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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1659757947299.png (22.91 KB, 990x1184, 1643905260747.png)

 No.1107563[Last 50 Posts]

What are some alternatives to Marxism Leninism?
Nothing else seems to have ever worked
What are some modern critiques of Marxism Leninism that aren't based on memes like 'bureaucracy' or authoritarianism?

 No.1107567

stalin destroying or starting the decline of democratic centralism

 No.1107568

There is no alternative

 No.1107569

See flair

 No.1107570

this wojak is so unsettling
consider barbarism, OP

 No.1107572

File: 1659758335152.png (98 KB, 200x447, 359.png)

>>1107569
Anarcho-bidenism

 No.1107575

>>1107563
>What are some alternatives to Marxism Leninism?
History will make that known
> Nothing else seems to have ever worked
Marxism-Leninism itself didn’t work, or have you forgotten which faction won the Cold War, and which set of nations largely controlled the world in the post WWII era

Do MLs just pretend like 1991 didn’t actually happen?
> What are some modern critiques of Marxism Leninism that aren't based on memes like 'bureaucracy' or authoritarianism?
<What are some modern critiques of ML or the USSR that magically refuse to include the reasons why the USSR no longer exists?

What’s the point of making a thread full of questions you don’t want answers to?

 No.1107576

>>1107575
this a non-answer uyghur

 No.1107577

>>1107575
Do you actually believe the ussr no longer exists because of bureaucracy and authoritarianism?

 No.1107581

>>1107576
What about it is a non-answer?
How are you supposed to know what will work in the future until that future arrives? I’m not a prophet
Marxism-Leninism obviously failed because the communists lost the struggle of the 20th Century, that’s just a fact regardless of if you want to face reality or not
Part of why the communists failed is because every Marxist-Leninist state with the exception of Cuba and North Korea either reverted to capitalism, or collapsed and then reverted to capitalism; the only powerful self-professed ML state in the world doesn’t help the worker’s movement or communist struggle in any country so them being self-described ML is effectively irrelevant and even most supporters of the country (China) don’t actually claim that the new Cold War is about capitalism vs socialism but just if America continues ruling the planet
>>1107577
The USSR was destroyed by its bureaucracy and the working class in that state (the non-bureaucrat workers) had no power to prevent it, so yes

 No.1107585

>>1107581
>the only powerful self-professed ML state in the world doesn’t help the worker’s movement or communist struggle in any country so them being self-described ML is effectively irrelevant
It acts as a shield protecting the remaining socialist states including the Trotskyist Venezuelan socialism
And it's telos is communism **of course being orthodox Marxist Leninist they are building it in one country but inviting the world in as a shared future for humanity
This isn't nothing
They're also the only country with practical plans to reduce their carbon emissions to 0
The stakes are enormous here
What would you do if you were a strategic planner for them

 No.1107587

>>1107585
> It acts as a shield protecting the remaining socialist states including the Trotskyist Venezuelan socialism
In what tangible, actual way does it do this? By trading with them? China trades with everyone. Rhetorical support you mean? What did China do for Venezuela when America tried overthrowing the government?
> And it's telos is communism **of course being orthodox Marxist Leninist they are building it in one country but inviting the world in as a shared future for humanity
This is just dengist drivel, the translation would be
<It’s pursuing it’s own national interests, while also having international relations, like every country on Earth
> This isn't nothing
It isn’t nothing if your standards are nearly nothing
So far all you’ve stated is that China trades with Venezuela, and it interacts with other countries while pursuing its own interests, like virtually every country
> What would you do if you were a strategic planner for them
Does it matter? No matter what dengists argue, it always circles back to
>Explain why China should pursue the goals of the international proletariat over its own national interests
Why is this something I even need to explain if their goals are identical and China isn’t irrelevant in this regard?

 No.1107601

>>1107587
><It’s pursuing it’s own national interests, while also having international relations, like every country on Earth
Yes It's true the goal is full communism which is in their national interest They're not retards they've read their Marx and Engels back and forth at this point they're a bunch of engineers and philosophers in their highest chamber, they know full space communism is possible and can practically be built

The trade is enough, Zelensky just pleaded in the South China Morning Post for Xi to sanction Russia for example and venezuela still stands despite the UK and USA seizing its entire gold reserves there will be technology transfer hopefullly Venezuela will get it's hydropower working again despite the sanctions the USA has placed on it

Ok you've got that much within the stranglehold of global capital you're responsible for the well being and happiness of billions what is you're next move?

 No.1107605

OP, look for critiques of revisionism, and histories of how capitalist roaders took control in China. These are the critiques of ML - because ML couldnt prevent this. But as it stands both Marx and Lenin stand tall still, since socialist revolutions got fucked exactly where they didnt follow through with the previous understandings of what's necessary.

That's not to say that theory comes before practice, but tbh anyone talking about revisionism and succumbing to capitalism as some kind of socialism-in-practice and a situational win is delusional.

I suggest you read more Lenin. Go on marxists.org and find the Lenin archives, and read what seems relevant to your curiosity.

 No.1107609

>>1107605
>succumbing to capitalism as some kind of socialism-in-practice and a situational win is delusional.
If you believe that then the way to describe it is taking one for the team

China falls no more even socialism with Chinese characteristics what happens to the DPRK; Cuba?

 No.1107615

>>1107601
Can I ask why, considering everything you’ve said so far, that you’ve also convinced yourself that their interest is communism?
Basically what you’ve stated is
>Okay so they don’t actually support communists really anywhere, they just compete with the West mostly…but they’re becoming fabulously rich and powerful, doesn’t that matter to you?
No, it doesn’t
The working class is being eradicated right now
The Earth is being destroyed right now
The world is moving towards a brutal barbarous war for resources, right now

The proletariat doesn’t need some mythical savior to bring us (really just Chinese proles if dengists actually aren’t full of shit) socialism in 30 fucking years, we needed socialism 50 years ago and need revolution tomorrow, we don’t have time to waste and I don’t care about China’s individual prestige, if they won’t help us they mean nothing to me; if they can’t help us (as most dengists adamantly believe) then they shouldn’t mean shit to me because their politics are therefore irrelevant

I don’t need a god or savior, I don’t need some distant mythical land to put my faith in, I need liberation and life; if China won’t fight with us then China is nothing to me regardless of its excuses

> Ok you've got that much within the stranglehold of global capital you're responsible for the well being and happiness of billions what is you're next move?

It depends on if I’m a communist trying to assist in the international movement to liberate the working class or a run-of-the mill politician looking for the national interests of my nation-state

What you call yourself doesn’t matter, what you actually are is what counts

 No.1107620

>>1107615
I expect them to not be stupid given their qualifications

Basically I expect the beureocratic scholarly caste to continue developing China

Marxism gives them tools to deal with around 250 year cyclical economic and social collapse that has plagued their civilization for over 2000 years

It forces certain other insights because these are logically forced conclusions

Such as life would be better with no work and lots of stuff and we can build it together

Don't you want to build it?

Communism is the riddle of history solved and knows itself to be the answer

 No.1107623

>>1107615
>It depends on if I’m a communist trying to assist in the international movement to liberate the working class or a run-of-the mill politician looking for the national interests of my nation-state
That avoided the question

 No.1107624

>>1107620
Impressive
Dengists and tankoids say drivel like this and still expect me to recognize them as “Marxists”

 No.1107626

>>1107624
Why don't you want to build It
Ever had a real job?

 No.1107627

>>1107623
It answered it directly
Were I a communist I would aid the international proletariat in this period of accelerating class warfare
Were I not I would do what China does and uphold my national interests whether it means trading with Cuba or Saudi Arabia

 No.1107629

>>1107626
Build ehat?
Nothing you’ve said is of substance
Nothing you’ve said is even related to Marxism, you were just ranting abiut bureaucracy in Ancient China and idealist bullshit like civilizational cycles

Is this the sort of person that finds Caleb Maupin inspiring?

 No.1107633

>>1107627
That's politician speak
Be more concrete
Remember if you're shipping out guns to militants and your food supply gets interdicted you can't ship out as many guns for some reason

 No.1107634

>>1107629
The 250 year cycle is an empirical fact dude

 No.1107638

>>1107633
It’s politician speak to do what the early USSR actually did do? Do dengoids have actual standards, beliefs, anything? Do you have any concrete reasons why someone interested in international revolution should support China beyond idealist nonsense and outright reaction such as
>Trust the plan Socialism by 2050
Or
>Mars by 2100
Or
>China is literally a superior civilization above all other peoples, trust and follow for this reason

People who don’t help me are nothing to me in this regard, end of story, my class is being eradicated, anyone that doesn’t help to stop this is worth less than nothing, dengoids in demanding subservience to a county that is pretty much openly indifferent to the global prospect of communism are also worthless

 No.1107640

>>1107634
So is human nature to idealists
So is Great Man History
So is racial struggle
I don’t give a fuck about whatever idealist dogshit dengoids choose to conjure to justify their utter abandonment of cokmunist struggle and demand that communists around the world just adhere to some bizarre nationalism for China and accept our death in our own countries

 No.1107646

>>1107640
Please do a search on words you don't understand next time instead of wasting everybodies time with angry posturing

I'm a prole lad there are people who depend on me working as dependents

This is my free weekend

Ok let's lay it out what concrete steps can China do to help your community towards revolution immediately

Some of them at least one or two CPC rank and file may Be even salaried read here I suspect

Tell them what you want them to do to help you

 No.1107658

>>1107575
Marxism-Leninism cannot fail, it can only be failed.

 No.1107660


 No.1107661

>>1107660
You just said they're real phenomena retard

 No.1107663

>>1107646
NTA but can the CPC "accidentaly " let a long March rocket fall on some Evangelist church?

 No.1107714

File: 1659770544073.jpeg (33.5 KB, 474x299, marx engels 2.jpeg)

>>1107572
in this letter to Engels, I drop a JN-bomb. Biiiig one. Hard 'R'. I did this to show my friend Engels that Ferdinand Lassalle doesn't impress me….

 No.1107745

>>1107572

Reminder: state intelligence agencies often collect incriminating info on people, often related to CP and pedophilia, and then blackmail them into promoting their narrative.

Remember that when fatass Agent Kochinski seemlessly goes from advocating lowering the age of consent to promoting a war with whoever the US is gunning for this week

 No.1107762

File: 1659776673956.jpg (233.91 KB, 1078x1524, media_FZZz_IlacAI7-4A.jpg)


 No.1107770

File: 1659777224432.png (126.6 KB, 820x697, retard.png)

>>1107762
>One Taiwan

 No.1107771

>>1107563
"Marxism leninism" is an extrmely vague term. When used as descriptive theory, they work, period. When used as perscriptive, they offer you little guidance.

 No.1107790

>Nothing else seems to have ever worked
looks like you haven´t paid much attention at history classes, anon

 No.1107796

>>1107790
He has good intuition

 No.1107799

>>1107790
>le wacky snarky comment
Did redditors just wake up

 No.1107810

>>1107567
Technically Lenin started that with the ban on factions.

 No.1107823

>Nothing else seems to have ever worked
ok but you're literally wrong, even limiting yourself to non-ML* socialist movements

 No.1107826

File: 1659783076617.png (3.03 MB, 933x1166, apodrip.png)

>>1107563
Usually I'd say "democratic confederalism/ some form of communalism", but the problem is OP, is that you've yet to define what specific brand of Marxism Leninism. Are we talking Maoism, Hoxhaism, Titoism or the Pan Africanism advocated by Sankara and Kwame Nkrumah etc. because each of these have different theoretical deviations and for the longest time, Marxist Leninist states stood in opposition/ condemned other Marxist Leninist states- from Thomas Sankara criticizing the USSR, and Maoist Guerillas criticizing China.

Secondly, Marxism Leninism, although having unique flaws isn't free from other compromises that even Libertarian Communist/ Socialist experiments had to make- i.e still engaging with the capitalist world and more or less having an element of commodity production- the reasons for this being that they have to make them in order to survive within global capitalism- these include but are not limited to the AANES and Zapatista controlled Chiappas. I'd personally argue that on the basis of them being states and seeking to maintain it, the state soon became its own class that acted against the working class interests, despite it being initially a positive force. An example of this is the USSR which, despite its population wanting to maintain itself as a socialist republic, had its own vanguard dissolve itself. The other ML states, as some MLs would argue, have fallen to revisionism and have more or less abandoned international solidarity for survival- partially due to internal factors of opportunists and external factors which were beyond their control. We can shake our fists at China backing the Mujahadeen and more or less backstabbing the USSR post Mao, but it's important to understand its successes as well as its failings.

Thirdly, Marxism Leninism is an ever evolving ideology- constantly changing, shifting and developing as history goes on. The problem is, is that so called "MLs" think we're still in the 20th century and prefer reading Lenin, a tiny few quotes from Marx, and a few obscure itallian marxists and call it a day- that is if their brains don't get rotted by stalinoids, gonzaloids or vulgar materialists/ campists. However, despite what I've said, theory isn't entirely the problem- it's dogma.
personally one of the reasons I'm more or less dem-con/communalist is based moreso on Australia's material conditions and its indigenous/ immigrant population, alongside its unique eco-system, but I sure as fuck ain't gonna go and scream "red-fash" at someplace like Vietnam, because even though I'm not in favour of vanguardism, I'm not going to call to sabotage vietnam etc. Also Dem-Con actually seems to respect the plurality of human existance, and trying to enforce a form of national uniformity via a state is fucking whack

At the end of the day OP, if you're trying to pout about alternatives to "ML" you have a choice- you can either trade in one group of dogmatists for another, or realise the flaws and merits of each socialist tendency and embrace them in their plurality.

 No.1107827


 No.1107833

>>1107826
My current take, and what I feel is the only really rational take, is that the communist movement of this century will be organized around an ideology or theory that didn’t actually exist in the 20th Century

 No.1107847

>>1107833
I wonder possibly something related to the environment? people who are willing to sit in the road and glue themselves to save the planet, are active in a way I don't see MLs or trots who march with pictures of Stalin and handing out newspapers nobody reads.

 No.1107850

File: 1659785277304.png (227.42 KB, 417x521, ClipboardImage.png)

>What are some alternatives to Marxism Leninism?
Reading Marx and Lenin

 No.1107853

>>1107566
fpwp

 No.1107857

File: 1659785540066.png (722.77 KB, 717x900, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1107833
true but it will likely present itself as the successor of one of the 20th century radical experiments

 No.1107858

>>1107847
Well it’ll definitely be related to ecology since that’s the worst crisis of the 21st Century (thinking otherwise, as many LARPers do, is tremendous cope, ecological collapse will literally make every problem of capitalism far worse while accelerating the start of brutal wars, it could even make slavery a once again widespread phenomenon and trigger genocides the likes of which we haven’t witnessed); however I think it will be fully and truly communist as well, that is toed intrinsically to the proletarian struggle just as the degradation of the Earth’s ecosystems is intrinsically tied to capitalism. Alongside collapsing ecology we also have a collapsing global economy, insane fall in living standards for proletarians, a terrifying fascist lurch in the West, and a clear movement towards armed confrontation between the Atlanticist bloc and emergent Eastern bloc, so it’ll be a lot more than just ecology, but ecology will be a fundamental part

Honestly I think the channel Prolekult, despite being Youtube filmmakers, are a good example of the developing ideology and perspective of 21st Century Marxism (and actual Marxism, not the vulgar campism of the various strains of red-cynics around the world/web)

 No.1107860

>>1107857
Always nice to see another person who actually understands the meaning of “first as tragedy, then as farce” 😌

 No.1107862

>>1107857
me in the top left

 No.1107868


 No.1107869

>>1107868
See, films like this are honestly excellent, instead of reciting history endlessly they primarily focus on the time that matters most right now, which is the present crisis we’re faced with

 No.1107870

>>1107857
The wojaks of all dead generations weighs like a JPEG compression nightmare on the posts of the living.

 No.1107872


 No.1107874

>>1107872
>Le Industrial Capitalism = Socialism Man
Indifferent

 No.1107878

>>1107872
>>1107874
Oh wait, that isn’t Michael “the Meme” Hudson, just a similar looking white man
Either way you should be happy to hear Prolekult are basically dengoids even though China won’t save you, me, or anyone else

 No.1107884

>>1107878
May be that's a hint to you about the new Xism

 No.1107886

>>1107566
isnt he a neonazi

 No.1107887

>>1107874
Retards think socialism is about growing le hecking productive forces but without the bourgeoisie, because that's what the soviets and chinese did nvm that these were backward countries at the time

 No.1107890

File: 1659787806352.png (93.05 KB, 596x545, udc1rifh25f91.png)

>>1107850
And Stalin

 No.1107891

>>1107884
It’s a hint that people need hope in an utterly hopeless world, even if their hope is in a country that explicitly only cares about its own citizens and nobody else and will gladly leave the entire rest of the working class to die
Me, I don’t give a fuck what the CPC does for the Chinese if the future they’re happy with is that all of humanity outside of China is dead or in Hell; if they won’t fight with me then they’re nothing to me, communism isn’t a religion or nationalist ideal or anything else to me, I have no shame in saying that
If all that matters to China is its own citizens then China doesn’t matter to me at all and I think that’s 100% fair; if you say they shouldn’t have to help proles anywhere (as most dengoids say outright) then I don’t see why proles anywhere should give fealty for absolutely no gain other than, what, catharsis?

 No.1107893

>>1107891
A ratchet mechanism for better working conditions lad

Same as when things were bearable when the Soviet Union was still around

 No.1107895

>>1107893
Things aren’t bearable at all right now and getting exponentially worse every single year even though China is the second most powerful country on Earth, the rising labor movement is fueled by none other than the proletariat of each country with pretty much no input from the CPC, the only people coming to save us are quite clearly ourselves; what now dengoid?
Like I said, catharsis is worthless to me, you can’t eat catharsis; I don’t care if the entire world is fucked but at least the Chinese get a final good two or three decades before joining the rest of us in deah

 No.1107896

>>1107893
What better working conditions lmao

 No.1107898

>>1107896
Once the Chinese working conditions definitively surpass yours then you'll start to see it just like how things were when the Soviet Union still stood

 No.1107902

>>1107895
No you don't get it, you have to support my geopolitical sports team, that's the only thing that really matters

 No.1107903

>>1107898
Socialism isn't meant to be a cargo cult you idiot. Stop posting about China and go organize.

 No.1107904

>>1107898
So your argument is purely hypothetical lol
When will that be bruh, things don't look much different from my eastern yuro shithole besides the fact they have more and richer porkies

 No.1107905

>>1107898
Again, why the fuck does this matter to anyone outside of China?
That’s the problem with dengoids, dengoidism is basically a religion
They admit China will
>Never do anything for you
>Never help any revolution anywhere
>Doesn’t care about anyone outside of China unless it’s strategically sound, i.e. be closer to the Saudis than to Cuba even if you trade with both and interact with both
Yet!
<You should pledge fealty to them because they have a red flag
<You should be happy that the Chinese are now better off even if it makes no difference in the life of anyone but the Chinese
<You shouldn’t expect literally anything from them ever but still support them anyway because you just should
<While the rest of the world is fucked they might be okay and you should be happy about that because they’re better than you
<If humanity gets reduced to 1 billion in China and everyone else is gone and only China gets socialism/communism you should be happy because well they’re just a superior civilization see and deserved it more

I don’t understand this mindset, I want socialism for me, not “socialism” somewhere in the world I could watch from the outside while the world collapses everywhere else

And you think the Chinese will be taking in masses of refugees during the collapses of this century? Fat fucking chance.

 No.1107906

>>1107898
>>1107896
I'm serious I saw the difference before and after the Soviet Union was destroyed and the era of blackest reaction set in

It wasn't Soviet support that helped it was it's sheer existence

Xi Jingping has a literal PhD in Marxism along with being a chemical engineer did you read his speech in the China general?

 No.1107908

>>1107905
Somewhere someone is soyraging over this post and that makes me happy

 No.1107911

>>1107906
>I SAW THE DIFFERENCE FROM WHEN THE SOVIET UNION FELL AND BLACKEST REACTION SET IN!
And you realize China existed during that entire time?
How tf do dengoids square the circle that China was alive and well when the world apparently changed forever?
Can’t you see you’re basically conceding that they actually are nothing to the international worker movement and all you’re offering is the nothingness that is catharsis?

FFS the blackest reaction began before the USSR fell anyway, the world went to shit by the 70s

 No.1107914

>>1107911
Dear God are you a burger do you know how much the Chinese have had to build simply in the public sector to get this far

 No.1107918

>>1107914
>NOOOOO YOU AREN'T CHINESE!!!
Average Dengoid post

 No.1107919

>>1107918
I'm just asking because your level of wilful ignorance is on par with theirs

 No.1107920

>>1107906
China is not the USSR and literally cooperated with the CIA to fund the Mujahideen against the Soviets, they're part of "the darkest reaction". China's working conditions are barely better than shitholes like USA and the dengoid obsession with them is just desperate westoid cope after 1991, only in typical retard westoid fashion they jump to kiss the feet of the people who dug the USSR's grave right next to the US and the imperialist bloc

 No.1107922

>BLAH BLAH BLAH

 No.1107924

>>1107919
Jesus Christ you can't even tell the difference between posters with a flag helping you

 No.1107925

>>1107920
>China's working conditions are barely better than shitholes like USA
They've already surpassed my local working conditions and I can see the difference over the last few years as they surpassed us

 No.1107926

File: 1659789809160.png (35.45 KB, 240x240, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1107911
>the world went to shit by the 70s
Part of me wonders if 1968 was a sign of things to come or the last, futile war cry of humanity before it was finally snuffed out

 No.1107927

>>1107925
>us
burgershart detected, post completely disregarded

 No.1107936

>>1107927
Chinese working conditions have also surpassed burger conditions
Wonderful I didn't know that

Burger comrades your working conditions should start easing not without struggle as the burger regime is forced to compete with China on how they treat working people

My back already thanks China for their development

 No.1107937

>>1107927
When you realize the average dengoid is an American teen who discovered politics trough r/genzedong it all makes sense

 No.1107939

>>1107936
*my aching back

 No.1107945

File: 1659790617214.png (635.08 KB, 541x600, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1107926
>I warned you bro I told you dawg

 No.1107953

>>1107914
Why do I care?
That’s the thing Dengoids have literally never explained to me, why should I care if life is getting better for the Chinese if it’s getting worse for everyone else and the Chinese won’t actually help me or anyone else in any capacity (unless it’s a trade relation 🤡)

Seriously, why should this shit matter to me? I want socialism for the world and for my country, not to sit here soyfacing at how great it is to be Chinese while the lives of most of the world are absolute shit

 No.1108024

>>1107833
It's going to be a synthesis of theory that existed in the 20th century and the lessons taken away from those experiments, as well as more recent historical developments.

>>1107847
Any socialism without environmentalism as a major pillar is going to be stillborn tbh.

 No.1108030

File: 1659794403005.png (1.91 MB, 1200x869, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1108024
>Any socialism without environmentalism as a major pillar is going to be stillborn tbh.
eco-stalinism time

 No.1108031

>>1108024
Yea that’s basically what I was getting at, like, I don’t think 21st Century communist ideology will discard Marxism or Leninism, I just think it will be something new and not 20th Century ML
The problem with trying to chart history in motion is that you don’t yet know how it will play out; for instance, we know there’s a worker’s movement building all around the world and a rising trend in mass struggle, but it’s impossible to know how it will turn out, which political parties will arise, and any new theories that may appear to guide people

 No.1108063

The only alternative to ML is barbarism

 No.1108081

File: 1659796069746.jpg (28.4 KB, 400x400, lysneedko.jpg)

>>1108030
The 1930s famine wouldn't have happened if they composted the kulaks.

 No.1108137

>>1107566

 No.1108140

File: 1659799381524.jpg (74.96 KB, 377x315, NKVD.jpg)

>>1107566

 No.1108150

>>1107575
A fifth of the world lives under a M-L government currently, hardly a failure. 1991 was a setback.

 No.1108260

>>1107563
marxism-leninism didn't "work"

 No.1108261

>>1108150
China isn’t 1/5 of the world

 No.1108269

>>1108150
What's a M-L government

 No.1108276

>>1108150
Not a gotcha

 No.1108360

>>1107658
literally idealism

 No.1108365

>>1108260
Depends on how you define "work", its the only leftist ideology that actually ever got put into practice at a large scale.
But when it comes to freeing the proletariat from labour exploitation it works about as well as a two legged donkey.

 No.1108374

Follow Lenin and you get a revolution, it's that simple. It has worked over and over again

 No.1108375

>>1108260
Go back

 No.1108377

File: 1659814119219.png (90.48 KB, 600x1050, soviet_preference.png)

>>1107563
capitalist state with capitalist class -> vanguard party overthrows it -> vanguard party establishes self as new capitalist class

even lenin understood this which is why he didnt want to be mummified and put on display after death and a bunch of statues of him put up. hero worship, cult of personality, etc. leading to class distinction between apparatchiks and regular people. this distinction also gave anti communists a lot of propaganda, pretty much every piece of anti soviet propaganda etc. wasn't "it was worse than russia under capitalism"(as this is obviously untrue), but more about the preservation of class differences.

As Marx said, "At the moment, while the democratic petty bourgeois are everywhere oppressed, they preach to the proletariat general unity and reconciliation; they extend the hand of friendship, and seek to found a great opposition party which will embrace all shades of democratic opinion; that is, they seek to ensnare the workers in a party organization in which general social-democratic phrases prevail while their particular interests are kept hidden behind, and in which, for the sake of preserving the peace, the specific demands of the proletariat may not be presented. Such a unity would be to their advantage alone and to the complete disadvantage of the proletariat. The proletariat would lose all its hard-won independent position and be reduced once more to a mere appendage of official bourgeois democracy. This unity must therefore be resisted in the most decisive manner. Instead of lowering themselves to the level of an applauding chorus, the workers, and above all the League, must work for the creation of an independent organization of the workers’ party, both secret and open, and alongside the official democrats, and the League must aim to make every one of its communes a center and nucleus of workers’ associations in which the position and interests of the proletariat can be discussed free from bourgeois influence."

and: "To be able forcefully and threateningly to oppose this party, whose betrayal of the workers will begin with the very first hour of victory, the workers must be armed and organized. The whole proletariat must be armed at once with muskets, rifles, cannon and ammunition, and the revival of the old-style citizens’ militia, directed against the workers, must be opposed. Where the formation of this militia cannot be prevented, the workers must try to organize themselves independently as a proletarian guard, with elected leaders and with their own elected general staff; they must try to place themselves not under the orders of the state authority but of the revolutionary local councils set up by the workers. Where the workers are employed by the state, they must arm and organize themselves into special corps with elected leaders, or as a part of the proletarian guard. Under no pretext should arms and ammunition be surrendered; any attempt to disarm the workers must be frustrated, by force if necessary. The destruction of the bourgeois democrats’ influence over the workers, and the enforcement of conditions which will compromise the rule of bourgeois democracy, which is for the moment inevitable, and make it as difficult as possible – these are the main points which the proletariat and therefore the League must keep in mind during and after the approaching uprising."

read the entire thing if you can https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/communist-league/1850-ad1.htm

 No.1108379

>>1107568
This. If you are not ML you're not a leftist.

 No.1108401

>>1108379 (You)

 No.1108402

>>1108374
Ok, I'm in Moscow, Red square. What now?

 No.1108405

>>1108374
>It has worked over and over again

 No.1108431

>>1108402
Begin the resurrection.

 No.1108452

File: 1659817438178.png (22.76 KB, 561x283, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1108261
debunked

 No.1108467

>>1108452
>Belarus

 No.1108683

>>1107906
>Xi Jingping has a literal PhD in Marxism
His PhD was a formality and proven to be plagiarized. If you read it you'll see there are few or possibly no references to Marxist texts and it spends the whole time praising "the breakup of the rural communes". There was a thread a year or so ago that BTFOed this point.

 No.1108772

>>1108377
this whole post is disingenuous
Your quote about the workers needing to take up arms against the party refers to the petite-bourgeois democratic party, as Marx makes clear many times, it does not refer to a communist party

On the more important point:
>capitalist state with capitalist class -> vanguard party overthrows it -> vanguard party establishes self as new capitalist class
This has never happened. In any case i can think of, the there is neither a 1:1 overlap between the one party and the military, or between the party and the bourgeoisie. The people carry out the revolution. No party carries out revolution in the people's names. And any in all cases of capitalist restoration, the capitalists were never fully rooted out in the first place! They were generally the same capitalists as before.

 No.1108773

>>1108467
greater china

 No.1108812


 No.1108911

>>1108683
Plz repost so I can demolish the argument since I must have missed this thread

 No.1109039

>>1108911
Based tanko

 No.1109069


 No.1109289

>>1107905
this really put things in perspective for me thanks

 No.1109291

>>1109289
that means you're gay

 No.1109292

>>1109291
you suck chink dick

 No.1109293

>>1108379
There are ML and assorted others. It's a good thing these borders are getting clear. I wouldn't go so far as to say they aren't left, being of the left is cheap after all, it just requires you to have some opinions that aren't completely retarded. What they are is totally useless to anyone.

 No.1109305

ITT: People who think Marxism-Leninism had anything to do with Marx or Lenin or the October Revolution lmao

 No.1109317

>>1109305
Yeah they missed the part where Stalin and cie made it all up in the 20s. That's what not reading and idealism do to a mf

 No.1109323

>>1109305
>>1109317
This is one of the most brainlet wannabe smart guy talking points that always gets brought up. It's like leftcoms nitpicking over socialism no longer being synonymous with communism in 99% of communication.

 No.1109340

>>1109317

in what specific ways did stalin misrepresent or distort marx and lenin?

 No.1109344

>>1109340
nta but here's an example

 No.1109347

>>1109344
yeah nah im not gonna trust a guy who himself is a distorter and revisionist

 No.1109460

>>1109347
please point out said revisionism

 No.1109845

>>1109460

d i a l e c t i c s

 No.1109878

>>1107762
Still in awe that that's real

 No.1109883

File: 1659901380736.jpg (611.45 KB, 3000x1680, darkbrandon.jpg)


 No.1109969

>>1107911
thats not true we got stevie wonder in the 70s :(

 No.1114489

>>1114483
why post a picture of Bilbo Baggins hated National Socialism

 No.1114766

Why is criticizing the bureaucracy a meme? Lenin himself noticed the problem near the end of his life. Ignoring or sweeping problems under the rug and pretending it doesn't exist, the ML classic.

 No.1114786

>>1107926
>>1107911
Wrong. The world went to shit around 1500.
That was when Europe began it's colonialism craze. That's when Protestantism was born.
It's when white man became flattered with the ideas of liberalism.

 No.1114921

>>1108772
This has never happened. In any case i can think of, the there is neither a 1:1 overlap between the one party and the military, or between the party and the bourgeoisie. The people carry out the revolution. No party carries out revolution in the people's names. And any in all cases of capitalist restoration, the capitalists were never fully rooted out in the first place! They were generally the same capitalists as before.

Cope harder. It's been the case in every single 'socialist' country.

Ultimately, what matters isn't so much which class 'owns' of the means of production, but rather which class controls the MoP and the profit it generates

 No.1114924

>>1114766
Bureaucracy isn't an issue, every society has bureaucracy, our capitalist society has an even bigger and more convoluted bureaucracy than the ussr ever had

 No.1114929

>>1114924
>Bureaucracy isn't an issue, every society has bureaucracy,
stalinoid moment

 No.1114946

>>1114924
The criticism isn’t usually oh it had bureaucracy. It’s usually the excessive way it developed and the ML failure to deal with the issue. Also capitalism has this bad thing so communism can too??? Isn’t the point to be better?

“Our state apparatus is so deplorable, not to say wretched, that we must first think very carefully how to combat its defects, bearing in mind that these defects are rooted in the past, which, although it has been overthrown, has not yet been overcome, not yet reached the stage of a culture that has receded into the past.” -Lenin

 No.1115018

>>1107563
unironically national socialism with marxian economic influence/model

 No.1115036

>>1114946
>It’s usually the excessive way it developed and the ML failure to deal with the issue.
Usually things like the Stalinist repressions or Cultural Revolutions that did deal with the issue quite effectively get condemned harshly by those who imagine themselves in the position of the bureaucrats despite their condemnation of bureaucracy

Funny that


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