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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.1343570[Last 50 Posts]

Could someone please explain why American socialists still insist on invoking Christianity (Protestant theology in particular) when America is the LEAST Christian it’s ever been?

Church attendance for all denominations is dropping steadily while the number of Americans identifying as “no religion” has gone way up in the past decade or two. It’s gotten to the point where the GOP doesn’t even appeal to fundamentalist Protestantism anymore; now they overwhelmingly appeal to conspiracy theories and short-term outrage. The last midterm elections proved abortion and other “Christian values” issues are a losing bet since the younger generations are far more socially progressive all while the older, more conservative generations are dying off with no one to replace their votes.

With that said, what’s even the point of this “Jesus was a socialist” crap? It seems like Muppet and his followers ultimately want to create some kind of cultural nationalism, like American Protestantism is the American equivalent of the ROC for Russians or Shia Islam for Iranians. But how pragmatic (or true) is that really, when less and less Americans are adhering to Christianity? It makes no fucking sense and comes off as a losing position.

 No.1343574

>when America is the LEAST Christian it’s ever been?
Pretty much irrelevant. Tell me approximately how many million Americans are Christian.

 No.1343577

I remember some old school American progressive saying: “When I go to the picket line I see Christianity but no Christians. When I go to church I see Christians but no Christianity.”

 No.1343580

>>1343574
Compare the numbers of Christians in America today to what they were 20 years ago and you’ll see what I mean. Church attendance for Protestants has dropped significantly.

 No.1343587

>>1343570
>It seems like Muppet and his followers ultimately want to create some kind of cultural nationalism, like American Protestantism is the American equivalent of the ROC for Russians or Shia Islam for Iranians.
You answered your own question. Christianity is a fundamental part of the nationalist project in the US. PatSocs see American Protestantism as their ticket in with the masses because Protestant Christians are still currently the majority.

Although, like you said, that's starting to change. Not to mention, the biggest problem I see with trying to forge some kind of American liberation theology is that there is no single Protestant sect that generally represents "American". In Latin America, Catholicism is so ingrained in the culture that being Catholic simply means being Latino. In Greece, likewise, Orthodoxy is so heavily ingrained in their culture that there is no distinct modern Greek culture without the Greek Orthodox Church. In the US you don't see the same thing at all, where being [Protestant denomination] means being American. Probably the closest would be Rocky Mountain culture and Mormonism but Mormonism is reactionary as fuck so I doubt that could serve as the basis for a revolutionary American religion.

 No.1343598

>>1343577
"Being a good person" =/= "Christianity"

Without sacraments, dogma, doctrine, or tradition you really don't have anything that makes something distinctly Christian.

 No.1343600

>>1343570
>why American socialists still insist on invoking Christianity
most don't, maupin is just a chriscuck weirdo in red paint
/thread

 No.1343603

>>1343570
>It seems like Muppet and his followers ultimately want to create some kind of cultural nationalism, like American Protestantism is the American equivalent of the ROC for Russians or Shia Islam for Iranians.
There is a tradition in American society of progressive reform movements using Protestant religious language to give their arguments some moral force so I'm not outright against the idea in the abstract, and while religiosity among African-Americans is overstated, I think religiosity among them has remained relatively stable compared to other groups, and I don't think a crude/vulgar atheism helps a whole lot there.

But the problem that Maupin has is that Protestant Christianity and particularly the deep-fried Burger kind is remarkably ill-suited to that job since it's, like, by design a decentralized thing that splits the moment it reaches a certain size. It's just not a Church in the sense that the RCC or ROC is, or Shia Islam is in Iran which is the closest thing the Muslim world has to such a thing, and it tends to skew toward a rather liberal theology or Joel Osteen megachurches.

>>1343587
I think there's some pattern-mapping where Protestant Christianity has gotten secularized a lot so it "maps" onto movements that are on their surface irreligious, like Q-Anon is deeply embedded in a particular numerological-allegorical / millenarian / Seventh-Day Adventist. Some conservative critics have pointed out the religious symbolism of reform movements like BLM which has its predecessors in activists like Ella Baker in the 60s who believed in socialism but differed from the Black Panthers and aimed for a non-hierarchical form of "participatory democracy" wrapped in a Christian carapace, but I don't think that's what Maupin means.

>>1343600
Also this.

 No.1343607

>>1343587
>In the US you don't see the same thing at all, where being [Protestant denomination] means being American.
you did for a while, when America was dominated by Wasps, "Real" (i.e. english/welsh/scottish) descended Americans were either Anglican/Episcopal (English) or Presbyterian (Scottish), and to a lesser extent any Congregationalist/Calvinist denomination. Later on certain types of German/Scandi Lutheranism got rolled in as well.

 No.1343609

>>1343603
>But the problem that Maupin has is that Protestant Christianity and particularly the deep-fried Burger kind is remarkably ill-suited to that job since it's, like, by design a decentralized thing that splits the moment it reaches a certain size. It's just not a Church in the sense that the RCC or ROC is, or Shia Islam is in Iran which is the closest thing the Muslim world has to such a thing, and it tends to skew toward a rather liberal theology or Joel Osteen megachurches.
That's exactly the point I was making. You can't really expect Christian socialism to catch on in America because what constitutes "American Christianity" isn't a single set of Protestant doctrines but hundreds of different churches all with distinct teachings.

I remember a tweet from Maupin's old Twitter where he said he thinks leftists need to reach out to "revolutionary" Protestants like the Quakers and Mennonites (makes sense given that LaRouche was a Quaker and Maupin grew up around Mennonites in rural Ohio). But the thing is, Quakerism and Anabaptism are so fringe in the US (unless you're in Pennsylvania/Ohio) that it makes no sense at all to use their teachings as the basis of a burger liberation theology.

>Some conservative critics have pointed out the religious symbolism of reform movements like BLM which has its predecessors in activists like Ella Baker in the 60s who believed in socialism but differed from the Black Panthers and aimed for a non-hierarchical form of "participatory democracy" wrapped in a Christian carapace, but I don't think that's what Maupin means.

Leftist Black Christianity isn't even super-Christian anymore, but heavily mixed with New Age spirituality, feminist interpretations, indigenous African artifacts, etc.

>>1343607
Even then though, it was very decentralized. Christianity in New England wasn't the same as Christianity in the South. Why would comrades in the North adopt Southern Baptist theology as the basis for a revolutionary church?

 No.1343618

>>1343570
It is just a bunch of literal whos.

 No.1343620

>>1343618
Maupin has a pretty substantial internet following.

 No.1343622

>>1343609
>Even then though, it was very decentralized. Christianity in New England wasn't the same as Christianity in the South. Why would comrades in the North adopt Southern Baptist theology as the basis for a revolutionary church?
Southern Baptism only split from the rest of baptism in the 1840s over slavery, originally they werent split. Furthermore "evangelical" denominations didn't count as WASP denominations, the WASP elite followed the mainline protestant denominations that were previously mentioned and the evangelicals were seen as low class illiterate schizos.

 No.1343623

>>1343622
The fact American churches can split so easily is evidence of what I mean. Any liberation theology Protestantism would split quicker than a Trot party.

 No.1343629

File: 1674610062516-0.png (330.82 KB, 640x437, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1674610062516-1.png (690.26 KB, 640x640, ClipboardImage.png)

The US needs to be Catholicized. That's the only way forward; Protestantism, particularly American Protestantism, has showed its shortcomings and how you can't build a prosperous and proletarian society out of it.

 No.1343640

>>1343570
>Could someone please explain why American socialists still insist on invoking Christianity (Protestant theology in particular) when America is the LEAST Christian it’s ever been?

Because every single progressive movement in America originally started out as a Protestant religious movement. Slavery abolition, the labor movement, the right of women to vote and later the civil rights movement and anti-Vietnam War movement all began with churches. Without churches there is no leftism in America.

 No.1343645

>>1343640
Even if what you're saying is true, it still doesn't account for the fact America is less Christian than ever before, and using muh Jesus as a means of promoting socialism in America is going to fail. Millennials and zoomers aren't going to church anymore and like OP said you know things are bad when even the GOP isn't catering to Evangelicals or Christian fundamentalists any longer.

 No.1343648

>>1343629
if the US is Catholicized it will be right wing american-style fuentes style tradcath bullshit. All you would do is make american salazarist/francoist

 No.1343656

>>1343587
The Religious Right was able to recruit Christians from multiple denominations. George Bush wasn’t even Evangelical but Methodist.

 No.1343657

>>1343648
There’s a Catholic Worker revival though.

 No.1343669

>Could someone please explain why American socialists still insist on invoking Christianity (Protestant theology in particular) when America is the LEAST Christian it’s ever been?

Because burgers are retarded next question

 No.1343670

>>1343570
Because the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin is trying to apply the “Dugin model” to the US where he sees “America” as being a nation with a unique destiny given by God. It’s basically replacement theology except America is the “new Israel” as opposed to the Catholic Church.

 No.1343708

>>1343587
>Rocky Mountain culture
Wym by this?

 No.1343719

>>1343570
The American left fetishizes Christianity just as much as the right. The only religion the most cynical grad student has appreciation for is the small-town liberal Protestant church which functions more like a community center than a religious org.

 No.1343720


 No.1343723

Its mostly retarded reactionary nostalgics (most of those uyghas wanting Christian Socialism aren't even Christians, you're shitting me if you think Maupin or Dugin ever set foot in a church), i also think they want to coopt the black and latino votebank

 No.1343725

>>1343580
>Compare […]
Still irrelevant. You're not even pretending to understand this very simple point. The decline amount is irrelevant.

Christians make up over 60% of the population. There are more of them than your group and all the other non-Christian ones combined.
Now, even if they were a mere 10% they would matter! That's millions! But they're a supermajority and therefore a very important demographic.
>look how much they declined!
Still over 60% of the population
>they're losing more!
Still over 60% of the population

Polls say socialism is rising. Guess we should stop appealing to non-socialists amirite????

 No.1343726

>>1343629

read lenin

https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1909/may/13.htm

<Marxism is materialism. As such, it is as relentlessly hostile to religion as was the materialism of the eighteenth-century Encyclopaedists or the materialism of Feuerbach. This is beyond doubt. But the dialectical materialism of Marx and Engels goes further than the Encyclopaedists and Feuerbach, for it applies the materialist philosophy to the domain of history, to the domain of the social sciences. We must combat religion—that is the ABC of all materialism, and consequently of Marxism. But Marxism is not a materialism which has stopped at the ABC. Marxism goes further. It says: We must know how to combat religion, and in order to do so we must explain the source of faith and religion among the masses in a materialist way. The combating of religion cannot be confined to abstract ideological preaching, and it must not be reduced to such preaching. It must be linked up with the concrete practice of the class movement, which aims at eliminating the social roots of religion. Why does religion retain its hold on the backward sections of the town proletariat, on broad sections of the semi-proletariat, and on the mass of the peasantry? Because of the ignorance of the people, replies the bourgeois progressist, the radical or the bourgeois materialist. And so: “Down with religion and long live atheism; the dissemination of atheist views is our chief task!” The Marxist says that this is not true, that it is a superficial view, the view of narrow bourgeois uplifters. It does not explain the roots of religion profoundly enough; it explains them, not in a materialist but in an idealist way. In modern capitalist countries these roots are mainly social. The deepest root of religion today is the socially downtrodden condition of the working masses and their apparently complete helplessness in face of the blind forces of capitalism, which every day and every hour inflicts upon ordinary working people the most horrible suffering and the most savage torment, a thousand times more severe than those inflicted by extra-ordinary events, such as wars, earthquakes, etc. “Fear made the gods.” Fear of the blind force of capital—blind because it cannot be foreseen by the masses of the people—a force which at every step in the life of the proletarian and small proprietor threatens to inflict, and does inflict “sudden”, “unexpected”, “accidental” ruin, destruction, pauperism, prostitution, death from starvation—such is the root of modern religion which the materialist must bear in mind first and foremost, if he does not want to remain an infant-school materialist. No educational book can eradicate religion from the minds of masses who are crushed by capitalist hard labour, and who are at the mercy of the blind destructive forces of capitalism, until those masses themselves learn to fight this root of religion, fight the rule of capital in all its forms, in a united, organised, planned and conscious way.


<Does this mean that educational books against religion are harmful or unnecessary? No, nothing of the kind. It means that Social-Democracy’s atheist propaganda must be subordinated to its basic task—the development of the class struggle of the exploited masses against the exploiters.

 No.1343727

>>1343726
>read this celebrity's assertions
lol no

 No.1343729

>>1343600
Can't /thread yourself, newfag

 No.1343746

>>1343725
>Christians make up over 60% of the population.
How do you define "Christian" though? Most Protestant sects don't see Catholics as Christians, for instance. Mormons and JWs are not seen as Christians by the majority of other Christians. Unitarian Universalists aren't viewed as Christian either.

 No.1343750

>>1343725
Which Christians do we appeal to?

 No.1343772

>>1343629
cringe fascist meme. get back to /pol/ kid, they're waiting for you.

 No.1343779

>>1343746
>How do you define "Christian" though?
Honestly, doesn't matter. Argument still stands for the biggest sects individually, and the principles can often apply generally to both prot and cath.

 No.1343780

>>1343750
Define 'we'.
Or better yet, don't. I don't care enough to bikeshed over pointless shit. What is the point of this question?

 No.1343781

>>1343746
And Nazis don't see themselves as retards. Who cares. Their worldview is irrelevant to our model of analysis of them.

 No.1343782

>>1343779
>>1343780
>>1343781
Not even the GOP feels the need to appeal to Christian moralisms anymore. It would be pointless for leftists to do so.

 No.1343785

File: 1674623509918.jpg (61.55 KB, 860x573, download.jpg)

God is the Jungian Logos and human destiny is to bring Chaos into order, therefore Christianity is part of one long snake hunt that humans have been waging since being ejected from Eden.

 No.1343794

>>1343782
Look, for context, when I say appeal to them I mean we shouldn't dismiss them unilaterally for being deludional cultists. If explaning that socialism is a solution to Christ's critiques of greed will get more people to fight capitalism, so be it.

 No.1343802

>>1343794
There's a huge difference between not attacking someone for being religious and flat-out pandering to their religious beliefs.

 No.1343920

>>1343570
>those video titles
FFS Maupin

 No.1343982

>>1343570
Outside a few anarchists spaces and the dsa,frso,psl and cpusa etc most leftist in America have no real life political experience ,they musterbai here all day

 No.1344031

>>1343620
It is all astroturfed

 No.1344034

>>1343727
ywnbac

 No.1344039

>>1344034
Too late. Already am one, nerd. and a member of a CP, for whatever that's worth these days.

 No.1344040

>>1343802
Yeah, but when communist (note: =/= socialist) history is filled with signs of religious oppression and the most vital figures repeatedly talking shit about them, that first step is non-trivial.

I would say I'm not ok with /isg/-tier pandering, I'm not defending that, but I'm open to acknowledging them and actively finding common ground. Not just passive 'hi we won't kill u'.

 No.1344041

>>1343982
>outside of political groups, most people have no real political experience
O RLY??/

 No.1344079

>>1343570
US leftoids are groping to a solution to the problems of extreme alienation, social atomization and lack of solidarity among the modern working class. They learned in 2020 that just "having good policies" doesn't automatically generate an organized social/voter base, and are turning to religion/nationalism as a potential solution (and are rubbing shoulders with Catholic reactionaries and "national conservatives" in the process).

It is funny seeing the ideological grab-bag of r/stupidpol speedrun from "these Christians have some good ideas" to "we need to make the US more like BASED Poland" over the past two years.

 No.1344090

>>1344079
The Bernie movement helped popularize the anticapapitalist left or at least the left in general ,like specific policies who the american bouj seem unwilling to implement(aka they are perfect for an transitional proggram) like free healthcare and legal system restructuring have well over 60% popular support like even the mainstream dems have to imply support to win.

 No.1344140

>>1344090
Sure those polices are very popular, but their popularity did not lead to a broad social movement - into a mass of working people confident and organized enough to pressure or break from the Democratic Party and existing business unions/NGOs. And this seems to have prompted a lot of soul-searching among leftists, with some of them softening their stances towards religion or nationalism (while others retreat into elite conspiracy theories and other cope).

 No.1344160

>>1343570
Put simply, nationalism. As much push back the idea of America as a Christian nation generates, the fact that Christianity is deeply woven into the fabric of American national identity is pretty much accepted by everyone, regardless of political or religious persuasion. Maupin wants to create a socialism with American characteristics, hence the need to accommodate Christianity because, even as a purely secularized object, it's integral to American identity. Then you have the factor of civilizational identity, European Western Marxists like Zizek or Badiou (staunch atheists btw) have a special place for Christianity and discuss it, or at least a historical form of it, very positively, of all religions it is unique because it generated the ontological categories that make it possible to conceive of communism and human freedom and that's the reason why the West is socially progressive. In the European case, secular defenses of Christianity are basically a response to the Iranian revolution and they only became a thing in America post 9/11 but I digress. Europe is even less religious than America, but in terms of political identity Christianity is still integral even for Darwin thumping atheists.

Another factor here is the legacy of Martin Luther King, and the idea of leveraging religion in order to galvanize society for social change. However, leftists who take this approach are just generally ignorant about MLK and overlook the fact that his movement in the end failed and faded into irrelevance.

 No.1344171

>>1344140
>did not lead to a broad social movement - into a mass of working people confident and organized enough to pressure or break from the Democratic Party and existing business unions/NGOs.
Yes you need something called a vanguard for that

 No.1344191

>>1343920
I want to kill his cows and burn his tents.

 No.1344198

>>1344040
Appealing to Christianity would also get non-Christians to become suspicious of you.

And there's nothing productive about appealing to people's religious teachings. We're supposed to transcend the superstitions of the exploited classes, not reinforce them.

 No.1344205

>>1344160
I'd even go so far and argue that even the American left is extremely Christian in the sense that (as I've stated previously) they tend to fetishize liberal Protestantism as a way of reinforcing community closeness. For all the times the American left insists it wants to abolish the suburbs and move everyone into the big cities, when you ask an American leftist to describe their ideal socialist society they describe what basically amounts to an American small town with a liberal Protestant church at the center.

 No.1344224

>>1344205
Also they would rather be martyrs than be victorious and have to live and govern the new reality

 No.1344244

>>1344205
The “small American town” is also a nationalist symbol. There’s a reason why MAGAts are so big on convincing their followers to leave the cities and move to small towns in the Midwest/Appalachia.

 No.1344358

File: 1674672713699.png (299.97 KB, 911x534, 435034950834950t-0345.png)

Religion often serves as a tool to brainwash the lower classes by giving them an opiate-like painkiller to ease social class struggle. But at other times, it has been used as a tool by the lower classes to justify a social class struggle against the upper classes. To some extent, it has had positive influences by uniting the lower classes at various times, but overall, it's negative because it's fake and superstitious, supports social oppression, and deviates focus from the real issues.

If that hurts your feelings, then I'm sorry if you're incapable of facing reality of being a talking bag of meat instead of succumbing to this "I'm so fucking important" cosmic Karen comedy.

 No.1344363

>USApol haz fag
ew

 No.1344373

>>1344365
>China is also set to be the most Christian country by 2030 lmao
Christianity is currently experiencing one of the biggest self-deluded copes in world history by putting all their hopes in Africa and Asia where they go "did you know there are 100 million Christians or more in China and it will be the main religion in China by 2030 and blahblahblah."

Yet anybody with a common sense or having any experience will know this so-called research is completely B.S., like the fake news they produce in America. But amazingly this type of Christian new hope is widespread among the Christian world in the West. You can basically see the desperation in their faces.

 No.1344378

>>1344373
Christfags failed to materialize the "Atheism is le cringe" and "Conservatism" is punk rock and so that is now their new form of cope.

 No.1344385

>>1344358
>as a tool by the lower classes to justify a social class struggle against the upper classes
When?

 No.1344395

A: they're retarded

 No.1344431

Because as we all know Marx and Marxist theory in general has always been very respectful and supportive of religion.

 No.1344436

>>1343587
If you’re from the South it’s almost a given you’re either Baptist or Pentecostal. If you’re Catholic or Orthodox you won’t be considered Christian.

 No.1344441

>>1344436
not really, especially in places with irish immigrants Catholicism is around, likewise for orthodox churches in areas with Russians and whatnot. Beyond that religion is pretty rapidly shrinking in the South, especially in the field of church attendance. Out of my 400 person class I think maybe only 120 went to church.

 No.1344446


 No.1344447

>>1344446
US is a catholic nation

 No.1344451

>>1344447
the US may be a catholic nation but dixie isnt

 No.1344453

>>1344433
You mean you have move pasted it, not "us". How do you exorcise the bourgeois character of religion, like in Christianity its defenses of Private property (it defended land ownership under feudalism and a lot of it's doctrines are around that), hierarchy (the pope, church hierarchy, and other structures), colonialism, etc.

And I don't see how saying "dude atheism no popular" is much of a argument for the vatiality of religion in a socialist society. It's not as if militant atheism or Marx existed in times or in societies friendly to atheism.

 No.1344454

File: 1674675622015.png (57.22 KB, 640x640, 1389417633471.png)

>>1344451
dixie will be orthodox

 No.1344462

>>1344454
actually when im through with it it'll be a gnostic vodou nation

 No.1344465

>>1344462
dixie has already reached max schizo sorry

 No.1344467

File: 1674676029704.png (712.1 KB, 640x735, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.1344494

don't respond to the maupinoid, he's ban evading

 No.1344518

>>1344467
>bitch, you live like this
one has to have some pity for americans

 No.1344531

>>1344467
The small American town is a climate catastrophe, I agree.

 No.1344537

>>1344531
>America [,,,] is a […] catastrophe

 No.1344546

>>1344537
LOL, agreed.

 No.1344682

>>1343570
>It’s gotten to the point where the GOP doesn’t even appeal to fundamentalist Protestantism anymore; now they overwhelmingly appeal to conspiracy theories and short-term outrage.
Just because the optics have changed doesn’t mean the agenda hasn’t changed. The American right is still pushing abortion bans, attacks on the LGBTQIA+ community, neoliberal economics, attacks on unions (although Dems do this too), and so on, they’re just doing it for the sake of nationalism rather than Jesus.

 No.1344691

>It’s gotten to the point where the GOP doesn’t even appeal to fundamentalist Protestantism anymore; now they overwhelmingly appeal to conspiracy theories and short-term outrage. The last midterm elections proved abortion and other “Christian values” issues are a losing bet since the younger generations are far more socially progressive all while the older, more conservative generations are dying off with no one to replace their votes.

Fucking delusional. The Religious right as a political force has never been more powerful than at any point in American history. Just because in the short term they have become victim of their own success doesn't mean that they have lost steam. If you think that Roe was the be-all, end-all the you are in for a rude awakening. More supreme court cases are coming (gay marriage) and so are more attacks on abortion (national abortion ban).

 No.1344705

>>1344691
>More supreme court cases are coming (gay marriage) and so are more attacks on abortion (national abortion ban).
doubtful the supreme court already made it illegal to ban gay marriage and legalized gay marriage

 No.1344718

>>1344705
>doubtful the supreme court already made it illegal to ban gay marriage and legalized gay marriage

Uh, yeah and 50 years ago they did the same with abortion. They literally talked about comin for it in the current anti-Roe ruling, lmao. Stop being in denial please.

 No.1344728

>>1344718
would be interesting to see

 No.1344743

>>1344691
It’s not being done for the sake of religion though. It’s being done out of nationalism.

 No.1344748

>>1344743
The GOP has more or less adopted Christian Nationalism as it's party platform though, it's both

 No.1344749

>>1344467
Note: A lot of them could have chosen to get their coffee by parking and then getting it inside, but none of them want to leave their cars.
The stupidity is not a small part of the problems.

 No.1344762

>>1344467
Kind of a selective sample fallacy. I want to see something like a cafe in a smaller town compared to downtown Paris.

 No.1344834

>>1344467
Why do burgers assume Europeans don't own cars?

 No.1344836

>>1344718
But the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin told me the ruling class is pro-abortion!!!

 No.1345675

Christian supremacy will always be white supremacy. They love Protestantism because American Protestantism is mostly white. It’s not like they’re supporting the Coptic or Ethiopian Churches.

 No.1345707

>>1343570
they are fascinated with the power of religion to inspire their followers as a means to an end, why else is maupin fascinated with cults like Jim jones?

 No.1345733

>>1345675
Because Orthodoxy is a paradigm completely alien to most Americans. American Christianity is full of teachings that the Eastern/Oriental Orthodox churches fully reject.

 No.1345749

>>1343570
America was founded as a English Protestant state.

 No.1345791


 No.1345921

This is going to be controversial amongst this board, but it's because specifically Protestantism - which, despite modern demographics - is what America as a nation was founded upon. Protestantism is also responsible for a lot of the modern-day cultural ideas that lead to the idea of the "West" as a whole, and therefore lead to the ideas of Liberalism and subsequently Socialism.
Due to this intellectual heritage, and the fact that Protestantism already has a strong bearing over America, American Socialists see Christianity as entirely compatible if not necessary for Socialism in their nation.
The reason why many Marxists historically opposed Christianity is because they were exposed to almost exclusively Catholic and Orthodox Christianity, which is ironically opposed to both Liberalism and Socialism. I don't need to speak on the Soviets nor the Spanish for their Churches were strongly if not exclusively Orthodox and Catholic respectively, but Karl Marx - who stated the explicit anti-religious sentiment within Socialism altogether - was born and lived in a strongly Catholic part of Germany. If he, per se, was born outside of the Catholic sphere of influence, Socialism would likely sing a far different tune towards religion altogether.

 No.1345927

>>1343729
i can if the OP is retarded, anon

 No.1345934

>>1343598
>working class political expression is "being a good person"
Christianity has actual theological tenets outlined in the bible and is more than vague notions of morality judgments

 No.1345963

>>1345934
Yes, and that’s why you can’t reduce Christianity to some vague notion of being nice or whatever. Early Christianity looked nothing like pastor Bob’s baptist church.

 No.1345965

>>1345921
Muslims are currently doing way more to resist capitalism than Protestants.

 No.1345969

Churches, especially Black Churches in the US are some of the only remaining organized relics of what people call civic society. Outside of mega chuches and crack pot sects not good strategy or praxis to go full New Atheist on them which is cringe idealism. Some of America's most radical figures, especially from the Civil Rights Era came from this milieu.

 No.1345970

>>1345921
It’s highly essentialist to suggest socialism needs Protestantism to set the conditions. Not a single Protestant country ever underwent a socialist revolution.

 No.1345975

>>1345970
muh east germany

 No.1345998

>>1345970
>It’s highly essentialist to suggest socialism needs Protestantism to set the conditions.
elaborate where I said that.

 No.1346138

>>1345921
>Protestantism is also responsible for a lot of the modern-day cultural ideas that lead to the idea of the "West" as a whole, and therefore lead to the ideas of Liberalism and subsequently Socialism.
Even if this is true, Protestantism has thoroughly outlived its usefulness (not to mention, *which* Protestantism are you talking about?). Millennials and zoomers in America aren't going to church. Liberal churches are emptying faster than fundamentalist ones. A lot of Prots are converting to Catholicism because Catholicism has a firmer grip on truth and ethics than the thousands of Protestant denominations do.

And, to continue what OP said, the GOP isn't even pandering to Jesus anymore. When they attack trans rights, for instance, they do it on the basis that queer teachers are "recruiting" kids to become trans, or that gender-affirming healthcare amounts to "mutilation" or something, they rarely ever appeal to Biblical gender roles. Even their arguments against abortion aren't religious anymore but just a long, drawn-out argument about when life begins or hysteria over "abortion on demand up until the moment of birth" (which never happens).

Protestant Christianity is clearly on its way out.

>>1345969
But the people OP mentioned aren't catering to the Black Church. They're specifically catering to liberal Protestant churches which are very white and middle-class oriented.

 No.1346179

>>1343574
A much better metric would be, how many Americans actively attend church every Sunday? Because anyone can call themselves a "Christian" but what matters is how much does their faith inform their worldview.

 No.1346243

Eh, it's hard for me to overlook the anti-intellectual baggage of Christianity, but from a social POV, I can't deny that it's mostly Christians running the soup kitchens.
Even atheists and agnostics belong to Unitarian Universalist churches:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitarian_Universalism

 No.1346332

>>1346243
UUs are mostly bourgeois whites.

 No.1346345

>>1346243
>type: liberal religion
>founded: 1961
Yikes.

 No.1346351

>>1345970
Have you heard of a small country called Germany?

 No.1346354

>>1343570
American christianity is a freak anomaly in the western world. Its a colonial tradition.

 No.1346370

>>1346354
Pretty much this. America is the only country where Christianity has splintered into hundreds of different groups with each one claiming to be the "original church". It's not like right after the Coptic Church split off from Catholicism you saw hundreds of different Coptic churches with entirely different theologies.

 No.1346678

>>1343570
protestants don't 'have' to attend church. Church attendance is a more important metric for catholic and orthodox christians

 No.1346688

>>1346678
this tbh. start your own church like the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin

 No.1346698

>>1346678
>protestants don't 'have' to attend church.
What do you mean?

 No.1347262

>>1346698
a tenant of protestantism is the 'priesthood of all believers' so they dont need to go to a priest to receive the sacraments

 No.1347274

>>1347262
So why do they have churches at all?

 No.1347363

>>1347274
Socializing.

 No.1347364

>>1347274
for fellowship, also the division of labour applies to the pastor atleast in theory

 No.1347532


 No.1347634

>>1347262
Do they take communion at all?

 No.1347686

Question: have American communists ever appealed to Christianity in the past?

 No.1347733

>>1347686
I think Eugen V Debs was a Christian and did this a little but I dont remember well.

 No.1348209

>>1347262
Which isn't even Biblical. A lot of Protestant theology goes out the window when you, ironically, read the Bible.

 No.1348257

>>1343629
British America was protestant and Independent America was majority protestant with a secular government run by deists. People literally burned effigies of the pope in an annual holiday until the mid 1800s. It would be totally discontinuous with the nations' history for it to embrace catholicism. also your fascist meme is cringe

 No.1348258

>>1347686
read Hammer and Hoe

 No.1348259


 No.1348260

>>1348209
>A lot of Protestant theology goes out the window when you, ironically, read the Bible.
so does a lot of catholic ritual. it's almost like religions are these socially constructed programs that don't necessarily even follow their own dogma

 No.1348278

>>1348260
Catholicism and Orthodoxy have oral tradition which Protestantism lacks.

 No.1348281

>>1343574
>>1343725
What's going to happen in 10 years when most of those boomers start dying off in large numbers? Millennials and zoomers aren't going to church and atheism among both generations is extremely high.

 No.1348606

>>1348260
Think again.

 No.1348631

>>1347733
He was a christian and a socialist but he was not a christian socialist. His oratory leaned heavily into religious lingo and themes though.

 No.1348783

>>1343570
They romanticize a time when Protestant denominations in America were relatively progressive and anti-establishment when that’s not true at all today. It’s identical to the people who think Russia and China are still socialist.

 No.1350136

>>1343570
churches are a way for the local community to get together into a building with lots of seats and often food halls and classrooms to present information and do lessons. if anything, i would say they are materially essential for socialists to utilize. this is saying nothing about the religions themselves.

 No.1350139

Any time you see a socialist try and virtue signal to religious folk always take heed that it's probably a bullshit grift. There are socialists who are genuinely religious and how they talk is very distinct from those who virtue signal to gain points from other religious folks. A religious socialist will very rarely bring religion into poltical conversation unless they are talking to other similarly religious people.

 No.1350623

>Maupin
He's basically traditional and out of touch and lazily assumes that religious support would catapult American socialism into the limelight. He thinks it's a cheat code

 No.1350824

>>1350623
Caleb "I'm neutral on the culture war except for the fact social liberalism and abortion and transgender ideology and punk rock are all inventions of the CIA and Rockefellers in order to prevent you from becoming a socialist, now find Jesus" Maupin

 No.1351607

>>1343570
>the GOP doesn’t even appeal to fundamentalist Protestantism anymore; now they overwhelmingly appeal to conspiracy theories and short-term outrage.
Such as?

 No.1351738

>>1350136
What's even the point of appealing to religion if churches are just "community" orgs?

 No.1351807

File: 1675214185582.jpg (17.21 KB, 250x250, 1674934063394244.jpg)

Because your average leftist in the united states is a spinless faggot with no foot in anycamp either way. They want to appeal to the widest margin of people with out reealizing that allowing skitzo christfags and other religious reactionaries in our midst we are setting ourselves up for failure. I have no issue with people religious being in a socialist organization but they are not above being scrutinized or made fun off for their backwards bronze age mythology.


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