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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1655932544157.png (2.85 MB, 1200x1604, Gonzalo_Enhanced_Large.png)

 No.1027996[Last 50 Posts]

I can understand finding positives in the likes of Mao and even Stalin but I can't fathom defending and admiring a monster like Guzman. In my view, he is a terrorist who massacred and oppressed the working-class he claimed to represent. He was just as bad, if not worse, than Fujimori. What positives could you possibly see in him.

 No.1027999

idk, it's hard to get objective information, it's all filter through westoid glow media

 No.1028003

>>1027996
>My source? Wikipedia, of course.

 No.1028013

Fun fact the surname Guzman has visigoth origin and literally means "good man"

 No.1028018

>>1028013
got'em

 No.1028020

>>1028013
Oh so it's accurate

 No.1028021

>>1028003
The SP themselves have admitted to the various acts of terror they comitted

 No.1028025

>>1028021
The CPSU also committed "acts of terror".

 No.1028028

>>1028021
Under duress? What was the setting? Idk a lot about SP am genuinely curious

 No.1028030

MONSTER

TERRORIST

MASSACRE

OPPRESS

>worse than Fujimori

tell me more mr langley

 No.1028031

>>1028013
tfw no Maoist Visigoth daddy

 No.1028035


 No.1028036

>>1028030
It's true though. At best he was equal

 No.1028037

>>1028036
Lmao go back to CTH

 No.1028038

>>1028037
Explain why you disagree using your words

 No.1028042

>>1028037
>le other website boogeyman
i don't agree with OP, i just hate this kneejerk shit people do. for all you know a lot of "CTH" people would agree iwth you.

 No.1028045

>>1028035
In the face of reactionary military actions and the use of mesnadas, we responded with a devastating action: Lucanamarca. Neither they nor we have forgotten it, to be sure, because they got an answer that they didn't imagine possible. More than 80 were annihilated, that is the truth. And we say openly that there were excesses, as was analyzed in 1983. But everything in life has two aspects. Our task was to deal a devastating blow in order to put them in check, to make them understand that it was not going to be so easy. On some occasions, like that one, it was the Central Leadership itself that planned the action and gave instructions. That's how it was. In that case, the principal thing is that we dealt them a devastating blow, and we checked them and they understood that they were dealing with a different kind of people's fighters, that we weren't the same as those they had fought before. This is what they understood.

-gonzalo

 No.1028048

>>1028038
>for all you know a lot of "CTH" people would agree iwth you.
No, because their base amounts to disgraced socdems.
>>1028038
I have already countered every "argument" you've made so far.
>>1028045
And now explain how killing armed counterrevolutionaries (peasant mercenaries) during the escalation of a revolutionary war is bad for a communist party using Marxist arguments, Go.

 No.1028049

>>1028048
This isn't what happened

You should look up what Lucanamarca was

 No.1028051

>>1028038
The various reactionary governments Guzman fought against, including Fujimori, were American backed, drug dealing , torturing, rapists, many of whom were connected to committed Nazis, and they committed genocidal activities like the forced sterilisation of hundreds of thousands of indigenous women.

They are imperialist dogs just like all the other imperialist dogs acting in tandem with the CIA as part of Operation Condor. They killed a disappeared thousands.

While the Shining Path conducted a civil war and many brutal acts, this was a wartime, even then, the war time figures show the Peruvian government killed many more people, then fudged the numbers to make it look the other way.

Peru had a long history of its peasants fighting against colonialists and neo colonialists, if you look back through the history, Guzman is actually far and away the most successful of these.

While Fujimori was genociding the population, Shining Path provided defence from that to many communities, as well as providing them with education, healthcare, and so on.

So you see mr glowing agent, you are incorrect

 No.1028053

>>1028048
A person who would defend mao and Stalin then think Gonzalo was a disgrace wouldn't be a socdem

Characterizing someone who fits this as CTH which you describe as socdem doesn't make sense.

 No.1028055

>>1028049
that is what happened, you should. It is literally in the source you gave, them describing it being exactly that.

The armed reactionary peasants were also directly trained by the CIA btw, they were fascist paramilitary organisations

 No.1028056

>>1028055
>It is literally in the source you gave, them describing it being exactly that.

I posted that to show Gonzalo admitting the amount they killed and that they were culprits of it not to say his characterization of it is accurate

Again go look up what Lucanamarca was. Take your time

 No.1028061

>>1028056
Oh believe me, I've looked, you are simply in denial. As Guzman says, there excesses, as there always is in war. That village was a stronghold for reactionary paramilitaries, I don't care what montesinosappreciatordaily.elgin says about it

 No.1028062

>>1028056
>>1028051
also, respond to this post

 No.1028064

>>1028056
You're talking to two people contradicting your bullshit btw

 No.1028065

>>1028056
Bourgeois-instigated counterrevolutions under the cloak of being for liberal notions of "freedom" from socialist "oppression" have been in the toolbox of reactionaries ever since Kronstadt, what they claim their revolt was for is irrelevant in the face of their true intent.

 No.1028068

I see Gonzalo has been rehabilitated here now

 No.1028070

>>1028068
this website is getting more schizo every day

 No.1028071

>>1028068
No he has not, there is just a bunch of retards who like him

 No.1028072

>>1028068
It only took me to scrutinize bourgeois think tank sources like I did for reading about Soviet and Chinese revolutionary history and actually engage with the material from the "forbidden" side for the picture to clear up. Also video footage does a lot too, as the documentary above provides: >>1028020

 No.1028073


 No.1028074

>>1028051
still no response to any of this then

Anti Gonzalite sterilisation enthusiasts at it again.

Actually existing Malthusians

 No.1028076

>>1028073
>BadEmpanada
Remember that this guy supported the Hong Kong riots.

 No.1028077

>>1027996
Guzman is late stage communism ideology when it becomes cult-like and a religion. It happens to all ideas given enough time.

 No.1028080

>>1028076
Why anyone should care about the feelings of Dengoid China is beyond me. If civilians want to burn some cop cars I won't be crying about it. Christ, even if you love Deng you should admit that the purpose of the police is to ensure that the exploitative market that was put in place can continue without a hitch.

 No.1028082

>>1028025
I don't think the cpsu boiled babies

 No.1028083

>>1028077
Nah, it was a noted mistake that led to his capture. the Revolutionary Internationalist Movement, which was the Maoist International of that time, identified and criticized the CPC-SL's concept of 'jefetura', which is this corruption of the central leadership to the voice of one man. The actually existing people's wars today, led by the CPP in the Philippines and CPI(Maoist) in India, in fact have collective leadership as a result of utilizing dialectical materialism and learning from the mistakes.

 No.1028084

>>1028082
the shining path did not boil babies

>>1028051
still no response to this and they keep posting lmao

 No.1028085

>>1028082
And Stalin killed 5 people when he noticed they stopped clapping after 30 minutes of applause.

 No.1028087

>>1028084
yes they throwed boiling water insted

 No.1028091

>>1028087
an excess as referenced by Guzman.

>>1028051
respond to this post please

 No.1028095

>>1028087
At armed counterrevolutionary mercenaries? Funny that you cry about that.

 No.1028100

>>1028085
Is this a joke retard? There's videos of him getting angry that people won't stop clapping so much because they love him

 No.1028103

>>1028095
Famous counter revolutionary toddlers and babies

 No.1028104

It's because the glowing path was unironically bad.

 No.1028105

>>1028103
Gonna try finding out whether or not that was the case or?

 No.1028106

>>1028100
He's mocking you for being a dupe to all the standard bourgeois smears of PCP-SL by referencing a standard anticommunist smear of the USSR/Stalin.

 No.1028108


 No.1028109

>>1028108
Already read it, since before this thread. Says nothing of it. But now this time you'll supply the source for them "boiling babies" right?

 No.1028110

>>1028037
90% chance the Hexbear tards would shill for Guzman too

 No.1028113

Shining Path was CIA, prove me wrong

 No.1028115

>>1028083
>Noted mistake
Tell that to the cultists itt

 No.1028117

>>1028045
Lucanamarca was tragic, but it was ultimately necessary. I like Gonzalo, but modern Maoists treat him like a cult figure (I think that's mostly a first world Maoist thing though).

 No.1028118

I'm gonna get a PhD in some field unrelated to Latin American studies and publish books on the Shining Path. If I ever get heckled by some crakkker Limeño I'm gonna ask them to name one crime that Abimael Guzmán ever perpetrated.

 No.1028121


 No.1028126

>>1028113
how about you post any proof at all, and no not just that one ELN guy saying he had a hunch

 No.1028128

>>1028051
still not responding 5th try.

I will not you said:

>>1028038
a direct question, after the general question in the OP.

I have given you the longest answer to your question, in all the responses here, covering various reasons for my thinking, stating different historical factors, and you have just completely ignored it.

It is beyond a mistake I've pointed it out 4 times, you are not here in good faith, you simply don't want to engage with any viewpoints outside your own, even if information is provided to you.

This my friend, is the principle reasons you are not a smart gonzalo appreciator, but a slovenly little liberal slob. A slob and snob to boot. A most unbecoming combination. if this is you, a male, in the prime of your life. Shame on you my man. Shame

 No.1028132

>>1028068
as he should

 No.1028152

After some months of silence from gonzaloids they crawl back from ther fbi.gov
And it reads like the last one, some part of me doesn't even want to bother
>Terrorist
<What terrorism?
>Lucanamarca for example
<Just an excess lol, you are a fujimorist for questioning the almighty fourth sword of marxism, guarantee of thriumpf and the greatest marxist alive yesterday
>They boiled children
<No, they just killed them and throw boiling water to them
>>1027996
He said what he aimed to do, and it ended up reemphazised the death of the left in Peru for 30 years, served as launchpad of neoliberalism and all the vices that follow it and marked the death of communism in Peru. Ask any peruvian online if you doubt me.
>>1028068
Although some gonzaloids wish it. Always make them answer
Do you think that he signed the peace accords with Fujimori and Montesinos?
And remind them that they are a bunch of cultists.

 No.1028183

>>1028152
1. A lib made slander and so it was dealt with.
2. Lucanamarca was revolutionary terror, excessive or not, and nobody denied this
3. no babies had boiling water thrown at them and you still cannot provide a single source on this because you're a clown
4.
>He said what he aimed to do, and it ended up reemphazised the death of the left in Peru for 30 years
Blame US-sponsored bourgeois state genocidal repression of a the workers of Peru all you want, you've picked the wrong side in the class struggle and have shown your ass.
>served as launchpad of neoliberalism and all the vices that follow it
LMAO you just mixed Peru up with Chile!
>Do you think that he signed the peace accords with Fujimori and Montesinos?
Irrelevant, as Jefetura was already criticized earlier in the thread here: >>1028083 . Most of the Maoist movement today does not follow this organizational method (neither the CPI(Maoist) or CPP do, they have collective leadership) and the few that do follow it ("Gonzaloists"/"Principally Maoist") are minuscule with no influence.

 No.1028203

File: 1655944740068.jpg (123.64 KB, 656x453, boiling.jpg)

>>1028183
>A lib made slander and so it was dealt with.
>Then says proudly that it was terror, just revolutionary one, the kind that gets you expelled from towns and makes the peasantry hug the army.
And don't make you remember how after September 1992 how quickly the house of cards fell.
And of course in this enter again: the peace accords.
>The babies weren't thrown boiling water
<Pic since video with subs is lost to me, expect, nooo its the CVR so it isn't validdd
<Check that he outmanouvering in his words that 18 children and babies were killed
>While you blame capitalism, I "chad" stand for Gonzalo
>You mixed Peru and Chile!
In reaction to whom the people gathered around Vargas Llosa and later Fujimori.
<Thread about Gonzalo
<Doeesn't want to answer about the peace accords.

 No.1028209

File: 1655945012402.jpg (9.99 KB, 236x236, 1622489470132.jpg)

>>1028203
>baby
>13

 No.1028210


 No.1028214

>>1028210
>Moving the goalpost

 No.1028223

>>1028214
>Girl talk about how they axed his 13 year old brother
Then goes:
>They didn't tie up the children [little ones]
>But they threw boiling water at them
<Gonzaloid implies this is moving the goalpost

 No.1028229

>>1028203
1. Who's being interviewed?
2. By whom?
3. They said this in front of a camera and that is evidence?
4. Was the 13 y/o boy armed and recruited by the ronderos (anti-communist rich peasant mercenary force)? Why else did the ebil Senderos feel it necessary to administer force?

 No.1028230

>>1028229
Its a fabrication by the Peruvian fascist state to exonerate themselves and place the blame entirely on the shoulder of the PCP as well as inflate the numbers to make them seem like cartoon monsters. A more recent study, which is in no ways connected to the PCP or anything, shows their estimated numbers are wildly inflated, and are simply state propaganda: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2053168018820375

 No.1028231

>>1028229
As an act of terror against the village?
How the fuck is this even a question?
Militant groups regularly murder children as an intimidation tactic and brutal method of reprisal, they literally always have in all eras, you think it’s impossible now because the people you decided are the good guys did?
Literal child

 No.1028234

>>1028051
Still no response, sixth try
>boil baby boil baby boil baby boil
They’ve reverted to NPC programming.

They literally do no have any other talking point

 No.1028236


 No.1028237

>>1028230
Thank you. I don't know why people here can look past propaganda about the USSR or China or any other socialist project, but then when the Shining Path is mentioned, they become unhinged and regurgitate fascist lies.

 No.1028241

>>1028230
>The numbers don't match
>This means that Lucanamarca didn't happen
Fucking hell, repliying to cultists like you only serve to make others anon aware of the obvious bullshit you spew.
>>1028231
>Tfw comparing that the CVR says that 69 died against Gonzalo who bragged about 80 dead is Fujimorist propaganda.
For the non-gonzaloite anons:
>Two days after an intense search for his relatives in different parts of the highlands of Lucanamarca, Don Antonio Quincho discovered this chilling scene in his home:
>…with his hands and feet tied, even the braids coming out of the ladies, to those who had cut them with an ax, knife, pickaxe, had even poured hot water on them…they found the children burned, their little hands, little faces,…the newborn children had had their guts pulled out and their heads stepped on until they came out his brains…).

 No.1028244

>>1028241
I’ve said already in this thread, there were excesses, there were excesses in all communist movements.

It is a regrettable circumstance in the fighting of imperialism.

Do you blame Palestinians if their rockets kill Israeli children?

Obviously not.

You are just a mindless sectarian, that’s all it is. You excuse anything from various people but just not Gonzalo because you have a strange hate Boner for this guy

 No.1028245

i should bullshit a new form of "marxist" thought and completely indulge myself because there will always be retards to defend that kind of people

 No.1028253

>>1028244
>Dismembering children and infants in a murderous rampage = Palestinian missiles killing civilians and kids as collateral damage
>Slaughtering children with your bare hands, stomping out an infant’s brain (these are poor peasants, mind you, even if you’re deranged enough to justify this to bourgeois people’s children) is uh just a “revolutionary excess”
Bullets really are too good for people like you

 No.1028254

File: 1655947109561.jpg (19.38 KB, 450x250, sowwy.jpg)

>>1028244
>There were excess
It's like the "Sorry by the capitalist pigs, is just a phrase to feel like you said something.
>Compares the SP to the palestinian struggle
Daring today aren't we?
Their struggles are as similar as a donkey from a monkey. Don't cling on them to justify your cult.
>No, YOU are the sectarian
Of course, against cultists who claim to follow the "guarantee of victory"

And still no answer about the "irrelevant" peace accords.

 No.1028259

File: 1655947586115.jpg (41.58 KB, 500x500, 1655764102341.jpg)

>>1028244
>I’ve said already in this thread, there were excesses, there were excesses in all communist movements.
Excesses don't involve throwing boiling water at innocent children and mistreating indigenous communities who don't offer them "tribute".
>It is a regrettable circumstance in the fighting of imperialism.
<he says this while Gonzalo makes no expressions of Regret.
>Do you blame Palestinians if their rockets kill Israeli children?
The process of rockets killing Israeli children is part of collatoral damage- these rockets aren't made to target children outright, wheras these dog-cunts looked at children and infants and said "yeah, nah I think I'll slice and dice 'em"

>you're just a mindless secretarian

This isn't an attack on maoists as a whole though, this is against Gonzalo.

 No.1028261

>>1028076
>NOOOOO they did something I disagree with so they must be wrong on all accounts NOOOOOO
Yeah, and Paul Cockshott has dumb takes on trans people, doesn't mean I don't respect him as an economist.

 No.1028271

>>1028253
What part of, it is a mistake and all movements make mistakes and do bad things do you people not understand? Look around things leftist movements across Latin America have done. FARC/ ELN have done plenty of bad things.

>>1028254
> Their struggles are as similar as a donkey from a monkey.
Their struggles were both against US comprador client states, they are extremely comparable. Even if the OP of this thread prefers the US client state.

and I haven’t said anything about peace accords and have asked 6 times for answer to a post which came long before yours. Now 7

> Excesses don't involve throwing boiling water at innocent children

>>1028259
Yeh I guess incinerating them or trapping them beneath rubble or whatever else is much much better

>>1028261
> >NOOOOO they did something I disagree with so they must be wrong on all accounts NOOOOOO

 No.1028272

>>1028271
>Dismembering children is “just a mistake”
Like I said, bullets are too good for you gonzaloid fucks

 No.1028274

>>1028271
>>1028272
geniunely, how far gone must you be to justify the wanton murder of children?

 No.1028276

>>1028272
>>1028274
I don’t defend it, I just said it was a mistake. A mistake which took place in the context of a struggle against a violent fascist state that did much worse

 No.1028277

>revolution is literally perfect all the time if it’s not I’ll scream and scream and scream

 No.1028279

British state was actually correct because the IRA did some bad things

 No.1028283

>revolution is and will mean deliberately going into peasant farms and killing children and babies
>Terminally bothsidist
Gonzaloids reaally like to make everyone believe there were no other leftwing or communist parties at the time.
Who didn't went into psychofeudal remembrance to show who is boss.
Really shows what kind of people are around those groups.

 No.1028284

>>1028051
>The various reactionary governments Guzman fought against, including Fujimori, were American backed, drug dealing , torturing, rapists, many of whom were connected to committed Nazis, and they committed genocidal activities like the forced sterilisation of hundreds of thousands of indigenous women.

1. Gusanoman did not fight against anyone. He was a fat intellectual fuck who LARPed as a jungle warrior, but actually stayed in Lima all the time because of some vague disease that he had claimed to have that somehow prohibits him from rural living. This is why him and nearly the entire leadership were arrested in Lima (imagine being a guerilla leader and hiding in the fucking capital city in an apartment).

2. American-backed governments? The Shining Path bombed the Soviet, Chinese and Cuban embassies respectively. Great job, CIAcuck.

>They are imperialist dogs

You're gonna hang those too?

>Peru had a long history of its peasants fighting against colonialists and neo colonialists, if you look back through the history, Guzman is actually far and away the most successful of these.

The Shining Path has been fucking irrelevant for 3 decades (since the aforementioned raid in Lima). The Shining Path doesn't even exist anymore, its only lifeline are vague online posts about some splinter organization that may or may not be active right now with just a few members.

Gonzaloism is entirely a glow-op. Notice how half of you retards only followed this shit once Gonzalo finally croaked. Notice how most of you retards are Western LARPers who have never even set a step inside jungles. Gonzaloism barely even exists, that's why you have to cling on to other movements (like peasants in Brazil organizing) and act like they are your people.

Gonzaloism is a cult, a psyop and above all a sign of mental retardation. Gonzalo has 0 (zero) contributions to theory - no, "summarizing Mao" is not a novel theory, and no, protracted's people's war is not universal.

Fuck Gonzalo's rotten corpse and fuck you too.

 No.1028285

6 decades of "protracted people's war" and Gonzaloids couldn't even control a patch of jungle for any significant time, let alone build a functioning state.

Left-communism has the appeal of purity (no true scotsman).
Marxist-Leninism has the appeal of historic success.
What appeal does Gonzaloism have?

 No.1028288

>>1028271
>Yeh I guess incinerating them or trapping them beneath rubble or whatever else is much much better
Not an argument. There's a difference between children dying as a result of collatoral damage and a child being deliberately targeted, picked out and chopped/ boiled alive. It's the difference between the IRA blowing up a boat to kill Lord Mountbatten and members of the Royal Family, The Bolsheviks killing the Tsar and his family, and the needless slaughter of peasant children who had little to no inheritance of political power. I despise the fact children died, but in this case those children were royals and nobles- it's certainly not a tasteful tactic, but it does more to legitimise the revolution by targetting individuals as opposed to comitting an unwanten massacre of powerless peasants.

>NOOOOO they did something I disagree with so they must be wrong on all accounts NOOOOOO

What are you trying to say?
>>1028277
>>1028279
>this much of a leap in logic.

 No.1028290

>>1028285
The same appeal the lost cause of the South has
>Yes well the shit we did would be somehow justifiable if we won which we didn’t :)
>>1028277
Sometimes I think
People like this deserve a family member dying to violence
Not to say your family deserves harm
But westernoids that are flippant about massacres of children, regardless of their politics, have not experienced the suffering they deserve

 No.1028296

File: 1655950398249.gif (837.87 KB, 200x190, 1505043981319.gif)

>>1028290
Spare your bloodlust for the fascists, comrade. Western Gonzaloids are a pack of feckless losers who've YET to do anything of import, save post here and on obscure fbi.gov communities.

 No.1028299

>>1028283
Hahahaha, oh yes, and how much of an organising did the Tupac Gang have?

Or perhaps a nice friendly socdem?

>>1028284
>criticising a party leader for no the fighting at the front as if that isn’t perfectly normal
>even when pointing out he was sick.
I will note you also do not crit Xi for not being in the PLA, or Putin for personally chopping Ukrops.

>oh no they bombed the Chinese embassy while they were fighting with the CIA against the Soviet Union


>oh no they bombed the Soviet Embassy with the revisionists in charge who sold it off from the top.


Cuban embassy, a mistake again, however at the time it looked like Cuba was going the way of the late USSR so understandable.

>glow op

Post any proof any day now

>irrelevant for 3 decades

>can’t control a patch of land blah blah
Yes they were defeated, still the most successful guerrilla movement in the countries history and one of the most successful in Latin America.

Nobody here crits guerrillas in El Salvador btw. You might want to look into them. But you probably have not.

>>1028288
It is an argument. You are basing your entire conception of the shining path on an isolated incident of over zealous violence carried out by a few people, during by the way what was the most violent period in the last 50 years in Latin America, against a village that was a stronghold for the perpetrators of said CIA violence.

Get another talking point for the love of god

> What are you trying to say?

What I Green texted is exactly what you are doing

>>1028290
It’s no more flippant than all of these people would be talking about Ukrainians or whatever, but this isn’t one of their pet causes their Twitter people tell them to like

 No.1028302

>>1028296
People either willing to murder children or flippantly pass off such a barbaric act get my lust for violence faster than anyone else
These people more or less act to lessen the distance between communists and fascists and the fact that they’re usually cushy westerners makes it even more repulsive

 No.1028305

>>1028302
>you’re being so violent it’s making me violent
At least I am honest about this exact same impulse we are both having, although mine is directed at CIA juntas and yours is directed against communists so don’t get uppity with me

 No.1028308

>>1028305
>All violence is the same
No, slaughtering children is not the same, those that would deserve the most medieval cruelty visited upon them
>At least I direct my violence towards
What? CIA agent infants you scumfuck?
I don’t give a fuck what you call yourself rat, your beliefs don’t mean a damn fucking thing to me, what separates yourself from a fascist aren’t your fucking worthless words but your actions, if you’d hack apart a child with a machete I’d put a bullet in you as fast as I’d put one in an SS officer, and I’d expect any other actual communist to do the same

When the only thing separating you from murderous bandits is your specific political cult, congratulations, you’re just a fucking bandit gang with a gimmick

 No.1028316

>>1028299
>Cuban embassy, a mistake again, however at the time it looked like Cuba was going the way of the late USSR so understandable.
lmfao

 No.1028331

>>1028299
>It is an argument.
No it's not you drooling dog-cunt drongo. An argument is a statement backed with evidence, you on the other hand are just throwing around rhetoric and thinking that the example of collatoral damage caused by a rocket and a targeted attack done at innocent children is anywhere comparable. You just brush off evidence and shout slogans of "muh CIA" without backing it up argumentatively, and cower when counter evidence is provided.

>You are basing your entire conception of the shining path on an isolated incident of over zealous violence carried out by a few people, during by the way what was the most violent period in the last 50 years in Latin America, against a village that was a stronghold for the perpetrators of said CIA violence.

Except this isn't what I'm arguing at all. If you read my previous arguments (hard for you to do, I know), you'd notice that I also mentioned they mistreated indigenous communities, communities mind you, which were not part of the CIA and hardly had any state presence, save for the occiasonal anti-narcotics police who would come in and BRUTALISE THEM. They had no landlords, and for the most part, lived communally. When the shining path arrived, they put a halt to gatherings and parties around indigenous celebrations, prevented peasants from leaving without permission and feasted off the land while offering nothing in return save for this racketeering under a red flag. They even went out of their way to kill local leaders who DARED to criticise them. You're telling me those indigenous communities were CIA backed? Fuck off.

And Again, how the fuck were 18 children under the age of 10 CIA agents? The victims also consisted of the elderly and women (some of who were pregnant) and their targets were far from armed combatants. So again, how are these CIA agents?

https://youtu.be/OHqJDs3OuhQ?t=1768
29:28

>Get another talking point for the love of god

You first.


>>1028302
I get it, But come on, half these guys are fucking losers who won't do anything of import in the revolution, say bitch about it online. Why waste serious time and energy on these douchebags unless you want to change their minds or prove them wrong or at least laugh at their incompetency.

 No.1028336

>>1028331
I know, it’s just
I work with kids
It disturbs me to my core when I encounter people that can justify such animalistic and depraved actions

 No.1028340

>>1028336
I've worked with kids too. But here's the difference between a child and a gonzaloid, one of them eventually grows up.

 No.1028343

File: 1655952762831.gif (2.15 MB, 344x236, 1653207572331.gif)

>>1028245
>in this video essay, I will explain why Alexander the Great established AES in the meditteranean.

 No.1028345

>>1028343
Unironically Haz but swap Alexander for Genghis Khan

 No.1028352

>I can understand finding positives in the likes of Mao and even Stalin
We've got ourselves a liberal here

 No.1028355

leftism will forever be about molesting long putrefact corpses huh

 No.1028361

you dont even have to be a gonzalite to have a positive opinion of him. Can people in this thread not distinguish between revolutionary violence and reactionary violence? The absolute scorn people throw at Gonzalo probably turned around and praise the FARC for supporting the next 'left' president who will bring even more terror to the population than Gonzalo ever has
>>1028308
You've depoliticized your own beliefs. Do you think children cant carry guns or hide suicide bombs? This is literally QAnon's rhetoric using a front of 'saving the children' for reactionary politics and its pretty clear that you prefer the regular violence of imperialism in Peru rather than the revolutionary violence needed to overthrow the government

 No.1028363

>>1028361
>its pretty clear that you prefer the regular violence of imperialism in Peru rather than the revolutionary violence needed to overthrow the government
deranged post

 No.1028364

"those kids were wearing bomb vests and deserved to get machete'd" is the gonzaloist "that black man was going to attack me" that amerikkkan cops pull

 No.1028369

>>1028361
>revolutionary violence vs reactionary violence
There’s pretty much no difference when you’re hacking apart kids with a machete because the village pissed you off

Nobody gives a fuck what exists in your soul

> Do you think children cant carry guns or hide suicide bombs?

Infants don’t care guns you deranged fuck
> you prefer the regular violence of imperialism in Peru rather than the revolutionary violence needed to overthrow the government
I prefer child murderers be shot in the fucking skull whether they wave a red flag or wear a brown shirt

 No.1028370

Coming up next on leftypol: vehemently defending the Japanese "revolutionaries" who took civilians hostage and ended up killing each other in way too literal self-crit sessions.

 No.1028372

>>1027996
>In my view, he is a terrorist who massacred and oppressed the working-class he claimed to represent. He was just as bad, if not worse, than Fujimori.
Help me mention 1 "crime" he had possibly done during his lifetime, especially when he leads the Shining Path.

 No.1028373

>>1028361
>>1028369
And note, slaughtering children, telling indigenous people to join your bandit troop or die, massacring entire peasant villages, and nailing people’s dogs to lampposts didn’t “succeed”, in fact it made everyone despise bloodthirsty gonzaloite fucks because they were for all intents and purposes no different than the regular army
>abut what about what they believed in!?
Nobody gives a fuck what you believe in when you’ve executed their family for being in the wrong village wt the wrong time

 No.1028374

>>1028364
The kids were Tankie/Dengist/Putinist/Revisionists/Marcyte campists who needed to get chopped up in pieces for the glory of the global PPW that shall lead proles on the Shinning Path of communism, 🤪!

 No.1028375

>>1028363
It's not deranged. These people see violence the same no matter whats committed such as this liberal response >>1028369 which makes violence against certain types of people ontologically bad,. This serves liberalism since violence of the revolutionary group will be highlighted by the media and be quickly condemned, while normal violence is excused. Notice how theres no class analysis in the post.

Can anyone give actual marxist criticism thats not based on morality? The only one in the thread so far is 'jefetura'

 No.1028377

>>1028375
>Can anyone give actual marxist criticism thats not based on morality?
lol ever read… any marxist essay or book against individual terrorism?

 No.1028378

>>1028373
obviously they were popular given they had increased support after Lucanamarca
>>1028373
Nobody here believes in violence for violence sake and Gonzalo does not endorse it. There is only concrete analysis of the situation and whether the application of violence was correct or not. Every revolutionary group deals with this so its weird that you're singling out Gonzalo unless you support 'peaceful' politics

 No.1028379

you think chopping up children and blowing up random civilians is bad? wow nice try CIA

 No.1028381

File: 1655955062858.gif (2.68 MB, 200x150, 222.gif)

>>1028361
>Can people in this thread not distinguish between revolutionary violence and reactionary violence?
How is killing innocent children with no political connections, and opressing indigenous communities revolutionary violence.

>You've depoliticized your own beliefs. Do you think children cant carry guns or hide suicide bombs?

Point to me how this was a tactic used by the opposition on the PRC? Where did they do this? Oh right, THEY DIDNT

 No.1028383

>>1028375
>You cannot justify in your mind dismembering children
<This serves liberals because…
And shit like this makes it childishly easy to turn the majority of people against communists even if they make their way past ideology and propaganda

>Finally start interacting with communists

<Quickly run into gonzaloids who will go on frothing rants about how your unwillingness to kill a child with your barehands is one form of liberalism, your unwillingness to justify your “comrades” killing children before massacring an entire peasant village following the “convert or die” method of revolution is the other form of liberalism

 No.1028385

>>1028377
Yes, the criticism is that they werent violent enough and didnt have enough preparation for the complete overthrow of the state.
You can also read Benjamin's Critique of Violence

 No.1028386

>>1028385
>the criticism is that they werent violent enough
ah yes thats the most agreed on point on individual terrorism by marxists, you sound well read

 No.1028387

File: 1655955227122.jpg (14 KB, 182x227, 78c.jpg)

>>1028375
>Can anyone give actual marxist criticism thats not based on morality?
1. This is bullshit, because taking an anti-moralist stance is a moralist stance. None of you are free from morality.

2. How does killing innocent children and opressing indigenous people aid with the spread of communism? These only further alienate the proleteriat, rob us of future revolutionaries and doesn't allow the plurality of the people to contribute to the building of socialism.

Is that "Marxist" enough for you?

 No.1028390

>>1028378
>It’s so weird you’re pointing out the only communist group notable for dismembering children, throwing boiling water on infants, and slaughtering entire villages of peasants and indigenous people they claimed to “support” if they didn’t fight for them after they took their food and supplies
<Really it is so crazy you’re singling out the communist group that just killed a fuckton of people in gruesome ways and didn’t make life better for anyone and was defeated since the masses despised them as just another vicious occupying bandit army

<<It is so insane that you won’t support the struggle of Democratic Kampuchea, imagine my fucking shock

 No.1028391

And I thought dengoids sucked ass.

 No.1028393

>>1028381
*sorry meant shining path.

 No.1028394

>>1028381
I reject the premise that they were oppressing indigenous communities. You can also read any account of warfare in the middle east to know that using children or elderly as weapons is an actual tactic
>>1028383
>And shit like this makes it childishly easy to turn the majority of people against communists even if they make their way past ideology and propaganda

You're liberalism has shown. Who cares about the opinions of the majority of people? Communists seek to overthrow state power and establish socialism with the proletariat as the leader. Identifying who can be friends or enemies is what a revolutionary does, if the majority of the population are reactionaries than they will never go to socialism and we would need to pacify and isolate these elements.

 No.1028395

File: 1655955395142.jpg (170.29 KB, 615x644, 1653591101563.jpg)

>>1028391
This is the state of 21st century online MLism.
it doesn't get any better from here on in

 No.1028399

>>1028394
> Who cares about the opinions of the majority of people?
Read Mao on the mass line, you retarded psycopath.

 No.1028400

>>1028387
You've made no class analysis or stuck to objective facts. It's already proven in this thread that the Shining Path did not alienate the proletariat and that it required the fascist state and full backing of the US to shut it down.

 No.1028401

The only communist I give a fuck about is Lenin.

 No.1028402

>>1028394
>The child murderer also wants to suppress the majority of the population
And this is why you never hesitate to put a bullet in anyone that would justify child murder (other than the obvious reasons)
>Uhm but you’re doing a liberalism by killing me for my actions
I would scrawl “liberalism” on to the bullets too
Couldn’t care less about whatever excrement leads you to justify the most barbarous actions
Unironically no different than an SS officer saying how he murdered children to make sure all the jews are gone, arguments that only make sense to the mentally deranged and thus incurable

 No.1028404

>>1028399
the Shining Path made use of the mass line which was why it was so popular. Does nobody know even the basic facts of the Peruvian revolution?

 No.1028405

File: 1655955616112.jpg (52.03 KB, 468x571, 1646007188646.jpg)

>>1028394
>I reject the premise that they were oppressing indigenous communities.
Despite the evidence shown here with the argument and time-stamped video
>but it's BadEmpanada
1. Don't care
2. Poisoning the well fallacy
3. You're a cultist.
>>1028331

>You can also read any account of warfare in the middle east to know that using children or elderly as weapons is an actual tactic.

But this is Peru we are talking about, not the middle east. Show to me where children were used as bombs as a means to destroy the shining path.

 No.1028406

>>1028395
Shit like this is why I stopped seeing myself as ML
When dengoids are unironically some of the best western MLs have to offer, purely for having a concrete political vision and an unwavering commitment to not be fucking psychopaths we are very clearly fucked

The only worthwhile MLs, as far as I know, live in GS nations and fucking Russia

 No.1028410

SS officer
>I torched children with my flame thrower to finally free the Aryan people in our struggle against the jew!
US marine
>I drove my knife into the heart of an Afghan child because his father was a terrorist and later on I found a knife in the boy’s back pocket, he may have been a child, but he was a puppet, and died for freedom
Gonzaloid
>I hacked apart the village children with my machete because they were simply pawns of the imperialist reaction that had made its way into this village, sometimes you must execute the people in your quest to liberate them!

 No.1028412

>>1028400
>You've made no class analysis or stuck to objective facts.
You're just making up the definition of words and shifting the goal posts now. The objective facts were provided here, which show that they DID in fact alienate the proleteriat and oppress indigenous people.
>>1028331

>but the community he attacked was affiliated with LE CIA and LE state

Ding Dong, you're wrong.
https://youtu.be/OHqJDs3OuhQ?t=2792

 No.1028414

>>1028405
I dont particularly care about propaganda, the exact same claims are made against the bolsheviks and chinese revolutionaries. In fact Albania completely banned religious worship. Wheres the attack against Hoxha for oppressing the Albanian culture? Most proletarian movements do suppress reactionary culture so the accusation is irrelevant.

also I love how the anti-Maoist basically have no explanation for why the Shining Path became so popular, i guess they think that peasants like being oppressed? Or is it because they had a genuine interest in supporting the Shining Path

 No.1028417

>>1028404
>the Shining Path made use of the mass line
The mass line posits that the communist party should serve, listen to and hear from the masses. The SP subjugated the masses to the will of the party. It's the complete opposite of what Mao wrote.
>why it was so popular
already proven wrong multiple times itt
>Does nobody know even the basic facts of the Peruvian revolution?
Gonzaloists certainly don't.

 No.1028418

>>1028414
>Propaganda when you run out of arguments to justify killing kids
>Liberalism when you can shit a few more edgy arguments out

 No.1028419

>>1028410
The former is systematic that happens every day while the latter is revolutionary violence that seeks the end of the former violence. You're literally acting like a child now. Please read Lenin or Mao.

 No.1028420

>>1028414
>Popular
<Method used is literally join us, join the army, or organize yourselves and try fighting both us and the army, and we will both kill every last one of you in the most gruesome way imaginable
<“””””””Popular””””””””
Damn nigha
Them post-Gaddafi warlords in Libya are pretty popular too, ya know?

 No.1028421


 No.1028422

File: 1655956347040.gif (2.11 MB, 200x150, 1647857547181.gif)

>>1028414
>I dont particularly care about propaganda, the exact same claims are made against the bolsheviks and chinese revolutionaries.
Eye witness testimony and actual documents showing the targets of the shining path weren't CIA affiliated is propaganda now?

>In fact Albania completely banned religious worship. Wheres the attack against Hoxha for oppressing the Albanian culture?

<muh whataboutism
We're not talking about Hoxha and his Sigurimi you dropkick, we're talking about the shining path.

>Most proletarian movements do suppress reactionary culture so the accusation is irrelevant.

In what way, shape or form were the victims of Lucanamarca and the indigenous communities "reactionary"?

>also I love how the anti-Maoist basically have no explanation for why the Shining Path became so popular, i guess they think that peasants like being oppressed?

Then why are they so unpopular now? It's almost as if they committed mass atrocities and fell from favour of the overall proleteriat.

>Or is it because they had a genuine interest in supporting the Shining Path

As the evidence I provided showed, they initially did before the Shining Path revealed itself to be a racketeering operation with a red flag.

 No.1028426

>>1028419
>Capitalism kills more kids systemically which actually justifies dismembering children myself
<Unironically the same sort of arguments serial killers make when justifying their own actions

> You're literally acting like a child now.

The only people I’ve ever seen that justify killing children are literal teenagers and homicidal adults on the internet
> Please read Lenin or Mao.
Please quote me the part when they write about dismembering peasants and effectively torturing the children
Or the part where they recommend demanding peasants join you or be executed
Or the part where “revolutionary excesses” includes massacres of entire villages of poor people

 No.1028429

File: 1655956924900.jpg (31.72 KB, 320x320, 1648441293156.jpg)

>>1028419
>communism is when you kill innocent peasants and children with no affiliation with political power or the state
t. Lenin

>the more innocent children you kill via machettes, the more anti-CIA you are.

t. Mao

 No.1028431

Quiz time for Gonzaloists!

Explain, in detail, the difference between Gonzaloids in the woods responding to the death of one comrade with slaughter of an entire village, including the women in children, via bladed weapons to instill terror, and Azovcels doing the exact same over an Azovcel dying

Hard mode:
Explain the actual difference without discussing how you and the Azovcel have different beliefs so it makes your actions actually different see

Reminds me of the notable army that explicitly stated, by law, that the death of one German soldier = death of an entire village as a terror method :)

 No.1028434

>>1028422
You cant make a judgment of actions post-hoc and then completely disavow the entire group. The shining path nor I accused them of being CIA-affiliated. They thought that they represented a reactionary wing of the peasantry (ronderos) and did what they thought was best. You can say it was a wrong judgment but you are condemning the entire group from a jdugement made in 1983 to disregard the next decade. You still have to explain why they grew in popularity despite 'alienating' the masses with one event.

I mentioned Hoxha since it's directly relevant to the idea that suppressing culture is inherently reactionary, it is not. You have to make a judgement of whether it's reactionary or not and it's clear people decided to support the culture of the shining path, you can even see it in the prison riots that were controlled by the Shining Path

>Then why are they so unpopular now? It's almost as if they committed mass atrocities and fell from favour of the overall proleteriat.


or they were completely suppressed by the state, military and the US. I actually believe you're a reactionary now if you think that fear of violence from the state is actually evidence that the masses disliked the Shining Path. They're also not a 'racketeering' operation, equivalent to accusations against Columbian or Nicaraguan revolutionaries that they were trafficking drugs.

You also havent stated the casual mechanism to explain why the Shining Path fell in popularity. The line was clearly right given their populairty, what changed in their line that led them to losing the masses support and what material circumstances changed that they were unable to update their line with. You have to actually be serious about using Marxism as a science to make revolution.

>>1028426
>>1028429
>"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another." - Mao

"We must not depict socialism as if socialists will bring it to us on a plate all nicely dressed. That will never happen. Not a single problem of the class struggle has ever been solved in history except by violence. When violence is exercised by the working people, by the mass of exploited against the exploiters — then we are for it!" - Lenin

I have no idea why I waste time with people who arent serious with Marxism

 No.1028439

>>1028434
> They thought that they represented a reactionary wing of the peasantry (ronderos) and did what they thought was best. You can say it was a wrong judgment but you are condemning the entire group from a jdugement made in 1983 to disregard the next decade
You absolutely can condemn people when their “wrong judgement call” is to slaughter an entire fucking village, what the fuck, this isn’t like picking the wrong crop to plant

Shit like this is why gonzaloids get the fucking wall in my book, that shit will never change, fuck this Pol Pot tier disgusting ultra leftist psycho shit

 No.1028442

>>1028431
You have not distinguished between Revolutionary and Reactionary violence. Millions of people die from hunger, starvation, trafficking, genocide, colonialism, and fascists every day. To die for a revolution that seeks to overthrow the current order is worth a million more times the deaths of thousands of fascists.

Go back to Church, Marxism isnt for you if you cant stomach it.

 No.1028443

I see what happens with Gonzalo fans from reading this thread is they believe nearly all the claims against Marxist movements or middle east groups or violent claims then they run into those circles of people and think "oh boy oh boy they support group that i heard did x bad thing so they have to support these horrendous things and violence i do and if they don't I'll ask them why this group they liked was claimed to do x bad thing to try to convince them that violence is good and we need to do it no matter what"

 No.1028444

>>1028442
Why don’t you explain the difference to the children Gonzalo had dismembered?
>You don’t have the stomach for Marxism
No, I don’t have the stomach for teenagers and serial killer scum
Nobody gives a fuck what you claim to believe in when you’re bashing a child’s head into a wall, I don’t care what you claim to believe in, I don’t give a fuck if we’re in the same party or even the same fucking unit; if you did try it and I was there, I would shoot you where you stand and leave you where you lie

 No.1028445

File: 1655957956633.jpg (3.38 KB, 193x182, 1639788304381-2.jpg)

>>1028434
>You cant make a judgment of actions post-hoc and then completely disavow the entire group. The shining path nor I accused them of being CIA-affiliated. They thought that they represented a reactionary wing of the peasantry (ronderos) and did what they thought was best.

Except they treated what they did as entirely justified and expressed no remorse, nor did they say that what they did was wrong, but rather "was an excess". People such as Ho Chi Minh, Abdullah Ocalan AND EVEN FUCKING GADAFFI actually made efforts to recompensate and denounce these excesses of revolutionary violence.

>You can say it was a wrong judgment but you are condemning the entire group from a jdugement made in 1983 to disregard the next decade. You still have to explain why they grew in popularity despite 'alienating' the masses with one event.

Except it wasn't just ONE event, as I explained, they opressed indigenous communities by killing their leaders, stealing their food while offering nothing in return, banned indigenous festivals and ceremonies and any criticism of them was met with either death threats or with death itself.

>I mentioned Hoxha since it's directly relevant to the idea that suppressing culture is inherently reactionary, it is not. You have to make a judgement of whether it's reactionary or not and it's clear people decided to support the culture of the shining path

Until they didn't. And again, they initially did before the Shining Path started racketeering them.

>you can even see it in the prison riots that were controlled by the Shining Path.

Are those prison riots active NOW? Are the people of Peru actively supportive of the Shining Path?

>"A revolution is not a dinner party, or writing an essay, or painting a picture, or doing embroidery; it cannot be so refined, so leisurely and gentle, so temperate, kind, courteous, restrained and magnanimous. A revolution is an insurrection, an act of violence by which one class overthrows another." - Mao

>"We must not depict socialism as if socialists will bring it to us on a plate all nicely dressed. That will never happen. Not a single problem of the class struggle has ever been solved in history except by violence. When violence is exercised by the working people, by the mass of exploited against the exploiters — then we are for it!" - Lenin

So how is killing peasants and children via machette attacks who have no ties to government or the state a revolutionary act? At least the violent actions of Mao and Lenin amounted to the establishment of two socialist republics, and the towns, villages and cities they occupied with their military forces a massive step up to what they had before. Simultanouesly, the committe of the USSR went out of its way to dismantle the cheka and the NKVD due to their abuse of power and took accountability- Gonzalo did not.

>I have no idea why I waste time with people who arent serious with Marxism

<Look Ma, I'm projecting!

 No.1028447

>>1028444
>>1028443
This is the world we live in when you're enemies will do the harshest repression against you. Your personal feelings mean exactly shit, the exact same worth as the people who do not want to die from imperialism and do say anyway

 No.1028448

>>1028442
>To die for a revolution that seeks to overthrow the current order is worth a million more times the deaths of thousands of fascists.
New development in Gonzalist theory: Indigenous Peasants are fascists.

 No.1028449

Even this maoist guy who is definitely not against violence admits gonzaloids killed infants

https://blacklikemao.medium.com/on-boiling-babies-combating-bourgeois-and-dogmato-revisionist-myths-about-the-communist-party-1bdb5a366ad6

 No.1028450

>>1028447
You are my enemy, as far as I am concerned, so you can get a bullet the same as a soldier or a fascist can
>Fascists would murder children, so you just do the same
No
Never
If you would lower yourself to the lowest of the low, fascist scum, imperialist scum, you deserve to die just like they do

You pepper your own justifications for atrocities with moralism while in the next tongue decrying moralism, fucking rat, like a serial killer talking about how being beaten by daddy justifies his murders

If imperialists and their fascists dogs deserve to die for the crimes against humanity, you think you would not as well? You and I are bitter enemies, to the death, I don’t care if you call yourself a “Marxist”, Gonzaloite scum murdered enough Marxists anyway

 No.1028453


 No.1028455


 No.1028456

>>1028445
So you appreciate symbolic gestures? You do know that the people who died from the excesses of Ho Chi Minh, Ocalan and Gadaffi cant hear their apologies.

>At least the violent actions of Mao and Lenin amounted to the establishment of two socialist republics


This is what I mean from the liberalism of your response. If they had failed, would that mean that we should dog pile on Mao and Lenin? It seems like the future justifies their actions. Since we live in the present, we simply do not have that luxury, you have to act based on what you think is the truth. If the Shining Path would have succeeded, then the massacres would be justified after the fact. Which means that you are dogpiling on them for easy points since they failed. At least Maoist parties were able to understand their successes and failures and use it for their theory rather than just en blanc condemning them, Do you not take the revolutions of Phillipines, Turkey, Brazil, India, Nepal seriously? I can only imagine this line of thinking will lead to the condemnation of every single revolution occurring, ironically it's a purist view of revolution which dengoids accuse Maoists for having an 'idealized socialism'.

>>1028450
Communism is the truth. History will vindicate me.

 No.1028457

>>1028455
>>1028453
>>1028449
Read these gonzalo fans

about Gonzalo by a maoist

 No.1028461

>>1027996
>Gonzaloids

 No.1028463

let's be real: glowies made this thread to keep us from taking modern revolutionary movements and tactics seriously and learning from them

 No.1028464

>>1028457
Theres a difference between this reasonable maoists vs the people ITT frothing about Gonzalo and using Fujimori propaganda to justify it. If one was able to have a thread actually discussing the Shining Path theories, practices and results, the thread would actually be good but instead its people who quite literally cannot get over a single event that happened in 1983

 No.1028465

>>1028463
>Todays class we will analyze how to properly chop the infants legs off and pour the water in the most efficient manner

 No.1028475

>>1028456
>So you appreciate symbolic gestures?
These gestures were far symbolic, these people attempted compensation and the perpetrators of these crimes were brought to heel. The USSR had soldiers, who raped Berlin citizens during WWII, shot.
>You do know that the people who died from the excesses of Ho Chi Minh, Ocalan and Gadaffi cant hear their apologies.
And the children who died from the excesses of Gonzalo can't hear his non-apology either. At least you can do the bare minimum and apologise and compensate to innocent people you brutalise- they're certainly less likely to act against the interest of the revolution if you do so.

>If they had failed, would that mean that we should dog pile on Mao and Lenin? It seems like the future justifies their actions.

Lenin and Mao created socialist republics, and you're a fool if you think they aren't criticised for the formation and structure of these politics- the difference between them and Gonzalo is that they actually took time to self crit and contributed theory and the overall betterment of their people. Gonzalo on the other hand only brutalised those who supported them and lost favour, and went on to needlessly attack other MLs. The PKK and the ACP may call China revisionist, but they don't go out of their way to bomb their embassies.

>If the Shining Path would have succeeded, then the massacres would be justified after the fact.

Except they wouldn't. Not even the USSR gets off scott free from the crime of genocide relating to the deportation of Volga Germans, Crimean Tartars and Chechneans- difference being is that they actually apologised and re-compensated them for this crime.
Cuba also repressed homosexuals, except again, they apologised and recompensated and now have gay-marriage.
Even in current China, the cultural revolution is not looked upon well, nor is the great leap forward- but that doesn't mean that their criticism of Mao or these policies is unwarranted, nor does it take away their respect for Maos contribution.

Chairman Gonzalo expressed no regrets, and he certainly expressed no willingness to compensate the peasants that his party abused. That's why he's not respected by a majority of people.

>At least Maoist parties were able to understand their successes and failures and use it for their theory rather than just en blanc condemning them, Do you not take the revolutions of Phillipines, Turkey, Brazil, India, Nepal seriously?

We're not talking about Maoists in those countries however. We're talking about Gonzalo and the shining path, who is far from the only Maoist out there.

> I can only imagine this line of thinking will lead to the condemnation of every single revolution occurring, ironically it's a purist view of revolution which dengoids accuse Maoists for having an 'idealized socialism'.

Maoists condemn the soviet union and present day china, so this is more of a pot calling the kettle black. MLs do the exact same thing to Anarchists and Anarchists do the exact same thing to MLs- this isn't exactly an uncommon trend. The difference being is that legacy of the USSR and other Anarchist projects is that they actually benefitted the majority of the people- and if there were excesses they were willing to fess up and take responsibility to do better- something the Shining Path refused to do.

So yeah, nah- Lenin and Mao for all their faults contributed more to the socialist cause and the people they governed lived better lives.

 No.1028566

File: 1655973730395-0.png (224.37 KB, 680x338, 7656.png)

Reminder that Anti-Revisionism is a larp that exists only to allow someone to position themselves the center of the World Communist Movement, and inevitably leads to them arguing that there the only 'real' Communists in the world. All the while World Capitalism grows stronger..

 No.1028575

>>1028068
>I see a communist has been rehabilitated in a communist forum
>>1028070
>>1028071
>Samefag assumes board consensus and jerks his own dick
>>1028152
>>1028203
Your tears are delicious and so were the babies

 No.1028618

edgy (man)children

 No.1028621

>>1028395
it's not ML but maotism, has nothing to do with the former and Mao was ML

 No.1028632

File: 1655981991243.png (305.02 KB, 500x500, 1456875691726.png)

>>1028284
>1. Gusanoman did not fight against anyone. He was a fat intellectual fuck who LARPed as a jungle warrior, but actually stayed in Lima all the time because of some vague disease that he had claimed to have that somehow prohibits him from rural living. This is why him and nearly the entire leadership were arrested in Lima (imagine being a guerilla leader and hiding in the fucking capital city in an apartment).
this shit is too funny, on top of everything else
true tragicomedy

 No.1028634

File: 1655982341028.jpg (99.48 KB, 533x609, do the thing.jpg)

Did nothing wrong. Since when did leftypol become such a safe haven for center-leftists to be mollycoddled in? Liberals love getting offended at the slightest shit.

 No.1028635


 No.1028636

File: 1655982624222.jpg (48.69 KB, 806x230, sniggers.jpg)

>>1028450
>Gonzaloite scum murdered enough Marxists anyway
As did the bolsheviks and other communists elsewhere, no doubt. Relevance and backing? Why should anyone consider the feelings of a black nationalist on pretty much anything? Go back to twitter lmao

 No.1028639

>>1028636
Better a “black nationalist” than some disgusting white gringo masturbating to child killing bandits that were the enemies of all other communists in the country and used the “convert or die” method with the peasants they claimed to be fighting for before becoming outright extortionists and a fucking drug gang
> As did the bolsheviks and other communists
Good, so riddling you with bullets is justifiable, calling yourself a communist cannot and would not save you from other communists, glad we’ve cleared this up

 No.1028640

File: 1655983112535.gif (873.8 KB, 498x280, crybaby.gif)

>>1028639
Careful with those pearls, sweetie. Wouldn't want to spill them everywhere. Since you like that narrative so much, don't just selectively implement it against just one set of communists or revolutionaries for that matter.

 No.1028649

>>1028640
>I love murder, I want to hack children to death hahaha look at me everybody
>wow, what's up with that outrage

 No.1028651

I know little of the Shining Path and care little for Mautism, but why do people so readily believe claims of extreme violence on their part? There are similar accounts being peddled about Russian and Chinese communists and they all are largelt bullshit

 No.1028652

>>1028651
documentation

 No.1028654

>>1028652
Documented by whom though
Le 100 tredecillion anally vored personally by Stalin were also "documented" by certain organizations of the luminiscent variety

 No.1028656

>>1028654
no, there's no equivalent in the revolutions of the PRC and the USSR

as to who >>1028045 lol

 No.1028658

File: 1655984371859.gif (742.49 KB, 498x278, laughing.gif)

>>1028284
>1. Gusanoman did not fight against anyone. He was a fat intellectual fuck who LARPed as a jungle warrior, but actually stayed in Lima all the time because of some vague disease that he had claimed to have that somehow prohibits him from rural living. This is why him and nearly the entire leadership were arrested in Lima (imagine being a guerilla leader and hiding in the fucking capital city in an apartment).

 No.1028665

>>1028649
The outrage would pretty much be just you if leftypol had enough balls to be consistently for communism and communists regardless of whatever specific church one goes to, as an antisectarian communist discussion forum.

The effect Mao and Maoism have on us is fascinating, since there are next to no qualms for literally every other communist revolutionary out there eliminating their opponents. I wonder what softened us so much that the extent of socialism people here want is basically what a snowuyghur like me would get? You're bitches. Quit your bitching.
>>1028651
Rival communist fractions whose communism is tenuous at best spread lies to further their own success. Trots and numerous half-socialists love this, including some MLs it seems.

 No.1028667

>>1028665
>eliminating their opponents
>butchering random peasants

 No.1028668

Libs showing that they don't know what they're talking about for even the most newbie communist here
>>1028395
>>1028406
As if the moralizing defense of counterrevolutionary rich peasant families collaborating with a Japanese colonialist (Fujimori) supported by the US state directly wasn't proof enough.

 No.1028670

>>1028665
>not condoning random killings is soft
you are just a CIA uyghur

 No.1028671

>>1028667
Keep telling yourself that. I'm sure you would never drift more to the right over time to butcher some minorities in the future.

 No.1028672

>>1028670
Glow accusations are themselves glow. I'm sorry officer, but I won't shift my allegiance out of fear of being alienated.

 No.1028673

>>1028671
yes anon I'm pretty sure I won't do that

 No.1028677

>>1028673
That sure has never happened before with any other center leftist ever. Especially not in interwar Europe.

 No.1028678

>>1027996
Bitches be like "Guzman numba one, no babies boiled" and then "Rojava has killed trillions, Neo-Israel".

 No.1028680

>>1028678
Oh yeah, I remember when that happened exactly fucking nowhere. People asserting 'rojava killed trillions' would also cry baby soup.

 No.1028681

>>1028677
I'm not a centre leftist just because I don't support boiling babies, you gross freak

 No.1028682

>>1028672
you need killing
>out of fear of being alienated
what does that even mean, you are so far outside reality. there is no way you can be alienated. You are already fully alienated.
>>1028677
>everyone who doesn't want to butcher random children is centrist
>the more innocents you kill, the more left you are
what even is this script glowuyghur
let me talk to your supervisor

 No.1028699

>>1028687
Ironically, fedjacketing is the favorite pastime of the Gonzaloid. Every organization is run by the feds except the local Gonzaloid "Maoist" cadre. It's only when you point out that said cadres are all almost textbook examples of US federal cutout front orgs that fedjacketing suddenly becomes an issue.

 No.1028710

>>1028665
Except this has nothing to do with Maoism, it's about Gonzalo in particular. I can respect Maoism and dislike Gonzalo much like I can respect Anarchists and hate Bakunin.

 No.1028997

>>1028639
Why do you come here and get yourself so worked up over stupid historical shit every fucking day? Every fucking day I come here and see you sperging out about gonzalo or z-gang or whatever other bullshit is going on. Do you seriously get enjoyment out of this? Why do you do this to yourself? Seriously, touch grass, go outside, log the fuck off and stop making yourself so angry.

 No.1029002

>>1028997
>Every day I see you sperging about Gonzalo
Luckily Gonzaloids, an unpopular crowd here, haven’t posted in literal months, so no
>Or le Z gang
Oh so it’s a zigger whining about how I don’t get a throbbing erection for Russia, disregard

 No.1029003

>>1028997
> Do you seriously get enjoyment out of this?
Also yes

 No.1029010

>>1029002
>Oh so it’s a zigger whining about how I don’t get a throbbing erection for Russia, disregard
I'm not actually, but I honestly get a little concerned for you when I see you coming here every day and subjecting yourself to such abuse and humiliation,
>>1029003
>Also yes
That's all I needed to know

 No.1029042

>>1029010
>Abuse
You think I feel hurt when autists on an imageboard say mean words?
>Humiliation
🤣🤣🤣

 No.1029072

It doesn't matter if he did terrorism or whatever. Every revolution will lead to civilians dying. War isn't nice and people will make mistakes or have hard choices, anything short of genocide will happen normally. And even if Gonzalo did boil the babies (which of course is an exaggeration) just out of spite communists should still support him since if he has succeded he would have brought much more good than boiling even 1,000 children alive. Now this doesn't mean killing innocents is not a bad thing, or that he shouldn't be critisized for the terrible acts he has done, but it is the liberal way to focus on specific bad events rather than systemic issues. Even Chomsky talks about this. In fact, this thread is liberal in nature as seen by the 'think of the children' moralizing.

 No.1029087

>>1029042
I don't know man, I come here every day to see you absolutely frothing at the mouth about this bullshit or that bullshit. I would feel humiliated if I got that angry on a public forum every day. I'm just concerned for your well being, getting that angry every day isn't good for the soul, maybe you should try to relax a bit.

 No.1029150

>>1029072
It’s like you want people to think communists are demonic monsters.

 No.1029169

>peasants
>working class
Shiggeth diggeth

 No.1029178

>>1029087
If you'd feel humiliated you place way too much of yourself into internet posting. Do you not have a life outside of leftypol? Is this your identity?

 No.1029198

>>1029178
Yes, I do, but it seems you don't.

 No.1029204

>>1029198
Doubtful, since you're also here being a faggot every day and assuming I put much care into this place because I speak aggressively

You're acting like a redditor

 No.1029207

>>1029169
Seething about peasants again?

 No.1029216

>>1029204
The way you post and go on and on about things makes me inclined to think that you are legitimately getting yourself angry over imageboard posts, and I'm sure it looks that way to other people. Also you call me a reddit, yet you regularly post things from reddit.

 No.1029218

>>1029207
No I'm laughing.

 No.1029224

>>1029216
I am legitimately angry
I think people who would murdee children deserve to be publicly executed
I don't feel a shred of shame over that

I will never care about your political beliefs once you've crossed that boundary, calling yourself a Marxist is not a shield in my mind

 No.1029240

>>1029150
Even if optics were meaningful, which they clearly aren't, I doubt saying anything on this obscure imageboard is going to change anyone's mind about communism. You don't count since you're a liberal.
>>1029224
So do you think the Bolsheviks should have been publicly executed for killing the Tsar children and other rich kids which they failed to ransom? Man, I think its horrible but these things happen. You can't be revolutionary without accepting anything and everything needs to be used to win against a state which will do the same to you.

 No.1029243

>>1029218
Until your food and gas runs out on that island.

 No.1029248

>>1029243
Britain hasn't had peasants since the first half of the 19th century.

 No.1029254

>>1029224 american libshit
>>1029240 communist facts understander

 No.1029258

>>1029240
You mean for swiftly gunning down the royal family when they had no other choice, vs your fucking idols massacring an entire village as a terror tactic to demand peasants and indigenous people around the country bend their fucking knee?

No, they aren't the same, baby boiler. You people are fucking repulsive

 No.1029393

>>1029072
Except this fat fuck was an utter failure. His movement amounted to absolutely nothing and never held power anywhere. There is zero reason to cling on to him. At least if you go full Grover Furr you have the historic defeat of Nazis and the ascendance of USSR as a superpower behind you. What is on the side of the Gonzaöoism? Nothing but the stench of LARP and defeat

 No.1029396

>>1028117
>it was ultimately necessary
for what? they fucking lost and part of their defeat can be attributed to the fact they decided to declare war on the peasants

 No.1029475

>>1029396
>>1029393
The funniest thing about Gonzaloids is that they act like Guzman was the Red Emperor of the Western Hemisphere (when he's a nobody that accomplished nothing whose revolution failed) and a titan of Marxism to be put alongside Marx, Engels, Lenin, Stalin and Mao, when his only contribution was claiming you could manufacturer revolutionary conditions in a country by ritualistically reenacting Mao Zedong's Protracted People's War,which failed to do that even once and only inspired revolutions in countries that were going to have revolutions anyway, and likely contributed to most of these movements petering out and going nowhere because it convinced people that the best strategy was pissing around in the woods instead of capturing cities.

 No.1029559

File: 1656018679060.jpeg (113.89 KB, 1006x1024, One Struggle.jpeg)

>>1029475
> ritualistically reenacting Mao Zedong's Protracted People's War
Yeah its odd, modern Maoists seem to want to turn Marxism into Theology and endlessly larp as 1930s China while attacking everyone else as 'not real communists' for straying from the one true path.

 No.1029681

>>1028331
In fact, I have posted more facts than anybody else, one which no anti gonzalo poster has even bothered to engage with.

I don't even no what we are still arguing about.

I have said several times, lucanamarca was a mistake.

Okay, lets say it, you are correct on that. All of you obsessive, weird freaks who scream about this one point are correct about that point. I will make no further arguments against it, now, if you will, kindly, do me the solid of answering all these other points, which none of you have done, I ask for a 7th time

>>1028051

>>1028284
This guy had a stab but fell utterly flat, impyling that leaders of political parties, even sick ones, should be at the front line, which excludes the majority of revolutionary leaders, then went skitzo and started calling them a glow op and provided no proof of this.

Repeatedly the hysterics call them a glow op, literally never posting a single shred of evidence.

Then afterwards its just CULT CULT CULT PSY OP CULT FUCK YOU

basically useless trash.

so, to return to all the various points you have all flat out refused to address

1) The Fujimori Government killed far more people, in massacres just like what the shining path did, as well as force sterilising 200,000 indigenous women this is a point which NONE OF YOU HAVE EVEN ACKNOWLEGED

2) They are imperialist dogs just like all the other imperialist dogs acting in tandem with the CIA as part of Operation Condor. They killed a disappeared thousands.

and 3) While the Shining Path conducted a civil war and many brutal acts, this was a wartime, even then, the war time figures show the Peruvian government killed many more people,

now to expand on 2/3, what we are talking about here is the context in which the war was waged. Bare in mind, Allende was killed in 1973, just a decade or so before this, before him Jacobo Arbenz, alongside these, we have the communists slaughtered by Goulart, the many murdered and tortured in Uruguay under Dan mitrione.

At the same time as the Peruvian struggle, the struggle in Nicaragua against the contras, if you think lucanamarca was bad, try beheading and raping entire villages of peasants, raping children, torturing and murdering them. Not in a one off incident, as standard practive, taught directly to them by the CIA. The same and similar acts were also carried out in Peru by the CIA packed peruvian state, with Montesinos and so on.

I could go on with other example just from the decade or so around the 1980s, we could also to indonesia, etc. Grenada, Haiti, Panama, The Phillipines, for the last 80 years that whole region of the world has been defined by the unrepentent slaughter in the most brutal fashion, of proletarians.

This is precisely the context in which the Shining Path came around. The soviet union refusing to aid Nicaragua completely fucking things up in Grenada, China backing the Mujihadeen and selling weapons to the Contras in Nicaragua.

and you sit from behind your keyboard and tell me that Gonzalo was pure filth, disgusting and evil for fighting back against this why? Because his party made mistakes?

Literally fuck off. Absolutely no different to a libcucked analysis of North Korea, who, by the way, wouldn't have existed on their own as a Guerrilla struggle. They were losing the war, when China swept in and won it for them. They were doing far worse in fact, than the shining path were doing, they had been beaten back basically to the Chinese border when the tide turned.

The shining path never had the luxury of super power backing, in fact the super powers sold weapons to Fujimori.

absolutely typical bullshit. Ignore all the abject terror the CIA reigned on the continent for the better part of a century, as the context in which the shining path were formed. Act like they just got up one day and were like "fuck i gots to boil me a baby today out of pure blood lust"

cringe worthy childish moralising analyiss. Wouldn't fly for any other topic but apparently people still have latent anti communist impulses to get out and Gonzalo serves as a lightening rod.

AND THEN

>oooh they failed.


In fact, as i said, they did very well, looking generally at guerrilla struggles, which do by the way, have a tendency to fail. They fail all the time.

In peru, there had been several waves of guerrilla struggle before this, mostly abortive, lacking the organisation and ideological structure to really punch a hole.

On the back of this, the new wave, the peruvian communist party, with a Marxist Leninist analysis, were able to create what is objectively the most successful in this histroy of Guerrilla struggles.

Ask me how I know you don't have the foggiest clue about precursors to the shining path in peru, who they fought against and what happened to them,

and this is not the only context, in the context of all this, a left wing general completed a military coup, seemingly bringing hope to Peru, but not so, he himself was couped out of power, bringing in the reactionaries.

So yes, the shining path forgoed elections, in a country which has had at that point had more military coups than elections in the last 3 decades, and the elections were set up by those that did the coup

now the final point, the Fujimori government was committing and actual literal genocide. Not making a regrettable error this one time, or even several times, no, systematically destroying the indigenous people, on purpose, through programs of forced sterilisation, hundreds of thousands of people, over the years, millions of people by the CIA backed peruvian states.

None of you mentioned this, and now all of you again no doubt will ignore every point here and just go

>but what about the scalding water on the baby

YES. YES. IT WAS BAD. I AGREE. REMEMEBR AT THE TOP WHERE I SAID I AGREE. NOW. ENGAGE WITH THE FUCKING REST OF IT FOR FUCKS SAKE

 No.1029684

>>1028091
>Hmm maybe throwing boiling water at babies is excessive

 No.1030105

>>1029684
>we may have gone too far in a few places

 No.1030270

>>1029681
Mao marched. Lenin did years of exile work. Engels led a platoon in the 1848 revolution and barely survived. Castro commanded tanks. Che fought in jungle wars. Trotsky led the army. Stalin bombed a bank and fled on a horse and jumped on a moving train. Fatman Guzman was chilling in an air-conditioned apartment in the capital city for a decade. He has achieved NOTHING.

 No.1030295

>>1030270
Allende didn't do any of these things, still revered, Chavez got elected after attempting a military coup, he was not on the front lines. Sankara was also put in power due to a military coup. Evo Morales was a trade unionist, so was Maduro, hardly front lines combat, their skill, like Guzman, was ideological and organisational.

 No.1030298


>>1030270
your critique is "muh iphones" tier. Shite.

>>1030105
>>1029684
all of you answer the rest of this post.

There was two sides in this conflict, the shining path, or the CIA path.

You don't get your idealist 3rd option, didn't exist in material reality. So which is it?

 No.1030462

>>1030298
>The shining path or the CIA path
That’s just what retarded gonzaloshits think to justify why they furiously masturbate to child murderers and baby boilers

No fucking shit there are only “two paths” when your worthless dumbfuck idols waged war on all other Marxists in the country, attacked the embassies of all socialist countries there, slaughtered any leftist not affiliated with them, and then after embarking on their own reign of terror on both peasantry and working class, where peasants are slaughtered while workers are under siege from terrorist attacks, both literally chose to align with the fucking comprador state just to bring the war to an end, and now your idols are not only drug dealing scum and just another LatAm drug cartel, supposedly they’re fucking despised by the Peruvian left

But of course since Yanks are violent subhumans they worship this group that effectively helped the government destroy the Left in Peru, led by an utter narcissist, solely because of their campaign of terrorism; followed by literal retards who are dumb enough to find merit in hiding in the woods and “surrounding the cities” in fucking industrial societies where the population is concentrated in cities

Now why don’t you go off to some glowops where you attack US leftists and try encouraging people to bomb police stations and nail pig heads to people’s door?

 No.1030481

Can't find any source that says The Shining Path bombed the Cuban embassy. Maybe I'm not looking in the right places. Can't really see much about Shining Path- Cuba relations.

here is Castro talking about them anyway:

>Oscar Eduardo Bravo] Oscar Eduardo Bravo of Radio Programs of Peru.

>Commander Fidel Castro, I have two questions. First, what is the Cuban Government's position regarding the terrorist group Shining path, which is operating in Peru, and now according to reports is also in Bolivia, Chile,and in Tucuman, Argentina?
>Second, do you have doubts about President Alan Garcia's abilities? This I ask based on your message in which you seem to question him, as if doubting what he has promised. Do you have any fear of losing some of your leadership in Latin America, especially among the group of debtors?
>[Castro] You have asked at least three questions in one, which do not seem to have any relation. You ask me about Shining Path. I absolutely have no links with Shining Path. I do not know and have never known anyone linked to Shining Path. I know as much about Shining Path as you do. It is a mystery. I have said in some of my inter views that it seems to confirm the country's state of social instability. It seems to confirm a very deep economic crisis in the country. That is what Shining Path seems to mean – more so, when you read the statistics on Cuzco, about the number of illiterate and hungry peasants and undernourished children.
>A Peruvian peasant leader who spoke here recently complained about very few people having more than 200 calories daily and according to what the charts recommended a person should consume 2,500 calories daily. There are children who are only getting 10 to 15 calories [corrects himself] 15 to 20 grams of protein daily, who should be consuming an average of 60, 70 or 80 grams of protein. More than 100 children for every 1,000 die every year. I call this terrorism of the worst kind. How many children are going to be born in Peru? Peru has approximately 20 million inhabitants. Suppose we place the birthrate at 3 percent.This means that at least half a million will be borne and if 10 percent of these die in their first year of life,this will mean that 50,000 children will die. However, with a health system like the one we have in Cuba, more than 40,000 of those children could be saved. This means that the existing social system is the cause of the death of 40,000 children every year. To this we must add those children who die between the age of 1 and 5 and those who grow up with physical and mental problems. There is not a more heinous form of terrorism than the one created by that exploitation system.
> Yet, I only hear about the other type of terrorism, never about this terrorism. I would like to hear more talk about this type of terrorism. The other terrorism is a social outburst.
>Anyone can understand that whenever there is a movement advocating a program that has unknown objectives and intentions, but that remains active after so many years, this means that the country is facing a terrible social situation.
>I realize that this problem cannot be solved with weapons. Peru's internal peace problem can only be solved through political means. Among such means, are the eradication of the social factors and causes that originated the problem and when the people of the rural areas and cities and the abandoned children stop dying of hunger and when there is no malnutrition,poverty, and unemployment.
>The problem must be faced by going to the roots of what is causing these conditions and not by the use of force. The problem will never be solved by weapons. The social cause of the problem is clear and deep. Any politician, scientist, or sociologist can perfectly explain the situation.
>I think that if a patriotic and nationalist effort is made; if an
anti-imperialist struggle for independence is carried out to solve these problems, you could be on the path to solving the existing situation.
>You mentioned to me that the Shining Fath is deployed all along the Andes Cordillera. But how can I tell? You tell me that it is also in Bolivia. I know that Bolivia has similar social conditions. It is in Paraguay, also. I think that there has been some exaggeration and that such reports have a purpose. It has been disseminated by someone interested in having the people believe so.
>I think that my message was clearly and frankly supportive. We published a note wishing the government success. We said that if he [Peruvian President Garcia] really carries out a serious, steady and upright struggle to free the country from imperialism and to solve social calamities, he could count on Cuba's support. I think the message was clear and categorical. He can count on our firm support. I did not express any lack of confidence. However, I have a responsibility to my people. I cannot a priori express
unconditional support. I expressed support as we usually do for everyone within given circumstances. You must realize that there has been a great deal of rhetoric in this hemisphere. We cannot be guided just on plain words, we must wait for facts. If the deeds live up to the promises, then we will not hesitate to give him all our support.

http://lanic.utexas.edu/project/castro/db/1985/19850804-1.html

 No.1030505

>>1030462
> on all other Marxists in the country,
so why didn't the Tupac Amuru movement gain popular support then? How you claim the shining path were such a failure but then go on to support this group, equally violent when they wanted to be, doing all the same tactics, but with tiny popular support in comparison?

>attacked the embassies of all socialist countries there

China was currently doing far worse than bombing embassies, directly allied the CIA in afghanistann and selling weapons to the CIA fujimori govt and other CIA allies.

The USSR was on the verge of collapse back into shock therapy, thanks to the corrupt
leadership.

I have already pointed this out and you made no response.

I have seen no evidence about the cuban embassy, previously claimed, I will believe it though if shown.

>slaughtered any leftist not affiliated with them

not really true though, and in the context, such people not taking part in strikes, are scabs, for example.

>and then after embarking on their own reign of terror on both peasantry and working class, where peasants are slaughtered while workers are under siege from terrorist attacks, both literally chose to align with the fucking comprador state

ignoring of course, the massive repression by that comprador state which had outlawed the shining path as well the other leftist groups you hold dear for some reason, and the mass murder by that state, and the fact that the legitimacy of that state was based on a military coup, that is was a cia backed state which regularly tortured and dissapeared its citizens, rigged the electoral process, faked bombings blaming them on the left, attacked and killed leftists and trade unionists of all stripes.

In short, no, the population didn't side with the government, they were subdued by it. Truly the lib cuck never ceases to lib.

> led by an utter narcissist

give a citation.

>Now why don’t you go off to some glowops

he says, speaking on behalf of Vladimir Montesinos and the Fujirmori governement????

Libs are muddle headed.

 No.1030513

>>1028997
>>1029003
<Do you seriously get enjoyment out of this?
>Also yes

 No.1030575

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/obituaries/abimael-guzman-dead/2021/09/11/0ecee938-131e-11ec-9cb6-bf9351a25799_story.html

a washington post article which says that the CIA were directly involved with the capture of Guzman.

Far from being "drug dealing scum", the article also talks about how the Shining Path seized air strips belonging to drug dealers, charging them huge revolutionary taxes, the drug dealers were afraid of the shining path.

these two things are probably linked, Shining Path interupted the CIA drug trade, of course, Fujimoris right hand man, Vladimir Montesinos, was deeply involved in the drug trade. An attack on the drug trade was a direct attack on him

 No.1030577

>>1028118
Will your trust fund hold up?

 No.1030633

Guzmán did a hecklin baby boilerino, CIA told me so

 No.1030684

>>1030481
Gusanoman then turned around to call Castro a social fascist and said Cuba is a Soviet colony

 No.1030691

>>1030295
None of these claimed to be guerilla fighters. None of these say PROTRRACTED PEOOPLES WAR IS UNIVERSAL AND THE ONLY WAY TO GET INTO POWER. Fuck off

 No.1030729

>>1028284
>Gonzaloism is entirely a glow-op. Notice how half of you retards only followed this shit once Gonzalo finally croaked. Notice how most of you retards are Western LARPers who have never even set a step inside jungles. Gonzaloism barely even exists, that's why you have to cling on to other movements (like peasants in Brazil organizing) and act like they are your people.

>Gonzaloism is a cult, a psyop and above all a sign of mental retardation. Gonzalo has 0 (zero) contributions to theory - no, "summarizing Mao" is not a novel theory, and no, protracted's people's war is not universal



It's almost like it is in their class interests to follow a dead and buried cult of "leftist" adventurism. There is a reason why virtually all Gonzaloism upholders are from the bourgeois class. There aren't that many offline, but one clear example is some Canadian academic fucker who published a book on Maoism summarizing that the Shining Path's activities were the only example of actually existing Maoism. I forgot his name, but I think it got pubished by Zero books or the like.

Anyhow, it wouldn't be in the class interests of these phonies to be MLs and actively betray their class with real world tangible results.

 No.1030759

pretty hilarious how the anti gonzalo hysterics in this thread literally just entirely ignore all the historical context and spam BABY BOIL and CULT or NARCISSIST over and over again. There is literally zero analysis of anything. Notice how the Pro Gonzalo side have been readily willing to admit mistakes from the start, then added context to them, new pieces of information.

The anti side have done nothing but say "boiling baby bad" and refused point blank to engage in any way that suggests the shining path weren't simply pure evil, which is a complete retard baby way to look at any political movement, particularly a communist one on a communist website

 No.1030841

narcissist's baby boiling cult

 No.1030914

>>1030684
That's true tho

 No.1030923

File: 1656091627771.png (116.55 KB, 350x247, ClipboardImage.png)

Long live Marxism-Leninism-Maoism

 No.1030985

>With FREDEMO dissolved and APRA leader Alan García exiled to Colombia, Fujimori sought to legitimize his position. He called elections for a Democratic Constitutional Congress, to serve as a legislature and as a constituent assembly. The APRA and Popular Action attempted a boycott of this election, but the Christian People's Party (PPC, not to be confused with PCP, Partido Comunista del Peru, or "Peruvian Communist Party") and many left-leaning parties participated in this election. Fujimori supporters won a majority of the seats in this body, and drafted a new constitution in 1993. In a referendum, the coup and the Constitution of 1993 were approved by a narrow margin of less than five percent

Ah yes, this is the population that universally turned against SP towards the fujimori governemtn yes, the legit government that the shining path were worse than, who came to power on a coup.

Look who was boycotting these elections, oh even the socdem and liberal parties you guys lionise.

In his first term alone, 3000 political murders.

> Fujimori's supporters won comfortable majority in the newly unicameral Congress. One of the first acts of the new congress was to declare an amnesty for all members of the Peruvian military or police accused or convicted of human rights abuses between 1980 and 1995.[70]


>The 1995 election was the turning point in Fujimori's career. Peruvians began to be more concerned about freedom of speech and the press. However, before he was sworn in for a second term, Fujimori stripped two universities of their autonomy and reshuffled the national electoral board. This led his opponents to call him "Chinochet," a reference to his previous nickname and to Chilean dictator Augusto Pinochet.[72] Modeling his rule after Pinochet, Fujimori reportedly enjoyed this nickname


>In addition to the fate of democracy under Fujimori, Peruvians were becoming increasingly interested in the myriad allegations of criminality that involved Fujimori and his chief of the National Intelligence Service (SIN), Vladimiro Montesinos. Using SIN, Fujimori gained control of the majority of the armed forces, with Financial Times stating that "[i]n no other country in Latin America did a president have so much control over the armed forces".[69]


> A 2002 report by Health Minister Fernando Carbone later suggested that Fujimori was involved in the forced sterilizations of up to 300,000 indigenous women between 1996 and 2000, as part of a population control program. [10] A 2004 World Bank publication said that in this period Montesinos' abuse of the power Fujimori granted him "led to a steady and systematic undermining of the rule of law".[

 No.1030992

>>1030985
apologies, i've been saying he force sterilised 200,000 indigenous women all thread, in fact it was 300,000

 No.1031009

>Vladimiro Lenin Ilich Montesinos Torres (born 20 May 1945) is a former long-standing head of Peru's intelligence service, National Intelligence Service (SIN), under President Alberto Fujimori.

(yes he was named after Lenin, his parents were communists, his cousin was also a shining path guerrilla, the man is a disgrace to his family above other things)

>Subsequent investigations revealed Montesinos to be at the centre of a vast web of illegal activities, including embezzlement, graft, gunrunning, and drug trafficking. He has been tried, convicted and sentenced for numerous charges. Montesinos had strong connections with the Central Intelligence Agency (CIA) for over 25 years and was said to have received $10 million from the agency for his government's anti-terrorist activities, with international bank accounts possessed by Montesinos reportedly holding at least $270 million.[1][2]


>Montesinos came to public notice again in 1990 when he defended Alberto Fujimori against accusations of fraudulent real estate dealings, during the presidential campaign, in which Fujimori was an obscure candidate. The paperwork in the case disappeared and the charges were dropped. Gustavo Gorriti reported that Montesinos allegedly used $1 million provided by Pablo Escobar to fund the presidential campaign for Alberto Fujimori in the 1990 Peruvian general election. [2] In addition, evidence exists that Montesinos reportedly forged tax documents and the birth certificate of Fujimori according to the Harvard International Review.[6] After Fujimori won the 1990 general elections, on 28 July Montesinos became his chief advisor and the effective head of the National Intelligence Service (SIN). The Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA), according to its documents, believed in 1990 that Montesinos effectively ruled Peru through the SIN.[6] The United States reportedly maintained a relationship with Montesinos as a way to have direct influence in Peru; the SIN head would clear bureaucratic obstacles and would immediately implement the recommendations of the CIA.[6] During his years with Fujimori, Montesinos was said to be paid $1 million annually by the CIA from 1990 to 2000, according to US officials, while the CIA and the DEA defended him from allegations of misconduct.[



>During the Fujimori years, Montesinos gained extensive control over the Peruvian media by bribing television channel executives. Bribes ranged from approximately US$500,000 per month to Channels 2 and 5 to $1.5 million per month to Channel 4. In total, Montesinos paid more than US$3 million per month in bribes to Peruvian television channels.[7]


>Montesinos funneled additional funds to the television channels through government advertising. From 1997 to 1999, the Peruvian government increased their advertising budget by 52%, becoming Peru's largest advertiser. Ultimately, Montesinos held editorial control over Peru's free-to-air television networks: Frecuencia Latina, América Televisión, Panamericana Televisión, ATV, and Red Global.[8]


>To maintain this control he structured bribe payments in monthly installments, limiting the risk of defection by the TV channel owners. He also ensured continued cooperation through blackmail, utilizing video evidence of sexual indiscretions by bribe recipients. To keep track of the numerous bribes and gain further evidence of the owners' complicity, which could also be used as blackmail, Montesinos filmed monetary exchanges and forced channel executives to sign contracts stipulating the extent of influence he expected in return for the stated monetary bribe.[9]

 No.1031028

>The DEA was aware of reports in August 1990 that Montesinos was involved with being paid for the immunity of drug traffickers.[6]

>Allegations circulated that Montesinos and General Nicolás Hermoza Ríos, the chairman of Peru's joint chiefs of staff, were taking protection money from drug traffickers. Documents that were later declassified by the US government showed that by 1996 the Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) was aware of the allegations.[14] Despite evidence that Montesinos was in business with Colombian narco-traffickers, the CIA paid Montesinos's intelligence organization $1 million a year for 10 years to fight drug trafficking.

 No.1031030

>Peruvian drug kingpin Demetrio Chávez Peñaherrera, known as "El Vaticano", testified that Montesinos was a protector of drug trafficking. During a trial audience on August 16, 1996, Chávez Peñaherrera stated that he had bribed members of the Peruvian Armed Forces and Montesinos himself, as the effective chief of the Peruvian Intelligence Service (SIN), to be able to operate freely in Campanilla, a jungle area of the Huallaga region (where he operated an illegal airstrip). Recordings of radio communications presented during the trial showed that members of the army had let Chávez's organization operate freely in the Huallaga region in exchange for bribes. During a latter appearance in the court, Chávez appeared tortured and drugged, evidenced by his incoherent speaking.[citation needed] After sentencing, while in prison, Chávez talked to the press and revealed that Montesinos said to him at one point that he "did some work" with Pablo Escobar, leader of the Medellín Cartel.

 No.1031060

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accomarca_massacre

oh no… garcia sisters… not like this…. I thought he was a good liberal? You lied to me

>The Accomarca massacre occurred on 14 August 1985, in the peasant village of Accomarca, now a neighbourhood of Ayacucho, Peru.[1] There the Peruvian military massacred unarmed men, women and children. The official number of villagers killed is 69,[1] however it has been variously reported as 47[2] or 74.[3] It became known nationally as one of the most infamous examples of human rights violations by the Peruvian state during the country's 20 years of terrorism insurgency (1980–2000).


>According to the Center for Justice and Accountability, the massacre occurred as follows: "In August 1985, the Army’s Chief of the Political-Military Command for the “emergency zone” ordered one of his officers to devise an operational plan to “capture and/or destroy terrorist elements” in an area of Accomarca known as Quebrada de Huancayoc. A meeting was convened to discuss the plan that was attended by, among others, Second Lieutenant Telmo Hurtado Hurtado, Lieutenant Rivera Rondón and the commander of Lince Company, Major José Daniel Williams Zapata. At the meeting, the plans of the operation were laid out. Two units from Lince Company would be employed. Williams Zapata chose the Lince 6 patrol unit, commanded by Rivera Rondón, and Lince 7 unit, commanded by Hurtado, to carry out the operation. The attendees were told that any villager appearing in Quebrada de Huancayoc should be considered a communist terrorist.Then, on 14 August 1985, Lince 6 and Lince 7 entered Quebrada de Huancayoc. With Rivera Rondón’s troops blocking a nearby escape route, Hurtado and his soldiers went house to house forcibly removing villagers from their homes. The villagers were beaten with the butts of weapons and kicked with the heels of soldiers’ boots. They were lined-up single file and herded into houses of death, where Hurtado and his soldiers repeatedly shot …family members, and then burned them alive amidst desperate screams for mercy. These acts were personally seen and heard by two 12-year old girls, Teófila Ochoa Lizarbe and Cirila Pulido Baldeón. In all, approximately 100[failed verification] unarmed civilians were killed by the Army during the operation.

 No.1031072

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Putis_massacre

Bros… how come the human rights officiandos and experts on Peru resident to this board have only ever mentioned lucanamarca?

Here I find many worse massacres… but get this…. they have all been comitted by … the state Shining Path were at war with??????!!!!????? the one that was put in power by the cia narco trafficking fascist network of operation condor?

How can it be fellow foul tachos? who could have told these lies?

>The Putis Massacre was a massacre of 123 campesinos carried out by the Peruvian Army in a rural hamlet in the Santillana District of the Huanta Province in the Ayacucho Region of Peru.[1] The massacre occurred in December 1984.


>Despite the exhumation procedures, no one has been indicted so far for the Putis massacre as the Peruvian Military refuses to give any explanation about the events, claiming all related documentation was destroyed in a fire.[12]

 No.1031082

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peruvian_prison_massacres

>The Peruvian prison massacres occurred on June 18–19, 1986, after a series of riots in the San Pedro, Santa Mónica, and El Frontón prisons in Lima and Callao. The military repression of these riots resulted in the loss of at least 224 lives


I just KEEP READING fellow Fujimoristas and.. my eyes… it cannot be

 No.1031207

>>1031072
>>1031082
Wow a bourgeois state does class war. What a revelation Mautist. This still makes Gonzaloism a retarded ideology that never won anything anywhere.

 No.1031217

>>1030914
No it's not. There are CIA documents discussing how independent Cuba is of the USSR and them worrying about Cuba opening up a new path for revolutions. Cope and seethe Mautist.

 No.1031222

>>1030729
Very well put. Gonzaloids love the universal PPW line because it gives them an excuse to sit back and be armchairists until the PPW conditions are ready in whatever Westoid country they live in.

 No.1031225

guzman and the shining path are more sympathetic than either mao or stalin

 No.1031251

>>1031225
Stalin helped make the USSR a world power and defeat the Nazis.
Mao helped free China from a century of humilation.
Gusanoman did…*checks notes*….um…nothing at all besides get caught in an airconditioned apartment in Lima and toil in obscurity for 3 decades inside a prison

 No.1031253

>>1029475
>when his only contribution was claiming you could manufacturer revolutionary conditions in a country by ritualistically reenacting Mao Zedong's Protracted People's War,

>>1031251
>Very well put. Gonzaloids love the universal PPW line because it gives them an excuse to sit back and be armchairists until the PPW conditions are ready

wait wait wait Montesino bros.. I don't get it… do Gonzaloids manufacture revolutionary conditions.. or do they wait for them?

This is not a very clear message my friends I do not understand

 No.1031254

File: 1656096784705.gif (2.57 MB, 640x640, tf2-heavy.gif)

>>1031072
pootis massacre

 No.1031256

>>1031251
>he claims to hate imperialism and yet he uses air conditioning
>commies OWNED its BASIC ECONOMICS

 No.1031259

>>1031251
>helped make the USSR a world power
>helped free China from a century of humilation
don't care
>defeat the Nazis
LOL
anyways, the Shining Path was the first modern insurrection in the Americas and probably went even farther than the Zapatistas, so it's automatically more relevant than anything Mao or Stalin personally did

 No.1031261

>>1031256
Claims to lead a PPW and be a guerilla commander and then loses and gets captured. Big difference.

I respect leaders who win. Stalin, Castro, Mao. Not limpdick fat losers.

 No.1031264

>>1031259
t. Mentally ill Westerner

 No.1031267

>>1031261
>I like people who don't get caught
>Donal t drump

Guess Sankara lost in the end as well. Must be because he was a BAD MAN

North Korea, would have lost without Chinese support, I guess that makes them LITERALLY EVIL.

Failed slave revolts? Ahaha, those scum

 No.1031268

>>1031253
Gonzaloids are Dis.cord using 20 somethings in Ohio, USA. They dont exist in any significant capacity because the Shining Path is dead, because Guzman was a horrible leader with horrible tactics and ideology.

 No.1031270

>>1031267
Well I certainly would be dumb to follow Sankara on any tactical questions.

Yet Ryan from Austin, Texas insists Chairman Gonzalo gave us the blueprint for perfect PPW revolution.

 No.1031275

File: 1656097111930.mp4 (157.11 KB, 640x640, 1646801183679.mp4)

>>1031264
Personally I hope it's a troll

 No.1031286

>>1031261
speaking of limpdick fat losers

 No.1031292

>>1028051
this is post number 19 in a thread of 260

it states and they committed genocidal activities like the forced sterilisation of hundreds of thousands of indigenous women. 3 hundred thousand to be precise.

231 posts they have had and not a SINGLE anti gonzalo NUTJOB has even so much as acknowledged that this happened.

This is the good faith they argue in.

We can only assume, they aren't really bothered, don't care that this happened. Apparently violence is only bad when communists do it.

They literally cannot even make a comment on that situation.

Comment now, or be forever disgraced

 No.1031297

>>1031286
Your troll is pretty weak considering Gonzaloids are Mautists too. Try harder

 No.1031298

>>1031297
what. actually i dont even wanna know

 No.1031302

File: 1656097531307-0.png (190.96 KB, 1228x1150, Annoyed Pepe Tilt.png)

File: 1656097531307-1.jpg (91.27 KB, 778x1200, 65655.jpg)

>>1030729
>but one clear example is some Canadian academic fucker who published a book on Maoism summarizing that the Shining Path's activities were the only example of actually existing Maoism. I forgot his name, but I think it got pubished by Zero books or the like.

Here a paragraph from this 'book'..
> the Gang of Four sometimes found themselves lost in a new geography where the previous assumptions of anti-revisionism often seemed like a problem of infinite regress: if the prime antirevisionist force was suddenly revisionist, then would not the emergence of a new anti-revisionism set off an incoherent chain of successive anti-revisionisms? There was no longer a center to anti-revisionist ideology.

> CTRL F

> search 'Revisionism'
> 339 Results

 No.1031307

>>1031302
westerners are cancer
maotists are cancer
the combination is the most cancerous shit in existence

 No.1031321

>>1031292
every post made by thr Fujimorists and Montesinoistas without acknowledging it is an acception to utter defeat and degradation. A confession to total physical, moral and mental degeneration

 No.1031341

>>1031321
The hands that have written the above post have never touched a woman

 No.1031343

>>1030759
The anti-Gonzaloists in this thread are either trolling or CIA agents. They refuse to listen to stated facts, and either argue on inane moral points which should have been settled a day ago or use arguments eerily similar to ones reactionaries use against communism. Well, they certainly try hard enough to defend a fascist regime.

 No.1031358

>>1031343
Um, did you know that gonzalo was known to wash, IN A SHOWER and considers himself revolutionary.

>>1031341
and so the confession comes. It must be strange to live in a world where the death of 18 children is a crime unforgivable, but the sterilisation of 300,000 women against their will is.. actually fine, not worth a comment.

Truly bizarre. Then having it pointed out to you, that you have had literally no response, positive or negative, to this most grave of questions, which is of course, what we are all here to do no? Answer these grave questions? The response?

>u r virgin XD


The anti gonzalo mind, on display for all to see, truly pathetic and vile

 No.1031374

Chairman Gonzalo actually wore SHOES. Checkmate atheists

 No.1031396

>>1031343
hey if you think massacring random civilians is inane we already know what you are

 No.1031403

>>1031396
what about the forced sterilisation of 300,000 women what do you think of that?

 No.1031407

>>1031403
horrible
has little bearing on what trash gonzalo and his followers are

 No.1031443

>>1031407
Did you know that, such racial programs had been present in Peru for a very long time. Indeed, you might even call the peruvian elite downright Malthusian you might even call them white supremacist colonisers

> Population control measures, especially relating to ethnicity, began to appear during the 20th century in Peru.[1] The elites of Peru adopted the theory of eugenics in the 1920s and 1930s, requiring pre-marriage examinations that would ban unions that involved individuals determined to be "unfit" .[1] In the 1930s, the Peruvian government actively promoted the immigration of white Europeans.[1]


>In the 1980s, Peru was a country that had long been subordinate to an oligarchy in its society and as a result, the class divide between a handful of "powerful individuals" and the remaining "poor and impotent majority" was significant.[2] The Peruvian armed forces, frustrated with the inability of the Alan García administration to handle the nation's crises, including the internal conflict in Peru, began to draft a plan to overthrow his government and establish a neoliberal government.[3][4] According to Peruvian sociologist and political analyst Fernando Rospigliosi, Peru's business elites held relationships with the military planners, with Rospigliosi writing that businesses "probably provided the economic ideas which [the military] agreed with, the necessity of a liberal economic program as well as the installment of an authoritarian government which would impose order".[5]


>In one of the plan's volumes titled Driving Peru into the XXI century, the military planned to sterilize impoverished citizens in what Rospigliosi described as "ideas frankly similar to the Nazis", with the military writing that "the general use of sterilization processes for culturally backward and economically impoverished groups is convenient", describing these groups as "unnecessary burdens" and that "given their incorrigible character and lack of resources … there is only their total extermination".[6]


>According to Peruvian magazine Oiga, the armed forces finalized plans on 18 June 1990 involving multiple scenarios for a coup to be executed on 27 July 1990, the day prior to the inauguration of Alberto Fujimori.[7] The magazine noted that in one of the scenarios, titled "Negotiation and agreement with Fujimori. Bases of negotiation: concept of directed Democracy and Market Economy", Fujimori was to be directed on accepting the military's plan at least twenty-four hours before his inauguration.[7] Rospigliosi states "an understanding was established between Fujimori, Montesinos and some of the military officers" involved in Plan Verde prior to Fujimori's inauguration.[8][9] Fujimori would go on to adopt many of the policies outlined in Plan Verde.


>Prior to the program, there were less than 15,000 sterilizations performed per year and women could only have the operation performed "if they had a health risk, four or more children, or were above a certain age".[18] However, after 1995 when sterilizations began to be performed, there were no pre-existing conditions necessary for sterilizations other than that women had to be considered part of Peru's poor and disenfranchised community.


I wonder.. what we think of somebody who would go to war with these… I think we can call them, white supremasict coloniser, genocidal fascist maniacs… in league with the CIA… I mean, are you going to deny any one of those things, that they white supremacists, colonisers, who were in league with the CIA, and actively committing genocide on the population, funded by drug money, who came to power on the back of a military coup, by a military with detailed plans for ethnic cleansing, which they held all throughout the 1980s

you deny any of those things? Please tell me how else one would put an end to a series of military coups and then fake elections which had plagued your country for decades?

Go out and vote? For who? Garcia? The liberal under whom fascist death squads roamed openly with the backing of the state, or Fujimori, who was an open and active fascist, under who fascist death squads roamed openly, with the backing of the state.

Perhaps you would wait out hope for another leftist military coup, like the one by Velasco.. who despite doing a lot of good things for the country, was then removed in another military coup.

Around the time… the shining path came on the scene

 No.1031449

>>1031443
>they massacre random people
>so we massacre random people
>and when we massacre a whole lot of people that's communism

 No.1031456

>>1031449
>random people
>a village which was a reactionary stronghold, which had just murdered one of their commanders by burning him alive

 No.1031461

>>1031456
1.kill them all not just the men, but the women and children too
2. ????
3. communism

 No.1031462

>The plan's forced sterilization of vulnerable groups through the Programa Nacional de Población has been variably described as an ethnic cleansing or genocidal operation.[22][23][24] According to Back and Zavala, the plan was an example of ethnic cleansing as it targeted indigenous and rural women.[25] Jocelyn E. Getgen of Cornell University wrote that the systemic nature of sterilizations and the mens rea of officials who drafted the plan proved an act of genocide.[26] The Centro Amazónico de Antropología y Aplicación Práctica non-profit stated that the act "was the largest genocide since [Peru's] colonization". [27] The policy of sterilizations resulted in a generational shift that included a smaller younger generation that could not provide economic stimulation to rural areas, making such regions more impoverished.[28]

>Population control guidelines promoted by international bodies became apparent when the International Monetary Fund called on the Peruvian government to cut social programs in order to fund population programs. [29] According to Peru's congressional subcommittee investigations, United States Agency for International Development (USAID), the United Nations Population Fund (UNFPA) and the Nippon Foundation supported the sterilization efforts of the Fujimori government. [30][31] The investigation found that as USAID funding increased for the program, more sterilizations were performed, with the investigatory board concluding that the "correlation has a causal nature, since there is information made public recently, which has revealed the global strategy defined for the last quarter of the last century by the United States government in order to obtain a decrease in the birth rate".[31] The subcommittee cited the National Security Study Memorandum 200 and Henry Kissinger's direction to lower population growth in developing countries in order to maintain stability for United States political and economic interests.[31] In documents provided by the Freedom of Information Act, the investigators cited E. Liagin, who reported that from 1993 to 1998, "USAID's own internal files reveal that in 1993 the US basically took over Peru's national health system" during the period of forced sterilizations, with E. Liagin concluding that it was "virtually inconceivable that sterilization abuses could have occurred in the systematic way that has been documented without the knowledge of USAID local administrators and their counterparts in Washington

 No.1031464

>>1031396
Make an argument that hasn't been answered already for fucks sake. Do I think massacring civilians is inane? No. Do I think you are hyperfocusing on a single bad event and your argument is dogshit? Yes.

 No.1031465

>>1031461
as opposed to your plan which is
>carry water for USAID
>????
>Communism

 No.1031466

>>1031464
you are insane

 No.1031467

>>1031466
you are employed by USAID

 No.1031476

>>1031465
The only reason one would object to senseless murder is if they are paid off by the USA, makes sense

 No.1031479

insane american trash is what you are
do you fantasize about being a disney villain? ludicrous edgelord shit

 No.1031481

>>1031464
And you're trolling or an agent.

 No.1031487

>>1031476
the only reason one would frame murders in the context of class war, in Latin America, during the 1980s, against malthusian, genocidal, white supremacist, CIA backed, USAID backed, fascists as simply "senseless murders" is they are paid off by the US, or simply dull of mind.

 No.1031491

>>1031487
How many of those villagers were malthusian, genocidal, white supremacist, CIA backed, USAID backed, fascists exactly

 No.1031519

File: 1656102246873.png (1.2 MB, 1024x680, ClipboardImage.png)

POV: Marxism-Leninism-Maoism Gonzalo Thought meetup

 No.1031524

>>1031487
hello king lear,how you doing ?

 No.1031537

File: 1656102456596.mp4 (Spoiler Image, 3.67 MB, 1280x720, Chairman Gonzalo Speech.mp4)

> My Favorite Speech from Chairman Gonzalo!

 No.1031539

File: 1656102497202.png (866.86 KB, 800x566, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1031561

>>1031491
all of the ones that watched as the commander was burned alive

 No.1031647

File: 1656103956270.jpg (92.76 KB, 1280x720, back.jpg)

Gonzaloids keep pointing at Fujimori (who came later and whom Gonzalo surrendered) while defending the glorious struggle of doing razzias against peasants, including woman and children, to keep them in line.
>>1028045
Looks like gonzaloids apart of deniying their own doings and looking like sociopaths are illiterate as well, not surprising.
>>1028241
>>1028203

 No.1031704

>>1031647
all those massacres by the state were in 1980s, under Garcia as well as Fujimori, although many did continue until recently. All of those military coups started way earlier in the 60's, with the last one by Fujimori in 1992

also, as is shown, the Peruvian military was planning this genocide from the early 1980s. many of the peruvian elites much longer.

 No.1031707

>>1031461
Jesus Christ you moron. It's a guerilla war. I'm not even a gonzaloid, but how do you expect to win your ebin asymmetrical fight for socialism if you can't stand to break your enemy's spirit? Yes it's barbaric, that's the point, it's indented to psychologically damage a superior foe's will to resist. This shit is part and parcel of every insurgency ever fought.

 No.1031755

>>1031707
>break your enemy's spirit
how does one measure this

 No.1031757

>>1031704
>Continues to mix the 80s and 90s, triying to stir water into justifiying the actions of the shining path
Gonzalo could have still fought, hell Ocallan is no longer a communist but he hasn't sold out to the turks, but he claudicated to Fujimori in 1992. In 1995 the sterilizations begin. Horrible stuff in a country were after the fallout of the fall of the USSR and the remembrance of the Shining Path left no left. Did Gonzalo ever said something about it?
>>1031707
More razzia + baby crushing defending
Truly we are among the new soviet man.
Answer yourself why Lucanamarca, and many other places and people, were simpathetic to them and what happened to sour things to that level.

 No.1031758

>>1031755
By how many baby bones end up in your shoes

 No.1031766

>>1031755
>how does one measure this
Are they still resisting you? Are their neighbours resisting you more or less after what you did? Are more of your enemies willing to surrender to you?

 No.1031790

>>1031755
It's when the protagonist in an NTR realizes the new foreign exchange student he's housing has impregnated his wife and daughters so he kills himself. So basically, what I'm saying is that Gusanoman was an incel

 No.1031800

I'm gonna assume that you created this thread in earnest and not as a shitpost…Gonzaloids are the most uncritical and captured by their own perspective while autistically pushing out any other perspectives of all the groups on the left…this combined with the fact that gonzalo has become a left meme makes it so you should never bother arguing with gonzaloids, they're either baiting you or are genuine retardos

 No.1031803

>>1031707
>break your enemy's spirit
I love materialism!!!!!!

 No.1031823

File: 1656107408991.jpg (41.02 KB, 640x554, Average Gonzaloid.jpg)

Average Gonzaloid

 No.1031824

>>1031757
>the sterilisations begin in 1995
no, they don't, planned since 1991, executed in 1992, pumped up in 1993.

In 1991, a new National Population Program was developed by Fujimori's National Population Council.[13] With the compliance of Fujimori, plans for a coup as designed in Plan Verde were prepared over a two-year period and finally executed during the 1992 Peruvian coup d'état, which ultimately established a civilian-military regime and began the institution of objectives presented in Plan Verde.[14][15][16] In 1993, a National Report on Population and Development of the Fujimori government argued that the previous program was insufficient and promoted large expansions for the program

cope harder opinion haver, you are dealing with fact gang

 No.1031869

I needed to correct the format
>Fact gang
By doing a 5 minute research I can get that you are just copypasting wikipedia.
<The victims of forced sterilizations in Peru continue to demand justice
>In Peru, during the government of Alberto Fujimori, 244,234 women and 20,693 men were irreversibly sterilized as part of national family planning policies (1996- 1999). These forced surgical procedures were denounced as violations of human rights, especially of indigenous populations in rural areas. Currently, 1,321 women continue to pursue the legal process of seeking justice against a policy that infringed their rights over two decades ago.

 No.1031928

>>1031800
>Tfw slaughtering infants doesn't "break the enemy's will" at all but instead leads more and more peasants into utterly despising you and helping the army kill you
Lol
Lmao even

 No.1032020

>>1031869
https://www.ncregister.com/news/fujimori-re-imprisonment-and-peru-s-forgotten-forced-sterilization-program

>The program began in 1993 and ended in 2000. The worst years were 1996 and 1997, when some 200,000 women were forcibly sterilized.


there are sources which say 1992, some say 1993 like this one, you originally said 1995.

 No.1032089

>>1032020
Yeah, my mistake. You hace posted a news article, so did . But all the literature I found, all of it, refers one to the period of 1996-1999. To all those who may lurk around here, why 1991, why 1996?
It is because in 1995 it was approved a law that introduced surgery as a contraceptive mode. Then, all mayhem started.

>Three months after President Fujimori took office in 1990, he announced a “birth control policy” as a way to bring equal access to con- traception for the nation’s poor. At that time, however, high inflation, a lack of public funding, a focus on the internal conflict, and legal barriers in place against sterilizations forced the government to proceed slowly despite its support for reforms in family planning programs in Peru. Fujimori’s reelection gave his regime a strong mandate for implementing its plans, and in 1995, Congress approved a modification of the National Population Law of 1985 to permit sterilization as a family planning method.

 No.1032107

>>1032089
So, would you agree then it planned before 1996, even as early as 1990 when they made the first plan Verde. I think it reasonable looking a the dates that perhaps the groundwork was laid in the early 1990s, for it to expand and reach its peak in the mid.

By my reckoning then, they would have been planning and executing when SP was still operational, regardless, it shows you who they were, that is not even to mention all of the other crimes committed by them and by Garcia’s admin.

 No.1032123

File: 1656113993213.jpg (Spoiler Image, 16.94 KB, 474x272, meeting.jpg)

>>1032107
Amazing what US trained troops can think and manage to put into agenda right?
Still does not justify the Shining Path. Reminder that Gonzalo & Cia surrendered to them

 No.1032150

>>1032123
It does, considering everything else

 No.1032159

Would say that, had he won that this probably would have been prevented?

 No.1032167

>>1032159
>>1032150
>Has no moral ground and has to go to go into Uchronias now to keep justifiying it
Hahahaha, so much for the 4th sword of marxism, guarantee of victory,etc.

 No.1032180

>>1032167
Oh did he use some spicy rhetoric in his broadcasts? Golly gosh worse than outright fascism that is

 No.1032276

>>1032180
>The problem is spicy rhetoric
<Entire thread is about the act of brutally murdering innocents exactly like the military was doing to terrify and command obedience from the peasants (exact same reasons as Shining Path)

 No.1032351

Recordatorio que solo primermundistas imbeciles y otros ultras soportan a sendero luminoso, todos los de Latam, excepto por los cultitas gonzaloides, saben que SL la cagaron en grande, y destruyeron cualquier oportunidad de revolucion socialista en Peru e incluso otras partes de Latam, todo por su estupido dogmatismo, violencia a las masas y oportunismo. Eso sin contar el hecho que andaban cargandose a otros socialistas y comunistas por no adoptar el "pensamiento gonzalo".
Asi que a cagar ultras primermundistas :^)

 No.1032430

>>1029681
Nadie responde a tus argumentos porque no justifican absolutamente nada, ni siquiera responden a las criticas principales de SL, que son de que basicamente era un culto a Gonzalo y al pensamiento Gonzalo, y que en su dogmatismo y fanatismo, en lugar de usarlo para atacar a las fuerzas del estado, lo usaron oara masacrar a poblaciones indigenas y crear un movimiento mas y mas sectario, basandose solo en lo que el lider gonzalo dijera.
Si lo de Lucanamarca, al principio, fue considerada una ofensiva contra la "reaccion" y contra el "estado", entonces desde el principio, su forma de crear ofensivas y de luchar contra el estado fue erronea.
Incluso los grupos guerrilleros que vinieron antes de ellos de latam no eran tan extremos en ese sentido, cuando realizaban algun operativo revolucionario buscaban siempre minimizar o evitar cualquier daño colateral, pues sabian que eso seria usado como propaganda contra ellos.
SL en lugar de enfocarse en crear bases mas solidas de apoyo, de luchar contra el estado y mejorar las condiciones en general de la gente, parece que hicieron todo lo contrario, destruyendo a otros comunistas y masacrando a poblaciones indigenas.
Y si vas a justificar esas masacres con el clasico "pero el estado lo hizo primero, y peor", entonces SL fue tan malo como el estado, al no ofrecer ninguna solucion al monopolio de violencia de este, mas que mas violencia contra la poblacion y un discursillo cultista en todos los sentidos.

Y no, no te contestare en ingles, angloide probablemente :^).

 No.1032461

>>1032351
>>1032430
Para bailar la bamba se necesita una poca de gracia

 No.1032537

>>1029681
>In fact, I have posted more facts than anybody else,
While conveniently forgetting or downplaying the facts that were posted in response.
>one which no anti gonzalo poster has even bothered to engage with.
We did engage with it. The thing is you talk of the rightousness of Gonzalo's cause, yet when you bring up "he was fighting le heckin CIA", this is a non-argument. There were other non-communist/ anarchist factions who fought the white army, should we throw in our lot behind them uncritically because they too fought the white army?

>I don't even no what we are still arguing about.

You're arguing that Gonzalo was a true revolutionary and should be shown sympathy. But again, outside of Lucanamarca, this guy brutalised and attacked and killed other peasant forces and indigenous people who were under their control.

>I have said several times, lucanamarca was a mistake.

Yet you deny that the shining path opressed indigenous communities.

>Okay, lets say it, you are correct on that.

Thank you, I accept your surrender.

>All of you obsessive, weird freaks who scream about this one point are correct about that point. I will make no further arguments against it, now, if you will, kindly, do me the solid of answering all these other points, which none of you have done, I ask for a 7th time

I already provided arguments as to why the shining path was shit outside of the Lucanamarca massacre here:
>>1028475
>>1028331
>>1028445

You then default about making it about making it all about Lucanamarca and saying it was a mistake, without adressing the other communities the Shining Path repressed in the links I provided.

You're a douchebag, anon.

 No.1032886

>>1028013
>Guzman has visigoth origin and literally means "goodman"

 No.1033019

>>1031537
lmfao perfect

 No.1033682

>>1028475
>APOLOGISE
Literally doesn't make a difference. Liberal respectability politics.
>Lenin and Mao created socialist republics
under entirely different circumstances.
>the difference between them and Gonzalo is that they actually took time to self crit and contributed theory
literally in the quote which is used by Gonzalo to freak out about lucanamarca, he self crits.
> and contributed theory
He did contribute to theory
>the overall betterment of their people.
He did make things better for many people, who gained protection, education and so on. Unless you are gonna say some shit like "actually he caused the reactionary state to kill people" which would be victim blaming.
>Gonzalo on the other hand only brutalised those who supported them
actually he brutalised people who didn't support them
>The PKK and the ACP may call China revisionist, but they don't go out of their way to bomb their embassies.
China isn't actively supporting the enemies of the PKK
>Except they wouldn't. Not even the USSR gets off scott free from the crime of genocide relating to the deportation of Volga Germans, Crimean Tartars and Chechneans- difference being is that they actually apologised and re-compensated them for this crime.
On this website, it does, and, they lived long enough to apologise, they did not do so at the time.


>>1028331
>An argument is a statement backed with evidence, you on the other hand are just throwing around rhetoric
no that is what you are doing, I have literally presented various pieces of evidence, about the statistics from the t a r comission report, about forced sterilisation, about massacres comitted by the state etc

you have just given opinions and posted fucking bad empanda lmao.

>oooh the people said a thing.


here is what someobody who actually went to region and studied the problem properly found

https://oxfordre.com/view/10.1093/acrefore/9780199366439.001.0001/acrefore-9780199366439-e-495

>Even after President Alejandro Toledo increased the number of commissioners to twelve from seven (adding Ames, Arias, Lay, Antúndez, Morote, and the observer Bambarén), the commissioners still reflected elite sectors of Peru least affected by the violence. All were residents of Lima, all were urban dwellers, only one spoke Quechua, only one understood it, and none self-identified as Indigenous or campesino. As Commissioner Carlos Iván Degregori later commented, “even the composition of the CVR reflected the gaps in the country” that underlay the political violence


>It is crucial to remember that survivors of the violence made decisions about what they would and would not share with the CVR. Anthropologist Kimberly Theidon observed that in many rural Ayacucho communities devastated by the violence, campesinos held local assemblies prior to the arrival of the CVR’s testimonial teams. At those assemblies, community authorities decided what local residents should say and what they should leave unsaid, lest some community members’ initial support for Shining Path militants somehow cast the community as less deserving of reparations. As Theidon notes, “There was an effort to close narrative ranks, prompted by the many secrets people keep about a lengthy fratricidal conflict and the numerous expectations a commission generates.”


>The CVR also conducted interviews with more than one thousand leaders and rank-and-file members of the Shining Path and MRTA. Commissioners decided against allowing any of these individuals to participate in the public hearings,


>Politicians from the period, including former president Alan García, gave testimonies and participated in public hearings.


>Some have also argued that the CVR was too narrow in its focus, upset that the Final Report did not highlight their communities’ experiences or investigate their claims. Others contend that the CVR should have discussed the forced sterilizations carried out by the Fujimori government’s Family Planning Program. Those sterilizations of over two hundred thousand predominantly impoverished women of Indigenous descent occurred without informed consent and sometimes against the women’s will, often with grave health consequences


>>1028445
>nor did they say that what they did was wrong, but rather "was an excess".
a semantic argument, not many people see excess as a good thing

>People such as Ho Chi Minh, Abdullah Ocalan AND EVEN FUCKING GADAFFI actually made efforts to recompensate and denounce these excesses of revolutionary violence.

from what position

>So how is killing peasants and children via machette attacks who have no ties to government or the state a revolutionary act?

you claim to have engaged in all these posts.

I can see 2 general points that you have made, point 1) made over and over again, and to be frank, totally boring, is that they did violence, that was bad, and in your opinion, wasn't justified, even given the situation, state of governance and history and context of Peru, they did very bad violence, and under no circumstances can these incidents be considered the sad result of a necessary war, rather they are just the wanton violence of evil and bad people. On this point, we have talked to death. I feel as if you have been given many different pieces of evidence describe the situaiton which meant it fact, it was a necessary war, and a necessarily brutal war, and you haven't answered them at all.

2) The point made here: "as I explained, they opressed indigenous communities by killing their leaders, stealing their food while offering nothing in return, banned indigenous festivals and ceremonies and any criticism of them was met with either death threats or with death itself. "

which, you give no source for, no context of source, etc, and sounds literally identical to crits of the soviet union involving the holodomor etc.

literally: they stole grain from the innocent peasants.

Gonna need a source for all this, and also, I want you to respond in turn to my points here:

like I have done for you >>1029681

specifically, you have failed to ackowledge the sterilisation programs of the Fujimori govt,

as well as this, the whole rest of that post, where I describe the nature of Latin America at the time, to which you respond:

>yet when you bring up "he was fighting le heckin CIA", this is a non-argument.

no, it isn't a non argument, its an extremely valid argument. You are simply focussing on only precisely what the SP did in specific moments of violence, ignoring entirely the picture around that, which is that they were 40 years into a continent wide, extremely brutal struggle against CIA backed narco imperialism, this point in history is OBJECTIVELY the most violence period in the history of Latin America, coinciding with Pablo Escobar in Columbia, the Contras in Nicaragua, similar goings on in El Salvador, Honduras. This is all one struggle, the national borders between it mean nothing to the CIA.

What did Peru, Columbia and Nicargua have firmly in common? Its literally the same drug route, all the way down, the operation is the same.

This is what the Shining Path were up against. I also didn't just talk about the CIA, i talked about Peru's extremely unstable political history, of coup after coup, you did not respond to this.

I also talked about other abortive Guerrilla movements, previously stomped out by the CIA, how the SP are actually, objectively, the most successful in several waves of this, which you did not respond to. If you can point to a more successful Peruvian Guerrilla movement, please point to it.

 No.1033684

>>1032537

Now, considering Latin America in general and Guerrilla movements. Many come to mind, we've got the Cuban revolution, the FSLN, the tupamoros, the National Liberation Army in El Salvador, Guerrilas in Bolivia backed by che Guevara, in Brazil, there is FARC/ELN, there is the Zapatista. Others besides.

On balance, which have been the most successful? Cuba, The FSLN then who is next? You could say the zapatistas probably, over a small area. Then who? In fact, weighing up all the facts, the shining path are the next most successful of all these.

Yet I do not hear ever complaints about all these other failed guerrila movements, FARC in particular were extremely violent, kiddnapping random people and so on. Torturing indigenous people, etc etc.

This is the bloody history of a continent made bloody by imperialism. Discussing that context is absolutely and completely an argument, indeed, it is the first consideration in our argument, are we to be talking from and a socialist, anti imperialist perspective.

>There were other non-communist/ anarchist factions who fought the white army, should we throw in our lot behind them uncritically because they too fought the white army?

my question is literally, whom do you throw your lot in with, in this situation? CIA, Shining Path, Tupac Gang? Magic option number three? Some mythical idea of the poor brutalised non politicised, indigenous, lacking entirely agency?

> But again, outside of Lucanamarca, this guy brutalised and attacked and killed other peasant forces and indigenous people who were under their control.

yes, in an open warzone

>Yet you deny that the shining path opressed indigenous communities.

in the sense that revolutionary violence has always been oppressive sure, they did that yeh.

>without adressing the other communities the Shining Path repressed in the links I provided.

excuse me for not in turn expressing the exact context of these mythical places you claim to have provided… yet… there literally aren't any links in these posts that isn't to that bad empanda video, who is bad empanda getting his material from? What source? What specifically does it say?

you are the douchebag.

 No.1033692

>>1033682
>He did contribute to theory
No

 No.1033710

>>1033692
He formed the theory which advanced class struggle in Peru far beyond what it has ever been before or since

 No.1033722

>>1033710
he advanced absolutely jack shit, especially not class struggle lmao

 No.1033743

>>1033722
Name a time in which class struggle has been more successful in Peru

 No.1033747

>>1033743
Tell me how exactly class struggle has been successful in Peru lol

 No.1033769

>>1033747
During the time of the shining path a communist party controlled significant parts of the country.

Name a time it has been better than this?

 No.1033782

>>1033769
You forgot the next part :^)
>While controling the majority of the countryside, they proceded to massacre indigenious people, calling them reactionaries and enemies of the revolution (yes, even the children).
>Also, they didn't made any significative change in the economic relations of the peasants and other liberated towns, instead, they became, in the eyes of residents of those towns, just as much parasitic as the goverment, refusing to help or to work, and even calling old indigenous traditions as bourgoise and reactionary.
And obviously the best part:
>When the leader of the SP, gonzalo, got captured, the whole movement started to fall appart, leaving only a bunch of drug trafficking guerrillas behind with no real hope of doing the same thing they did at the start of their war.

 No.1033786

>>1033782
>same old shit, already discussed
When has it been better?

 No.1034097

>>1033692
Yes he did, he invented marxism-leninism with death cult characteristics !


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