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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.1203086

Is there a way to organize the homeless? Currently they are the most oppressed stratum of the working class anywhere in the world and so they seem to have the most revolutionary potential out of everyone else, also since they aren't bombarded with reactionary propaganda all day everyday due to not having regular access to the internet except for the most basic functions they are probably also very receptive to communism and class consciousness.

>b-b-b-b-bbut they are le lumpens

Not all of them, in fact a lot of homeless people still have regular jobs but due to factors like debt or ridiculous housing prices they don't have access to housing. And judging by the coming crisis most of us will be homeless in a couple years so I don't want some stuck up fag to call me a lumpen just because I don't have somewhere to sleep.

 No.1203095

>also since they aren't bombarded with reactionary propaganda all day everyday
(he :skull: other media existing)

 No.1203113

promise them free heroin

 No.1203118

this needs to be QTDDTOT but homeless people can be organised just like anything else. setting up a street kitchen is a good way to know your locals as well as a good opportunity to get people organised. off of that you can then stage actions such as rallies, camp-ins or even link up with other groups as an organised bloc.

 No.1203123

>Is there a way to organize the homeless?
Giving them houses would be the best start, but then the question kind of becomes null and void.

 No.1203130

File: 1664734959560.jpg (90.66 KB, 1200x778, 5ed32be0a7431.image.jpg)

>>1203118
>off of that you can then stage actions such as rallies, camp-ins or even link up with other groups as an organised bloc.
You are thinking too small. If you're ambitious enough you can turn your local homeless camp into a sort of socialist street gang, except instead of hitting rival gangs they can hit police stations, porky security personnel or even act as guard for any future riots.

 No.1203133

>>1203123
In all seriousness, there is a level of precariousness that makes it difficult-to-impossible to develop serious class consciousness because you're too concerned about just not straight up dying. Not that there can't be exceptional homeless communists, just that I think, as a class segment, they do not have great organizing potential because they are simply too concerned with basic survival to care much about broader political/economic positions associated with their class.

 No.1203143

>>1203133
On the other hand, the industrial working class is that great sweet spot between "precarious enough to fight" and "stable enough to not have to resort to crime and deviancy for survival".

 No.1203145

>>1203133
What else can you do when you're the verge of death everyday due to capitalist society except be class conscious? Do you think anyone who isn't a white collar wagie or a suburbanoid tradie is a gangbanger or something?

 No.1203151

>>1203145
I'm not making a moral judgment. Anyone with a brain and two eyes can see that the homeless are forced into their position and it's absurd to blame them for it. That doesn't make them any more of a revolutionary group though.

 No.1203158

>>1203151
>>1203151
Here we go again.

 No.1203163

>What else can you do when you're the verge of death everyday due to capitalist society except be class conscious?
Class consciousness does not necessarily come from being miserable. If it did, then the communist strategy would be to make the working class as miserable as humanly possible. On the contrary, class consciousness among workers comes from the *threat* of precariousness, the *threat* of losing their job or ending up on the streets. That's when they start to fight for increased wages and working conditions, when they start to organize parties, etc. Look at the Great Depression; it wasn't the immediate 1929 crash and financial ruin that produced worker militancy, it was the situation afterward when everyone was economically teetering and living in extreme uncertainty.

 No.1203169

>>1203163
But that's literally what homeless people are. Did you even read my OP? A lot of homeless people are still employed or hold the prospect of employment, just because they aren't housed doesn't mean that they don't have anything to lose.

 No.1203181

>>1203169
Fair enough, but if we're talking about organizing primarily fully employed homeless workers, then I'd come back to, their main economic demand is going to be guaranteed housing. Something I think communists would fight for regardless of whether we're organizing the homeless directly.

 No.1203184

>>1203181
Should say political demand, not economic. I'm still tired.

 No.1203208

>>1203086
Many houses are empty speculative investments for big bourg finance porkies. Those could be squatted.

Just a heads up: Organizing homeless people is emotionally hard because once you witness the desperation first hand, that the capitalists are deliberately inflicting on people at the bottom to scare the rest into compliance. A type of rage and fury that you likely haven't experience before will consume your ability to see the bourgeoisie as human, they will be nothing but hostile organic matter to you.

 No.1203218

>>1203208
>Just a heads up: Organizing homeless people is emotionally hard because once you witness the desperation first hand, that the capitalists are deliberately inflicting on people at the bottom to scare the rest into compliance. A type of rage and fury that you likely haven't experience before will consume your ability to see the bourgeoisie as human, they will be nothing but hostile organic matter to you.
I think I've already reached this point years ago, even before I became a communist. Death to the bourgeoisie!

 No.1203242

>>1203086
We should give them guns and ammunition.

 No.1203261

>>[deleted post]
Great, but how do you scale this up though? Maybe a communist org could fund a small scale homeless shelter or collaborate with an existing one and work from there?

I wish I could personally contribute honestly but unfortunately I don't live alone and I don't have spare room for anyone else, besides my country is a political blackhole and there's no prospect for peaceful organizing, only a violent uprising once the economic situation becomes unbearable enough. The only thing you can do is participate in charity which I hate because it doesn't offer a solution to the problem and makes homeless people completely dependent on others for help instead of being self-dependent and fighting for their rights. This thread is more for firsties and others who have the ability to organize without fearing for their lives and safety.

>>1203242
That too.

 No.1203297

>>1203086
lumpen-proletarians are a part of the working masses and they need to be organized for the bourgeoisie not to win them for it's side, no one actually goes and says "oh lumpen beggars and homeless fucks fuck you", but the problem of the lumpen that's been persisting through out most of the revolutionary history is that they represent an army of empty souls who could be bought or sold easily by the cheapest price.
as much as capitalism creates a huge poverty and insane state of opression, as much as it can exploit these broad sector of poor masses against the revolution while they are the most ones who need the revolution, but thanks to capitalism they became so desperate even from the revolution which comes to afford them a better life conditions.
even when they join it, they join it without a conscious like that of the proletarians, they mostly go to riot and steal randomly.
there lies the big problem of the lumpen, yet anyone says that they are to be ignored is a fucking asshole and is giving the counter-revolution a piece of chance to win, they should be mobilized and exploited with firm iron hand for the proletarian cause.
if it ever happened and they did attack (and they mostly will do), then an immediate revolutionary terror should be in motion against them, at least to neutralize their position during the revolution.

 No.1203298

>The first arrests for sharing free food (aka 'sharing') occurred on August 15, 1988 at the entrance to Golden Gate Park in San Francisco, California. Nine people were arrested that day, including McHenry. The city made over 1,000 arrests, and Amnesty International declared these volunteers 'prisoners of conscience'.[9]

>In the summer of 2007, the Fort Lauderdale, FL FNB chapter began receiving systematic harassment from local law enforcement culminating in an ultimatum presented by the Fort Lauderdale police. The police demanded the arrest of volunteers responsible for the public the 'sharings'. The following week, hundreds of supporters for FNB managed to compel local law enforcement to relent, which lasted until the 2010s.[10]


>The city of Orlando, FL enacted an ordinance prohibiting the serving of food to more than a specified number[how many?] of people without a permit.[11] In the fall of 2007, Eric Montanez of Orlando's FNB was charged with violating Orlando's city ordinance. On October 10, 2007, Montanez was acquitted by a jury of the charge.[12][13] FNB along with a church for the homeless (First Vagabonds Church of God) sued the city[11] on the grounds that their food service is covered under the first amendment as a part of protected political speech and religious activity. The groups won the lawsuit and the city ordinance was overturned. The city of Orlando appealed to the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals and subsequently won.[11] On August 31, 2010, the 11th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals threw out the decision, barring Orlando from enforcing the ordinance until another hearing before a 10-judge panel could take place.[11]


>In May 2008, local business owners attempted to stop the Kitchener, Ontario, FNB group from serving meals in a highly-visible downtown location,[14] describing the group as "supporting meat-free diets, anti-capitalism, and an end to Canada's military intervention in Afghanistan."[15]


>In April 2009, the city of Middletown, Connecticut, issued a cease-and-desist order to the local chapter of FNB. Prior to the order, the city health inspector cited the organization for distributing food without a license. In August 2009, the chapter began operating through a licensed kitchen provided by the Middletown First Church of Christ Congregational as state hearings into the matter were held.[16]


>The most widely publicized restrictions on food sharing involving FNB were the 2011 feeding bans in Florida. Similar laws have been enacted in other jurisdictions, including Philadelphia[17] and Houston.[18]


>An ordinance in Sarasota FL currently requires gatherings of 75 or more people to obtain a special event permit. Local residents are currently petitioning to reduce that number to 12, as well as to require feeders to obtain the same permit necessary for people who sell goods in public places (a $150 fee). There have been numerous other ordinances targeting the homeless, including the banning of smoking and removing park benches.[32][33] Since 2009, homeless shelters in Gainesville FL could feed only 130 people at a time, leading to the formation of the Coalition To End The Meal Limit.[34] Two years later, the meal limit and other rules were significantly changed, resulting in a victory for the Coalition to End The Meal Limit.[35]


> In November 2014, the city of Fort Lauderdale, FL enacted a sharing ban.[36] Several Food Not Bombs activists were arrested sharing food and other acts of civil disobedience, for which they received "Civil Liberties Arrest" medals from the Broward County ACLU.[37][38][39] Other FNB activists went on hunger strike against enforcement of the law.[40] A court injunction stopped enforcement of the sharing ban in early December 2014 pending several court cases. On August 22, 2018, the U.S. Court of Appeals for the 11th Circuit ruled that outdoor food sharing by Food Not Bombs was protected under the First Amendment.[41]


DAILY REMINDER THAT AMERICAN PORKIES ARE NOT HUMAN

 No.1203424

>>[deleted post]
Anon please, municipalities deliberately withhold permits like these as a way to break orgs that they don't like, it's not about the money.
As for the business owners, FNB is an explicitly non-violent org and none of them have ever called for violent action against them. It's just porkies being porkies.

 No.1203556

File: 1664744137901.jpg (79.54 KB, 1200x800, notreallyasolution.jpg)

>>[deleted post]
I don't think this is a good advice.

You are making that person trade shelter for ideological appeasement, you will not convince people that way ,you will just train them to say communist phrases in exchange for shelter. You will only get ideological conviction if you can give people the knowledge and the tools to get control over their environment, and autonomy over their lives.

You are not using resources from capitalists, the capitalists are causing homelessness they should feel the resource drain for the resolution of the problem they have caused. If you use your own resources instead of theirs, they will just attempt to profit off you, make you pay for the reproduction of the labor-power of the worker they can exploit. They will even go as far as drive more people into homelessness to compensate for the people you are pulling out of homelessness.

If you however enable homeless people to do squatting in empty finance porky speculative real estate, you will not be subsidizing the reproduction of labor power for capitalism, you will instead create an incentive for capitalists to not drive more people into homelessness.

The capitalists always seek ways to externalize costs, they can never be allowed to do that.
You are basically just telling people to adsorb capitalist externalities.

 No.1203744

>>[deleted post]
Keep coping.

 No.1203752

>>[deleted post]
An insult and stating the opposite.
That is all that you have offered.

Given how easy it would be to end virtually all homelessness, in many of the richer countries, where more empty houses exist then homeless people, we can only conclude that it is malicious intent.

 No.1204012

>>[deleted post]
All the attacks you make against me are ad hominem fallacies, that invalidate your argument.
I must assume that you are attacking me because you wish to defend capitalists, because sofar you have failed to attack capitalists.

I am suggesting to use resources of the capitalist class to solve homelessness
You are suggesting to use resources of the working class to solve homelessness
Whose class interests are you defending ?

I'm also not saying you should only attempt to beg the state, other tactics like squatting should also be used.

We live under capitalism, and capitalists control virtually all the surplus that society produces, and that means capitalists are the only people who can bare responsibility for what happens in a society. They are actively choosing to not direct the surplus generated by society in a way that would resolve homelessness. There have been communist countries that had virtually no homelessness while only having a small fraction of the wealth of capitalist countries with lots of homelessness. Some of these countries have more empty houses then homeless people. I have no other option but to interpret this as malice.

With todays technology it costs a little less than 1 month labor-time to build and equip a late soviet era comieblock apartment. These are very spartan by today's standards, but it sure beats homelessness and yet capitalists are choosing not to do it. I can't get over that. It's just not possible. The only explanation that i can come up with is that homeless people are made to suffer on purpose to serve as some kind of example to frighten the rest of society.

 No.1205206

>>1203086
>Currently they are the most oppressed stratum of the working class anywhere in the world
Most don’t work tho, even the ones who do mostly work unproductive jobs.
>seem to have the most revolutionary potential out of everyone else
>revolutionary potential is when le oppressed
That’s not how it works
>aren't bombarded with reactionary propaganda all day everyday
Lmfao i remember a homeless dude calling a black dude an n word for not giving him some change
>they are probably also very receptive to communism and class consciousness
>being class conscious is when le oppressed
You seem to have a very bad grasp of Marxism
>a lot of homeless are just normal people beaten by the housing crisis
I understand that a percentage of those people exist, but you clearly haven’t been outside and interacted with homeless people
>the strategy
Set up guaranteed opportunities for jobs/training and create housing, if they refuse to take those opportunities granted by the party then they’re lumpen class enemies

 No.1254758

There are two types of homeless people. Those who are homeless due to an inconvenience, and those who are homeless because it is their choice.

For the homeless who want to be part of society, I still think that most would not be politically motivated enough to willingly overthrow the government. Perhaps you could start some kind of "permaculture RV park" in public federal land in the middle of nowhere, and form a self-sufficient homeless city of a few hundred individuals until the feds find out about it, and then start a new one somewhere else.

Pic related may help give a general understanding of where the most self-sufficient regions are.

 No.1254770

>Is there a way to organize the homeless?
Organise, sure, but to what end?
>Currently they are the most oppressed stratum of the working class anywhere in the world
Sure
>and so they seem to have the most revolutionary potential out of everyone else
No.
You miss a core part of marxist historical analysis. How can a class make revolution? A class can make revolution if it can wield power against the dominant class of the time.
The bourgoiesie was a revolutionary class because they could wield economic and military power against the nobility. The working class as a whole is revolutionary because they can wield economic and military power against the bourgoiesie, by striking and arming themselves.
The homeless are not revolutionary. They have no economic power (they are not part of the economy) nor can they wield military power (they are few in number and have no resourced).

For a class to be revolutionary it must be able to use its economic power and/or numbers to sustain military power and take control. Slaves, proletarians and the bourgoiesie could, because slaves and proletarians wield economic and possibly military power, and the bourgoiesie could because they held economic power and could supply their own armed forces.
The homeless are not capable of revolution as a (sub)class, because they have no economic power, and they are a tiny minority.

The most oppressed class in society is not neccecarily the revolutionary class. The mentally disabled black trans paraplegics are the most oppressed people in america, but they are not revolutionary, because they cannot as a group wield either economic or military power enough to take over. Similarly, an oppressed *minority* in any country cannot be *the* revolutionary class on its own, for the same exact reason. Classes are revolutionary exactly because they are with more and/or wield more economic power than the current ruling class.


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