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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1617828461979.jpg (694.05 KB, 1080x1084, fc92a271e1939631aaca6f0cf8….jpg)

 No.157791[Last 50 Posts]

What is the proper gommie stance on immigration?

On one hand you have the neoliberal stance of open borders, on the other the /pol/tard stance of ethnostate with reverse immigration.

What is the socialist/communist stance on immigration? something in between? or something else entirely.
>>

 No.157795

Open borders for the USA
>>

 No.157799

>>157791
I actually never got it, in 2016 everyone on the left clapped for Bernie when he said to keep the borders tightly secured but now open borders are fine?
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 No.157801

File: 1617828637067.png (330.68 KB, 1000x750, 413cd7de9a9d0f0627791f38e9….png)

>>157799
excuse me sweetie, open borders are socialist and the FBI is based. hail biden
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 No.157810

>>157801
Agent Kochinski must be getting whiplash from Biden finishing building the wall

The stupid American, there's footage out there of Biden addressing some donors dinner that storeshittistahn needs a wall to block the tide of immigration from the south from way back
>>

 No.157813

>>157791
Open borders is a cancer that drains developing countries and makes it harder to get people focused on class. There is no need for mass migration once we stop exploiting countries beyond their means and they will follow suit but constructing their own means of production. Making themselves sufficient if they want to even exist in a socialist world.
>>

 No.157819

>>157799
Yeah, I mean, it's amazing not everything is a monthly
>>

 No.157822

>What is the socialist/communist stance on immigration?
basically the same as communist stance on strawberry vs chocolate ice-cream
>>

 No.157827

>>157813
same fag
"hey will follow suit by constructing their own means of production."

I mean't to say they will be forced to construct their means of production. Then from there they can actually start instilling stable economies. that can later be transferred for a plan economy.
>>

 No.157829

Its the same as the communist stance on sex/pregnancy

No children/immigration before the revolution as this would decrease wages

As many children/immigrants as possible after the revolution as this would increase productive forces
>>

 No.157835

>>157822
I would love to know that stance
>>

 No.157848

>>157829
This, but no good communist country should pull a Romania and ban birth control. That shit was retarded the best natalist policy is to just make childcare far easier without forcing people to have birth just because they got horny once.

The revolution should have the state provide preschool to take the childcare burden off of working families. Also helps with educating the child later in life, so it's a win-win.
>>

 No.157857

There is no difference in people moving between cities and regions and those moving between countries and continents, especially if they speak the same language anyway
Also reminder that over half the countries on earth only exist because imperialist firstoids refused to give workers in their colonies the same rights as those in their metropoles leaving independence as the only remaining option

>b-but in my perfect imaginary world

Stfu the choice is not between a perfect post-capitalist socialist world and what we have today, but between solidarity with workers, and the growing tides of fascism and chauvinism
>>

 No.157863

Uhm it's workers of the world unite sweetie
>>

 No.157866

>>157791
Open borders
/thread
>>

 No.157870

>>157857
> Stfu the choice is not between a perfect post-capitalist socialist world and what we have today, but between solidarity with workers, and the growing tides of fascism and chauvinism
This
Many westoids use their hypothetical future utopia as an excuse to support national chauvinism in the here and now
>>

 No.157874

>>157866
FOR THE USA
>>

 No.157878

>>157874
For USA capital
Fixed
>>

 No.157882

>>157874
Yes, and for every other country
>>

 No.157883

>>157878
Storeshitters secretly want open borders so they can escape their shithole country
No you may not shit in our stores you disgusting animals, you want open borders open your borders
>>

 No.157884

File: 1617832089408.jpg (27.9 KB, 390x500, 8d90bb9afcba90b4a99babf86f….jpg)

>>157883
brb going to europe to shart in their mart.
>>

 No.157886

>>157883
Is it difficult being this autistic
>>

 No.157889

Oh, I should also remind leftypol that open borders would work wonders for the global economy. It would double the world's GDP and would be especially beneficial to workers in the Global South.
https://www.wbur.org/hereandnow/2018/08/06/open-borders-economy-workers
>>

 No.157892

>>157886
Filthy storeshitter making poor Mexicans clean your filth open your borders so they can freely discover it's not worth it and go back

Making wall claiming it to keep Mexicans out when it actually to prevent them from escaping after you lure them in with false promises

Open your borders
>>

 No.157894

>>157892
I've been on the open borders side since this thread began you fucking sperg
>>

 No.157895

>>157883
Yes, we do.
>>

 No.157896

File: 1617832658542.jpg (8.2 KB, 208x242, c33a8ac1c3a873032f8faa8551….jpg)

>>157889
>open all borders
>>

 No.157902

>>157896
You do realize that most /pol/tards want to close borders, right?
>>

 No.157905

>>

 No.157908

Reminder that documented workers are allowed to unionize and fight for higher wages rather than taking what scraps are given to them. Also something about fostering an alliance between international workers against the tide of xenophobia.
>>

 No.157910

File: 1617833690652.jpg (48.55 KB, 656x465, 89572398592.jpg)

>>157902
There used to be a time before soy/poljack posting when posting a picture next to a post meant to convey the poster's own's reaction instead of meaning THIS IS YOU! YOU STINK!
I assume Anon jokingly pretended to be a pol/yp/ trigerred by thoses three words.
>>

 No.157912

>>157910
Yeah, people including me still post pepes and other reaction images to indicate how we feel, it's just that soyjaks are mainly used to poke fun at someone else.
>>

 No.157922

>>157910
Oh ok, I guess I misinterpreted the post then.
>>

 No.157925

File: 1617834380740.jpg (56.8 KB, 544x600, 84250795a818e28ca6360daa15….jpg)

>>

 No.157930

File: 1617834773962-0.png (692.53 KB, 513x739, Figsaturnpepe.png)

File: 1617834773962-1.png (300.03 KB, 511x533, FigHilldawgpepe.png)

File: 1617834773962-2.jpg (83.17 KB, 536x547, 235634876.jpg)

File: 1617834773962-3.jpg (46.82 KB, 589x335, bantzometer.jpg)

File: 1617834773962-4.jpg (49.98 KB, 421x613, This is science.jpg)

>>157925
Ah, that famous time when academics attempted to study /pol/. That was a nice thread.
>>

 No.157932

>>157930
> India has the highest power level
Lol
>>

 No.157939

>>157930
did they miss that the comfy pepe is in particular in front of a nuclear blast
>>

 No.157941

Maintained borders. Easier and cheaper visas for students who want to come here to study. DACA recipients should be citizens. No open borders until the rest of the world is socialist.
>>

 No.157947

>>157941
>implying USA is socialist and rest of world needs to catch up
Stop shitting in stores
>>

 No.157950

>>157791
>india for the indians
>china for the chinese
>mexico for the mexicans
>white countries for everybody
yeah seems fair /s
I don't support mass immigration or the white genocide it facilitates, end of story. if you're such an internationalist then move to the middle east and try to build socialism there, don't import a bunch of savages into my country though thanks. we have enough problems as it is
>>

 No.157960

File: 1617836159589.jpg (73.28 KB, 500x639, 81f6d552a210bd8d5b323eb6a1….jpg)

It literally doesn't matter. Immigration is a phenomenom rooted in class societies. It'll disappear under communism.
>>

 No.157966

>>157950
How does this affect "white" people's material conditions in any way, race is a spook.
>>

 No.157967

File: 1617836337871.jpg (966.22 KB, 1800x1142, 04korea-1-mobileMasterAt3x.jpg)

>>157791
>What is the proper gommie stance on immigration?
>>

 No.157969

>>157966
I don't want the culture of my country to change for the worse. biological race may be a spook but cultural relativism is still cancer
>>

 No.157971

>>157791
Look up "Cockshott immigration", there are three vids with interesting Marxism based policies on immigration
>>

 No.157972

>>157969
Well, as a white burger, more people from other countries will probably make my country better tbh.
>>

 No.157973

File: 1617836623821.jpg (185.27 KB, 768x768, 353fcea4400db02fff2087b47e….jpg)

>>

 No.157974

>>157972
As a yellow burger I want to stop all immigration to the US. You fuckers tricked my parents and now I have to live in this hellscape of a country. Burgerland should be a quarantined zone.
>>

 No.157975

>>157972
america may be shit but I still don't want a bunch of muslims or any more jews moving over here. mexicans are largely okay because they're catholic. it really depends on who we're talking about tbh. I don't have anything against indians and chinese either, mostly mideasterners and africans. secular persians are however acceptable
>>157973
I have no love for what's become of western "civilisation" but if we're to turn things around the last thing we need is to muttify our countries beyond solidarity and repair
>>

 No.157976

>>157960
>Immigration is a phenomenom rooted in class societies. It'll disappear under communism.
So nobody will ever want to move under communism?
>>

 No.157979

>>157967
>Implying that fence has anything to do with immigration
>>

 No.157982

>>157976
I'm sure there'll be the occasional freak but even now with all the pressure for migration the vast supermajority of people do not move more than 20km from their mother's home
>>

 No.157983

>>157791

In capitalist core countries I'm against high-skill immigration because it causes a brain drain from the 3rd world, strengthening the core at the expense of the 3rd world and creating a fake woke or plain reactionary gusano class. As this anon said >>157813

I'm not opposed to lower skill immigration though
>>

 No.157984

>>157975
>As a yellow burger I want to stop all immigration to the US. You fuckers tricked my parents and now I have to live in this hellscape of a country. Burgerland should be a quarantined zone.
Not to get all "muh freedumbs" on you, but each person should be allowed to make their own choice. If someone has to work in a sweatshop in India for $2 a day, moving to Burgerstan will be better for them.
>>157975
>You don't interact with people irl, why do you care what types of people live near you?
>>

 No.157985

>>157984
Didn't mean to greentext the second one.
>>

 No.157986

>>157984
If they're making $2 a day they can't afford to travel storeshitting fucking retard
>>

 No.157988

>>157986
Yeah, well poor Mexicans and Central Americans can still travel across the border to make more money.
>>

 No.157989

>>157982
I doubt it would just be "the occasional freak". I think a lot of people would just get bored with the place they live and move to a far-off land to spice things up a bit or something. They just wouldn't be doing it to escape war or poverty or something. Bear in mind that modern technology and infrastructure combined with open borders would make long-distance migration fairly easy.
>>

 No.157998

>>157969
>Complaining about MUH CULTURAL DEGENERACY with a troon flag
>>

 No.158004

>>157969
>biological race is a spoog
>muh culture isn't
tell me more about your big-brain reading of stirner, anon.
>>

 No.158024

There is no stance. Immigration always existed. Go pro drones didn't.
Tv talks about immigrants because otherwise people have nothing else to talk about.
>>

 No.158027

>>157791
Open borders because climate change, anything else is fascism
>>

 No.158031

File: 1617840522730.png (231.56 KB, 972x571, 3409583490850934850934905.png)

I'm not on the same side as United $nakkke$ president Joseph Biden on this, not afraid to admit it.
>>

 No.158049

No open borders until world revolution, then exploitation will end and therefore immigration stops and we can abolish borders with no problems
>>

 No.158055

>>157984
>yellow burger
what? I'm "white"
and the only reason I don't interact with many people irl is because I live in a liberal shithole of a city that felt the need to virtue signal for the surrounding red state by locking down and wearing muzzles forever. I'm not christian but I'm about to start church shopping just to get out of the house
>>157998
cope, fags are based
>>158004
"white" culture is absolutely a spook I will agree with you there
>>158031
kek it's funny how dementia joe has kept doing basically everything the libs hated about trump and yet there's almost complete radio silence from the media about it
>>

 No.158063

File: 1617841714072.png (81.72 KB, 255x246, 1510888792664.png)

>>157950
>>157969
>>158055
>Muh mayocide
>Muh orcs savages
>>

 No.158068

>>158049
If there was a world revolution, then I don't think people would be respecting borders.
>>

 No.158072

>>158068
If anything borders would be enforced even more as you're tied to the community you're born in, if you leave that creates brain drain/labor shortage, part of eliminating the distinction between town and countryside is to make sure people have incentives to stay where they are, and travel isn't a luxury we can afford with climate change anyway.
>>

 No.158075

>>158055
>>yellow burger
>what? I'm "white"
and the only reason I don't interact with many people irl is because I live in a liberal shithole of a city that felt the need to virtue signal for the surrounding red state by locking down and wearing muzzles forever. I'm not christian but I'm about to start church shopping just to get out of the house
Sorry, I was also trying to reply to >>157974, not just you.
>>

 No.158080

>>158049
>>158072
A lot of words for "thirders should die in their bantustans"
>>

 No.158082

File: 1617842637708.png (529.66 KB, 640x438, Mao_Poster.png)

>>158072
>make sure people have incentives to stay where they are
I don't think revolutions are that orderly. "Well, we'll just create incentives…"

This sounds like liberal technocratic jargon. I was more thinking of revolutionary wars sweeping the world, migrations of hundreds of millions of people who destroy the old world to build a new one, that kinda stuff.
>>

 No.158083

File: 1617842809896.png (527.82 KB, 892x779, 059834058034985043.png)

>>

 No.158097

>>158049
>No open borders until world revolution
So never?
>>

 No.158133

>What, liberal reformism? Don't you know that you can't ever trust the bourgeoisie government to ever properly implement reform which operates against its own interests?
<Why yes, I do support closed borders, and to pursue such a thing is entirely practical in the realm of bourgeoisie politics! We can totally trust the bourgeoisie government in this context, why do you ask?
This is basically what communists who give weight to the whole "border" debate sound like, and this comes from someone who used to be strictly in support of closed borders. Hoping for "closed borders" as a solution is naive at best, dangerous collaboration at worst. We deal with the cards we have, and the cards we have is that there are immigrants here. It may not be the conditions some may "want", but its the conditions we currently have and will have.
>>

 No.158136

>>157967
That's the ROK side.
>>

 No.158141

>>157791
In a world socialist society there would be no major need for immigration because the distribution of resources would be based on social need rather than private profit. So countries like Honduras or whatever that are sociopolitically unstable would get the attention that it needs before there is a need for a mass exodus. Famines and geopolitical shakeups would be patched up at the source, just as an open wound is stitched rather than allowed to bleed and leak out. There would be no immigration crises under world socialism. People could just live where they want and where they are needed.
>>

 No.158161

And don't even get me started on the fact that communism is a stateless society. Immigration is a concept based on nationalist distinctions, but if there is only one global stateless society, you don't have immigration, you have people moving where they want and where they are needed. Immigration crises are only caused by the fact that capitalist first world orders want to otherize and externalize third world misery, and draw an arbitrary distention between itself and the other rather than viewing them as the same holistic system.

People aren't fleeing Syria because they they just have to live in Europe. They are fleeing it because Syria has become a proxy war between imperialist capitalist powers. Nobody wanted to flee Syria before shit hit the fan. In a world socialist society, first of all there would be no national conflict. Second of all, where there was conflict it would be in the collective interest of the whole globe to eliminate it, just as the body's immune system eliminates rogue pathogens and keeps them from contaminating the whole system. There is an organicist and cybernetic aspect to communism that is often overlooked.
>>

 No.158164

Closed borders only makes sense with closed interstate borders. Transplants are no different than immigrants.
>>

 No.158173

>>157829
>left wing anti-natalism
this just makes a population more right wing over time
>>

 No.158175

>>157791
i'm fine with people coming here, but don't create segrigated ethnic enclaves, people who do that should be kicked out
t first worlder
>>158164
internal boarders is one of the stupidest policies in existence
>>

 No.158366

>>158083
based, there are too many rich chinese international students in my city who can't speak english or drive for shit
>>

 No.158443

>>158161
even in discussions between leftists people somehow dont seem to get the last part or bring it up. almost every single immigration crisis has been a result of imperialist war or economic hardship
>>

 No.158444

>>

 No.158462

>>157791
Open boarders under capitalism don't necessarily solve a lot of problems, as it's basically immigrants/ refugees fleeing for either economic reasons or because they have been displaced, and thus having to go to another capitalist country to live in peace. Of course what a lot of liberals/reactionaries don't understand is that the reasons for their displacement can be traced back to capitalism itself in one way or another. It's still within our duty to show solidarity with the international working class.

I'm not going to give descriptions of what "socialist society" would look like, in regards to how they handle immigration as it would imply that each would function the same, but that being said

>>158161 and >>157857 make pretty good points.
>>

 No.158700

>>157791

is it wrong to oppose immigration from reactionary countries
>>

 No.158701

>>158700
>people fleeing from reactionary Countries

Why would we oppose them?
>>

 No.158702

>>158366
Huh, so the stereotype's actually true I guess…
>>

 No.158705

>>158701
because they are middle/upper class Latin American gusanos, rich hong congers, modi supporting hindu fascists who are going to support conservatives / tories
>>

 No.158707

>>158173
>politics is genetically transmitted
nazi-tier understanding of humanity
>>

 No.158709

>>158705
If they come to a Socialist Country they should anticipate the fact that any kind of nonsense from them will be punished
>>

 No.158717

>>158705
you think the latam caravans are gusanos?
>>

 No.158720

>>158707
Not him.
It isn't as much genetically transferred as much as you are more likely to be right-wing when grown up in a right-wing family.
>>

 No.158909

>>158707
Politics isn't genetically correlated but the values that your parents raise you with will effect your politics, people's political leanings have a very strong correlation with their parent's political leanings. If you want their to be more socialists then have a kid.
>>

 No.159506

>>157822
is there actually a difference in the supply chain for workers shipping/making strawberry vs chocolate ice cream or is this just a shitpost
>>

 No.160147

>>158055
>I don't interact with many people irl
That explains a lot lmao

>locking down and wearing muzzles forever

>Mask mandates are somehow "Muzzles"
Is this nigga Phil Greaves' Yank cousin lmao
>>

 No.160149

>>158055
>wearing muzzles forever.
They're not muzzles they're face diapers m8
>>

 No.160195

Irrelevant until after at least a single country establishes a DotP. Then maybe not immigrant labor but I don’t see why students or work-study people can’t come in the spirit of socialist internationalism, maybe let people who marry into or cohabitate with locals stay. This should also be coupled with major international cooperation and the fraternal development of other parts of the world, particularly in establishing successful socialist regimes and developing those places. Instead of immigration, we’ll have international anticolonial, antiracist solidarity movements where countries help each other create and maintain societies worth living in.

Most people don’t immigrate because they want to actually be somewhere else, they do it because of economic needs. If they are able to stay in their home countries, in their homes, for that matter, and be able to get their economic needs met, that’s a win-win for them,

Nevertheless, I am suspect of people who’re like “stop mass immigration or you’re a liberal” at this current juncture. Porky has a vested interest in making cash flow across borders, but keeping people from doing the same. He also benefits from weakening the position of existing immigrants in the country, particularly undocumented ones. Quite frankly, I think that the leftists who bitch about “mass immigration” and think that this is a primary issue to address before others are just closet racists. Particularly if they’re the kind who are like “immigrants are scabs/gusanos.”

>>157857
База, русский товарищ.
>>

 No.160196

File: 1617931810926.jpg (75.06 KB, 894x500, immigration first world.jpg)

>>

 No.160199

>>158705
Indian-American, here. My dad is a liberal and my mom’s an honest to god hindufascist, but I’m a communist and there are many Socialists and Communists of Indian Extraction. Fuck you.
>>

 No.160224

File: 1617933262828.png (61.51 KB, 640x730, 7abbe5c7293a6a7b9e2edef58e….png)

>>160196
>they're not sending their best
>>

 No.160229

File: 1617933503538.png (167.05 KB, 527x297, wp0_wp0_wp0_wp1c94a05c.png)

>>160224
More like
>they should send their worst on purpose
>>

 No.160263

File: 1617935091009.jpg (70.43 KB, 600x743, 1482019380875.jpg)

>>157939
>>157930
>"academics attempted to study /pol/"
>it was some /b/tard pranking UN about rare Pepes
>neither Publix nor the Saturn Pepe have existed prior to that report
>>

 No.160265

>>160196
Unruhe almost sounds like a legit political theorist here.
>>

 No.160326

File: 1617938208551.jpg (82.08 KB, 628x356, Lenin_on_the_Train (1).jpg)

>>158133
>Hoping for "closed borders" as a solution is naive at best, dangerous collaboration at worst.
I don't know why anyone thinks increasing the deportation powers of states is supposed to make revolution easier. The whole history of socialist revolution is a history of border-hopping revolutionaries violating laws of this kind to get things rolling. Karl Marx was a stateless person and Lenin was exiled. I'm also pretty sure Fidel and Che didn't go through customs when they landed in the Granma.

I assume anyone who thinks closed borders = good just sounds like a cop to me and I don't trust them, will never trust them.
>>

 No.160331

>>157975
I will pay for middle-easterners and africans to find you and physically re-educate you. You fucking failed abortion.
>>

 No.160335

>>157975
>america may be shit but I still don't want a bunch of muslims or any more jews moving over here.
I thought you were Canadian
>>

 No.160385

I advocate for white genocide of the US & Canada and of western europe.
>>

 No.161175

>>160326
>I assume anyone who thinks closed borders = good just sounds like a cop to me and I don't trust them
This
>>

 No.161182

Immigration is an inevitability of capitalism, and I can't say it is inherently a good or bad thing. It can be a completely neutral thing, a method to divide an existing working class and drive up labour competition (as Amazon has unfortunately studied), or a method to deprive developing countries of important specialist labour and keep them perpetually reliant on the core.

Most immigration issues seem to be fundamentally a distraction of the core causes of immigration and the problems caused by those exploiting it.
>>

 No.161196

>>157975
ask me how i know you’re an autist

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