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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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File: 1673490623492.jpg (79.57 KB, 500x500, 1602367343167.jpg)

 No.1330597[View All]

Multipolarity is not something one should be for or against, because it really isn't something you can attach yourself to like some camp or some ideology.

Multipolarity, as an existent term, is just a signifier of the current global economic conditions of the world in regards to the current dominant powers that own and transfer capital whether within their borders or without. What it means as a definition is just that instead of a singular global hegemon influencing global affairs or a dual power struggle between two superpowers, it is a condition in which the world is divided amongst multiple powers influencing global affairs/capital/the market.

To be for or against it is the equivalent of going out in the street and declaring yourself as being pro-summer or anti-winterists. Its silly. Its just like the changing of seasons and people have to adapt to it. When its freezing outside, you change into something warmer. But even the hardiest winter clothing is not going to keep one warm against the coldest winter, and we are heading into a long hellish winter. A capitalist winter twilight.

One thing many who espouse the concept of multipolarism (attaching oneself to multipolarity as if it is an ideology) tend to forget (or just outright refuse to acknowledge) that this new multipolar world we are heading towards is a capitalist-centric multipolarity. History has shown that last time this world had gone through a capitalist-led multipolar age, it had unleashed two world wars and countless dead. This not to say that having a unipolar or bipolar world is any better. During the Cold War the champion of capitalist hegemony, the United States, through proxy wars as well as actual wars, coups, and assassinations/subterfuge helped/directly committed atrocities and war-crimes that make WWII pale in comparison. During the unipolar reign of neoliberalism after the USSR fell, the atrocities did not stop, it only continued. Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, the list goes on and continues to this day. All to reinforce capitalism and sustain imperialist expanse.

This is why one cannot attach themselves to a concept of multipolarity, or unipolarity, or bipolarity. The problem is not how many powers there are in the world. The problem is the global economic system that those powers exist under. Capitalism. Capitalism breeds competition. Nations or precisely the national bourgeoise of that nation compete for capital. They do not grow together in peace under capitalism as many proponents of multipolarism tend to espouse as a benefit of multipolarity. They head towards conflict, because capitalism breeds conflict. There is no multipolar peace under capitalism, only the prelude to war and destruction as nations compete for power.

Multipolarism does not care for the working class of those nations. It is just a changing of task masters. Nothing more, nothing less. Any boon for the workers borne from breaking away from the global hegemon is the equivalent of a heavy boot slightly being let off their collective necks. The fact is that they are still under the boot of their national oppressors. It is up to them and we as socialists to use that slight aside to break free from under the weight of that boot.

Many Multipolarists love to reference the how many of these budding capitalist nations have seemingly good standings with the few socialist nations of this world most predominantly Cuba and the DPRK as if that is a justification that multipolarity is a net positive. They tend to forget completely the this does not wash away the fact these countries are still capitalist and oppress their own working class. If anything this does not justify multipolarity at all, it only reinforces that we still currently exist under a unipolar hegemony front-manned by the United States. This is because most of these countries are aligned due to the economic pressure (sanctions and blockades) put forth by the United States as well as the EU NATO-bloc (which is by in large an extension of American power). When that pressure eventually fades only time will tell if that alignment of those interests between worker-led nations and the nations run by power-hungry capitalists continue or (as history has shown us many times) inevitably clash.

And what of the old lion in the room? The United States. It is a waning power there is no doubt of it. Mulitpolarists love to frame their idealist multipolar world as one in which the United States is practically a nonentity. That there will be new orders that rise in its stead. That same United States that has military bases all across the globe will somehow just cease to be a relevant thing. Or if anything it will turn a new leaf and just accept the changing of seasons. Iridescent foolishness. Capitalism breeds conflict and the United States has sustained itself off conflict, colonialism, and imperialism from its inception. The capitalists who run that country will be anything but docile when their grip on global power is threatened.
We see it today with the arming of Ukraine and the powder keg that is Taiwan. Global war is brewing, a prelude to the birth of a new multipolar world. If we even survive to see it.

And all for what I ask you? Another capitalist-led world built on the ruins of the last? This is not even capitalist realism at this point. It is just capitalist reincarnation. A continual recycling of the capitalist system reinventing itself at the expense of everything; our entire existence put to flame just to try and keep the old ways alive. That is the multipolar world we are heading towards. But it doesn't have to be that way.

The global workers movement has been gutted and kept down for decades especially in the west. This has led many to adopt a form a campism to cope with lack of a united global movement. Anti-americanism, eastern/western dichotomy, and multipolarism are offshoots of this void. It allows one to feel that are apart of something bigger than themselves that, in their minds, can lead to something different. A capitalist multipolar world will not change or fix the problems that affect this world (which are born from capitalism) only the amount of hands that hold power in it (hands which are almost all attached to the arms of each respective nation's capitalist class).

This does not mean there is no global proletariat or that workers movements have gone extinct. Capitalism proletarianizes the populace. Workers currently toil in hellish conditions all around the globe and they are aware of their position. They know they are mistreated. They are striking and protesting for better conditions all around the global south. Workers are fighting against their oppressors. There is class consciousness among the working class. We must push towards socialism. Not some distant idealist dream of a multipolar world which only continues the corrupt system of the past. We should not want a multipolar world in the yolk of capitalism. We must demand and bring forth a socialist world run by the workers not the national capitalist class of warring nations.

Global polarity feels like the changing of seasons and it seems we are heading towards a deadly winter. The best winter clothing may not protect one, but if we all get together for warmth, we'll persevere. And, if there is enough organization, maybe, just maybe, we'll realize that we are actually not in some freezing wasteland and at the mercy of the elements. We are actually Inside a constructed economic bubble (or cave if you prefer Plato) and the capitalists set the AC on way too fucking high and its about time we set the temperature ourselves or better yet just pop the bubble (or leave the cave).
452 posts and 91 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1339909

>>1339907
Your future predictions really have no bearing on the current reality of the US position in the world.

 No.1339912

>>1339909
Anyone that thinks the Chinese/Russian Imperialists are in a stronger position then the U$ Imperialists is really huffing a lot of Copium, 😂🤣!

 No.1339914

>>1339909
By the way, what do you think of the video from Marxist Paul I linked above https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PTmnVJxrsAQ , 🤔?

 No.1339918

>>1339912
This is so delusional 🙄🙄🙄🙄🙄 just to pick a random dumb thing out, China is helping the entire world switch to green energy and infrastructure that resists climate change

 No.1339920

>>1339914
undialectical. imperialism is not a checklist it is a stage of capitalism. lenins five points were descriptive of imperialism in his time not an eternal law.

title is bait and switching "russia is NOT Anti-Imperialist" with "russia IS imperialist". russian expansion is not driven by the internal contradictions of capitalism, like it is in imperialism. by contrast, imperialist expansion is driven by necessity when monopoly technological development is completed and there is no room for investment opportunities which forces expansion into new markets of lower development. the rate of return simply doesn't exist when there is nothing to build or improve and all resources in a given territory are already developed to the fullest extent.

 No.1339924

V*ush will be president one day.

 No.1339928

>>1339924
Oh wow, another pedo president?

 No.1339929

>>1339920
i really don't know how people can read lenin and not understand this. monopoly and imperialism are directly tied to technology and capitalist development. when one capitalist has a steam engine and another does not, the other buys a steam engine or is eventually bought out by someone who does have a steam engine. the economy is like a war of attrition and industries consolidate into monopolies over time by this mechanism, with the capitalists that have higher technology over time undercutting prices on their competitors and then expanding until eventually one person owns everything in the country. then they go from steam to internal combustion and on to nuclear or whatever and when everything under there control is at the highest level of technological development the rate of profit drops to zero and they have to expand into another countries territory in order to maintain their quarterly portfolio.

>Advancing this definition of imperialism brings us into complete contradiction to K. Kautsky,

<who refuses to regard imperialism as a “phase of capitalism” and defines it as a policy

imperialism IS NOT a policy or a set of policies or a checklist or when big country is mean to small country it is a historical and materialist necessity of actually existing capitalism

 No.1339935

>>1339373
nah gowans is absolutely cringe

the way the USA acquires oil for domestic use is of little importance, what really matters is the global hydrocarbon trade which you can/could only conduct in dollars

the deals made with the gulf states are the most important factor behind the endurance of the dollar hegemony, not fracking within the US itself which is only possible because of dollar hegemony in the first place

 No.1339957

>>1339935
Yea i agree that's why i called that other guy "blog schizo"

 No.1340121

>>1339935
>the way the USA acquires oil for domestic use is of little importance
tell that to the Syrians

 No.1340187

>>1340121
The claim at first was that the USA is energy self-sufficient (despite achieving this through using an unprofitable and environmentally harmful technology). American imperialism isn't about directly seizing resources, no army in the world is so powerful that it can just keep directly robbing the plethora of resources from rare earth minerals to cash crops that a modern economy requires. The point is to exercise control over a number of key resources (hydrocarbon) and use it to prop up monetary hegemony and then start endlessly printing money and let other countries absorb the inflation. This then allows them to import whatever resources they want, not just oil, effectively draining those countries that still effectively function as extractive colonies.

 No.1340188

Didn't read anything in the thread.
Instead, REDpill me on Burma.

 No.1340200

>>1339893
>delusional
<basic facts are delusion
https://www.yahoo.com/video/us-world-biggest-oil-producer-172500673.html
>The EIA reports that as of 2021, the U.S. produced 18.88 million barrels per day — or about 10 million per day more than no. 2 Saudi Arabia (10.84 million) and no. 3 Russia (10.78 million).

 No.1340210

File: 1674307797125.png (2.01 MB, 3000x6447, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1340188
After a decade or so of quasi-parliamentary rule the military, at risk of losing further political clout, couped the liberal government (which still oversaw the Rohygina genocide that was carried out by the military in the hopes that allowing it would satiate them). Now the traditional liberal bloc is joining up with longtime guerillas and ethnic militias to launch a broad united front against the Junta and is doing surprisingly well. The country is effectively in civil war and while the Junta is still in firm control of the countries, it is starting to shift to phase two of Che's Three Phases of Guerilla warfare. Naturally local communist guerillas, some of which have been at war with the Burmese state since the end of the second world war, support the People's Defence Army (the libs) as a part of a United Front strategy. It helps that like in Vietnam, there are civilian political cadres in Junta territory that support the guerillas through political and civil action, although the main protests have died down now. What comes of all of this is hard to say, the PDA and Ethnic Armies are hardly short of weaponry, some are using lee enfields since burma has basically been a dumping ground for military gear for the last century. There are talks of federalism being on the table, which would be a huge concession from the Bumar liberals towards the ethnic minorities, but if that actually comes to pass remains to be seen.

 No.1340220

>>1340200
The US petro-dollar probably does depend on the Saudis, so the other anon isn't wrong

 No.1340279

>>1340220
it definitely depends on the saudis. they artificially cheapen fuel by flooding the market when the US tells them to. Although, since 2022 they've been bucking US demands and tightening ties with BRICS

 No.1340292

>>1339727
>you cannot get that with ethnic minority grievance politics, if it were possible it would have happened already
Funny considering the CPSA was at its height when it constantly advocated for a black nation in their platform.

 No.1340435

>>1330901
>considering humans can and do affect the climate through their activities, your analogy reveals something that it perhaps didn't intend to.
Its actually addressed in the last paragraph dumbass. We can change the seasons (or AC for that matter). Through actually building a socialist movement or movements.
>Part of this adaptation involves thinking about it differently, which is why there is push back against both those who drink the ideological kool-aid of unipolar imperialist hegemony and it's "civilizing mission" against the imperial periphery as well as those lukewarm ideologues who simply shrug and dismiss everything as "inter imperialist conflict" without any deeper geopolitical analysis.
I am not pushing that train of thought and fuck you for even bringing that shit into this thread. This is one of the reasons dumbasses here have been bitching on and on about how my OP is somehow pro-american hegemony. It is not. I literally (you fucking reference it too) have a whole fucking paragraph condemning the United States of its decades long (even centuries long) atrocities and acknowledging that it is bad and will only get worse as time goes on.
>inter-imperialist conflicts
Yes, that is what fucking happens when capitalists go head to head. It happens under all forms of capitalism whether its a unipolar or multipolar world order. Stop coping.
>Multipolarity is a precursor to a reignition of class struggle in the imperial core
There is already class struggle here, there always have been. And no, multipolarity does not mean class struggle will somehow automatically occur. Jfc, listen to yourself. That is such an idiotic mindset to just wait for the gates of hell to come flying open with flames ready to engulf us all and then out of the fucking blue boom: socialists will bail us all out. MF WE are the socialists, no one is gonna save us, not multipolarists, not china, not the periphery. We need to save ourselves and build movements, not wait for multipolarity to build them for us. WE should be doing more. And if you are doing more. Good job, this critic is not for you then. That is the whole point of my OP.
You know what is way more likely to occur if we do nothing before multipolarity happens? Fascism. As I said before, American capitalism is in crisis. What happens when capitalism is in crisis? Fascism. We can see it growing today and it is only gonna get more fucking ugly and destructive as the US wanes in power. And this is not gonna be bad just for burgers its going to be bad for everyone. So why wait to build and support socialist movements when the biggest threat to socialism is already growing along side the birth of this multipolar world?
>We have reached the point where the USA is trying to overthrow the very same governments it put in place to get rid of socialists.
Ok. Yeah, I know that, its fucking insane bro. Its almost like they don't want to lose their grip on power.
>America wants to replace Putin with people like Navalny.
Shocking that the imperialists want to do that, you're blowing my mind here. What's next you're gonna say the US wants to keep Taiwan within their sphere of influence by any means? Oh wait, I already mentioned this in my OP. Its almost like you're saying bullshit to make a non-argument.
>Multipolarity means the end of unipolar hegemony's ability to do that.
No it fucking doesn't. It just means THEY won't be the ONLY ones WHO do it. You really think Russia doesn't want to install a puppet in Ukraine if they could? You think the United States will just stop trying to coup countries not aligned with American capitalist interests? That's laughable! Hell the US might just invade when push comes to shove especially if its fascists who are in control.
>Like you said, it's an emerging *material condition*, but understanding it is better than simply shrugging it all off as simply inter-imperialist conflict
I'm not shrugging it off and that was never the point of the OP. Multipolarity is complicated. It cannot be all good or all bad. You can pick it apart all you like and analyze it, whatever, that's fine, but all I read in this thread are idiots who are not analyzing it or treating it with any nuance. Its just used as a cope. Also, you keep saying I'm just waving it all off as inter-imperialist conflict. That is far from what I wrote. Capitalist multipolarity is many things, and inter-capitalist conflict is one of those things that are brought about through its existence.
>America slaughtered a million in Iraq during "unipolarity".
Yeah I mentioned Iraq and unipolarity in the OP, perhaps read everything before picking apart my prose like a petty asshole.
>Millions die because of capitalism either way.
Yeah I know, wrote about it below.
>I think people who prefer unipolarity prefer it because they usually live in the imperial core and they perceive it as "more stable."
Yeah well I'm not one of those rubes dumbass, so I don't know what that has anything to do with my thread besides falsely assuming that my thread is about that stupidity. It is not and fuck you for insinuating that.
>When this violence suddenly reaches the imperial core everyone starts whinging about how multipolarity is just the return of the inter-imperialist World War 1 type situation…
When? Wtf are you smoking? When? Its always been here. The violence is held at the collective throats of the American proletariat by the capitalist state for decades. Multipolarity. Bipolarity. Unipolarity. Their terror is all pervasive here. This has nothing to do with multipolarity, most fucking burgers don't even know wtf that is. You are just detracting valid arguments that criticize your own view of multipolarity.
>Reminder though that WW1 gave birth to the USSR and WW2 gave birth to the PRC.
If you think that the rise of those nations were only borne from those respective bloody conflicts alone without it being a whole lot of factors that led to those things to happen you are a fucking idiot. That's ahistorical and deeply twisted. The USSR became a thing because the Bolsheviks had a solid foundation to take power and keep power. Same with Mao. Crediting the rise of the USSR and the PRC to just to those capitalist-created wars rather than the workers and socialist parties who fought against the capitalist war pigs is disgusting and only feeds the lies of anti-communists.
>But you named this thread "Socialism! Not multipolarism." for a reason… am I supposed to forget that because of the rhetorical padding about how bipolarity and unipolarity are also bad?
Here, I'll rename my OP just for you buddy.
Not Multipolarism. Not Bipolarism. Not Unipolarism. Socialism!
How's that? A little long tbh. Like I said maybe read everything before you critic something.
>On the contrary, monopoly capitalism destroys the possibility of competition, and contemporary imperialism no longer takes the form of 19th century gunboat diplomacy which forces development onto the global south.
Ok.
>It instead takes the form of holding development hostage through high interest loans and demands for foreign direct investment, leading to arrested development in those nations which have a unipolar-backed comprador bourgeoisie instead of a traditional national bourgeoisie.
Alright.
>A national bourgeoisie develops the contradictions of capitalism noticed by marx and leads to socialist revolution. A comprador bourgeoisie instead funnels profits to the imperial core, leaving the periphery under-developed, over-exploited, and anemic. a multipolar world would replace comprador bourgeoisie with national bourgeoisie.
Yeah.
>It would also be very dangerous. But it's happening anyway whether defenders of imperialism like it or not.
No shit and that is literally what my OP is stating. Its happening anyway and it is still fucking dangerous. The fact that some dumbasses bank their idealist thinking on something that can lead to more conflicts is very fucking stupid and short-sighted.
>No prominent marxist advocate for multipolarity says multipolarity leads to peace or that it's a cure for everything.
Irrelevant to the point of my post. Because how can you advocate for something that is happening regardless? You can't. Its irrelevant to the tasks at hand which is building socialist movements. You literally just said that the changing conditions are dangerous, so like I said in my OP, why not just advocate for socialism rather than a bourgeoise led multipolar order (which most of them already do, so they are alright in my book)? Especially when things are getting more and more dangerous by the day.
>Wrong. this ignores the geopolitical reality of unipolar imperialism and its economic hitmen.
But it is correct tho. This is a changing of task masters, comprador to national. You said it yourself. They are all capitalists, and they must all be opposed. Simple as that.
>There are important differences between those.
Ok. They must all be opposed in the end.
>A historical example: The CPC aligned with the KMT against the Japanese comparador bourgeoisie for a reason. But the 1940s Chinese equivalent of you would have scolded the CPC for being insufficiently Marxist and declared that the KMT were just as bad as the people running Unit 731, and that the CPC should instead fight a two front war against both simultaneously (and lose).
You are comparing something vastly different from what I am trying to say. I would never say shit like that because one: this isn't fucking WW2 the conditions are entirely different and two: the CPC was actually fighting not sitting on the sidelines waiting for multipolarity, they were living through it and had to adapt to their own conditions. If anything the argument I am making is not for the CPC to stupidly fight all capitalists at once but to *not* keep the alliance with the KMT indefinitely after Japan is defeated which they did not do. They fought the KMT anyway and won, so wtf, all capitalists should and will be opposed.
>You admit the truth but then downplay it as much as possible.
Bruh, as socialists we want that boot to be gone not lifted slightly. That ain't downplaying that is just fact.
>Marxist advocates for the end of unipolarity agree!
Oh that's great thank you for clearing that up never once crossed my mind that they would agree with such a basic principle, now lets start pushing for socialism as well (or just keep doing it but more now because we need it now more than ever). If you already agree, there is nothing else to be said.
>read Parenti quote
I read Black Shirts and Reds, and I agree entirely with that quote. He was specifically referencing left anti-communism, and even more specifically "Pure Socialism vs Siege Socialism" [pg 51 para2] and how that the pure socialists who saw the USSR and the Russian Revolution as a betrayed revolution. Great reading and Parenti was entirely correct. Left-anticommunism is not what I am arguing or even doing, and fuck you again for insinuating that.

1 of 2

 No.1340438

>>1340435
2 of 2

Here is another Parenti quote from the same chapter:
<For a peoples revolution to survive, it must seize state power and use it to (a) break the stranglehold exercised by the owning class over the society's institutions and resources, and (b) withstand the reactionary counterattack that is sure to come.
This is entirely true. I do hope you multipolarists supports a socialist revolution when the time comes and not just say that "we can't support the [X country] people's revolution, that might jeopardize the continuing transition of comprador bourgeoisie to national bourgeoisie. No this is all some burger color revolution run by communists in name only." Contrary to all the anti-burgoid insults thrown at my OP I do have hope that most of you guys will support people's revolutions though btw. I'm just critical of being overly optimistic and languid that everything will just be better or work out automatically under multipolarity.
>the fracturing of the power of the unipolar imperial core will make it easier for proles in the imperial periphery to be revolutionary defeatists and advocates of class war against their respective national bourgeoisie because there will be no greater threat of unipolar imperialism to rally nationalist sentiment.
Ok. I mean, that would be great. Still no reason to wait for that to happen automatically and start now (setting the foundations, supporting what already is there, and aiding in anyway one can whether in the imperial core or abroad). If you do that already, then good for you, there is nothing more that needs to be said. Keep up the good fight and never forget the aim is socialism and eventually (god willing) communism.
>it is unipolar aggression against the rest of the world causing these contradictions and fractures in the left.
Bro your Parenti quote literally contradicts that by just existing. Capitalists and anti-communists will seek to divide us whether there is unipolarity, bipolarity or multipolarity.
<no but uhh under multipolarity it'll be easier to—
It isn't universal and you don't truly know that it will be easier. It might be the same or worse depending on certain factors and where those countries are located on the globe. Doesn't make the fight any less necessary than it is now.
>The problem is reactionaries in the imperial core who benefit from imperialism concern-trolling proles in the periphery for being insufficiently revolutionary.
I agree there are some turbo assholes out there who want to keep the status quo because they reap its benefits (or think they do), but that is not what my OP is about. So please bitch about those losers somewhere else like /isg/ or tumblr or titter even.
>More like a less significant influence because it will be unable to maintain its overstretched imperialist apparatus once the rest of the world begins fighting back.
Bitch wtf are you talking about? That's not multipolarity. That's bipolarity against the imperial core (which seems like as I said an idealist dream as well).
>The idea that the USA will just turn a new leaf is exactly what the liberal imperialists who believe in the civilizing mission of NATO against the barbaric hordes of Asia argue.
You literally are making no sense. NATO exists to establish and keep the hegemony running. Don't deflect this shit. You say the world will fight back, but what does that even mean when multipolarity means each power looking out for their self interests? What happens if those interests differ in regards to combating the ex-hegemon? Or even clash. The US will most likely lose some of its grip, turn to fascism and then try to reclaim their hold on power or just be a regional entity. You guys seem to ignore that outcome. This gives credence to my argument that we should be pushing for socialism because even though multipolarity might mean good things for the periphery as well as bad things for other players on the world stage (and no I do not mean this as a defense of American hegemony I mean countries near the imperial core or even abroad). This is all beyond the fact tho. Whether there is capitalist multipolarity or bipolarity, or whatever the fuck we must push for socialism. That is all I'm saying.
>this is exactly what the people you are writing your screed against have been saying
Irrelevant. We may agree on that but it doesn't mean I cannot be critical of parts of their overall outlook. This statement means nothing.
>so the solution is not to oppose imperialism but to scold those opposing imperialism as insufficiently marxist revisionists
Thank you for putting words in my mouth. I did not call anyone revisionists. This is not at all what I wrote or what I meant in the OP. Fuck you.
>if you live in the imperial core I encourage revolutionary defeatism
Yeah which is why I don't support inter-capitalist conflicts anywhere. Once again fuck you.
>Do you have a working organization and a real plan of action to prevent this? Or just high sounding rhetoric about how people who agree with 90% of what you say aren't real socialists?
I would never say who is or who is not a "real" socialist based purely on where they stand in regards to multipolarity. I am no Agent Kochinski. You (any anons reading this as well) are in a way better position to understand your own material conditions on how to build/support socialist movements or create Marxist reading groups than I ever could. That is why my OP is vague in that regard. Its intentional. Because I can't (and will not) tell you wtf to do or what I think is some detailed course of action. That would be incredibly condescending.
>OK then maybe the imperial core proletariat should stop scolding the ruins of the Soviet Union and overthrow their own imperialist governments?
Missing the point entirely. Comprador to National bourgeoisie is the system reinventing/adapting itself, is it not? And to address the quote. How do we get that outcome if there is no foundation built for that to happen? There is a fascist foundation in the imperial core there is no denying that, and we are careening towards that. So we as socialists (in the imperial core) must start building something to oppose that reactionary force rather than wait for multipolarity. And this is happening. There is a resurgence of workers movements in the core (hopefully it grows, but waiting for multipolarity to boost it is wasting precious time).
>The lack of a united global movement is the problem, and the cause of that is unipolar imperialism strangling imperial periphery socialism in the crib and replacing it with a comprador bourgeoisie who funnel surplus value to the imperial core, performing double the parasitism.
Unipolarity? A lot of those coups occurred under bipolarity. This just reinforces my point further.
>it doesn't matter what we want
Yes it fucking does! Do you not want capitalism to be a thing of the past? OFC you do. We all do. We want socialism to replace capitalism.
>Reality matters. the reality is that unipolar hegemony is fading.
Yes, I said that in the OP. How do we get what we want? Educating. Organizing. Building the foundations or nurturing the foundations we might already have near us. Gathering together for warmth as I said in the last paragraph. Basic shit.
>We can either deal with this reality by employing strategies tailored to it or we can continue to wax poetic like you're doing.
Then do that, I agree strategies are important. But. This a thread on a leftist basket weaving forum you fucking idiot. Jfc. 90% of this thread is just cope, hopeless drivel, and airing petty grievances. What the fuck do you expect? My OP to be a academic paper or some autist blog post a la >>1338484 ? Touch some grass or just go back to your own commodified data bubble. Idk honestly. You do you.
>strained analogies
You mother was a strained analogy.

tl:dr
Fuck you.

 No.1340446


 No.1340515

Who is this "Agent Kochinski" anons keep referring to? I'm high as a fucking kite and I've never heard that name before. Literally who?

 No.1340518

This was top result when I googled I guess:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ursula_Kuczynski

 No.1340533

>>1340515
A famous streamer named V4ush, v. aush, there's a word filter on his name because he's either a fed or acts like one.

 No.1340537

>>1340518
And, his real name is Ian Kochinski.
>>1340435
>No it fucking doesn't. It just means THEY won't be the ONLY ones WHO do it.
This again….

 No.1340561

>>1340515
Ian Kochinski, better known as 𝕧𝕒𝕦𝕤𝕙, is an american youtuber and social democrat. He is widely reviled for his pedophilic remarks, his predatory behavior, and his strange insistence that he has "read all theory" despite not knowing the basics. Many people suspect him to be a federal agent because of his wrecker behavior. He was born into a rich family in Beverly Hills. His father is a special effects editor with a long career in Hollywood. Nearly everyone who likes him is underage, and nearly everyone he likes is underage.

 No.1340573

>>1340515
the lolcows have gained awareness and are taking us for a ride now

 No.1341482

>>1330617
Good post

>>1330855
Prashad and Ben Norton are exactly that kind of revisionist lol

 No.1341491

File: 1674428479264.png (1.82 MB, 883x1200, stfu american.png)

>>1341482
>Prashad and Ben Norton are exactly that kind of revisionist lol

 No.1341510

>>1339920
>russian expansion is not driven by the internal contradictions of capitalism, like it is in imperialism. by contrast, imperialist expansion is driven by necessity when monopoly technological development is completed and there is no room for investment opportunities which forces expansion into new markets of lower development
This is true, but you also have to remember that this distinction only makes a real difference up to a certain point. Even if a semi-periphery capitalist country like Russia is working to expand its influence for reasons other than to seek out new profits to feed its monopolies (e.g. for legitimate security reasons like in Ukraine), it will still exploit any new markets, people, and resources that come under its political control. The general rule of imperialist countries is that investment from the metropole arrives in a target country first, followed by its soldiers who come to defend those investments. However we should also expect that when soldiers arrive first, as when semi-peripheral countries launch military interventions for non-imperialist reasons, investment won't be far behind. There are historical precedents of wars waged by non-imperialist countries for non-imperialist reasons which nevertheless prove instrumental in those countries emerging as imperial powers. The Franco-Prussian war comes too mind here.

 No.1341909

Holy shit that is inspired!
Just transcend capitalism, just stop commodity production, produce for use or need!
Why didn't anyone think of that before?!

 No.1342547

How do we deal with the fact that the systems that tie us to unipolarity are tying us to, specifically, unipolar capitalism? At the current moment, every country is paying what amounts to an imperial tax to the United States through the international trade regime and is forced to constantly give the US special privileges in order to ensure that its reign is always uncontested in its dealings with every country. This comes at the threat of being exiled from the international trade systems that will leave your country either in autarky or chaos. Very few places can meaningfully achieve industrial autarky.
And if you are going to go socialist, expect to get doubly cracked down upon if you're any kind of threat of expanding to anywhere else. If you're going to be socialist but bend to the US whims, you're still imperialized and your citizens will be paying to fund the US' military's weapons that get used to force them back into the "international order".

 No.1342585

>>1341909
smug faggots like you want to act like youve figured out some grand historical strategy instead of struggling on the ground for communism. it must be really comfortable to think that communism actually just means you get to keep your treats, you get to own strangers on the internet, you get every one of your current habits, because the productive forces are going to swoop in and inevitably save you

nobody is going to do communism for us

 No.1342960

>>1342585
I don't think I've figured out anything great except there is a difference between good and bad things.
This has very much the feel of ultra projection to me. Your answer to any development is invoking Zeno's paradox (you can never get anywhere cause to get there you have to get half the way and so on) but without any irony.

 No.1343295

>>1330617
why would you explicitly tell us you're afraid of other countries developing because daddy could start a nuclear war lmao? are you retarded!?

 No.1343296

>>1340537
Imagine making the reverse argument here that the US being the hegemon makes class struggle easier lmaoooo
Zero self awareness from OP

 No.1343405

File: 1674595104777.jpg (19.11 KB, 553x479, stare.jpg)

>>1343296
>Imagine making the reverse argument here that the US being the hegemon makes class struggle easier
Literally not what I wrote, read the fucking OP loser.

 No.1343947

>>1343405
oh you mean the incoherent mess at the top of the thread? you can't seem to decide quite what it means.
maybe you're ready to admit being pro-multipolarity is objectively good and your pearl clutching is meaningless.
you gonna flip out every time a conservative says something good is good and attack everyone else who thinks so?
of course the reactionary national bourgeoisie is going to conflict with the international bourgeoisie who still profit from colonial relationships, and their compradors.
little faggots like you start to rail against math when retards like meloni and vladolf say 2+2=4

 No.1343949

the irony of everyone bringing up world war I is they can't bring themselves to examine who exactly is falling out of hegemony right now: THE COLONIAL POWERS THAT DID WORLD WAR ONE!!!!!
none of the periphery has these relationships because THEY WERE THE COLONIES.
OBJECT PERMANENCE. OBTAIN IT

 No.1343989

>>1340435
underwhelming response.
>There is already class struggle here
i said reignition, not initial appearance. My guess is you disagree with the idea of labor aristocracy. Convenient. I have trouble convincing my fellow proles in the imperial core of this idea, but I have no trouble getting comrades in the global south to agree.

For a modern understanding of labor aristocracy I would highly recommend Zak Cope's "Divided World, Divided Class", "The Wealth of (Some) Nations" as well as Tony Norfield's "The City".

Capitalists subsidize workers in the imperial core through the over-exploitation of workers in the global periphery. The labor aristocracy consists of these workers in the imperial core, who are paid higher wages, and pay less for consumption. This is why any gains made for the working class in the United States has left imperialism unimpeded, because once given their concessions, the working class in the imperial core stops revolting. The collapse of American imperialism will cause a precipitous drop in the standard of living for the (already highly exploited) american proletariat, and cause the petit bourgeoisie to lose their livelihoods and join the proletariat in misery. This will lead no other option for the imperial core proletariat but direct confrontation with their ruling class. That is what the emergence of multipolarity is a precursor to. I know you are capable of seeing this.

 No.1343990

>>1340435
>MF WE are the socialists, no one is gonna save us, not multipolarists, not china, not the periphery.
they aren't going to save us, but certain geopolitical inevitabilities are going to cause a precipitous drop in our imperial core standard of living, leading to there being way more people who want to join us, suddenly, who previously were merely liberals.

 No.1343992

>>1340435
>Ok. Yeah, I know that, its fucking insane bro. Its almost like they don't want to lose their grip on power.

glad you agree, however sarcarstically. Now the question is *why* are our leaders in the imperial core trying to replace Puting with Navalny? It's not because Putin is a communist, but it IS because Putin represents a threat to American financial and military hegemony. That is the real threat multipolarity poses, not an ideological threat, but change in the global balance of power. The periphery will be free of the IMF, of the world bank, of the CIA, and the core will be forced to revolt against their capitalist class once there are no more crumbs left to fight over.

 No.1344170

Where are the anti-multipolaristas?
It's your time of the day to seethe about the regional sovereignty and how it is literally imperialism and 1920's Europe.
https://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/internacionales/311642-celac-reaffirms-commitment-to-regional-integration

Remember folks, the periphery defending against the imperial core is bad and anti-socialist! You wouldn't support capitalists now would you??

 No.1344331

File: 1674671636126.jpg (8.84 KB, 540x389, egocat.jpg)

>>1343947
>oh you mean the incoherent mess at the top of the thread?
I see reading comprehension isn't your strong suit.
What in the fuck are you bitching about?
>you gonna flip out every time a conservative says something good is good and attack everyone else who thinks so?
No. You are the only one flipping out here anon.
>little faggots like you start to rail against math when retards like meloni and vladolf say 2+2=4
Wtf does this even mean? One can't be critical of a fascist (Meloni) or Putin even? You sound like a fucking liberal boot licker.
>>1343989
>My guess is you disagree with the idea of labor aristocracy.
No I do not disagree. Inconvenient enough for you? My argument has little to do with the labor aristocracy. Once again you ignore the rise in fascism that is occurring in the core. The rising labor movement in the state, while growing is nowhere near close enough to challenge the rise in reactionary sentiment let alone the current order. So, my argument, is to not wait for the living standards to just drop and hope (because that is literally what you are saying "hope"; you may think that it will just push many to our side and that the petty bourgeoise as well will join the masses of workers which is almost baffling to think since most of them are turning en mass to more reactionary corners and feeding the rise of the new form of American fascism) that everything will come up in our favor, it is to start building the foundations for a socialist movement now (or help build the already existing ones). I am so tired of repeating this basic shit. You are looking way too hard into what I wrote, its fucking exhausting, and a waste of fucking time. Listen to the KMFDM song, it is time to move the fuck on.
>>1343990
>leading to there being way more people who want to join us
Join what? PSL, CPUSA, DSA even? That is all well and good but those orgs could probably use more members now don't you think? Nothing wrong with getting involved now rather than later. We need a good foundation for them to go to (if that even happens). Nothing wrong with doing as little or as much as one can to help build that socialist foundation. That's all I'm saying.
>>1343992
>Now the question is *why* are our leaders in the imperial core trying to replace Puting with Navalny?
>it IS because Putin represents a threat to American financial and military hegemony
Lol no. Its because he isn't in America's camp, simple as that. Putin couldn't even take Cuckraine. He is no threat to the Great Satan. He's just a regional minion of the smaller Devils who exploit the Russian working class. And so is Nalvany. He's just America's puppet. If anything Putin is the biggest boon for America's military industrial complex currently. What Putin did in invading Ukraine literally made a bunch of American arms manufacturers shit tons of money. You dumbasses are so blinded by this campist shit its fucking laughable. Its like watching radicals turn to libs in real time (and I think you all know what most libs turn into when push comes to shove). Its honestly pretty goddamn sad the lot of you are falling for this bullshit.

 No.1344388

File: 1674673553862.jpg (154.08 KB, 1360x1360, uwuwuwuwuwu.jpg)

>>1344380
>"amalgam of imperial cope" allegations
mfw I can't beat the allegations

 No.1344509

File: 1674677655182.jpg (10.86 KB, 276x241, sophisticatedmonke.jpg)

>>1344409
>infrared
>anarchist aesthetic
>propaganda
Lol wtf are you smoking, I haven't even mentioned a word about anarchy in my OP or even in this thread, well until now.
>>1344415
>oh no I missed a part of what some asshole said about my post about their post about my OP except I actually didn't tho
You are right anon all the pissed got stored in my brain.
>direct confrontation
Like I said a million times already. How are people going to truly confront the ruling class (and pretty much the entire old order of things)? With a solid political foundation. That foundation needs to exist first. We should help make it exist instead of waiting for it to just appear. This argument for waiting for shit to get real bad and hoping that this socialist foundation will just appear unironically sounds more anarchistic than anything I stated in my OP. Its like the same idiotic mindset of thinking that the state should be automatically be abolished once workers seize power without gimping the revolution by erasing the base in which to keep power. Its the same retarded as fuck mindset of post-left post-civ anarchists who think they can live within the ruins of "civilization" not realizing that when a mode of production ceases to be relevant and the old order is toppled, things do not just go stagnant, something will replace it whether one wants it or not. Yet for all these things to happen at all, it requires a political foundation otherwise it just idealist dreams.

 No.1344599

>>1340435
>You know what is way more likely to occur if we do nothing before multipolarity happens? Fascism.
>>1344331
>Nothing wrong with getting involved now rather than later.
rising multipolarity is a call to action not to do nothing. we need strong parties to take advantage of the coming crisis and lead the masses

 No.1344663

File: 1674687343233.gif (1.64 MB, 304x498, 1641491619370.gif)

>>1344599
>rising multipolarity is a call to action not to do nothing.
Yes, I agree. That is the point of my OP. I am not against multipolarity, it is something that is happening regardless as I stated so many times already.
>>1344602
>OUN flag
retard
>insinuating I am like those anarcho-natoists after I just gave a critique of anarchy in prev post
>thinking one should be afraid of multipolarity
???
Listen, I know its hard for you to read words like those in the OP, but please, illiteracy is a thing that can be overcome. I'm rooting for you anon. You'll be able to read big words someday.
>>1344613
This.
>>1344624
>you write a screed about how the communists who noticed before you need to prepare
Which communists did I call out? I would like to know. I in fact say they are fine. See >>1340435 <which most of them already do, so they are alright in my book

>YOU need to prepare.

Yeah. Absolutely agree. Its super important.
>You guys only heard about this shit through NATO's political entertainers!
I mean yeah, it sucks here in the core. Propaganda central.
>Get with the fucking program!
Once again, yeah. Absolutely. Why do you have to scream like a bitch though? Nothing else needs to be said. We agree.

 No.1344714

File: 1674689813781.gif (1.5 MB, 640x360, good-choice-beer.gif)

>>1344679
>I'm not reading all your shit at this point because it's so stupid and repetitive and full of EPIC MOTHERFUCKING SAMUEL L JACKSON BACON
Wtf is wrong with bacon mf?
>>1344695
>You really thought you did something
Yeah, I wrote the OP. That's what I did. I mean if you don't like what I wrote that's alright. I honestly don't care. Some ppl liked it, some hated it. Its all good. I just don't want ppl to misinterpret what I meant as if its some defense of American hegemony or misconstrue things. That's all. I don't care if you like it or not bro. I like what I wrote and stand by what I wrote and what I clarified. That's all. Thank you for reading it again btw.

 No.1344767

https://www.radiohc.cu/en/noticias/internacionales/311642-celac-reaffirms-commitment-to-regional-integration
https://github.com/dessalines/essays/blob/master/us_atrocities.md

Remember folks, the periphery defending against the imperial core is bad and anti-socialist because its capitalists doing it! You wouldn't support capitalists now would you?? WWWMS (what would marx say)?


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