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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1655968367972.png (402.36 KB, 680x703, 1633260222406.png)

 No.1028529

READING
http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
For a complete reading list, see: https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2020/05/01/two-reading-lists/

Cockshott's Patreon, YouTube, Twitter and blogs
https://www.patreon.com/williamCockshott/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVBfIU1_zO-P_R9keEGdDHQ
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/
http://paulcockshott.co.uk/
https://twitter.com/PaulCockshott

Videos torrent archive
Here's the torrent with all of Paul Cockshott's YouTube channel videos up to 27/10/2020 (i.e. Eliminating inequality):
Magnet link:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d5e5cc7a91228fef2ea213f816b27cfea8185961&dn=Paul%5FCockshott%5F%28October%5F27th%5F2020%29&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.me%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.internetwarriors.net%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.cyberia.is%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fexplodie.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fp4p.arenabg.ch%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftracker1.itzmx.com%3A8080%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker3.itzmx.com%3A6961%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.zerobytes.xyz%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.tiny-vps.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ds.is%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.stealth.si%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.si%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3A451%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fretracker.lanta-net.ru%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fopen.acgnxtracker.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.moeking.me%3A6969%2Fannounce
Torrent file:
https://anonymousfiles.io/RileL0Sn/

This thread is for the discussion of cybersocialism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and of course the great immortal scientist himself, WILLIAM PAUL COCKSHOTT.

Archives of previous thread
1) https://archive.is/uNCEY
2) https://web.archive.org/web/20201218152831/https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/997358.html
3) https://archive.ph/uyggp

 No.1028535


 No.1028596

The outline in TANS is very crude and abstract. The harmony algorithm does not take in information about use-value similarity, nor is that information used for quantity/price adjustments in reaction to demand.

 No.1028598

>>1028529
>https://anonymousfiles.io/RileL0Sn/
redirects to public torrent site front page

 No.1028603

i like that cockshott has a special "gender" tab on his wordpress, very convenient
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/category/gender/

 No.1029437

>>1028603
its cringe i wish he'd shut the fuck up about terf shit and just concentrate on economic planning

 No.1029450

File: 1656015614206.png (47.15 KB, 773x869, lesbian.png)

>>1029437
why? he clearly thinks it's important enough to warrant a tab on his beloved wordpress
he even ties it into his ideas on "economic planning"

 No.1029455

>>1028603
It is sorta nice that he keeps that bullshit in a containment zone

 No.1029494

File: 1656016775716.jpeg (914.95 KB, 1280x1000, society.jpeg)

>>1029437
Threadly reminder

 No.1029500

>>1029494
feel like it would be better with a 'the fuck up'

 No.1029507

>>1029450
Haz/Maupin would instantly convert to Cockshotism if he read this paper

 No.1029521

File: 1656017384768.png (56.66 KB, 781x473, galaxy brain.png)

>>1029455
it's not a containment zone it's a big prominent tab on the navigation panel of his website, and it usually has more than one tag, usually "political economy" or "socialism"
>>1029494
cope harder, his reactionary politics are directly incorporated with his other writings
>>1029507
the christian guy? he'd love cockshott's obsession with women's reproduction

 No.1029533

File: 1656017678018.png (22.36 KB, 779x181, ok.png)

>>1029521
the conclusion of this article concedes that the economic effects of gay marriage are negligible anyways btw, so i guess he just wanted to be a reactionary

 No.1029538


 No.1029539

>>1029538
yeah, lgbt people live rent free in this guy's head

 No.1029540

File: 1656017798513.png (21.24 KB, 461x295, extrapolating.png)

>>1029450
hahahhah

 No.1029551

>>1029521
>cope harder, his reactionary politics are directly incorporated with his other writings
So what, it can easily be divorced from them as well. There's nothing about economic planning that requires us to buy Cockshotts weird gender takes, its just math

 No.1029556

>>1029551
>it can easily be divorced from them as well
there's no point, it's all shit
>its just math
yeah, just innocent non-political bad math

 No.1029562

File: 1656018847114.png (1018.12 KB, 1180x668, stfuliberal.png)

>>1029556
>there's no point, it's all shit
lol. so you admit you don't like cockshott for his other takes and you, just like all twitter radlibs are latching onto the TERF shit to have an excuse to attack him.

There's literally no difference between Cockshott's take and Marx in Critique of the Gotha Programme, its just expanded with linear algebra the calculations which would actually be needed. There's no way to implement Marx's program in Gothakritik, without becoming at least a partial de facto Cockshottist.

Cope more

 No.1029563

>>1029562
this is sad man
you're unironically caping for a senile british boomer that does laughably terrible math to justify his deep conservatism and barely socdem economic reformist politics and is obsessed with twitter, here on a half-dead imageboard
that's actually sad
i'm depressed now

 No.1029582

>>1029563
>Marx's program in gothakritik cannot be implemented without methods from numerical linear algebra as written by Cockshott
<NUUUU HES SENILE, HIS MATH BAD, HE CONSERVATIVE HE SUCCDEM, HE ON TWITTER
Is this what people with Cockshott Derangement Syndrome are all like?

Literally no one likes Cockshott because of reading his papers on gender. This is as dishonest as claiming people like Marx because of "On the Jewish Question". Yes he's a bit of a STEM autist, so what. Your posts are literally nothing but unsourced, unexplained shittery which are borderline spam tbh.

If you would like to make an informed critique on Cockshott's work on economic planning or political economy in general, go ahead. This thread and its predecessors has had many such debates on such matters, and economists such as Victor Magariño who actually did have informed critiques of Cockshott.

Any time people want to discuss his legitimately groundbreaking work on economic planning and refuting the Austrian calculation argument, some ass here bring up but what about muh LGBTQIAXYZS. I don't care.

 No.1029586

>>1029563
Cope and sneed

 No.1029602

>>1029582
On the Jewish Question isn’t Marx bringing up statistics about how the number of Jews increases when the numbers of Christians decreases and Jews need to be eradicated as a result, so not really a good comparison

 No.1029620

>>1029602
NTA but Marx's comments on Lassalle would be a better illustration of what >>1029582 meant.

 No.1029627

File: 1656020848389.png (134.3 KB, 450x308, radlib_hide.png)

>>1029602
>TERFS ARE NAZIS TERFS ARE NAZIS
This is how people can tell you are a twitter crossposter. I don't give a fuck about what he says on twitter because I don't go on that website at all. You've been infected with twitter Radlib cancel-brain.

You're acting like Cockshott is some uniquely reactionary force on the left which is a terminally burgerbrained radlib take, he's part of a whole wave of second-wave "gender critical" british boomer feminists. This doesn't excuse it but it does explain it other than calling him a nazbol.

In any case im going to stop responding to this obvious bait, I always wonder why CDS posters try to derail literally every thread with the bullshit.

 No.1029628

>>1029627
>why do people care about his opinion on this thing he talks about all the fucking time??

 No.1029640

>>1029627
>>1029628
Pretty sure if you shit up every discussion of Marx talking about his racism you'd be banned tbh

 No.1029644

>>1029642
basically it boils down to trans women aren't women.

 No.1029647

>>1029642
1) Crave attention
2) Have internet connection
3) Get attention by pretending the cybersoc thread is the Cockshott thread and insist everyone discusses idpol instead

 No.1029650

>>1029540
the resemblance is uncanny

 No.1029656

>>1029652
more of this honest bigotry, please
less of this passive-aggressive shit >>1029647

 No.1029658

Does anyone else think its a good idea to make a study group for maths? covering that book "math for economic planning"?

 No.1029659

>>1029656
Here you go sweetie
>>>/meta/21155

 No.1029662

>>1029657
>>1029659
what's based? is gay sex a no-no? c'mon you were doing so good

 No.1029666

>>1028529
can you upload the .torrent somewhere else? that site doesn't work for me and i can never retrieve metadata from magnets

 No.1029672

>>1029658
Cockshot talked about maths in his videos a few times, where he explained the material origins of math.
He explained a few mathematical concepts as historic lesson that explained what kind of problem people solved with maths. That made it so much more accessible. If you're just doing maths as symbol manipulation it's going to be a mental grind, and that's why most people have lost interest in maths by the time they are adults.
Here is another ones https://invidious.snopyta.org/watch?v=ekxcDrxJ3r4

If you try to do maths courses you should do the materialist style of explaining it.

 No.1029673


 No.1029682

>>1029666
OP here, sorry but I just copied the body from the last thread. Wasn't aware it was broken. In any case I hope someone creates a new torrent of a more updated version

 No.1029687

theres even more:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWgjWNU8oNU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FPQHKuxQwqE

this is probably not needed for all the economy but you can have nicer and more complete simulations of consturction etc

it is important for economy because this way you can tell/test how material is move and extracted. as well as how much lets say work or energy you need for this

then you enter this into tables and simulate large construction or even simulate its entire process (with some ai probably)

 No.1029690

and then you get final cost of it lol

 No.1029691

>>1029662
he makes liberals seethe hard

 No.1029699

File: 1656026118504.jpg (202.72 KB, 1000x1000, 20220620_154549.jpg)

So I might ask how is the development of the theoretical underpinnings of cybercom and computerized economic planning going? What unique breakthroughs occured within this field?
Because honestly it seems like these threads really just regurgitates the same fundamental aspects of the last. Literally nothing new

 No.1029700

>>1029647
>pretending the cybersoc thread is the Cockshott thread
uhhh

 No.1029701

>>1029582
What were magarino's critiques of cockshott?

 No.1029709


 No.1029712

>>1029699
Well you cant expect brand new breakthroughs every thread, science and research is hard. This is more of a discussion and understanding thread anyway. Cockshott has a new book coming out soon on planning with his former PHD student, should be lit

 No.1029713

Also I love how this thread quickly devolved into people shitflinging back and forth over paul cockshott's mostly irrelevant gender critical takes on a cybercom thread. Lmfao

 No.1029716

>>1029713
its not "back and forth" its one autist shitting up a non idpol thread with idpol BS

 No.1030083

File: 1656061695334.png (339.24 KB, 583x646, beer flare.png)

>someone beat me to creating a new OP
aw
btw, I feel like we should add more people/orgs to the OP beyond dickblast. for example cibcom.org for Spanish speakers. people like Beer need more mentioning
>>1029540
kek
paul needs to realize that you don't need to maintain population at any particular level. you can just let the plan adapt to whatever the population ends up being

 No.1030139

>>1030083
if cibcom doesn't create a forum section I'm thinking of creating a new website/forum specifically to discuss cybersocialism

 No.1030141

>>1030139
dew it. cibcom is aimed at the Spanish speaking world anyway

 No.1033086

Have you heard of this: Maximum Flow and Minimum-Cost Flow in Almost-Linear Time.
https://www.quantamagazine.org/researchers-achieve-absurdly-fast-algorithm-for-network-flow-20220608/
<A team of computer scientists has come up with a dramatically faster algorithm for one of the oldest problems in computer science: maximum flow. The problem asks how much material can flow through a network from a source to a destination if the links in the network have capacity limits.
Does Cockshott know about these recent developments? I'm not a programmer, but this seems highly relevant to me. And not just for delivery routes. We have several recipes for making the same product from different linear ingredient combinations, this must be part of the calculations (the harmony algorithm in its current form just assumes that there is only method per product), and it seems a similar problem (would be exactly identical if any two available recipes for the same product used any resources they both use in the same amount per unit produced).

 No.1033125

>>1033086
looks like this takes maximum flow from O(VE) to a little over O(E). nice. but planning is more complicated than just maximum flow. multi-commodity flows are more relevant
also Cockshott's harmony algorithm is a meme. it's just a shitty barrier method. read the LP literature and you will find many algorithms, most of which are better and have certain guaranteed properties like never violating feasibility

 No.1033275

>>1033125
Could you be more specific than the LP literature? What is the fastest way to compute a method mix to maximize the number of units of a product with a given set of resources and recipes? And what is the fastest way to compute this for a basket of outputs and the task of maximizing these basket units?

 No.1033326

>>1033275
that depends on the size and nature of the problem. for sufficiently large problems you will never get an optimal solution. but in general you do this:
1. formulate the problem as a linear program
2. solve the linear program using glpk or lp_solve or your own solver
3. convert the LP solution to a solution to the original problem
for certain classes or problems there are faster solvers. a maximum flow solver will obviously be faster than a generic LP solver applied to the same problem

 No.1033328

I wish I could learn this shit but my maths skills and executive functioning are so bad loles. Intuitively or whatever I can understand the utility of it though.

 No.1033343

>>1033328
programming trigonometry for babby's first platformer is harder than this smoothbrain shit

 No.1033364

>>1033343
well I can't do that either so

 No.1033382

Cockshott gets $49 a month patreon. Hasan makes 2 million a month.. We're never gonna make it bros huh :(

 No.1033631

>>1033382
cockshott has an actual pension to live off of

 No.1033822

>>1033326
>in general you do this
Yeah yeah. But let's be specific. I believe it is likely that the labor-time quantities for the different products in the plan follow a power law and that the number of alternative recipes for a product also follows a power law and that a product's recipe number is positively correlated with person hours to make the product's target quantity (since the target quantity in the present correlates with the target quantity in the past & and the more people have worked on making something, the more ideas they tend to have about how to make it) and that the number of products/processes this or that input can be used for also follows a power law.

If an unsorted list of numbers follows a power law distribution, it makes sense to use a sorting algorithm tailored to such distribution. It's a similar situation here.

 No.1034162

>>1033822
what you are getting at is the fact that solvers and in particular heuristics tend to be tailored to each specific problem. therefore it's nearly useless to ask this until we actually have some kind of concrete system in place with real people involved. an actual humans-in-the-loop situation
you can if you want synthesize problems like what you describe and announce a competition to solve them as fast as possible on a given machine
you are right that input-output planning sucks and that we must be able to handle rectangular systems with joint production. dave zachariah is working on that

 No.1034222

>>1033382
that's because ADHD zoomers can't watch a theory-heavy, static powerpoint presentation like Cockshott's for more than a minute. On the other hand, if he had a visual effects team on the level of PragerU to explain his ideas Cockshott would have tons of followers and patreons. I really hope we get to that one day.

 No.1034291

>>1034222
hakim has a video editor now and he's a cockshott fan. maybe we can get them all together somehow?

 No.1034593

>>1033382
its not about patreon but many good things or ideas are not properly supported (and probably can't be properly supported by mostly plebs that you have at these platforms)

same as expecting plebs to sponsor internet development in late 80s or nuclear power in 40s

 No.1034609

>>1034593
>same as expecting plebs to sponsor internet development in late 80s or nuclear power in 40s


they probably think thats killing catholic children too


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