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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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i have found an easy way to explain surplus labor value to normies without using the terms "marx" "marxism" "socialism" "communism" "surplus labor value" "socially necessary labor time" "commodity" "bourgeoisie" "proletariat" etc.

It's very simple

You start by pointing out two very simple facts:

1. The boss can't pay you more than your work is worth, because he would run out of business

2. The boss can't pay you exactly what your work is worth because then he wouldn't be able to skim profit off of it

3. therefore the boss pays you less than what your work is worth, uses the difference to profit, grow the company, and hire more people who he also pays less than what their work is worth.


marx takes several chapters before making this point in das kapital


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just use picrel


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But they could argue that, according to the Subjective Theory of Value, their boss is the one who is primarily giving the commodities value, as they are the ones who own the firm.


all the while you are making 3 lists

based list
>people who agree

cringe list 1
<unsure people

cringe list 2
<people who talk about subjective value theory

list 1: unionize
list 2: wedgie
list 3:


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Marx is shit at conveying ideas.


Yeah, I said it.


i once floated the idea of rewriting capital in modern english and making it more plain spoken. a lot of people ridiculed the idea, said it was revisionist, etc, but I still like the idea.


synthesis: read The Art of War instead of economics books that only economists have a need to care about


Remembering the time that Engels complained about the prose in the section off capital ch. 1 on the form of value


There's a manga adaptation of Capital btw.


…there is literally nothing wrong with that idea, so long as you're either keeping it very faithful to the source, or making it very clear that it's a variant. Someone would have had to have done this by not, right?

Yeah is it any good? Tempted to give it a shot.


Everyone is aware companies profit from your work, not sure why you are assuming 'normies' don't know that. The thing is explaining why it's bad


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I wish to remind everyone that Robin Hood was the criminal villain.

Thank you all, and good night.


it's not exactly that the boss pays you less than your labor is worth - it's a fact of labor-power that it produces more than it takes to re-produce it. As a commodity it creates other commodities, the value it creates is always in excess of itself. You're not able to see the fruits of the value you create due to private appropriation of that value - and so you're alienated from your labor, by trading in this generative power for exchange value that's identical with itself.

The problem isn't that you're not paid the full value of what you create - you're paid enough to reproduce your labor, and you're paid according to the market value of your labor. The problem also is not that your labor is generative of value in excess of its requirements (its reproduction). The problem is that this surplus goes directly into private hands, whose only goal is profit maximization and competition. So it gets pulled into value-destroying schemes, kept away from the mass of society, and as the productive forces grow the power of the capitalists grows while we stay at or temporarily above of below our baseline living standard needed to reproduce our labor.

But anyways, your boss does probably pay you what your work is worth. No one will buy your labor-power if there isnt a sufficient margin for profitability on it. You as a seller of your labor are beholden to the market. The problem is not in the arena of the market, but in the production process, by which the fruits of your labor are, i'll say it again, privately appropriated, while both you and the capitalists are engaged in a socialized process of production. The answer Marx gives is to socially appropriate this surplus, which removes the position of the bourgeoisie as a class and necessitates a democratic society, now composed of proletarians, in which the people dictate the ends of the production they take part in.

Like another comrade said, surplus value is basically self evident if you know anything about businesses, really just the fact that they make profits, and the management mostly sit on their asses and don't contribute to the realization of any value (generally) in the commodities they oversee the production and distribution of. But if you focus on this point, you'll just get people to become economists.


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>it's not exactly that the boss pays you less than your labor is worth
yes it is.


You would be paid less than your labor worth under socialism too


I think that would be a fun collaborative project



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>You would be paid less than your labor worth under socialism too
i would still be paid better, receive better benefits, pay less rent, and so on.


not on MY socialism with 0 taxes or state appropriation of surplus


>flick to random page
>there's a sex scene on p147-148


>Everyone is aware companies profit from your work

no they aren't . lot's of people think the boss works harder or is some kind of "genius" or "innovator" and that makes their labor worth 10000000 times more.


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>Everyone is aware companies profit from your work

i wish


maybe in the very lowest stage of socialism, you will receive a wage, pay rent, etc. But wtf do you think socialism is? Jeez


The USSR did that.


Socialism is whatever self described socialists who are in power do


after the revolution and before the state withers away, when the working class owns the means of production but the commodity form still exists


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>You're not getting it at all. You think you get it, but you don't.
<proceeds to say how everyone already gets it



this is indefensible braindead bullshit
there's still no defense for rents - they can be abolished overnight with no ill effects, and wages can quickly be replaced with labor vouchers as soon as the direction of production is firmly in the hands of the working class. The main reason for the commodity form persisting in socialist countries was that they had to make strategic alliances with peasants, petite-bourg, and national bourgeoisie even depending on the case. In other words, their revolution was tenuous, and they had to carry out a process of removing bourgeois elements (which ultimately failed everywhere, with revisionism proving triumphant). In any strong and healthy socialist revolution, with the proletariat firmly in charge, aka in a developed country, there's pretty much no excuse for holding on to commodity production as soon as the ability to coordinate production and take census of consumption needs is developed/learned/organized.


preach my uygha


oh shit; thank you


>Elon Musk in the working class and the local school board in the ruling class.

The fuck is this retard talking about? How is a billionaire considered "Working Class" and a bunch of teachers part of the "ruling class"? How the fuck does that even work?


the school board is BIG GUBBERMINT

this is the thinking of the cucked american lolbertarian


Idealist tripe


Bottom image should just be big bill haywood


Sure why not. Let’s do it now.


Boss makes a dollar
I make a dime
That's why I poop
On company time


can i get in on this project?

we can do chapter by chapter, use our own words to translate what's been written essentially. dumb it down into a few important sentences.


in other words. people with empathy and serve humanity vs. psychopaths serving themselves



Not everyone, but many people know it and they want to become the boss. That is the rpomise of capitalism.


Oh no, I'm only going to be paid 80-90% the value of my labor instead of 10-30% that I get now. Welp, guess we'll just stick with capitalism.


Who told you you would get paid 80 or 90% lmao


Get a job loser


Sorry I meant
Get a real job loser


They're always desperate for workers in the construction, mining and shipping industry son

Just walk up to the manager shake their hand and ask for a job. If your business isn't making money It's not a business it's a hobby and hobbies are irrelevant to the topic


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Yes your business isn't a real job son


People objectively had better pay, better benefits, lower rents, and better health care under the soviet system than they do under the post-soviet system. Seethe and cope.


Speak for yourself. I've had several manual labor jobs. Kys.

office workers are still comrades anyway, stop trying to divide wage workers over fake bullshit


what are some famous office worker strikes in history?

The last one I remember was trans Netflix workers organizing in favor of the company hiring more trans ppl or some shit like that.




yes you're generally correct that office workers strike less often and their strikes aren't as glorious and well remembered but trying to ostracize them from the larger working class is stupid. You want them to show solidarity and engage in more labor action. I say this as someone who's laid carpet, laid tile, and loaded/unload trucks for a living. Office work actually is bad for people's health. It makes them too sedentary, it fucks up their backs, it causes nerve problems in the extremities. I do not envy the immobile office workers and think they deserve better treatment just like blue collar workers do. As long as they're workers, and not owners.

Also, since offices are the bureaucratic hubs of processing information and managing logistics for porky, shutting down that entire nexus can have far reaching effects and gives us a lot of leverage in the larger working class struggle.


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Marx didn't account for people with attention spans fried by internet use. He should have just made all his main points in easy to digest memes.


Ok lad I've been a bit harsh going ham on the get a job boomer maymay

What I'm getting at is that your case is irrelevant to the argument in OP

You're not a business in the sense of the analysis you're a loser in it. If you don't profit your business can't continue indefinitely and OP doesn't apply because by the logic of capital your endeavour doesn't exist



all philosophy is like this because they have to preempt millions of retards trying to do cheap gotchas and um actually



Ignore him, he’s trolling


This is obvious to you, but libs will bend over backwards to deny it.
I literally just had a discussion with lib friends to the point of absurdity. Some were less ideologized and saw it as obviously true. Others had to resort to out-of-their-ass theories of where surplus value came from, borderline spiritual shit.


piss in their mouths


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and they would be wrong,
that's a perspective issue


Wait a second, is this something people will even deny? I thought this was just basic common sense even to libs.


you're just retarded


People think profit comes from the owner being paid more than he paid to make it and all his employees just happen to be paid some amount.


Yeah, and where is Marx now?


51.5662°N 0.1439°W, apparently.



why are you trying to trick people in the first place. If they are too scared to admit the ideas are correct because they mean Marx was right, call them uyghur cucks and move on


this is how i like to imagine it

abstract human value is essentially the collective sum of all human creative potential.

the problem at the moment is that most capitalists or rich people have no concerns about the potential itself (such as truth seeking, scientific innovation, bringing humans to mars, whatever) they just want to compete with each other through wealth hoarding. so a lot of wealth is kind of wasted into frivolous things like creating suppy and demand, showing off however many cars/houses, being on forbes top 100. and so on and so forth.

instead of distributing resources for better things, it gets funneled into the hands of the few who are instead sitting on top of huge amounts of wealth and due to greed/infinite desire only care about gaining more material wealth. human potential is essentially collected and directed towards a game of selling commodity and wealth hoarding.

we are also essentially rewarding bosses when they come up with a creative idea with abnormal amounts of wealth which is extremely unequal to how valuable that idea is.

like any guy who is on his own island can think up of a hotdog shop since he has all the conditions which make that easy to conjure but not every guy can come up with idk marxist theory?

so the problem is really with the price tag we put on specific human potential/creativity/ideas. the fact that jeff bezos got a billion bucks for thinking up of an online supermarket & us rewarding him with the "risk" of putting that idea to action, whereas a budding scientist who could have the solution to solve world issues is somewhere in the world begging for grants or working at a supermarket stocking bananas what is wrong with this whole system.


inside your walls


>muh trans
and once again the people who think worker = overalls and hardhat prove to be reactionary turds with nothing of value to say


>worker = overalls and hardhat
wasn't his point at all

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