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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.1346696[View All]

Why has CPUSA been so mythologized in the past two years when they were a massive failure and sucked even in their “good days?”

American communists tried to follow the Bolshevik strategy and failed. They didn’t originally give a shit about Black people either, they only adopted the Black Belt thesis because Stalin told them to. They were way too close to the Comintern and that bit them in the ass later on. Foster was power-hungry and mad because his steel strike failed while Browder was a clout demon. The whole thing was a mess from the start. I’m kind of relieved the feds took them down.
359 posts and 57 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.1402899

File: 1679098303330.png (358.8 KB, 755x553, 90469045690-654.png)

>>1402891
I dunno but I assume they just wanted to air it and C-SPAN showed up with a camera. C-SPAN will air all kinds of stuff, they're non-partisan in that way. They aired Gus Hall's memorial service and the Vietnamese ambassador made an appearance.

https://www.c-span.org/video/?160702-1/gus-hall-memorial-service

For the convention, it doesn't appear they just ran a livestream like the DSA did, but just the keynote address and a panel discussion.

 No.1403021

This is hilarious.

 No.1403627

>>1346712
Didn’t he backdoor the Wobblies?

 No.1403749

>>1346704
What do you mean by appeal to more Americans?

 No.1404093

>>1400878
Update: work is well under way and should be ready to publish by noon tomorrow (maybe even tonight).

I'm trying to figure out whether it would work better split into separate chapter pages or as one giant web page for the whole book, would appreciate your thoughts.

 No.1405626

>>1404093
I'd prefer one giant web page but that's just me.

 No.1405676

>>1398480
PSL Atlanta is

 No.1406938

>>1383755
>>1392365
>>1404093
It's done! Here's the link:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/foster/1912/syndicalism/index.html

I ended up making both a segmented and a single-page version which was not worth it BTW so you can choose which one you like.

There may be a few glitched links and the like, I just finished so I haven't checked the errors yet. Let me know if you run into any big errors (or small typos for that matter) and I will try to fix them tomorrow.

Anyway, I'm tired as fuck now and will go to bed after this post. Feel free to make a separate gloat thread if you think this project deserves one.

 No.1406971

>>1406938
Holy shit I love you.

 No.1406975

>>1406938
One thing I'd suggest doing.

See how it says "William Z. Foster archive" on the bottom?
https://www.marxists.org/archive/foster/1932/toward/06.htm

You might want to add that at the bottom.

Great work though.

 No.1406992

>>1383303
>PSL is Marxist-Leninist, not "Stalinist" or "Maoist."
Stopped reading here

 No.1406999

>>1406992
ML is Stalinism.

 No.1407177

>>1347763
That was a fantastic video and put a lot of things in perspective. To hear how genuinely inspired people were in the 20s and 30s by the Soviet Union, and then just how badly Khrushchev's speech (coming right on the heels of McCarthyite suppression) fucked everything up, is pretty stark. 80% of the party leaving within 2 years of that speech is a catastrophe.

The newsletter snippets in the aftermath of the secret speech are particularly interesting to me. Lenin explicitly modeled democratic centralism on a military command structure, but party members started considering it a weakness rather than a strength. That demand for openness and "full" democracy on the one hand and the need for disciplined party members taking orders from experienced and militant leadership on the other is a circle this country's been trying to square for 70 years now.

 No.1407204

>>1407177
>That demand for openness and "full" democracy on the one hand and the need for disciplined party members taking orders from experienced and militant leadership on the other is a circle this country's been trying to square for 70 years now.
Cuba seems to have done it successfully.

 No.1407218

>>1407204
After the revolution, sure, but prospective party members here are wary of even getting a foot in the door for fear of undemocratic tendencies. It isn't even a matter of petty bourgeois/middle class/PMC sensibilities, as the people in the video were committed, hardcore working class communists for most of their adult lives during the height of the communist movement in America, yet most of them ditched CPUSA all the same after the secret speech.

 No.1407244

>>1407218
>yet most of them ditched CPUSA all the same after the secret speech
I suppose it's hard for us to understand the shock that these people must have experienced at the time. The 40s were easily the height of Soviet prestige in the West for obvious reasons relating to the war, and even when the liberal establishment turned on the Soviets at the start of the Cold War it would have been easy to dismiss those attacks as propaganda. Then along comes cornman who appears to say that actually a lot of these accusations are true. I can see why the shock would stun and disillusion people, and at least lead them into various other anti-Soviet leftist tendencies.

 No.1407530

>>1407177
> Lenin explicitly modeled democratic centralism on a military command structure, but party members started considering it a weakness rather than a strength. That demand for openness and "full" democracy on the one hand and the need for disciplined party members taking orders from experienced and militant leadership on the other is a circle this country's been trying to square for 70 years now.
Maybe this is proof anarchism, not ML, will be what brings socialism to America?

 No.1407553

>>1407530
No. You had your chance with the IWW.

 No.1407711

>>1407553
How was the IWW a failure but CPUSA not?

 No.1407760

>>1406975
I put in a directory link thingy at the top that is pretty similar. You can click from MIA > Archive > Foster > Syndicalism, or at the bottom of the page click the top of page link to get back up. Probably best to have both, but I'm too lazy rn to add it to all eight pages.

I encourage anyone that spots any transcription errors to post them here! I don't think there are many left, but this is an easy place to identify them.

On a different note, I have had an idea for a collective project for the MIA for a while now that involves Stalin and his Foundations of Leninism. I want to take a break for now but I will make a thread about it when I'm ready.

 No.1407921

>>1407711
The CPUSA succeeded the IWW because it was a much better organization in articulating the demands by the immigrant workers (until they were enticed by the wages of whiteness). In short, the IWW was the best and only vehicle to deliver anarchism and it failtered when the superiority of marxism prevailed with the russian revolution as it's proof.

 No.1407929

>>1407921
Being able to point to the Soviet Union as an example was apparently extremely effective for the communist party pre-WWII and I'd say that more than anything is what helped gain supporters. They could point to them and say "here's a society right now without unemployment, without bosses, where everyone gets what they need, where working people matter, what we want IS possible." There aren't powerful examples like that anymore, popular imagination is restricted to things like Nordic welfare states and lines going up in China.

 No.1407932

>>1407929
Ummmm, Rojava?

Chiapas?

 No.1407935

>>1407932
The Soviet Union spanned a continent, had a population of more than 100 million people, and inspired fear in capitalists the world over. Rojava and Chiapas don't come anywhere close to that in the minds of people, laudable as they might be.

 No.1408676

>>1406938
Odd question, but can you tell where the clicks to the page are coming from?

Like if I posted the link on Twitter, and ten people clicked on it, would you be able to see that they came from Twitter?

 No.1408748


 No.1408752

>>1407929
And also
Marinaleda
All in the Federation of Egalitarian Communities
You could even get away with Cherán for certain arguments.

I know it's not comparable in the 'this is a huge world power', I'm not pretending these serve the same purpose, but these examples are much more viable to a post-Cold-War audience. The closest thing to an atrocity committed by Marinaleda is the mayor commanding a group of raiders to shoplift staple food supplies from supermarkets in other towns.

 No.1408763

>>1407929
>Being able to point to the Soviet Union as an example was apparently extremely effective for the communist party pre-WWII and I'd say that more than anything is what helped gain supporters.
Go to 24:00 in this documentary. There's actually a funny punchline of sorts to what she says.

 No.1408764

>>1408752
They're led by Eurocommunists and are in an electoral alliance with the PCE. Local projects are well and good but this is a far from not being.
>but these examples are much more viable to a post-Cold-War audience.
Because on a communal level the ruling class doesn't really care whether communists take over a small town or not. At best they belittle it. On a national level, a movement like that would get smeared into oblivion, and I don't know if that is more palpable to normies - as far as I can tell, they are not CHAZ-type anarcho-liberals but an alliance between communists, Eurocommunists and social democrats.

 No.1408765

>>1408764
not being the type of alternative to traditional communist politics as you describe it*

 No.1408768

Also lol @ "atrocities". How can a small town in Spain commit atrocities. Close a playground?

Atrocities are committed in war and during massive social transformations of entire peoples.

 No.1408821

>>1408764
Look, talking about three different communities without saying which one you're talking about made a fucking mess of a comment. Please just greentext the name of which one/s you mean.
Not that it matters, because I don't even think any of them are communists, let alone Eurocommunists.
Cheran doesn't really derive from any recognized ideology beyond 'fuck organized crime and the politicians and police they rode in on' and CEF are anarchistic commune utopians who hold property in common.
Zapatistas (mentioned in the other comment) contradict your suggestion that they're trivial because they did have a minor war with the Mexican government and hold territory containing hundreds of thousands of citizens.

>Because on a communal level the ruling class doesn't really care whether communists take over a small town or not.

What? No. Because there wasn't a fucking national war against them, littered with ingrained allegations of egregious disasterous mismanagement, totalitarian brutality, brainwashing and national genocides. Regardless of whether they're true or not, those are normalized mindsets that you have to overcome unless you want X0% of people to just shut you out as if you were talking about how Nazi Germany was good. Yes, to normalfags Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia are truly comparable.

>>1408768
>Also lol @ "atrocities". How can a small town in Spain commit atrocities.
Pogroms or starvation or some shit. But yeah, they didn't and were very unlikely to. Sure. It doesn't really matter why they didn't, you're missing the point.

The fact is, a small town in Spain is able to demonstrate advantages (see it as an outlier of GFC 2008) and there is no blatant disadvantages someone could point to like with the USSR.
Don't tell me why. I know they're completely different. I know the USSR was a supermassive state that lasted over 70 years and was involved in two world wars and socio-economic overall. No-one gives a shit about context. Any argument you can give to support the USSR, an opposing guy can just point to an atrocity to smear it, and claim it was because of socialism, and a large proportion of people will accept it.

 No.1410538

>>1406992
and
>>1406999
the duality of man.
<this is literally some next level shit right here. here we have people implying PSL is not Marxist Leninist by way of disagreeing with it being called Marxist-Leninist because it is not "stalinist"* or "maoist"* and then someone else saying that marxist leninist because it is "stalinist".
lmao

this is not unlike the time when someone wrote a screed on the itsgoingdown anarchist website where they called PSL 'Stalinist' and tried to argue that all of its activities in the struggle for abortion rights were actually invalid because



* terms like stalinist and maoist are anticommunist terms. there is no universal blueprint for building socialism. the idea that communists have to adhere to only the methods used by specific revolutionaries in one country, in one movement, or one individual revolutionary figure, like Lenin, or Mao, or Honecker, or Castro, or Sankara, or Il-Sung, is at best limiting. we should want to learn from all of them and to understand the experiences of those struggles, but the idea that we can replicate their successes by only mechanically practicing their same methods is a contradiction, and cannot be revolutionary. our approach has to also take into consideration the material history of our class, and of our people. we have to be acquainted we are informed by theory, of course, but also by practice. it is through practice, and a thorough examination of the material world that we can even hope to build socialism with our people. the idea that we could apply all the methods that worked specifically for Lenin and his fellow people, that they used to build socialism over in Russia, and take that and put that into our country, without any adjustments whatsoever, is both mechanical thinking, non-critical, and blunted. we cannot shove a square peg into a round hole. the experience of building socialism in vietnam, of course, is different from the experience of building it in cuba, or in the democratic people's republic of korea, or in china. Each of these revolutions involved trial and error, and each of these revolutions had specific obstacles. The same theory of development that explains the material circumstances of those countries, with a thorough review of the material history of those countries, is also the same theory that explains why Marx had once thought that revolution would first occur in the most developed countries in Western Europe, and why he ended up being wrong. He was writing with the best information he had available at the time, as we all are.

stalin was not perfect by any means, but, also, we recognize that communists, believe it or not, can also make mistakes, and that it is mostly experimentation through which that we learn what the theory of revolution actually is. stalin was a marxist-leninist. mao was a marxist-leninist. but their lack of "purity," the fact that they sometimes made mistakes (mao would admit to many mistakes), is not something we should look at exclusively. we should concern ourselves with real world outcomes, which is the object of policy and decision-making in most cases. China went from being a backward semi-feudal country, subject to imperialist invasion, to a superpower that is soon to break through the world unipolarity. Vietnam was also a backward, semi-feudal country, that was colonized by France and invaded by the Japanese. Vietnam has grown significantly because of socialism, and though it was besieged seemingly on all sides, it not only overcame odds but won its soverignty, and stopped pol pot, a CIA puppet.

 No.1410711

>>1346696
Question: is the widely acclaimed speaker, writer, journalist, and political analyst Caleb Maupin closer to Foster or Browder ideologically-speaking?

 No.1410745

>>1410711
Foster, Caleb in his live streams criticizes Browder and his actions in the 1940s period such as dissolving the Party, its actions during WW2, Browder's poor treatment of Foster and Flynn, and other factors which led to liquidationism and weakening of the CPUSA right before getting hit by the sledgehammer of McCarthyism.

 No.1410914

>>1410711
Neither.

Browder to his credit at least didn’t justify aligning with FDR using conspiracy theories.

 No.1411235

>>1410745
So why does Maupin pretty much repeat the same popular front strategy Browder advocated?

 No.1411295

Foster's downfall was being a true believer. He said in 1953 (?) that the Soviet Union was only five years away from achieving full communism, which I don't even think his most die-hard apologists would think of defending. When you go around your whole life thinking that revolution is going to come ANY DAY NOW that's going to motivate you to be proactive but it's also going to put a huge target on your back in terms of repression, which is exactly what happened. Red Scare propaganda from the 1950s literally makes the guy look like a cartoon villain.

I don't think a lot of comrades on here understand. When you choose the life of an agitator, you have to get lucky every day. Every day when you wake up and get on the picket line, when you engage in sabotage, when you do that direct action, everything has to go exactly right so you can make it out in one piece. But the State only has to get lucky once, and in an instant it can take away everything you fought and struggled for.

 No.1411305

File: 1679730021475.gif (801.33 KB, 500x212, giphy (7).gif)

>>1411295
Seeing William F. Foster struck down by McCarthyism… COINTELPRO… evil psychos who hated communists… who were just decent, ordinary people. Foster's downfall my have been because he was a true believer, but I believe he will be vindicated one day, and the crimes against him and others avenged as he stares down on the world like a Force Ghost. That'd be good.

 No.1411505

>>1411295
>But the State only has to get lucky once, and in an instant it can take away everything you fought and struggled for.

The Party was already imploding before McCarthyism.

Ever thought that maybe you just can’t have communism in America?

 No.1411986

A lot of Black radicals today have a lot of grievances towards CPUSA. The party survived largely off of Black (and Jewish) labour.

 No.1411989

>>1411505
>you cant have communism in america
Yes you can. You can have communism in haudenosaunee, new england, dixie, aztlan, texas, california, cascadia, lakotah, hawaii, alaska, puerto rico, guam, samoa. But you cant turn the USA communist. The CPUSA failed because it was a party in the USA. It was a USA party. Thats why the CPUSA failed. It accepted the territorial claims of an apartheid settler state as being legitimate. The CPUSA was an apartheid settler party for apartheid settlers.

 No.1412010

he will always be right. nazi germany will never be a socialist country. rhodesia will never be a socialist country. and the united snakes will never be a socialist country.

 No.1412785

>>1411295
> I don't think a lot of comrades on here understand. When you choose the life of an agitator, you have to get lucky every day. Every day when you wake up and get on the picket line, when you engage in sabotage, when you do that direct action, everything has to go exactly right so you can make it out in one piece. But the State only has to get lucky once, and in an instant it can take away everything you fought and struggled for.
I swear you stole this from The Wire.

 No.1412791

File: 1679865322991.png (638.35 KB, 900x472, ClipboardImage.png)

>>1412785
He just stole the IRA quote and reversed it.

 No.1412797

>>1411295
>But the State only has to get lucky once,

You forgetting WZF had criminal syndicalism charges levied against him in the 1920s and only beat the case because the ACLU pulled some strings?

 No.1413009

>>1412785
>>1412791
That’s actually a really old saying that the cops say to gangbangers - "You gotta be lucky everyday but we only gotta get lucky once."

>>1412797
>and only beat the case because the ACLU pulled some strings
Back when the ACLU was based and communist-controlled.

 No.1413022


 No.1413250

>>1410711
Browder definitely.

Foster would've called Caleb a chauvinist and revisionist, possibly an antisemite too.

 No.1413884

>>1411295
To be fair it made sense to kiss Soviet ass back then.


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