[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

Join our Matrix Chat <=> IRC: #leftypol on Rizon
leftypol archives


 No.1341600

Are trade guilds [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guild] a viable mode of worker-organized labor to form a parallel mode of production to help construct socialism? They could differ from co-ops in that they require no formal association apart from validation and admittance, and allow ad-hoc production of commodities using internally communal means of production. So in other words, similar to co-ops but they don't seek to compete in the capitalist market but simply exist for themselves, to the extent they can achieve satisfaction of their own needs in some way

Trades this could be useful for:
-Pumbers
-Smiths
-Glass blowers
-Engineers
-Architects
-Teachers

It seems this could be applicable to all sorts of jobs

Any thoughts?

 No.1341609

File: 1674439674813.png (55.25 KB, 235x206, ClipboardImage.png)

Ronald Reagan was in the Screen Actors Guild, as he crushed the Air Traffic Union, so sounds like a plan, kiddo

 No.1341610

>>1341609
Screen actors guild isn't a guild

 No.1341613

File: 1674439814811.png (1.05 MB, 900x900, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1341610
it's right there in the name

 No.1341614

>>1341613
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SAG-AFTRA

The Screen Actors Guild - American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (SAG-AFTRA, stylized as SAG·AFTRA /ˌsæɡˈæftrə/) is an American labor union representing approximately 160,000 film and television actors, journalists, radio personalities, recording artists, singers, voice actors, internet influencers, fashion models, and other media professionals worldwide. The organization was formed on March 30, 2012, following the merger of the Screen Actors Guild (SAG, created in 1933) and the American Federation of Television and Radio Artists (AFTRA, created in 1937 as the American Federation of Radio Artists, gaining a 'T' in 1952 after its merger with the Television Authority).[4] SAG-AFTRA is a member of the AFL–CIO, the largest federation of unions in the United States.[5]

 No.1341637

How is a guild different from a union?

 No.1341644

>>1341637
a union is a way for workers to gain power over their their employers to collectively bargain for better working conditions

a guild is a organization which is from the top down consisting entirely of workers, with no direct affiliation to the bourgeoisie at all. it owns its own means of production and vets for the highest quality workers to offer apprenticeships to other workers who are just starting and perform labor from a context outside of capitalism entirely, could be for mutual aid purposes or personal gain

 No.1341655

File: 1674443637546.png (178.69 KB, 1500x851, ClipboardImage.png)

These "have you guys ever considered that communism is when you try to bring back feudalism" threads are made once every month or 2

 No.1341658

>>1341655
this thread is not about bringing back feudalism

 No.1341660

File: 1674444430242.png (37.11 KB, 1477x154, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1341661

>>1341660
we are in drastically different times, this is not the recreation of old guilds, it's the creation of new guilds. the word guilds is badly chosen anyway. it's really workers power organizations. workers attempting to accumulate their own means of production to provide mutual aid to each other and build expertise independent of socialism. so that when the means of production is seized by the organized proletariat there is already experience in communal administration of that means of production.

 No.1341663

>>1341644
No that's not how a guild worked historically or theoretically under any context. There's a reason why guilds were done away with for free labor because guilds at the time were backwards. Maybe you're in the mind of scifi where guilds in futuristic settings exist but obviously sci-fi is just that sci Fi, fiction and fantasy.

 No.1341665

>>1341663
no i see it in present time, workers appropriating or purchasing their own means of production to let them work on their own terms for free for others and train others into work. the working counterpart to a trade union

the trade union works to administer worker power against the capitalist

the guild works to administer a worker-managed communal means of production and allow productive labor to be done outside the confines of capitalism entirely, to lay the seed for experimentation with different forms of worker ownership of the means of production under pre-socialist capitalist contexts, for the purpose of mutual aid

 No.1341666

>>1341665
Now you're talking about a cooperative which again, is not a guild.

 No.1341724

>>1341661
so they'll slave away, exploit themselves as hard as humanly possible, so they can save up to buy a multi-million dollar factory or whatever, and then…. the experience they get is guessing demand based on market conditions, and doing deals with the bourgeoisie they are trying to buy from or sell to?

This gives no useful knowledge for socialist organization of production. It only shows workers how capitalists organize production. It's like storming the halls of power and realizing no one is home. I'd rather not see it happen, its sad and pathetic. Imagine the contorted consciousness that would arise from having to manage your own exploitation, as well.

 No.1341725

>>1341600
You'd have an easier time bringing back 19th century fraternities/secret societies that predated the the formation of the AFL. The Knights of Labor used to have Freemason-like rituals before they got took over by Georgists, for example.

 No.1341726

If we bring back guilds can I form the Adventurers Guild? I want to wear a cape and slay monsters in dungeons.

 No.1341733

HEY YALL, IM ABOUT TO HEAD OUT. IM WEARING MY FANCY HAT AND IM GONNA TAKE THE TROLLEY TO THE NEAREST CHEF'S GUILD AND LEARN HOW TO COOK. THEN ONCE IM DONE IM GONNA TAKE THE CABLECAR UP TO THE MOUNTAINS AND GO FOR A HIKE. THEN IM GONNA GO TO THE DIRIGIBLE STATION TO CATCH A BLIMP TO NEW YORK. ILL SEE YALL IN A FEW WEEKS

 No.1341738

>>1341733
OH BTW APPAREMTLY THE TECHNOCRATS FINALLY FINISHED THEIR CANAL PROJECT WHICH IS PRETTY AWESOME. I DONT USUALLY USE THE CANALS THOUGH CUZ I HAVE MY STATE-MANDATED PONY FROM VERMIN SUPREME'S PONY POLICY. AND THE WORLD LAND BRIDGE IS GONNA BE COMPLETED NEXT MONTH ITS GONNA BE GREAT

 No.1341759

File: 1674456629433-0.jpg (371.51 KB, 2000x1672, Tippelei.jpg)

File: 1674456629433-1.jpg (215.67 KB, 1000x500, Tischlergesellen.jpg)

Dunno about other countries but in Germany the guilds never died, they're just called differently now, like "Innung", "Verband", "Bund" and so on. Guilds were never for workers though, they were always clubs where bosses of a specific trade assembled and that's still the case. In the late medieval period ordinary workers used to organize in what would become trade unions later, these proto-unions weren't called unions back then though. Some of those old unions still exist, they still are a bit different from unions though. There are certain requirements to meet like age, finished apprenticeship in a specific trade. Honorable members, journeymen in particular, must obey a rather strict set of rules all the time (including in free time) in order to not get dishonored, there are certain rituals to master and so on. Old unions exist only for old crafts (Zunft) like carpentry, roofing, masonry, forgery etc.
pic related is not LARP, as "honorable stranger" you look like this literally all the time on a journey


tl;dr: guilds are for bosses, unions are for workers

 No.1341769

>>1341600
Not really, no. But collegias/trade guilds are bound to return under fascizing Westoid socieites because they'd need to discipline the labor somehow - and Roman collegias came to be in a context of citizens running away to coutryside, so Roman authorities had to stop the outflow of specialists and had to resort to basically enslaving citizens into collegias to keep cities functional. Fascist West WILL resort to this shit, first as prohibiting emigration of Chinese and Indians home, then more and more ridiculous shit like, say, building a wall on Mexican border to keep Mexican labor inside US

 No.1341837

>>1341738
I read Vermin Supreme and was bummed out because I read he died, but I checked his Twitter and he's alive again.

 No.1341879

ok I think you guys convinced me what really only labor unions can fulfill the purpose of this thread and guilds are bullshit

 No.1343984

File: 1674638974233.png (45.92 KB, 1024x422, 1024px-AMA_logo.svg.png)

The biggest and most profitable guild to ever exist is the American Medical Association. Their members make a fuckton of money by making sure outsiders can't study medicine and become doctors. Guilds are not for working class people because by definition, they restrict membership and stop outsiders from training in their occupation.

 No.1343991

>>1343984
Without derailing the thread to calling out the medical industry, your point alone is why I don't even trust unions, selectivity, conformity, and only benefits for In-members" is a danger that can become a very useful tool.

 No.1343993

File: 1674639781599.png (85.06 KB, 1216x286, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1343984
>>1343991
Lolbert invasion?

 No.1343995

>>1343993
By that logic doesn't the very image you just posted prove you're a nazi.


Unique IPs: 16

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / siberia / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta / roulette ] [ cytube / git ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru / zine ]