No.1181196[Last 50 Posts]
>Antigovernment protests erupted in cities across Iran on Monday in response to a young woman’s death in the custody of the country’s morality police, with security forces firing on crowds in the northwest and killing four men, according to three Iran-focused human rights organizations.
>The demonstrations, led mostly by women, broke out in more than a dozen cities and on university campuses in Tehran. They were prompted by the death on Friday of Mahsa Amini, 22, who had been arrested three days earlier in Tehran for allegedly violating Iran’s hijab law, which requires women to cover their hair and wear loosefitting robes.
>Women protesting on Monday took their head scarves off and waved them in defiance. In Tehran, men and women chanted “we will fight and take our country back,” including students on campuses where fear of arrests, which can lead to a lifetime ban from higher education, has kept a lid on dissent for at least a year.
>Security forces in the capital fired gunshots and water cannons, chased protesters and beat them with batons, according to videos shared on social media by Iranian journalists.
>In Ms. Amini’s home province in the northwest, Kurdistan, where protests have been brewing since her funeral on Saturday, four men in three cities were shot and killed, said the Kurdistan Human Rights Group, which posted their names and photos online. Eighty-five other people were injured, including three children, and 200 were arrested, according to the rights group.
>In at least a dozen cities in Kurdistan Province, most shops closed after opposition Kurdish political groups issued a joint call for strikes, rights groups said.
>“We are witnessing a nationwide reaction, really like a George Floyd moment for the national conscience that can no longer bear the violence and the logic of the ruling class in killing ordinary citizens,” said Hadi Ghaemi, the executive director of the Center for Human Rights in Iran, a New York-based advocacy group.
All this when a recent survey of 40,000 Iranians showed that 60% are irreligious.
This is our Floyd
<t. US housed glow
>>1181196>Women protesting on Monday took their head scarves off and waved them in defiance.
I was watching some street videos from Tehran where a guy just walks around with a camera to film the street life, and it was interesting how many women cover their hair only just enough to comply with the law, and I could see some women at night not wearing hijabs at all. It's just a guess but I imagine people try to push the boundaries and get away with as much as they can until the religious police are like "hey you! Fix your hijab!"
Come on Ali, complete your fucking nuclear program or rot in hell.
This is hardly anything new btw, there have been longrunning protests since about 2018. The difference is that this time it is sectionalised (a Kurdish Woman was killed) and it involves more than just economic concerns (political reform regarding morality laws).
The Iranian islamic republic already has low legitimacy in the eyes of the people (both the recent elections had turnout <50%, and a decrease of 20-25% in democratic engagement), so the resentment towards the government for this kind of thing are perfectly logical.
Iran is basically torn on three axes: the economic, the cultural, and the social. Economics is simple in of itself, in part due to US sanctions, it has been under an austerity regime for a long time. The cultural tension comes from a farsi shiite regime ruling over various minorities, and the social comes from the unique laws regarding women. There have been political ones such in the past, like the Green Movement, but that has mostly receded into the background especially with the election of the reformists half a decade back (who are now out of power and as an institutional force have basically collapsed). This is all the real basic context you need for Iran today.
I think the visceral reaction to this has come from exactly that. The women of the Iranian regime hate the moraltiy rules and try to break them as best they can, then someone gets murdered
for that and it sparks popular outrage.
lets hope it lead to some secularization of the state. If the morality police alone is dismantled, thats still a good win.
and lets hope it does not get coopted and the country destroyed, or that it goes even harder on oppression as a response. Is there any smart leader at the helm of these protests yet ?
People on here will decry a popular revolt against a bourgeois state and somehow call themselves communists because this bourgeois state is a thorn in the side of other, larger bourgeois states.
We are not in a possition to let the u.s. have a geopolitical win of this scale atm
Literally the survival of the human species depends on the u.s. going down, ths seems more important to me than headscarves, but radlibs may disagree
Can you faggots stop getting topics off the front page of reddit? Jesus fucking christ leftypol is just a selfhosted subreddit at this point, fuck jannies for making it this way, even siberia is better
The Islamic Republic is going to have to drop its disdain for educated women if it's going to effectively resist CIA attempts at installing the Shah or the MEK
Don't see many people decrying it tbh. Besides which, I think our userbase is diverse enough to where there will be a significant number of people on both sides.
I, for one, will not shed any tears for Khamenei if he is overthrown. In terms of women's rights, it could be a good thing; it would be a shame if this were a colour revolution, however…
If there is a new government the prayer is that they will continue resisting the Saudi and the Israeli project in the region
>>1181349>the prayer is that they will continue resisting the Saudi and the Israeli project in the region
I hope so too. If they do, it will be a shining example of how social issues can progress without western involvement.
A homegrown movement of Iranian women gets pissed off enough with the status quo that they decide to take matters into their own hands? Pretty based tbf, provided they are actually a movement with a plan (not developed by the CIA) and this hasn't just devolved into riots like London in 2011.
There's no way Iranians could be upset bro their government hates the usa what more could they ask for of them??? This is all glow!!!!
>>1181361>bro trust me, Iranians would totally be better of under u.s. permanent hegemony and global genocide, it would be totally worth it if it means no more headscarves
also learn to greentext, retard
Iranian women will fight to get the society they deserve and there's nothing you can do about it.
Based or color revolution?
>>1181331>Literally the survival of the human species depends on the u.s. going down, ths seems more important to me than headscarves, but radlibs may disagree
IDK fam if Iran is so important maybe they shouldn't have had the kind of policies that would inspire people to do this. Seems like kind of an own-goal. What do they even gain by enforcing these kinds of rules?>>1181303
"Popular revolts" aren't automatically good. Was Hong Kong good? Reactionary, schizo, or color movements often try to garb themselves in liberatory messaging. They may even successfully subvert what was originally a progressive or even radical movement. We should not jump to conclusions about what is happening.
Name a revolution againt an u.s. enemy that wasn´t a color revolution
So you're more interested inmoral and cultural victories than actually materially archieving socialism, gotcha
Lol remember when Iran tried to co-opt the George Floyd riots
what did they do?
I think Iranian foreign policy is based but it doesn't excuse the retarded reactionary religious shit the state is up to. In fact if you think Iran is based you should welcome such reform.
Are there more secular elements in the current iranian governement that could make this happen, or is it 100% theocratic nutjobs?
The issue is that legitimate movements with legitimate grievances/demands are often hijacked by well organized, and well funded (ie glowie supported) liberal orgs whose goals align with the US. They become the voice and guiding force of the movement and turn it into a vehicle for pro-imperialist regime change. This is the playbook of a colour revolution. It's not that people aren't justified in resisting the theocratic policies of the Iranian government, it's that their efforts to do so provide an opportunity for the US to worm their way in and subject the country to imperialist exploitation.
Critical support for islamic theocracy and anti-imperialist capitalism.
Because it leads to the US and thus global porky getting yet another W.
>>1181435>"Popular revolts" aren't automatically good. Was Hong Kong good?
Given how many in the Western "Left" supported the Hong Kong riots and every single NATO "humanitarian intervention", this person would unironically say that it is.
>>1181435>Reactionary, schizo, or color movements
How could protests wanting to separate religion from law be any of these three
>>1181435>IDK fam if Iran is so important maybe they shouldn't have had the kind of policies that would inspire people to do this. Seems like kind of an own-goal
Of course. Everyone here would love if the government wasn't absolutely fucking retarded and reactionary. >>1181242
Thanks for the context. That was really good. >>1181461
I agree, of course.
Hi all iranian anon here .i think as a insider it is good
to inform you About the current situation .
We had many protests in the past decade about one every 2~3 years but this one is bit different.
First the event has happened in a Kurdish majority city and it has been seen by them as an act of aggression
Second the moral police is a awful institution anon here are correct women here mostly do bear minimum so the police dose not arrest them. But it's not only women man to can be in trouble for stuff like having a tattoo or being on date or even having a weird haircut
And lastly the outside world reactions have been bit off this time outsider network in farsi like bbc and voc farsi and also iran international have always covered iranian protests and crimes of the current government. But they never before called for violent actions but the other day they called for a violent armed revolution.
Hopefully this will not cause civil war in my view because the correct government is to unpopular to be supported by the masses.
>>1181489>The issue is that legitimate movements with legitimate grievances/demands are often hijacked by well organized, and well funded (ie glowie supported) liberal orgs whose goals align with the US.
This situation will happen in all revolutions or social movements outside of the US sphere of influence. These movements know they have to fight both external and internal influences that seek to move the movement away from fighting for progressive goals. Most Iranians know that the US would love to coop their movements, but they also know that the risk of the US should not stop them from seeking improvements and changes to the horrid status quo.
I feel like some on this bored who live comfortably in the west are ok with prols outside of the US sphere of influence suffering as long as the capitalist states they live in oppose US hegemony. This is opportunist thinking, the fight for progress and against capitalism does not stop once it reaches the border of nations who fight the current hegemon. A fight against imperialism without fighting capitalism will always allow new imperialists to pop up, as such you must fight the capitalists at home and the other ones abroad.
Would you say this is a mostly Kurdish phenomenon or are you seeing a lot of like minded Persians, Azeri, Balochis, etc come out?
No it has already spread all over the country but the start in Kurdish territories had to effect the central government has not pushed it as much because they are afraid of a Kurdish independent movement coming out of it. And the second is that existing Kurdish independent movement is now gotten more popular and in some cases have gotten guns
Yeah balkanizing Iran would be a huge disaster and a boon for the Israelis and Saudis, hopefully it doesn't shake out that way
A country that the US does not want to exist, has internal conflicts, and may collapse into civil war…
WHAT COULD POSSIBLY GO WRONG?
Yes it would be like the Yugoslavian wars but even worse in some aspects it would totally shift the balance of power Saudi Arabia and Israel would run free without any opposition and it could even start larger war between independent movements of our neighboring countries.
Patriarchy is material.
Sorry Iranian women, you have to live under morality police because some westerner says your state is too geopolitically useful to fight the US.
Maybe if the Iranian goverment told the religious to fuck off this wouldn't be happening.
Bring back the Tudeh Party
Also keep in mind other revolutions got kicked off by women (the French Revolution). It might be too pat to say the men throw themselves into it because they don't want to look like yellow bellied cowards in front of the women but it's a thing
They still exist, in France
then there is no possibility of abolishing it under capitalism, hence these protests are pointless
Not happening since the government is headed by Islamic clerics and they don't want to lose power.
God I wish peoples' revolt and regime change could actually happen with the long arm of US intelligence pulling the strings and manipulating leadership behind the scenes, like even if the Iranian government is crap I'd rather them than some American puppet that keeps preserve the anticommunist status quo.
If the Iranian government were smart they would just reform the headscarf thing and maybe give the Kurds a nominally autonomous region to shut them up. It would look great compared America's nutty Saudi darlings to have women walking around with hair out in the middle east in designated enemy nation Iran. But the theocracy is probably too entrenched in the leadership I would imagine. It's too inflexible, and it would be hard to replace without the CIA corrupting whatever replaced it. Not a great situation overall.
Yeah, it seems that Iran's population is simply not religious enough to tolerate the current rulings+the autistic morality police. I'm sure that from a secular point of view, even then they would probably be wary of liberalizing current religious laws, since history has shown that when you liberalize a little bit, people want more and more but perhaps a lifting of the mandatory hijab would be enough. Considering all the other problems Iran is currently facing, I think most would be satisfied with that.
Cringe, glow harder.
Death to America, Death to Israel
The Iranians don’t seem to have that history of a single religious hegemony. Not much different to that of India honestly.
>>1181542>And lastly the outside world reactions have been bit off this time outsider network in farsi like bbc and voc farsi and also iran international have always covered iranian protests and crimes of the current government. But they never before called for violent actions but the other day they called for a violent armed revolution.>Hopefully this will not cause civil war in my view because the correct government is to unpopular to be supported by the masses.
Hi IranAnon. The BBC is calling for violent armed revolution in Iran?
It's a shit situation, and my sympathies are obviously with the women in Iran. Fomenting something like like this is literally the reason that intel agencies exist. It's what they do. There is lifetimes of scholarship on this.
I thought the morality police were a recessive force in Iran in recent years, there's been some reporting suggesting this. Were these deaths an anomaly?
Anonymous was hijacked by glowies in the early 2010s.
No the moral police have been a thing for a long time now. But before they were less active, under raesei Presidency they have become like wasps. About the killing i can say that beating were a common tactic of them. But it this time they went to far.
(a small thing the correct translation is guidance patrol)
Didn't the Iranian president recently say that the Holocaust "might have happened"? I can't believe anyone would side with Holocaust revisionism
>>1182463>I can't believe anyone would side with Holocaust revisionism
…not even almost the entire Middle East?
So these women should just abide by 8th century morality laws because ???
Patsocs gonna be asking the women in their lives to wear a hijab now because of geopolitical reasons.
Thus marks the transformation of Iran into another American/Israeli satellite.
Nearly every protest that happens in the world nowadays is being manipulated by foreign powers; the first and most important thing people should fight for is the destruction of capitalism. As long as the people currently in power remain in power, expanding their wealth at the expense of the common people every day, exploiting them and manipulating world events, no real changes can happen. Once they're gone, however, (and they easily could be removed if the people knew and came together) true independence can be found.
As it stands, there are two outcomes to this: one, nothing happens, and the Iranian elites continue to exploit the people, or two, the government gets toppled and the West exploits the people instead. Both are shitty outcomes.
I just hope the Iranian people either see the bigger picture and put up a real fight against the real enemies, or they're happy with whatever the outcome is. Ignorance is bliss, I guess.
it'll not necessarily lead to reformation but at the very least people are becoming braver. back then you wouldn't see a major protest in 6 or 7 years but we are seeing major country wide protests every single year. honestly i don't know what future is preparing for us…
It is during times like these that people should look for these signs before assuming anything about whether something is color or not. None of these by itself is an indication of anything, but should to be analyzed all together.
>is the political situation on ground (economic conditions, recent developments, historical precedent, etc) viable for such populist discontent?
>Has there been public statements from major imperialist powers about these protests, for or against them?
>If any anti-imperialist powers speak against them, are they doing so because of realpolitik? It doesn't necessary mean the discontent doesn't have potential or proletarian characteristics.
>Who are the leaders if any arise, and what are their positions?
>Where is the "Left" during all of this? What are they saying?
(USER WAS BASED FOR THIS POST)
Looks like Venezuela is about to lose one of its only allies in the world, which will be a huge hit against its already fragile economy.
Burgers might get to kill two birds with one stone, and not only deal a blow to the SCO, but also consolidate their influence in LATAM
And as predicted, radlibs are cheering it on itt
>b-but this time it wont be a color revolution, n-nevermind people that say this are literally always wrong
Genuine revoltiobs can only occur when the us wont exist anymore, which might be never now
So fucked up that iranian women don't want to be stuck as second class citizens that can get murdered for not hiding their hair, haven't they considered how this impacts on geopolitics???
In general I agree, and I'm usually the first to criticize people who assume that every instance of unrest in a anti-US capitalist country is a colour revolution attempt. That being said, it often is, and we should learn to recognize the signs that point to this. If Western governments immediately issue harsh statements condemning the government and praising the protesters, if the MSM turns the protesters into darlings and freedom fighters overnight, if they are issuing demands that sound like they were drafted by the state department and IMF, if there is considerable involvement of groups with USAID, NED, or other glowie funding, these are all red flags.
Reply to the posts that said this. This is obviously a scenario that can very easily be coopted by burgerglow. That doesn't mean women should stop trying to improve their lot in Iran, but there also is nothing about this that contradicts burger hegemony. Liberal movements like this are usually not diciplined enough to root out glow. However early returns are okay, maybe burger agents haven't acted yet.
Calm down anon nothing is going to happen. Something similar happened in Iranian Baluchistan a few months back. People will riot and protest, some cops and protesters will die and everything will go back to normal. Iran is like the US, it has some intense social contradictions but it's easily suppressed with violence from the state. After it's all over Iran will make surface level reforms that maintain the peace till the next social upheaval caused by compounding contradictions.
Nah bro, mandatory hijab has to go.
>>1181331>Literally the survival of the human species depends on the u.s. going down
And therefore we must support Russia, China and Iran?
and y'all tanquis are more obsessed with ending U hegemony, how exactly? By applauding Russia when they invade podunk east european cities? When capitalist countries like Iran would rather their people suffer than concede to imperialist demands?
>>1182713>concede to imperialist demands
This is naive. Iran's concessions that are demanded of it by the empire will weaken it enough that it will be invaded by the America. Many Iranians, including progressive ones, do not want to concede.
crazy, right? its almost as if we live in the real world and not in your fantasy land of ideological purity
Yes and no. The Imperialist states are very short sited and will back anything it thinks will destabilize its enemies. Remember that the US backed the mujahedin and Germany backed the bolsheviks. Both became the rulers of their respective states and were able to fight off their former backers. Also Tudeh has already backed the protests and so has local orgs(https://bit.ly/3SlcRLH
) On the other hand the US has verbally supported these protests, so we can see how this can be a complicated matter where many external and internal forces are trying to lead the masses. We saw a similar situation in Kazakhstan were people not on the ground used the fact of USID funding for a few orgs to justify calling the uprising there a colourrevolution. This was despite the communist party on the ground debunking this notion. (https://www.idcommunism.com/2022/01/kazakhstans-uprising-isnt-color.html
We must be mindful to not just take cheers by western commentators and politicians as meaning the movement is led by the west. The west and the local capitalists want you to see any movement as such. We must always look beyond the words of the west and see what is going on at the ground level so we can determine the true nature of a movement. lastly like with the Cuban revolution it may take time for the real nature to come to the surface.
You realise how fucking insane this sounds right? You can't fight for an improvement in your life because the CIA might get involved! Literally Russiagate but for western leftists.
NTA. It is
insane, but it's also readily observed reality. Anti-imperialist right wing shitholes are always in this contradiction, between authoritarian shit government and western imperialism. The line they have to straddle is insanely delicate, at risk of their country being thrown decades back and becoming a violent kleptocracy with uncontrolled poverty, or at risk of being deleted by the ruling government or criminal cartels. Just read history bb. It's not even a hidden history, it is pretty well known.
Yeah it’s extremely clear to me and anyone who knew what anonymous was that it’s now a blatant op.
Recently they made lots of noise letting women in a futball match. Maybe its a step in the direction of reform?
You don't understand, nobody here is against the women protesting. We think the women have every right to protest and the government is also justified in cracking down on these protests to prevent destabilization. Everybody wins.
>>1182805>the right to not wear fabric over your hear is worth suicide bombing your country into anarchy
Are they leftists though? Sounds like reactionaries to me.
>>1182849>and the government is also justified in cracking down on these protests to prevent destabilization.
Imagine being so fucking cucked you support state violence in oppressing the common man
Hang yourself or go the Tehran and come out of the closet so they can do it for you>>1182851
It's very fucking clear that people are rioting for more reasons than hijabs, also don't sprain your wrists with all that pearl clutching you're doing on behalf of the Iranian bourgeoisie
Nah ur right bro getting killed for not wearing a piece of cloth on your head is worth it
>>1182849>You don't understand, nobody here is against the women protesting. >We think the women have every right to protest<and the government is also justified in cracking down on these protests to prevent destabilization.
the thought process of the deranged.
pretty sure its satire guys
I didn't say that.
I took part in Anonops raids over a decade ago. Back in the early 2010s Anonymous/AnonOps was supporting Arab spring and the war against Gaddafi. Years later it was confirmed that there were glowies infiltrating the movement. Of course that's what happens when you have a decentralized, theoryless movement of young gullible people
>>1182912>pretty sure its satire guys
Well, given the fact that East Germany gave money to Otto Straßer, I prefer to err on the right side of Poe's law. Also Descartes:
<“Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they're in good company.”
The absolute state of theorylets and grass-touchlets
I know which meme you are referring to, and there is definitely some truth in it, but Descartes never said this, it was a random HackerNews user: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1011498
The man depicted in the meme isn't Descartes btw, it's Voltaire.
Yes, once American capital will crumble, the nice Chinese and Russian transnational corporations will benevolently save us all. The primary contradiction isn't between workers and capital, but Western capital vs. Oriental capital. Once Oriental capital will win, porkies will realize the errors of their ways, give up chasing profits and bring forth a new era of socialism. Trust the plan.
>>1182851>>the right to not wear fabric over your hear is worth suicide bombing your country into anarchy
>>1182774>Also Tudeh has already backed the protests and so has local orgs
That's a good point and something I forgot to mention. We should always defer to communists from the country in question when we are unsure about something.>On the other hand the US has verbally supported these protests, so we can see how this can be a complicated matter where many external and internal forces are trying to lead the masses. We saw a similar situation in Kazakhstan were people not on the ground used the fact of USID funding for a few orgs to justify calling the uprising there a colourrevolution.
Not exactly. The US statement on Kazakhstan was actually very tepid when you compare it to their statements on HK, Belarus, and other undisputable glowops. They also hardly made a peep when the CSTO intervention came instead of crying bloody murder.>We must be mindful to not just take cheers by western commentators and politicians as meaning the movement is led by the west.
Sure, but like I said, you can often tell the difference between situations like Kazakhstan where there is some generic call for calm and restraint vs Belarus where they are basically calling for regime change.
as usual /leftypol/ has such little faith in the international proletariat that they think the only way they wont become useful idiots of empire is if they shut up and accept the temporarily-embarassed comprador boot of national bourgeois on their neck
hey you're the iranian guy?
Been like this ever since the Floyd shit ended. Almost as if they become more reasonable when something happens in their country.
Almost as if its mostly burgers that are the edgy contrarians here.
Really makes you think what the demographics of this site are.
When the sun rises over burgerland, it sets over /leftypol/.
marcyism is really a cancer. the fact that a lot of people on this board admired & thought we should emulate CALEB MAUPIN, and some of them still do, is incredible.
The interests of the Iranian people are these:
To become full members of the SCO, rights for LGBT, Socialism, Secularism, Being able to feed themselves, and being able to survive sanctions on Iran. This all requires remaining in close proximity with the multipolar powers of Eurasia, but also a removal of theocratic leadership.
How can this be accomplished? Considering iran is heavily sanctioned by the west, and china is the only country willing to invest in the economy with things like belt and road, then i'd say joining SCO is the only option iran's current leadership has. However, if Iran's people promote leftism and socialism in iran while also seeking cooperation with eurasia, China and Russia will hypothetically look the other way as they depose islamic theocracy. This requires an alignment of the loyalties of the uprising in favor of integration with their neighbors, and an allegiance away from NATO. Islam stunts the country's potential for growth, and without socialism the country cannot grow under the constant sanctions and embargoes. Even the government itself realizes this, and is therefore moving toward integration with russia and china. only a socialist party which is more pro-russia and pro-china can really outdo the islamic republic and hope to exchange leadership without being forcefully crushed. The sanctions on russia have actually strengthened iran by proxy, because it caused russia to quit caring about enforcing sanctions on iran (and north korea). Liberals will have nobody to blame but themselves if something terrible happens to the protestors, thats why i believe this revolt in iran should be more orderly and conduct itself in a manner whereupon violence against it can be condemned by iran's neighbors. This is a moment where intelligent political leadership of the revolt is necessary. Furthermore, Iran's protestors should learn from the CSTO intervention in Kazakhstan, a popular revolt which was condemned by the west, by NATO, and by CSTO too. America's biolabs in kazakhstan and russia's potassium resource was too precious for the protestors, backed by the banned trotskyist and communist parties, to be allowed to depose the government. This revolution in Iran must bolster its defense against cooption by Western ideology, by Liberalism, in order to not be crushed with Russian and Chinese support.
I'm the tankiest person here so don't cope about me supporting a color revolution. I want to support a secular, but pro-multipolar, revolt in Iran. Islam is failing the country.
That fucker needs to get the Trotsky treatment after the revolution.
the state has opened fire on the people. western humanoids still think people should stay shut bcs le based anti-usa. fuck you and fuck your country.
internet is most likely under severe restrictions in most cities. the 2019 gets a re-run.
another iranian anon here
yeah mobile data is completely cut off in most part of the country while wifi is still accessible in some parts
>>1181196>>Antigovernment protests erupted in cities across Iran on Monday in response to a young woman’s death in the custody of the country’s morality police
uyghur this reads like a technodystiopia set in the 1600s
What do most people think about the situation? Are things happening in multiple cities? Is it a significant event? It's hard to tell just reading Western media where everything to do with Iran is hyperbolized.
The majority hates the state. All chants are anti-gov now. People are attacking the police with molotovs and stones. This is big news, a first really. It's wide-spread and happening in cities where it hadn't happened before.
>>1183128>What do most people think about the situation?
even the schizos of islamist schizos(except paid ones) are saying the government is fucking it up>Are things happening in multiple cities?
yeah>Is it a significant event?
it's manifestation of a nation's anger so yeah
As usual i have the best take in the thread. I guess you could call me a sigma male~
Imageboards sample the hot articles from Reddit, Twitter, MSN, etc all the time.
There's not even much to imageboards to begin with.
As much as i hate Dengoids and Putinoids, yes. Unconditionally, at least in this phase.
What the anti-imperialist nations of the world need more more than ever is stability, despite the efforts of the west these nations need to develop productive forces and security, and efforts to sabotage this only serve the United States. Its so fucking silly that so-called communists like you will immediately side with the imperialists in calls to destabilize geopolitical enemies as soon as some BS protest about stupid liberal notions of human rights pops up, completely ignoring the reality of economic devastation and destitution that occurs when imperialists proclaim victory in said protests, I think girls in Iran would greatly prefer wearing a stupid scarf then becoming a drug-addicted child prostitute even if US state media claims the latter is more free.
You see uhh the only possible state configuration for something antagonistic to the US is an eternal, unchanging theocracy. Anything that hurts this state is American imperialism. And as a communist, a practitioner of dialectical materialism, I take pride in my ability to not think about people who are forced to live under this state. I also reject any form of progress except an instantaneous transition to socialism. Because I'm a communist.
leftypol thinks an anti capitalist government is a pro working class government but reality is something else
not even anti capitalist but actually anti US(supposedly lol)
I fucking love it when liberals whine about human rights in a country they just do happen to be geopolitically antagonistic towards, only to completely ignore imperialist butchery, mass poverty and violence that characterizes nations that have fallen victim to the "liberation" movements they support and similarly ignore even worse human rights abuses in nation's allied to imperialism.
>>1183174>What the anti-imperialist nations of the world need more more than ever is stability
If these nations want stability then they should cease clinging to retarded religious fundamentalism that people are clearly fed up with. You can't call for stability without acknowledging the destabilizing effects of Iran's refusal to resolve its internal contradictions.
That's no excuse for imperialist regime change. You can't call something an internal contradiction and support resolving it through US ambitions.
so fucking depressing that people think like this.
you are an american, stick to your own fucking country.
>>1183235>That's no excuse for imperialist regime change. You can't call something an internal contradiction and support resolving it through US ambitions.
Who is supporting regime change? If regime change becomes a possibility due to these protests then it's entirely the fault of the Iranian government. Colour revolutions can only work by building off already existing discontent and grievances, and Iran's conservative social policies are clearly generating such discontent. This isn't some problem that is caused by factors outside of the government's control. Sanctions aren't forcing them to have literal morality police telling women to cover up. It would literally cost them nothing to put a stop to this medieval bullshit.
Has Hezbollah put out any statement? I'm not sure what would happen to resistance factions like the Houthis would do if the Iranian government was overthrown
They would be squashed like bugs except maybe Hezbollah.
>>1183265>I'm not sure what would happen to resistance factions like the Houthis would do if the Iranian government was overthrown
Have some faith in these groups anon. The way you talk about them is no different than the US govt. They can operate with or without Iran giving them a few dollars and guns. If you must worry do it for Iraq's popular mobilization forces. Groups within the coalition have been fighting each other on and off after Qasem Soleimani's death. If Iran were to collapse then these Iraqi militias would more or less devolve in to bandits.
I'm not worried they would be squashed right away, im worried any setback could delay the ending of Yemen's suffering, that awful war has gone on way too long already thanks to gulf imperialism
Covering up women has been part of their culture for hundreds of years. Why is it all of a sudden such a big issue that people want to protest over? It's the work cultural imperialism aimed at subverting the consciousness and unity of the population with bourgeois individualist values.
The Iranian government and it's institutions isn't run by complete retards. Because they aren't being propped up artificially by its hydrocarbon industry and the American MIC, unlike Saudi Arabia, they are actually beholden to their people. If these protests are genuine and not some glowie op then Iran will eventually make the necessary reforms.
>>1183467>i-it's their culture
>>1183467>Why is it all of a sudden such a big issue that people want to protest over?
Maybe because they're getting sent to jail over it.
The Iranian State is a reactionary bourgeois one, it is nothing of the sort.
nato simps really do only have strawmen, dont they?
I thought imperialized people would care the most about historical accuracy, anon? Is there something about it that could make them look bad?
what is the internal political situation of the iranian state? are the clerical factions the only thing preventing iran from getting gobbled up by western powers?
>>1183551>Was it "cultural imperialism" when Nasser litetally laughed in the face of clerics who suggested mandatory head coverings for women
Yes. It is sad because these revolutionaries thought they were doing something good when all they were doing is serving bourgeoise interests unwittingly, many such cases. What is really woman's liberation that you speak of? It's the right of women to atomize themselves for capital. To cut themselves off from families and communities to become consumerist slaves. It's not liberation at all.
As if though men don't do that alot. Men use there families and guilds as sports trophies of their own existence.
Matters not the political system.
Fine by me. Let's just hope the West leaves them alone.
You can have connection with your family and community without being forced to wear a fabric on your head. Actually I'd start to hate my community if they wanted to micromanage my life with petty bullshit like that.
Iran can't really supply Houthis that much because of Saudi blockade.
Most of the Houthi weapons were already in Yemen before the war. They aren't dependent on Iran to survive.
>>1183489>The Iranian State is a reactionary bourgeois one, it is nothing of the sort
Isn't Iran a theocracy?
So is this a serious protest?
This isn't like the Cuban protests right?
The J11 protests as they started were real and legitimate, it was more about covid and slow hospital response times but very quickly miamians spread the #SOS bullshit on twitter and co-opted it.
The Tudeh party came in support of the protests, so I'd say it might actually be an opportunity for them
Don’t these uppity femoids know that their radlib protest will slow down based multipolarity???
They should do some more realpolitik and sell weapons to Israel and Saudi Arabia if they really want to achieve communism.
Tudeh supports I trust them
Hope they don't dissapoint but I doubt that'll happen
I recall the old BO back on 8chan banned support of the Tudehs because they were "Trotskyite wreckers" or some shit
Tudeh exist mostly in France, I doubt either they nor the CPIran (Maoist) are really in a position to radicalize these protests to their ends>>1183940
The MEK are worse than your average trot, they're an insane cult with weird celibacy rules the leaders break all the time. They have John Bolton's enthusiastic endorsement, their cells in the US function much the same as right wing Cubans in Florida.
I could have sworn he conflated the Tudehs with those guys, granted it was nearly 5 years ago
itt: americans seethe over protests against a brutal dictatorship.
time to wipe the doritos dust off your fat ass, cumskin and just wish you had half the courage they have.
People fighting against the oppression of the theocratic Iranian government are allowed to accept the support of western NGOs and ignore purity politics and concern trolling
A bourgeois state can exist in many forms, monarchy, republic or theocracy
Thie highest-end weapon system are Iranian imports though.
The absolute hell a u.s. puppet governement would subject the Iranian people to will make them wish a cloth over their head was their biggest concern
Also lol at glowies freely being able to shill for ngos on here, this site really is dead
If Iran wants to neutralize the danger of a colour revolution then the easiest and best way to do that is to repeal all this spooky theocratic nonsense. A colour revolution can't happen where there is no pre-existing unrest, and it would cost the Iranian government nothing to secularize.
I want to kiss you. I usually don't agree with your posts, but I want to say that's a good take
>>1184251>and it would cost the Iranian government nothing to secularize
You realize this government gets its legitimacy from claiming to be the religious leaders? Secularizing would delegitimize this regime.
Just out of curiosity, does Iran produce any gas in large quatities?
>>1184258>Secularizing would delegitimize this regime.
If that were true there wouldn't be riots against the governments retarded theocratic social policies. Iran is an ancient civilization with a cohesive and unique history, language, and culture. I see no reason why it couldn't exist as a secular nation state.>>1184260
Which is why they should neutralize the danger of a colour revolution by secularizing.
>>1184264>it couldn't exist as a secular nation state.
It could definitely exist, but you're literally asking the clerics to give up their own power.
>>1184265>but you're literally asking the clerics to give up their own power
I don't expect such a thing to happen, but all that shows is that these clerics are a millstone around the neck of Iran's ability to perform a progressive role. Maybe they could be reformed into a ceremonial role like European monarchs.
>>1184264>If that were true there wouldn't be riots against the governments retarded theocratic social policies
A couple thousand gusanos begging for attention and western media giving them outside coverage does not represent the will of the people and never has. You playing dumb about this point makes you glow
Not wanting to be forced to live under 7th century morality laws doesn't make you a gusano ffs. If people were really on board with these policies they wouldn't need literal morality police to enforce them.
Yeah it's almost like that's the problem
Apparently you can buy 100 gallons of gasoline for 20 dollars in Iran, so much suffering.
Hang yourself, or better yet go to Tehran and come out of the closet and the cops can do it for you
To be fair, they give you an option to either hang or become a woman. Iran is a living hell for gays but a bastion for transgenders.
I don't know much about Iran and it's internal politics.
But i have noticed that these protests coincide with Iran selling drone weapons to Russia for the War in Ukraine.
I'm here to ask the question if there is a relation between those two events ?
Like the US having activated some kind of political instability operations in retaliation for supplying weapons to Russia.
>>1184344>Like the US having activated some kind of political instability operations in retaliation for supplying weapons to Russia
It's actually CIA agents that are killing women and gays and workers in iran, the theocracy is just getting framed
>>1184344>Like the US having activated some kind of political instability operations in retaliation for supplying weapons to Russia.
The US can't manufacture political instability out of thin air. Even professional agitators can't get people into the streets if they aren't already upset about something.
Uygha iran has had mass protests for years
>>1184348>It's actually CIA agents that are killing women and gays and workers in iran
Wow that's terrible, but how is that related to my question ?
Are the protests related to the drone weapons or not ?>>1184344>The US can't manufacture political instability out of thin air. Even professional agitators can't get people into the streets if they aren't already upset about something.
So you are saying that they can only hijack existing protests, that seems reasonable.
So is there any hijacking going on ?>>1184353>Uygha iran has had mass protests for years
Why is it in the news now ?
whoops clicked wrong post>>1184355
>>1184363>So is there any hijacking going on ?
It's safe to assume that they're at least trying, which is why the government should relax the morality laws to put a stop to the protests. This would be the easiest way to remove the basis for US meddling.
>>1184363>Are the protests related to the drone weapons or not ?
most politically aware leftypol user
>>1184375>It's safe to assume that they're at least trying, which is why the government should relax the morality laws to put a stop to the protests. This would be the easiest way to remove the basis for US meddling.
I think they will do the opposite.
Their logic is probably going to be like this<US spies hide within the opposition to the morality laws<we don't know who is a genuine protester and who is an US agitator <if we get rid of all the opposition to morality laws , we get rid of the US spies within.
What you are suggesting will be rejected because it contains the logic that the Iranian government should change a policy in response to US meddling. Not letting the US have influence is probably a high political priority in Iran. The idea that US imperialism can be a vehicle to facilitate social progress is wrong. What's really going to happen is that social-progress will get tainted with us imperialism and then rejected. It would be slightly more realistic for you to appeal the US government to stop sabotaging political organizing that seeks social progress.>>1184383>We have been posting about it for fucking years
I must have missed it. Sorry>>1184384
Ok then.>>1184388>most politically aware leftypol user
Thanks, i guess.
>>1184344>I don't know much about Iran and it's internal politics.>But i have noticed that these protests coincide with Iran selling drone weapons to Russia for the War in Ukraine.>I'm here to ask the question if there is a relation between those two events ?>Like the US having activated some kind of political instability operations in retaliation for supplying weapons to Russia.
Any analysis of historical western geopolitical behavior will suggest that yes, there is a relation between those events. Even the timing is enough to suggest a relation.
>>1184465>What you are suggesting will be rejected because it contains the logic that the Iranian government should change a policy in response to US meddling.
I'm saying that US meddling is only successful by manipulating already existing discontent, which stems from Iran's internal contradictions. The United States didn't conjure opposition to the morality laws out of thin air. If Iran wishes to neutralize this meddling, it must do everything possible to resolve these contradictions, like draining a pond to kill the fish. In this case this means doing away with ridiculous laws based on reactionary religious superstition from the middle ages.
>>1184474>Any analysis of historical western geopolitical behavior will suggest that yes, there is a relation between those events. Even the timing is enough to suggest a relation.
That could be true.>>1184479
No you are just doubling down on your erroneous logic. i already rejected it, stop repeating it. Imperialism is not a tool that can be use to support social progress. That is ruling ideology, it only serves the purpose of manufacturing consent for imperialism, it does not work in reality. The US spies within the movement for social progress will have the effect that social progress will be equated as a foreign influence, and that will cause social regression. No government can do what you are suggesting, because they can't appear to be yielding to foreign influence.
>>1184505>No you are just doubling down on your erroneous logic. i already rejected it, stop repeating it.
Yeah you rejected it without providing a counter argument. Give me one reason why Iran should maintain this absurd policies. What benefit are they deriving from it?>Imperialism is not a tool that can be use to support social progress.
I didn't say it could. I said that if Iran wants to neutralize US meddling they should remove the conditions that allow it to operate.>The US spies within the movement for social progress will have the effect that social progress will be equated as a foreign influence
That will only be the case if the government digs in its heels and refuses to grant any concessions. If it offers no way for loyal Iranians to have their demands for secularization met then the movement for secularism and women's liberation will turn to the West for support. If on the other hand Iranians feel that they can make progress in these areas by working within their own institutions, they will have no reason to align themselves with any foreign power. This is exactly the strategy pursued by Western governments and the workers' movement to great success in the 20th century. By providing avenues for the (limited and controlled) advancement of labour rights they rebuilt working class support for the bourgeois state.
You're making an obvious mistake in assuming social unrest will go away if you just "give them what they want"
The reality is that what libs want is never enough. If Iran gives in it will only galvanize the opposition more EXACTLY like it happened under Gorbachev. Do you really think this is about women's fashion choices and not about power?
There is no social base in Iran for something like an MEK takeover or the restoration of the Shah, Gorbachev was tearing down a system that upheld the rights of women, the Islamic Republic oppresses women, less so than Saudi Arabia but they still have much less to lose than women in the former Soviet Union or Belarus or (pre islamist) Afghanistan
>>1184571>The reality is that what libs want is never enough.
That may be true of liberal activists, but they won't be able to generate a popular following and will sink into irrelevance. People are taking to the streets because they find the morality laws overbearing and their enforcement heavy handed. Do you really think every single one of them is on the glowie payroll and not ordinary people fed up with this nonsense?>If Iran gives in it will only galvanize the opposition more EXACTLY like it happened under Gorbachev
Oh really? Does Iran have multiple high ranking officials that are going to dismantle their government from within the minute women are allowed to walk the streets with their hair showing? If not then it's nothing like Gorbachev and the USSR. The problem there was that the counterrevolutionaries were operating at the highest levels of government, which makes it a completely different scenario than what we see in Iran. Not only that, but the kinds of concessions that Gorbachev was making were directly related to the question of the Soviet economic and political system. The issue here is a social one, it has literally no relation to Iran's anti-imperialist foreign policy.>Do you really think this is about women's fashion choices and not about power?
For most of the people protesting it's quite literally about being able to live in a reasonably secular society. Those are the people who need to he reached.
>>1184571>wanting basic secularism so to not have a literal religious morality police killing people is lib
fuck off retard
Agree. The morality police bullshit should be thrown out of window. No use in harassing you people while they're still withstanding sanctions.
It seems like hard power or """authoritarianism""" tends to go hand in hand with resisting imposition and maintaining sovereignty.
How do we know that this isn’t a psyop created by the Democrats as part of a “woke fash” movement?
>bombing Iran because they’re not woke enough
remember when "both sides are bad" meant that you'd support protests against CSTO in kazakhstan, and then support russia killing nazis in ukraine? because that's what communism is about, picking the sides that are actually good for us. you will align with russia as it kills nazis, and you will align against russia when it puts down popular revolts.
also i support the protestors in iran at the moment, but i believe its leadership should be tudeh and whatever other communist groups there are. they need to align with SCO, not NATO.
Maupin was right nevertheless.
We grew up from liberal idealism and have a better understanding of primary contradiction.
What if I support Russia for killing nazis in Ukraine but I also support Ukraine for killing Putinoids? Mutual destruction of both of these groups would be the best for the peoples of Russia and Ukraine.>>1184704
Time to stop posting, Caleb. Those cheeks ain’t gonna spank themselves.
Putinoids are not fascists.
you'd be wrong to support this, because in fact many in the LDNR militias are communist sympathizers, and many in the russian military want to return to a stronger soviet-style economy. furthermore putin is the only thing holding the right together in russia, and if he dies the CPRF, probably having split into two factions as a result of youth disaffection, will be in the best position to consolidate power, which means a union state, possibly dengist, controlling parts of ukraine and belarus as well. furthermore ukraine has a much larger right-wing presence, including the people of ukraine who align themselves with the right. opposition against elensky is literally banned, so all opposition in ukraine has their best chance of being reformed under russian occupation. this means that objectively speaking, russia is "collectively more left wing" than ukraine, and has the best chance of creating an alternative to capitalism between the two countries.
>>1184709>The primary contradiction is not proletariat vs bourgeoise but rather Western capital vs Eastern capitalism and you’re an idealist lib if you believe otherwise
And people said this anon >>1182993
was making a strawman
>>1184725>many in the russian military want to return to a stronger soviet-style economy
Then maybe they shouldn't play a role in the bourgeois state's armed forces specifically designed to protect the bourgeoisie's interests.
>>1184725>LDNR militias are communist sympathizers
Didn’t they outlaw communist parties from taking power lmao?>many in the russian military want to return to a stronger soviet-style economy.
Ostalgie for being a world power and having a STRONK economy =/= actually wanting communism back. Ask any of these top rank generals and army men to leave their mansions and bonds with the oligarchy and you’ll see them go full Zelensky ASAP.
is there actual communist sympathizers the rank and file members of army though? Idk best case scenario they pull a Chavez but I strongly doubt it.>>1184737>this is extremely dangerous to our liberalism.
You mean dangerous to anyone who ain’t an “Eurasian” porky.
>>1181331>We are not in a possition to let the u.s. have a geopolitical win of this scale atm
Who are "we" and why do supposed communists think their private conversation on Albanian basket weaving forums need to suppress the "critical" part of their "critical support"?
>Literally the survival of the human species depends on the u.s. going down, ths seems more important to me than headscarves, but radlibs may disagree
The survival of the human species doesn't depend on your backing reactionary far right theocratic governments on leftypol and trivializing patriarchy and oppression of women in places you've never even visited before. How about let the women of Iran determine for themselves whether headscarves are some trivial detail.
You’re really fucking smart. No wonder why you have so many simps.
im just a schizo who wrote a book.
>>1184778>the ugly ones included
nazbol marx strikes again
how can whites be this disgusting?
So let’s see if I have this correct. These protests just magically pop up right after Iran joins SCO, and nobody finds this suspicious? Nobody thinks there’s anything weird about a content population spontaneously rioting for the sake of a dead criminal? Nobody finds it slightly odd that the criminal in question was a self identified “Kurdistan patriot”, a false nation invented in the 80’s created with the expressed purpose of weakening Syria, Iraq, and Iran to allow for Israeli dominance?
In the past people would have seen through this bullshit easily, this is a more obvious color revolution than the Hong Kong riots. But because people here have an undying fetish for Kurds the American-backed riots are suddenly okay? What happened to this place?
>spontaneously rioting for the sake of a dead criminal?
That's like ther Floyd riots. It's not so much about Floyd himself. That's just a spark igniting a powder keg.
Except the communists rose up against the liberal democratic German puppet government. Like all revolutions, the Russian Revolution was a result of the decadence of the elites becoming too much for the working class to bear. Iran on the other hand is a stable nation with millennia of tradition firmly opposed to American imperialism. The people have literally no reason to protest
Say the line Zigger: Russia (and Iran) are already socialist!
>>1184887>The people have literally no reason to protest
Except, you know, economy in the shitter, and being beaten up for not wearing a piece of clothe.
>>1181488>Are there more secular elements in the current iranian governement that could make this happen, or is it 100% theocratic nutjobs?
Up the Iranian Kurds, I guess.
They have been doing armed struggle since 2005.
>>1184841>a false nation invented in the 80’s
Not even the hardest Arab nationalists believe this about Kurds, you also left out that the biggest guerilla struggle for kurdish liberation is in Turkey, against NATO's second largest army and a neo-Ottoman government controlled by the Muslim Brotherhood
Iran already had 4 major protests in 2021 and 2022.
Ahvaz water protests(armed)
Isfihan water protests
The protests following the metropol disaster
in 2019-2020 the Bloody november tragedy happened where 1500 protesters were killed by the state following the gas price protests. There were also protests in 2017-2018 in Iran.
But yeah bro real sus haha.
PJAK, KODOR, parties affiliated to the Iranian Kurdistan Parties Cooperation Center, the Iranian Communist Party-Kurdistan and a group of parties from East Kurdistan, are calling for a General Strike and Zîlan Vejîn is saying: “The revolt in Iran began after the murder of Amini. This was the last straw for the peoples of Iran. The uprising emerged in the person of a Kurdish woman in particular and women in general. This is a warning that neither Kurdish women nor Iran’s folks accept this system,” …Women's struggle is not a local struggle; it is a global one. This spirit of freedom is not restricted to a border, a district or a city, every woman is experiencing it now. This uprising, carried out under the leadership of women, is a revolt embraced by all Kurdish and Iranian peoples to hold this state, system, politics and its laws accountable. The whole political system will end up in jeopardy with no legitimacy to survive if women revolt against it….
The women's liberation and the democratization of Iran as well as the motto 'jin jiyan azadi' (Women, Life, Freedom) have been inspired by the ideas and philosophy of Kurdish leader Abdullah Öcalan.”<https://anfenglishmobile.com/women/ypj-commander-we-stand-with-women-in-iran-62621
Social Media has been restricted today. This is a very desperate measure. Recent history shows us when social media is cut wells of information are dried up, whuch drives people into the street to find out what is going on. if there is enough public outrage or state apparatus reaction something serious could happen.
>>1184841>“Kurdistan patriot”, a false nation invented in the 80’s created with the expressed purpose of weakening Syria, Iraq, and Iran to allow for Israeli dominance?
Take your meds, Robert Faurisson!
Fact: The ottomans used kurds as cat's paws during The Armeninan Genocide/Seyfo. The angle was that they could have their own country if they just "evacuated" the armenian's.
I thought the meme amongst Russian nationalists was that Lenin was a paid German agent sent to undermine the STRONK tsar?
Yes because he got on a train germany was using when sending back Russian dissidents and migrants and such, a train him and the boys got off to agitate german workers on the stops along the way, pissing off the germans.
>Neither of these are remotely legitimate
<When you're suchhhh a hardcore communist you use weird geopolitical rationalizations to de-legitimize grassroots feminist protests for not being communist enough
Not everything is communist retard. Not everything is a revolution. These are protests. About serious issues the proletariat are facing. Imagine bashing them for not being the next incarnation of the Bolsheviks
Not to mention shilling for what is by far the least defensible aspect of the Iranian government, which are its retarded religious social policies. They have zero redeeming qualities and any serious communist should want secularization.
Lmao I wish Zigger was criticizing them for not being communist enough, he’s criticizing them for being a nuisance to the Iran theocracy and undermining muh anti-america
tfw you read Red Shia Black Shia one too many times
Slavery and serfdom and half the population being treated as legal infants into adulthood were key components of European and East Asian cultures until liberals and socialists came along
the only path to socialism for iranians is if russia and china come out in support of tudeh.
Itt nothing but bad and unconstructive analyses of the situation
Rebumping this as context.
It's not that simple. While no serious communist would deny the tragedy, merely pushing for secularization or whatever from outside can (and does) mean aiding imperialism. The iranians have to walk a ridiculous fine line between protesting and being coopted by foreign powers which deligitmize their grievances.
There are also lots of things going on in Iran already that we don't understand, with regards to women rights especially. So abstain your judgment about it, watch out for color revolution indications and other coopting by western powers, and ABOVE ALL demand the end of sanctions against Iran.
Something I found on mango press:
A great contribution from a subscriber from our discussion channel regarding western communists feeling dragged into 'supporting' NGO regime change attempts that hide behind things like "women's rights" or 'anti extradition bills', anti-authority, ETC, or whatever else is being used as the excuse
The context is of communists being accused of 'not caring' by leftists.
"No one actually said 'it doesn't matter' tho did they? Normal people see a tragic death, whatever the cause, & would like to think 'if that were me or a loved one, I'd like to see it properly investigated & justice done'
The double tragedy when something like this happens in a country which is a target of imperial violence is that, inevitably, justice can never be done
'The way to hell is paved with good intentions' which is to say - your intentions are moot if your 'discourse' is just contributing to the invention of a reality in which open, kinetic, warfare can be deployed against the target country
Communists understand that due to the vicious battle the Islamic Republic of Iran has waged to maintain its sovereignty there are certain backwards aspects of Iranian civil society, it isn't our place to dictate the direction or tempo, but, we know as Iran develops, on a sovereign & independent basis, this backwardness will, in time, be overcome
None of which will ever be possible if the dogs of Empire are given the opportunity to do more than bark"
If the workers can organize a communist party and have a revolution, then they should go for it. Until then, the authorities should brutally suppress any liberal color revolutions that want to turn Iran into a western cumdump and oil outpost (again) and, most importantly, destroy all traces of nuclear research on behalf of Zionist and imperialist interests.
i feel bad for your mom
>rightoids cheering on degenerate globalist libfems to own the muslims
>leftoids cheering on reactionary anticom theocrats to own the rightoids
I hate every single western "person" with a take on these protests.
The authorities will also suppress the communist party
I feel bad for your dad.>>1185196
They always do, lol. You don't think some new brand of conservative right libs won't do the same? Kerensky shut down Pravda and the Bolsheviks got through alright.
Bros please I don't want Iran to become an US puppet state
>>1185188>Communists understand that due to the vicious battle the Islamic Republic of Iran has waged to maintain its sovereignty there are certain backwards aspects of Iranian civil society, it isn't our place to dictate the direction or tempo, but, we know as Iran develops, on a sovereign & independent basis, this backwardness will, in time, be overcome
>None of which will ever be possible if the dogs of Empire are given the opportunity to do more than bark
Thanks. This applies to many countries.
The fact this is your first response to seeing people not wanting to get fucking murdered for not having a piece fo cloth on their head shows how fucked up a worldview you have.
Is removing the piece of cloth (and coincidentally removing Iran's nuclear program and any shred of sovereignty while all oil facilities are placed under Anglo-Zionist control, but let's forget about that) going to change the material conditions of the working class women in Iran at all?
Is posting on leftypol going to change the material conditions of the working class people anywhere in the world?
There is no viable international socialist movement and all leftist discussions are a massive waste of time. This entire debate is just a competition of moralistic bickering.
Removing the institutions that perpetuate state violence against them for that certainly is. For example the material condition of not being fucking murdered.
Where have the protests called for denuclearization?
Any bourgeois state is going to commit violence against them if they're workers. The only difference of a lib government is that the rich ones don't suffer as much.>>1185241
What do you think happens when the """democracy""" movement overthrows the government? They remain sovereign with their own national interests? lmao
A point that is generally missed the fact that Mass politics and even elite politics is drenched with contrarianism. We must remember what happened in the fall of the USSR particularly during shock therapy, there were Russian politicians proudly proclaiming that Russia had no longer national interests and was open for business with America, this was caused by a contrarian position that dissenters had that came from the Soviet State rhetoric of national development and patriotism for soviet socialism. The same is happening in Viatnam, DPRK and LATAM leftist governments. We must understand that contrarianism is an essential part of politics, particularly in this day and age of the internet where entire political forms of thought are discredited through memes. This is of course absurd but very much a present trend
>>1185226>This entire debate is just a competition of moralistic bickering.
This. When I read a post like >>1185188
basically implying that it is okay for the Iranian government to stone women for spooky religious for the time being because the US might foment a color revolution and invade Iran on the ground of human rights or something, I'm thinking: "What can you even do about it if it happens? Do you have a post of command in the US military to stop this? Do you speak Farsi? Have you spread the good word to the Iranian protestors that they should stop protesting, that having a theocratic government is okay because they are somehow protected from US imperialism, and that it is important because their national bourgeoisie has different interests in the world market than US vassal states, which might save us in the end (when, and how)?"
Just watch the events unfold, no need to get your panties in a twist. You are not fucking Lenin, you are not in control of the army, it's real life and not a Paradox game.
Your opinions on geopolitics won't influence the outcome of these protests if you don't speak Farsi or don't have a important rank in some international organisation, it doesn't matter, calm down.
The main reason we are communists is because we believe industrialization and modernization allows humanity to free itself from the shackles of State and social norms, not because they're bad but because they are unnecessary. Tell me anon why is it necessary for these women to wear headscarves and segregate in schools? The industrial and agricultural basis of Iran is sufficient for them to have a nuclear program, yet they can't afford this? Is it chauvinism to believe that immaterial reasons for policies and institutions is inefficient and potentially a source of discontent because of such Immateriality?
They have been protesting since 2017. If they have no reason to protest, and everything is perfect in Iran as you internet "anti-imperialists" pretend it is, why are they doing it? It's so easy to have little edgy opinions like this in the comfiness of your gamer chair, it's another thing to struggle against cops during 5 years.
10x hotter than Burger women
I'm certain you have the impeccable political position of all time that we have never heard of
>>1185244>What do you think happens when the """democracy""" movement overthrows the government? They remain sovereign with their own national interests? lmao
That's not something we can know until it happens, so treating it with certainty in either direction makes no sense. The CIA's preferred men in Iran are MEK, who haven't had a social basis in Iran since they backed Saddam in the war.
Published on February 14, 2022
Center for International Private Enterprise (CIPE)
Businesswomen Leading the Path to Change
Wow they try to bolster unions and worker organizations, that means you must be against that if you're a true communist.
>>1185292>unions>worker organizations >Center for International Private Enterprise (CIPE)
This is literally a major happening. What else are we supposed to be discussing about? Whether or not the air is invisible today?
Since you didn't bother to read the fucking document:>Building Capacities of Labor Activists>$70000>To strengthen independent labor unions and to enhance workers’ knowledge of and advocacy for their legal rights. The organization will design and implement a training program to help workers understand labor laws and collectively advocate for their rights. The organization will create an online platform to provide information and resources for workers and will develop a strategy to advocate with international human rights and labor organizations to promote labor rights.
Obviously they do that to create contacts and assets they can use to gather intelligence and eventually influence policy. But a rope is a rope and it's even better when they are paying for it.
>>1185248>A point that is generally missed the fact that Mass politics and even elite politics is drenched with contrarianism
What does this mean for the protests? If contrarianism is a part of today's politics then it stands to reason that these protests and riots can led to a socialist revolt. The Islamists who control Iran right now killed and exiled many communists and left wingers, and some of the opposition groups on the street are communist.
Tho tbh i don't think much will come out of these protests. Most of the anger will be channeled into reformist candidates who will tamp down on some of the morality police's power. Some will join radical orgs both left wing or right.
I want change but not the change that turns Iran into an US puppet state
>>1185244>What do you think happens when the """democracy""" movement overthrows the government?
Oh shit, what are next weeks loteray numbers, anon?
Literally the only way that the protestors cant be coopted is if they have socialist leadership and that leadership then gains china and russia's blessing for a peaceful transition of power.
>>1185313>What does this mean for the protests?
It means that, just like any other protest anywhere, it is vulnerable to opportunists seeking catharsis.>If contrarianism is a part of today's politics then it stands to reason that these protests and riots can led to a socialist revolt.
Yeah, it could lead anywhere
That's a bit too optimistic anon. This should be seen as a tragedy for us communists, not an opportunity for progress
The government blocked the signal app but people are setting up proxies to go around. https://signal.org/blog/run-a-proxy/
What makes you think Russia and China would be sympathetic towards any emerging socialist government, not just in Iran but anywhere else in the world? They too have their deals and interests with porkies of many countries and I doubt they’ll be too happy about commies coming and ruining them.
It doesn't even say witch groups this money is going to. This can easily be a gerft were someone is just pocketing the money and acting as if they're building the infrastructure.
Do they have socialist leadership?
>When the lights are off, what really is the difference between a ML and a Nazi?
Not much since they both exist in the real world and have organized proles unlike you or your convenience store ideology
On a more serious note, that anon is a retard but this comment of yours almost vindicated what was posted by him. Geopolitics is complicated and it crushes the masses like a motherfucker but it is what it is. Iran must change but you must acknowledge that change is a moment of vulnerability that will be exploited
of course they do. the tudeh party is in charge of the iranian protests, and leftypol is in charge of tudeh.
From what I hear the "Islamic theocracy" part of Iran's government is little more than window dressing at this point. True they still have a lot of social conservative laws, like criminalizing homosexuality and requiring women to wear headscarves. But it's the secular democratic institutions that hold most of the power in Iranian politics. Those "Islamic clerics" you hear about every now and then are just glorified bureaucrats. It's possible once the West stops breathing down their necks they could end up eventually drop the pretenses and up something akin to Syria.
The moment a genuine communist movement or even worker oriented mass protest start to take hold in Iran, it will be not American tanks but rather Russian and Chinese ones rolling in in order to “secure the stability and prosperity of the region” (Ok maybe Russian ones not so much because they’re already kinda busy with their on bs atm)
We already saw a preview of that happening in Kazakhstan.
They don't do that
Yeah they prefer to fund reactionary governments against revolutionaries, like they did in Nicaragua with the Contras or in Afghanistan with the Mujahadeen or in Philippines with Marcos or in Nepal with the monarchy, etc, etc.
>>1185358>Iran is based because they won't submit to US hegemony>Iran is only culturally conservative because the US is forcing them to be
Pick one, leftypol
Fucking absurd. Meanwhile the capitalist institution is funded twice as much.
Look at the AFL-CIO? They’re a product of the CIA trying to corner the American left. Look how shitty they are at labor rights. My mom used to be a member of them and she remembers how much they screwed over her flight attendants’ Union.
>>1183533>I thought imperialized people would care the most about historical accuracy, anon? Is there something about it that could make them look bad?
Only the history that makes them look good.
China did it with the Taliban. Why not try it with a new hypothetical socialist Iran?
Why isn't t funding leftists in Iranor the region currently? Do you have even one reason to believe this is ever going to happen?
Of course you don't…
Did nobody really never tell you that children should be seen and nor heard?
Your mum was a sexy flight attendant. Nice.
our mum was in the mile-high club.
a mile high up on my nob.
>>1185428>Did nobody really never tell you that children should be seen and nor heard?
That's how things go to shit.
Unchecked adult immaturity running rampant bcuz "I'm an adult, I do what I want".
Just because you're an adult doesn't make a God. That's the problem with postmodern adults.
ANGLOID GET OUT
Yes, we must let every anti-American country in the world be overthrown to see whether the rebels were backed by the CIA.
Sorry, but that time is over. America can't coup countries anymore, and the only countries left to fuck with are nuclear powers. War Plan C is reaching its end.
Boy that sure is a nice looking Germany you've got there
Would be a real shame if someone were to enact some kind of mighty struggle to destroy you guys
Almost like a Great Trial if you will
I haven't seen any smoking gun evidence the NED are the main driving force behind the protests, sorry, I still think it's too early to judge, and I will have to do so retroactively. Let's keep in mind the US doesn't have the same capacity for toppling whoever that it did in the 50s, 60s, and 70s, Bolivia fought off the coup regime in a year and Venezuela, Syria, never fell. My impression is that if there's anything Iranians hate more than the Islamic Republican system it's the Saudis, Israelis, and Americans with their geopolitical aims.
Are these images of Iran in the 60s as this "free loving" live and let live country just cherry picked images or did it really make a radical transition to a theocratic state at all levels?
The shah imported western fashion and tried to get Fire Worship trendy again. The revolution was Islamic because the Mosques were some of the only places you could talk freely without the secret police breathing down your neck.
Women are among the most exploited group of the proletariat, almost all of their labor is unpaid. Especially in poorer nations. When women protest en masse it shakes the institutions stronger because their greater share of labor burden means more is missing when they stop.
If your points mattered and the Iranian government is even remotely capable they would simply liberalize on women's rights, end police brutality, and move on. Maybe if they didn't give so many reasons to critique them you wouldn't even need to come here and say "critiquing them leaves inlets for imperialism!"
>>1185190>Women must wear cloth or else the Iranian government is going to fall to a color revolution
The absolute state of "communists" coping with the reality of oppressive bourgeois theocracies
That's for the women of Iran to decide, and they are protesting right now so I think it's clear how they feel
>>1185578>>1185578>Maybe if they didn't give so many reasons to critique them you wouldn't even need to come here and say "critiquing them leaves inlets for imperialism!"
Why do you think you made point here? The situation is fucked. Iranians are aware of this too. Simplifying this to "lol just liberalize bro" completely glosses over the reality of the situation, and is a common western imperialist tactic. Nah brah, the situation is never that simple.
Of course Iran faces a lot of problems, lots being linked to US actions.
However, being autistic about the way to put headscarves is a really stupid hill for the Iranian state to die on.
>>1185633>Why do you think you made point here? The situation is fucked. Iranians are aware of this too. Simplifying this to "lol just liberalize bro" completely glosses over the reality of the situation, and is a common western imperialist tactic. Nah brah, the situation is never that simple.
Liberalize is a really big word. Are you talking about economically? Because I never once advocated that. Socially? Yes, it if moves past medieval tier infantilization of women and forced dress policy on threat of murder by police. Why wouldn't you support that? It's wholly progressive
I am entirely in agreement with you on that. There is also the point that these morality laws have a class dimension as well. I've talked with some Iranian friends, and thats the impression I get. Namely that having money means you can basically sidestep all the morality laws. Alcohol at your wedding is 0 problem, drugs, etc. And I'm not even talking about big bourgeoisie, just upper middle class shit.
The only thing to do now is to observe. It's too early to make a proper determination about this. We aren't there. We don't know what's actually going on, and this could quickly be coopted by western influences.
Also the iranian government has been slowly moving to introduce (very basic) rights for women. And apparently an Imam was stabbed. Let's wait before saying anything. Unfortunately we have an influx of retards due to the Russian conscription. extra retarded opinions are to be expected.
Again, you simplify this too much. Of course everyone supports women rights. That doesn't mean the protests will achieve that, nor does it mean that they aren't influenced by the US, nor does it mean that they are to be supported automatically. It's too early to tell.
Wait till you find out that the clerics were also behind the coup to get the Shah in power
If you wait for something to have a certain outcome you won't support any revolution or progressive movement until it's well over. Most of those which went trough were long shots with bad odds. But you can be a tailer if that's your thing.
>>1185807>If you wait for something to have a certain outcome you won't support any revolution or progressive movement until it's well over.
And? We can only ever see things clearly in hindsight, leaps of faith might be necessary but they can land you in horrible places
What exactly is stopping Iran from secularizing? The article you posted says>we know as Iran develops, on a sovereign & independent basis, this backwardness will, in time, be overcome
Are we not seeing the process of this backwardness being overcome? What else would this look like if not people pressuring their government to put an end to backwards policies?
Yes, because people dont have a natural inclination towards agency and it's all the CIA.
Brown people are meek insectoid automatons who only rise up when westoids manipulate them, only white westerners are capable of acting in their individual or class interests
We're not there. If you're Iranian or living in Iran, then the story is very different. If you have Iranian comrades you trust and are in contact with, then the story is different. Otherwise, take it easy, don't jump to conclusions.>>1186118>What exactly is stopping Iran from secularizing?
My guess, Religious brainworms and political motivations (power plays) that are not immediately obvious. Before libs seethe, I don't support this. Just stating what I think is the situation for the political class. >Are we not seeing the process of this backwardness being overcome?
Yes, this protest is just one moment in the process that was already underway, but Iran doesn't exist in a vaccum.
>>1184887>German puppet government
who was it that ceded swathes of land to the germans again? lol
This is the exact language I heard both during the coup in Bolivia and the attempted coup in Venezuela from internet glows trying to claim it was just a movement for democracy.
And, yes, it's a completely asinine statement, and not one you see for anything in the West itself. There's plenty of speculation that goes around about if a movement or even was orchestrated by a foreign power or is an astroturf or false flag in the United States and of all the rhetoric you see around this, you never see this asinine "you're denying Americans their agency as a people". Was the American election "hacked" by Russia? Was the Tea Party Movement just an astroturf movement funded and orchestrated by the Koch brothers? On the flip side, are BLM protests and antifa counter-protests being funded or orchestrated by the DNC, George Soros or anything like that? The one thing you're not gonna see, ever, is some dumbass walk in and say "Um, sweaty, you're dEnYiNg AmErIcAnS tHeIr AgEnCy As A pEoPlE."
You only see this rhetoric when there some sudden protest in an enemy nation of the United States and there's any question as to its legitimacy, it happens regardless of how disparate these nations and protests are from each other (why am I seeing the exact same rhetoric being used for Bolivia, Belarus, Hong Kong and now Iran?), the only commonality being that they're enemies and rivals of the United States and it glows brighter than the Sun.
>>1186176>This is the exact language I heard both during the coup in Bolivia and the attempted coup in Venezuela
no it wasn't, stop lying retard those were obvious fascist US backed coups
I have a Iranian friend who's been in exile because he's on deathrow over there for subversive activities actually, so yeah I'd like to see a government which puts communists to death or let them rot isolated in white rooms go away.
>>1186140>Rick, what should I post next?>*chortles imperialsitically* use the racism card, that will get uyghurs to hate communism
I'M AN ALABAMA UYGHUR AND I WANNA BE FREE TO HELL WITH THE N DOUBLE-A CP *dabs*
Yes, this is exactly what people were saying when people pointed out that the coup in Bolivia was, in fact, a coup.
There were also big protests out in the street so every glowbot was saying "tHeY'rE jUsT rEsPoNdInG tO tHe DeMoCrAtIc DeMaNdS oF tHe BoLiViAn PeOpLe, StOp DeNyInG tHe AgEnCy Of BoLiViA, nOt EvErYtHiNg Is tHe CIA, BoLiViAnS wAnT dEmOcRaCy NoT a DiCtAtOr"
I think you're overreacting a bit. It is true that liberals trot put their line about "human agency", it obscures the most fundamental question about the protests, what is the class basis for them? We are communists and this is the first question ww ask ourselves to begin any analysis. Hong Kong and Venezuela are firmly reactionary because they're led by petite bourgiosie members who want to keep their parasitic role in imperialism or want to reverse all the gains by the proletariat. Iran I'd much harder to easily analyze because if you skip crucial aspects of the analysis, you'll just be repeating the state department and not the proletarian line (same thing happened in Syria).
Thanks? Johnny Rebel can get skinned alive for all I care.
Also weren't there a lot of protests last year that got ignored by the media? Why is that? What have Iranian comrades learned from the precious experience?
An autistic clock is right 3 times a day.
>>1186176>re BLM protests and antifa counter-protests being funded or orchestrated by the DNC, George Soros or anything like that?
If you believe that then yes, you are in fact denying the agency of the whole burger race.
please fuck off back to /pol/.
I'm sorry for the situation your friend is in but that doesn't change much, or anything at all really. Assuming this is a color revolution, should it be supported because your friend is on deathrow? Surely not.
Glow and unipolarity pilled 😡😡😡
>>1186176>The one thing you're not gonna see, ever, is some dumbass walk in and say "Um, sweaty, you're dEnYiNg AmErIcAnS tHeIr AgEnCy As A pEoPlE."
I’ve seen plenty of people on this very same board legit believing that the Floyd protests were all a ploy to get Biden elected
please post with parental advisory>>1186241
this video is clearly made by cia.
Hm yes. I think I will wait 2-4 weeks to see how this shakes out, then pretend I had the correct opinion all along!
I don't know anything about these protests other than the fact that the vocal supporters kind of glow. That doesn't mean much at the moment, but it makes me wary of these protests. If this was a genuine revolutionary moment, you'd expect the West and America especially to talk about it as though it's "extremists" and "hardliners" trying to take over the government.
>>1186326>If this was a genuine revolutionary moment, you'd expect the West and America especially to talk about it as though it's "extremists" and "hardliners" trying to take over the government
Literally the first thing the bourgeoise media does in response to workers action is to ignore it, which is why literally noone including the autistic retarded dregs on this site talk about the 100k iranian oil workers who have been on strike for over a year
If the MSM is reporting on it now that means glowies are acting on it or they are about to. There is zero chance that burgerstan will not try to take advantage no matter how honest these protests started off as.
The Iranian oil worker strike appears to be completely unrelated to this.
It should be otherwise this is all tragic nonsense
I'm talking about struggles in Iran in general and the fact that this site is so detached from reality that they couldn't find the working class if they tried and instead just talk about bullshit like multi polarity cause they were a loser in highschool
>>1185255>You are not fucking Lenin, you are not in control of the army, it's real life and not a Paradox game
Yeah, but I can pretend to be Lenin and have fun with that
/leftypol/ when Western people protest against their corrupt government:>wow based and redpilled Yellow Vests, the fire rises!!
/leftypol/ when Oriental people protest against their corrupt government:>NOOOOO YOU CAN'T PROTEST AGAINST A THEOCRACY!! YOU ARE BEING MANIPULATED BY THE CIA TO SERVE IMPERIALISM!! JUST WAIT UNTIL THE USA CRUMBLES IN 50 YEARS AND THEN YOU CAN REBEL AGAINST YOUR GOVERNMENT!!
I hope you anons realize it's a tad Western-centric to think that way.>>1186333
Trips of truth.
Iranian society is not as stable as some have proclaimed here, and it's not just women's rights.>>1186347
Now this is the main problem that hasn't been addressed: How do you transform basic anti-government protests into a class struggle movement? How can class struggle arise from wild protests due to people being fed up about everything in general? It was a problem during the Yellow Vests movement, and it was also a problem in Sri Lanka from what I've heard a month or two ago.
It's all connected, those protests are not only for women, like floyd ones were not only for black people like the yellow vests were not only about gas prices. It's more general discontent from proles that finally materializes trough rioting and proto insurrectionary action. Since those movements occupy a lot of public space and take a lot of energy to manage from the ruling class you have all sorts of bourgeois and petty bourgeois elements trying to pull the blanket. This makes vulgar anti imperialist autist's brain hurt and scrambling for conspiracy theories because they don't get how a movement could be somewhat inter class.
😔Can't believe the US would stage a color revolution in Iran
Holy fuck in America that cop would be armed and just fire at anyone who provoked him. What is up with Iran??
Yes a lot of westerners here have a: for me, not for the' attitude. I am sad you are just learning this, the world is going to be just a little darker for you now anon. q.q
Remember a few years ago when cops in Iran were literally firing into crowds with aks
>>1186385>Not us, it was liberals
So then, the point is moot, because I don't believe the lies of neolibs who refuse to face the problems there are actively causing.
>there was absolutely none of this glow rhetoric like "You're denying agency to the French people!"
There was none of it, that's exactly my point, because anons here who are defending the Islamic government doesn't seem to realize that some Iranians might hate their government as much as the Yellow Vests did.
According to them, Western people can revolt against their government, but not the Iranians, otherwise they will automatically become the puppets of Americans.
In the mind of the neo-anti-imperialist shitposter, there are only two choices: Iranians are either stuck with a theocracy or they become American puppets. There is no way Iranians could choose another path to something more socially progressive AND socialist, it's simply impossible, because America controls everything.
I think it's pretty ironic that self-proclaimed anti-imperialist people think this way.
According to the theory, the salvation is supposed to come from the low-GDP countries because the "labor aristocracy" of the high-GDP countries is too complacent with the capitalist class, yet the low/mid-GDP countries aren't supposed to revolt until the USA crumbles, otherwise they would be manipulated by imperialists.
Do you realize how doomer it is? There is basically no way out of capitalism until the next century. Fuck off with that bullshit. If Iranian, Chinese and Russian workers revolt against their governments, they are right to do so because they are subject to the law of value like all of us.>>1186384
Fuck off back to twitter, Phil Greaves
>>1186381>How do you transform basic anti-government protests into a class struggle movement?
That's what a communist party is for
>>1186351>NOOOO WHY DON'T YOU IMMEDIATELY KNOW EVERYTHING THERE IS TO KNOW ABOUT IRAN AND SUPPORT OR CONDEMN THIS PROTESTS!!!
Bitch, you're being told that many people refuse to take a position because they admit their ignorance. You have serious issues if you expected otherwise.
And what do you do when the communist parties either are banned (like in Iran) or irrelevant (like in many places of world presently)?
Sorry for making the mistake of assuming a so called "communist" site would be concerned with the working class
Proper communist parties are always banned, radical orgs usually follow the working class itself becoming increasingly militant. A communist party just give a organisational brain to this burgeoning movement. It's not something that can really be forced
>>1186381>/leftypol/ when Western people protest against their corrupt government:>>wow based and redpilled Yellow Vests, the fire rises!!
Imperial core people protesting and wrecking havoc against their governments is VERY RARELY not based or based but retarded. Weird self-own.
Peripheral protests are a very complicated matter for many reasons, here are some:>NGO meddling>we might not speak the language >communists are usually extinct in these countries>all foreign media reporting is done by big western media organizations. Usually having a clear western bias or outright lying. >historical context is important and its impossible to know the history of 200+ nations. Also the history of a nation is a political subject and it is hard to ascertain the bias of a historical interpretation, especially in not the native language and by foreign historians. >current events are also important, same issue as above.>internal politics are very complicated and usually are opportunistic about these things, even if they aren't directly responsible for them.
I don't know why you expect everyone to know exactly whats going on and choose your side. It's a ridiculous demand. There is nothing to do but observe what's going on and try to analyze what we see.
Concern troll, please fuck off. We are not concerned with the working class in itself you dipshit. We are concerned with the emancipation and eventual abolition of the working class. Idolatry of the working class is liberal ideology FYI. If """the working class""" wants fascism, well they can fuck right off.
You didn't even address my points and you managed to embarrass yourself again.
Motherfucker you're talking about analysing conflicts while saying the most vague shit imaginable
Except people very clearly have been using that rhetoric, even in this very thread.>you are hyperfixating
I'm not hyperfixating. I'm noticing a bizarre trend of the exact same rhetoric and talking points being used for areas as disparate and far-flung as Hong Kong, Bolivia, Belarus, Cuba, Venezuela, etc. The most noticeable and obnoxious of which is shit about denying a nation's agency. How do you come up with the exact same dumbass, asinine point, worded in the exact same terms if you're two people from countries across the fucking globe from each other?
>>1186441>We are not concerned with the working class in itself you dipshit.
Then fuck off and hang yourself>We are concerned with the emancipation and eventual abolition of the working class.
Thats brought about by proletarian revolution which is propelled by the working class>Idolatry of the working class is liberal ideology FYI.
Are you retarded? I literally just said that noone here actually looks at the working class and their actions and you think this is idolisation? Stop swinging at windmills bitch>You didn't even address my points and you managed to embarrass yourself again.
Your point was that you're too lazy and retarded to make any research into the topic you're talking about and you want people to adjust for this, go back to learning your ABCs you child
Because I'm addressing the demands of automatically backing any protest in a country that's an enemy of the USA without any information. I'm not addressing this specific instance of protests. Every time there's protests in enemy territory on the news, "leftists" demand that communists support them and get angry, accusing us of ignoring the (many times real) grievances of the working class. Just in recent memory, it happened with Venezuela, Bolivia, Cuba, Belarus, Russia, every month it happens with the latest outrage with China.
I am not being vague. I am telling you very precisely that your demands are ridiculous.
>>1186449>Except people very clearly have been using that rhetoric, even in this very thread.
What people uygha? where? It's you that's obsessively talking about it.
You keep flp flopping between it being about actual real peoples agency and some spooky 'national agency' pick one and stick with it, these are very different things.
>>1186468>Because I'm addressing the demands of automatically backing any protest in a country that's an enemy of the USA without any information
Is the state using police violence to main and kill the working class not a good enough motivator? >get angry, accusing us of ignoring the (many times real) grievances of the working class
Because you do, you talk about carefully analysing conflicts yet you yourself haven't done so at all>I am not being vague.
Literally every point you gave was vague
There is actual evidence for the later though. The CIA + NED DOES indeed fund these movements. Where is the foreign interference in the US? A couple of Russian trolls? Pathetic.
It's actually CIA bank accounts in Cyprus that supply the payroll for the morality police
>>1186481>Is the state using police violence to main and kill the working class not a good enough motivator?
Again you idealize the working class as a holy monolith. The working class doing things or being killed does not automatically merit support. I'm sorry but I'm a communist, not a bleeding heart liberal. >>1186454>Are you retarded? I literally just said that noone here actually looks at the working class and their actions and you think this is idolisation? Stop swinging at windmills bitch
Kek. Pure ideology. The working class is not for itself all the time. You say this as if it automatically means something. Well it doesn't, sorry. I don't make the rules. >>1186466>Holy shit you are braindead and frankly just outed yourself as an turbo idiot who knows nothing about what they are talking about.
Basic marxist analysis friend. Not even that complicated. Feel free to ask for help and maybe I can explain it to you since you don't seem to have it nailed down yet. >>1186481>you talk about carefully analysing conflicts yet you yourself haven't done so at all
Ok, I'll do it on the next post.
>>1186481>Is the state using police violence to main and kill the working class not a good enough motivator?
No it is not. The very fact you're asking this show the level of idealism you're on. Sometimes bloodshed is the price of stability, in other words, the best way to prevent even more bloodshed and suffering as a result of total state collapse.
Kill yourself uyghur.
>>1186489>Again you idealize the working class as a holy monolith.
If pointing out that the bourgeoisie slaughter the proletariat for the sake of capital is religious idolisation then I guess Marx was Muhammad>The working class doing things or being killed does not automatically merit support.
The working class fighting against the state doesn't merit support?>I'm sorry but I'm a communist, not a bleeding heart liberal.
You're not a communist you're a retard>Kek. Pure ideology.
Ugh>The working class is not for itself all the time.
It literally is, the fact that they are propertyless wage labourers who rely solely on the markets demand for their labour brings them into constant conflict with capital>>1186490>No it is not
Faggot>The very fact you're asking this show the level of idealism you're on.
That's not what idealism is, stop using words you don't understand and stop being a liberal bitch>Sometimes bloodshed is the price of stability
For who? For the bourgeoisie? If you're pearl clutching for the Iranian bourgeoisie the go hang yourself retard, or better yet fly to Tehran and come out of the closet so the cops can do it for you>in other words, the best way to prevent even more bloodshed and suffering as a result of total state collapse.
Go fly to the oil fields of Iran right now and tell the striking oil workers or tell the people who are getting shot by cops that they should stop being so unruly cause it might threaten the states geopolitical position
Find a shotgun and suck on barrel you fucking liberal
>>1186481>you talk about carefully analysing conflicts yet you yourself haven't done so at all
So I'll fast forward the bits that should be obvious to all.>Iran has been besieged and is constantly attacked by the US/NATO/Israel via different means including sabotage. >it seems the lady that died, died spontaneously due possibly because of a terminal brain tumor. Video shows no wrong doing. >most of the people on the street rioting are men. The idea that women are primarily the ones leading the struggle seem to be unfounded on all footage I've seen. >citizens, imams, and sanitation workers have been attacked or brutally murdered by rioters. >American weapons have been confiscated among the rioters. >allegedly isis members have been arrested at riots>large anti-color Revolution / counter protests have been seen and have been largely unreported>mosques have been burned to the ground>terrorist-like behavior of rioters includes cutting off heads, burning, acid throwing, etc. >people on motorcycles have been filmed giving instructions to rioters (like in other western backed protests)>many many weapons found among the rioters.
This is not to say these are western back, but from what it seems like, these aren't all "fed up women with the regressive regime" or as simple as "the monolith known as a the Holy Working Class is protesting with a single voice against the hijab mandate".
Your turn, bitch.
I'll say it again, because evidently you don't get it.The working class is not a monolith.
AndThe working class does not always struggle for itself. It is always struggling in itself, but not necessarily for its abolition.
Remember that fascism was also a "working class" movement, as well as democrat and republican liberalism, for example. Explain how the working class voting against its interest is "being in conflict with capital". Hint, you can't.
>>1186507>Iran has been besieged and is constantly attacked by the US/NATO/Israel via different means including sabotage.
Why the fuck would I care about the Iranian bourgeoisie's geopolitical position? >it seems the lady that died, died spontaneously due possibly because of a terminal brain tumor. Video shows no wrong doing.
Guess that makes the state gunning people down in the street, cutting communication and sending in the military ok
Imagine being this much of a pussy bitch fuck for Iran, genuinely hang yourself>most of the people on the street rioting are men. The idea that women are primarily the ones leading the struggle seem to be unfounded on all footage I've seen.
I wonder why that's happening, it's almost as if people I general are just completely sick of the state shitting on them>citizens, imams, and sanitation workers have been attacked or brutally murdered by rioters.
I don't give a fuck, don't pearl clutch about bloodshed while also being on the side of the bourgeoisie that guns down it's working class>American weapons have been confiscated among the rioters.
I can't believe the mossad gave Uzi's to the Rollin 20s crips>allegedly isis members have been arrested at riots
And? >large anti-color Revolution / counter protests have been seen and have been largely unreported
Report them then, this is what I mean by not being vague>mosques have been burned to the ground
Good>people on motorcycles have been filmed giving instructions to rioters (like in other western backed protests)
Everyone knows only the cool kids in the CIA are allowed to ride bikes>many many weapons found among the rioters.
Good I hope they use them>This is not to say these are western back, but from what it seems like, these aren't all "fed up women with the regressive regime"
Because it's not, it's a outburst of general discontent>>1186516>Remember that fascism was also a "working class" movement
It literally isn't, fascism fundamentally is not a working class movement and it biggest enemy was the militant working class, the biggest support base for fascism and the Blackshirts and the brownshirts was overwhelmingly the middle class. Why don't you go actually find out what fascism is and how it came about before you pretend to know what the fuck you're talking about your fucking idiot
>>1186525>Why the fuck would I care about the Iranian bourgeoisie's geopolitical position?
Because is relevant to the analysis, retard.>Guess that makes the state gunning people down in the street, cutting communication and sending in the military ok
I'm stating facts. Its your choice to be offended by them. >Imagine being this much of a pussy bitch fuck for Iran, genuinely hang yourself
Meds. >I don't give a fuck, don't pearl clutch about bloodshed while also being on the side of the bourgeoisie that guns down it's working class
Again stating facts. This could be indicative of infiltration and cooption of the protests. Maybe don't cry about it and actually analyze the news from all sides before making up your mind
, as I've been saying you fucking retard. >the biggest support base for fascism and the Blackshirts and the brownshirts was overwhelmingly the middle class>middle class is not working class
And you tell me to read more. Go fuck yourself.
>>1186536>Because is relevant to the analysis, retard.
It's not relevant to any communist analysis, typical of a liberal faggot like you>I'm stating facts. Its your choice to be offended by them.
I'm not offended by them, I'm indifferent to them because they're the concerns of the bourgeoisie>Meds
Read Marx and go get a job>This could be indicative of infiltration and cooption of the protests.
Violence in a protest indicated infiltration? Are you genuinely retarded?>Maybe don't cry about it and actually analyze the news from all sides before making up your mind, as I've been saying you fucking retard.
You're literally pearl clutching about the Iranian state possibly being in a weaker geopolitical position and you literally haven't posted any news links for any of your shit so take your own advice faggot>middle class is not working class
Because it's not your fucking idiot, go read literally anything by Marx and then come back to pretending you know what the fuck you're talking about
Genuinely feels like I'm talking to a disabled child, go back to school youngling
>>1186543>The concerns of the bourgeoisie are irrelevant >I'm a marxist >middle class is not working class, Marx said so>feminist protest against hiiabs being mostly if not exclusively led by men, incredibly violent, isis members, guns, terrorist MO (beheadings, attacking random civilians), are not indicators of an infiltrated protest.
Did I miss anything?
>>1186437>Imperial core people protesting and wrecking havoc against their governments is VERY RARELY not based or based but retarded. Weird self-own.
I don't see it as a self-own, just as a way to highlight this discrepancy between how protests are seen on /leftypol/ when it's an imperial core country who does it vs. the periphery.
Moreover, not all of the Yellow Vests were based: quite a few of them were Le Pen vooters if not worse, I once saw a proud lolbert with a snake flag protesting, and some people held very naive beliefs regarding democracy while rejecting class struggle and so on. It was never a clear-cut purely proletarian movement.
Sure, NGOs should be viewed with suspicion, but I think some Iranian people are able to see past the false dichotomy: "if we are against our government, therefore we should welcome every American thing under the sun", or at least I hope so (otherwise there is no hope).
>we might not speak the language
This has been my argument for years to why it's a fucking waste of time to act like providing your critical support on the internet to reactionary governments like the Iranian theocracy is a big deal, because your critical support is worth jack shit if you don't speak the language of the protesters, and therefore you are mostly preaching to pampered first-worlders.
>communists are usually extinct in these countries
As if a theocratic government banning communist parties is a better opportunity to grow the communist movement than whatever these protesters have in mind.
>all foreign media reporting is done by big western media organizations. Usually having a clear western bias or outright lying.
Sure, but let's not pretend a media like RT doesn't have an agenda too.
While they give a different account of the events, which is valuable, the Russian bourgeoisie still have their own interests, and the Russian state is a bourgeois state.
>historical context is important and its impossible to know the history of 200+ nations. Also the history of a nation is a political subject and it is hard to ascertain the bias of a historical interpretation, especially in not the native language and by foreign historians.
Then shut the fuck up if you feel like you don't understand the culture enough to have an opinion; or writing some explanatory posts to give us more context on Iranian society, it would be very interesting.
It is certainly not what the average anti-imperialist /leftypol/tard is doing.
>I don't know why you expect everyone to know exactly whats going on and choose your side. It's a ridiculous demand
Yet it's what a significant part of the /leftypol/ userbase has been doing each time there are some protests in non-US aligned countries like Iran, Belarus or China.
>There is nothing to do but observe what's going on and try to analyze what we see.
I totally agree.
However, let's just be clear: if some people protest against their non-US aligned government, it doesn't mean that they are automatically on the CIA payroll. That was my point.
this whole fucking thread lmao.
is it anglo brained to think that people have no will or agency beyond what the CIA wishes?
There's a funny syncretic fusion of what sounds like a Western white girl going "oh my gaawwd" with a Middle East female vocal chant so it goes "oh my gaawdeeeeeeeeeee"
>>1186516>emember that fascism was also a "working class" movement,
no it wasn't> as well as democrat and republican liberalism, for example
no it wasn't.
go and neck yourself you lying little shit.
>>1186556>>middle class is not working class, Marx said so
Just for the sake of argument if the middle class and the working class are one and the same then why would there be a distinction between them in the first place?>feminist protest against hiiabs being mostly if not exclusively led by men
Wait till you find out the ethnicity make up of the George Floyd riots>incredibly violent
I can't believe they found a Isis member in a middle Eastern country>guns
Good I hope they get ahold of tanks>terrorist MO
What does that even mean? Literally just talking like a fed>beheadings, attacking random civilians
I don't give a fuck>Did I miss anything?
Yeah you missed a whole lot in you're whole life retard
Here's a radlib response to this mess that is better than most. Tl'dr police brutality bad, Social conservativism bad, conditions were worsened by sanctions (last 5 mins)
You can't make me watch hasan
You're clearly on some Toni Negri-tier type of workerism. Stop with this shit.
The working class rage without a guiding party will never amount to anything meaningful, and indeed there's the risk of people being manipulated by porky against other Porkies.
Btw this is also basic Marxism, the difference between class in itself and for itself.
There's a funny syncretic fusion of what sounds like an American white girl going "oh my gaawwd" with a Middle East female vocal chant so it goes "oh my gaawdeeeeeeeeeee"
>>1186580>You're clearly on some Toni Negri-tier type of workerism
I don't know who the fuck that is but what about this is "workerism"? Literally just saying that the working class should fuck the bourgeoisie>The working class rage without a guiding party will never amount to anything meaningful
So? Does that mean just shilling for the bourgeoisie?>Btw this is also basic Marxism, the difference between class in itself and for itself.
What the fuck are you talking about?
>>1186507>people on motorcycles have been filmed giving instructions to rioters (like in other western backed protests)<what are undercover cops?<what are agent provocateurs?
Not really surprised to see that /leftypol/ doesn't know how protests work.
>>1186580>amount to anything meaningful
What do we mean by "meaningful"? If socialism than yeah, I agree with you: there needs to be some party directing towards that. But a bourgeoisie democracy is a possibility and seems like an improvement over a theocracy.
>>1186573>Just for the sake of argument if apples and fruits are one and the same then why would there be a distinction between them in the first place?
Good point, I'll have to check what marx said about it. I don't know why you cite marx, tbh. There's nothing in Marx to support your take, but whatever, it's still a very silly point.>>1186598
Provocateurs exist to escalate protests, but these are already incredibly violent. What is the point of provocateurs? You say it so confidently. I'm suggesting it is non-spontenous organization, possibly western backed, possibly isis.
wiggers in this thread are triggered because a supposedly anti-american nation is burning.
all i wish for the brutal islamic dictatorship is to burn. this is revenge for 1988, 1999, 2011 and the bloody november.
Christ you're retarded
Can’t wait for the time one of these is legit a socialist revolution, but the media haven’t clocked that, and, because it’s in Iran, Syria, whatever, they support it and, because of this, everyone on leftypol doesn’t support it
Feel free to point out any inaccuracies on either account.
My first point is basic marxism. The second point is speculation on the same level as the parent post.
>>1186625>What is the point of provocateurs?
Misdirecting violence during the heat of the protest, in way that make it easier to frame the violence of protesters in a bad way later in the media. Sometimes cops don't bother and do the violence against property or individuals themselves.
Also undercover cops track people during protests, but they still need to communicate to their hierarchy, and sometimes it happens that you see someone dressed exactly like a black bloc member behind a police car. Undercover cops and agent provocateurs aren't very uncommon during serious protests.
Open to the possibility, but you can't dismiss it is possibly organized opposition.
Sage. It's one or two loud retards. Stop being hysterical, mate.
>>1186650>but you can't dismiss it is possibly organized opposition.
Is this the culmination of your pint now?
I mentioned the motorcycles, you said it was provocateurs. I mention it is unlikely due to the highly violent nature of the protests already. Then you explained what provocateurs were for, misinterpreting and responding to a rhetorical question I made regarding the utility of provocatuers in the specific situation at hand, namely the highly violent protests. Then I reiterated my proposition. After which you erronously concluded that I either changed or culminated my point to that.
It is not "now" the culmination of my point. It was always my point. Not sure what your point or your intent here is. It is clearly not in good faith.
Anon who told you about why sus people on motorcycles could be undercover cops or provocateurs agents (protip: cops often drive very well, better than the average comrade) here.
I'm not >>1186659
, tho I must admit I found "the culmination of your pint" bit (as in beer pint) pretty funny ngl lol.
>>1186421>There is no way Iranians could choose another path to something more socially progressive AND socialist
Nobody said that, cunt.
If it's not being led by communists however (and it's not), it's going nowhere.
It's the "Green Revolution" of 2009 all over.
<think of the poor oppressed women who just want to show their hair
Oh, ok. The change of tone seemed bizarre. Thanks for clearing that up. >>1186718
The government has been inching towards reform on these ridiculous issues, so this might amount to something, although unlikely to happen right now.
Iran is also set to enter the SCO. Important point.
>>1186725>Iran is also set to enter the SCO
I would like to see a socialist revolution in Iran of course but this glows.
Right now it seems all SCO countries are being thrown into turmoil or threatened by the USA. Iran is Russia's biggest helper in this war.
ngl im a little worried about my gay iranian friend at the moment since i havent heard from him since tuesday. i hope he's alright. anyway best option for iran is for the protestors to be coopted by communists and for those communists to proclaim they want to be in the SCO so that the protests cant be coopted by libs.
what a cool photo, what is going on in it?
Iran already joined a week ago
Soccer fans (up) wanted to go into the "fanzone" (down) during the finale of a Euro 2016 but it was full so the pigs teargassed them
>>1186718>Nobody said that, cunt.
Come on Phil, anti-imperialists like yourself always portray the situation as "you are either for the religious regime or for NATO imperalism!!!", as if protesters didn't have a will beyond this binary opposition.>If it's not being led by communists however (and it's not), it's going nowhere.
And I don't think a regime where religion is above all things (even though Iran still place the state above many theological concerns, compared to some other political Muslims) will help communists to thrive in Iran.>It's the "Green Revolution" of 2009 all over.
Fair point, but what is the alternative? Waiting 50 years until the US collapse, as you anti-imperialists seem to suggest? Might as well wait for the salvation through Jesus or Allah, if it's all a question of afterlife.>>1186750
I doubt protesters care much about entering the SCO, they probably see doing business with China and Russia as a completely normal thing (especially since the West often economically sanctioned Iran in the past), and I doubt any formal Marxist-Leninist party is functional enough in Iran to support and lead the protesters.
You sure? I think it only started the process.
I'm not Phil Greaves you little weirdo.
>"you are either for the religious regime or for NATO imperalism!!!", as if protesters didn't have a will beyond this binary opposition
These protests are being organised by the USA. As if the USA is suddenly relaxing internet restrictions for the working class.>Waiting 50 years until the US collapse
Nah, Russia winning in Ukraine will speed that up.
>>1186871>These protests are being organised by the USA.
Do you have evidence?
Come on now everyone in /Leftybritpol/ has known you are Phil Greaves for ages.
Then they don't know anything.
Go ask him if he posts on here.>>1186879
Like I just said.
>"We are going to help make sure the Iranian people are not kept isolated and in the dark," said US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken.
>Mr Blinken said the partial relaxation of restrictions was a "concrete step to provide meaningful support to Iranians demanding that their basic rights be respected". https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-63013359
nice troll, but this isnt a color revolution its a protest against police abuse. it wont result in regime change though
>>1186885>>"We are going to help make sure the Iranian people are not kept isolated and in the dark," said US Secretary of State Anthony Blinken.>>Mr Blinken said the partial relaxation of restrictions was a "concrete step to provide meaningful support to Iranians demanding that their basic rights be respected".
So basically he isn't doing anything. Ok
It's paving the way for US cyberwarfare against Iran and propaganda, use your thick shit for brains head.
Why don't you use your thick shit for brains uyghur? This isn't even them supporting development of noncensored chat apps, it's just them not sanctioning them. And that's a long way away from your claim that America is literally organizing the protests. You are retarded
>>1186893>The relaxation of software controls will allow American tech firms to expand their business in Iran.
Read between the lines you glowing cunt. The USA is aiming to whip up an insurgency.
back to reddit gayzone faggot
>>1186871>I'm not Phil Greaves you little weirdo.
You are a wannabe Phil Greaves then. Not sure how it helps your case.
>These protests are being organised by the USA.
If the CIA is organizing stuff in small cities like >>1186875
, well there is no hope for the working class, everything will be subverted by the omniscient and omnipresent CIA at some point or another.
In other words, it means the third-world has no revolutionary potential whatsoever until the US fall apart. According to you, Iran is already completely surrounded and infiltrated by the CIA.
It's even a wonder they manage to have a government independent of US interests when the CIA can organize nationwide protests whenever they want.
>As if the USA is suddenly relaxing internet restrictions for the working class.
>Nah, Russia winning in Ukraine will speed that up.
We will see, but things are certainly getting wild.
Personally, I don't think the international working class is gaining anything out of the Russo-Ukrainian conflict, but that's a subject for another thread.
I know you are beating but if you actually sincerely believe in any of that then I would ask you to move to a theocratic shithole lolol
Are you trying to gaslight?
It's not going to work when half the posts in this thread are that exact glowbot shit. Which actually good compared to other sites which is 90% glowbots.
Vuvuzela tier argument.
How are Iranian protesters collaborating with international capital right now? Please share information about what is happening there
Can Russia please nuke shartistan already so i can see these kinds of developments as positive again?
they are strengthening american hegemony
The Media coverage of it proves it's a glow op.
BBC is a Tory disinfo channel and everyone with enough braincells shouldn't even think of paying a license for it.
It's the same shit with the Hungarian "revolution", leftcoms like to parrot that it was a council communist led thing but the fact that it is commemorated by anti communists and libs speaks volumes.
<The morality police (Gasht-e Ershad) drive through most of south and central Tehran, and poorer districts in other Iranian cities, seeking to monitor and impose correct adherence to a ‘full hijab’ on working class and lower middle class women. Richer Iranians and those related to powerful clerics or government officials have little to fear. First of all, the ‘morality police’ rarely go to areas where they live, such as north Tehran or well-to-do suburbs of other major Iranian cities. Secondly, if by coincidence a woman from the upper echelons of society is arrested, a short phone call from one of her relatives will ensure her speedy release. Like everything else in Iran, the issue of the hijab is a class issue - the main victims being from the poorer sections of society. Indeed there are many instances where daughters or wives of senior clerics, ministers, etc are photographed (or photograph themselves) wearing no headscarf and dressed in quite revealing clothes. These appear on some of the many Instagram/Facebook/Twitter accounts of ‘rich-kid Iranians’.
Why are you equating "international capital" with "American hegemony"? The Chinese, Indian, Russian, Brazilian, Iranian and African markets aren't part of "international capital"??
And Iranians are strengthening American hegemony by refusing to wear a scarf???
As a leftist comrade which side should I be supporting here?
The poor working class comrade women?
Or the rich elite upper class bureaucrats of the Iranian old hardline government who are not workers or comrades?
Can someone help me unpack this?
Which side do we support? I know in the Ukrainian war threads only pro Russian posts are allowed, so I understand that as a leftist I am supposed to support the billionaire capitalist Putin because the mods have helped me unpack that issue.
Is it the same in this thread?
Don't use reddit, lib>>1186905
The USA has a hydra of networks, it isn't just the CIA you tedious goon.
I hope all the protestors go home in body bags.
the power vacuum will be filled by american puppets, there is literally nobody else with the organization to fill it
Stop larping retard
Revenge for what? You weren't there you shit
>>1186940>I know in the Ukrainian war threads only pro Russian posts are allowed, so I understand that as a leftist I am supposed to support the billionaire capitalist Putin because the mods have helped me unpack that issue.
As opposed to the Fascist NATO aligned liberals that seek ethnic cleansing? Putin is a vlasovite whom deserves death but this is a very clear cut matter of survival for the Russian people
Too bad the Iran government disappeared the communists. But no 70% of Iranians hate America, the rivalry with the US won't go even with a revolution. Liberals are hoping for a victory they wouldn't get because Iran is firmly out of US sphere.
As in against the Iranian bourgeoisie's oppression of the Iranian proletariat?
Wow, British media is going to build a narrative around these protests, what a shock! It means we need to support the exact contrary of what the media says. If the BBC says ISIS is bad, then we must support ISIS in its noble against BBC imperialism! >>1186940
You should support the side of reading books, because you obviously don't speak Farsi, therefore your support is irrelevant.
Leninhat what's your position on this? The women have clear grievances against the government policies that are very clearly reactionary or atleast unreasonable and not founded on any need both material or spiritual. What's your take on this?
>>1186960>BBC says ISIS is bad
They don't though, and the British state created it
>>1186940>I know in the Ukrainian war threads only pro Russian posts are allowed
Lol no. I am a mod and I constantly argue with people "supporting" the war. People don't get banned for that, if they do it's a mistake. The people getting banned over and over in those threads are like 1 guy spamming bad faith bait every day on different IPs and a bunch of insane blood thirsty posting that breaks rules
Operation Sycamore was a thing under Obama, but the BBC still said ISIS was bad back then.
Shaku Maku Ghabagh
No they were "moderate rebels"
These were the 'Free Syrian Army' and Al-Nosra
Same thing idiot
As in, if you're a Westerner, you should condemn your own country, insist your country does not interfere with Iran and ends all aggression against Iran and not participate in the Two Minutes Hate against that country in whatever form it might take, even if it's some exposure or condemnation of it's bourgeoisie.
Iran is not at war with any country
>>1186421>I think it's pretty ironic that self-proclaimed anti-imperialist people think this way.
According to the theory, the salvation is supposed to come from the low-GDP countries because the "labor aristocracy" of the high-GDP countries is too complacent with the capitalist class, yet the low/mid-GDP countries aren't supposed to revolt until the USA crumbles, otherwise they would be manipulated by imperialists.
Revolution is impossible until it isn't, to call for revolution at every popular revolt is will only cause the revolution to burnout and have the bourgeois forces adapt against it. See FARC
>>1186983>insist your country does not interfere with Iran
The only really meaningful anti-imperialist praxis, thank you.
It's in an active conflict with the Western imperialist powers and has had devastating sanctions leveled against it and has had the Western Powers fire on its soldiers and assassinate it's generals.
Are you fucking serious? Is this a joke? Can you use a single cell in your brain? The morality police is clearly a source of discontent, it's literally an incel org. Are you sure you don't just hate women?
>feminine faces of imperialism
Really not helping your case here. The CIA is an all encompassing imperialist org, I have no doubt about this and the protestors are indeed vulnerable to them but these things don't happen out of the blue, there are reasons for them and in this case the sanctions aren't the only things putting pressure upon the Iranian masses. Could you point me how does the theocratic government of Iran not a source of discontent?
Colonel's Heydari National Salvation Council
Still not war. But I don't play imperialist intrigues, I'm barely relaying what the tudeh says http://www.solidnet.org/article/Tudeh-Party-of-Iran-Down-with-the-Dictator-There-is-no-end-to-the-regimes-murderous-thuggery/
Maybe you should throw your quote at the KPRF who happens to be constantly pointing fingers at the US ruling class
It would be better to do both.
>>1187016>if you dont have absolutely perfect social policies you deserve to be overthrown an become an american puppet
ultras are the biggest enemies of socialism
>Russia starts using Shahed 136 drones
>protests erupt in Iran
Cope and seethe, NATO will fall.
nato shilling retard having zero reading comprehension, imagine my shock
A young colour revolution CIAuyghur slain in plain view of all the hand ringinf baizous. It's our time shariasters.
So you condone the mass murder of proles in Iran under the pretense they are cia provoceteurs or whatever?
Hopefully both camps fall apart at the same time so we don't have to bother with geopolitics bullshit, it's all the same conversation that gets repeated over and over again
Damn, poor kid..
The morality police policy is clearly a blunder much like the Venezuelan policy of market tolerance
proles murdered in Iran pale compared to the infathomable death and suffering caused by american hegemony, not that i expect a nato shill like you to care, just mentioning it for communists reading this
How am I supposed to understand what is happening in your dialectical 4D chess enthusiast big brain when you are implying not having a religious incel police killing women randomly because of muh sacred scarf is an "absolutely perfect social policy"? Please tell me how I should have interpreted your little green text more charitably?
>>1187085>proles murdered in Iran pale compared to the infathomable death and suffering caused by american hegemony,
No lol. Also the current admin of Iran and Theocratic hellishness is due to American meddling
just because anti imperialist countries make blunder doesn't mean you should actively cheer for their destruction
Where's your proof they're proletarians or communists dickhead?
The only successful anti-imperialism is proletarian
You think all the people being killed are bourgeois?
Wow American imperialism certainly took a big hit with that shout out to all the real communists out there! A bit more virtue signalling and the US will be defeated in no time! The periphery shall be liberated at some later point in the future
time to test those anti-satellite missiles Iran!
So they get nuked? Real life isn't a game of Civilization.
>Leninhat is a seething misogynist incel
Anti-imperialism doesn't require women being killed for not wearing a scarf correctly
Those were all petite bouj uprisings supported by western NGOs. Their success would have meant those states falling (briefly in case of Bolivia) to neoliberal IMF terror and pro-western compradors
Abolishing fundie incel cops just means Iran becomes more secular
lol what's Musk gonna do? Ban Tesla in an oil rich country?>>1187111
Yeah see your mistake here is that it's scarf wearing women going out and burning down buildings when it's just US agents.
confirmed that you are from xinjiang
Iran is literally helping Venezuela building back its oil producing capacity by providing technical expertice and saving its economy by trading with them, disgusting lying glowuyghur
learn to first consider criticism when you say something incorrect rather than immediately getting defensive
The reason why people are socially conservative when it comes to women and sexual minorities is because idpol is currently being used by the great satan to distract people from important matters specifically economic and political ones.
The capitalists went full throttle on allowing people be whatever they want as long as people don’t touch the ruling class.
Where? Online? If this is true in case of Iran why do they need cops to enforce it?
Ah yes the US in the 1970s and 80s forced Iran to ban the gays. Because that makes fucking sense lamo.
Forcing women to wear cloth because of some made up shit sounds like idpol to me, also the great Satan currently bans abortion in half of its country, so much for the capitalists allowing shit
Yeah alright, if supporting US agents being put down makes me a misogynist then I have no problem being called that.
Do you also think the Bolsheviks were misogynists for shooting bourgeois and aristocratic women?
Those are two directly conflicting statements. Only the first one is correct.
of course you don't since you're a dumb reactionary uyghur with retarded magical beliefs. it is amazing someone as pathetic as you could larp as a chauvinist
nah I'm just a communist, sorry if you're too thick for it.
You think the US government is going to let Iranians destroy the private property of one of their billionaires like this?
An attack like this would provide a perfect casus belli for the US to invade Iran.
You are implying the US secret services are all powerful and are coordinating the protests all over Iran, and then in the next breath, you are implying the Iranian army can risk launching missiles at US corporations, which would certainly mean direct US retaliations and war.
Be consistent at least a little bit for fucks' sake. If Iran can't do jack shit against US secret services, it certainly cannot resist very long in a full-fledged war against the US military. We all know Iran would become a mess like Irak and Afghanistan.
If the Feds are trying to prop up a liberal US asset, would you support it?
Don't you know? He's just a CIA imperialist trying to further the interests of the US corporations.
I'm too thicc for it indeed
Oh wow the west must be really charitable to do such deed!
>post of actual news
>people debating schizoposters on if its GlOwIE
<1 billion posts
Leftypol fell off man
Disgusting too. Many communist women in central Asia died liberating women from this fundie shit
The NKVD would have shot these reactionary morons for suggesting communists should "respect tradition"
What's there to talk about? The Communist Parties don't have all too much power, its good what the people of Iran are doing, but without revolutionary theory it will either fizzle out after the government cracks down enough or get some mild reform.
In the case of the boliva coup it was done by the pigs who escorted that pale bitch that waved a Bible around.
israel and saudi arabia must be salivating right now
>>1187103>time to test those anti-satellite missiles Iran!
it's not that hard to jam satellite communication, so it's not really necessary. >>1187149
The US is not in a position to start a war with Iran right now. Iran may not be able to fully suppress the activities of US secret services regarding political agitation , but it could be able to repel a US military invasion. There is no reason to believe that their defenses are of equal strength across all domains.
Sure I bet they love a US-declared terror org seizing power.
Saudi Arabia is basically socialist because Aramco is state owned, Turkey (NATO member) must seethe though, they don't like the kurds
jannies, found another one
he just has a shit take, calm down
kek I hope jannies don't ban you, I want more jokes like that
>infantile “anti-imperialists” legit getting their shit kicked in hard ITT
Lmao I guess that’s what happens when the jannies aren’t out there to protect them from criticism like in the Ukraine thread.
I guess women’s rights is a red line for the jannycracy.
there is no such thing as "infantile anti imperialism" glowfaggot, socialism cannot exist in our current world and multipolarity is the absolute first baby step to make socialism a reality, if even this first step is too much for you to accept, you are revealing yourself to be a western chauvinist and need to be banned
Multipolaristas sure giving social democrats a run for their money when it comes to defeatism, subservience to the bourgeoise and lack of faith in the proletariat.
Don't you have Rosa to kill? Go do some multipolarity outside
>>1187219>There is no such thing as an infantile anti-imperialist
Lenin literally talks about people who support reactionaries and autocracies against colonial empires as infantile and how it is a self-defeating strategy.
feel free to give examples to the contrary!
please name all these wonderfull succesfull socialist uprisings that happened in our neoliberal hellscape
Beyond what this anon said, >>1187238
how does Iran being an islamic hellhole help Bolivia? Did Iran caused the general strike that removed the US-backed dictatoress? Or is your logic built around "hates america = good" with nothing more than that.
People really do be getting close to "critical support for ISIS"
imagine that, having social democracies barely being able to exist is considered succesfull socialism in this neoliberal terror world, amd the reaction of unipolaristas to this is: "damn what a great and free world this is, lets extand this system for longer, maybe even indefinately"
are you even trying to prove me wrong?
It helps them by trading with them while being completely isolated from the world otherwise, but you are a western chauvinist who grew up in a bubble of wealth, so i dont exactly expect you to understand the importance of economic development over social justice
FAIRY GOD GLOWIES
According to you this is impossible. It's not. Belarus has also survived 3 decades of attempted western subversion. It can be done>over social justice
Women's liberation was central to Soviet socialism, stop pretending to be a communist
Venezuala exports oil to several Asian countries. Nepal trades with neoliberal India (led by a fascist). Bolivia exports to its neighbors and many western aligned countries
ISIS was a glow op and so is this.
Funny enough, both were fought by Iran.
Damn, its almost as if Belarus was actually a actual socialist country once
And look at it now, under constant attack just for being a social democracy
Wait, are you glowies actually trying to prove me right?
>womens liberation was central to Soviet socialism
Damn, i didn't know these protest in Iran were organized by the Bolsheviks!
Daily reminder that "color revolution" is a specific term that has a specific definition and you can't just call any protest movement that happens in an anti-American country a color revolution.
Lenin was a Marxist. If you see a quote from him, he was referring to a specific situation and his thoughts on it, because that's how Marxists analyze. If he knew generations later people would be cherry-picking quotes from him and reciting them as if they are universally true across all years and contexts, he would be disgusted.
We're making direct comparisons to the US-backed Color "Revolutions" that occurred in Eastern Europe when their governments weren't neolib, pro-Western and anti-communist enough.
Very little has changed. Most major enterprises (by employment) continues to be state owned. >GlowieYou caught me. I'm actually KGB
>Damn, i didn't know these protest in Iran were organized by the Bolsheviks!
I asked the same question before; why is suppressing women necessary for Iranian anti-imperialism?
If this is widely supported, why do they need religious police to enforce it?
I'm not necessarily saying it's not a color revolution, just that people should put some thought into the term before throwing it around. For example, a couple years ago there were protests/strikes against rising fuel prices in Iran and people here called it a color revolution. That's absurd.
This seems more overtly liberal and middle class in character than those protests, so I wouldn't be surprised if it's CIA-orchestrated. But the principle of analyzing a situation before making a judgment stands.
Belarusian libs wanted to privatize everything, join the EU and lower taxes. Tell me who is suggesting that in Iran
Actually any revolution led by people of color is a color revolution
>>1187279>why is surpressing women necessry for Iranian anti-imperialism
It isn't, but there is currently no anti-imperialist faction that could actually replace the current regime, only glowies and libs with billions in western backing
>>1187280>This seems more overtly liberal and middle class in character than those protests
Errr. Maybe at the beginning, but does it still look like that? They're beheading people and lighting people on fire, stabbing priests, burning down mosques, distributing weapons. I think it lost that character a while ago.
elon musk activated starlink. but what hope do they have of actually truly taking over iran now that the sco is involved? couldn't the sco swoop in an take any assets they need in the case of any regime change now?
also will china or russia pressure iran to give people less to protest over? really all they have to do is stop morality policing so hard.
Harden your heart, Khamenei!! Slaughter the scum the imperialists have been financing.
>>1187302>They're beheading people and lighting people on fire, stabbing priests, burning down mosques, distributing weapons
Are you unironically implying middle class libs dont do exactly that?
They tend to not do that, yes.
Wait why does that Federal Agent appear to be trying to make profits through usury?
On one hand, I don't like theocracies out of principle, but on the other, apparently one of the main symbols in the flag of the Pahlavi dynasty which makes me think this is the work of a bunch of insane monarchists.
Were you unironically born yesterday? The myth of the civilized middle class lib is the biggest lie peddled in our modern age. Libs may be restrained within their bourgeois dictatorships since they dont want to rock that particular boat, but once the pretense is not needed they devolve into complete animals in the blink of an eye. Libs are A LOT more savage and barbaric than working class people
Are you sure you're actually a socialist?
Libs are by and large working class people, and working class people are by and large libs. The middle class is part of the working class. The fuck you on about? Are you a socialist?
They are labour aristcrats that will never support socialism, but go ahead and keep praising libs
Retard. The middle class aren't labor aristocrat. Please read theory instead of getting it from twitter, disc*rd, or twitch.
>>1187395> the work of a bunch of insane monarchists.
It is' the work of' the ant women laws and morality police. fuck off.
So you're an ultra religiously sticking to your holy texts, gotcha
You obviously have zero experience with the "civilized" middle class from third world countries, but just to help you out, you may take a look at their behaviour during the hongkong and the tiananmen square riots to get an idea how they behave once they drop their masks
Tiananmen was mostly an upper class protest, not middle at all, and while HK had a mass basis (at least among HKers) every nationalist movement has to co-opt the masses at some point and that place has weird political dynamics that don't generalize to the world at large.
r/proiran presents: iranian protests in a nutshellhttps://i.redd.it/pwn7pq05hnp91.png
(sorry for reddit link the file is too big to upload)
I agreed with you up until you said, "A fight against imperialism without fighting capitalism will always allow new imperialists to pop up". There's a limit on the economic growth required to form new imperialist nations, and we have hit it.
Yeah, we actually hit that limit a long time ago. I think Japan was the last major imperialist power. Any “new” ones are, at most, imperialist lackeys who are simultaneously being exploited themselves (see: Asian tigers, India, Brazil, etc.)
40,000 people is a fuck load to deal with.
If this is the only city then it could probably be taken care up relatively peacefully, but if it is spreading, then these fires get harder to put out.
If Iran cracks down too hard, then the Kurds from other regions could consider this an opportunity to intervene.
One observation from the video is that none of the protestors are armed. I don't see a single rifle, shotgun or handgun of any type. Literally people carrying fucking 2X4's. Still a protest and not a "uprising" or "revolution".
Fiery….but mostly peaceful.
>>1187468>tfw you have to perfomratively wave guns around before you're allowed to be an uprisng or revolution
It helps when you are trying to revolt against the 14th most powerful military in the world who seized powerful by using guns to shoot and kill the previous government.
To be the man….you have to beat the man.
Glowie infested thread
>organic protest movement appears
>USA and Elon muskrat leap to give them internet access if possible
>communists immediately call the protesters CIA
I wonder if this could impact how sympathetic the protesters are to socialism and create a self-fulfilling prophecy. I better not think too hard about it.
That's fair. I think there are many more legitimate grievances here than the people protesting in Venezuela, for instance. I just hope the movement does not end up turning Iran into just another neoliberal hellstate, that's all.
What are they chanting? Sounds like "Israel" for some reason.
Lel things are definitely going to keep escalating hard into civil war territory, aren’t they?
All the Iranian government had to do was not force women into the hijab and they could have kept their wholesome chungus “anti-imperialist” state, but I guess even the most basic of concessions was too much for the decrepit theocracy.
What do communists outside of “lefty”pol and PatSucc Twitter have said about the protests?
Have the KKE or even wooswoos put out a statement?
The memory of her and victims of reactionary fundamentalist politics should be remembered with solemnity. I don't like jokes about this shit tbh.
I honestly don't think they meant to kill her. Just tune her up a little and put her in line of the Islamic republic. All police and "Peacekeepers", in all ideologies, in all nations, in all history have killed people either intentionally or accidentally.
One thing the anarchists get absolutely right.
Violence is the supreme authority through which all other authority is derived. I am sorry she died. Its crap. We are monkeys on a spinning globe killing one another over bronze age scripture from illiterate goat herders. All over a fucking piece of hair.
Last unbiased international observer count I saw estimated at a minimum 50 dead so far in Iran. Before this thing is through I believe there will be many many more. Shit like this is what leads to global multiple nation warfare.
Archduke Franz Ferdinand was a high ranking military officer who never saw a single day of combat in his entire life until the black hand came calling with nades and pistoleros.
One person can change the entire course of human destiny.
After Syria, I don't think that Iran can just go in and crush the uprising with barrel bombs and bullets. Not with everyone on planet earth having a cell phone and Elon Musk shooting mini satellites in orbit everywhere.
Syria is still in a bad state of war, and Turkey is in the game, Iranian militias are there, the U.S. is stationed there.
It took 12 days and 61 deaths before Bashar al-Assad delivered his first address about the crisis.
Iran seems to have studied zero history and just immediately reaches for the gun.
Times change. Mohammad himself was a young man who fought and rebelled against the old hard liners. Were his battles so different than the young people in Iran fighting for their voice, their spirit, their soul?
Young hearts…be free….tonight….
One nice effect of the uprising in Iran is that we won't have to suffer through so many islamist larpers in the communist movement for a while.
realistically the best that could happen? the worst? Seems kinda weak tbh
Social revolution or protracted civil war
i hate retarded morons like you
lib have hegemony, which means most ppl have a lib view
"muh labor aristocrat" to an increasingly impoverished and vast"middle class" catch all invented precisely by libs to counter marxist analysis
fuck off retarded cunt, splintering support is cointelpro
I think the worst case scenario would be the return of the Pahlavis or some othe pro-west dictatorship.
How? Relations of production would literally stay the same with a shittier foreign policy which would collapse Resistance to Israel/Us throughout the Middle East.
Its either the status quo or full socialism for Iran, anything else is strictly worse for the socialist cause.
Don't you have IMF loans to take Sandinista? The socialist cause will be ok without a morality police or insane religious people managing things don't worry
>>1187736<Socialist cause will be ok if we allow Israel to seize complete control of the Middle East
Are you ok?
Are you on crack?
This shitty movement as of now showed NOTHING about class or socialism or anything red in any kind of ways. Why the fuck should i cheer a bunch of liberals which could even lead to restoration of the fucking Shah at worst?
>>1185214>tfw they took this from us
RETURN TO THE TRADITION OF 1972! REJECT THE MODERNITY OF 1979!
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