No.1492417[Last 50 Posts]
Is this Grusch guy for real? Seemingly his credentials as a security official check out and there's going to be a Congressional hearing in which he testified under oath that the US is hiding recovered alien craft. The weakness in his testimony is that it's mostly hearsay, but he's not revealing classified information in specific to prevent getting gulaged by the DoD. Other intelligence officials have come forward supporting what he said.
Why is this shit just popping up now though, could it be some coordinated effort by glowies to distract people from something, or could it be legit?
US urged to reveal UFO evidence after claim that it has intact alien vehicleshttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/jun/06/whistleblower-ufo-alien-tech-spacecraft No.1492430
im still convinced its just bullshit to drive military recruitment since its all military videos and shit. I could be wrong, but i don't really believe space travel is even possible. I think the military is just getting desperate for fresh blood.
No.1492433
>>1492430and before some autistic fuck tries to argue. Yeah there is limited travel possible within our solar system, but traveling outside the solar system is just unfeasible.
No.1492452
>>1492417Be careful of information coming from the Military, as they will try and use to as a way to instill fear in the populous. Think about it with all the alien invasion movies and the US military always being the heroes in such stories. This is them trying to be extremely hostile to visitation from space when it happens (if we don't kill ourselves first of course). Why would the military support this other than trying to get more money from the government to militarize Space, which would be a slap in the face to what the Outer Space Treaty was meant to be.
No.1492458
>>1492417I said in another thread that I can't follow the UFO circuit much because it's like 70% unmedicated schizos, 25% grifters and 5% military psyops. It's, like, I wanna believe but until the little green men land on Tiananmen Square to meet President Xi then what more is there to it really?
On the military psyop thing, I don't think "it's an op" in the sense of distracting someone from what's going on the news – the news itself seems to be enough of a distraction (…if you ask me!) and now this is CNN-approved news. But it's an interesting coincidence there has been a surge in UFO stuff with the beginning of the "new Cold War."
One wonders about the relationship or the purpose of such a psyop, like an obvious one is a rationale for no-questions-asked defense cash for more boondoggle projects in a vague way, as a cover for military aerospace experimentation, and interrelated with Air Force / Space Force computer janitors playing up a fanciful image of what they do all day categorizing radar blips and blurry photos of pointless crap hoovered up by the empire's total sensory overload of constant obsessive surveillance. Oh and also of course, to the public, it gives a fanciful entertaining flair to accept their passive submission to said surveillance and dominance.
Lastly, as a wasteland for anti-government sentiment (UFO theories are often tied up with right-wing defense narratives, racist beliefs about Aryan aliens or hidden Nazi flying saucers in Antarctica, and heaps of paranoia/infighting – all pretty counter to any productive collective organizing).
So I think we can only hope the REAL aliens they're trying to distract us from show up to protect us from our corrupt leaders.
>Oh look, the UFO – now that we have your attention – is a Chinese communist spy balloon *shoots it down* this is an attack on America we have to close the balloon gap, ahem, excuse me the UFO gap<Hmm now that I read about it, I guess you're right Butthole FlagYou're welcome OP but you don't have to thank me, I like to be humble about this.
No.1492460
I thought this place would be better than to dedicate a thread to this psy op
>>1492438
TPBP
>What is true
The US Army is reverse engineering alien aircraft capable of interstellar travel.
They are in contact with both peaceful and malicious aliens.
All nations have recovery teams for craft, the problem is reverse engineering them.
This is just the tip of the iceberg and it gets much worse.
>Why this is a psy op though
"OMG GUYS I CAN'T JUST RELEASE THE ACTUAL DOCUMENTS BECAUSE MUH NATIONAL SECURITY I MAY BE A WHISTLE BLOWER BUT I'M STILL A BOOT LICKER UGGUUU"
"NO OF COURSE I DON'T HAVE PHOTOS OF THE CRAFT"
>DOD documents explicitly state compliance with documents release DOES NOT mean that any of the information if factual or endorsed by the DOD
Basically it's a dripping of info the public already knew long ago as a psy op for an ulterior reason.
No.1492461
The disclosure project is financed by the Rockefeller Foundation, UFO hype is a purely western phenomenon because there is no science only propaganda behind it, stop falling for porkie disinfo.
You're not only ruining the good reputation of conspiracy theorists by promoting this shit but also pushing the NWO agenda because
"we need world government to defend against dem ebil aliens, close the hyperspace borders now why hasn't anyone built a wall yet????!!!!"https://www.corbettreport.com/how-to-fake-an-alien-invasion-video/ No.1492468
>>1492461…and not to toot my own horn, but a year or two ago I speculated what The Next Big Crisis™ might be.
- Scamdemic? We just had one
- Muslim/Nazi Terrorism? Nah, they all went into homeoffice during the lockdown and people were waking up to the fakery anyway
- AGW? Nah, they even had to stop their
"children-are-evil-co2-producers" propaganda and mobilize some of those for protests because virtually no-one takes that shit seriously anymore
- Aliens? We haven't had an "invasion" since 2012 so that seems reasonable
No.1492474
>>1492460>Basically it's a dripping of info the public already knew long ago as a psy op for an ulterior reasonWhat reason would they have for investigating themselves really? I could see a controlled leak of some fake classified info, but the funding angle doesn't make sense. They drum up cash for military whenever they please already, they wouldnt need to waste their time with congress boomers asking them questions for it. There are also multiple intelligence officials corroborating it and journalists behind it, so whatever the reason for the psyop it has to be big, much bigger than more money. Maybe theyre planning on nuking russia who knows, or maybe they really do have alien craft.
No.1493195
>>1492461>You're not only ruining the good reputation of conspiracy theorists by promoting this shit but also pushing the NWO agenda because "we need world government to defend against dem ebil aliens, close the hyperspace borders now why hasn't anyone built a wall yet????!!!!"Oh shit this is about creating a one world government. Okay I'm on board now. No more borders, one currency and no more praying to the flag 5 times a day. Especially if the goal is to unite humanity to achieve FTL. You're the one giving conspiracy theories a bad name, the exact type as this Anon point out 👉
>>1492458
>Lastly, as a wasteland for anti-government sentiment (UFO theories are often tied up with right-wing defense narratives, racist beliefs about Aryan aliens or hidden Nazi flying saucers in Antarctica, and heaps of paranoia/infighting – all pretty counter to any productive collective organizing).Anyways, idk what any of this is. I want it to be aliens but it'd extremely disheartening if we find out we had proof of aliens and even debris from a ship and this is how the world has been acting. We should be begging the aliens for help.
No.1493205
>>1493204>stages>giant fuel tankslmao just make a space elevator
No.1493209
Why are aliens so bad at regular flight that they keep crashing their shit for humans to recover? And why don't they wear any clothes? Pretty rude to show up as guests to our planet butt naked.
No.1493214
>>1493205Space elevator isn't getting you to the next star. That is a concept for a nuclear powered interstellar spacecraft. It would be built in space. The tanks are full of highly compressed hydrogen. The first stage is for acceleration then it splits off and flips to burn for deceleration.
No.1493264
>>1493204This is correct, assuming that we do not acquire warp drive (Alcubierre drive) enabling faster-than-light travel or anti-matter spacecraft. The most likely way we will venture to the stars will be through fusion spacecraft. There are alternatives to this such as the Orion Drive (autism-level nuclear bomb spacecraft) along with laser-powered solar sails.
- aerospace engineer
No.1493295
>>1493264Laser for acceleration, torch drive for deceleration, build a laser on the other side, you now have a cheap way of travelling between two stars. But first we should build telescopes that make JWST look like a toy to recon interesting destinations.
No.1493316
>>1493214but why such an overcompensating thruster? in space a tiny thruster is better than a huge one, less mass and eventually gets you just as fast
No.1493391
>>1493316its a fusion nuclear pulse engine. Basically it shoots out pellets of compressed hydrogen and ignites them in a nuclear flash with lasers. Basically a step up from an Orion drive with physical mini nukes and a pusher plate. Can either do 12% light speed on a flyby without stopping or 7% using it's second stage to slow down.
No.1493399
It's all fake until proven beyond a reasonable doubt otherwise. If aliens are real then I find it unlikely that they'd focus only on the USA like this. Other countries would also have UFO stuff if aliens actually were in contact. This seems like burger media frenzy over some rogue glowies setting themselves up for a later bestseller book and TV show.
If we do get "proof" of aliens there's about an 80% chance it's a CIA fabrication to get more defense money.
No.1493436
>>1493170Idk if anybody already said it but why would the US in particular do psyops about UFOs? It all kicked off during the Cold War when an important part of their ideological posturing was being Christian, and ayy lmaos were always seen as a challenge to that.
No.1493893
>>1492417I suspect it's another guy bullshitting for attention or a distraction campaign . What, because he used to work in government that makes him somehow more credible? Likely story.
A few things don't add up. If these alien craft are getting recovered, that means they have crashed. Why would an advanced alien spacecraft capable of traversing the galaxy suddenly crash on earth? The technology must be very advanced.
Secondly, if the govt has been collecting crashed objects for decades, it stands to reason that they have been hitting the earth with some frequency. Would the government be there on the scene first in all cases? Wouldn't some private entity or individual recover it first in at least a few cases?
Thirdly, knowing the US government this exotic technology would instantly be put to use for military applications. Have we seen any signs of materials or weaponry out of keeping with everything else they use? No.
Fourthly, why is it only the US govt that has anything to say about this? Presumably, there would be many crashes in China, Australia, and Russia, given the vast tracts of land within those countries' borders.
Fifthly, there is no solid evidence, only the claims of this one washed up former intelligence spook.
No.1493981
>>1493946Still, observation is one thing, *recovery* of crashed vehicles another. I have a hard time believing these interstellar ships would drop like flies because these aliens couldn't figure out how to enter a planet's atmosphere lol
No.1493987
>>1493946This is assuming that it's not using warp drive technology.
No.1494034
>>1492458>>1493195The US airforce is about to bust out their black ops drones because it's time for a good cargo cult.
No.1494094
>>1493987Warp drive technology that doesn't exist, anon. That's science fiction and not reality.
No.1494097
>>1494094He has a valid point however, there may be exotic means of navigation which would not be visible like nuclear detonations or torch drive plumes.
No.1494108
>>1494100I invented a warp drive a couple weeks ago. It's sitting in my garage but i took it apart cuz i had to put my graphics card back into my computer
No.1494138
>>1492417>literally all just hair-sayspare me more he-said-she-said aliums are real nonsense.
please.
No.1494168
>>1494094Is it possible though? I don't know enough about physics to say so. Spaceflight used to be science fiction
No.1494175
>>1494100Yeah it's kind of weird to assume we understand physics that well when it's only been 120 years since the first powered flight, something many people at the time thought was physically impossible.
No.1494195
>>1494100Ain't no way anybody's ever breaking the universal speed limit, sorry bud. Time travel will never be possible either for similar reasons. It's a violation of causality.
There is no magic "warp-space" for a spaceship to enter either. Wormholes, alcubierre drive, etc. all require exotic matter that doesn't exist.
No.1494206
>>1494195Maybe we're just apes living on a backwater planet and our whole understanding of the universe is extremely limited, within the frame of our very incomplete modern science sure it's impossible to break the speed limit, but by the same standards we aren't even sure this limit is the same everywhere, there a few varying c cosmologies models out there.
No.1494210
>>1494195Ain't no way anybody's ever generating lift in the atmosphere, sorry bud.
Ain't no way anybody's ever building a ship that can cross the ocean, sorry bud.
Ain't no way anybody's ever climbing over those mountains at the edge of the known world, sorry bud.
Ain't no way anybody's ever leaving the cave, sorry bud.
No.1494211
>>1494206FTL state transfer already been demonstrated through quantum entanglement. The entangled quanta are essentially identical but occupy two places at the same time. However those findings are not applicable to larger bodies of matter because of how quantum effects cancel out at larger scales. Still, maybe we can rule out the idea that entanglement and tunneling of physical macrostructures is physically impossible, or maybe our puny brains just haven't figured out how to synchronize and channel quantum effects to achieve the equivalent of teleportation of massive objects.
Then again, these are unidentified flying objects. Did they fly here or teleport?
No.1494222
>>1494210>because mankind has ever overcame prior obstacles, faster than light travel will be achieved.There were no laws of physics preventing anything that you mentioned, anon. The laws of physics do not bend themselves to human willpower and thus humanity won't travel faster than photons just because we want to.
People doubting something does not make it true! That is crypto bro logic.
No.1494229
>>1494222>There were no laws of physics preventing anything that you mentioned, anon.Laws of physics are not divine wisdom. They are the best understanding that we have at the moment, and they are constantly subject to change. The error that people have always made is to assume that current knowledge shows the full picture of what is and is not possible.
No.1494237
>>1494222The main reason the current consensus thinks it isn't possible is special relativity, of which a negation is violating the law of causality. But many scientists have proposed loopholes for that, if that ever is possible for humans, I don't know, but I am sure that these theorems are not the end of all human scientific discovery for the next 1000 years if we are still around at that point.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Faster-than-light No.1494239
>>1494229>constantly subject to changeSpecial Relativity is established fact. It is fact that moving faster than c is travel in time and a breach of causality and this will not change as it's effects have been observed. What is not known is the quantum scale of all of this (i.e we don't have a full quantum theory of gravity). This does not leave room for macroscopic time travel and traveling faster than c.
From wikipedia:
<But at macroscopic scales and in the absence of strong gravitational fields, special relativity is experimentally tested to extremely high degree of accuracy (10−20)[70] and thus accepted by the physics community. Experimental results which appear to contradict it are not reproducible and are thus widely believed to be due to experimental errors. Change in these theories will be akin to revising the shape of the earth from a sphere to an oblate spheroid, not throwing out the ideas of causality and c as a universal speed limit altogether.
No.1494240
>>1494237 (me)
And throughout human history people have treated the scientific consensus just as divine truth like you, from the geocentric worldview to quantum physics. It just fucking arrogant to assume we have reached the end of scientific history.
No.1494241
>>1494239>moving faster than c is travel I don't think anybody denies that but time travel into the future is not creating an impossible paradox. I don't think time travel into the past would be possible.
No.1494242
>>1494241Time travel into the future is incredibly mundane and happens all of the time (it's just normal time passing).
Increased or decreased travel into the future is also a part of relativity (Time Dilation) and is directly observed since satellites have to correct for this in their timekeeping. When I refer to time travel & breaching causality I am referring to time travel into the past obviously.
No.1494245
>>1492417There have been countless people claiming inside knowledge. It's hilarious seeing normies getting exposed to decades old aspects of UFO lore for the first time.
I personally think UFOs are just disinfo to cover antigravity tech the military has had since the 1950s.
No.1494280
>>1493893>A few things don't add up. If these alien craft are getting recovered, that means they have crashed.No, they could have been shot down, handed over, previously abandoned etc
Why would an advanced alien spacecraft capable of traversing the galaxy suddenly crash on earth? The technology must be very advanced.
Nobody says they're space aliens, nobody said anything about a crash
>Secondly, if the govt has been collecting crashed objects for decades, it stands to reason that they have been hitting the earth with some frequency. Would the government be there on the scene first in all cases? Wouldn't some private entity or individual recover it first in at least a few cases?See above, we don't know anything about the circumstances of the recoveries. Perhaps they lift the things from the bottom of the sea; perhaps they are the only ones who know where to look. The US gubbiment sits on a lot of information these days
>Thirdly, knowing the US government this exotic technology would instantly be put to use for military applications. Have we seen any signs of materials or weaponry out of keeping with everything else they use? No.If an F-35 crashed on North Sentinel Island, do you think the islanders would build their own fighter jets a few decades later?
all in all I agree with you THOUGH No.1494494
>>1494280Yeah I agree with all these points. I dont believe in ayylmaos at all but that's only because I've never seen the slightest bit of actually compelling evidence. These latest stories seem slightly different, it being an op of some kind is ultimately far more likely, and the chances of it being any other explanation fill out most of the rest of likelihood, but the fact that in this case it seems there's a shred of reasonable doubt is still really catching my eye and I'll be following.
No.1494646
>>1494240Still interesting to theorise how it can happen within our paradigm. But yeah, bold to assume we are the end when we haven't even breached the gap between special relativity and quantum mechanics
No.1496219
Crashed UFO recovered by the US military 'distorted space and time,' leaving one investigator 'nauseous and disoriented' when he went in and discovered it was much larger inside than out, attorney for whistleblowers revealshttps://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12175195/Crashed-UFO-recovered-military-distorted-space-time.htmlAyys have mastered time and space, they can just teleport to us in a tylenol sized capsule with a 100 ayys in it
No.1496221
>>1496214they need the next happooning, fast. the alien gambit is certainly a surprise
No.1496223
>>1496218Maybe ayys are just a future civilization of angloids and only visit angloid nations for novelty
No.1496226
>>1496214The gayyliens have seen the poor conditions we subject their fabulous kin to and have given a declaration of war
No.1496227
>>1496221How is ayy news going to save their economy? Perhaps theyll blame capitalisms collapse on ayy intervention
No.1496229
>>1496223nah, it's just a cultural obsession of the imperial core which is frequently used as a distraction by the burger government.
I'd sooner believe octopuses were building seacraft than I'd believe ayys were coming from a galaxy far
No.1496241
If the alien invasion is really happening, it's most likely because we set off an inescapable climate change feedback loop that will extinguish our species. If it was about extermination, it would be trivial for them to do. If it was about imperialism, they could have conquered and enslaved us much earlier when we had lesser ability to fight back.
Assuming this isn't blue beans psyops, I wonder if the ayys initially thought humanity would come around but now realize that is never going to happen and that ignorance and evil reign in the human species.
No.1496242
>>1496218>ayys haven't visited. it's always a distraction.These aren't mutually exclusive. Lots of real things get used for that kind of purpose like 9/11 or mass shootings. The US hyping it up doesn't mean it's fake.
It's interesting how people frame the topic along the lines of "how could they keep this a secret?" too, but like… it's not? Everyone and their dog knows there's flying saucers in Area 51, it's just that it's seen as a joke. Whether the idea of UFOs and contact is a secret is way beyond a moot point. This kind of stuff being unknown to the public was never a consideration. The only consideration was how the narrative was shaped. And much like disinformation works in general now, you can discredit people talking about open secrets if you flood the discussion with schizo bullshit and turn the topic into a joke so nobody would take whistleblowers seriously. Keeping a lid on physical evidence is still pretty hard, but it's a lot easier than keeping people quiet and easier still if they know that in addition to personal consequences they'd face, nobody would believe them anyway if they leaked anything. And eery time somebody comes forward claiming to have information and get publicly ridiculed for it, that deterrent is reinforced.
I'm not convinced there's substance to the UFO stuff but there are just parts of the whole narrative that don't seem to add up to me.
No.1496245
>>1496242A big part in my realization that it was possible for them to hide the truth for all these years is that people do not care about the truth if it is inconvenient, even if evidence beyond any doubt is presented to them. Look at how the entire human race handled COVID, climate change, demonized nuclear energy while deepthroating big oil's cock.
>we will kill you, your friends, your family and nobody will believe you anywaysis one hell of a deterrence to being a whistle blower, especially with how hard it is to actually get physical evidence of something from a locked down military site.
No.1496263
>>1496241Posadas was right???
No.1496265
>>1496242I feel like theres def some weird unexplained shit in the sky but your a mark if you think the US military will give you a straight answer on what it is. Now if both the american and chinese govs say the same shit it might not be a nothingburger
No.1496270
>>1494168No
It breaks causality. Science isn't magic and is restricted to the physical limits of the universe.
No.1496273
>>1493981Maybe the ships were gifted to us intentionally, but the US is hoarding it instead. Or maybe they were always meant to crash land here like a portal or something
No.1496274
>>1496272If theyve really visited here, there is no doubt that we are merely their lab rats in some way or another. They could be controlling everything, evolution itself could be manipulated by them periodically in some way or another, those 'random' mutations getting less random.
No.1496278
>>1496273>Or maybe they were always meant to crash land here like a portal or somethingWell not to get too crazy with it, but if the whole "bigger on the inside" thing is true then that definitely would mean some kind of altered spacetime and possibly a wormhole or something like that. One of the things that I've heard claimed was that the "ships" that are bigger on the inside are used by the military for more efficient transport like it's a bag of holding from D&D lol.
>>1496274Well yeah the question would be what their interest is if any. If they're advanced enough for space travel then presumably they'd have some idea of scientific rigor and would follow some kind of procedure. If you've seen enough life on other planets though you might know how things tend to go and be able to intervene to shape the outcome. Personally I suspect life is pretty common in the universe (at least for a species capable of easy interstellar travel) so we're probably not very interesting.
No.1496281
>>1493436>why would the US in particular do psyops about UFOs?Protecting military technology. While it is true they were basically opposed to the "UFO" narrative during the 40s/50s, but they later began to exploit it to hide things they didn't want the public to know. The best known case of this is Paul Bennewitz; that case, and many of the people connected to it, created a large part of the modern "UFO"/"alien" mythology.
Some of the people involved (like Tom DeLonge) seem to be fostering a kind of passive, dependent attitude through this mythology as well. This is a section from a book by Jacques Vallee written decades ago, but it answers your question more generally:
>I still have a lot to learn from Major Murphy. Among the lessons he taught me was the art of recognizing some of the shadowy figures who had infiltrated the UFO groups. He told me what a “vacuum cleaner” was, and a “little aunt”; he told me how “cut-outs” worked. I started looking all over. I went to the library and read some old UFO books again. I went to used book stores and bought contactee pamphlets of the fifties that I had never read, because their pseudo-mystical verbiage seemed ridiculous to me at the time. I checked the lists of trustees, directors, and advisers of the major UFO groups. Some aspects of the mystery became a little clearer when their names were checked against the computer data base of the New York Times, or in such commonly available references as Who’s Who. Others became more obscure and bizarre. I resigned from the supposedly “scientific” UFO organizations with which I had been affiliated.>A “vacuum cleaner” is an agent who is trained to pick your brains. Some day, someone will come and see you under perfectly natural circumstances, and ask you some questions. It may be an attractive coed who has credentials from the local campus newspaper; it may be a middle-aged man who is the secretary of an amateur astronomy group. The excuse for the meeting is an innocuous interview.>The person in question is well-informed on the subject and has an engaging personality. After ten minutes of conversation, you are describing to him (or her) your most guarded intuitions, your innermost feelings, your future plans. The “vacuum cleaner” will take no notes, but nothing you say will be forgotten. Within a few hours, there will be a complete and accurate report on your conversation in the files of his (or her) employer.>A “little aunt” serves a different function. It may be a colleague of yours, a business associate, someone who has a good reason for staying in touch with you for a long time. The phone will ring, and the person will say, “How are you doing? We haven’t spoken for a while.” You may respond that you’ve just come back from vacation, that your cat has been sick, and that you’re excited by the recent news from Latin America. “What news from Latin America?” Soon your little aunt will know everything you are currently doing, will note if you’re happy or depressed, and generally will probe any area that may be useful for updating your file: to check if your research is moving into areas of interest, either to you – or to them.>Most UFO organizations are led by people who are independent and sincere. In the cynical and blunt terminology of Intelligence, I have heard them referred to as “useful idiots.” They believe in what they do in a blind and automatic fashion. Can they help it if they need an escape from the routine of their daily existence? Such sincere individuals are surrounded with people who have links to the world of espionage or to military intelligence. I found that some of the links were open and obvious: for instance, the Board of Directors of NICAP lists among its members the former head of the CIA. Sometimes the link is less obvious, but is known to members of the organization, who admit it when confronted with the fact. When you read a report on a UFO case written by someone who was trained as a field collector by the government, the contrast (in both form and content) to a report written in the erratic spelling and incoherent syntax used by the average ufologist is fairly obvious. In yet other groups, the link to such an organization can only be suspected. But the conclusion is inescapable: all the UFO groups are closely watched by several agencies. Why? And why is the relationship between UFO groups and occult organizations so evident?>The Major has a simple answer. He suggests that the “spooks” use the UFO groups to get information that is marginally useful to them, information that the group leaders themselves may not recognize as being important or relevant. And they use occult organizations as they always have, since the days of Dr. John Dee and Jacques Casanova: as a cover for their own designs. Some of the activities of the UFOs, which make no sense to the civilian groups, may be highly significant to an intelligence analyst who can correlate them with other data, such as infrared satellite scans of specific areas of the planet, or radioactivity measurements. A link with a national UFO organization will save the analyst’s employer the trouble of training and deploying field agents, or it will provide information to supplement their reports. In France, some UFO cases have been investigated by five government agencies. The witness of the Valensole case even had to answer questions from customs agents, who thought the object he had seen might have been a helicopter engaged in gold contraband.>There is another, well-documented, reason for all the attention that civilian movements receive from various agencies: the social influence of such groups can be manipulated for political reasons. One of the recommendations of a recently declassified CIA/USAF panel on UFOs, which met in 1953, was precisely to monitor the activities of civilian groups:<The Panel took cognizance of the existence of such groups as the “Civilian Flying Saucer Investigators” of Los Angeles and the “Aerial Phenomena Research Organization” (Wisconsin). It was believed that such organizations should be watched because of their great influence on mass thinking if widespread sightings should occur. The apparent irresponsibility and the possible use of such groups for subversive purposes should be kept in mind.1>Similar feelings have often been expressed in socialist countries. In 1976, an article in the youth newspaper Komsomolskaya Pravda, by writer Yeremei Parnov, implied that those who spread UFO stories are “flirting with superstitions and religious impulses indirectly manipulated by the Pentagon.” The goal of the manipulation, according to Parnov, is to frighten American citizens into approving the growth of defense spending and to use “the specter of flying saucers to fan the Cold War.”>In a press release dated March 29, 1976, two futurologists predicted that the present world political order would be transformed into an economically integrated, largely capitalist society. Such phenomena as UFOs were messages from higher intelligent beings signaling the peaceful political transformation of Man, they said.2>This history of the interaction between flying-saucer contact and politics goes way back, to the early California contactees. In those days many occult groups linked to power-hungry organizations were extremely active. Right after World War II, when a branch of Aleister Crowley’s O.T.O. [Ordo Templi Orientis. Aleister Crowley, by the way, was himself a minor espionage figure (his file at the Intelligence Service is said to have read, “Use only with the most extreme caution”), whose influence on Hitler was more imaginary than real.] flourished in Los Angeles, two of the most ardent members were Jack W. Parsons, a propulsion engineer, and L. Ron Hubbard, a science-fiction buff. Jack Parsons met a Venusian in the desert in 1946, and went on to be one of the founders of the Jet Propulsion Laboratory and of the Aerojet Corporation.>Another contactee, Daniel Fry, was an Aerojet employee when he saw his first saucer in 1950. Ron Hubbard, on the other hand, founded Dianetics and, later, the Church of Scientology. [See John Keel, Our Haunted Planet (N.Y.: Fawcett, 1971), p. 127.]>According to some of my own informants, contactee George Adamski had prewar connections with American fascist leader William Dudley Pelley, who was interned during the war. Another seminal contactee, George Hunt Williamson (whose real name is Michel d’Obrenovic), was associated with Pelley’s organization, “Soulcraft,” in the early fifties. In fact, Pelley may have put Williamson in touch with Adamski. Other associates of Williamson during the great era of the flying saucers were such contactees as John McCoy and the two Stanford brothers, Ray and Rex.>The connections between all these men, who have been influential in shaping the UFO myth in the United States, are quite intricate. William Dudley Pelley, who died in 1965, was the leader of the Silver Shirts, an American Nazi group which began its activities about 1932. Its membership overlapped strongly with Guy Ballard’s “I Am” movement. Pelley declined to join the other fascist groups in their support for Congressman Lemke in 1936, standing on his own in Indiana as a “Christian Party” candidate. His opposition to Roosevelt increased until his eight-year internment for sedition in 1942. After the war, he started an occult group, Soulcraft, and published a racist magazine called Valor. He also wrote the book Star Guests in 1950, a compilation of automatic writing reminiscent of the Seth Material.>It was about 1950 that Williamson is said to have begun working for Pelley at the offices of Soulcraft Publications, in Noblesville, Indiana, before moving to California, where he witnessed Adamski’s desert contact on November 20, 1952, with a Venusian with long blond hair. Perhaps Adamski and Pelley knew one another as a result of their common interest in the I Am cult? Dr. Laughead, who inspired the contacts of Mrs. Keech in the Midwest3 and later launched Dr. Andrija Puharich on the tracks of the mythic “Spectra,” is also thought to have associated with this group.>John McCoy, who coauthored with Williamson the book UFOs Confidential, operated the Essene Press. He introduced into the picture the idea that the Jewish Banker conspiracy was involved in the UFO problem. The Stanford brothers were living in the same Texas town as McCoy (Corpus Christi), and in the mid-fifties produced a series of contact books, one of which had McCoy as coauthor.>The Stanfords’ book, Look Up!, acknowledges “all those who helped in preparation of this book, and the people of other planets who made the contacts described.” Ray Stanford states that in December 1954 he received “a very distinct telepathic message from the space people” and he adds,<During 1955 I also had a personal contact with two space men…the contacts were not very frequent during 1955 and the first six months of 1956, but beginning in June 1956, things really started popping.4>Their book includes many allusions to impending social change, and it encourages the readers to prepare themselves:<If we desire to prepare for future changes to occur on Earth, not merely for the sake of physical survival, but rather to be able to further serve in more adequate ways than ever before, there are definite things we must understand.>Among these lessons is the realization that science is inadequate, according to the Stanfords:<Man incessantly on Earth has tried by science and other methods of investigation to go from effect to cause in solving problems. The Brothers and Masters of our own planet tell us that we must look within.5>Today Rex Stanford has become a “scientific” parapsychologist, and Ray, in a remarkable reversal of his earlier position about the inadequacy of science, operates a UFO detection station using donated electronic equipment. Installed in Austin, Texas, the organization uses an apparently “scientific” approach to the identification of UFOs.>I find some curious analogies between the statements of these contactee organizations and those of Bob Barry, the director of the “Twentieth Century UFO Bureau,” headquartered in Collingswood, N.J. The Bureau is one of the groups that compose the fundamentalist religious organization headed by the Reverend Carl McIntire.>Barry stated in June 1978 that he had three excellent sources, one in government, the others retired from highly sensitive positions, who asserted that the government was quite concerned with the UFO problem and had recovered a total of 18 bodies after UFO crashes. An interesting belief of Mr. Barry is that the movie Close Encounters of the Third Kind was part of a government plan to condition the public. “The plan in this country is on schedule,” Barry said in an interview with Edgar Williams of the Knight News Service. “Three years ago it was decided to do TV documentaries and observe public reaction.”>Could the movie by Alan Sandler Productions, UFOs: Past, Present, and Future, have been such a test? Barry observes that reaction was good:<So the next step was the film Close Encounters. Now, in a little while, there doubtless will be the beginning of government advisories that UFOs are indeed with us.>Everyone is now so anxious to see the government “reveal” this long-awaited information that no one questions the reality of the basic facts and the political motivations that could inspire a manipulation of those facts. Trying to outsmart the CIA and the Pentagon has become such a national pastime that lawsuits against federal agencies under the Freedom of Information Act have begun to accumulate. All that has been shown so far is that these agencies were involved – often covertly – in aspects of the UFO problem. I suspect that they are still involved. But the UFO enthusiasts who are so anxious to “expose” the government have not reflected that they may, once again, be playing into the hands of the manipulators. No.1496329
>>1496281If anything this works as a counterargument against the idea that it's all military astroturf. Specifically how these UFO groups have authentic/organic leadership and the feds are working with a light touch. If it was all astroturfed by them you'd expect more involvement. The way it's described they were taking advantage of an already existing phenomenon just like with the occult people.
The excerpt also describes how UFOs attract schizos and rightoids like flies, but that goes for plenty of other things too, like history.
>Trying to outsmart the CIA and the Pentagon has become such a national pastime that lawsuits against federal agencies under the Freedom of Information Act have begun to accumulate.This line in particular seems to reveal a certain bias on the part of the author, I mean really? It's one thing to do guilt-by-association with UFO nuts and a handful of nazis among them. It's another to lump people making FOIA requests in with UFO schizos. I mean come on.
>All that has been shown so far is that these agencies were involved – often covertly – in aspects of the UFO problem.Well yeah, but as said before this would be expected regardless of what version of the story is true. You could interpret glowie involvement as astroturfing, engaging in persistent coverups, or both. And from the sound of it, if they're not getting something really valuable out of this (like maintaining cover for something big) the project sounds like a massive boondoggle (not out of character for these people to be fair). It kind of strains credulity to think that they could get better intel on observing secret, advanced military systems from local yahoos looking for lights in the sky than from experts or instruments that actually know what they're looking for. And if anything, wouldn't encouraging people to do UFO-spotting as a hobby increase the chances of blowing cover on some secret weapons project?
No.1496367
>>1496329>If anything this works as a counterargument against the idea that it's all military astroturfOnly if you're really wanting to believe otherwise. But I will say I do think a small part of it is "true," in the sense that "something happens, people can't explain it." This is also what the author believes; he's not a "skeptic" in the sense of total denial. From all the books and articles I've read, though, the "UFO"/"alien" narrative is largely a work, a "mythology." We went through this same fake build-up for a revelation, I think, two or three years ago now? I predicted there would be nothing at the time and, of course, nothing.
>It's another to lump people making FOIA requests in with UFO schizosThat isn't what he's implying. That sentence is connected to the preceding one, and he's talking about FOIA requests and lawsuits attempting to get the US government to "reveal" its supposed knowledge of space aliens.
>It kind of strains credulity to think that they could get better intel on observing secret, advanced military systems from local yahoos looking for lights in the sky than from experts or instruments that actually know what they're looking for. It might strain credulity, but it was actually the case. There was some letter ring at one point related to observations like this toward the end of the Cold War. This isn't because they're "better"; it's because experts generally aren't looking for "mysterious lights in the sky" but target particular phenomena, and because those that do look for such things can't be everywhere at once while intelligence can come from anywhere. Also, experts aren't who you'd ask if you were a spy from a foreign power. That is, it's mostly counterintelligence - spying to make sure information isn't leaked (whether to other intelligence agencies or to the wider public) - and UFO circles are very much where you'd go to spot possible leaks like this.
No.1496391
>>1492417You guys are all Fucking Schizos. Aliens don't exist anywhere near our planet!!!!1
No.1496393
>>1496367>Only if you're really wanting to believe otherwiseI explained exactly why the narrative in the posted text directly implies the opposite of the idea that the UFO nuts were manufactured. The text directly states that the groups are mostly organic with feds infiltrating them… Which is not how it would be if the feds had created them. IDK how it's rationalizing anything to recognize what the text says at the most surface level.
>From all the books and articles I've read, though, the "UFO"/"alien" narrative is largely a work, a "mythology."Well yeah but that's what my point was earlier - if you actually have something you're trying to hide in this area then it behooves you to flood disinformation that discredits the entire subject as crackpot. And that would be consistent with the level of interest and involvement the feds have here. Now of course there are other possible reasons why, but by no means does the manufacture of a false narrative around a topic mean that there's no underlying true narrative, or else we'd have to draw the conclusion that nothing of consequence ever happens, because all important events are having narratives manufactured around them. What you would need to show to indicate the UFO phenomenon was invented by the alphabet soup would be something like leaked documents predating public interest that point toward manufacturing the story. That's what I'm saying, that the evidence here is circumstantial and could point either way really. Which IMO is probably what the glowies want - the more they can muddy the waters the harder it is for people to figure out what's going on (whatever that might be).
>We went through this same fake build-up for a revelation, I think, two or three years ago now? I predicted there would be nothing at the time and, of course, nothing.It's been on a cycle for decades with varying degrees of intensity although afaik it is new for government agencies to make official statements about these things.
>That isn't what he's implying. That sentence is connected to the preceding one, and he's talking about FOIA requests and lawsuits attempting to get the US government to "reveal" its supposed knowledge of space aliens.I reread that part multiple times before I made the post to make sure I got it right. I'm not sure what you mean about the sentences being connected in a way that would make it only about UFO-related FOIA requests. Using a term like "national pastime" is broadening the scope of the discussion, the whole UFO thing is hardly a national pastime (it's definitely pretty fringe) but conspiracy theories and being skeptical of the CIA and Pentagon
in general is much more mainstream.
>This isn't because they're "better"; it's because experts generally aren't looking for "mysterious lights in the sky" but target particular phenomena, and because those that do look for such things can't be everywhere at once while intelligence can come from anywhere.Sure, but the amount of false positives and false negatives you'd get seems like it would really hinder the value of these reports, especially when it's a group that is notorious for false positives.
>That is, it's mostly counterintelligence - spying to make sure information isn't leakedWhich makes sense by itself, but given how large the description makes the project sound, it makes it seem like it would be very inefficient and wasteful. Which again is not inconsistent with these organizations. But if that really is the case then it seems like a pretty massive waste of resources, especially considering that the military projects it would be concealing also constitute massive waste (if the track record of the MIC and top secret projects are anything to go by). That in itself could be a massive scandal which would warrant paying close attention to all this.
No.1496412
>>1496391that sounds like what an ayyy would say
No.1496418
>>1496378well apparently its going through official channels to congress and includes classified information, but unless that classified information specifically and consistently claims the existence of a non-human intelligence it will most likely be a nothingburger. even in the case that it does, without hard evidence made public theres no way to know whether its some wacky psyop
No.1496436
>>1496241I like the idea that it's mostly unmanned observation drones sent to record the death throes of civilization.
No.1496699
>>1496571>always a blurry photo>always a wobbly videoIn this day and age as well, when there are phones with decent recording capabilities everywhere.
It's like if someone tried to make the Mechanical Turk hoax nowadays but you are not allowed to ever look inside or examine it in any way that reveals the workings of it. But instead of playing chess, the thing just produces the sort of generative results that current AI tech does and answers softball questions while claiming to have all the answers a sci-fi AI would. Then everyone is content with no useful questions ever being asked, no breakthroughs resulting from it and the thing repeating thinly veiled US propaganda.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechanical_Turk No.1496705
Not that I would know exactly how a hyper advanced alien civilization would go about contacting a less developed planet.
But I think the last thing they would do is slam one of their ships into the backyard of a Las Vegas suburb and then walk around before disappearing.
No.1496707
>>1496562You really believe this?
No.1496776
From plebbit, did sovietbros know about aliens trying to interfere with out nukes?
>Grusch Interview: The Big Stuff Summary* The personnel interviewed by Grusch
shared extreme detail about the programs they are working on and Grusch found it credible.
* Grusch
investigated this topic for 4 years before believing it is credible and 100% factual then submitted a report to DOD Oversight Director which in 2023 determined it as
“Credible and urgent”. This has been forwarded to Congress.
* Grusch has known Kirkpatrick for eight years and has discussed the subject with him.
Grusch is unsure why Kirkpatrick has not contacted Grusch on this matter or why key evidence has not been presented.
* [1933 craft recovered in Italy by ᴉuᴉlossnW's forces](
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/145lerp/blonde_blueeyed_and_large_foreheads_the_italian/) in "1944 OR 1945" - Grusch was unsure, so this lines up with a historical anachronism. We can assume 1945, aligned with history.
Grusch showcased a hand-written memo in Italian that also contained small drawings at the bottom as proof.
*
The Vatican informed the US of what the Italian government had in its possession. The Vatican helped suppress this find. This means, The Vatican does indeed know NHI (NON-HUMAN INTELLIGENCE) exist and is actively covering this up.
* NHI
may be alien, may be interdimensional or both.
*
Football-field-sized craft have been sighted. Multiple operational craft have been recovered. It's unclear if the football-field-sized craft is the alleged 30-ft diameter craft that apparently contained a ["football field sized interior"](
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/1465c4n/exclusive_crashed_ufo_recovered_by_the_us/) that was recently disclosed. Alternatively, it may be this craft is the [Indonesian UAP that allegedly was smuggling drugs and weapons](
https://www.reddit.com/r/UFOs/comments/145e9ys/a_former_marine_claims_he_and_five_comrades_saw_a/) that was reported this week. We don't yet know the context of where it was seen. It may have been seen in a US facility or not.
* "Quite a number" of crafts have been recovered by the US.
At least 12 according to Grusch. Other sources claim many more than this.
* NHI occupant
bodies have been recovered.
* It's somewhat implied that the US government may have an
existing formal relationship/agreement with some NHI factions. "Agreements that risk putting our future in jeopardy". It remains unclear if Grusch was making the implication or if Coulthart was jumping to that conclusion and trying to get Grusch to fill in the blanks.
*
Not all factions are peaceful \- but the extent of why/how is not elaborated on.
*
Kirkpatrick is lying by means of omission to Congress. AARO needs to be held to account.
* The
US government have killed people to keep this information suppressed.
*
Nukes are an ongoing concern to NHI.
*
Private enterprise are working with this technology. Aerospace and defence projects.
* The events of
Roswell 1947 happened. Subsequent addendums by the US government were part of a disinformation campaign that continues to today.
* An
ongoing broad UFO disinformation campaign is being perpetrated by the US government. As part of this campaign, Grusch claims
some "true" or factual intel has been presented or pushed, along with false claims or disinformation in an effort to muddy the narrative.
*
Grusch has seen/verified the evidence to back these claims. Has seen
"photos and documents". His job was essentially to research and corroborate witness testimony, which led him here.
* Grusch stated there were
techniques to bring down these UAPs. This implies that there are crafts that the US has brought down forcefully by some means.
* There are also
craft that were left or given to us for whatever reason. There were also partially damaged craft (including the 1933 craft recovered in Italy).
* Grusch mentioned
people working with these recovered UAPs have gotten sick. He did not elaborate how specifically or what work was being done that might have caused this.
* Grusch highlighted the possibility
that private industry could make a breakthrough and sell it back to the government. Give this has been funded by tax payer money, it is unethical and needs oversight. This also implies this technology is/could already be in the hands of private enterprise and there may be advancements sufficient to on-sell the technology.
* Grusch alluded to
China's willingness to throw bodies at reverse engineering and finding success. This might also provide a speculative rationale for why we're speeding up disclosure: the
need to compete with a foreign power for tech superiority.
* In 1971,
the USA and USSR signed a treaty explicitly stating that both nuclear powers would confirm if UFOs or similar breached nuclear facility airspace and/or caused malfunctions that might trigger arming/disarming of nuclear weapons.
This was cited as proof of ongoing UFO/UAP interference and knowledge by both superpowers of the situation and reality.
* Grusch alleges that
Russia and China are in a Cold War over this technology.
* The
DOD determine what specific points David Grusch is cleared to talk about and what breaches national security or classified intel. Who or how they make that distinction (or why) is unclear.
* The videos released by the pentagon in 2020 were “just the tip of the iceberg” and he claims that
additional video (or other) evidence exists that are far more extraordinary. This also speaks to the fact that he has seen these pieces of video with his own eyes.
* Coulhart mentioned
Grusch is starting his own science foundation. Was not mentioned if this would be a continuation of his current knowledge or expanding into different aspects of the scientific community.
*
AARO does not have the adequate security clearance (it has Title 10, needs Title 50) in order to actually investigate some of the operations that the crash retrieval program falls under - This has been also reported by Coulthart independently.
* Grusch says he will
"Make myself available to Secretary of Defense Lloyd Austin, Director of National Intelligence Avril Haines, who was a recipient of my complaints \- I'm happy to further brief elected officials on the specific ecosystem of secrecy down to the fine details."
https://www.teddit.net/r/UFOs/comments/147ch9o/grusch_interview_the_big_stuff_summary/ No.1496781
>>1496278I dont know whats more unsettling, the thought of ships that alter spacetime existing or burgers being in possession of them and using them to transport nukes and shit.
No.1496787
>>1496776The bold getting turned into spoilers really fucks up readability, but
>Grusch alluded to China's willingness to throw bodies at reverse engineering and finding success. This might also provide a speculative rationale for why we're speeding up disclosure: the need to compete with a foreign power for tech superiority.>Grusch is starting his own science foundation.is enough to make me question is motives.
No.1496788
So the dude implicated China and their willingness to reverse engineer the ufos too, could xigang already have some craft and US is breaking the news to the public to drum up more cash to beat them to the punch?
No.1496790
>>1496787He could be hoping that once he blows the lid that the glowie contractors involved might be willing to hire him for some work. Presumably because he blew up his existing career already. His motives arent clear fully, but he's putting his ass on the line too. if congress is like yeah he's crazy then he'll have no one but ufo schizos left behind him
No.1496791
reminder that DoD can't account for over 200 billion + USD when audited
No.1496794
There's def some reason glowies are planning to disclose all this. Maybe China is planning to disclose they have successfully reverse engineered a UFO and glowies are scrambling to save face.
No.1496798
Ufo anon earlier corroborates some of this
https://imgur.io/a/NXjWQaN No.1496972
If congress confirms it and releases the proof AND China corroborates it ill believe. Until then maintaing complete skepticism, too big of a thing to just got with a hunch obviously, though I cant stop thinking about the implications if its true. Even if its an op or a hoax its gonna go down as one of the biggest and stupidest of all time and make the US look like a laughing stock for a week or so, so not a total nothingburger either way
No.1497306
>>1496391> Aliens don't exist anywhere near our planetNice try, but I see through your "rational" act agent smith.
Aliens are real and live among us. You want proof? Look at pic related. A human's legs would never bent like that.
No.1497344
>>1497306its called hyperextension. My mom has it and it causes terrible arthritis when you get old.
No.1497403
>>1496972I think glowies are doing a forced reveal to get China to do the same thing because they want to spill any intelligence China might have shared with them or something. This way they can just 'leak' their data so they can get more declassified scientist labor or contractors involved or something. Its probably meant to start a cold war for top secret warfare tech. Then china will have to do the same thing by declassifying a bunch of shit to keep up, in which case glowies will swoop in and get a better idea of where they stand
No.1497882
>>1496393>I explained exactly why the narrative in the posted text directly implies the opposite of the idea that the UFO nuts were manufacturedIf you mean the original UFO enthusiasts, some definitely were. George Adamski had connections to US intelligence, in addition to fascists. The manufactured elements are inseparable from the UFO narrative as it stands; so far as an early "original" version can be spoken of, it's assembled from elements in popular pulp and science fiction stories in the decades preceding the Kenneth Arnold sighting.
>Now of course there are other possible reasons why, but by no means does the manufacture of a false narrative around a topic mean that there's no underlying true narrativeI'm not denying that some people do experience something; I'm denying the UFO "alien" narrative specifically.
>the more they can muddy the waters the harder it is for people to figure out what's going on Yes, and the UFO alien narrative is itself one way they muddy the water, although they apparently use others. Another they seem to be manipulating is the "UFOs are demonic" theory, although it wasn't itself created by them.
>I reread that part multiple times before I made the post to make sure I got it right.He said:
<Everyone is now so anxious to see the government “reveal” this long-awaited information that no one questions the reality of the basic facts and the political motivations that could inspire a manipulation of those facts. Trying to outsmart the CIA and the Pentagon has become such a national pastime that lawsuits against federal agencies under the Freedom of Information Act have begun to accumulate. All that has been shown so far is that these agencies were involved – often covertly – in aspects of the UFO problem.The first sentence refers to the quotation above it, regarding the US supposedly being close to revealing something significant about UFOs. The third sentence makes it clear that he's talking about FOIA requests regarding UFOs. If it were conspiracies in general (or everyone who makes FOIA requests), "all that has been shown" wouldn't refer solely to the UFO-related requests in the third sentence (given that there are many other FOIA requests unrelated to UFOs).
>it makes it seem like it would be very inefficient and wastefulPossibly, but what seems to happen is that intelligence agencies rely on retired or semi-retired agents, who then pass tips along to the agencies. It's likely some are paid for these tips, but significant resources aren't expended unless some threat is involved. The deception of Paul Bennewitz clearly did involve numerous agents and a non-trivial amount of money (e.g. the fake alien listening device), but this would be atypical.
>Sure, but the amount of false positives and false negatives you'd get seems like it would really hinder the value of these reports, especially when it's a group that is notorious for false positives.For any single report, possibly, depending on the report and the event in question, but it can confirm information already known, provide additional evidence for a theory, or suggest a direction for an investigation.
>That in itself could be a massive scandal Much less than the trillions of unaccountable dollars spent by the Pentagon over the course of decades, and even that hardly made a political blip.
No.1497951
>>1497306that's just Ehler-Danlos
No.1498129
>>1498062bro it's literally just a drone with a housing to resemble the shape of a flying saucer
No.1498135
>>1498129true but it's also like the size of a car
No.1498144
>>1498135There are plenty of large drones out there, being used for various purposes. Have been for a while. You just don't see the big ones as often because they're often not consumer products and even if they were they're really expensive.
No.1498864
So apparently an alien expert was supposed to testify in front of Congress today.
No.1498865
>>1498864Yeah, i got too shy and decided not to go. Sorry guys.
No.1499538
Throwing in that I had a pretty convincing UFO sighting about 7 years ago (when I was a younger lady of 18 years) with some old friends of mine. We were playing pokemon go at my college. I noticed it first and pointed it out to the others. It was the middle of the night, around 2330 or so and I saw 3 lights flying above the campus. At first it appeared to be helicopters flying in formation, but as I studied further it appeared that there was a solid shape between the 3 lights, like a large triangle. The starlight above it seemed to warp as it moved across the sky. I pointed it out to my friends, 5 other dudes. We were talking about it trying to figure it out. Heli's, a plane, spotlights, nothing really fit what we were seeing. Assuming it was a solid object it appeared to be low and huge but I suppose it could have been high up and absolutely massive, from my perspective if filled a space in the sky roughly the size of 4 soccer fields, atleast 30% of my view of the sky. There was a low droning sound but nothing that sounded like a helicopter, just a very low drone. We were all casually talking about it, I was pushing back on the more outlandish claims (I didn't and still mostly don't believe in aliems) but as the shape went directly overhead the triangle became completely apparent, blacking out all of the light behind it, a complete change from the previous "warping" of starlight. I felt pure dread wash over me. We all just looked up, mouths agape while it continued its path through the sky. It wasn't traveling like a plane would, as in, the "point" of the triangle was completely off center from it's direction of motion.
I have tried to logically explain this to myself many times and have had to just chalk it up to a mass delusion to move on. It really broke one of the guys I was with though. I still keep up with him occasionally and he always talks about his theories on electromagnetism and gravity and different proofs for how what we saw worked and whatever. I don't really know and probably never will but the feeling of dread it gave me never left me.
No.1501155
>>1499538It sounds legitimate to me, although I'm the alien narrative skeptic.
Probably the one thing emphasized in most (decent) books on this is that the phenomena behind UFOs and other strange encounters are essentially deceptive. This is as true of the hoaxers (of various sorts) as it is of the more inexplicable experiences; hoaxes and strange experiences can even overlap, and it's not always easy to tell where hoaxes and mistaken identifications begin and where the strangeness ends.
>It really broke one of the guys I was with though. That isn't uncommon. Many of these encounters are life-changing, to the extent that Vallee and others have guessed there's some sort of "directive," manipulative function involved. It's at least certain that many of the non-hoax accounts involve moments that are both sublime and uncanny, with the overall effect of displacing the person out of their everyday life like LSD sometimes can, typically toward goals suggested within the encounter or else by the nature of the encounter. Normally, these new directions are dead-ends, although that may be typical of breakages like this overall rather than a peculiarity of breakages from these experiences.
If they're available, it may be worth looking into flight records for that night. Even if there were a flight or flights where you were, that doesn't necessarily explain what you saw. One of the more interesting "UFO" encounters I read about involved two sightings: the first corresponded with military flights in the area that night, and everything "fit" the description of the encounter; the second was of the same "UFO" and its "aliens," yet it was in a completely different area, and the military flights couldn't have possibly gone there.
No.1515118
So did anything come out of this or is it 100% fizzle?
No.1515124
>>1515118Dunno Posadist Comrade, but I am still here waiting and wondering why we have official terms for calling Aliens non-intelligent human life, which is the most fucking dumbest thing I heard, you know what else is non-intelligent human life? Dolphins, or literally any fucking animal on Earth so that term makes no god damn sense.
Anyways back to the news, yes so I believe that there is aliens around us watching us and the Greys are in a deal with the US hence why there is a huge fucking spike of UFOs in the US than anywhere else. Secret deals of allowing the Greys to abduct humans to experiment on, and in exchange the Greys shares their tech with Military. Hence the disappearance of Eisenhower.
No.1515287
>>1515124If the 4chan poster was correct (lol) the UFOs are mostly coming from a location in the ocean. If a craft was built on earth by an alien species, is it an alien craft? If an alien species has a colony on Earth for hundreds of years or more, are they really "aliens" if they have successive generations here? And that's if they came from space in the first place.
No.1515312
>>1492417>information from the military>no actual scientific researchUhhhh, dunno, chief. I'm not denying that aliens may exist but I'm not sure whether to believe it or not. Like, it's not just finding an alien civilization with a powerful telescope. It's just some alien spaceships allegedly "crash-landing" on Earth. And I don't always believe something because "the science says so" either. I do support using Dvorak because even if it's not the fastest layout, the raw statistical data does show that it's the most efficient so it
may be faster long-term if used by a professional touch-typer.
Maybe it's the glowies who are abducting aliens and committing torture on them through anal probing. Press F for our alien comrades who became the victims of the military industrial complex.
F No.1515320
>>1515312 (cont.)
Think about it: the government committing torture and genocide over pieceful alien immigrants whose planet has collapsed due to their powerful elite destroying their ecosystem. Man…
No.1515330
>>1515124>Anyways back to the news, yes so I believe that there is aliens around us watching us and the Greys are in a deal with the US hence why there is a huge fucking spike of UFOs in the US than anywhere else. Secret deals of allowing the Greys to abduct humans to experiment on, and in exchange the Greys shares their tech with Military. Hence the disappearance of Eisenhower.That basic narrative comes out of the Paul Bennewitz circle, and it's essentially a co-creation of Bennewitz, US intelligence agencies (by themselves and through others, mainly Bill Cooper), and some of Bennewitz's devotees like John Lear. Not sure why a putative communist imageboard would be so credulous, but this board has been "surprising" me more and more every time I come back.
>>1515287>If the 4chan poster was correct (lol)You could've just stopped here. UFOs have been persistent fascist preoccupations; so is making "fringe" bullshit up to game people's interests for political (or financial) purposes. Ernst Zündel did this with UFOs as well.
No.1515332
>>1515330People have sighted UFOs since long before fascism existed, they just started interpreting them as alien spacecraft around the time people started developing aerospace technology.
No.1515334
>>1515332>People have sighted UFOs since long before fascism existedNo doubt people have spotted mysterious lights, had strange encounters, and the like, but I'm not saying that "everyone interested in UFOs is a fascist." I'm saying that they've been persistent fascist preoccupations, and they're making up shit to mine interest generated by the US military's pronouncements; that's also essentially bullshit, but it's not the same kind of bullshit.
No.1515337
>aliens are real
>they are visiting us and the US government has their crafts
>omg so true
>the pyramids could be older than egyptologists say they are
>a human civilisation could have been present during the end of the last ice age that was destroyed
>that's impossible you fucking schizo lunatic. gtfo with your ancient alien shit
I just don't understand. I really fucking don't. How can talking about alternative theories of ancient history be banned for being "schizo" and "reactionary", while threads about ALIENS being real and hundreds of people in the US government learning about it in the course of last 70 years but keeping it a secret?
That is the biggest hole in this alien theory, and one that makes me discount it. In all this time, and all these supposed craft the US government has, and contact with beings or whatever they're saying, how come there hasn't been ONE picture leaked? ONE audio recording? Not a single person out of the hundreds didn't say on their deathbed "oh yeah, btw, aliens are real. we have their ships, bodies, the works. couldn't say anything until now. bye"? Or just say it for fun and fame? Sure you might go to prison or be killed, but you'd forever be known as the guy who released the first authentic photo of an alien craft/being. Everyone would know your name and you'd be talked about for a long time.
No, all of these people are super honourable lol.
The actual implication is that the US government is so powerful, so all-knowing and all-seeing, that they can keep a secret like this for 70 years.
The fact that that US general came out and said "we don't know what they are" makes me think they know what they are, and they are not aliens. The only explanations aren't aliens or supernatural "entities".
>Russian or Chinese tech
>US tech
>some private group's tech (everything that is available to NASA, US govt, US mil, is available to private buyers with enough money)
>hallucinations due to low oxygen, pressure, Gs, etc., human brain does weird shit when body is stressed
>drugs
>implanted memories through manipulation
>plain old lies
>counter-intelligence op / psyop (if you think they can hide on that scale, you should be able to believe they can lie on that scale)
>some yet unexplained natural phenomenon
It's interesting how critical thinking goes out the window when it is something people want to be true. Why? Because there might be a chance these aliens might be benevolent and might save us? Obviously they'd be on your side.
This is how fucking god is created. lol We just need to start assuming what the aliens might want us to do, for them to like us more and increase the chances of them helping us, and that's it – we'll have ourselves a 21st century religion.
Stop with this fucking alien shit. ALL that ever was, is or ever will be (as far as you, I or anyone else is concerned) is right here on this planet. There's so much cool shit we don't know and we have an opportunity to find out, this alien shit is a distraction and a waste of time.
No.1515342
>>1515337>That is the biggest hole in this alien theory, and one that makes me discount it. In all this time, and all these supposed craft the US government has, and contact with beings or whatever they're saying, how come there hasn't been ONE picture leaked? ONE audio recording? Not a single person out of the hundreds didn't say on their deathbed "oh yeah, btw, aliens are real. we have their ships, bodies, the works. couldn't say anything until now. bye"? Or just say it for fun and fame? Sure you might go to prison or be killed, but you'd forever be known as the guy who released the first authentic photo of an alien craft/being. Everyone would know your name and you'd be talked about for a long time.A lot of people in government have said they know about ayys visiting.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/ufo/8026971/Aliens-have-deactivated-British-and-US-nuclear-missiles-say-US-military-pilots.htmlhttps://www.the-sun.com/news/us-news/3869107/witnessed-giant-ufo-shut-down-10-nukes-secret-base/https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Grusch_UFO_whistleblower_claims No.1515346
>>1515332>People have sighted UFOs correction: people have
seen shit for a long time. We put these sightings into one category "UFO" and then we just assumed these are all different aspects of that one thing. Kinda like religion.
Now I actually think this is a concerted effort to start a new religion. With the US military as the high priests, the only people with access to these artifacts and these beings. Pentagon the religion's cathedral.
<The aliens want us to stop fighting, and just be good liberals to one another<woah, the deities have confirmed the ruling ideology! nobody saw that comingcaricature, but our world is fucking lame enough it could happen No.1515352
>>1515337>The actual implication is that the US government is so powerful, so all-knowing and all-seeing, that they can keep a secret like this for 70 years.Kept what a secret? Literally everybody has heard the meme that there's aliens in area 51. If we assume there are aliens, then at most they've managed the narrative.
No.1515374
>>1515342>according to US military pilots.They're lying. Not for a malicious reason, it's a brilliant idea. Spend your retirement leading people on for years or decades, always revealing a tiny bit more, get paraded around "meetings" and conferences, free hotels, food, drinks, everyone wanting to meet you, women and men wanting to fuck you. By the time anyone is onto you or your lies become obvious, you're either dead or close to.
But actually, and this is actually the brilliant part, you're surrounded by people who
want to believe you, who want to prove you right. Nobody around you will actually question you or dig too deep. In fact, they will defend you from those who do. lol
>The men's aim is to press the two governments to recognise the long-standing extra-terrestrial visits as fact.>They are to be presented on Monday 27 September at a meeting in Washington.>27 September 2010And? What happened? That was over 10 years ago. Have their stories been "accepted as fact"? Whatever that means. Lol it actually sounds like something a liar would say. "I shall only show proof to the proper authorities equipped to handle this proof! Then we await their impartial ruling."
Everyone claps and says how honourable and interested in the truth the liar is. Meanwhile the "verification process", if there even is such a thing, probably takes a long while. But in the minds of those I-want-to-believe believe that's proof enough and they're hooked. To people who are naive and easily fooled, mere acquiescence to a "verification" is proof enough of one's honesty.
I WANT TO BELIEVE Might as well put a "sucker" sticker on your back. The stuff about religion was for a joke. It's obvious all of these people are lying. They're just very good at it. You have to be ready for this. People lie, and some are
very good at it. Some even, believe their own lies. That is how human memory works. You do not have a little hard drive where information is stored. Every time you remember, you also remember remembering. The more you think about it, the more you colour the memory with your current understanding, emotions and more recent memories. Let's not start assuming people wouldn't lie about something big like that. I remind you of the "virgin" Mary. Also of Moses and Mohammed, two dudes that totally happened to talk to god when nobody was around. That god, always choosing to appear to one or few people, never to a whole city.
Just like those pesky aliens!
As an aside about your newspaper article links. A newspaper or media story is
not proof something is true. Most newspaper articles are records of someone saying something or a report on an event that has taken place or is about to.
Those articles are about pilots saying aliens deactivated ICBMs with nuclear warheads or whatever. I assume it is ICBMs with nukes, because we have had nuclear detonations and rocket launches, just not combined ones (I don't think). The reasonable explanation is that humans never decided to launch ICBMs with nukes (why would they outside of nuclear war). Now these guys say that's because aliens. Come on…
lol these are such obvious lies, but people
want to believe No.1515381
>>1515352>Kept what a secret? Literally everybody has heard the meme that there's aliens in area 51lmao
You don't actually think "there's aliens in area 51" do you?
What happens in the other 50 areas?>If we assume there are aliens, then at most they've managed the narrative.hahahah
hahahhahahaha
>IfSimple, don't assume there are aliens at area 51.
>why am I thinking this? >Because they want me to think it!scary shit dude. genuinely. start being more critical and less eager to believe.
if aliens are real, they aren't going to reward those who believed in aliens first. if anything, they'd reward the ones who believed last, cause you don't become a civilisation that can travel across galaxies if the people in it don't have critical thinking.the aliens who don't have critical thinking, are still doing drugs and rubbing crystals, hoping to go to different worlds. ;) No.1515472
>>1515381>Simple, don't assume there are aliens at area 51. ?
You fundamentally misunderstand the story you're trying to debunk. The point is that "how do they keep this secret for 70 years?" doesn't make sense in either scenario. If there's no aliens there's no secret to keep. If there's aliens they obviously didn't keep the secret. Your need to feel validated for being smarter than other people is leading you to have really bad reading comprehension.
No.1515473
>>1515374>Those articles are about pilots saying aliens deactivated ICBMs with nuclear warheads or whatever. I assume it is ICBMs with nukes,All ICBMs are armed with nuclear warheads, what would be the point of one armed with conventional munitions?
No.1515509
>>1515472>If there's no aliens there's no secret to keep. If there's aliens they obviously didn't keep the secret.Yes… and since "aliens at area 51" is not a secret, because everyone knows… what does that tell you?
>>1515473Then what did the aliens deactivate?
No.1515524
>>1515509>what does that tell you?It's either made up or impossible to keep secret, putting us back at square 1, which is why "how could they keep it secret?" is a non-argument. There are plenty of reasons to be skeptical. This is not one of them, because it has nothing to do with reality. Nobody is claiming that there's aliens and it's a secret, because the public is very aware of the story.
No.1515525
>>1515337I dont believe in eithet, but your logic is all wrong. An ancient globe spanning civilization temporaneous with the Younger Dryas would necessarily leave physical evidence, more than likely a massive amount of it. We have nothing even slightly convincing in the archaeological record, the genetic record, oral or written history.
ET contact hinges on technology so advanced and circumstances so mysterious that the lack of material evidence does not necessarily disprove it.
I do not believe in either, but the fact is that muh antediluvian civilization is ridiculous because its falsifiable with evidence we have available. ET contact is ridiculous because there's no evidence available, so it cant even be falsified.
No.1515536
>>1515473>All ICBMs are armed with nuclear warheads, what would be the point of one armed with conventional munitions?Look up Prompt Global Strike, comrade. Well they rebranded it but i can't recall the new name at the moment.
No.1515609
>>1515524>It's either made up or impossible to keep secret, Which one is more likely?
>Nobody is claiming that there's aliens and it's a secretThe extent to which "there are aliens" is a secret. Some say US govt. has alien craft, some say they have recovered "materials", some say they have recovered alien bodies. These would all be secrets, no?
>>1515525>in the archaeological record,The places they would have visited are ~250m under water. When is the last time someone did an archeological dig down there?
>the genetic recordYou mean like this?
>A mysterious group of humans crossed the Bering land bridge from Siberia into the Americas thousands of years ago, genetic analyses reveal. Modern-day signatures of this ‘ghost population’ survive in people who live deep in the Brazilian Amazon, but the two research teams who have made the discovery have different ideas about when and how these migrants reached the Americas1,2.
>The team calls this ghost population “Population Y”, after the word for ancestor, Ypykuéra, in the languages spoken by the Suruí and Karitiana. They contend that Population Y reached the Americas either before or around the same time as the First Americans, more than 15,000 years ago.
>Skoglund’s discovery — which is published online on 21 July in Nature2 — was that members of two Amazonian groups, the Suruí and the Karitiana, are more closely related to Papua New Guineans and Aboriginal Australians than other Native Americans are to these Australasian groups. The team confirmed the finding with several statistical methods used to untangle genetic ancestry, as well as additional genomes from Amazonians and Papuans. “We spent a lot of time being sceptical and incredulous about the finding and trying to make it go away, but it just got stronger,” says Reich.https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.18029That's just an example. I found a better paper I can't find now. This paper was funny because they found certain markers from Siberia (like in the article above) in S. American populations, but not in N. American populations. If they came by land from Siberia, they would have left genetic markers (as you keep observing astutely) in N. America, but they didn't. The researchers came up with an explanation that these people sprinted across N. America in a couple dozen generations.
A population crossing by ship makes more sense, except ocean-going ships hadn't been invented yet.
>oral or written history.Writing wasn't invented. And oral history you reject as myth lol. Oral history passed down the flood myth, and as part of that myth there are other aspects of that story all civilisations share: that there came people on a.boat after the flood and taught them things.
Don't ask for proof you have already rejected, makes you seem dishonest.
>ET contact hinges on technology so advanced and circumstances so mysterious that the lack of material evidence does not necessarily disprove it. You can literally make the same argument about god.
>fact is that muh antediluvian civilization is ridiculous because its falsifiable with evidence we have available. Such as? Funny, you talk about evidence and yet I'm the only one who posts links and excerpts from journals, articles, books. I'm the only one coming with any evidence. All you do is.dismiss it out of hand (without looking at it) and allude that you have.better evidence that proves everything you're saying. When I ask for it, you deflect. Like you will do now.
>ET contact is ridiculous because there's no evidence available, so it cant even be falsified.Your argument is that we have no evidence of the civ. I suspect you saw the problem yourself and changed the formulation before posting. Very sneaky. If you change your argument just to "win" in this moment, right now, in posts that will be removed anyway, you're only doing yourself a disservice. You're getting used to saying different things in the moment to get what you want. That's no way to live.
No.1515615
>>1515536Then the aliens didn't deactivate anything and that whole story is a lie. That was the point I was getting to. Aliens deactivated warheads, yet we still have functioning nuclear bombs? Did they give up after they saw how many we have? lol
No.1515766
>>1515337Didnt read, u smell like shit and fuck cuntham bitchcock
No.1515777
>>1515609> These would all be secrets, no?No. It's not a secret if the whole world has heard about it, whether as a rumor or a confirmed fact. That's not what a secret is. A secret would be nobody or very few had heard about it.
No.1515806
>>1515609>They contend that Population Y reached the Americas either before or around the same time as the First Americans, more than 15,000 years ago.I am entirely familiar with this, its very fascinating, and archeological sites like Monte Verde in Chile and genetic evidence like small pre-Columbian native american signatures in Polynesian populations are incredible new discoveries that do recast significant stretches of human history. There are at this point dozens of finding that push back the peopling of the Americas by almost 10k years. These are findings that have been accomplished through the cutting edge of institutional archaeology and population genetics, not by rogue debunkers with Netflix series. These are findings that are entirely consistent with what we know and what we're learning of the capabilities of early humans, when we give them proper credit for having the same inventiveness and ambition that modern humans. None of it indicates a globe spanning antediluvian civilization. If such a civilization were to exist, the genetic evidence would be far more widespread, would follow different distribution patterns (more pronounced and more focused around flashpoints of contact rather than spread out in ways consistent with slower migration). The archaeological evidence would indicate the introduction of bigger jumps in technology away from tools used for hunter-gatherer lifestyles, and we wouldnt see the kind of intermediary stages of tool development we see everywhere. What Hancock presents as archaeological evidence is incredibly weak, it's either claims that well-documented sites are far too advanced by have been built by the people theyre traditionally associated with, or claims that what are traditionally considered natural phenomena are too reminiscent of human constructed symmetries to be natural. The former far undersells the capabilities of the human societies in question, the latter far understates the variety of natural phenomena and our own tendencies to interpret intentional patterns out of incidental arrangements.
As for submerged sites along the coastlines, I absolutely believe that with more extensive underwater archaeology we would find all kinds of incredible sites, including early cities and other wild unexpected developments. The plausibility of there being highly significant sites submerged along coastlines doesnt change that 1. we do not have evidence of those at the moment and can only work with what we have 2. global civilization is still incredibly unlikely considering any single or group of globe spanning civilizations would have introduced technology, crops, and genetic imprints that would influence local peoples far beyond the reaches of now-submerged ancient coasts.
>You can literally make the same argument about god.Yes lmao exactly, I dont believe in god but I have no means to disprove the existence of god.
I am not arguing for aliens, I do not believe in aliens, and the existence of ET contact as described in this thread is far less hypothetical plausible than a globe spanning antediluvian civ. However, we can actually judge the evidence presented for the latter, and the evidence presented is entirely insufficient to support the claim being made.
No.1515990
>>1515806>the existence of ET contact as described in this thread is far less hypothetical plausible than a globe spanning antediluvian civ. All I wanted to hear, really. So why is the former allowed while the latter is "schizo"?
>However, we can actually judge the evidence presented for the latter, and the evidence presented is entirely insufficient to support the claim being made.I am not saying I believe the theory or that there definitely was a civ like that. But the historic record is incomplete. You yourself say:
>There are at this point dozens of finding that push back the peopling of the Americas Yes, our previous assumptions were not accurate. In the article I linked they mention debate about the timing of it. You cannot make the definite conclusions you are making.
>These are findings that are entirely consistent with what we knowBold claim backed up by nothing. You say "know" as if that's how this works. As if there's definite proof of this and there's no debate. That is not how these fields work. There's a lot of "filling in the gaps" and there's a lot of "well if it fits together, must be true". But simplicity or even explanation is not conformation. One cannot "confirm", only corroborate a theory.
Falsification you mention has been rejected on this board because it has been used against marxism, and rightfully so. How falsifying is used in science is that you can't falsify a whole theory, but a theory can put forward testable hypotheses, that can then be tested.
Testability, repeatability, explanation, prediction and all of these things you seem to think are marks of "truth" are nothing more than aspects of a theory. The more you have of them, the stronger and harder to defeat your theory is.
Besides, "science" isn't this honourable monolith of people committed to expending human knowledge and truth where only that which has passed the gauntlet of the scientific method. For example, a lot of the published experiments aren't repeatable.
>Science is facing a "reproducibility crisis" where more than two-thirds of researchers have tried and failed to reproduce another scientist's experiments, research suggests. https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-39054778A lot of scientists are under pressure to publish, that is how they get tenure, promotions, prestige, and so on. You seem to discount bias and subjectivity, because it suits your purpose.
>Such as? Funny, you talk about evidence and yet I'm the only one who posts links and excerpts from journals, articles, books. I'm the only one coming with any evidence. All you do is.dismiss it out of hand (without looking at it) and allude that you have.better evidence that proves everything you're saying. When I ask for it, you deflect. Like you will do now.You make all these claims without any evidence because
you know you support the mainstream narrative, the "common sense" view. You don't feel like you need to provide proof. That is how liberals feel talking to communists. Do you really not see it?
No.1516016
>>1515990did not read you smell fucking terrible and no one ever will or should engage seriously with you
No.1516042
>>1515766>u smell like shit >>1516016>you smell fucking terribleno idea what the fuck is happening here. you ok man?
No.1516052
>>1516016>>1515766Agreed. Aliens won't visit us even if they exist because this uygha smells so bad.
No.1516234
>>1516042did not read this post was typed by smelly fingers
No.1516244
>>1515990>All I wanted to hear, really. So why is the former allowed while the latter is "schizo"?Oh I actually agree your threads should be allowed, I find them funny and like talking about archaeology. I think I even said in a meta thread a while back that they shouldnt anchor your threads. And either way, not even in defense of the mods, the reasoning is almost definitely just that right now the alleged ayy lmao leaks is big news right now. And it's not that the topic is schizo, it's that you come off as fairly schizo. Your argumentation is generally unsound even by the standards of this board, which is a very high bar.
Maybe try to start an archaeology general or something.
No.1516302
>>1516244>Oh I actually agree your threads should be allowed, I find them funny and like talking about archaeology.Hot take: schizo nonsense can actually be good because the responses can educate people and the wacky ideas themselves can help break out of conventional thinking a bit.
No.1516375
>>1516302Yeah thats why I think they should be allowed, but it being helpful does rely on an overall board culture that is willing to engage in good faith knowing that the OP isnt the only person reading. Unfortunately we havent had that here for a while, and a lot of the responses seem to take more influence from twitter, as much as we'd hate to admit it
No.1516439
>>1516436it's just disinfo to distract people
we have all kinds, superhero media, new age religion, old age religion, anti-vax, anti-groomer, qanon, there's an anti-materialist ideology for all people to distract them from whats actually happening in front of all of our eyes - the systematic looting of the poor by the rich
No.1516459
Public meeting to be scheduled Gillibrand scheduling hearings with UAP whistleblower David Grusch Congressional investigations into UAPs continue ratcheting upMATT LASLO
JUN 27, 2023
∙ PAID
9
2
Sen. Kirsten Gillibrand (D-NY) is working on scheduling hearings with UAP whistleblower David Grusch, along with the current or former government officials who seem to corroborate some of his claims.
Gillibrand says they’ll be open to the public, if Grusch agrees to allow cameras in.
Last week, the senator announced she secured “full funding for the All-domain Anomaly Resolution Office (AARO) in the Senate Armed Services Committee’s markup of the FY24 National Defense Authorization Act.”
Gillibrand is also pushing a measure in this year’s must-pass National Defense Authorization Act in response to Grusch’s claim the federal government is hiding Special Access Programs (SAPs) from Congress. Her proposal would bar funding for any government program that isn’t directly funded by Congress."
https://www.askapol.com/p/exclusive-gillibrand-scheduling-hearings No.1516649
>>1516436>you have 6 months to release it>6 months passes, it's not released>we're taking you to court!>judge says you have 3 months to release it>3 months later, it's not released>rinse, repeatYou really think they
have to release it? Of course they don't. It's classified, national security, national secrets, blah blah blah, they have so many ways to keep it from the public. How many of these deadlines have we had? And when they do release it, it's a whole load of nothing.
>Congressional investigations into UAPs continue ratcheting up. uh oh, they're ratcheting up. Can't wait until they have been fully ratcheted! oh boy, that's gonna be something.
FULL RATCHETISATION OF CONGRESSIONAL INVESTIGATIONS
AYYYBROS, LESGOOOOOO
No.1548558
Bump. Any1 watch the congressional hearing
No.1548574
subliminal jihad last 2hr episode covers the sus history of ufo people now in the media, let me post the mp3 mods. way more interesting is the news of successful room temperature super conductors released in the last 24 hours that seems to have bigbrains excited on HN
No.1548583
>>1548573>extradimensional phenomenonGrusch has specifically used the word NHI instead of extraterrestrials or aliens to hint at some sort of extradimensional nature. Who knows maybe the ayys are coming from some parallel dimension or fucking with us
No.1548609
from plebbit:
>Just my notes, anyone please feel free to append/ correct:
1.All witnesses were questioned under oath; all are senior intelligence or military members
1.They have much more specifics that can only be shared behind closed doors with congress members (due to security clearances)
2.We have multiple-sensor kinematics, videography, and photography of many UAPs
3.Witness demurred when asked if there have been murders as part of cover-up
4.Witnesses described "No evidence of UAP" statement as inaccurate
5.Unable to defend against them whatsoever
6.They are common, and there is now standard pre-flight briefings when pilots are encountering UAPs (military)
7.Their capabilities exceed anything possible now or in the next ten years
8.There are active crash retrieval and reverse-engineering programs, and witnesses have given exact names, location, and photographic and sensor-based evidence to congress in closed sessions
1.Biological material has been retrieved
2.Humans have been injured in the process of engineering/ retrieval
3.The programs are paid for via misappropriated funds; private companies will overcharge the USG, with the excess going to these programs
9.Both humans and UAPs have harmed human witnesses
1.Witness could not describe in open setting besides describing what he and his wife personally saw as "exceptionally disturbing"
10.Witness demurred when asked if there has been formal contact between USG and UAPs
11.There are active retaliation efforts by senior leaders of intelligence and military community, including harsh reprisals; currently an open whistleblower reprisal investigation for one of witnesses
12.It's possible that UAPs are conducting reconnaissance, probing capabilities, and have an interest in our nuclear capabilities specifically
13.Private companies have retaliated against commercial pilots reporting by issuing C&Ds
14.Specifically do not call it extra-terrestrials, they're non-human intelligence to avoid speculating origin
15.When asked if other foreign powers have safety measures to mitigate risk of escalatory situation in the event of UAP malevolence, witnesses confirmed there is existing agreements recently declassified that had been appended to previous nuclear treaties
16. Capable of jamming radar that no other adversaries can
No.1548625
>>1496214UFOs are a ploy designed to frighten America's potential enemies by leveraging formerly reputable institutions like NASA into implying that the US has some crazy advanced tech in some underground vault somewhere.
"UFO sightings" first picked up during the early cold war to scare the Soviets and now they're picking up again now that the Chinese are squaring up.
No.1548633
>>1548583>Grusch has specifically used the word NHI instead of extraterrestrials or aliens to hint at some sort of extradimensional nature.I mean…
That can really refer to anything which is probably more the point. It could be something from the sea or from caves or just some impostor living amogus.
No.1548634
>>1548609This thing seems like some airmen trying to get five minutes of fame
The only convincing thing is that ufos seem to share common properties
No.1548639
>>1548625what if china starts saying that they got ufo shit too as a counter attack
No.1548652
>>1548639different person but this is when I would be convinced UFOs aren't a nothingburger. If both the US and China were to come out and say the same shit about UFOs when atm the USA cant even get a hold of weather balloons then that would be some crazy shit
No.1548671
>>1496218There is a phrase in India which is in response to: Why there are so many UFOs in America?
The answer is: There are more idiots per square mile than anywhere else in the world
No.1548689
>>1515525>An ancient globe spanning civilization temporaneous with the Younger Dryas would necessarily leave physical evidence,You mean like this? I actually stumbled upon this recently.
>In a one-page article appearing in Naturwissenschaften, German scientist Svetla Balabanova (1992) and two of her colleagues reported findings of cocaine, hashish and nicotine in Egyptian mummies. The findings were immediately identified as improbable on the grounds that two of the substances were known to be derived only from American plants - cocaine from Erythroxylon coca, and nicotine from Nicotiana tabacum. The suggestion that such compounds could have found their way to Egypt before Columbus' discovery of America seemed patently impossible. http://www.faculty.ucr.edu/~legneref/ethnic/mummy.htmPut your faith in liberal institutions and watch yourself fall with them.
Aliens aren't real, the congressional hearings are a circus. I wonder what they're trying to distract from. People acting as if he can't lie "under oath". Who is going to prove him wrong?
No.1548691
>>1548639I would believe China over the US.
No.1548694
>>1548691You would believe China precisely because the Chinese government usually doesn't pull this kind of retardation
No.1549008
Unironically fucking hang yourself if you're STILL falling for US aliems bullshit
No.1549232
>>1548872They're hiding something, and it's not aliens. Why else have this circus now, when people have been saying the same thing for decades now. Also pilots, military personnel and people with first or second-hand knowledge.
Why now?
Also, it's not like Congress can compel anyone to do anything. They can send all the requests and demands they want,
IF there are alien craft (unlikely), they're not gonna release images/data to the public. They don't have to. So I don't understand what the point of this spectacle is.
No.1549243
>>1548583>>1548573I love the modern shift from "aliens" to "extradimensional beings" because people realized that literal multiverse magic is more believable than faster-than-light travel. At least space scientiste and engineers dont have to deal with this shit anymore.
No.1549422
>>1549418I guess if you put enough spin, a dog shot into space is a non-human "pilot" of sorts.
No.1549428
>>1549418Atrocious fed bait.
>>1549422For real.
Think about what it means that its "non-human". Is it mammal? Does it have DNA? Is it carbon-based? Etc. Instead we just have " non-human". Knowing liberals, the "non-human" was provably a Chinese muslim.
No.1555859
>>1548574just listened to part 2 of this. so 4 hours listening to 2 extremely well read and persuasive communist schizos speak about the background of the people being interviewed by the NYT about UFOs. it is wild.
No.1556034
>>1548689You mean the mummy that was openly displayed with no barrier for years in museums at a time when crowds of guests were smoking in front of it? Why do you think its more likely that such circumstantial trace evidence is indicative of some kind of early global trade networks/contact, when we lack any other examples of such physical evidence, or any of the associated tools, vessels, or written references that would show up in conjunction with such substances?
No.1556036
So, if aliens or non-human intelligence is real why hasnt any other country just showed some ayy bodies? We wont do it I guess since we're full of ultra religious pyschos and it'd probably cause a national riot but I dont know how or why Russia or China or some other country wont just make with some aay body shots
No.1556071
>>1556036What would they stand to gain by doing that, and why would it be assumed that everybody has ayy bodies just because the US government says they have some? If any government has alien biology or technology in their possession, it would have very high scientific value with major implications for geopolitics. The United States loves meddling in other countries' affairs. Anybody revealing they possess anything of that nature would be painting a target for espionage.
No.1556075
Are space commies reacting to the coming WW3? Why are ayylmaos obsessed with nukes? Are dolphins their only allies or have they contacted DPRK and Cuba?
No.1556346
>>1556071>What would they stand to gain by doing thatLol, idk good will or something. I feel like this is kind of a right to know issue honestly. I suppose you have some good points but it'd be unlikely ayys just visit USA. Although some of the highest UFO reports are from New Jersey. Dont talk shit, im from there
No.1556591
>>1556017>a large psyop meant to distract people from institutional failures and imperial declinefor a short period, to allow the establishment to consolidate control over the remnants of empire. When the people realize what has happened it will be too late and there will be no more need for psyop distractions like aliens or room temperature conductors. Until then, there is a need for a constant stream of happenings.
No.1556620
>>1556346>but it'd be unlikely ayys just visit USAno shit lol
The only people I've seen imply that are the ones posting the heat map of UFO sightings, which is probably indicates burger boredom as much as it indicates anything else. Although I would point out that the US has a lot of experimental aircraft that are by the actual meaning of the word UFOs to most people who might see them. Whether or not ayys are real they're a convenient cover for secret military boondoggle aircraft.
No.1556650
>>1492461>You're not only ruining the good reputation of conspiracy theoristsCan't ruin something that doesn't exist
No.1556748
>>1556591>It’s a distraction to pacify the massesI don’t see it as having a pacifying effect. It increases suspicion in the government which is an important component of revolutionary radicalization. The UFO conspiracies have only caused more and more distrust of government authorities. There is little to gain for the ruling classes in that, and even less in being a witness. There have been plenty of believable witnesses who never took advantage of the UFO convention perks, never made any income from their claims, and only suffered stigmatization. I would argue the cracks of the imperial core are starting to show, and that’s why the public is being introduced to previously secret information regarding UFOs. To add, few serious adjacent academic have argued that all UFO accounts are all manufactured. Instead, any scientist worth his salt would say there is no physical evidence to back up eyewitness claims. There is a lot of historical evidence of sightings (now identified as UFO sightings) which are on firmer ground than many other widely accepted anthropological theories.
The truth is that no one here can say for sure that we are alone in our corner of the universe, and no one who hasn’t actually witnessed an extraterrestrial encounter can say for sure that we are not.
No.1556784
>>1556748>There is a lot of historical evidence of sightings (now identified as UFO sightings) which are on firmer ground than many other widely accepted anthropological theories.This part tends to get ignored for some reason, but the sudden "onset" of UFO sightings is better described as people explaining much older phenomena with a new narrative and an uptick in sightings. People in the past would have described the sightings along the lines of angels or demons often times, and in the future people may ascribe the sightings to something other than extraterrestrials. When people see things beyond their understanding they try to explain them in terms of things they do understand.
No.1556803
>>1556748Another point is that manufacturing fake UFO evidence, generating accurate aerial UFO videos taken from fighter jets, and prepping fake witnesses would require perhaps a larger conspiracy with more people “in on it” than what would be required in a coverup if there actually were UFOs that a few military apparatus have poorly and unsuccessfully attempted to keep secret.
No.1556975
>>1556803To this point, I am once again reminding everyone that whether or not there's aliens, the whole thing is absolutely not a secret. The public has been hearing about alien craft in possession of the government for decades, since Roswell. At most they managed to keep it an unsubstantiated rumor by muddying the waters. Fabricating UFO sightings, as a conspiracy theory,
would be a secret still if it is what's happening.
No.1557287
>>1556748>It’s a distraction to pacify the massesNobody mentioned pacification. It's a last gasp distraction because their backs are against the wall geopolitically and they believe that they can kill any real unrest at home.
No.1557312
>>1557287How does that work though? Aliens have been a meme for like 60 years. Most people alive today grew up with it already being a punchline. It seems like any utility they'd get out of this would be extremely marginal.
No.1558069
>ayy shit
SAGE & HIDE
No.1558171
>>1555859tldr Grusch and the woman interviewed by the Isaac Dovere type media guy have extremely sus backgrounds that include occult intel shit. This was not mentioned in the interview with the woman that attracted so much heat, ofc.
No.1562361
Apparently Chuck Schumer's recently passed Defence Bill mentions 'non-human intelligence' 24 times.
No.1563561
>>1548639Sounds like the premise of a South Park episode.
No.1565697
>>1565670It's a screenshot of a Twitter DM convo posted publicly by one of the journalists who reported on the mental health issues of the UFO whistleblower.
No.1566135
>>1565670Somebody wants the world to know this guy had a history of suicidal ideation before he kills himself with two shots to the back of the head.
No.1566146
>>1565697Well he is in the military wouldn't it be more strange if he did not have mental health issues, like, even statistically?
No.1569286
Reminder that Grusch's medical information is protected under HIPAA and it's not many people who would be able to access it normally (legally). The thing about this that's peculiar is why would somebody leak his files to cast doubt on his story if his "whistleblowing" is all a psyop? Are they playing 4D chess kayfabe trying to make it look like he really is going against the deep state? Wouldn't they be trying to make him look more credible to the general public if convincing people was the goal?
No.1594701
so its a nothingburger and congress is all trying to figure out how to damage control playing into a big media story that turned out to be a scam, right?
No.1595081
>>1494239Special relativity is also an approximation, much like classical gravity is an approximation for a physical phenomenon that we do not have the quantum description for yet.
Neither relativity nor gravity are the final version of either of these theories, and will not be until we discover how they behave on the quantum scale. And since that will necessarily also allow us to discover true limits of the spatial geometry/forces involved, that is the only point at which we will be able to decisively say whether FTL is impossible or not.
All definitive statements about FTL are currently unprovable, and thus conjecture.
No.1595225
>>1595081>>1494239Special Relativity is the earlier version of the theory which doesn't account for gravity or acceleration. General Relativity is the version Einstein developed that includes those and actually applies to the universe (which does have acceleration and gravity).
We also already have concrete evidence of the kind of "causality" violation that Einstein called "spooky action at a distance" (entanglement) that has been produced in a lab. There is nothing to determine that our intuitive understanding of "causality" or any other supposed physical property is scientifically accurate. Quantum mechanics, relativity, even heliocentrism have all violated our assumptions based on what we intuitively think is true. The way to determine whether or not something like FTL is possible is to test it, but that's beyond the scope of our technology for now.
Also, of course, there's the possibility of folding spacetime and similar principles that could allow for apparent FTL travel without actually violating anything.
No.1596416
ayy lmao
Mexico has entered the fray.
They are saying they have a body (pictured).
Official recording from Mexico's congress (3h17m):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AiXnkTgBem4 No.1597191
NASA is doing a press conference about their UAP investigation right now
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwU6V5GFaQA No.1597218
Concept of flying saucers is stupid beyond belief and dates back to pre-space age times of human monke.
The very assumption that grabby aliens come down to gather information about human anuses is terminally braindead, so as its supporters, when in grim reality grey guys will be perfectly ok with their autonomous elint, comint and any fucking other -int possible from orbit or moon or heliostational with their Kardashev type 1+ tech.
No.1597224
In short - those revelations is just mere psyop to install a new current thing into westoid npc hivemind to worry.
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