwhile, but can you make the comparison vs. some other life that would've resulted in greater longevity? No, nothing is that simple, it's far greater than we can understand. So as with the analogy of the fingers pointing at the moon, all we can do is point at the moon as best we can.

 No.1024820

>>1024817
I agree with the premises of this, that reality is subjective.

I disagree with the conclusion I should take the structure of buddhism at all seriously even while arriving at that conclusion.

There likely is a 'god', they have a unprouncable name and they do not care about us.

Any structure that claims to know spiritual truth therefore, from my POV can be disregarded as they have nothing interesting to say other than pure fiction.

Im not an athiest, im just taking the most logical position I can think of; which is ignorance toward it.

 No.1024903

Buddhism is pure ruling class ideology.
<heh just passively accept suffering and your fate, it's Natural (tm)
Die.

 No.1024907

>>1024903
You do realize that's not all that Buddhism is, right? As OP pointed out >>1024595, the eightfold path includes a pretty strong critique of power through the idea of "right livelihood", which makes it so one cannot live through means which are evil or destructive. It's not just passive acceptance, much like all religions born of critiques during moments of historical crisis (Christianity, Buddhism, Islam) they can be mobilized against ruling class structures just as much as they can be mobilized to prop up or even make said structures more powerful.

 No.1024909

I think what bothers me in this thread is not so much that anons don't like Buddhism and aren't willing to engage with it at any theoretical level (which is fair), but that Buddhism seems to be a monolithic "thing" that is whole and undivided. I rarely see this sort of discourse in regards to Christianity (where everyone can see that the ways in which Catholicism enforces ruling structures are profoundly different from those in Baptism or some Neopentecostal nightmare).

This way of perceiving Buddhism as a totality reeks of colonial thought, and though I'm not accusing anons here of being colonial-minded its formal structures does seem to seep in these discussions. One doesn't need to like Buddhism at all, but I feel it is profoundly counter-productive not to at the very least try to understand perspectives which are in general very alien to any westerner and thus should be regarded with caution and perhaps a bit of humility. That being said I don't actually expect any change and am just venting a bit.

 No.1024910

>>1024909
I feel the exact same way about all organized religion, spray my hot shit all over it.

We're talking about it in this thread because if you havent noticed, its about it

 No.1024913

>>1024909


>ne doesn't need to like Buddhism at all, but I feel it is profoundly counter-productive not to at the very least try to understand perspectives which are in general very alien to any westerner and thus should be regarded with caution and perhaps a bit of humility.



I've read plenty around this topic; I've even deep dived into sects like Janism looking for some fun philosophical mind excersizes.

Its not anything I havent heard explained better and in more detail in modern philosphies and I only feel so negatively toward it because its old fiction and old super structure that inherently provides no value to society other than enabling heirarchal structures.

We can do better

 No.1024914

>>1024907
Religion is only ever harmful to the working class.

 No.1024916

>>1024909
bitch westerner colonianism who do you think invaded tibet england lmao

 No.1024924

>>1024653
I haven't read any of the theory so take this with a grain of salt but a counselor of mine was a Zen Bhuddist and I think you're overthinking it if you need apps and the like just to meditate.
Find a comfy place where you can sit, set a timer on your phone or whatever so you have a goal. At first even a few minutes might be hard but you'll get better as you go
Close your eyes and try to concentrate on your physical self. People usually say to concentrate on the breath but I was also encouraged to basically mentally grope my entire body. As you're doing this, assuming you're not already the bhudda, thoughts will start coming to mind (memories, anxieties, the fact that you'd rather be shitposting on leftypol). acknowledge the thought, maybe think about why it manifested in the first place, and then gently expel it from your mind as you return focus to your breath
and that's really

 No.1024926

>>1024924(me)
*and that's it, really

 No.1024929

File: 1655748803910.jpg (67.22 KB, 465x607, Buddhism.jpg)

There's also a good reason fascists like Nietzsche and Sternberg in Mongolia admired or used Buddism.

Mongolian, Vietnamese, Chinese, Korean and Soviet communists all put the Buddhist clergy in their place with well deserved repression and execution for a reason. It promotes apathy, passive acceptance of ruling class exploitation, anti-materialism, anticommunism, and therefore must die.

 No.1024931

>>1024909
this tbh, like christian anarchism while being a christcuck thing is also progressive and that shows that religion is not a fixed thing and it is indeed not, just like any cultural phenomena. this reminds me of rightoids and communism, they assume their preconceived notion is true and is unwilling to engage further.
>>1024903
clearly haven't read anything about buddhism, being against suffering IS the core teaching of buddhism, the noble eightfold path which arguably isnt that complete or good of a teaching is literally a way to make your life better with less suffering, like op pointed out it could also be revolutionary.
>>1024913
>no value to society
you clearly dont know anything about buddhism and is just projecting western religious values into buddhism

im not even a buddhist but this level of close mindedness is insane.

 No.1024937

Imagine being such an NPC you think you're an illusion

This post brought to you by /egogang/

 No.1024947

>>1024931
Buddhism promotes suffering by telling the masses it is natural and the cure is meditation and letting go and other idealist nonsense.
>>1024940
He was an anticommunist aristocratic murderer that the Bolsheviks captured and put to death as he deserved.

 No.1024977

>>1024937
Buddhist(secular) philosophy and stirnerian egoism is more similar than you think actually. They both reject the existence of an irreducible essence, the whole being the sum of it's parts doesnt make the whole doesn't exist, just that the idea of a whole is an illusion.
>>1024973
atheism is based but the people itt just seethe because mah tool of the ruling class

 No.1024982

>>1024977
Stirner's creative nothing and Buddhist anatta are nothing alike.

 No.1024988

>>1024971
I support atheist communists executing buddhist clergy in Tibet.

 No.1024989

>>1024981
factually wrong
>>1024982
mind explaining? because while they aren't exactly the same they have glaring similarities to me

 No.1024990

File: 1655751793121.jpg (176.19 KB, 667x1024, religion.jpg)

>>1024972
Yeah sure, just like Christianity promotes love and Islam promotes peace.

 No.1024994

>>1024990
>same like islam and christianity!
horseshoe theory tier

 No.1024996

File: 1655751872340.jpg (289.09 KB, 1141x1579, 1609373423216.jpg)

>>1024991
Absolutely. Your man Sternberg was a Buddhist who thought so too, and Bolsheviks put him down like the aristocratic swine he was.

 No.1024997

>>1024931

what value other than ignorance

>>1024988

they should have killed the dali lama too

>>1024971


dont you find it problematic that tibet at the time was composed of 90% slaves?

 No.1025004

>>1025001
back to /pol/

 No.1025007

>>1025006
well thanks for demonstrating to everyone else how retarded you are, its been good.

 No.1025012

>>1024997
i dont think you should be talking about ignorance when you are ignorant about buddhism yet act as if youve spoken to the buddha hismelf

 No.1025014

>>1024989
Simple, they're using "nothing" in different ways. Buddhism uses it to mean the self fundamentally does not exist, that everything we think of as the subjective self is a transitory illusion which, if studied closely, turns out to not actually be real. Stirner uses "nothing" to mean an illimitable (and indescribable through words) creative potential. Stirner's self is real, it's just too expansive to be accurately described through human labels. The labels applied to the self may be illusions, but the self underlying them is not.
>but not all buddhists say the self doesn't exist
Well a majority I've interacted with seem to think so so that's who I'm arguing with here.

 No.1025019

>>1025012

bro ive smoked dmt and the buddah told me to tell you to suck my balls

 No.1025021

File: 1655752382880.jpg (42.3 KB, 541x600, 1651851614918.jpg)

>>1024992
Communists have no commandment saying "thou shalt not kill".

 No.1025033

>>1025026
The communist world will be real, whereas when you die you're just going into the oblivion of non-existence like all other godtards.

 No.1025036

>"You see anons, religion can actually be very progressive! Marxism and religion are totally compatible with each other!
<Criticize said religion at a
>"Muh gorillion, muh Bolsheviks, muh colonizers, muh nation! Fuck materialism, y-your the slaves!!!!
I don't always agree with Leninhat, but this thread validates him in more then a few ways.

 No.1025039

>>1025035
Prove your magic man exists.
The bourgeoisie don't believe in god, they just know it's a lie, and that's why communists gas clergy.

 No.1025042

>>1025036
Im the one defending progressive religion, im not the one arguing with leninhat with cia tier arguments

 No.1025045

>>1025026
>tons of lit documenting Vietnamese pagodas of cloistered monks feasting while peasants starved
>Tibetan slaves for the Dalai Lama

Yeah. Sounds like organized religion alright. I'm not against using theology to connect with religious people towards a more class consciousness, but don't peddle that shit here to non-believers and expect to not get ridiculed.

 No.1025046

>>1025043
Where was god when your clergy were being flayed alive by Bolsheviks?

 No.1025047

>>1025039
Sky daddy doesnt exist but its not an excuse to slaughter people unless theyre the one doing it first, tbh.

 No.1025049

>>1025035
NTA, but assuming all of reality is just matter interacting in different ways, then it's by far the safest assumption as it has the least number of assumptions to make. And even if some metaphysical "soul" exists, it's something you will never experience, as the sensation of experiencing something is a thing restricted to your senses in existant reality. A "soul" can never be you, as to be "you" is conditional to the material interactions of this reality.

 No.1025050

>>1025046
receiving them into Heaven

 No.1025052

>>1025014
Ah ok, so its not me youre arguing with, fair enough. I still think anatta and stirner is reconcilable.

 No.1025053

>>1025052
well its not

 No.1025054

>>1024683
This is true, the Bon also use a left swastika as part of their practice. Much of tibetan buddhism also has these shamanistic practices like exorcism etc. It really is the most brainlet kind of buddhismb

 No.1025058

For the record, I'm
>>1025014
not
>>1025053
this anon so any further shitflinging ITT isn't on me.

 No.1025059

File: 1655753163570.jpg (161.04 KB, 1280x720, 1652528166705-2.jpg)

>>1025051
Everywhere.

 No.1025060

>>1025053
Which not?

 No.1025062

>>1025058
I see, alright

 No.1025063

>>1025047
>Sky daddy doesnt exist but its not an excuse to slaughter people unless theyre the one doing it first, tbh.
NTA again, but while that's nice and all, that's not how politics practically plays out. In a scenario where your opposition maintains itself as an oppositional force, but is otherwise defenseless in relation to the monopoly on violence, there is really no reason not to kill them off. Why keep them at all? If they concede, thats arguably fine, but if they don't, keeping them around serves no purpose.

 No.1025064

>>1025060
anatta and stirner is not reconcilable

 No.1025073

atheism has reached a logical dead end, modern atheists are just rehashing Decarte and Hume which have been responded to for hundreds of years already
Buddhism offers what atheism cannot

 No.1025075

>>1025073
Buddhism is literally atheistic

 No.1025076

>>1025026
>Sure, you think that future utopia justifies anything, as in ends justify the means,
Every consiquential political bloc wholly accepts any means to aquire their given ends when the chips are on the table. Any which doesn't is subsumed or killed off by those who do. Surely there were some liberals who recoiled at the idea of genocide during the cold war. But when push came to shove, they were more then willing to permit it if their interests were met.
>so a bunch of psychopaths kill people. How many people have you killed?
Political killing isn't inherently an act committed by psychopaths. Psychopaths CNA very well participate in it, but that act in of itself isn't in the domain of just psychopaths.

 No.1025077

>>1025074
>What does atheism offer? Like some code to leave by that doesn't include made up God?
self contradictory world view
>>1025075
no

 No.1025078

File: 1655753644336.webm (3.26 MB, 854x480, 1628411690466.webm)

>>1025050
lol sure, if that's how they wish to comfort themselves.

 No.1025086

>>1025080
This
I don't know why people are so quick to defend the atrocities of a failed state. The Soviet Union achieved nothing but creating a global cargo cult among those that never lived in it.

 No.1025090

File: 1655754174552-0.jpg (101.81 KB, 553x830, religion8.jpg)

File: 1655754174552-1.jpg (316.54 KB, 1024x1377, religion2.jpg)

>>1025080
By ensuring communism succeeds by our own hands, certainly not by praying to a non-existent god for salvation.

 No.1025095

>>1025073
>atheism has reached a logical dead end, modern atheists are just rehashing Decarte and Hume which have been responded to for hundreds of years already
Huh? This doesn't make any sense at all, Descartes provides the idealist argument for God, while Hume asserts his existence but remain extremely sceptical of all of our assertions of it, questioning if it is even possible to make any accurate assertion of it.
>Buddhism offers what atheism cannot
Like what? Something being preferable or comfortable to accept does not make it true. If the conclusions of something which is true lead to a damned existence, then so be it. Better we accept that and get it out of the way then later. Not to say I believe that though.

 No.1025100

>>1025081
>I like the idea of American founding fathers of non intervention.
The "founding fathers" weren't non-interventionist in the slightest, they actively operated and opposed their oppositional enemies.
>Does that make killing ok?
Depends on the context. In some circumstances, it may be in the interest of a political bloc. In others, not so nuch.
>Are you killing people
No.

 No.1025102

>>1025090
how is the belief that communism isn't "non existent" any different from the belief that God isn't "non existent"

 No.1025105

>>1025095
>Huh? This doesn't make any sense at all, Descartes provides the idealist argument for God, while Hume asserts his existence but remain extremely sceptical of all of our assertions of it, questioning if it is even possible to make any accurate assertion of it.
what are you confused about
>Like what? Something being preferable or comfortable to accept does not make it true. If the conclusions of something which is true lead to a damned existence, then so be it. Better we accept that and get it out of the way then later. Not to say I believe that though.
that isn't buddhism though

 No.1025113

>>1025102
Socialism has already existed, and was widely demeaned as communism, and socialism is just lower stage communism.

 No.1025120

>>1025113
so its over now?

 No.1025128

File: 1655755307186.jpg (186.16 KB, 1280x858, 1654363117777.jpg)

>>1025120
Only just begun.

 No.1025129

>>1025109
>I still think they build the best country.
Nah.
>You sound like a neocon. You define yourself good, and your killing just.
That's literally politics. Everyone does this, because why would you act if you didn't at first think you were correct in doing so? State condoned executions occur every day, and are committed in through institutions and laws which are viewed as "just". My "just" may differ from my oppositions views of what is "just", but we still both carrybthem both to their eventual ends.
>Maybe think about this
I have, maybe you should think more deeply about what politics itself entails.

 No.1025132

>>1025105
>what are you confused about
Why you brought up Hume and Decartes in respect to the arguments made by atheists.
>that isn't buddhism though
What isn't Buddhism?

 No.1025137

>>1025086
>I don't know why people are so quick to defend the atrocities of a failed state.
What atrocities?
>The Soviet Union achieved nothing but creating a global cargo cult among those that never lived in it.
The Soviet Union took a collection of backwards agrarian states and progressed them light-years ahead of what they would ever be permitted to the powers that dominated them.

 No.1025151

>>1025148
Demonstrably worse off than if communists were still in power. Somebody post the graph of Russian lifespan before and after Soviet collapse.

 No.1025153

>>1025148
>Right, right. How are those states doing, again?
After the reintroduction of capitalism? Pretty bad.

 No.1025155

>>1025132
>Why you brought up Hume and Decartes in respect to the arguments made by atheists.
yes
>What isn't Buddhism?
everything outside of the dharma

 No.1025164

>>1025155
>yes
Yes what?
>everything outside of the dharma
No, what in what I stated "wasn't Buddhism".

 No.1025170

>>1025164
>No, what in what I stated "wasn't Buddhism".
burden of proof is on you. just because you make some random shit up doesn't mean i sudden have to debunk you

 No.1025192

>>1025170
>burden of proof is on you. just because you make some random shit up doesn't mean i sudden have to debunk you
What are you even talking about? Are you a bot? What even are these responses?

 No.1025344

>>1025192
spunds likle you can't prove your retarded claims

 No.1025441

>>1025344
>spunds likle you can't prove your retarded claims
Which claims are you even talking about?

 No.1025482

Another religion thread, though I agree there has been too much focus on Christianity as the only exemplar of religion. While I can't agree with the fundamental tenet of buddhism (the whole no-self thing) I can't deny that their way of understanding ethics without self or some kind of code of law is admirable. (i.e., there is no fundamental difference between "my" suffering and another's since there is no ultimate self, much like there is no ultimate difference between a pain in the stomach and a pain in the leg. If we cannot divide up suffering between one and others so cleanly, but we still want to be rid of suffering, then what stops us from addressing others' suffering just as we do our own?) Santideva's Guide to the Bodhissatva's Way of Life, I think

 No.1025726

>>1024731
reincarnation is based in your present day actions, if you where a good slave you got to not be a slave in the next life under buddhist tibet.

same with the west the the prossy work ethic; if you dont go into a factory and work your entire life you dont get to goto heaven.

They have slightly different conclusions and minute detail but they both are accomplishing the same thing; free slave labour provided to you by the dumbasses you just convinced your fiction as being reality.

 No.1025731

>>1024609
>reconfigured
Lol

 No.1025887

>>1025719
yes, real material gains for people; not ignorance leading to blindness that the false promises religous structures give to the weak.

 No.1025894

File: 1655829684612.mp4 (13.8 MB, 1280x720, the wagie cage.mp4)

>>1025726
Serfie, serfie get in the greeny

 No.1025899

>>1025441
you're making things up at this point

 No.1025913

>>1025482
it's not the fundamental tenet, the Four Noble Truths are
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/NobleStrategy/Section0014.html

also I highly recommend this essay on Buddhist Romanticism to recognize the Westernized Buddhism in the future
https://www.dhammatalks.org/books/PurityOfHeart/Section0009.html

 No.1025918

>>1024653
> any resources that you'd recommend for trying meditation
With Each & Every Breath book is the best place to start
https://www.dhammatalks.org/ebook_index.html#eachandeverybreath

a few guided meditations audios from the author:
https://www.dhammatalks.org/mp3_guidedMed_index.html

 No.1026223

File: 1655843748722.jpg (138.73 KB, 620x900, Buddhism2.jpg)

>>1025719

 No.1026224

File: 1655843773246.jpg (70.34 KB, 671x960, 1624095384579.jpg)


 No.1026260

File: 1655845713156.jpg (219.63 KB, 1320x660, 1588522678306.jpg)


 No.1026278

>>1026260
Religion has never been liberatory.

 No.1026289

File: 1655847469760.jpg (55.64 KB, 620x350, 1481148454233.jpg)

>>1026278
The Buddha did it

 No.1026306

>>1025899
Making what up?

 No.1026313

>>1026224
I need a freakishly giant asian lady

 No.1026315

>>1026306
are you really not able to follow a conversastion?
this
<Something being preferable or comfortable to accept does not make it true. If the conclusions of something which is true lead to a damned existence, then so be it. Better we accept that and get it out of the way then later. Not to say I believe that though

 No.1026322

>>1025482
> (the whole no-self thing)
Take enough psychedelics and you start to realize it might be the one thing they had a point about.

 No.1026345

>>1026315
<Something being preferable or comfortable to accept does not make it true. If the conclusions of something which is true lead to a damned existence, then so be it. Better we accept that and get it out of the way then later. Not to say I believe that though
What about this was "made up"?

 No.1026375

>>1026345
>What about this was "made up"?
the whole thing

 No.1026376

>>1026375
>the whole thing
Explain.

 No.1026407

>>1026278
Buddhism is literally based on liberation from suffering through a human effort

 No.1026411

>>1026407
Sounds a flase kind of liberation then if it simply works to change perception and outlook rather then conditions.

 No.1026412

>>1026376
you're babbling incoherently in regards to Buddhism

 No.1026416

>>1026411
that isn't what buddhism teaches though

 No.1026422

>>1026412
>you're babbling incoherently in regards to Buddhism
How? All I stated was that something being preferable or comfortable to accept does not equal it being true. Your meme present aethism as improper because of it's implied "conclusions" which lead to personal anguish. But even if this were true, so what? I'd take an anguish filled reality and the truth there in over some false antidote to it.

 No.1026425

>>1026422
none of that has anything to do with Buddhism though

 No.1026448

>>1026425
>none of that has anything to do with Buddhism though
How? From my understanding, Buddhism is about escaping cycles by death and rebirth by letting go of our personal desire for the impermanent things of thr impermanent material world. That sounds like a completely false antidote to our condition.

 No.1026465

>>1026448
ok but what you just described isn't what you've been saying at all

 No.1026474

>>1026465
there is no way you aren't an ai

 No.1026509

>>1026474
is this what you normally do when your bullshit is called out?

 No.1026789

>>1026322
Will do one day, though I generally have not experienced ego death and am stuck in the Cartesian hell of always being self conscious or some shit

And even if it worked I would probably be in denial since I would still maintain that there is some perceiver or some place where all these sensations are coming to, so I doubt I would really think of it as ego death, maybe something more like self dissipation

 No.1026797

>>1026789
>Will do one day, though I generally have not experienced ego death
Smoke Salvia. Don't listen to the people that said Salvia freaks them out. They weren't ready for ego death.

 No.1026919

>>1026465
>ok but what you just described isn't what you've been saying at all
Except it is. My response was in regards to the meme, and in regards to what it implied, which was that Buddhism is the solution to our condition not necessarily because it is correct, but because it allegedly leads to a situation where the person is in less anguish. I then went on about how this does not validate Buddhism, and how anguish resulting from truthful knowledge is preferable to a false antidote.
>>1026509
>is this what you normally do when your bullshit is called out?
Not me, and the vast majority of your responses have nonsense that doesn't match what was said. The Decartes and Hume bit is the best example of this. So it's absolutely so surprise that the accusation pops up that you're a bot, because you type and respond like a bot.

 No.1026922

>>1026789
>christian cursing
Larper detected

 No.1026924

>>1026797
Very true
Ego death is supposed to be painful and insanity inducing

 No.1026968

>>1026278
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalit_Buddhist_movement

>The movement was launched in 1956 by Ambedkar when nearly half a million Dalits – formerly untouchables – joined him and converted to Navayana Buddhism. It rejected Hinduism, challenged the caste system in India and promoted the rights of the Dalit community.

 No.1027018

>>1024595
a potentially good state religion

 No.1027026

can someone xplain to me, a DAOISM chad, why buddhism is superior
it seems like inferior pagan delusions, comparatively

 No.1027027

>>1027026
Nothing is superior or inferior anon, that's just a way you fictionalise differences. That is something you can learn from buddhism

 No.1027037

Obsolete ideology
Good for its time but Communism is clearly superior

 No.1027068

>>1027027
oh ok thanks, fuck buddhism
there's nothing to learn from it if someone doesn't give me a useful buddhist wisdom in the next 30 minutes

 No.1027131

>"Once we have received the completed body we are aware of it all the time we await extinction. Is it not sad how we and other things go on stroking or jostling each other, in a race ahead like a gallop which nothing can stop? How can we fail to regret that we labour all our lives without seeing success, wear ourselves out with toil in ignorance of where we shall end? What what use is it for man to say that he will not die, since when the body dissolves the heart dissolves with it? How can we not call this a supreme regret? Is man's life really as stupid as this? Or is it that I am the only stupid one, and there are others are not so stupid? "

buddhism is practically communist, repent AK and leninhat

 No.1027135

>>1027131
<"The greatest goodwill is cruel,

>The greatest honesty does not make itself awkward,


<The greatest courage does not spoil for a fight."


Lenin could have said this

 No.1027173

>>1027131
>guys puritans where basically communists because they called for public ownership of land and free rights of men

>puritans go on to genocide native america



turns out without theory you can arrive at commununist-lite conclusions; once you get there however you cant do anything because the foundations of it are bad faith.


The foundations of communinist thought are much more solid; and as such have been able to build up socities worth living in.

Your religion/spiritulity in practice has chained people to the floor and deserves to be left with all aberhamic religions. In the past; just like all the dead sciences and philosphies prior too it.

 No.1027176

like most religious nutjobs its literally pointless arguing anything with you however because you're so cognivetally biased into your stupid sky religion that all points previously made likely went straight through you.

 No.1027676

>>1026448
you can be absolutely miserable in good material conditions if your mind's habits are fucked up and produce suffering for yourself

Buddhism is not against improving the material conditions btw, compassion and generosity are key parts of the practice

 No.1027913

>>1026289
The Buddha did nothing but lie like every other religious snake oil salesman from Jesus to Muhammad to modern televangelists.

 No.1027914

>>1027913
proof?

 No.1027915

>>1026919
>which was that Buddhism is the solution to our condition not necessarily because it is correct, but because it allegedly leads to a situation where the person is in less anguish. I then went on about how this does not validate Buddhism, and how anguish resulting from truthful knowledge is preferable to a false antidote
again this doesn't have much to do with buddhism

 No.1029614

>>1027913
eh, compared to "every other religion", Buddhism is super easy to try out in practice and you don't have to die to check if the core teaching is true

I tried, it works better than anything

 No.1029624

>>1027915
>again this doesn't have much to do with buddhism
It has to do with the meme.

 No.1029629

>>1029614
>I tried, it works better than anything
What an sterile utilitarian view of religion. At this point, are you even following a religion anymore, or just opportunistically hopping on something to aquire a given end. Why not just strip it of everything you find to have utility, incorporate it, and then discard and destroy the thing you took them from?

 No.1029635

>>1029624
so something fake
2/10

 No.1029693

>>1029635
Just like Buddhism lol

 No.1029703

>>1024678
Read McMindfullness and don't buy any meditation grift courses from extremely reactionary neocons or conmen like Sam Harris.

 No.1030033

File: 1656056006769.jpg (86.23 KB, 1280x720, maxresdefault(31).jpg)

>>1029629
>What an sterile utilitarian view of religion. At this point, are you even following a religion anymore, or just opportunistically hopping on something to aquire a given end.
That's exactly it. It's not a cult like christianity(any forms that jive with me at least.) It's a science or a philosophy. It is trying to be the best description of reality possible and give you the best wisdom to live your life.
>Why not just strip it of everything you find to have utility, incorporate it, and then discard and destroy the thing you took them from?
That is what I do. I don't know what you mean by discard and destroy. Seems like you are emotionally charged on the issue.

Hinduism I know but

 No.1030088

>>1030033
>>1029629
I think the Dalai lama quote is very relevant here
"Do not try to use what you learn from Buddhism to be a Buddhist; use it to be a better whatever-you-already-are.”

 No.1031444

>>1030033
>That's exactly it. It's not a cult like christianity(any forms that jive with me at least.)
How is it not a cult? Creating a hierarchy of monks of which you abide by the teachings of in order to achieve spiritual fulfillment sounds like a cult to me.
>It's a science or a philosophy.
In what way is it a science?
>It is trying to be the best description of reality possible and give you the best wisdom to live your life.
How is it the best description of reality when it contains within it no materialist analysis of reality? Why should I accept it's "wisdom" over all others? Because of "suffering"? What if I am content with the bittersweet feelings that come with desire and loss? Why should I place "true happiness" over necessary action based on principle?
>That is what I do. I don't know what you mean by discard and destroy. Seems like you are emotionally charged on the issue.
I have my own principles which are at odds with it, but of course when break anything down there are emotions and sentiments that lie under. It's not exactly an argument. When I say discard and destroy, I mean to discard and destroy Buddhism as a whole while taking whatever "wisdom" you like, which was never Buddhisms in the first place but instead alienated aspects of people that they could already possess without it.
>>1030088
>"Do not try to use what you learn from Buddhism to be a Buddhist; use it to be a better whatever-you-already-are.”
Then why tolerate Buddhism at all? Just reduce it to personal values people can have, and then dissolve "Buddhism" as a thing.

 No.1032336

File: 1656119748570.jpg (274.45 KB, 1248x587, thetenbulls.jpg)

>>1031444
Materialism blabla. A communist can never understand Buddhism for he thinks mountains are mountains and waters are waters. Only once your mind starts looking for the bull, will you be able to start understanding Buddhism. Politics is infinitesimally small, totally insignificant, no eternal, spiritual truths are to be found in them. Ever. A thread on Buddhism on a communist board is utterly pointless.

Pic related, the famous Ten Bulls. Anyone believing in materialism hasnt even started looking for the bull: a literal single-celled organism in terms of spirituality.

 No.1032348

Comrades, there is no contradiction between Buddhism and Dialectical Materialism!

https://thesanghakommune.org/

 No.1032365

>>1032336
Maybe read about diamat before making these claims. Don't trust anyone that simply says "materialism". Read marx.

 No.1032485

>>1032336
Shut the fuck up you psued.

 No.1032495

>>1032336
>Only once your mind starts looking for the bull
I think I found it.

 No.1033084

>>1031444
Buddhism is not necessarily hierarchical, the many schools of Buddhism are very distinct from each other so generalisation is disingenuous.

>Then why tolerate Buddhism at all? Just reduce it to personal values people can have, and then dissolve "Buddhism" as a thing.


You can say the same of any philosophy, why have stoicism or anything else. It's useful for communication, the mistake is to over identify with the terms and labels, and that's exactly what Buddhist teachings explain.

 No.1033098

>>1024595
>>1024599
>>1024600
>>1024601
>>1024608
>>1024609
>>1024611
>>1024612
>>1024615
>>1024623
>>1024625
>>1024628
>>1024629
>>1024634
>>1024657
>>1024683
>>1024716
>>1024719
>>1024734
>>1024766
>>1024779
I have no positions on Buddhism or really any religion, however I will say I see way more Churches and religious orgs around my city helping people than Marxist orgs doing so, in fact, so far it’s a flat 0.0% of Marxist organizations I see making a positive change in even a single person’s life, whereas every Church I know of at least runs a food program

 No.1033103

>1033098
(you)

 No.1033105

>>1033103
Thanks for the (You) anon!

 No.1033115

>>1033105
There is no such thing as a static self, you are process that's why you are human BEING. Thus, the yous your fellow board members gift you are not yours, since there is no such thing as you apart from the you in this moment, every other you is an illusion. The rush of pride in receiving (you)s is a product of the ego, of pride, let it go anon. Breathe in deep and let it go

 No.1033118

>>1033115
I feel that nigha

 No.1033598

File: 1656171818384.png (35.3 KB, 270x247, stirner-3.png)

>>1033115
>since there is no such thing as you apart from the you in this moment,
based and stirner pilled

 No.1033796

Buddhism, like any religion, no matter how peaceful or socialist seeming it may be, will always be reactionary because it is rooted in idealism, and not materialism. Placing any trust in one is like trying to steady yourself by leaning on your other hand.

 No.1033811

I like the part of Buddhism where if you see the guy they tell you to worship on the road, you have to kill him.
That’s nice.

 No.1034042

>>1033796
Buddhism is neither Idealist nor Materialist. Buddha solved this eternal riddle some 2500 years ago, the riddle that Western thought has been stuck in forever: faith (destiny) vs free will/materialism vs idealism. The answer is only in the present moment can we be free.
Two rival soldiers meeting on the battlefield will have to kill each other, it is faith, but if I were to convince my rival of the freedom we have, we could both stay alive. Yes, it is unlikely that it will play out this way, thats why we have to take the right action all the time so karma (war in this case) doesnt bite us in the ass. Lao Tzu has a beautiful poem where he shows to have the same level of understanding as The Buddha: "if you dont change direction, you may end up where you are headed."
You wont find more wisdom in fewer words. Western philosophy has no wisdom, only knowledge. Wisdom comes from experience. Knowledge comes from thinking. Buddhism is ACTION in the PRESENT moment. Burn all books!!!! And thus, you must meditate.

 No.1034091

>>1024683
Dogen was a cuck cultist caodong school wannabe plagiarist who knew little of Zen. Peep some actually good texts like the Blue Cliff record or Instant Zen if you actually want to "study" Zen.

 No.1034098

>>1032336
In looking for the bull you have already failed.
"In my school, there are only two kinds of sickness. One is to go looking for a donkey riding on the donkey. The other is to be unwilling to dismount once having mounted the donkey." -Foyan

 No.1034286

>>1032336
>Materialism blabla. A communist can never understand Buddhism for he thinks mountains are mountains and waters are waters. Only once your mind starts looking for the bull, will you be able to start understanding Buddhism.
<Understanding muh "true nature"
Nah.
>Politics is infinitesimally small, totally insignificant, no eternal, spiritual truths are to be found in them.
Politics deals with question of the organization of the monopoly of violence that constitutes the states and the realtions which make it up. It's fundamentally important to our existence as a society, and there is not reason I should give a shit about completely unsubstantiated and unknowable "eternal truths" that we are not in any state to grasp yet.
>Ever. A thread on Buddhism on a communist board is utterly pointless.
Cool.
>Pic related, the famous Ten Bulls. Anyone believing in materialism hasnt even started looking for the bull: a literal single-celled organism in terms of spirituality.
Explain how reality isn't just the various interactions of matter.

 No.1034309

>>1029614
Why would you want to "try" any religion? They're all based on lies.
<oh not mine, my god and revealed truth is da real one!

 No.1034427

>>1033084
>Buddhism is not necessarily hierarchical, the many schools of Buddhism are very distinct from each other so generalisation is disingenuous.
You can say this about literally any religion.
>You can say the same of any philosophy, why have stoicism or anything else.
Buddhism, as it is practiced in the world, is a lot more then just a philosophy. Most philosophies do not have their practitioners creating temples and requesting their toleration as such by the state.
>It's useful for communication, the mistake is to over identify with the terms and labels, and that's exactly what Buddhist teachings explain.
The terms and labels matter in the actual existing world where organizations and institutions exist, and where such things run at odds with a centralized state.

 No.1034435

>>1033098
>I have no positions on Buddhism or really any religion, however I will say I see way more Churches and religious orgs around my city helping people than Marxist orgs doing so, in fact, so far it’s a flat 0.0% of Marxist organizations I see making a positive change in even a single person’s life, whereas every Church I know of at least runs a food program
<Religious institutions have more resources and members then Marxist organizations, and so can have more "charity" programs operating at a goven time, as opposed to Marxists whose numbers are low and resources limited in any given western city
Also, Marxist organizations do this shit all the time when they can, but it isn't a solution and generally does nothing.

 No.1039613

>>1034309
to end the suffering in the case of Buddhism

can't see any lie there if it works as promised


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