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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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What explains why the proletariat is so bluepilled?

In Marxist theory, false consciousness is a term describing the ways in which material, ideological, and institutional processes are said to mislead members of the proletariat and other class actors within capitalist societies, concealing the exploitation intrinsic to the social relations between classes. Friedrich Engels (1820–1895) used the term "false consciousness" in an 1893 letter to Franz Mehring to address the scenario where a subordinate class willfully embodies the ideology of the ruling class. Engels dubs this consciousness "false" because the class is asserting itself towards goals that do not benefit it.

"Consciousness", in this context, reflects a class's ability to politically identify and assert its will. The subordinate class is conscious: it plays a major role in society and can assert its will due to being sufficiently unified in ideas and action.

Even after all these years what explains why false consciousness is still so dominant among the workers? What is the materialist explanation?


domination of culture through the various media and socialization apparatuses by the ruling class

hard for proles to put pro-worker messages out there when the radio stations, tv stations, streaming services, websites, print media, digital storefronts etc etc are all owned by porky

hard for proles to develop an alternative worldview when they are saturated by this ideology and constantly being fed this shit through the media they willingly consume, through advertisements, and through training at work or in schools that are designed to indoctrinate them


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1) Some people just want to get by and they don't care about engaging that hard in politics
2) Some are contempt with their living standards and want stability and don't care about change, example: the labour aristicracy. This leads to 1)
3) As another person said the culture spreading apparatus is owned by rich people


s o c i a l m e d i a
(and universities; seriously, the standard demand and expectation is to inculcate yourself into the credentialization factory, which yields the perpetual reproduction of hegemony, as the intelligentsia be what it be)


Someone linked this article the other day, the section on 'working class conservatism' may be of interest.


Decades of propaganda and mass murders of anyone that dares complain ring any bells?



Most people have to work full time and more (esp. worldwide) to sustain themselves; At base they very little extra time, energy and money to spend understanding capitalism as a system.

So you can see the danger of economic crisis & high underemployment combined to a well organized, well self funded communist movement.


Those who think it is false consciousness, I do not have numbers and may be I'm wrong, but how will explain that with wide access to the Internet with tones of com propaganda, worker organization did not increase?


play metal gear 2


I'd say that false consciousness predominately grows out of material insulation. Which is to say, you're well-off enough to afford to be stupid. You've got enough distance from actual danger to let your brain craft gods and monsters you obey and fear.

I think a recent scientific agreed with this for the most part. I'll try to find it later. Essentially it said there's very little "coherence" or "principles" in modern politics, rather they're used as a post-hoc justification for why you do what you do. Those who were better educated (and by extent, likely raised in a better material environment) were more not less likely to fall for this post-hoc justification. Essentially, scientists discovered Marx was right when he saw the superstructure as reinforcing but not making up, the material base of society.

But as Marxists we've got to wonder how we can deal with workers not being conscious of their needs, especially in the first world? If I had to throw in my two cents, I think it's fundamentally a division in reality. Which is to say in The West, reality appears to be individually created rather than collectively observed. Through the effort of marketers, the internet, social media, the reality we inhabit is not as a collective body or class, but as individual consumers. This may explain to some extent the bizarre divergence between Conservatives and Liberals, they're fundamentally looking at two completely different realities constructed from their own individual imagination. Conservatives just happen to be more batshit crazy most of the time (a la thinking Trump is anything other than a self-serving coward.)

The only antidote I can come up with to this, is that some kind of common society or community has to be restored. This is particularly difficult in America because individualism is cancer out here: we ride individual transportation, work in individual little cubicles, earn individual wages, live in individual homes, watch individual television shows. We're submerged in our own reality, not the reality of our fellows.


If you look at where the organized workers work, from the news, where strikes happen, it is Deer factory, aviation, docks, etc where workers gather in big numbers.

With capital movement to China, there is not that many domestic big factories left. Somehow it looks imporant that many workers gather at the same place, although I do not have data on small companies.

Immigrants. Immigrants in Poland work as self-employed, although they work at factories, but labor laws somehow do not apply fully to them. They can work 16 h/day no problem from the law point, 12 h/day is common. They travel from Ukraine to Poland, work for something like 4 months and go home.
To understand, the number of immigrants is huge, this can't be ignored.

Gig economy. So the question: 4 hours work day no wage cut.. Is jut not interesting to gig workers.

Some full time workers actually work less than 8 hours/day.


then think harder


some common ideas:
>cultural hegemony
>they dont have the time to think
>they're too comfy
>they don't care about politics (superset of the previous two i guess)

I disagree with all of these as primary factors. Cultural hegemony doesn't explain why people accept it, when many people do in fact reject the news. People are capable of forming their own opinions - these opinions are not handed down to them by petite-bourg and academic socialist intellectuals. People don't need to know the whole history of deceptions by media, politics, and academia - they don't need to know about intelligence agency involvement or any niche information. People will literally stop caring about news or university bullshit or w/e cultural factories "just cause". It's a feeling, its a sensibility that comes first, by understanding 'qui bono' and seeing lies or exaggerations even once, people lose trust.

On the point of people not having time to think, this is really important, but not primary - because before thinking, people act, theyre engaged in a situation where they're living, surviving, whatever. Before conscious class struggle, there's a struggle to respect your own needs, to stand up. But exactly this process of standing up is class struggle, and you will be beaten down. To live undeformed and unassailed, communism is the solution which ends class conflict. The first act is a very basic one which needs no understanding of anything outside your life or work. What we still don't see is masses of people standing up for themselves, and this is prior to people caring about politics.

As far as they're too comfy goes, yeah it's pretty true, but not totally. We do still see techfags e.g. who have it pretty good (not that all do btw, but the ones who do have it good) and who do what they can to engage in class struggle still. For their own dignity and ability to live their best life. In many relatively wealthy laborers this struggle to live their best life becomes deformed, which is precisely why they can become wealthy many times - for a general example, there may be bad working conditions, or long hours, or unhealthy conditions, but this is compensated for by higher wages. You never get back what you give up, but you're consoled with some extra money. Even these upper strata of labor are able to struggle for more.

Here's what I think about all this –
It really is ideology, the material base generates justifications (fuck Gramsci). Workers are not only laborers, but sellers of labor, and purchasers of means of consumption. It's very easy for people to see the truth in their position in the market, and take that as the whole picture. The market is, at least according to Marx, the sphere of capitalist life where there really is freedom, equality, etc. Production is the other half of the equation, and this is where proletarians exist as laborers. This is where class struggle happens and class consciousness is grows. But the reason why bourgeois ideology can even take hold among a class that lives so differently is because in one crucial aspect, they are similar - they are buyers and sellers. Proletarian ideology, or proletarian class consciousness, is proletarian not because it's all that's conceivable for proletarians, but because it's exclusive to proletarians and necessary for full consciousness as a proletarian. If you miss the (objective, not individual) class struggle which exists in the production process, you can never be fully conscious of your position as a proletarian. So this is the first half - just that there is a facet of prole life which is in keeping with bourgeois life and fits under bourgeois ideology. So - they can develop a consciousness of themselves which does not fully describe themselves, but which does describe them partially, and adequately enough for some.

The second part is basically that we should look to the psychology and manipulation/threats going on, because i do seriously hold that a basic impulse to hold your head up, stand tall, not take an impoverished (in all senses) life necessarily comes before actively engaging in class struggle actions - and that class struggle comes before consciousness of class struggle and consequently political consciousness can form. (Btw the idea that material reality comes before consciousness of it should be totally reasonable to anyone, it's one of THE basic points of dialectical materialism, but i just realized that most assumptions come at this the opposite way - "why don't people understand" instead of "why aren't they acting")

I like this Mao quote:
<"The advocates of physical education have not failed to devise various methods. If their efforts have nevertheless remained fruitless, it is because external forces are insufficient to move the heart…. "
All manner of theorizing can happen, but it doesn't necessarily bear fruit in the world, unless people are moved by their conditions to take up the ideas.

This tells me maybe it's the simple answer - we're too cushy. I don't buy it though, since most working people are some shade of miserable. So I'd rather look for the root of the problem in people's translation of their misery to action, and consider the external conditions sufficient. And this is where I end, because i have no clue why people have been broken… one idea i've seen floated is that it's because of an extremely repressive atmosphere, maybe a childhood thing, and people fear an all out conflict and existential threat by standing up for themselves. There's also each element of BITE to consider. Is people's behavior controlled? Yes, work and obedience becomes a habit possibly…. Is their information controlled? Yes, and communists could help that by spreading information about strikes, unionization, or just stories of cool workers standing up to the boss (and winning). Are our thoughts subject to review? Eh not so much, though there is a good deal of ideological media and shit on the internet which shames people for accepting class struggle, which is a form of thought control. So half-check. Emotional control? In many workplaces, families, and social groups yeah you could have lots of repercussions for feeling the wrong way at or about your work, or the government, or this mode of production and the ruling class as a whole.

So maybe the answer is just that we're under siege by the best known tactics to keep people servile, dependent, and fearful to date. I think as communists we have to focus our efforts on this point of first motivation, and promoting the feasibility (that it won't kill you, it won't lose you all your friends, it won't necessarily even lose your your job) of class struggle.

>scientists discovered Marx was right
heh, take that Karl Popper (and Gramsci, but for different reasons)

Also that's a good idea CPUSA not-Anon, to get people involved in community. Doubly so, because not only would it help out directly, but it's something people actually crave (and i'm reminded of how all capitalist "community" they sell always feels hollow upon experiencing it - the only real community people will get is radical proletarian community imo)
gotta give props to u also anon, for the actual material analysis




This one's not all true.


On the MSX?


What's the point in having the correct consciousness if you can't act on it?


to be smug about knowing better than the people who are ignorant and happy, so you can cope with depression


You can make useful assesments of the world to help act on it in the future.


there's no (ZERO) point in consciousness, correct or otherwise. Convince me that there's literally any benefit. Capitalism moves itself towards its own collapse. People will cope with it, and in that process they'll figure it out along the way. They could be robots for all i care.



What if that process actually never happens and capitalism can succesfully stabilize itself for centuries and centuries more. It's up to us, scientifically, technologically and organizationally (cybernetics) to destabilize this bitch instead of let it keep getting away because as a system is pretty damn resilient viable system. It will always retain is vital structural parts unless they are blown away and not by it's own but by humans.



As the internet brought more communist propaganda, it brought 1000x more anticommunist rhetoric. So it didn’t do any favors, especially to the uneducated masses.


It's not that these mass media organisations are owned by capitalists but that they can't exist unless participating in the system of exploitation, since they aren't publicly financed. They have no choice but to shill you products you don't need to cut through to the class consciousness you do, assuming their advertisers are comfortable endorsing a message that champions of their own liquidation. Catch 22.


Imperialism is in the proletariat's material interest if they live in the metropole, at least right now, we'll see if another 40 years of neoliberal austerity changes that


Never forget, that there is an equal amount of idiocy among all classes.

Now, add to the capitalists the fact, that generational wealth has made them the equivalent of a basement dealer posting all day in pol and thinking everything goes as his bubble tells him.

A point is at some point reached, where any non idiots left among the ruling class, have lost any connection with reality and are in essence .. idiots.


"The north pole is melting.. .. TIME TO TAKE THE SHIPS THROUGH THERE! MORE PROFIT!"

And that's how we get to the last episode of the 90s sitcom "Dinosaurs".

Capitalism ends. Because Bronze Age collapse 2, nuclear meltdown.


insufficient acceleration


doesnt the internet provide an avenue for workers to make a pro worker message


bluechew.com™ chewable tablets


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