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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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What is the correct take of a socialist party under capitalism? Pro development or anti development? Neoliberals like to blame zoning and similar restrictions from stopping new housing being built. Is there merit to this?


There are already enough houses to end homelessness.


It’s ALWAYS more development. Only fascists and liberals promote de-growth


Resources are infinite! The market 5 year plan will go up forever! There is no such thing as waste as long as production is generating profit uh… um… JUST MAKE MORE SHIT WHO CARES IF THE DEMAND ISN'T THERE?


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bruh theres a huge difference between pro development and pro capitalist development, especially when the alternative is that all the land is bought up and forms basically a new landed gentry and no one else can ever get in, making it neofeudalism


>It’s ALWAYS more development.
<theres a huge difference between pro development and pro capitalist development
oh so its nuanced now? why make that first post then?



do you really need a thread to understand social housing? it is very simple, even a lot of non burger anons probably live in it.


You gotta build more commieblocks to CRASH the housing markets and thus make housing affordable.
At least that’s how a socialist president or congress of Fatland would do it (should they take control and capitalism still is present).


Upon being born and assigned a social security number, every baby will have a commieblock room attached to their social security number that they can move into and out of at any point in their life. No rent charged. Payment is only for deterioration of the property over time. Land value tax put into place for all private land ownership. Zoning laws entirely repealed, if something needs to be written it can be rewritten. Redistribution of land for all powerful landowning organizations like blackrock immediately.
Homelessness solved.


i was going to quip that oh so capitalism would be over if we built even more factories and then realized that yes sort of

though that wouldnt be good for the environment


Whatever happened to taking over the means of production (and everything else)


then maybe tax third houses and undeveloped land in urban areas


just like all resources, most houses are hoarded by a small number of people

This was how I became aware of “warehousing,” the practice by which landlords keep unrented apartments off the market to create artificial scarcity. Building owners have always done this, especially in new constructions with lots of virgin inventory, because why give renters the upper hand if they don’t have to?

But they really started doing it during the pandemic. On a 2022 episode of the real-estate-industry podcast Talking Manhattan, Gary Malin, COO of the Corcoran Group, made a surprising claim: “At one point during the downturn, the vacancy rate in the city was close to 25 percent,” he said. “You had owners who were sitting on hundreds if not thousands of empty apartments.”

Officially, during the peak of the COVID exodus, the vacancy rate in Manhattan was 4.3 percent, the highest in at least 14 years. But those “official” vacancy rates we hear so much about are sourced from market reports by brokerage firms like Corcoran and Douglas Elliman, and they only reflect the number of rentable apartments that landlords are advertising, not the number that actually sit empty. Given the incentives for underreporting, this is a little like calculating a city’s crime rate by asking criminals how many people they robbed and murdered last month.

I asked Malin to estimate the real vacancy rate post-rebound. “I think it’s close to 2 percent,” he told me, which would put it back in line with official rates. “Unless an owner is intentionally keeping units off the market for whatever their reasons — maybe they need to do renovations, maybe they plan to sell the building and think it’s better to sell it vacant — right now, if you have apartments available, you are renting them.”

Still, a 23-point drop in New York City’s vacancy rate would signal an inflow of hundreds of thousands of residents who haven’t yet appeared in any other data. Where are they? Or, perhaps more pertinently, if building owners were lying to us about the amount of their unused inventory as recently as a couple years ago, why should we believe them now?

We know that at least 20,000 rent-stabilized apartments are being warehoused because landlords have admitted as much. (A 2021 Census Bureau estimate puts the number at 42,860.) Owners blame a 2019 state law, the Housing Stability and Tenant Protection Act, which limits the amount they can raise rents to pay for renovations. They say their warehoused apartments are in such poor shape that it would be impossible to recoup the cost of necessary repairs at rent-stabilized prices, so they’re holding them vacant until Albany repeals the law.

But here, I admit, is where my conspiracy theory falls apart: If all of these luxury buildings were hiding supply, wouldn’t one smart landlord undercut competitors by opening their whole stock and making a killing at today’s artificially inflated prices? Of course one would. And so I almost ended this column with a deeply felt apology for impugning the honest intentions of the New York City real-estate community.

But then, in October, ProPublica published what seemed like evidence of an actual conspiracy. It turns out that some landlords have been using the same software to do some very interesting things.

The app is RealPage Revenue Management Software, it’s made by the Texas-based company RealPage, and allegedly it works by collecting private pricing and inventory stats from competing building owners and then using that data to give them each recommendations for how to price their available apartments such that nobody undercuts the others.

Some argue — including the plaintiffs of over a dozen class-action lawsuits filed in the wake of ProPublica’s story — that RealPage’s software allows individual landlords to keep their hands clean while indirectly colluding to inflate prices. In 2021, a RealPage executive bragged at a conference that his company’s algorithm was responsible for rent increases nationwide. “I think it’s driving it, quite honestly,” he said, according to the article. “As a property manager, very few of us would be willing to actually raise rents double digits within a single month by doing it manually.”

Landlords are allowed to reject RealPage’s pricing guidance, although former employees of the company told ProPublica that up to 90 percent of suggestions are followed. The software discourages negotiation with tenants and has even been known to tell owners to goose prices by holding back supply.

On a 2017 earnings call, RealPage CEO Steve Winn described how a property manager saw revenues go up when their buildings that had historically been 97 or 98 percent full cleared out to 95 percent, “an occupancy level that would have made management uncomfortable before.” According to one lawsuit, “This is a central mantra of RealPage, to sacrifice ‘physical’ occupancy in exchange for ‘economic’ occupancy, a manufactured term RealPage uses to refer to increasing prices and decreasing occupancy in the market.”



so landlords are algorithmically doing price fixing. It's a literal fucking cartel, not just metaphorical.


Yes that is the point. In Fatland, should a socialist party take over a government while capitalists would still be present, Those capitalists would still own millions of living units (houses, condos, apartments etc.) Therefore, it would only be optimal for that party to apply a law in place which would encourage the development of new complexes such as commieblocks.


and whats preventing the capitalists from owning whatever new buildings that get built? and if youre actually preventing that why not go all the way and add laws that stop price gouging or even take back the currently existing buildings?


It's simple. Under communism there will be only one landlord - the state. The state will calculate housing need and allocate resources to construct enough homes to meet that need. Citizens may appeal to the state to 'rent' a residence for as long as they need it.


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>not knowing modern theory on planning emphasizes that environmental constraints can be made explicit
development will happen in socialism, and we should expect it to accelerate due to the unfettering of the means of production
TL;DR: capitalist development bad, socialist development good


whatever vienna is doing


The fundamental problem of market based development is that the working class cannot afford to pay the prices that lead to ROI that the rich can. This means that for profit development cannot meet the needs of the working class.

the only thing that works is mandate a certain percentage of housing that private developers build to be social housing. Building that housing is part of the deal. This ensures public housing is build in any new development. Bonuspoint if you mandate that it must intersperse the other development so that you don't get "ghetto districts" and gates communities.


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small villages and family housing plots


The state would own the Commieblocks. Also, what’s the point of porky in building more buildings if they’re everywhere and they’re cheap? It’s like selling sand at the beach.


>"hey you, homeless man, I know you lived in LA your whole life, but there are some shitty empty houses in Detroit, so we will put you there instead of building new ones"
this is how you sound
house that's empty =/= house people want to live in


plenty of the empty houses are in great locations and just being hoarded for speculation purposes



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yeah, undoubtedly, but nowhere near enough to solve the problem that a lot of people are unhoused or housed in poor conditions (hazardous environment, bad housing quality, poor location and access to services etc.)

If we want a society that actually solves peoples problems, lots of new houses will have to be built and lots of existing houses will have to be torn down.

think bigger, picrel can fit almost 20.000


File: 1679521269591.png (72.78 KB, 232x284, 0_0.png)

>What is the correct take of a socialist party under capitalism? Pro development or anti development?

The correct take is to act in the interest of workers and agitate for the common seizure of the means of production. This makes no static implication on pro/anti development stances.

I shouldn't have to tell you this.


Socialism is about socialism and not a bunch of other irrelevant politicized issues that are made political despite being non partisan issues by porky to distract us?
Buh–but twitter told me only chinlets and Trump supporters eat ice cream and play Gorbinos Quest and "trve socialists" don't…


File: 1679522249659.jpg (80.98 KB, 640x480, pls no bulli.jpg)

>Socialism is about socialism
I mean, it's heavily debated, but I'd like to say yes, socialism is about socialism.


File: 1679522669223.png (1.61 MB, 1600x900, ClipboardImage.png)

How are a handful of mansions relevant to what we're talking about?

This is the only solution to the housing crisis in the desirable cities but America will never do it. Instead we will just get "tiny homes" and a handful of subsidized units in a luxury apartment complex.


Why are you reposting some random schizo?

>pic 2

"employee occupied commercial space" what the fuck does that even mean?


The correct take for the socialist party of the 2020s with regards to housing needs to take into consideration anti-growth, walk ability, infrastructure focused directing trains people to work and pushing out cars even if it means collapsing the car industry and those jobs. Socialists of today have different conditions and development to take into vs what was going on a hundred years ago. Communal gardening must also be taken into for urban planning which regards every citizen to have to contribute to the communal municipal gardens this can also exist and coincide with the lowering of work hours leaving more time in the day to contribute to the local gardens.


Why not just liquidate the capitalists though.

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