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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1659563038892.png (242.71 KB, 500x281, ClipboardImage.png)

 No.1103599

i have found an easy way to explain surplus labor value to normies without using the terms "marx" "marxism" "socialism" "communism" "surplus labor value" "socially necessary labor time" "commodity" "bourgeoisie" "proletariat" etc.

It's very simple

You start by pointing out two very simple facts:

1. The boss can't pay you more than your work is worth, because he would run out of business

2. The boss can't pay you exactly what your work is worth because then he wouldn't be able to skim profit off of it

3. therefore the boss pays you less than what your work is worth, uses the difference to profit, grow the company, and hire more people who he also pays less than what their work is worth.

 No.1103603

marx takes several chapters before making this point in das kapital

 No.1103629

File: 1659564219484.png (809.74 KB, 900x1300, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1103676

File: 1659566804614.png (1.52 MB, 1113x794, surplus value.png)

just use picrel

 No.1103697

File: 1659568308435.png (493.01 KB, 559x720, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1103783


 No.1103795

File: 1659572926535.png (206.26 KB, 512x512, 1624390930444.png)

>>1103599
But they could argue that, according to the Subjective Theory of Value, their boss is the one who is primarily giving the commodities value, as they are the ones who own the firm.

 No.1103803

>>1103795
all the while you are making 3 lists

based list
>people who agree

cringe list 1
<unsure people

cringe list 2
<people who talk about subjective value theory

list 1: unionize
list 2: wedgie
list 3:

 No.1103857

File: 1659575130092.jpg (55.26 KB, 640x360, boondicks.jpg)

>>1103603
Marx is shit at conveying ideas.

­

Yeah, I said it.

 No.1103858

>>1103857
i once floated the idea of rewriting capital in modern english and making it more plain spoken. a lot of people ridiculed the idea, said it was revisionist, etc, but I still like the idea.

 No.1103860

>>1103629
synthesis: read The Art of War instead of economics books that only economists have a need to care about

 No.1103861

>>1103857
Remembering the time that Engels complained about the prose in the section off capital ch. 1 on the form of value

 No.1103862

>>1103857
>>1103858
There's a manga adaptation of Capital btw.

 No.1103863

>>1103858
…there is literally nothing wrong with that idea, so long as you're either keeping it very faithful to the source, or making it very clear that it's a variant. Someone would have had to have done this by not, right?

>>1103862
Yeah is it any good? Tempted to give it a shot.

 No.1103866

Everyone is aware companies profit from your work, not sure why you are assuming 'normies' don't know that. The thing is explaining why it's bad

 No.1103871

File: 1659575750977.jpg (38.91 KB, 877x900, ip donut steel.jpg)

I wish to remind everyone that Robin Hood was the criminal villain.

Thank you all, and good night.

 No.1103906

it's not exactly that the boss pays you less than your labor is worth - it's a fact of labor-power that it produces more than it takes to re-produce it. As a commodity it creates other commodities, the value it creates is always in excess of itself. You're not able to see the fruits of the value you create due to private appropriation of that value - and so you're alienated from your labor, by trading in this generative power for exchange value that's identical with itself.

The problem isn't that you're not paid the full value of what you create - you're paid enough to reproduce your labor, and you're paid according to the market value of your labor. The problem also is not that your labor is generative of value in excess of its requirements (its reproduction). The problem is that this surplus goes directly into private hands, whose only goal is profit maximization and competition. So it gets pulled into value-destroying schemes, kept away from the mass of society, and as the productive forces grow the power of the capitalists grows while we stay at or temporarily above of below our baseline living standard needed to reproduce our labor.

But anyways, your boss does probably pay you what your work is worth. No one will buy your labor-power if there isnt a sufficient margin for profitability on it. You as a seller of your labor are beholden to the market. The problem is not in the arena of the market, but in the production process, by which the fruits of your labor are, i'll say it again, privately appropriated, while both you and the capitalists are engaged in a socialized process of production. The answer Marx gives is to socially appropriate this surplus, which removes the position of the bourgeoisie as a class and necessitates a democratic society, now composed of proletarians, in which the people dictate the ends of the production they take part in.

Like another comrade said, surplus value is basically self evident if you know anything about businesses, really just the fact that they make profits, and the management mostly sit on their asses and don't contribute to the realization of any value (generally) in the commodities they oversee the production and distribution of. But if you focus on this point, you'll just get people to become economists.

 No.1103912

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>>1103906
>it's not exactly that the boss pays you less than your labor is worth
yes it is.

 No.1103914

>>1103912
You would be paid less than your labor worth under socialism too

 No.1103915

>>1103858
I think that would be a fun collaborative project

 No.1103917


 No.1103919

File: 1659578441082.png (58.08 KB, 474x266, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1103914
>You would be paid less than your labor worth under socialism too
i would still be paid better, receive better benefits, pay less rent, and so on.

 No.1103954

>>1103914
not on MY socialism with 0 taxes or state appropriation of surplus

 No.1103975

>>1103917
>flick to random page
>there's a sex scene on p147-148

 No.1103994

>>1103866
>Everyone is aware companies profit from your work

no they aren't . lot's of people think the boss works harder or is some kind of "genius" or "innovator" and that makes their labor worth 10000000 times more.

 No.1104008

File: 1659582004189.png (397.12 KB, 1080x1579, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1103866
>Everyone is aware companies profit from your work

i wish

 No.1104020

>>1103919
maybe in the very lowest stage of socialism, you will receive a wage, pay rent, etc. But wtf do you think socialism is? Jeez

 No.1104065

>>1103858
The USSR did that.

 No.1104067

>>1104020
Socialism is whatever self described socialists who are in power do

 No.1104173

>>1104020
after the revolution and before the state withers away, when the working class owns the means of production but the commodity form still exists

 No.1104182

File: 1659585333789.gif (1.84 MB, 325x244, beam me up.gif)

>>1104118
>You're not getting it at all. You think you get it, but you don't.
<proceeds to say how everyone already gets it

lol

 No.1104251

>>1104067
this is indefensible braindead bullshit
>>1104173
there's still no defense for rents - they can be abolished overnight with no ill effects, and wages can quickly be replaced with labor vouchers as soon as the direction of production is firmly in the hands of the working class. The main reason for the commodity form persisting in socialist countries was that they had to make strategic alliances with peasants, petite-bourg, and national bourgeoisie even depending on the case. In other words, their revolution was tenuous, and they had to carry out a process of removing bourgeois elements (which ultimately failed everywhere, with revisionism proving triumphant). In any strong and healthy socialist revolution, with the proletariat firmly in charge, aka in a developed country, there's pretty much no excuse for holding on to commodity production as soon as the ability to coordinate production and take census of consumption needs is developed/learned/organized.

 No.1104317

>>1104065
preach my uygha

 No.1104324

>>1104065
oh shit; thank you

 No.1104331

>>1104008
>Elon Musk in the working class and the local school board in the ruling class.

The fuck is this retard talking about? How is a billionaire considered "Working Class" and a bunch of teachers part of the "ruling class"? How the fuck does that even work?

 No.1104425

>>1104331
the school board is BIG GUBBERMINT
elon musk is a INNOVATIVE MAVERICK

this is the thinking of the cucked american lolbertarian

 No.1104430

>>1104251
Idealist tripe

 No.1104759

>>1103629
Bottom image should just be big bill haywood

 No.1104805

>>1103858
Sure why not. Let’s do it now.

 No.1104890

Boss makes a dollar
I make a dime
That's why I poop
On company time

 No.1105094

>>1103858
can i get in on this project?

we can do chapter by chapter, use our own words to translate what's been written essentially. dumb it down into a few important sentences.

 No.1105096

>>1104008
in other words. people with empathy and serve humanity vs. psychopaths serving themselves

 No.1105126


 No.1105137

>>1103866
Not everyone, but many people know it and they want to become the boss. That is the rpomise of capitalism.

 No.1105142

>>1103914
Oh no, I'm only going to be paid 80-90% the value of my labor instead of 10-30% that I get now. Welp, guess we'll just stick with capitalism.

 No.1105146

>>1105142
Who told you you would get paid 80 or 90% lmao

 No.1105493

>>1105434
Get a job loser

 No.1105502

>>1105498
Sorry I meant
Get a real job loser

 No.1105520

>>1105507
They're always desperate for workers in the construction, mining and shipping industry son

Just walk up to the manager shake their hand and ask for a job. If your business isn't making money It's not a business it's a hobby and hobbies are irrelevant to the topic

 No.1105554

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 No.1105558

File: 1659643601200.png (724.74 KB, 751x1063, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1105554
>/leftypol/

 No.1105559

>>1105524
Yes your business isn't a real job son

 No.1105561

>>1105146
People objectively had better pay, better benefits, lower rents, and better health care under the soviet system than they do under the post-soviet system. Seethe and cope.

 No.1105564

>>1105558
Speak for yourself. I've had several manual labor jobs. Kys.

office workers are still comrades anyway, stop trying to divide wage workers over fake bullshit

 No.1105570

>>1105564
what are some famous office worker strikes in history?

The last one I remember was trans Netflix workers organizing in favor of the company hiring more trans ppl or some shit like that.

 No.1105591

>>1105570
https://libcom.org/article/office-workers-strike-san-francisco-1981

https://news.yahoo.com/passport-office-workers-strike-amid-applications-backlog-090449028.html

yes you're generally correct that office workers strike less often and their strikes aren't as glorious and well remembered but trying to ostracize them from the larger working class is stupid. You want them to show solidarity and engage in more labor action. I say this as someone who's laid carpet, laid tile, and loaded/unload trucks for a living. Office work actually is bad for people's health. It makes them too sedentary, it fucks up their backs, it causes nerve problems in the extremities. I do not envy the immobile office workers and think they deserve better treatment just like blue collar workers do. As long as they're workers, and not owners.

Also, since offices are the bureaucratic hubs of processing information and managing logistics for porky, shutting down that entire nexus can have far reaching effects and gives us a lot of leverage in the larger working class struggle.

 No.1105594

File: 1659645372885.png (157.11 KB, 711x230, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1105612

>>1105594
Marx didn't account for people with attention spans fried by internet use. He should have just made all his main points in easy to digest memes.

 No.1105625

>>1105562
Ok lad I've been a bit harsh going ham on the get a job boomer maymay

What I'm getting at is that your case is irrelevant to the argument in OP

You're not a business in the sense of the analysis you're a loser in it. If you don't profit your business can't continue indefinitely and OP doesn't apply because by the logic of capital your endeavour doesn't exist

 No.1105632

>>1105594

all philosophy is like this because they have to preempt millions of retards trying to do cheap gotchas and um actually

 No.1105638

>>1105636

Ignore him, he’s trolling

 No.1105639

>>1103599
This is obvious to you, but libs will bend over backwards to deny it.
I literally just had a discussion with lib friends to the point of absurdity. Some were less ideologized and saw it as obviously true. Others had to resort to out-of-their-ass theories of where surplus value came from, borderline spiritual shit.

 No.1105739

>>1105639
piss in their mouths

 No.1106242

File: 1659676252565.png (73.03 KB, 861x411, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1103954
juchegang

 No.1106277

>>1103795
and they would be wrong,
that's a perspective issue

 No.1106609

Wait a second, is this something people will even deny? I thought this was just basic common sense even to libs.

 No.1106618

>>1103857
you're just retarded

 No.1107206

>>1106609
Yes.
People think profit comes from the owner being paid more than he paid to make it and all his employees just happen to be paid some amount.

 No.1107231

>>1103603
Yeah, and where is Marx now?

 No.1107251

>>1107231
51.5662°N 0.1439°W, apparently.

 No.1107301


 No.1107334

>>1103599
why are you trying to trick people in the first place. If they are too scared to admit the ideas are correct because they mean Marx was right, call them uyghur cucks and move on

 No.1107881

>>1103906
this is how i like to imagine it

abstract human value is essentially the collective sum of all human creative potential.

the problem at the moment is that most capitalists or rich people have no concerns about the potential itself (such as truth seeking, scientific innovation, bringing humans to mars, whatever) they just want to compete with each other through wealth hoarding. so a lot of wealth is kind of wasted into frivolous things like creating suppy and demand, showing off however many cars/houses, being on forbes top 100. and so on and so forth.

instead of distributing resources for better things, it gets funneled into the hands of the few who are instead sitting on top of huge amounts of wealth and due to greed/infinite desire only care about gaining more material wealth. human potential is essentially collected and directed towards a game of selling commodity and wealth hoarding.

we are also essentially rewarding bosses when they come up with a creative idea with abnormal amounts of wealth which is extremely unequal to how valuable that idea is.

like any guy who is on his own island can think up of a hotdog shop since he has all the conditions which make that easy to conjure but not every guy can come up with idk marxist theory?

so the problem is really with the price tag we put on specific human potential/creativity/ideas. the fact that jeff bezos got a billion bucks for thinking up of an online supermarket & us rewarding him with the "risk" of putting that idea to action, whereas a budding scientist who could have the solution to solve world issues is somewhere in the world begging for grants or working at a supermarket stocking bananas what is wrong with this whole system.

 No.1107885

>>1107231
inside your walls

 No.1108094

>>1105570
>muh trans
and once again the people who think worker = overalls and hardhat prove to be reactionary turds with nothing of value to say

 No.1108129

>>1108094
>worker = overalls and hardhat
wasn't his point at all


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