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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1659770213608.jpg (37.58 KB, 540x960, source that isnt booj.jpg)

 No.1107712

consider this a combination of self-crit and reflection

when I was a budding leftist, I was annoyed by what I perceived as a "foolish" tendency among other leftists to apologize for and defend dead people. Particularly people like Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Castro, so on. I was educated enough to know that the "evil totalitarian dictator who stole all the food" exaggerations were not true in any of these cases, but I also assumed that the programming was too far gone in most of the public, and that de-programming them was a waste of time and "makes us look like apologists."

I figured the emphasis should always be on agitating and organizing. Discussions of theory should be limited to theory itself and not historical figures who wrote or practiced the theory. I thought "we" were "shooting ourselves in the foot by always rushing to the defense of these people." I thought "There's a reason we're seen as bizarre extremists."

I now realize that's foolish, and I'd like to convince anyone else who still thinks this way that it's foolish as well.

Consider:

1: Even if we denounce, or distance ourselves from, or downplay every historical figure associated with Socialism, and only focus on agitating and organizing, our enemies will still identify us with these figures by sheer virtue of our class consciousness. We can even avoid using "controversial" words like "communism" and "socialism" and focus entirely on agitating for specific improvements to our material conditions, such as unionization, but our enemies will still slander us as communist and socialist by the virtue of our goals objectively being the same goals shared by communists and socialists all over the world. Why throw our allies under the bus when we can wear our ideas as a badge of honor? Why try to backpedal out of these accusations in order to seem more "Normal" when it is important that we say "yes, these ideas are indeed communist and socialist ideas."

2. by refusing to discuss these "dead men" because they're "irrelevant to the current struggle" we allow the reactionaries to continually dominate the historical record about these men, to spread lies and exaggerations and mischaracterizations.

3. the reactionaries will do the same thing to us. It does not matter who or when or where, any time there is a socialist in power, they will be attacked while they are alive, and they will be attacked after they are dead. They will continuously be denounced, lied about, slandered, and so on. If we cannot even protect the names of our ideological forebearers here and now, how can we expect anyone to defend us and what we do after we are gone?

 No.1107974

Ok

 No.1108179

It isn't so much about defending them against lies or clearing their names, rather people will not shut the fuck up about whatever Hoxha or Ho Chi Minh did or didn't do and it has nothing to do with day-to-day activities. Among ourselves, sure, evaluate them critically (and civilly) within the context of their environment as a side project, but groups split over this pointless shit or denounce each other because one party didn't give proper respect to the other party's patron saint. Focusing too much on historical figures is part of a deeper problem where people get stuck agonizing over details outside of their control and which are irrelevant to the task at hand.

It isn't worth engaging with liberals over it anyway. They don't dislike communism because Stalin was mean, they dislike communism because they're anticommunists: they don't hold capitalist leaders to the same standard because one leader's actions aren't going to change their opinions on capitalism. In any case, if you're speaking to someone's material interests they aren't going to care what some person said or did in the 20th century, you're only going to get stuck talking about this with dweebs who won't be persuaded anyway. Or worse, you'll persuade dweebs who consider ideology a personality who will then spend time debunking anti-Stalin lies on backwater imageboards

 No.1108194

mucho texto and also people genuinely do not give a fuck whether Stalin was le good or le bad and it has no relevance either way, your activism seems to be exclusively arguing on reddit
rude sage

 No.1108203

>>1108179
>Or worse, you'll persuade dweebs who consider ideology a personality who will then spend time debunking anti-Stalin lies on backwater imageboards
this lmao

 No.1108263

File: 1659806678135.jpg (180.28 KB, 1170x1246, 16490767908320.jpg)

>>1107712
Read Parenti's Assassination of Julius Caesar for a perspective on a situation when enemies of someone historical have all the voice, and there's literally zero opposition to their writing of history how they like it. Stalin did nothing wrong, 700 thousand purged is just propaganda, 27 million dead in the war is also merely propaganda, actually USSR lost less people than Germany. Similarly, China never lost to hunger 50 million people.

Here, I solved your issue. All you have to do to prove my points is a) look at historical data on repressions and hungers and see that socialists (in bourgeois history) managed to somehow murder/mismanage 100 times more, a way out of line figure b) look at the names of people who write those histories and track from where they take their wages. It's that simple


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