>>1310769>What the fuck are you talking about idiot
the retarded dengoids around here who stan china despite being white suburban burgers
Oh yeah. Well, uh, that's probably kinda dumb too. I probably wouldn't become a jingoist over it though.
critical (as opposed to uncritical) support for China against NATO imperialism is not "being a nationalist for china" nor does it justify the contrarian reactionary instinct to become a nationalist for the imperial core countries in order to own the dengoids
>reflexive self loathing
an imperial core prole's hatred of imperial core governance is not self hatred because the imperial core governments do not actually represent their people in any meaningful way
Given your assumptions, these would be possible reasons to support China:
- China has been less violent on the international stage than the US and it's allies
- China has repeatedly and consistently treated third-world countries a lot better than the US and its allies
- many other capitalist states are obviously trying to drum up a conflict with china that would be incredibly destructive, thus making opposing anti-chinese actions and saber rattling an obvious policy
- Revolutionary Defeatism, if your country loses, it becomes easier for "extreme" sentiments (like gommunism) to take poweralso tbh no one here would really tell you to be "nationalist" for China just a bit more critical of global geopolitics, the "Dengists" here are really just larping or overcorrecting their prior beliefs in obvious anti-chinese propaganda
this thread got smacked down hard
it desperately tried to smuggle "imperial core nationalism is good" inside a trojan horse of "dengoids are annoying" and failed miserably
>>1310783>the "Dengists" here are really just larping or overcorrecting their prior beliefs in obvious anti-chinese propaganda
this is true and not pointed out often enough
it never had a chance
I lived in China for 2 years and made a bunch of friends, not everyone here is an american.
>>1310766>China has markets, isn't socialist, let alone communist, they're just LARPing as gommie because thats how they stay in power. We've had east asian posters here who admit viet/china aint gommie and its actually just nationalism. So if you're going to be a nationalist for a capitalist country, why not be nationalist for your own? Is there any fucking reason besides reflexive self loathing, contrarianism and aesthetics that I should become a weirdo dengist and support China over my own nation?
There's none. If anything we should hope & make effort for nuclear holocaust to end everything.>>1310888
Already did. Conclusion: China's bad.
The Chinese communists are saying that they are in the process of building a socialist society. Socialism under construction isn't fully realized socialism, well duh. >>1311020>If anything we should hope & make efforts for nuclear holocaust to end everything.
I must say the Chinese have a much more compelling vision for the future then you.
Anything that fucks with western geopolitical interest is good.
I'd say I support the PRC for the same reason I'm not a fan of the PRC- they do trade deals with everyone.
Yes, they do deals with Saudi Arabia, the Phillipines and Israel, but they also do deals with Bolivia, the DPRK and Cuba. I'd say it's fair to assume that the PRC is officially /OURCAPITALISTS/.
Overall, they're also a massive thorn in the USA's side, and while they're FAR from perfect on foreign policy, i've yet to see an active intent to overthrow a democratically elected country via violent military coup like the Seppos do. To use analogy: China is Jordan Belfort while the USA is Rupert Murdoch- while both are arguably capitalist scumbags, one is significantly worse than the other.
Exactly. say what you will about China, but what they are doing is extremely needed and without them we are lost. They are single handedly industrializing the entire periphery, that was purposefully kept underdeveloped by the imperialist that dominate them even to this day.
If the PRC isn't socialist then that means there are no AES at all and perhaps it would be better if you shot yourself to either end your misery at the lack of global socialist revolution or to save anyone else the trouble of doing it for you when the purges come.
Aussie anon has the smartest opinion on the prc
Putting aside whether they're socialist or capitalist - is china developmental? Is it progressive? Nearly every single statistic shows that yes, it is, very importantly the one on eradication of poverty.
The argument for supporting capitalism in the first place was that it would systemically produce the means for its own abolition through developments in how society ran its own production in such a way that the mechanisms of capitalism would continuously cause it to produce revolutionary moments. The effects of Chinese developments are absolutely forcing changes and contradictions in logic to come to front in the now-global society and marketplace that nearly everyone is a part of whether they want to be or not.
Whether they're captialist or not they certainly seem to be the closest thing the modern day has to what Marx described as being the revolutionary self-abolishing aspect of capitalism. On that level, I don't see why it shouldn't be supported. To be honest I think people here seem to be so used to capitalism run by absolute retards and shitwaffles that they can't imagine how capitalism could be anything but a stagnant hellhole.
Cuba exists you know
so true ak 47 anon which is why park chung hee korea and chiang kai shek taiwan ended up leading to socialism
(there needs to be another factor besides developmentalism hmm maybe being lead by a fully independent party that at least larps as marxist is another factor)
and its isolated and surrounded by sharks. Sure its an example of socialism existing but still isolated and surrounded by sharks while at the same time suffering economic problems from that isolation. Suprised the us hasnt done any more big invasions besides bay of pigs.
The US figures it can just strangle Cuba with economic embargo and astroturfed protests and that it doesn't have to do anything overt like another bay of pigs.
has it been working tho
yes, but slower than they wanted. Cuba has done some market reforms but they haven't had their Gorbachev moment yet.
Personally I'm highly skeptical of the PRC at present but I would certainly say any serious leftist should not oppose them unless they themselves are in a leftist country. Our present focus should be on our own totalitarian Western regimes, such as the USA. The revolution, like charity, begins at home.
Considering Cuba is still standing despite over a decade of embargoes and a botched invasion, as well as the fact that most of the world wants the USA to end its illegal embargo- I'd say it certainly hasn't failed.
well we shall see
lets be honest he would either be somewhere between the neoliberal pinochet, the dirigsme degaulle, or the pseudo fascist park
you ever wonder if america knows the sactions wont collapse cuba but still keep them around so to hurt cuba. And then immediately after point to cuba as an example of seeee SOCIALISM ISNT WORKING
America opposes China and America must be destroyed by any means necessary. Ergo, you should support China, because doing so will help destroy AmeriKKKa.
There, that was easy.
When did I say that development was going to create socialism ex nihilo? You dumb illiterate bastard.
There is no way to "support a country", this is idealist rubbish. You don't advance socialism by "support", you advance it by organising labour unions. Short of this you can most certainly accelerate the money crisis by taking physical gold out of the imperialist banking system. By buying physical precious metals, you only intensify the western debt crisis even further until the imperial core has no tax revenue left to fund its military industrial complex.
> China, meanwhile, has bluntly expressed its opinion on state radio. "The US and Europe have always suppressed the rising price of gold. They intend to weaken gold's function as an international reserve currency. They don't want to see other countries turning to gold reserves instead of the U.S dollar or euro." A Beijing embassy cable released by Wikileaks suggests that the Chinese have a policy of steadily undermining Western currencies by accumulating gold. A follow-up document accused the US of "doing everything possible to prevent China's foreign reserve from buying gold."
> In October 2009, the Chinese government received a shipment of gold. In a normal assay, they drilled out bars and found they were filled with tungsten. The serial numbers traced back to Fort Knox. Over 5000 400oz bars were found to be counterfeit… Chinese officials caught and questioned some of the perpetrators. They traced the crime back to the Clinton administration under Robert Rubin's time at the treasury helm.
> In 2012, China increased its gold imports by 780%. Then it went big, importing 1200 tons by March 2013. The Chinese government only makes an announcement of official gold holdings every four or five years. The numbers of official gold holdings every four or five years. The numbers are not valid - China holds far more gold, likely multiples of the stated amounts. Official holdings are 1054 tons, but they imported 100 tons in one month, and just from their Hong Kong channel.
> In a March 2013 press conference, Vice Governor Yi Gang of the People's Bank of China made a puzzling and contradictory statement. China had no plans to increase its gold reserves from 1054 tons, he said, since it's worried about adverse effects to the gold price. He then seemingly contradicted himself by pointing out China's goldmines produce 400 tons per year and the country imports 500 tons per year.
what my point was that even with the contradictions and revolutionary sentiment caused by chinas development or etc if china was not lead by a "red" party but instead a "nationalist" liberal party then nothing would change.
like for all the side effects chinas rise would cause to global capitalism it would mean nothing if china would have gone neoliberal at this point and would have started taking in the role the us had.
Like imagine a liberal rising china. It would just end up like america did with all its marshall plan european puppet states, east asian "miracle" puppet states, and global "fair" instutitons .Meanwhile, at the same time crushing any world revolutionary sentiment world wid that was caused by the rise of its capitalism.
A development of liberal china would not cause the self destruction of capitalism through that capitalism development side effects. Instead, it would produce an identical hegemony to the previous us one.
so there needs to be another factor like china being lead by for cynics a red larping party and for optimisits a genunine red party
that's ALWAYS the reason for sanctions against socialist countries. It's to sabotage their economic system. Cuba isn't actually a foreign policy threat to the US, it's a threat to the reputation of capitalism itself.
China offers better trade conditions and isn't busy mass-murdering everyone. So for people living outside the US, whether left, right, green or purple or whatever, rooting for your own country usually means rooting for China over the US government. (The US government also has different interests from most people living in the US, so rooting for China can also make sense there.)
No. Your opinion doesn't matter. In many ways the success of Chinese socialism is due to brutish retards like you being unable to comprehend what is at play. Go eat a burger.
if you read mao and came away with the conclusion china is bad you're not worth anyones time
Supporting China make Americans seeth.
>>1310784>imperial core nationalism is good
Why the fuck are dengoids on this board incapable of taking criticism without assuming it's bad faith NAFO bullshit
>>1310888>the READ X response
You either have an argument or you fucking don't
>>1311463>why should I support China over my own country
Being too foolish to understand what you are saying doesn't make you immune to people listening to it and responding.
NTA, jackass. Half of the responses to this thread are what's wrong with this board in a nutshell. For every considered response there's dumb meme "NO U" bullshit
given how retarded the initial arguement is its a valid response because we can assume the orginal poster has no idea what they are talking about
Once again, I'm not OP, jagoff. I think your responses suck, and frankly, bitching about how your unserious responses get responded to in kind just shows your mentality for the typical leftypol narcissism that it is
>OP wants justification for a belief<I DON'T HAVE TO BECAUSE YOOOUUU ARE STUUUUUPID
Do you expect anything less than a "fuck you" to this
>please drip feed me a 20 paragraph analysis on why anon is retarded in my marketplace of ideas anon
how about suck my balls
>>1311481>>1311479>He doesn't know people demanding spoonfeeding via whining is the benchmark for shitty imageboard behavior.>He wants to defend everything OP wrote in the thread but doesn't think any criticisms of OP apply to him.
I'm not asking for an essay, I'm asking for actual considered posts like >>1311309
Fucking dumb meme responses like "hurr durr yuo are LE DUMB" just proves me and everyone else dissatisfied with the state of this place right
>>1311484>oh no more than one person disagrees with me, it must be OP samefagging
Do you want me to post a screencap lacking (you)s, because I will do so
Why don't you write a very thoughtful and considerate response to OP then instead of trying to make me do it by crying on me.
Good fucking lord. Grow up.
>>1311485>Other people fell for the bait which has led to OP talking about how he wants the entire human race to die in nuclear fire, so should you.
They are stupid, and you're actually wrong.
Some people don't deserve water in a desert. This is a cruel fact of life. If you were my son I would kick you out at 18 without warning. In America. With zero money. I would block your phone number.
it was obviously what OP was smuggling in with their question. They even highlighted it red. Their question took not one but two weird rhetorical shifts. The first rhetorical shift was to go from "Why should I support China?" to "Why should I be a Chinese nationalist?" This was a rhetorical shift because critical support is not the same as nationalism. The second rhetorical shift was for OP to ask? "Why should I be a nationalist for the Chinese but not my own country?" So OP asked 3 questions
Question 1: Give me 1 reason to support China (a reasonable question)
Question 2: Why should I be a nationalist for China? (A completely different question)
Question 3: Why shouldn't I be a nationalist for my own country? (A third question totally unrelated to the title.)
So either OP was smuggling in question 3 with question 1, or they were a dumbass who thought these were all the same question.
write up a thoughtful post for OP since I wrote a thoughtful post for you >>1311497
That's fair. I guess I wasn't paying attention.
I personally tend to remain agnostic about China. To be honest, discourse about China on this site annoys the piss out of me. For every reasoned opinion there's ten posts' worth of knee-jerk bullshit that just amounts to meaningless noise.
Congrats on convincing someone to actually read to you the posts you're complaining aren't being taken seriously enough.
Because China still adheres to Marxist-Leninism, still views the world through a Marxist lens (anyone who debates this, go watch any CPC congress or read anything written by Chinese officials) and even if you don't believe either of these things, China is uplifting humanity with a rate of technological progress not seen since the industrial revolution. China will have a base on the moon by the end of the decade, people on Mars in th early 2030s, has more money in R&D than Europe and the US.
Even if you don't like Chinese human rights record or liberal concerns, you should want your politicians to be more like the Chinese, where they actually give a shit about the health of their country and will blast porkie if he steps out of line.
If china loves their people so much why do they surveil them even more than the US and also why they invent social credit
>>1311519>muh country>muh moon>muh technology
who cares? This is not caring for the people.
Soy & back2reddit.
Ah yes, this is a high quality post from the highest quality poster in this thread.
Upvoted, my good sir.
>>1310766>muh m-markets le bad>socialism is when workers own means of production and not when you have a DOTP
Because you are functionally in every way identical to NAFO, you fight on the same side as NAFO
You're so absolutely right, you should stay safe in the United States where what's inside your computer can't be discovered by the cops. That's the most important thing in life - nobody knowing what's inside your computer.
>>1311522>if china is so good then why did they do what the US state media outlets said they did!!!1
Lol. Lmao even
It's a good thing the US would never overstep the legal bounds of surveillance and compromise the firmware of devices across the entire world. That would mean they could find that stuff in your computer. 😬
>>1311533>if you think my posts are bad you are NAFO
Dear fucking god, this site.
Yet its the US which is leading in fusion energy and energy is the thing that will propel socialism more than anything else
Have you considered leaving to somewhere you can shovel garbage into your mouth with zero friction?
You need to go back
Was replying to fusion meme anon
Everybody on this site vomits headlines from either NATO-aligned press or whatever ML sect newsletter they're subscribed to
your whole thing is this thread doesn't put enough slop in your trough you can't just reverse that now
I'm being a dick to you, anon.
Are you even conscious of when you're making things up or does it not matter to you?
I'm expressing fucking exasperation through hyperbole, anon. No, I don't literally fucking mean that. Holy fuck are you this literal-brained?
Jesus fucking christ. This thread is this place's decline in a nutshell.
okay but it seems like your thoughts aren't connecting. could be a minor or very delusional person, not good to interact with. bye
Dude, you are literally the one who doesn't understand what I'm annoyed about in the first place. I'm not bitching about "putting enough slop in my trough," I'm bitching about the quality of conversation
Keep going. You're coming across very worldly.
Just explain what you mean, anon.
if you dont like it you can leave
other people have provided your anal-sis
if you want more
i support both the communist party of the philippines and the communist party of china
there is no contradiction
Based and correct.
The biggest reason to back the PRC is because of its foreign policy regarding the West.
My country America actively invades, coups and destabalizes other countries for profit. No ones saying Chinas perfect but at least they dont behave how we do
Nah, he’s a Keynesian neo-Eisenhowerist
Same, and I'm not being ironic or edgy. 100% do mean it.
>>1311685>The biggest reason to back the PRC is because of its foreign policy regarding the West.
Seems like the worst reason. What about backing the wests military adventures is reason to back the PRC?
>>1311320>In many ways the success of Chinese socialism is due to brutish retards like you being unable to comprehend what is at play
This is sort of true Deng's gambit worked in part, because the Neo-liberals were too arrogant and self assured.>>1311157>I'd say it's fair to assume that the PRC is officially /OURCAPITALISTS/.
I don't know if that's really a correct thing to say, all the things you like about China like their non-discriminating trade policies and their non-interference foreign policy, that wouldn't be possible if capitalists were in control of China.
Foreign policy is easily the PRC's weakest and most opportunistic area though.
My reason is I made it the fuck up.
gommunism by 2050
>>1312011>I like to pretend I live on different planet than Africa does.
Need more of your observations on life please plspls
because i'm anti US
so supporting an imperialist facist nation that's not the US is good
🎣 0 points anon, I bet you'd put weights in your trout if you were in a fishing competition.
Unlike Japan and South Korea, both countries of which have extremely CUCKED foreigbn policies regarding the West.
You dumb uyghur, we're not talking about Japan or Korea, we're talking about China. Why is everyone on this site so even more dumb than usual in the mornings?
>>1310766>they're just LARPing as gommie
Yeah bro a country of 1.4 billion people that is the second biggest economy if the biggest in the world is just "LARPing". >because thats how they stay in power.
Exactly how does that work? What advantage would the government gain to hang up a huge portrait of a 19th century German philosopher? Do you know any Western nation that has a portrait of a Chinese philosopher in their parliament? If it's all just pandering, most Chinese are not Marxist-Leninists, in face many of them are very Western-oriented and consumerist, so why do it? >We've had east asian posters here who admit viet/china aint gommie and its actually just nationalism.
So a nationalist Vietnamese told you China sucks. Golly gee. Also we never had someone who credibly proved that they are from China, in face many anons who made that claim have been exposed as frauds after a few really suspicious posts. Also why does that even matter? If a German tells you the Holocaust never happened then that's true because he's a German?
I'm not saying that it doesn't have any positive aspects, just that it also has no qualms about actively supporting some of the most reactionary regimes in the world, even when they are directly involved in crushing national liberation movements or communist rebels. I don't know how you can look at the last 40 years of Chinese foreign policy and not come to the conclusion that it's not heavily opportunistic.
>>1312269>Yeah bro a country of 1.4 billion people that is the second biggest economy if the biggest in the world is just "LARPing".
Yeah, secong biggest CAPITALIST economy calling intself communist is a pretty good definition of LARP.>What advantage would the government gain to hang up a huge portrait of a 19th century German philosopher?
What advantage for capitalist was in funding social democrats (who supposedly wanted to move away from capitalism)? And yet they were the most funded party in Weimar Republic before Great Depression when many capitalists moved their funds from social-democrats to fascist. Placating working class by promoting class solidarity and reformism instead of revolutionary approach, that's what.>So a nationalist Vietnamese told you China sucks.
No, a communist from the region said they are both not communist. It's funny how you tried to make it about nationalism instead.
nta, dengoids suck ass.
I've studied Chinese foreign policy and everything I've seen was highly impressive and inspiring. You are being sinophobic.
Supplying military drones to the Saudis and UAE to vaporize Yemeni children is stunning and brave.
Cucking America and the petrodollar is certainly no small feat and does more to advance communism than your moral grandstanding. It's geopolitics. There is no room for sympathy in realpolitik.
Ukrainians buy Chinese drones to kill Donetskian children too
Also, remember how Western left was chimping out at the news of China providing Philippines with weaponry (on the behalf of US state dept which is butthurt that they've lost all the allies in the SEA region)? it turned out China has sold some forklifts to some Philippino military base, and that was claimed to be a participation of China in killing Philippino communists
>>1312483>Cucking America and the petrodollar is certainly no small feat and does more to advance communism than your moral grandstanding
do more, but that's up to the CPC central committee. as of now it seems like their foreign policy is merely a few steps better than Imperial Japanese foreign policy.
>>1312483>There is no room for sympathy in realpolitik
do you extend the same courtesy to capitalists or do only communists get a pass?
This cucking of America involves directly taking the side of reaction in these countries, and good relations with these states can only be maintained by continued support for reaction. Geopolitics absent class struggle is just nationalism, and it's opportunism by definition. Besides, the period I mentioned also includes plenty of examples of actively working alongside America to crush communists, so this is a continuation of an established opportunistic trend.
>>1312485>it turned out China has sold some forklifts to some Philippino military base, and that was claimed to be a participation of China in killing Philippino communists
Except that Ansarallah catalogues and publishes the drones they shoot down, and these records include Chinese made drones supplied to the Saudis and Emiratis.
You can seethe and cry about it but China will continue to be successful and prosper. China will continue to make allies all over the world. You have no way of stopping it.
Yeah, I don't believe that. It might as well have been a third party supplying with drones - like how USA was supplying Soviet-made weapons to anti-Soviet guerilla groups, for example
>>1312497>You can seethe and cry about it but China will continue to be successful and prosper.
don't get me wrong, i think the BRI is actually quite ingenious and, if successfully implemented, will bring Central Asia, Middle East, and Africa into a legit new era. but that doesn't mean the CPC is above reproach, and in the process they will inevitably make some mistakes. i believe the treatment of Uyghurs is a mistake, and that more carrots should have been used instead of using it as a testing ground for methods of control.
>>1312510>Yeah, I don't believe that.
>>1312513>the treatment of Uyghurs is a mistake
another one brainwashed by the MSM>>1312507
I thought all the Yemeni freedom fighters starved and got bombed to death? I'm sure China would love to help the Yemenis but they need to be able to help themselves first. China can't fight every battle for you.
Or most of the urbanized/populated regions I should say.
Because I'm not a fucking gullible idiot
>>1312518>another one brainwashed by the MSM
no, i'm of Chinese descent and have visited Xinjiang myself, having seen places from Urumqi to smaller towns. there were far more terrorist attacks and riots in the 2000's, the result of policies undertaken to finally integrate Xinjiang the way the Japanese tried to integrate Hokkaido. now it's gone far beyond even those prior policies, and is focused on pure brute force. it is entirely short term and betrays the principles of autonomous regions laid out in China's constitution.
>>1312519>Rebels control the population centers>random whoevers with "international" backing control the oil
So they don't need any help. I'm happy for them.
>>1312513>i believe the treatment of Uyghurs is a mistake
So, translate this somehow to your language https://cyberleninka.ru/article/n/lesnoy-eksport-sssr-v-kontse-1920-h-nachale-1930-h-gg-i-konkurentsiya-na-evropeyskom-rynke/viewer
And read about how the entire Gulag myth arose as a result of USSR and Finland/Sweden competing for European wood market. The accusal of an enemy of using forced labor, and then sanctioning the enemy over it - not out of moral reasons, mind you, but because it's considered dumping the market - is the one of the oldest tricks in the book.
Entire Uyghur/Xinjiang bullshit is JUST THAT - the new Gulag myth that exists solely to put sanctions on China's cotton, clothes and whatever else is produced in Xinjiang. There were MANY investigations into Xinjiang allowed by China, similar to how wood industry's experts were visiting USSR's Gulags in 1920-30s, and NOBODY found any traces of forced unpaid labor.
Deal with it. You fell for anticommunist propaganda once more
i didn't even mention gulags or camps, the levels of surveillance, checkpoints, constant presence of security forces in the form of PAP patrols and IFVs on the streets is too heavy handed.
you are reading what you want to read because you don't really understand.
Chinese arms sales to Saudi Arabia and the UAE aren't exactly a secret Anon. Chinese media even reports on it.https://english.news.cn/20220307/3919bbd373d048d78c66c9eb7b9f1350/c.html
you dumb fucking bastard, again i didn't mention camps. i cannot report on that because the evidence is too suspect and driven by geopolitical interests. what is undeniable, however, is that the CPC central committee has decided that Xinjiang is a hotbed of separatism that must be brought into line by force, and mass migration from Han Chinese.
it is an old imperial tactic that the Ming or Qing imperial courts would have used. again, you don't understand.
Link reports on some military expo with China participating there.
>Founded by Saudi Arabia's General Authority for Military Industries (GAMI), the World Defense Show is set to be held every two years by showcasing the latest technological developments from around the globe.https://www.defensenews.com/opinion/2021/04/23/chinas-surprising-drone-sales-in-the-middle-east/
>And as Beijing and Tehran deepen their relationship, it will be interesting to see if Saudi Arabia and the United Arab Emirates start to think twice about procuring sensitive weapons from China.
It seems like China is trading with everyone>>1312542>what is undeniable, however, is that the CPC central committee has decided that Xinjiang is a hotbed of separatism that must be brought into line by force, and mass migration from Han Chinese.
Oh? Any official statements from CPC that say this, lmao? It always amazed me how Westoids, even fascists, have to execute a massive propaganda campaign for such actions, they have justify it somehow, but commies? Ohhh, they can silently murder millions of their citizens, and nobody would know about this for half a century! Fucking cheaters, not only they ditch the requirements for a button, but also they don't experience any negatives from pressing it! Fascoids malding at the injustice
They do justify it with the events I mentioned in >>1312526
. Some highlights from https://www.globaltimes.cn/page/202107/1228464.shtml:
>The news report did not specify when and where those anti-terrorism missions were conducted, but official reports show that domestic security situation in Xinjiang has greatly improved, after the deadly riots in 2009. >At a ceremony held by the Central Military Commission (CMC) in Beijing on July 5, President Xi Jinping, also chairman of the CMC, presented an honorary flag to representatives of the squadron.>Xi asked the entire armed forces to learn from the squadron, consolidate the political foundation of firmly obeying the Party's orders and following the Party's lead, develop a strong ability to defeat enemies, foster bravery, promote the revolutionary spirit, and fearlessly charge ahead despite any difficulties.>Since 2014, the PAP has assisted the government of Xinjiang Uygur Autonomous Region in taking out 1,588 violent terrorist gangs. They have managed to capture 12,995 terrorists, according to a white paper titled China's National Defense in the New Era in 2019.
Forgot this telling snippet, where a riot cop was lauded for straight up shooting multiple rioters with knives:>The report by the PAP force newspaper revealed that Wu Jiao, a member of the team, had once defeated six rioters by himself during an operation in 2014. A group of terrorists set up roadblocks, smashed and burned passing vehicles, hacked and killed innocent people in the city. Wu successfully shot six terrorists when he encountered them in a mission.
So, what you are posting is, China is fighting terrorists in Xinjiang, and that's a bad thing and an oppression of Xinjiang. That is ridiculous, obviously Uyghurs are better off under democratic rule of CPC instead of fundamentalist international terrorists
And that China is supposedly settling Xinjiang with Han? Despite the fact that Han living there are the result of migrations under Ming and 1910-1950 period? Yeah, also wrong
And then there's the forced labor accusal, which isn't true.
On every point, you are wrong. Why do you continue believing this nonsense?
I don't fully disagree, but you are veering close to Zionist justifications for their treatment of Palestinians. If "East Turkestan" was somehow independent, it would immediately become Erdogan's proxy state and the easternmost province of the neo-Turkic empire. But that doesn't change the fact that the CPC's current policy on Xinjiang can only succeed if Uyghurs are completely displaced and subjugated as a people, and will end up like the Ainu in Japan.
You have no retort to this because you simply do not understand.
>>1312574>But that doesn't change the fact that the CPC's current policy on Xinjiang can only succeed if Uyghurs are completely displaced and subjugated as a people, and will end up like the Ainu in Japan.
No, current CPC policy will succeed because they continuously improve living conditions of Uyghurs. There's no need for displacement or subjugation, like there was no need for those in USSR's national republics.
Oh noes, China protects Uyghurs from oh-so-successful fundamentalist international terrorists! Surely Uyghurs themselves would rather live under terrorists' and bandits' leadership rather than CPC - which gives them full on representation
DOTP overlaps with and leads to socialism/communism. Just achieving a DOTP is not socialism in and of itself.
You mean the centre of majority of all transglobal capitalist companies production and that has economic free zones isn't socialist? Shocker.
>>1312473>Yeah, secong biggest CAPITALIST economy<implying
At best they are state capitalist and the bourgeosie is not in power. All land is publicly owned. Variable capital exceeds constant capital (unlike any other economy). Enterprises are run by worker councils.>What advantage for capitalist was in funding social democrats
Who funded the early social democrats? The SPD only got funding once they completely sold out after 1919. Hell, the Bolsheviks got more funding because of their opposition to the Tsar.>No, a communist from the region said they are both not communist.
Resident Viet poster is very nationalistic, come on.
Don't blame the OP because you're too stupid to make your own point
how are workers just going to seize power?
Since the US is the only state keeping most of global trade going any political positions that weaken it are to the benefit of the international working class. This could be achieved in enumerable ways, including entryism.
>>1310766>Give me one reason to support china
They're not the USA.
Probably less of chance of a revolution in China than the US, purely due to the amount of surveillance
lel you probably read Vice and the Mozilla news stories uncritically. Setting aside the obvious fact the firewall is saving them from loads of cringe posts, saving their parents from worrying about their kids getting addicted to porn, saving us from them then spending years complaining about it and posting about semen retention, and the firewall went up in the first place following a massive riot by terrorist groups organized online that injured 1900 people and killed about 1/10th that, etc., posting has huge political reverberations in China, the likes of which could never be seen where you live.
You Comcast bad, sopa pipa internet freedom bandwagon faggots probably consider yourselves more free than Chinese posters who can shame the govt into bringing Lenovo to heel legally https://redsails.org/this-is-a-great-struggle/
but where are your results?
Internet and computer freedom are not liberation anon. That's I wasn't surprised when beloved FOSS icon Richard Stallman backed up his colleague for saying Epstein did nothing wrong in a public email thread with all his students in it. These people think they should be allowed to look at child porn (trust me if they think child prostitution isn't criminal they do) and talk about it openly online and the idea that the Chinese govt or any force could put a stop to that practice horrifies them because their politics are centered around the idea of "I get to do whatever I want on the computer"
Also you are not having less surveillance done on you in the US than in China, that's retarded. Your local police department can get a 3rd party contractor to legally buy all your information, internet history, location habits, and the intelligence services of the US sell spyware to the entire world. Cops can open your phone and make a pdf document with a summary of all its contents, and im sure there are better tools since I heard of that almost 10 years ago!
t. Larper/even worse visitor
>>1313141> Setting aside the obvious fact the firewall is saving them from loads of cringe posts.
Great Cringe Firewall big if true.
>Give me one reason to support china
Productive forces line go up, simple as
>>1313141>"I get to do whatever I want on the computer"
Ah yes, the case of "I want to shittalk on the internet but not get hit into the face"
Amazon is developing their own Starlink to topple the Chinese government with satellite tv and memes. Plenty of Indian neckbeards made a living off developing Alexa even though it's completely useless and nobody wants it. You should go work for them.
even yugo market socialist enterprises were technically state owned anon.
It is not accurate to say that China is not socialist or communist. While China has made significant economic reforms in recent decades, including the introduction of market forces into its economy, it is still a socialist country that considers itself to be guided by Marxist-Leninist principles. The Chinese Communist Party is the ruling party in China and the country's constitution states that it is based on the principles of socialism.
However, it is important to recognize that different countries may have different interpretations of socialism and communism, and that no country is a perfect realization of these ideologies. All countries, including China, have their own unique histories, cultural traditions, and political systems, and it is important to consider these factors when evaluating a country's political and economic system.
Ultimately, the decision of whether or not to support a particular country or political system is a personal one that depends on an individual's values and beliefs. It is not productive to engage in insults or name-calling, and it is important to approach these discussions with respect and an open mind.
China is a country with a complex history and a diverse political system. While it has a long tradition of socialist thought and has been governed by a communist party since the late 1940s, it is not a socialist or communist country in the strict sense of those terms.
China's government is led by the Communist Party of China, which came to power in 1949 after defeating the Nationalist government in the Chinese Civil War. However, the party has pursued a number of economic and political policies that are not consistent with traditional socialist or communist ideology.
One key reason for this is that China has embraced a mixed economy, with both state-owned enterprises and private businesses operating within its borders. This is a departure from the traditional socialist model, which calls for the public ownership and control of the means of production.
Overall, while China has a long tradition of socialist thought and is governed by a communist party, its political and economic system is not fully socialist or communist in the traditional sense of those terms.
Guess I support America now because China is not full communism.
At least america doesnt pretend to be socialist when its not
It is true that China actually is an atomizong hellscape that leaves its own people out to dry, but it's also true that EVERYTHING liberals will tell you about China is built off of forged evidence from intelligence community pushed shill "journalists" who want you to hate them.
I show support for China to make fun of pozzed losers not because Xi is actually cool.
>>1313403>I show support for China to make fun of pozzed losers
Most mature lefttpol user.
what does that have to do with China? its leadership doesnt want to achieve socialism, they're neoliberals who are making money off capitalism and shilling it to retarded westerner dengist teens as muh 1000 year NEP.
>>1313433> its leadership doesnt want to achieve socialism,
Prove it.> they're neoliberals who are making money off capitalism
Prove it.>shilling it to retarded westerner dengist teens as muh 1000 year NEP.
When I was young and stupid I talked about china the way you do. now that I'm older and better understand how world imperialism put them in the situation they're in today, I no longer childishly dismiss them as capitalists in red paint. I find it is actually western teenagers who are the quickest to denounce China as "just like America."
Critical support for American struggle against Chinese capitalism.
Would American leftists jerkoff to an image of powerless USA sodomized by foreign imperialists?
>Third world nation
t. retarded dengist teen
Your country is in irreversible decline, you have no social mobility, negative bitches. China is bringing the entire developing world into the current century, something which has been actively sabotaged at every turn by the US to maintain their unipolar world system.
China's growth is not based on military of financial conquest & extraction from other nations. Nobody cares about them trading with states that happen to have an infestation of baby-boiling terrorists nobody likes and have nothing to offer anyone but scolding which tends to run parallel to US rhetoric.
You've never heard of the Nairobi-Mombasa railway, you wouldn't care the new one has viaducts tall enough to accommodate giraffes, while the century-old rail it replaced regularly donkeytraingif'd wandering wildlife leading to huge delays. You don't care about the Kunming-Singapore railway but I bet you've been waiting decades for the slightest change in your local transit situation.
Why don't you get in your car, drive thirty minutes to get a six pack, listen to some nice tunes while you drink it, then blow your brains out?
Since you are not intending to be a world power, or even a member of your community any time soon, you can afford to take a symbolic stand against every single government you think is stinky. You don't have anyone to feed or protect, and will die alone.
There is a very good reason why people assume that English-language criticism of China is coming from the U.S., Europe, Canada, Australia, anywhere that isn't "the jungle" as Jossep Borrel put it. You are the only people who don't benefit from China's rise, but all you can do about it is weep and gnash your teeth online.
When you discover that you're spouting the same lies as Poles who spend all day spamming Putler memes, it doesn't trigger any self-reflection. You think everyone else is wrong for not associating your sage wisdom with your fringe online larp.
nice ad hom bro but state capitalism still isn't socialist. hell it's better than the west anyday, but not socialism.
You need to go back "bro"
you need to get an ideology other than meme anti imperialism
I don’t rally behind PRC or anything, but I will always defend them from the horde of burger propaganda.
I truly don’t care about China much at all, but if I were to take a passive or negative stance on it when prompted, it would do nothing but reinforce and normalize the retarded shit boogies come up with and spread.
So you're illiterate?
No, lower costs of production due to better developed productive forces. Better automated/optimized society can pay workers less while providing the same amount of goods to them cheaper and being able to export those goods as well because they are outcompeting Westoid crap due to price and quality
First World is USA (USSR was First World too), Second World is Europe and Japan i.e. vassal states, Third World are the rest. China is Third World, yeah
>>1311525>Back to reddit
the most braindead and virulently sinophobic place on the internet run by literal western glowies manufacturing consent for WW3
That's just Westoids trying to reinterpret Left's classification to confuse things - just like with classes. Mao's model perfectly explain present day politics - US makes it's vassals suffer in order to attack the Third World
i mean the west came up with the model in the first place. the "three worlds" thing was first mentioned in 1952 by a Frenchman named Alfred Sauvy. He was comparing the 3 worlds of the Cold War to the 3 estates of pre-revolutionary france. Sauvy's focus was on the alignment. 1st world was the capitalist countries, 2nd world was the communist countries, 3rd world was the non-aligned countries. That is the origin of these terms in cold war discourse. You can call that analysis retarded, and I'd agree, but it's not a "reinterpretation" of anything "the left" has said, it was merely a western frenchman's interpretation of alignment and balance of power after WW2, which stuck.
Well, the more you know
Nope Chine is considered 2nd world, 3rd was non-aligned maybe your confusing China with Vietnam? Maybe you are using 3rd world in the American vernacular for 'shithole counties'?
Honestly it's a shit classification system for legitimate retards anyway, best to simply not use it.
First second thrid world is outdated.
Today, it's the jungle and the garden.
and the garden is plastic
a lot of americans do benefit from the rise of china. china building all these factories has created loads of jobs for the petite bourgioise class as managers and logistics oversight.
It’s no where near like what you believe it is actually like. You don’t understanding the history of the Uyghurs at all.
The party being representative of their base, ultimately the working class, is generally supported by most data/statistics about party approval in China, even by Western sources; in short, the Chinese people broadly feel that their government does have their interests in mind and as their primary tendency to whom they hold themselves accountable.
In that, China suppresses capitalist tendencies and influences, profit has undergone its abolition through public reinvestment from labor (thus negating private holding), while maintaining about half of their economy is in the public sphere/under public ownership (ie under mass political guidance from and by the public, or at least representative of such), inclusive of all major industry and property. Economic structures existing in the supersedence of the old structure is nothing new, markets were in feudalism, markets were in capitalism, markets will likely continue until the abolition of total economic forms if we're following the transformation of the substructure and its relations, although under each prior system the dynamics of market forces have changed and will continue to (till their erosion or otherwise a transformation)
An economy social in nature can allow for markets, all communist states have had markets, I don't really see why this would be a problem in the establishment of socialism in the case of China but wouldn't be considered so for say Cuba or the Soviet Union, who also had market forces, albeit on a localized scale.
It just sounds like you don't like China, I'm not the #1 China guy or whatever but they do exist in accordance with and within the class dynamics outlined as being a proletarian state, explicitly so as well. To your point though, yes, Mao and Deng are still debated in China ofc but it would be weird to call one more socialist than the other, in other words "PURE IDEOLOGY" *sniff*, what really matters is the transformativity society undergoes for its own ends, and it being social in nature is apparent in China
>>1314425>He thinks they use default emojis on fbi.gov
Those swine have no appreciation for the wealth of weird shit already in the emoji keyboard.
Those emojis are all Unicode actually: 😭😂📖😫😭😭
Proletarian and Fascist Italy suppresses capitalist tendencies and influences, profit has undergone its abolition through public reinvestment from labor (thus negating devise class conflict), while maintaining about half of her economy in the public sphere/under public ownership (ie under political guidance from fascist elites and corporate organs), inclusive of all major industry and property. Economic structures existing in the supersedence of the old structure is nothing new, markets were in feudalism, markets were in capitalism, markets will persist in the new corporate economy which supersedes both socialism and liberalism.
It just sounds like you don't like Fascist Italy, I'm not the #1 Fascist Italy guy or whatever but they do exist in accordance with and within the class dynamics outlined as being a proletarian state, explicitly so as well.
They stabbed a lot of people, anon. That officer is a goddamn hero. You're really telling on yourself here. Rot in hell. I can't believe you didn't even bother to look up how brutal that terrorist attack was. Worthless psycho.
Amerikkkans when cops allow a random chinlet to execute children while sitting around: I CAN REFORM THIS.
Amerikkkans when jihadists cut nearly twelve dozen innocent people open then commit suicide by cop: Yet another betrayal of workers by the Chinese Communist Party. 😫🥺😱
BUT BUTTT…..MUSSOLINI WAS A COMMUNIST
this is retarded, imperial core WW2 italy and china are not comparable
wow you did ctrl+f without checking whether the statements were still true. very impressive
This schizo again
Even if you don't support China you should never love a western/west afilliated state for following reasons :
Brutal colonialism, Stealing of third world resources, Endless wars, Military industrial complex dominated economics, school shootings and much more
Yeah, M u s s o l i n i was actually more left wing
Not what corporatism means lmao
Or maybe you prefer the term dirigisme
is it a revisionist interpretation of marx? you cant read the subtitles since they are not translated so i dont know how you can judge the quality of their marxist analysis.
>give me one (1) reason to support china
fuck all of you
>So if you're going to be a nationalist for a capitalist country, why not be nationalist for your own?
Not a chinaboo, but the nationalism here is every other possible nationalism other than one of our own. It goes towards America, Germany/EU, Russia, Israel, the Nordics, the west, the white race, Christendom, but not for us even when a lot of people claim to be nationalistic our way.
All European nations are this way because there's no European nationality left by itself that isn't for the purpose of servicing the conqueror. Poles are just as Polish as for example the Spanish. Nation-states are dead and power blocs are reality. It's given me a national pessimism, because true European nationalisms were given the sword centuries ago.
Engaging in class war, at the behest of the aristocrats and the bourgeoisie, within the given territories that the ruling class had its interest in is fundamentally anti-proletarian. The Italian mode of production was this dictatorship of capital, or as you put it the rule by the “fascist elites” (aristocrats and old guard) and the “corporate organs” (the bourgeoisie, in the abstract sense). This ruling class is only self-sustaining based on its necessitation by the mode of production itself and its concurrent class alignment (the dictatorship of a aristocratic-bourgeois coalition)
Even if I were to grant the abolition of “labor value” in its surplus, profit exists as the static essence of capital by which labor value is one derivative, profit itself is “pure form”, for Marx. I don't think that there's any evidence of labor-value being abolished in Italy, especially if it were reinvested into the private use of arms rather than socializing it, which would then maintain itself as a form of extracted value anyway
Nor does a “corporate economy” supersede socialism; corporatization was already an ongoing phenomenon since the post-mercantile era within Europe.
Fundamentally, fascist Italy was a dictatorship of the capital in the most absolute sense and wholly anti-proletarian (they literally fought in a bourgeois coalition against the Soviet Union, for instance), and who waged war on people against people, worker against worker, for the sake of the Italian deep-state, entrenched old guard aristocrats, and capitalists.
‘China savior syndrome’ is unironically something a fed would say.
>Chinese savior syndrome
what fucking reddit terminology is this
a condition in which an online leftist finds salvation from the current world order in an international intervention conducted by the People's Republic of China
Chinese-sponsored revolution in one's own country, getting one's own country to ally with China diplomatically, Chinese invasion, China dropping nukes, China deleting the opponents to communism could be such ways
or at least I've seen people wish for some of these
nice meme fellow leftist
Seems like schizo projection. My country is other side of the planet and has nothing to do with them but I support China 100% because they can and will fuck Americans up.
Psychobabble can't save you from Michael Hudson
The problem with a leftist image board is that it is easy for glowies to use it. However, we can figure out if they’re glowies based on their tendency to behave like smug Redditors
how is this smug calarts OP still going
yeah, i can read it. it says ur mom gae
>>1323972>people who don't know what calarts is saying calarts again
LARP opsec spook corporatism Dunning-Kruger bait!1
china doesnt care about opposing imperialist or even america other than when America stands in china's self interest i.e. Taiwan and trade with third countries
so true sis, fuck 'jack spammers and 'plier fans<we
The thing is China doesn't need to intervene anywhere. The West was able maintain social peace against the destructive tendencies of capitalist by ruling over and leeching off the Rest. The West has always been intervening in others' affairs and the only thing China has to do is to maintain its sovereignty against Western attacks and not let themselves or other periphery countries become the subjects of national exploitation through quid-pro-quo economic relationships. If there is no periphery to exploit, then imperialism falls apart and as a consequence the long-standing social peace will fall apart within the Western metropolis which in turn will lead to the resumption of class struggle, something that is in the interest of communists.
The chad histmat
Fascist Italy was imperialist and colonialist and allied with nazi Germany in a genocidal war against the USSR. Venezuela is not imperialist or colonialist or genocidal. It is important to look at geopolitics and not just the ratio of private sector to public sector
Those are only definitions for people who hardly understand the bare minimum
but the US got kicked out of Iraq and Afghanistan
>>1313458>powerless USA sodomized by foreign imperialists?
Based. Those occupiers however wouldn't be called imperialists because they do save the people and their intents do not represent such countries’ bourgeoisie. Take for example China liberating Pacific TIme Zone states; Xi would then provide free healthcare and transport to the locals, all while disallowing Tencent and Alibaba from interfering in their affairs. Unlike the US where it allows its allies to destroy the Third World, one example being car-and-motorcycle-ridden Indonesia
just read The German Ideology, communism is the proletarian movement itself out of real class relations, not a superimposed society (eg: "when everything is classless, etc", no one says this - it's pure impositional ideology and does not have material precedence to claim it as being a real form, it's ultimately idealist in nature) the process of sublating and overcoming (or negating) antagonisms through class is the formative catalyst in development (being communism and labor its universal property), socialism is its lower phase when the superstructural relations begin to reflect the proletarianization which had occurred at a more fundamental level (again, via sublation). Socialism isn't an ideology, nor is communism, they are living, real, instances of human phenomenon. again this is for Marx, but other leftoids disagree, tldr read hegel and modern chinese thinkers, communism has been dead in the west since stalin’s death
saw this a week late. lol'd even though you're making fun of me. good job
isnt aussie also cucked to the US though?
The german ideology is early Marx, prior to the epistemic break. Only Critique of the Gotha programme and a few parts of Capital are truly free of his latent early hegelianism
BEING - China is Socialist
NOTHING - Negation, China is not Socialist
BECOMING - Sublation, China is becoming Socialist
Not sure about the critique of the gotha program (i'd have to go back and check) but even within Capital the ascent-form and phenomenal reciprocity (internal contradiction) are basically straight out of Hegel, when/where did Marx have an epistemic break? The SPD and other left parties were non Hegelian from whom Marx "broke" (assuming they were ever connected)
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