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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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 No.1188414[Last 50 Posts]

Why do imageboards lean so right-wing? You'd imagine social rejects would be revolutionaries, not upholding the same system that excluded them in the first place.

 No.1188425

Decades of psy ops combined with a healthy dose of bots and shilld trying to create Canon fodder on Vase of a leftist threat to the government. I suggest you read up on the Dead internet theory.

 No.1188429

/pol/ and the alt right were part of the great idpol psyop of the 2010s by porky to destroy radicalism and class consciousness.

https://medium.com/@MKultrawoke/the-truth-about-the-alt-right-a-destruction-by-facts-and-logic-e3d07f27e8cb

 No.1188430

>>1188414
Did Lenin sit at home and fap all day? did Che? Ho Chi? I think not. Revolutionaries do not masturbate. Embrace Revolutionary Celibacy.

 No.1188439

>>1188430
celibacy has nothing to do with masturbation, unless you’re an evangelical

 No.1188444

Autism makes you hate change.

 No.1188445

>>1188430
Celibacy? Do you think Stalin, Ho, Mao, Che, Fidel, etc didn't fuck all the time?

 No.1188468

>Why do imageboards lean so right-wing?
Anonymous posting. It's a double edged sword. Reddit is also garbage but at least sub owners/mods can enforce rules on the age of accounts, aged accounts can be bought but it's still somewhat of an obstacle considering you can view posting history. The only thing you need to shit up an imageboard is a handful of residential IPs, so it makes it extremely easy to astroturf with rightoid nonsense so anyone looking for an actual discussion on a topic and not sneed about black mermaids and jews will leave.

 No.1188476

>a whole bunch of shit ignorant answers
fucking hell

0) In this day and age, in most of the english speaking world (by populaiton, think cities), being a nazi or lolbert makes you a social reject. Most socialists don't sperg out over obviously-dumb or edgy things and get shunned from expressing their views in society.
1) Imageboard culture attracted edginess, like hitler and stalin memes on 2000s /b/. Hitler got a bigger reaction from normalfags so he prevailed a bit more. Reactionaries thought they had found a home, initially unironic stormfags were largely repelled but as >>1188429 absolutely failed to explain, there were organized open raids from rightoid forums to push nazism on 4chan.
2) When a room has nazis in it, non-nazis will be more likely to leave. This is a feedback loop. This is also why most 'free speech' forums are either:
[if fake freeze peach] nazis and lolberts
[if closer to authentic freeze peach] literal schizophrenics and pedophiles

 No.1188542

Not sure how consequential in reality, but there was an organized recruitment/propaganda push from neonazis in the early days of the internet

https://idontspeakgerman.libsyn.com/79-tom-metzger-part-2-the-origins-of-online-hate

 No.1188546

The only people who can sit around and shitpost all day are white collar suburbanites and the chronically unemployed. Both groups historically go fascist at the drop of a hat.

 No.1188628

None of the explanations posted so far explain the same development taking place many years prior to /pol/ in other countries like Japan where the mainstream has always been very right-wing

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netto-uyoku

 No.1188650

>>1188414
What makes you think imageboards are full of "social rejects"?

 No.1188655

>>1188628
>prior to /pol/ in other countries like Japan where the mainstream has always been very right-wing
2channel predates pol

 No.1188671

In my opinion the goal was always to kill the socialist/communist movement.
Either replace it with a similar Trump tier stuff or just call communists nazis.
It works. Today if you have hard left views people will think you’re a Nazi.
Horseshoe theory and all

 No.1188698

>>1188546
You can shit post almost anywhere at any time. That's why everyone is taking 20 minute poop breaks. Even homeless people have phones. The vast majority of humanity is connected to the internet. 83% of people in the world have these mind melting devices in their hands.

https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world

 No.1188819

Unironically because every imageboard userbase that isn't Japanese consists of comfortable middle class young white men.
>but /pol/ actually isn't white!
That infamous HWNDU screenshot that keeps being falsely attributed to /pol/yps is just a group of non-white dorks in a very racially diverse city being goofballs. It really doesn't represent the average demographic for 4chan /pol/, most of the people in that photo-op turned out to be youtube/twitch e-celebs. You're falling for their b8 every time you joke about /pol/ not being white, they love it when you redirect your anger into an imaginary strawman they've set up on purpose. There has been cases before where you have had white reactionaries getting caught red handed pretending to be Black/Jewish online. If you want to see what /pol/ looks like IRL just search any neo-nazi or militia rally, all of them are pasty white men who come from a well off suburbanite background.

 No.1188851

>Why do imageboards lean so right-wing? You'd imagine social rejects would be revolutionaries, not upholding the same system that excluded them in the first place.

You'd imagine incorrectly then.

Historically speaking, it's rarely the socially maladroit that become revolutionaries. While I'm sure someone will mention different minority groups, including those looked upon as "taboo" by wider society (for example, LGBT folks) as trending towards revolutionary and radical rhetoric, those are minority communities.

The trend among a great deal of Fascists is that they're usually an outsider within the mainstream. Adolf Hitler was the offspring of an Austrian bureaucrat, not upper class but still solidly in the middle. H.P. Lovecraft, similarly, was part of the cultural milieu that formed the "upper crust" of New England society. What these two men have in common was an extremely poor social upbringing, near non-existent relationships with their fathers, and overbearing mothers.

I'm no psychologist, but it'd be ridiculous to say that how we relate to our parents doesn't have a big impact on how we later relate to others. Deprived of a stable household that encourages socializing with peers, falling under the thumb of people in an explicit, biological hierarchy above you, it means you never learn to relate to people as people.

Minorities have their community imposed on them from above. They're implicitly made to socialize because they understand that if they don't, their chances of surviving in wider society diminish.

But middle class, mainstream loners? To some extent, they're a rougher lot. This is because their struggle is internal. They don't have a hierarchy imposed on them from above. All things considered, they're an "equal" to other people in the ruling social group. The problem is, they're desperately alone. They spend their time totally ignored by their peers because they have no clue how to approach them. They feel imposed upon by society, but they don't have a hand reaching out to help them.

So they naturally become angry. Alienated. They can't relate to people as equals because they didn't have the socialization that helps them see others as equals. They're only used to discipline and enforcement. These aren't healthy things for any child to have.

I'm sure /pol/ types are similar. Maybe they had emotionally distant parents. Maybe they'd be left to their own devices far too long. Maybe there was no intervention after their 12th hour alone in their room browsing their computers. Who knows. But it's left them a resentful fuck who's secretly envious of the minorities they despise because they have the sense of community they wish extended to the mainstream, without realizing why that community exists in the first place.

 No.1188872

>>1188851
>TL;DR fascist image board users are usually outcasts due to internal characteristics resulting from individual decisions rather than an externally imposed upon label. An InCel is someone who identifies as one, not something placed on them by society

 No.1188877

>>1188851
Lovecraft became a socialist and switched over to our side later in his life. He was based.

 No.1188889

Easier to fit in than to break everything down.

 No.1188896

>>1188877
I know.

And the catalyst for Lovecraft’s later socialist transformation was him actually getting a social life, a group of friends. Socialization and community are necessary aspects of socialism. Being able to relate to people as people.

Hitler had failed on that basic level. He had no friends in Vienna, as far as I know. He seemed profoundly incapable of forming any kind of romantic bond with others. Even during WW1, he’d been unable to form bonds with the other soldiers as far as I see. He couldn’t relate to people as people, only archetypes.

 No.1188920

>>1188889
I’d have to disagree. I think to a lot of these people, y’know, it actually seems easier to hate everything and everyone and actively seek to be hated by people in turn than to learn to socialize later in life.

To some extent I can empathize.

I’m an Aspie myself, I’ve had a pretty lonely life in a lot of ways. I’d spend years basically not socializing outside of school. I was torn between a desire to have friends and an anxious fear I’d never measure up. My condition also gave me a ton of self loathing. Made me think I was a freak or wrong somehow.

Overtime, and with the help of some extremely extroverted friends, I’d spent more time out of my comfort zone. Until one day my friends and I were commuting back from Hollywood, having just been to a club and drunkenly singing along to some Queen song. That’s when I realized that, hey, I actually had a social life.

Point is some of these idiots, most probably, can’t make the leap. If they try, they fumble and give up forever.

 No.1188938

>>1188414 (OP)
>Why do imageboards lean so right-wing?
terminal contrarianism towards what is perceived as the status quo
from 2003-2008 it was perceived that the conservatives were in control of the usa both culturally and politically so 4chan leaned leaned left
from 2008 onwards when obama gained control the imagine boards perceived the leftwing gaining power and so began to shift towards the right wing in order to maintain its contrarianism.
from 2016 when drumpf won, 4chan again began to shift back left but things like
the rest of the internet clamping down on free speech(h8 speech for the sissys) like reddit, black lives matter burning down cities and the media sticking up for them made it seem like the left wing still had control of the country socially while the right had control politically which prevented 4chan from swinging further left and so has somewhat stagnated since
4chan hasn't really moved since biden won in 2020 since it didn't swing left enough during trumps presidency.

 No.1188968

>>1188430
>Did Lenin sit at home and fap all day? did Che? Ho Chi?
No. They just had lovers, wives, and children because they weren't prudish losers.

 No.1188993

>>1188938
You had apolitical centrism on 4chan for a bit after Trump got elected. Until reactionary e-celebs hijacked the "both sides are dumb" rhetoric in order to get people to vote for conservative populist candidates. I remember CNN talking about 4chan hacking Macron's email, from then on I knew that various rightoid groups would permanently make that website their home base. No wonder why every sfw blue board is filled with non-stop /pol/ shit.

 No.1189057

>>1188993
>No wonder why every sfw blue board is filled with non-stop /pol/ shit.
this is really just a symptom of the media becoming full of /pol/bait, it's hard to have a serious discussion about lord of da rangs or other modern shows on /tv/ when the showrunners have decided their middle earth needs to have the racial demographics of an american city no matter how absurd, same goes for /v/ and most of the other blue boards, /pol/ is ever present because /pol/bait is ever present

 No.1189061

>>1189057
>showrunners have decided their middle earth needs to have the racial demographics of an american city no matter how absurd,
That within limits of suspension of believability

No beards on drawfettes tho

 No.1189071

>>1188993
>>1188938
I'm thinking a lot of the /pol/yps came from Reddit thinking that 4chan was Trump Central.

 No.1189099

>>1189071
Grandpa has a lot to learn, it's always the hot women who are traps.

 No.1189422

>>1188819
the simple answer is usually right
thanks anon

>>1188851
<they're right wing not because they grew up well-off and normal - they're right wing because they're outcasts
What about all the other right wingers then? Or other fascists specifically?

 No.1189460

>>1188671
thank you for your insightful contribution to this thread

 No.1189468

File: 1664089664785.png (155.96 KB, 393x292, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1188896
>Socialization
Socialization

 No.1189516

>>1188851
This all describes me and I'm still here. I think it's really just a question of intelligence. Smart people become socialists, retards become fascists. Psychoanalysis is not necessary.

 No.1189550

>>1189422
>What about all the other right wingers then? Or other fascists specifically?

Firstly I'm not disagreeing that the conditions these people grew up in could be described as "normal", most likely they were born to middle class white families, they never had to experience anything resembling systemic oppression. Maybe they've experienced want a few times, but this has been mostly within their power to control. I pointed out that two extremely right wing people, H.P. Lovecraft and Adolf Hitler, both were born into middle class families that insulated them from working class struggle. And both of them had similarly bizarre and unhealthy relationships with their parents.

I think it's precisely because these people are middle class that their brains can "break" in just the right way to make fascists.

A man born into a working class family is a man who knows want and who knows struggle. He engages with his peers on the basis of survival. A man born into a middle class family has the basic tenants of survival down, and has the luxury of engaging with peers on terms of ideas. Adolf Hitler, from what I understand, had a relatively lonely childhood and an even lonelier adulthood. He pursued the typical middle class passion of trying to make something of himself as an independent individual, an artist, rather than become another grey suit slaving away in some horrible bureaucracy. He failed, of course, but it was a failure entirely of his own making.

One can think of a gay child being thrown onto the streets by his family as an outcast. Yet that child is an outcast by means of external factors. He can find a community among other gay people. Survive that way. Hitler, though? He existed in that peculiar, middle class way. Thoroughly without labels that would bind him in solidarity with others (as he was an Austrian speaker in an Austrian city) nor engaging in social labor all that often (I believe he made ends meet by painting postcards for tourists). He was alienated, isolated, and when the nationalist frenzy of WWI rolled about, it was probably the only time he felt a part of a collective political project, if only because he could engage with nationalism as an idea rather than an imposed label (as minorities experience).

And to be frank, Nationalism was a tantalizing ideal for him. He could get what he wanted out of it, whilst maintaining the basic premise: that Germany was the greatest nation on Earth. He could impose all his beliefs of what a German is onto Nationalism and delude himself into thinking they were real because, hey, the State was encouraging him to. It made him a better soldier.

This is different from the experience of the true upper class, however. There are plenty of tales of old-school reactionaries and aristocrats who loathed Fascism. Not because of any serious moral compunctions, but because they saw its adherents as low-brow thugs. Kaiser Wilhelm, for example, once complained that Hitler turned a nation of "artists and poets" into some mindless war machine.

Because once you reach the level of material security that comes with being part of "The Elite", past a point you engage in a kind of detached hedonism. You don't have the manic energy that comes with some middle-class petty-bouge desperately trying to stay in his class position and constantly engaging in conflict from above and below.

It's why, often enough, it's the WASPs and other elite-aligned subcultures in America that become "social justice" fanatics, because they're already untouchable. Someone middle class would see liberal conceptions of reparations as a death knell, some tax bomb that'd kick them down the ladder. Someone upper class just sees it as a kind of charity. They'd sit diligently, paying thousands to some overpriced HR rep to inform them of their white privilege, because they don't actually feel threatened by it. If anything they get the same kind of bourgeois joy from smug lectures as they did from world music, or Feng Shui, or whatever office subculture was the latest trend in decades past.

People who grow up well off without falling into some individual trap of social anxiety usually just become liberals. At least in The West. They engage in idle flirting with ideas among peers to fight off ennui. It's loners and creeps that end up becoming diehard fascists.

 No.1189558

>>1189550
See, I got called retarded here like a week ago for saying fascism is middle class in nature, but CPUSA Anon gets it

 No.1189563

File: 1664092410401.png (111.5 KB, 700x765, smugmask.png)

>>1189516
I'm not saying it's a hard and fast rule. Shit, as I said I'm an Aspie who's had his own struggles with a social life. I just think the general trendline pushes certain people towards lashing out and adopting noxious politics.

Let's not forget, most of these right wingers are aware they're loathed by huge swathes of the population. I think they take comfort, however, in knowing that if they couldn't gain worth by winning peoples' love, they can develop self-worth by imagining themselves as certain peoples' nightmares.

It's why, often enough, you'll see some fascist parade around as a "former leftist" or "former socialist" even though they likely read little to no real Socialist theory. It's some desperate declaration of worth. "You could have had me and my big brain on your side! But I've heroically rejected you, seductive witch!"

It's also why the chinlet meme really affected them. Their egos are fragile. If you aren't literally crying with anger like a liberal at the sight of a swastika, if you're laughing at them, then suddenly their self-worth crumbles and they lash out in rage.

>They're not inspiring terror nor idolization.

>They're just a goddamn laughingstock.
>And it hurts them, so fucking much, when you point it out.

That is the primal fear of an individual fascist. To be seen as someone unworthy of being taken seriously. Someone to be dismissed. Someone to be mocked, humiliated. They don't even have the dignity of being treated as a threat. They're just embarrassing losers.

 No.1189710

>>1189550
>>1189558
I do not disagree that the middle class has a relation or even a predisposition to fascism, although I also think it's dangerous to imply that the lower classes, or indeed even the upper class (I didn't study him but I assume Sir Oswald Ernald Mosley, 6th Baronet was one) cannot be enthused by fascist ideals. That's why I consider the whole 'middle class fascism' and 'pol is middle class' thing often too oversimplified, the kind of thing that starts as an accurate and even profound observation until it gets parroted and bastardized into a destructive falsehood.

>>1189516
If it were a question of intelligence, you'd likely be a fascist, because that's a bloody dumb thing to say comrade. If you had to simplify it to a word, I'd say it would be about values more than intelligence.

 No.1189715

>>1189710
You're a moronic fascist sympathizer.

 No.1189734

>>1189550
Your analysis is correct but i think it should be noted that a lot of the fash street thugs come from relatively lumpen background ,ofcourse you have some middle and high class larpers throw in but the actual muscle are often drug addicts and mentally chalenged individuals who find home in an org with little moralism(despite the whole peterson self help shit the right is always more degenerate than the organized left) that you can at the same time feel like a nationalist hero while taking drugs and brutalizing outnumbered immigrants ,there was a stereotype of the the petit bouj fash but while their leadersip is bouj the average "family man" while rascist still supports more established right wing parties.

Btw a lot of these lumpens are forced to live with the migrant they hate since some poor block will be forced to work the corner(sell drugs) or a cheap local convenient store, thats why you see nazis with immigrant wives and shit

 No.1189756

>>1189715
didnt read

 No.1189809

>>1188414
Fascism is the new punk.

 No.1189812

>>1188414
successful stormfront raids and the spreading of /pol/

 No.1189832

>>1188414
>You'd imagine social rejects would be revolutionaries, not upholding the same system that excluded them in the first place.
They used to be, but /pol/ and other assorted psyops changed it from "hating society and how it is structured" to "wanting to fit into and be on top of society", its why /pol/ are all just insufferable normies who use racial slurs.

 No.1189835

As someone who grew up during the gg shit(the first time i entered into english speaking internet) it seemed to mostly be based on extremelly hateful people ,like for every one post on buzzfeed there were 20 edgy nerds making 20 minutes rant, i was always alienated cause i thought that taking one feminist who says something weird and criticizing the whole modern womens movement is pure idiotic autism , i then realize that the internet bouj has money to gain by such hate spirals

 No.1189870

>>1189809
This, people rebel against those who tell them what they can’t do. Previously it was the conservative establishment telling people they can’t be gay, or be black and expect equality, or that you can’t expect a good life JUST for working.

Now these days its the liberals who ironically have the perception of being the ones telling people what they can and can’t do, you can’t use offensive language, you can’t support gun ownership, you can’t find fat people less attractive and you still can’t expect to have a good life JUST for working.

So it became “punk” to become a lolbertarian because frankly, it’s liberating for punks to just exist to offend people when there’s all these rules about how to avoid offence. Previously they were anarchists offending conservatives and their values, now it’s lolbertarians offending liberals and their idpol values.

Tbh though, this is why punks were always shit political allies. They were always edgelord egoists piggybacking on any movement that ostensibly puts them in a position of “controlling” the emotions of others and self-promotion, they haven’t just become failed-normies looking for attention and a sense of superiority with 4chan becoming alt-right.

There’s a reason why there’s many lifelong Marxists but not many lifelong punks, eventually the alt-right will grow out of this and like the punks of old will heavily tone down their opinions in favour of career prospects. Like the punks of old, the only memory of their former existence will be a Pepe sticker placed somewhere inconspicuous on a Cadillac.

 No.1189889

>>1189870
you really thought you wrote something there with your pathetic attempt at owning punks lmao

 No.1189891

>>1189889
You’ve said literally nothing in this post

 No.1189898

>>1189891
suck my dingo bingo.
punk is anti-authority and anti-conformity. you can't conform to tradition if you are a punk. alt-right can NEVER BE REAL PUNKS.

 No.1189899

>>1189898
Lmao okay, I’m going to go have some toast with Country life butter and reflect on how committed Punks are to nonconformity

 No.1189915

>>1188851
As I've said before, postmodern politics is mostly mommy and daddy issues.
It goes to show that childhood is the basis off all human identity.
Generation gaps, ethnic divides, civil wars, gender wars are all based on accumulation of experiences from childhood (and early adulthood).

It makes matters worse when you promote childhood as a sanctity of innocence and adventure, and seeing as you didn't get any of that, it makes you more spiteful, because you cannot relate to your peers, leading to lasting relationships and potential business deals.

 No.1189916

>>1189915
:neutral_face:

 No.1190066

The idea that most imageboards lean right is inaccurate or even that they're entirely populated by social rejects. All of this
>Its all middle class white men incel /pol/
stuff is generally inaccurate. 2channel and futaba were a place where Japanese people could anonymously vent given that their social structure in public was extremely rigid and stressful. This did tend to skew towards technically adept men at the start, only because in the late 90s computing in general required more interest, money etc…and was seen as a "nerdy" thing to do, but there were still a significant amount of women online experiencing the benefits of anonymity. When imageboards arrived to the English speaking world predominantly with 4chan it grew to be one of the most popular sites around. It remained cathartic, but wasn't only stereotypical incel losers and even in the more infamous parts of the site women were common. Much like old school forums, IRC, and other pre social media and mobile web culture, imageboards were not right wing but varied over the years from a sort of ironic detatchment to a hacker ethos (which was in many ways pretty left leaning ) and more; describing that culture from the 90s-early 2000's Internet could easily be its own post. Anyway…

It wasn't until circa 2015-2016 that imageboards started having a right wing presence as a serious element, mostly because of the fallout from GamerGate allowing people to slide down the pipeline. GamerGate itself was not inherently a right wing element, but was rather a lot of clashing issues from the crappiness and incestuous nature of "game journalism", to a rising of political correctness growing during the Obama era that became incredibly obnoxious, contrasted with the fact that the downward spiral of material conditions since the 2008 crash-and-bailout-for-the-ultra-wealthy-fuck-everyone-else, and more (during the Occupy and Arab Spring era imageboards were generally had a left leaning supportive dynamic, but that's another post again). So by the time that "GamerGate / NotYourShield" came along it was frustrating that the most obnoxious idpol types had be revving up for awhile and now they came for something many enjoyed; an external force coming in and claiming that gamers and their games were all problematic. Their arguments were tenuous at best and poorly supported, many times echoing the very same things that had been debunked regarding violence and other antisocial behavior a decade ago when the religious Right and helicopter parents came for gaming in the 90s, but this time it was all about sex and gender. That is another whole post to discuss that era, but suffice it to say that a lot of bad or needless changes to content or cultural elements surrounding gaming were at least proffered by the industry, probably in a PR-heavy avoidance of controversy, which seemed a betrayal to their long standing community. Thus, the Right wing "thought leaders" from Steve Bannon down to various YouTubers found fertile ground to recruit - they were some of the only ones calling out the obnoxiousness of the politically correct Sarkeesian wing unabashedly, which they also mixed with a huge dose of Right wing social and economic beliefs and thus sped the pipeline to the Right - something that those of us who were there at the time argued vehemently would happen if there weren't enough of those of us who could critique the so called "feminist" views and show that many leftists didn't agree with as well.

From there we saw a rising of the Right, specifically around newcomers to imageboards for /pol/ (often from right wing sub-Reddits who were told stories that 4chan is the place that really BTFOs the libtards because you can say the n-word) and similar content. With the rising of the political primaries leading up to 2016, more and more energy coalesced into the culture war stuff we see today. In the past 4chan may have had everyone calling each other double n-words, but it was pure catharsis often without malice; the average user really didn't think that black people were genetically inferior or there was a massive jewish plan to replace white people with foreigners. The acceleration of the new alt-right changed this and the imageboards were only a part of it, but one that both sides would somehow focus upon and give way more importance to it than actually necessary. The portrayal of these places as "evil places where the worst incel reactionaries go" is a self fulfilling prophecy and every bad decision makes it worse. Since then things have typically gotten worse because of the ongoing culture war nonsense.

This is a massive oversimplification and there's so much more I could talk about of the different factors involved, but imageboards have never been specifically for the Right; in fact up until recently they were predominantly a place for old school hacker ethos, which much like the open source/libre community tends to lean libertarian-left. Its not only imageboards, but I think things will continue to get worse with every bad decision made that seems to be attributed to the "Left" (more often than not social, politically correct style). People wake up every day and see some change to a game script/content, some censorship of something deemed objectionable or an attempt to cancel, attempted deplatforming and inhibition of free speech/discourse conceptually which used to be something quite important to the Left, the apparent (if inauthentic) adoption of "we are making content to avoid getting pilloried by the loudest of woke twitter" , and see the "left" harming things they enjoy and seemingly wielding an immense amount of social power, while also claiming oppression when questioned - this continues to lead people rightward . The best thing that we can do is show that leftist policies don't have to, and shouldn't, come in a package deal with what the most obnoxious progressive stereotypes demand. On imageboards or elsewhere this will be a difficult battle but the boards aren't natively "right" or likely to go that way, pretending that is the case is basically empowering our enemies. Its hard to fight a war on two fronts, against both the machinations of the actual right and those who are ostensibly on "our" side, but it will be necessary if we want a better outcome online or off.

 No.1190069

>>1188414
Because Stormfront started astroturfing to alienated, extremely online youths in the early 2010's

 No.1190186

>>1189710
Values stem from intelligence retard

 No.1190225

A simple fact of the matter is that the right has more sophisticated bot networks and 4chan is generally botted to all fuck by various parties and companies in order to give the impression that their positions are the grassroot ones. Like /pol/ as a whole is generally more pro-Ukraine than it is pro-Russia thanks to all the glows who go against Russia there now, let alone the rest of 4chan.

 No.1190353

File: 1664132334149.pdf (583.75 KB, 180x255, Bataille Fascism.pdf)

If you really want to know, read .pdf related

 No.1190400

>>1189516
>People who agree with me are smart, people who disagree with me are dumb
>Simple as

 No.1190404

>>1189898
>you can't conform to tradition if you are a punk
Sounds like youre demanding conformity.

 No.1190412

>>1189550
lovecraft turned to socialism later in life

 No.1190437

here's an interesting question to ponder: rather than asking why imageboards are right-wing, ask why right-wing ideas and aesthetics are so well adapted to imageboards. (and if you want to go further, "meme form")

think of it in evolutionary rather than intellectual terms. apparent bugs in an idea like being stupid and malicious on the face on it may actually turn out to be key loadbearing structures in their success. (because, for example, they provoke arguments, or help one group put a line in the sand between itself and others) equally, think of it in evolutionary rather than market terms - an idea is often a brain parasite puppeting someone to further spread itself, not a commodity freely chosen in a marketplace and then advertised for voluntary uptake by word of mouth.

 No.1190463

>>1190437
>ask why right-wing ideas and aesthetics are so well adapted to imageboards.
Reactionary takes are oversimplified to the point they can be expressed via memes a lot more easily than left-wing takes. That's where the whole "The left can't meme" meme came from, our takes aren't simple and snappy enough to generally work as a punchline.

 No.1190468

Both right wingers and image board users are mostly retards, not hard to figure out. Retardation sticks to more retardation

 No.1190499

"When education is not liberating, the dream of the oppressed is to become the oppressor" - Paulo Freire

 No.1190680

>>1190463
not really, there is plenty of concise and laconic lefty memes that are more funny and make more sense than what passes for right wing "humour" even if they fall short of explaining complex phenomena in detail. The "left can't meme" stuff is purely a circljerk phrase from right wingers online. I would post images comparing the left and right wing memes but I really can't be fucked.

 No.1190691

"The left cant' meme" just seems like a cope from the never peakers from image board dens who keep spamming soyjaks everywhere.

 No.1192364

>>1188476
>[if closer to authentic freeze peach] literal schizophrenics and pedophiles
Bullshit, banning child abuse material is not a limiting of free speech. Pornographic material is not political speech or discussion. Cope and seethe commie pedo

 No.1192368

>>1190463
>That's where the whole "The left can't meme" meme came from, our takes aren't simple and snappy enough to generally work as a punchline.

Nah, you just can't create a elaborate false framing in a short meme.

 No.1192447

>>1189710
Idealism

 No.1192494

>>1190680
Left invented the memes actually

 No.1192849

because right wingers believe everything they see that goes in their favor https://jspp.psychopen.eu/index.php/jspp/article/view/6565/6565.pdf

 No.1192920

File: 1664233541272.png (129.98 KB, 920x250, your brain on pol.png)

Despite half the thread being people chasing their tail to say what has already been said, something I didn't see come up is:

That's not really true.

Some of them lean to conservative/nationalist/christian tendencies, many even. However it isn't ubiquitous. I know many imageboards that are either neutral or even pro-anarchist, certainly in individual boards but even as a whole. Not all of them want to tolerate noxious /pol/ garbage, and some even have contradictory themes that drive off many of those easily disgusted 'rightoids'. One of my favorite imageboards going back decades has a 'no politics outside a single thread on the off-topic board' that has kept it largely drama-free, because ultimately it's a hobby board site and doesn't want to be toxic and angry. Many 8ch boards were largely apolitical apart from obvious crossboarders, and as everyone here should know some were explicitly political in other directions.

Anyway, a second mention for mental illness and fringism: not a primary cause but not to be trivialized either. Picrel is your brain after consistent exposure to /pol/.

 No.1192930

>>1188414
Just seems like a lowest common denominator in an "anything goes" cesspit. People don't really go to /pol/ to sincerely discuss politics and philosophy and economics but to simply sling epiphets for their amusement since they get off on being offensive, seemingly for its own sake. If you want those (you)s, you're going to have to outcompete the other trolls, and because those places exist for the personal gratification of the shitposter, they naturally adopt individualisti "my jolly lot in life" politics, which gives them that right-leaning proclivity.

 No.1192936

>>1190186
They don't stem from intelligence. They're influenced, they interact, but they don't all just stem from there. Cultural trends are a clear example.
Society matters.

>>1192447
Explain.

 No.1192941

>>1192930
>People don't really go to /pol/ to sincerely discuss politics and philosophy and economics
Heh, well they do catch a few idiots who confused it for a legitimate politics board. But overall, yes.
In fact, part of the reason it's popular is that edgy teens go for it. I've been "left-leaning" all my life but I made edgy jokes about hitler and ISIS and racial stereotypes online. It's taboo, like fetishism. Someone in a worse situation could eaily get groomed into echo-chambers like /pol/ where some sincere believers push their 'observations' in those edgy memes, normalizing them.

 No.1192945

>>1189898
Punk is now a tradition.

 No.1193178

File: 1664243172543.jpg (86.25 KB, 868x1024, 1546019676228.jpg)

>>1188414
Imageboards foster a misanthropic and elitist mentality towards the majority of people in society, aka. "Normalfags", which is of course where the proletariat falls. In the early 2010's this used to be done in a sarcastic lieu to mock internet neckbeards far up their asses who thought this way, but then it became a cope for autists and other actual outcasts to feel better about their social failures. Add to this their glorification of NEETdom and reactionaries' love for things like esotericism (which is anti-materialist and encourages you to sit on your ass and pray for shit to go your way, instead of getting off your knees and actually doing something) and it's no wonder why fascism is so ingrained within imageboards.
What does Communism - literally the movement of the workers and the masses - have to offer to a bunch of timid, socially awkward NEET nerds who hate humanity and have no ties to the means of production at all? Absolutely fucking nothing, at least from their perspective. They would probably off themselves if they had to live in a co-op or something akin to a soviet kommunalka for three days.
Just fucking look at wizardchan or sleepychan's /r9k/ and you'll see that mentality everywhere, it's depressing.

 No.1193188

>>1193178
hmm that makes a lot of sense

 No.1193228

File: 1664245200692.mp4 (2.58 MB, 360x642, SzB7TInnLhq_nAyt.mp4)

>>1189809
>Fascism is the new punk.
>>1189898
>punk is anti-authority and anti-conformity. you can't conform to tradition if you are a punk. alt-right can NEVER BE REAL PUNKS.

 No.1193249

They are largely the failsons of the upper strata. Their greatest fear is being proletarianized. Their greatest desire is to achieve a higher status within the current system. They have no desire to abolish it. Classic base for fascism.

 No.1193256

>>1193228
>Implying Mclaren's first boy band was ever actually punk
that vid tho
<disney+ presents
I lol'd irl

 No.1193291

File: 1664246937749.mp4 (9.45 MB, 640x480, commissar.mp4)

>>1189550
>Your analysis is correct but i think it should be noted that a lot of the fash street thugs come from relatively lumpen background ,ofcourse you have some middle and high class larpers throw in but the actual muscle are often drug addicts and mentally chalenged individuals who find home in an org with little moralism
These are the boots-and-braces types. I knew one guy from my hometown (in a large graduating class, mostly middle class) who fit this description and turned into a neo-Nazi. Like, full bonehead with Nazi tattoos (which I found out later seeing him on social media). He also really loved Trump.

What was different in this case is that he came from a poor background with what I'm assuming was a chaotic childhood (no father around as far as I know), and he was also a creep and a loner and anti-social and would lash out in anti-social ways (chaotic / disruptive behavior). And when I say creep, I mean he was an extreme creep, so I think his lashing out took the form of "edgier" or hardcore Nazism which is a bit different from a middle-class nerd who joins Patriot Front.

>>1189563
>Let's not forget, most of these right wingers are aware they're loathed by huge swathes of the population. I think they take comfort, however, in knowing that if they couldn't gain worth by winning peoples' love, they can develop self-worth by imagining themselves as certain peoples' nightmares.
That's what is so annoying and objectively bad about how the liberals react to them, because they puff these clowns up into the nightmare that they want to be, by calling fascists scary. Like oh noes bros, the fascists are on the march once again…

What's so scary about that? What is anyone afraid of? Obviously, I'm being polemical, and I can forgive an individual or my (liberal) mother for reacting out of fear at people professing a neo-Nazi ideology or marching around doing that, but I think our job is to deeply internalize Chairman Mao's dictum that these guys are paper tigers and nothing to be afraid of.

Mao wasn't saying that because reactionaries weren't dangerous. He was saying that to contrast a communist spirit from liberalism, which is fundamentally a negative ideology which encourages negative emotions and thinking and eroding people's subjective capacities to resist the reactionaries. The danger of this is that it leads liberals to try to compromise with fascists, or as we've seen in history, capitulate to them. Whereas communism is the positive. You can hear it in any communist song. I sometimes feel like this guy (from "The Fire Bulge") who is like "STOP. RUNNING." Communists encourage the strength, intelligence, independence and creativity which belongs to us as people, and we don't give up on things when we don't feel it's right to do so.

Also opportunists use this play at "fear" to get communists to give up on things and capitulate to the fascists. "Like oh noes guys, I'm so scared… we've gotta [erode solidarity with people targeted by fascist provocations] otherwise the fascists will take over…"

>That is the primal fear of an individual fascist. To be seen as someone unworthy of being taken seriously. Someone to be dismissed. Someone to be mocked, humiliated. They don't even have the dignity of being treated as a threat. They're just embarrassing losers.

Or be serious when facing them but laugh at them in victory. I agree with this though.

 No.1193549

File: 1664253961030.png (156.8 KB, 314x373, 1662846053545.png)

>>1193178
If that's the case, what does that say about us?
Are we just destined to become /pol/yps with red flags?

 No.1193658

>>1193178
>In the early 2010's this used to be done in a sarcastic lieu to mock internet neckbeards far up their asses who thought this way, but then it became a cope for autists and other actual outcasts to feel better about their social failures
imagine being this much of a newfag

 No.1193696

>>1192364
You're angry at something no-one said.

Most sites have the decency to ban people posting fantasies or instructions or rationalization of child abuse. I said speech, not images.
So pedophiles go to the only places that will accept what they want to talk about, either sites hosted by pedos or free speech extremist sites. The second is more accessible to them.

 No.1193698

>>1193178
>Just fucking look at […] sleepychan
why would you go to that site, ever? It has nothing to offer.

 No.1193702

>>1193549
>Are we just destined to become /pol/yps with red flags?
I don't know, are you a self-defeating loser with no life?
I know people who crawled out of the /pol/ rabbit-anus and got a life. Destiny is for weak.

 No.1193996

>>1193549
Dunno, i am here for the news mostly and a bit of shitposting. They key is to have actual meaningful life outside. Besides wage slaving that is. I am a member of communist reading club for example. On occasion we cooperate with another communist organization focusing currently on trade unions.

 No.1247392

Memes are for people with a low level of cognition, and so is being a reactionary

 No.1247408

>>1188414
>You'd imagine social rejects would be revolutionaries
They're social rejects, not class rejects. These are the petit-bourgeois and lumpenprole middle children of america. They grew up in suburbia and they want fascism because they hate demographic change, they hate that stacey is dating jamal, and they desperately want the crack open homeless skulls with baseball bats. They want to be feared and respected, not loved. They want to fuck women, not nurture them. They desire.

 No.1247439

>You'd imagine social rejects would be revolutionaries
The far right is revolutionary . Fascism is a revolutionary movement in that it seeks to overthrow the government.

 No.1247462

>>1247439
Military coups backed by foreign governments and anti-populist oligarchs also seek to overthrow governments.
Overthrowing the government is not an inherently revolutionary act.

 No.1247630

>>1188476
>Most socialists don't sperg out over obviously-dumb or edgy things and
The key word here is "most". But Uncle Pareto sez that a minority will always get the most attention. :^)

 No.1247650

>>1247462
Yeah but there's more. Fascists are typically citizens of the country whose government they are seeking to overthrow by way of a popular uprising in order to implement a preconceived set of social values and a new political system which is a drastic departure from the previous order.

You can have nationalist revolutions, the American revolution being one example.

 No.1247652

>>1190069
why dont we a engels sugar daddy to fund leftist psyops ?

 No.1247913

>>1188445
didnt mao have a harem?

 No.1247928

>>1188414
Masturbation is inherently reactionary
It shows no discipline and you'll literally turn into a faggot if you get the slightest urge (literally wanking off a man)

 No.1248030

there's a lot of old 30-50 year olds on 4chan now. They probably got on the site when they were in their teens/young adult years but they got old and likely got shitty tech jobs.

 No.1248259

>>1188414
>You'd imagine social rejects would be revolutionaries, not upholding the same system that excluded them in the first place.
Never underestimate the power of class treason. The liberals portrayed the left as a bunch of anti-white genocidal blue-haired crazy people. That was intentional.

 No.1248261

>>1247928
Getting fat is straight as fuck because it blocks you from seeing your dick. Looking at dicks is gay.

 No.1248716

>>1188425
>Dead internet theory
Solipsistic schizo horseshit.

 No.1249151

>>1193549
>be leftist
>be socialist
>have no social life
lmao. Go outside my man, talk to some people, spread ideas.

 No.1249182

>>1188414
>Why do imageboards lean right wing?
Because the known ones are in the Western Hemisphere and mostly used by white dudes, white social rejects in particular tend to be more psychotically racist than most white people since they’re so low on the totem pole that all they have left to cling to in western hegemonic culture is having no melanin and a penis

 No.1249183

>>1190680
I’d say it’s largely a product of most leftists being decidedly humorless people and/or devoted to making jokes with no real teeth because they’re meant to be inoffensive

 No.1249196

>>1247439
>Fascism is a revolutionary movement in that it seeks to overthrow the government
Seeking to overthrow the government just to keep the same economic system and throw out minorities which were the symptom of the economic system they still keep in place?

 No.1249201

>>1249196
A revolution =/= changing the economic system
You can have purely political revolutions in a country to overthrow the government and replace it with a different one still operating the same economy
Socialist revolutions aren’t the only form of revolution, revolution isn’t a synonym for “Good things we all like folks”

 No.1249213

Fascism = language of sexually frustrated men
Imageboards = gathering place of sexually frustrated men
Adds up.

 No.1249214

I swear, probably the best way you could have stopped fascism was to actually discuss the fascist literature and things fascists actually did, rather than ideological narratives that were created after the war to launder fascism and claim that it was a myth. I learned a lot more by reading Gentile than much of the "anti-fascist" literature, and by familiarizing myself with the figures of the period.
So many people overrate the importance of ideology for any of this. The philosophers and intellectuals were all chummy with each other.

 No.1249215

>>1249214
I read up a little on Italian Fascism one time, it was funny how much of it was exactly the same as today. I remember this one quote about how America was turning their women into uyghur-loving sluts and I remember this synopsis of some Italian Fascist sci-fi where the men invent some kind of way to become cyborgs that can have babies so they can get rid of all the women.

Almost a century later and /pol/ still talks about the same shit daily.

 No.1249216

>>1249214
People don’t discuss fascist literature because nobody has an interest in reading it
Communists have meaningful critiques of capitalism, liberals can at least write about governance since they’ve created stable governments, even conservatives can meaningfully discuss art and culture. Really, what value is there that anyone would want to read fash writings? Just to critique it? The fascist criticism of capitalism is that total subservience to the state isn’t enforced in liberalism and that nationalism gets pegged down over time due to “globalism”, if you’re a Nazi specifically then the problem is the jews. Fascist writings on governance are just how to impose autocratic rule and go to war, also not very valuable if stability is your desire. Fascist writings on art and culture, I imagine, are screeds about judeo degeneracy in art.

Like, really, what is there to read? Why do you need to read fascist theory when their ideas they promote are self-evidently nuts to most people?

 No.1249217

>>1249215
It’s actually kinda wild how reactoids have had an obsession and fear of black cock since the 18th Century

 No.1249218

>>1249215
'ere we go:

>The deviant male was above all a bourgeois, egoistic and unpatriotic as well as scarcely virile (because he was unfit or reluctant to repeatedly impregnate the female); the deviant female was the too 'modern' woman, Americanized, independent and masculinized. The social damages provoked by these two converging deviants were most serious: a widespread and 'excessive loosening of family hierarchical relations, a decline in the main of that robust virility that fascism, with much love and perseverance, pursues in other way


Can't find the artificial womb one yet.

 No.1249220

>>1249216
If you understood what fascism was pointing to, if you were willing to acknowledge the eugenic gorilla in the room, you'd see why fascism and reactionarism took on the characteristics they did. It's not self-evident or immediately evident, but it was evident to me, and it should have been evident to anyone who knows the prominence of eugenics.

If fascism is so self-evidently nuts, why does it continue to assert itself? There must be something that is commonly assumed that makes the fascist theory appealing to a broad coalition, that is willing to support it of their own volition and for their own purposes.

A lot of fascist theory from Schmitt is commonly taught in political theory. It wasn't just philosophers and ideologues that made the fascist apparatus possible. If you described what the Nazis actually did though, you'd see too many similarities and build a general understanding of what actually happened in the 20th century, and a lot of people really do not want that.

 No.1249221

>>1249220
Holy shit Eugene I do not fucking care

 No.1249222

File: 1667389194338.png (383.06 KB, 700x338, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1249220
I feel like it's just a common feature of history. Bunch of guys aren't fucking. Some guy says: "Let's go rape and pillage!" and they go. Not much more to it than that.

 No.1249224

>>1249222
Rape and pillage have been the rule of human history rather than the exception, and it isn't the failed men who rape and pillage. It's the successful ones. Using failed men was a new thing.

 No.1249225

If we lived in a peaceful and decent world and violence were the exception, capitalism as an arrangement would be impossible and obviously undesirable, so much that it never would have started. We don't, though. Marx premises his thought on the belief that we don't live in such a world, and that you had to think politically if you wanted to do anything.

 No.1249228

>>1249222
It isn’t a common feature of history, and don’t feed the troll, you’ll only exacerbate his schizophrenia

The problem with Eugene is that he has cause and effect backwards, since his mental condition has severely effected his life his understanding of politics centers around mistreatment by the mental health industry, as such he believes eugenicist policies is the purpose of modern statecraft and capitalism, rather than eugenics arising as a justification for the persecution of groups who cannot keep up with the costs and demands of capitalist production

The reason that this sort of ideology would expand in scope over time is, to me, just an inevitable paradigm all violent and reactionary beliefs tend to go, it doesn’t matter the underlying justification, once people start “rationally” justifying murdering innocents they usually go further and further down that road
>>1249224
The phenomenon of an entire class of “failed men” (incels, NEETs, etc,) making up a large chunk of young males didn’t actually exist prior to the 21st Century, long after huge conscription drives and the like, most guys in the military are normies that wanted to enlist
>>1249225
Wrong thread?

 No.1249233

>>1249228
You said complete lies that anyone with basic knowledge of human history would debunk, to defend a belief in a just world that was corrupted by spooky modernity. This shit where Marx is reimagined as a reactionary is tiresome. So are these attempts to rescue the cult of war and its logic, where war is seen as a natural and good thing rather than the abomination we know it to be. Poor people are not in the habit of loving war. Wars are initiated by people who have something to gain, and wars are never fought for their stated purpose. Even the most basic understanding of military politics and theory should tell you that. The promise of rape and pillage isn't actually that exciting, like you the grunt soldier are going to be all you can be and get rich all on your own. If you're a conquistador leading the men then it's attractive, and if you're out of work, pillage is a way to make a living. Again, you're overrating the appeal of ideology as a motivator for anything. You're also underestimating the general state of war and mliitarization, especially in technocratic societies that are on a permanent war footing and speak of war against domestic problems, that point nuclear weapons at civilian centers to force people to comply with it.

 No.1249234

>>1249233
> You said complete lies that anyone with basic knowledge of human history would debunk, to defend a belief in a just world that was corrupted by spooky modernity
Retarded opening sentence, no reason to read the rest

 No.1249235

>>1249228
Eugenics appealed not because of ideology or a myth that fooled people, but because it presented a myth that served the interest of many people in society, who were attached to things that would benefit under eugenic rule, or who saw a way to get ahead opportunistically once the cycle started.

Maybe you believe in ideology and think that constitutes black nationalism (and black people in the US are not and never will be a proper nation).

 No.1249242

>>1249235
>Eugenics appealed
To the wealthy who could coordinate actions around the idea
>but because it presented a myth that served the interest of many people in society
When will you say something remotely deep or meaningful? No shit the concept of “eugenics” served some people’s interests, it deflected blame for why life is shit from capitalism to “genetically inferior people” and gave a justification for persecuting people who couldn’t provide an immediate use for capitalists
> Maybe you believe in ideology and think that constitutes black nationalism (and black people in the US are not and never will be a proper nation).
Why tf are you talking about black nationalism now? You think I have a black nationalist flag? Is your mental condition causing you to connect disparate threads to find meaning?

 No.1249576

>>1188414
They have nowhere else to post.

 No.1249578

>>1188414
Because reactionary ideologies flatter alienated egos.


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