No.1588924[Last 50 Posts]
REMEMBER:
This Is All Babylon Bee-esque satire!™
>My Leninhat LARP has reached an impasse since one of the mod I honestly dont know which one because I can't find ban logs on ogre has flagged me for ban evasion. I've reached the peak of impersonating that Angloid anyway, not to mention that quite a few others will continue impersonating him thanks to my antics. His reputation has been sullied.<What's next?>👆🏿👀👆🏿<👉🏿👀👉🏿>We'll find out.
>Balts & Poles will open up portals in Moscow and invade with this new technology, revolutionizing warfare forever and making putinoids sore.
<My babushka is so zigga she would make Iron Felix blush, she would totally send me to storm the Kremlin if Putin somehow cucks out of the conflict>Putin must instantly nuke a NATO member for deporting a babushka or I, Gunther Felixlinger, will declare him #Cucktin on the internet
>You have until finish googling for an alt-history map of your state, to honor my demands.>Or I will be forced to post it, accompanied with a wojak-like selfie and grandstanding demands of balkanization>I am wearing a suit, this is very serious!
<what's Zelenskyy's current search history?>how Wehrmacht could have won>how Wehrmacht could have won NOT HOI4>military strategy for beginners youtube>r/nato-wave open Reddit account>putin address>how to escape a country via land>learn polish 101>lukashenko pics rule 34>How Ukraine's F-16 Completely Change the War With Russia>is the UAE in BRICS?>UAE oil prices>cheap flight to the Emirates>how to convert to islam>can i sell italian villa>how did a cook lead wagner>can a cook become italian leader?>Recipe for pizza ( easy to prepare )>Best ukrainian ww2 hits 2023>Why Ukraine is winning>Why Ukraine must win>How can Ukraine win?>Why Zelensky is awesome>How to kill myself
<you WILL become a jungle boy
>Blood Tribe members emphasize hyper-masculinity; the group does not allow female members.<we're so not gay we ban women—————————————————–
Evidence of the influence and origin of neo-Nazi groups in Ukrainehttps://archive.ph/44B9Qhttps://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323637https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323658https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323663https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323688https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323729https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323733https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323731https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323735https://archive.ph/x1sRT#1323740—————————————————–
ALWAYS APPROACH SOURCES CRITICALLYDevelopments of multipolarity timelinehttps://www.pacemaker.global/multipolar-transition-timeline (
Note: Dead link. Update with new link, por favor.)
Live maps and updatesDeepStateMap:
https://deepstatemap.liveEvents in Ukraine:
https://eventsinukraine.substack.com/SouthFront:
https://southfront.org/category/all-articles/world/europe/ukraine/Watch Together📺
News/events:
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/HappeningsviaKlash📺
Hangout/chill:
https://tv.leftypol.org/r/bloodcastWatch By Yourself>Video Essays / Historical Background📺
Ukraine: The Avoidable War - Boy Boy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LL4eNy4FCs8📺
America, Russia, and Ukraine's Far Right - Gravel Institute
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t0pyVJG7_6Q📺
Crimea vs Taiwan: Who Gets Self-Determination? - BadEmpanada
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W_UH4fmyj0📺
The Nature of Putin's Russia and Its Causes (3-Part Series) - 1Dime
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8d6Vzi7zYghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zODWTfMwFGwhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZN1KK9Mzuo
<Current Happenings 📺
Defense Politics Asia:
https://www.youtube.com/@DefensePoliticsAsia📺
The Duran:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCdeMVChrumySxV9N1w0Au-w📺
The News Atlas:
https://www.youtube.com/c/thenewatlas📺
Military Summary:
https://www.youtube.com/@militarysummary—————————————————–
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It helps mediate schizoposting and foot fetishism• this is /isg/ for people who treat geopolitics like shitty map games
No.1588930
Ukraine claimed that at least one Russian attack drone fired overnight on one of its Danube delta ports had crashed across the river on to the territory of Nato-member Romania, marking a potentially serious escalation of Moscow’s full-scale invasion of its neighbour.
Romania’s defence ministry “categorically denied” the reports on Monday. Two Ukrainian officials told the Financial Times that it was not the first time such an incident had occurred but declined to explain why Bucharest would deny it.
https://www.ft.com/content/4ff04e76-6369-45b8-adc5-092cf08f5e78 No.1588961
Reposting the new Defense Minister background post from the end of the last thread. —
You hear Zelensky is axing Reznikov as defense minister? Here is who they are replacing him with :^)
>Rustem Umerov, who is currently in charge of privatisation, is set to be his replacement.Lol! No doubt these orders came from Washington. Some background on the very glowing Mr. Umerov:
>Local sources in Ukraine that spoke to United World International pointed out that Rustem Umerov is directly connected to the US. They also inform that Umerov spends part of the funds he receives from foreign governments on personal purposes. The Ukrainian Member of Parliament Umerov has in his young days participated in the Future Leaders Exchange (FLEX) program of the US Department of State, as open sources indicate.
>While Crimea was part of Ukraine, Umerov also received education in a boarding school, opened for high talented kids by the Crimean Ministry of Education and financed by the FETO.
>His brother Ruslan Umerov, in official documents running as Aslam Ömer Qırımlı, has also been educated in this school and has connections to the FETO. Both brothers are well known in Kyiv as “America’s children”.(FETO = Fethullah Gülen movement. Gülen lives in exile in the U.S. More reading:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gülen_movement )
No.1588963
>>1588958>>Ukraine’s current counteroffensive will not throw Russia out — not that anyone expected it to.I spat out. LMAO
No.1588964
>>1588958>>not that anyone expected it toLmao what happened to Crimea by summer?
No.1588966
>>1588958>Ukraine’s current counteroffensive will not throw Russia out — not that anyone expected it to.Weird thing to read in a news article rather than a comment below one
No.1588967
This guy is a dissident Ukrainian who is a scholar. He is Always very informative. This is his thoughts on recent shuffle in Ukraine leadership
https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1698735594132619433?t=dC9TShRXko0g4StF1nGEww&s=19My comment to leading Portuguese newspaper concerning replacement of defense minister of Ukraine by Zelensky: Zelensky replaced his defense minister for two main reasons. The first involves corruption scandals with procurement for the military. The Ukrainian media reported that the Ministry of Defense bought at highly inflated prices eggs and jackets for the military. Zelensky by firing Reznikov wanted to show to Ukrainians and to the Biden administration and the US Congress before his visit to the US that he is keen on fighting corruption in military procurement and the use of the massive US military aid to Ukraine. The second reason is to make Reznikov the fall guy for the failure of the counteroffensive to reach the objectives and take back Donbas and Crimea that Zelensky promised.
The new defense minister is selected primarily for PR reasons. He is a Crimean Tatar and a Muslim. Zelensky wants to showcase the drive to take back the Russian-annexed Crimea and appeal to the Muslim Crimean Tatar minority in Crimea. And the appointment of the Muslim defense minister is designed to sway Muslim countries, many of which tried to remain relatively neutral and did not join the Western sanctions against Russia for the invasion of Ukraine.
The replacement of the defense minister is a largely a political and PR move by Zelensky aimed at the US, Ukrainians, and the Crimean Tatars and Muslims. It is unlikely to change or influence the war’s outcome. There is virtually zero chance of the Ukrainian forces take back Donbas and Crimea. As the Ukrainian counteroffensive attempt confirms, Russia has a significant military advantage over Ukraine. Russia can also resort to use of nuclear weapons in the very unlikely case that its hold over Crimea would be threatened.
No.1588974
>>1588967The posturing towards Crimean Tatars by both Ukraine and the West since 2015 has pretty much been seen as proof that the policy is derussification and how it is specifically an answer to a popular veto on Euromaidan. It was incredibly stupid of the West to think it would be able to order the national minority around and sell it as sovereignty making up for the past. It created the Russian sovereignty issue actually driving the war.
The neocons unleashed a reckoning via their interaction with Crimea tbh. It's the most clear cut issue of the entire crisis. It represents how tearing down an 'empire' quickly turned into a national liberation issue due to the regression unleashed by the end of the cold war.
No.1588992
>>1588958Two more
weeks years!!
No.1588996
>>1588992It's Russia which was supposed to steamroll the country in two weeks though, or three days if you listened to Luka. A quagmire to 2025 doesn't sound very good for Russia.
No.1588998
>>1588996According to the Pentagon's initial estimations too, iirc.
No.1589000
>>1588998>the Pentagon's initial estimationsShould've been the death nail for that prediction. These guys couldn't even withdraw from Afghanistan properly.
No.1589001
>>1589000Death knell* you rapscallion
No.1589003
>>1589002Stop hoarding and especially stop hoarding image board posts of all things.
No.1589005
>>1589003>hoardingWhat the fuck are you on about?!
>hoarding image board posts Again, what the fuck are you talking about? archive.is is used to archive websites including news articles to save them in case of deletion. This prevents people from erasing falsehoods or deleting unwanted truths from the internet.
No.1589014
>>1589008there were plenty of great ukrainians in the red army, we dont need to dig up some anarchists who fought ussr
No.1589015
>>1589012Lmfao
Based Ukraine????
No.1589017
>>1589008shit OP. Who normally does it? They should continue doing it. Also wtf is going on with the board? I was just scanning the overboard and it seems like shit threads and mentions of other forums. Also, has the latest Animarchy History vid dropped yet?
No.1589023
>>1589012Makhno was the first dengist
No.1589024
>>1589012>Makhno's likeness is used to promote hecking smol businesserinosRough, even worse than the commodification of Che's imagery
No.1589038
>>1588958They're backpedaling, holy shit they're losing faith in this war.
No.1589041
>>1589008how did he manage to have the school shooter look in 1918 already
No.1589046
>>1588961Well when you're running out of options try to siphon as much government and corporate control to Washington before the far-right inevitably coups your failstate
No.1589058
>>1589050Critical support to Gunter in his fight for a free Palestine
No.1589061
>>1589050When you neocon so hard you end up on the anti-Israel axis 💀.
No.1589062
>>1589050This proves the neocon anti-imperialist horseshoe theory.
No.1589063
>>1589050Guntherbros…we are so fucking back he WILL balkanize Israel yes sir
No.1589066
>>1588963Wonderful revisionism.
Will the doubters please stand up and present themselves, please?
No.1589070
>>1589067BUT PUTLER! BUT IRAN!!
No.1589071
>>1589067That's easy, fascists consider lying to you acceptable political strategy, and they just say whatever they think will get you to shut the fuck up and fall in line.
No.1589084
>>1589050Russia is a mustache twirling, comic book level villain.
That's why we threaten to systematically dismantle any of our allies who don't fall in line in our fight against them.
No.1589103
>>1589064No one asked but this is a shot from Zelensky's "Servant of the People" series. If it didn't involve Zelensky, it would've been banned in Ukraine and called Russian state propaganda by NAFOids in the current year. In that episode Zelensky goes to the future to discover that Ukraine had been balkanized into 28 states after six Maidans. Including the USSR (Union of Sovereign Self-reliant Republics) incorporating Donbass and Luhansk, a Chinese-leased territory, "Western Georgia" run by Saakashvili and more.
In another episode Zelensky encounters the ghost of Ivan the Terrible who doesn't know what Ukraine is (despite the current narrative saying that Ukraine is thousands of years old) and they have a mostly benign conversation, though Ivan ends up killing Zelensky and holding him like in the famous painting while bemoaning how Westerners ruin the unity of Slavs.
No.1589104
<CNN - Ukraine needs to "soften its approach" to revive Black Sea grain deal with Russia, Turkish president says | Sept 4
>Ukraine needs to “soften its approach” to revive the Black Sea grain deal, from which Russia withdrew in July, Turkish President Recep Tayyip Erdogan said on Monday.
>"In order to be able to take common steps with Russia, Ukraine needs to soften its approach. Especially now, grain which will be sent to the least developed poverty-stricken African countries is important,” Erdogan said at a joint press conference with Russian President Vladimir Putin after a meeting in Sochi.
>“Putin rightfully does not approve if 44% of the grain goes to European countries,” the Turkish leader added.
>Erdogan said Turkey has prepared a new proposal with the United Nations to revive the grain deal, which involves "important improvements."
>“From the Turkish side, I believe we will be able to reach a solution soon which fulfills the expectations (regarding the grain deal),” he said.
>The previous grain deal from which Russia pulled out, was brokered by Turkey and the United Nations. It lasted about a year and allowed billions of dollars worth of grain and wheat to safely transit out of war-torn Ukraine via the Black Sea.
ZRADAAAAAAA
No.1589118
>>1589112Well now I want to know what a hitler radio morning radio show would sound like.
No.1589125
>>1589024Well, actually a lot of Makhno's supporters were petty bourgeois peasants who didn't care much for his social experiments and drifted towards Makhno not just because they opposed grain requisitions but also the Bolshevik policy of intensification of rural class struggle.
No.1589140
anyone got "patron saint of nato non arguments"
No.1589148
>>1589143thanks, somebody's shitting up /siberia/ with "whatabout utkin" again
No.1589166
>>1589155>>1589155>>IPs per hour go from 350 to 250Where are you getting the metrics, just the front page?
No.1589167
>>1589166Yeah, do we have more?
No.1589170
>>1589167Not afaik. We should have access to much more granular stats so that time isn't wasted on raids or whatever.
No.1589180
>>1589148>whatabout utkinBut Uktkin is supposedly dead along with Prigozhin now, so that's that I guess
No.1589182
>>1589118He would be the third seat on the Adam Friedland Show and make a special guest appearance on Chapo.
No.1589275
>>1589271Nice, I wonder what took it out?
No.1589276
>>1589272
hi chihvahva
No.1589278
>>1589275Artillery, probably. Would be no video, and no simple shrapnel dink at the end there, otherwise.
No.1589281
>>1589271Do these guys seriously have no self preservation or what
No.1589282
>>1589272
leg status?
No.1589283
>>1589278>>1589274>>1589271>Wikipedia is still saying <"To date, the only time a tank has been destroyed during operations was by accidental friendly fire from another Challenger 2 in Basra in 2003." LMAO
No.1589320
>>1589272
>I mean, Dmitry Utkin was the founder of Wagner. Putin didn’t want a skinhead in charge of the group that’s supposed to be fighting nazism in Ukraine, so he elected to go with his personal chef (who happened to have had more charisma as a front facing leader). Rusich is a Wagner-adjacent group led by a sadist nazi. I’m not saying to support Ukraine, it’s just stating very basic facts.
I don't think there's any evidence Wagner is anything but a PMC used by Russian intelligence. The Utkin photo is relied on due to a dearth of Western knowledge about Wagner and evidence that the Russian state relies on the far right. Ukraine in contrast gives you a web of relations, you don't have to look any further than what Dmitro Yarosh and Andriy Parubiy navigated into from the streets. We can then point to actual events like the Odessa massacre, the assaults by nationalists in parliament, oligarchs like Kolomoisky deliberately funding the far right like Azov while issuing bounties on separatists. We then have an idea of the ideology of the era. You don't have to look for photos of obscure founders of the proxy of a state that isn't exactly known for the populism seen at Maidan.
No.1589327
>>1589272
>I mean, Dmitry Utkin was the founder of Wagner.
Even if we assume Wagner really is full nazi, then the situation is that we have the equivalent of Erik Prince and Blackwater but Nazi and Russian.
>There are Russian nazis who fight for Ukraine, but also those who fight for Russia.
Its not really about nazis who fight for Ukraine but how Ukraine has Nazis in official government office and multiple Nazi political parties that are widely accepted and operate in public. And that these Nazis wouldn't still be around if the United States didn't airlift them out of Ukraine in the 1950s to save them from the Gulag. The most concerning thing is about how Nazi street gangs were officially incorporated into the national guard and civilian police under territorial defense units and hold key positions in the military, legislature, and cabinet. Russia doesn't have Nazi secret police writing their laws and running Nazi death squads against their own citizens and didn't rehabilitate Nazi collaborators and welcome them into the government.
No.1589334
>>1589325
Tbh this post is a non sequitur. I don't necessarily disagree with some of the things you're saying otherwise.
No.1589335
>>1589320my man always comes thru w/ the answers
No.1589345
TLDR post, Ukraine is likely more desperate than ever now. I'd like to highlight 2 key develops recently.
According to google translated article from Poland…
<https://www.rp.pl/swiat/art39049061-polska-zaczela-wydawac-ukrainie-jej-obywateli-ktorzy-trudnia-sie-przemytem-ludzi>According to data from the Border Guard Headquarters prepared for "Rzeczpospolita", from February 24 last year to August 31 this year, nearly 2.87 million Ukrainian citizens aged 18-60 entered Poland and nearly 2.8 million Ukrainians left. […] about 80,000 remain in Poland. Ukrainians potentially subject to mobilization in the country. How many of them actually met the exemption requirements? It is unknown.
>"This is an important number for Ukraine, because these people could be mobilized and increase the ranks of our armed forces, thereby strengthening our defense and security," says Fedir Venislavsky of the National Security, Defense and Intelligence Committee of the Verkhovna Rada of Ukraine.[…]
>To bring such men back to the country, Ukraine must issue an international arrest warrant for each of them. – If we stop such a foreigner, e.g. for a regular road check, […] will show that he is a person prosecuted by the prosecutor's office from Ukraine, because Interpol data is located there. We arrest such a person and inform the prosecutor's office. The Polish court decides whether she will be extradited, the inspector tells us. Mariusz Ciarka, spokesman for the Police Headquarters. So there you have it, Ukraine is now likely going to the refugees that fled abroad and forcing them to come back. It would be terribly cynical, though admittedly useful if Europe complied. Europeans might see it as a good chance to dump Ukrainian refugees before they potentially integrate and become a fifth column in the country pursuing revanchism against Russia like the Cuban exiles in Florida.
The second is the increased shelling of Donetsk and Belgorod within last 4 months.
Normally, as nasty as it is, I don't pay much attention to the regular Ukrainian shelling of the Belgorod region and Donetsk city. HE artillery isn't "safe" per se, but reinforced concrete is quite good at resisting regular HE, so despite increased non-stop shelling since the war began, civilian casualties have remained thankfully low, your roof but blow off, but there's a pretty good chance you're going to be ok. However, now that the Ukraine has access to large amounts of cluster munitions, the dynamics have changed, Rybar has reported a substantial increase in civilian casualties since cluster shells started landing in Donetsk. They've also definitely increased the rate of shelling within the last 4 or so months.
Despite that, I consider the continuous shelling of Donetsk and Belgorod to be one of the damned silly things about the war. It's the same as the strategic bombing campaign, only worse because Ukraine does not have excess resources to waste. It's like in 1944 when the Nazis started firing V1 and V2 rockets at London, a waste of time and effort that could have been better spent. Imagine being generally outgunned across the front, and still wasting time, effort and precious ammo shelling civilians. On the one hand the Ukrainians are clearly trying to bait the Russians into a haphazard attack that can be destroyed like at Vuhledar/Ugledar/whatever. On the other, Russia hasn't been responding and likely isn't going to.
It's a cold and terrible calculus, but I doubt Russia cares much if the Ukrainians are wasting ammo attacking civilians, Russia is probably comfortably letting Ukraine shell Donetsk and Belgorod as much as they want. All the better to waste ammo on fairly hard targets of limited military value.
So in conclusion comrades, I think we can safely say the Ukrainians have never been more desperate than now, except maybe during the initial Russian attack in Feb-Mar 2022, yes their situation was always getting worse since the start of the war, but I think the glimmer of hope that Western lend-lease provided has only made the resulting crash feel even harder. Russia can certainly see this as well, I would go so far as to say that there will likely not be any major Russian offensives for the foreseeable future as most of their forces are in a tight defensive posture and the Ukrainians are clearly cracking slowly and steadily. Russia will likely aim to slowly chip
I could be wrong of course, maybe if the ground hardens during the Winter we will see a big one, but I just don't see it.
There is also a video of a long line of Ukrainians surrendering near Klecheevska/Kliishicska/whatever the fuck. I dunno how to embed videos from nitter, but armchairwarlord had a thread about it.
https://nitter.net/ArmchairW/status/1698812390815789192#rThere is still a ways to go, but the Ukrainians are definitely starting to crack and break.
No.1589347
>>1589345but ukraine is apparently trying to mobilize 300k more men now. if they succeed that raises a problem: does ukraine have that many coffins?
No.1589364
>>1589283fixed now. Let's see how long it stays that way before getting "debunked"
No.1589368
>>1589364Kek so far it's still up. Someone archive the page
No.1589369
>>1589368>>1589364I archived the Atlas article that reported the burning tank. I'm betting r/NonCredible is either pretending it hasn't happened or is jabbering with explanations and justifications for how their uber-armored tank was roasted just like all the "st00pid russkie" tanks they were shit-talking.
No.1589370
>>1589366Living his best life
No.1589381
>>1589379And? British tabloids. If you read them, jokes on you.
Doesn't change the fact that all MBTs of similar age are approximately equal because they spend insane amounts of research and intellugence work on being heads up with future opponents.
No.1589384
>>1589381Voice that opinion everywhere else than here and see what people think about that.
No.1589407
>>1589375>boatloads of clapped T-90M Actually no, there are not. There's a handful, and out of them one was literally abandoned because the track had been blown off by an RPG and the Russians couldn't evac the tank at the time because of the ongoing front situation. After that I've seen maybe 2 T-90Ms actually destroyed and I'm not even sure if it was 2 seperate ones either.
>All tanks die, including to cheap and hilariously old weapons like drone dropped RKG-3. The point is because Westernoid fap endlessly to their tanks and screech about "muh bad soviet tanks" even though it is not only patently untrue, but also incredibly stupid, this is part of the military-industrial complex, creating a narrative of superiority over the subhuman russians in tech too. Except that it is not only untrue but also doesn't matter in real life actual war conditions, and so every Leo-2, Bradley and Challenger that is lost is all the more reason to point and laugh.
Also the RKG-3 had a massive penetration for a tiny hand-grenade and a bare roof on a Leo-2 is 30mm. The T-72 has 40mm armor on the roof, not including ERA.
No.1589418
>>1589050show me the map of dismantled Israel or it never happened
No.1589419
>>1589272
Prigozhin claimed he founded what became "PMC Wagner" as a private businessman (not that I believe that angle) back in 2014. Utkin being the founder was always Western journalist speculation because he was leading an unpatched combat unit back then.
Personally I think there is ample evidence to suspect Utkin's original "Wagner" was just a deniable GRU unit and that "PMC Wagner" was formed later by Prigozhin under FSB/GRU direction for use in Syria and Africa.
No.1589421
>>1589407>Actually no, there are not. There's a handful, and out of them one was literally abandoned because the track had been blown off by an RPG and the Russians couldn't evac the tank at the time because of the ongoing front situation. After that I've seen maybe 2 T-90Ms actually destroyed and I'm not even sure if it was 2 seperate ones either. Maybe if you close your eyes. There's probably half a dozen destroyed since the counteroffensyiv started.
RKG 3 are hilarious because they're well below 100 USD, but defeat the whole cold war tank concept, which is based on heavy front armor and everything else is a combined arms problem.
No.1589422
>>1589421Artillery is currently doing the same thing from 40km away, instead of right on top of them. None of these things "defeat" the concept of an MBT. Just like existence of bullets does not "defeat" the concept of a soldier. Tanks are not at that level of investment-game-theory.
No.1589423
>>1589421>There's probably half a dozen destroyed since the counteroffensyiv started. Proofs? The T-90M wasn't even deployed until months after the SVO started
>defeat the whole cold war tank concept Not on their own.
A) Крупнокалиберный Переполох did a video where he used them against a T-72 he had. The penetration on the roof is ok (it has to hit a thin-spot), but getting it to land right is almost impossible as a hand grenade, it takes a shitton of practice. And just the plain old grenades from drones just fall unevenly, so they have to have extra fin stabilizers attached to modify them.
B) ERA basically negates them, as do the cage structures over the tanks, for all of /k/s mockery about "cope cages" they actually are fairly effective in reducing top-attack, and are especially effective against FPV drones, both suicide types with the mounted RPG-7 warheads and grenade droppers. The T-72B3M Mod.2022 and T-90M have extremely improved ERA layout on the turret so there's that
C) EM jamming by Russia has been very effective, can't hit a tank roof if your drone loses connection and drops out of the sky instead.
C) T
No.1589424
>>1589421There is effective counter to RKG-3 except stand-off cages/ERA or ECM against the drones. Has nothing to do with Cold War tanks having too much front armour.
They (or RPG-7s) have been used in top attacks against tanks since they were invented. The "combined arms" just hasn't caught up to the required amount of anti-drone systems needed.
No.1589425
>>1589424*There is no effective counter
No.1589426
>>1589423>for all of /k/s mockery about "cope cages" What did happen to Ukraine's Javelins?
No.1589427
>>1589050Maybe Fehlinger isn't a NATO guy after all, but has an intense and uncureable attraction to the abstract idea of splitting itself. It does not matter whether it's countries, marriages, or atoms. He probably faps to videos of people chopping wood.
No.1589429
>>1589428I wonder if they did use them all up doing stupid shit like taking out firing holes, or if the warehouses got Kalibrated.
No.1589430
>>1589429The one interview with a Ukrainian POW said they were useless. Some western articles mentioned the 240 page manual and lack of a
tech support call centre being provided to Ukraine to help with using the things. The Argon battery on one only lasts 4 hours.
No.1589434
>>1589432>NLAW the top-attack function is weaker, because it's a separate warhead than the frontal oneFunny thing about that, it's not. The shaped charge is just pointed down. It spooges the jet at a 90 degree angle, while flying over the target at high velocity. That's why the direct fire is much less effective.
And I have no idea how useful it actually is, because the entire reason Fin Stabilization was introduced was because a shaped charge simply spinning on its axis reduced penetration potential.
No.1589435
>>1589434>I have no idea how useful it actually isAgainst a bare tank roof? Very. Against any modern ERA? fucking useless unless hitting the thinnest part of the roof.
No.1589437
>>1589345Just repost videos here in the future. I can't access nitter for some reason
No.1589438
>>1589432 > Moreover the Javelin was tested on an old tank with slat armor by the Ukrainians and barely penetrated. Things that certainly did not happen.
No.1589440
>>1589439I'd say its possible overstated, but not impossible. There were several Soviet Snipers that have comparable confirmed kill counts, so it's not outside the scope of possibility. Now Nazi Fighter Aces on the other hand…
No.1589441
>>1589439What's the amount of kills claimed?
My coworker's son was mobilised as a sniper (was trained as a sniper before while serving conscription) and had 25 confirmed kills in January, maybe more now. ~50 may be technically possible
No.1589442
>>1589439If I remember correctly, he was a machine gunner that they attributed all kills to for some reason
No.1589444
>>1589441Supposedly 500 in 3 months
No.1589447
>>1589439Gotta love typing "RuSSian" while gushing about Finland that fought on the side of the Axis
No.1589448
Häyhä killed tons of Soviets. The numbers aren’t confirmed and never will be, but he was known for being a masterful sniper. Alyosha is a twitteroid nonce, please do not spread any falsehoods from him.
No.1589449
>after Britain, now the US sends depleted Uranium to Ukraine
Red line status?
No.1589450
>>1589449Moved four more kilometers east of the Urals.
No.1589451
>>1589320Wasn’t the only source for Utkin being a Nazi from a Voice of America broadcast?
That was the only source I could ever find when I first looked into it but it has been a while since then.
No.1589453
>>1589451The evidence is an unsourced photo of a man who looks like Utkin with SS tattoos from Russian social media (which even glowiepedia can't confirm). And that Utkin's call sign was "Wagner".
No.1589454
>anons refusing to accept the fact that Utkin, founder of Wagner, was a Nazi
No.1589455
>>1589454TBH I'd like some proofs beyond a sourceless photo and hearsay. paganism and nationalism maybe, but outright nazism is hated by most Russians.
No.1589456
>>1589454Sorry hun, according to reliable Western sources the photo is only "purportedly" or "allegedly" of Utkin.
Deboonked.
No.1589457
>>1589454where is the proofs
No.1589462
>>1589439The amount of disinfo spread universally across the media and internet in the last few years made me question everything you read in history books.
>>1589453That settles it then. Irrefutable proof.
No.1589480
>>158944498,1% chance of being bullshit
No.1589483
>>1589439brother the only honest answer is "no one knows". there are enough people really good at killing that it wouldnt be surprising, and there are enough historical fabrications that it wouldnt be surprising either way.
No.1589498
>>1589439I would say it was probably true. The winter war was a farce honestly.
Though the true irony of this post is that the forces used to invade Finland were primarily Ukrainian armies
No.1589502
>>1589439The issue with the story isn't the sniper bit, it's the part where he supposedly got half of his kills with a submachine gun.
This would make him literally the most effective close combatant in all history, bar none. And yet the claim made is 250.
No.1589504
>>1589499Take this with a grain of salt but according to PMC media Russia is trying to get a crap ton of mercenaries to counter manpower shortage. There's uyghas from Nepal, Brazil, Syria in the war right now
No.1589506
>>1589504I keep hearing this for more than a year with different countries mentioned but have yet to see a single proof apart from DNR/LNR foreign volunteers in very small numbers
No.1589507
>>1589454Yea, there's no evidence Wagner is a Nazi org. Nobody has shown it's more than a state proxy.
No.1589508
>>1589506The Russians probably don't want to show footage of mercenaries.
No.1589511
>>1589452Yes you can go join ArmchairWarlord and RussiansWithAttitude in hopelessly trying to argue that Russian arms have never faltered and also Russia crushed Japan in 1905 because muh kill death ratio. Contract status?
No.1589517
>>1589508Surely the Ukrainians would have captured some by now if they were there in any significant number.
No.1589519
>>1589507I haven't seen a single picture of a Wagner fighter at the front sporting any Nazi iconography. Meanwhile it's so prevalent among the Ukrainians that even sympathetic outlets struggle to hide it.
https://www.newsweek.com/nato-says-it-didnt-notice-ukraine-soldiers-apparent-nazi-symbol-tweet-1686523 No.1589525
>>1589511>also Russia crushed Japan in 1905 because muh kill death ratiothat's literally the finntard argument lmao
No.1589532
Good write up
https://twitter.com/caitoz/status/1699042123864293885I’m seeing Republican presidential candidate Vivek Ramaswamy building up a lot of credibility in some antiwar circles, which is ridiculous because he’s clearly just another disgusting warmonger. He is not meaningfully different from all the other warmongers in the DC swamp.
I say this not because I’m some kind of purity police zealot who lets the perfect become the enemy of the good, nor because I don’t understand Ramaswamy’s appeal among those who oppose war and militarism. I totally get why it would look sparkly and interesting to see someone on the debate stage decrying neocons and wishing professional warmonger Nikki Haley the best of luck on the boards of Lockheed and Raytheon, and on the surface his support for a negotiated settlement in Ukraine looks admirable.
In reality, however, Ramaswamy is just one side of the dynamic we were discussing recently in which the populace is artificially manipulated into a power-serving debate over whether we should support warmongering against Russia or warmongering against China, thereby duping the public into arguing over how warmongering should occur rather than if it should. Ramaswamy is a virulent China hawk whose extreme militarism would greatly increase the risk of war with China if he became president, and the only reason he wants to end the war in Ukraine is to hamstring the PRC while rapidly increasing aggressions against Beijing.
Ramaswamy supports using Ukraine as a negotiating chip to pull Moscow away from Beijing, favorably comparing this approach to the way Richard Nixon exploited the Sino-Soviet split in negotiating to pull Beijing away from Moscow during the last cold war. Ramaswamy says he would negotiate to let the Russian Federation keep the Ukrainian territories it already controls and guarantee no future NATO membership for Ukraine in exchange for Moscow ending its military partnership with China. Ramaswamy doesn’t attempt to address the plot hole that there is no split between Moscow and Beijing to exploit today and that Putin would be an idiot to abandon his carefully cultivated relationship with Xi, but that’s an argument for another day.
The reason Ramaswamy is so eager to uncouple Moscow from Beijing is because he wants to focus the US empire’s firepower on aggressively confronting China (which he ominously refers to as “Communist China” as often as opportunity presents). He wants to rapidly increase the US empire’s encirclement of China, endorsing an “AUKUS-style deal” with India, calling for an increased military presence in the Pacific by France and the UK, and pushing allies surrounding China like Japan, Australia and the Philippines to increase their military budgets in preparation for war.
Ramaswamy has stated that he supports officially ending the policy of “strategic ambiguity” on whether or not the US military would defend Taiwan from an attack by the PRC, and committing to greatly enhancing Taiwan’s defenses “while running at least one destroyer warship through the Taiwan Strait each week.” While he’d previously given the impression that Taiwan would be left to fend for itself by 2028 after the US no longer needed it for semiconductor manufacturing, Ramaswamy has since walked back from that less hawkish position and now says in 2028 the US would simply revert to the status quo of strategic ambiguity.
Ramaswamy frames all this in terms of “deterrence”, with the idea being that China will be so cowed by this dazzling display of military force on its borders that it will play nice and act peaceful, but if Ukraine has taught us anything it’s that such escalations make war more likely, not less. As Geoffrey Roberts has competently argued in the Journal of Military and Strategic Studies, the west’s mad rush to turn Ukraine into a NATO asset likely caused Putin to make the calculation that it was better to fight a war now before a heavily armed super-proxy — potentially with nuclear weapons — could form on Russia’s doorstep.
History shows us that great powers just don’t take kindly to their rivals amassing military threats on their borders. As we discussed recently, the last time a credible military threat appeared near the border of the United States, the US responded so aggressively that it nearly ended the world. The reason the foreign policy “realists” have proved so accurate in their predictions about Ukraine is that they understood that no great power would put up with the things the west was doing in Russia’s immediate surroundings. There’s no reason to believe China would be any different.
Ramaswamy constantly portrays China as a “threat” to the United States — not just to US interests abroad but to the actual country and its people. He babbles jingoistically about Chinese spy balloons and spy bases in Cuba, claiming that China is waging “a modern opium war against the United States of America” by deliberately funneling fentanyl into the US with the help of Mexican drug cartels in order to hurt Americans.
In response to this supposed assault from a hostile foreign enemy, Ramaswamy pledges to reinvigorate the Monroe Doctrine, a 200 year-old colonialist doctrine which asserts that Latin America is essentially the property of the United States and is off limits to foreign competitors. This doctrine never really left — the US has been intervening in Latin American affairs at will to advance its geopolitical interests in some of the most depraved ways you can possibly imagine — but Ramaswamy’s vision is so hawkish and aggressive that he’s been openly pledging to invade Mexico to “annihilate” the cartels using US military force. He also decries the way “waves of leftism have roiled Latin America and created economic instability,” the implication being that the US should increase its efforts to install and maintain rightist regimes south of the border.
So while Ramaswamy may posture as an antiwar populist who hates neocons, in reality he’s just focused on advancing a specific aspect of the US warmongering agenda. An aspect which, as Michael Parenti explained in his book Superpatriotism back in 2004, just happens to be the one agenda that the neocons are most eager to advance:
“The PNAC plan envisions a strategic confrontation with China, and a still greater permanent military presence in every corner of the world. The objective is not just power for its own sake but power to control the world’s natural resources and markets, power to privatize and deregulate the economies of every nation in the world, and power to hoist upon the backs of peoples everywhere — including North America — the blessings of an untrammeled global ‘free market.’ The end goal is to ensure not merely the supremacy of global capitalism as such, but the supremacy of American global capitalism by preventing the emergence of any other potentially competing superpower.”
“PNAC” here refers to Project for the New American Century, a profoundly influential neoconservative think tank which helped pave the way for the surge in military expansionism and interventionism seen in the middle east during the Bush administration. Already back in 2004 Parenti could see that the ultimate target in the neoconservative unipolarist ideology was not Iraq, nor Iran, nor even Russia, but China.
After the fall of the Soviet Union the US war machine established the Wolfowitz Doctrine, which was a policy of ensuring that no rival superpowers emerge that could compete with the United States. Empire managers have long understood that this policy would eventually entail a forceful confrontation with China, because when the goal is unipolar planetary hegemony, there can only be one king.
China has always been the ultimate target in all the major geostrategic maneuverings of the empire in recent years, including Ukraine. Anyone who says they want to de-escalate with Russia in order to escalate against China is just another shitty warmonger like everyone else, because it’s the same agenda. In today’s world, China is the ultimate target of all US warmongering.
Some might object, “Okay, but Ukraine is the problem now and we should support anyone who wants to end that war first and foremost,” but I have no respect for that argument. The time to start fighting against the empire’s war plans for China is right now, because it’s on its way. The less we oppose it now, the easier it will be for the bastards to manufacture consent for that horrifying conflict when the time comes. This is exponentially more true of someone who is explicitly admitting that they only want to de-escalate against Russia to go after China.
Stop buying into this bogus song and dance. Stop buying into this schtick where opportunistic faux populists play into widespread anti-war sentiment while slyly advancing the agendas of the war machine. People bought into it with Trump for four years, and they’re buying into it with Vivek Ramaswamy again.
Are people not tired of having their intelligence insulted?
No.1589537
>>1589439Even modern Finnish historians say that likely his sniper kill count topped at 200s at the very best. And yes he was the finnish "ghost of Kiev" and a propaganda tool. Because as a sniper the bodies (or wounded) he left behind were left in the enemy side nobody could confirm the kills and sometimes even hits and because there was no spotter or anybody with him get a second opinion. Not even saying that anybody necessarily lied, but it was only his perception an his word, combined that the press probably inflated the numbers in attempt to craft heroes to keep moral up when Finland was still losing. That why he is the sniper with most kills, not the sniper with most confirmed kills.
No.1589542
>>1589537Wasn't his diary "found" only
after he got his jaw shot off and he was in a coma?
No.1589547
>sacks head of military for corruption
<makes the head of corruption the new head of military
I hate Ukrainians so much fuck them let them loose this war.
Completely brain dead worthless useless morons.
No.1589549
>>1589532Futile effort, the social media landscape dominated by Westoid cryptocurrency aficionados and proto fascists has already tied le wokeness to BLM and the CPC and being pro-Ukraine. Will this change anybody's mind, or will they continue to browse MrLordBebo and curse Westoid leaders for supporting transgender politics and shipping weapons to Ukraine under the sekrit leadership of Xi Jinping? BRICS, multipolarity, and imperialism don't even register in the minds of culture war addled netizens.
No.1589550
>>1589547There is the good kind of corruption (that removes bureaucratic backlog and thus build up productive forces) and the bad kind of corruption (the one that destroys your army). Sometimes you just need to grease the wheel
No.1589567
>>1589542Don't know about that, but war was already over when he woke up.
No.1589568
>>1589499Damn Russia must really be struggling to be using Cuban slaves as soldiers.
No.1589582
>>1589568Not necessarily.
It could be just as true thst some chancer was trying to cash in on the war through trying to rope in foreign nationals willing to fight, it does not follow really thst this means certainly the Russian military is ducked or 'struggling' in terms of manpower per we.
No.1589588
>>1589547>Cuban slaves its human trafficking because you cant legally become a mercenary if youre cuban, but I dont doubt the guys getting enrolled do it freely
No.1589597
>>1589588Sure. I am just stating it does not have the implication thst was being made.
No.1589616
>>1589588It's human trafficking because Cubans apply to attractive civilian work offers in Russia and are forcibly enrolled in paramilitary companies when they arrive there with passport confiscation and stuff like that.
No.1589639
>>1589547Unfortunately Cucktin is trying just as hard as Zelensky to lose the war.
No.1589642
>>1589499cuba is down really bad rn. I had a talk with somebody who just was there and instead of larping how great and glorious they are, we should do something to actually help. Theyll propably give not all up on socialism, but man is it rough without gasoline to transport food.. anything
No.1589644
>>1589642Gasoline is bad for the environment Cuba is leading the way forward on DEGROWTH and environment
No.1589646
It's quite funny to see /k/ and Twitter X try to pretend like there was never any hype around Western MBTs being wunderwaffen that would totally BTFO the Russians, /k/ is claiming anyone who ever claimed that Russia was going to struggle against Leopard 2s and Challenger 2s were actually Russian shills trying to overhype these tanks on purpose to pretend like destroying them will be humiliating for westerners.
Also of course whataboutism like "1 Challenger 2, 200,000 T-90Ms, you do the maths!"
No.1589652
>>1589642Damn did they go as one of the org initiatives? Is there a write up? IDK about Cuba's problems atm at all.
No.1589657
>>1589646That's just the story of the war in general.
The final narrative of the war will probably look a lot like the winter war. Ukraine, the heroic underdog, basically won the war because they killed a billion Russians (unconfirmed) and didn't capitulate entirely. Of course, that assumes they don't get partitioned by Poland or some shit, doesn't seem likely but it has been a weird war
No.1589659
>>1589657Ah that's already a given, I've seen so many Americans rhetorically ask "did we really lose in Vietnam" because how how many Vietnamese soldiers (and civilians) they killed and how they set their society back by decades from dropping thousands of tons of bombs, napalm and agent orange over it.
Eventually cruelty becomes the only professed goal of war and in the US they're already making the point that shedding Russian blood without America actually fighting means MISSION ACCOMPLISHED in Ukraine by default, if they're saying this before the war is already even over, then we know what their predictions for this war are.
No.1589661
>>1589588also cuba rightfully doesn't want people being drained from their already embargoed country
No.1589662
>>1589447Finland was the original Ukraine if you think about it. a proxy (finland/ukraine) for a much larger fascist power (nazi germany/NATO) fighting a sworn enemy (USSR/Russia) and being made to look like a heckin wholesome small bean just defending itself
No.1589665
>>1589659you make a fine point about the cruelty of fascist amerikkkan ideology, but it's kinda true that at the end of the day, if you have a higher k/d ratio (per capita) you will eventually wipe out and totally dominate your enemy, as long as no one else intervenes. It's a totally brutal and heartless way of thinking, which is why it's precisely how communists should think about the imperial core.
No.1589668
>>1589657That what screencaps are for.
No.1589669
>>1589665I'm no pacifist and I'm certainly happy to be called a Tankie on X, but the two most famous users of such savage tactics are unironically the United States and Nazi Germany with one calling it "Shock and Awe" and the other calling it "Blitzkrieg" and it didn't win them wars.
While Americans can gloat about how many people they killed in Vietnam and Afghanistan and Korea, all of these nations are still run by the same groups that the US tried to remove at pretty large expense. While the US can boast about winning on k/d, they're not winning when the ratio changes to money spent, frankly it's not too expensive to rebuild nations like mid-20th century Vietnam while the US is a bankrupt nation from investing big on war, blowing it all on Shock and Awe and then spending 10 years trying to peacekeep the hell on earth they've created before cutting their losses, accepting the spoils of war are not forthcoming and fucking off home to raise their debt ceiling again.
No.1589671
>>1589659Just throw ARVN numbers in their face. North Vietnam was both outnumbered and outgunned, yet still won with better casualty score.
>but!>So Soviet and Chinese trained and supplied Vietnamese count, but American and NATO trained and supplied Vietnamese don't, because..?And then watch them squirm.
No.1589674
>>1589671Based, I will have to use that if Vietnam ever gets raised again which tbqh it won't because boasting about dead Russians is all Americans ever wanted and they've got it now.
No.1589675
>>1589668Even Zelensky is still saying they're going to retake Crimea. Can't wait to see how people talk about him in a couple years
No.1589688
>>1589681To be fair, all those other people remained in control of their nations after they secured their power with US help, Zelensky is more likely to lose his country and therefore can't outlast his usefulness to the US alive.
No instead he is going to flee to the west and spend the rest of his life getting repeatedly wheeled out as the
heartbreaking example of why we should never forget that Russia is the enemy, so you know, prepare for that the next 30 to 40 years.
No.1589690
>Ludwig: Do you not think that among the Germans as a nation love of order is more highly developed than love of freedom?
>Stalin: There was a time when people in Germany did indeed show great respect for the law. In 1907, when I happened to spend two or three months in Berlin, we Russian Bolsheviks often used to laugh at some of our German friends on account of their respect for the law. There was, for example, a story in circulation about an occasion when the Berlin Social-Democratic Executive fixed a definite day and hour for a demonstration that was to be attended by the members of all the suburban organizations.
<A group of about 200 from one of the suburbs arrived in the city punctually at the hour appointed, but failed to appear at the demonstration, the reason being that they had waited two hours on the station platform because the ticket collector at the exit had failed to make his appearance and there had been nobody to give their tickets to. It used to be said in jest that it took a Russian comrade to show the Germans a simple way out of their fix: to leave the platform without giving up their tickets….
Is German autism real?
No.1589694
>>1589692God, yeah that's going to be a right fucker. It's going to be just like the Iraq War
>Erm Ackshually you can't blame that on the west>Didn't you know? The protests against the war were some of the largest and shortest in European history!>After the protests were ignored, we all just had to give up and not protest again really for the next 15 years, we'd already done everything we could>Really we're the true victims of the Iraq War<Meanwhile the civilians of our enemy deserve this invasion, if they were TRULY against their bond villain leader, they'd have risked life and limb and those of their families to depose him by force and not stop until either he is dead or they're all dead. No.1589699
If NATO wins, will they rename Moscow to Yeltsingrad or Poroshenkopol?
No.1589702
>>1589699Gunther would die from cooming if that ever happened.
No.1589705
>>1589644 This better be sarcasm. The environment and gasoline use by Cuba
A) Is barely a blip in emission
B) Is irrellevant when they need to keep their people fed.
>>1589646 Read one of the comments
>It did what it was designed to do, and presumably did it well. Inflict damage on the enemy, and protect its crew from return fire. Regroup and keep pushing forward. Like, that tank was demolished, I doubt anyone survived that and it's unlikely it even got to fire at anything.
No.1589707
>>1589705Stop responding to shitposts. That isn't even bait.
No.1589712
>>1589704Please refrain from calling Schatmann a Trotskyist.
No.1589713
>>1589665The US has destroyed the Vietnamese people by now.
No.1589714
>>1589705Oh yeah, a British newspaper claimed the entire crew survived because the turret didn't get launched
>Debatable btw, the turret looks a bit crooked and a combination of the huge weight of the turret and possibly understocked ammo racks would cause the turret to detach but not spectacularly soSo the tank has proven itself as doing what NATO tanks supposedly do best, give all its crewmen plot armour that allows them to shrug off fire, gasses and depleted uranium slugs ricocheting around the interior upon penetration, so they can all escape safely.
No.1589723
>>1589720Yeah, it's the same deal in the Leopard 2 as well but for some reason it's the T-72s and T-80s that prove Soviet tank designers didn't care about crew survivability by putting ammo in the hull lmao
No.1589734
>>1589644source: Animarchy History youtube channel
No.1589735
>>1589729>stop redesigning the world>WITHOUT ME!>but unironicallyC'est vrai!
No.1589737
>>1589504>Take this with a grain of salta truck full of salt
>according to PMC medialink that shit
No.1589754
>>1589454
>Ukraine is home to Svoboda, arguably Europe’s most influential far-right movement today. (In the photo above, Svoboda activists seize a Ministry of Agriculture building during Kiev’s Euromaidan protests in January.) Party leader Oleh Tyahnybok is on record complaining that his country is controlled by a "Muscovite-Jewish mafia," while his deputy derided the Ukrainian-born film star Mila Kunis as a "dirty Jewess." In Svoboda’s eyes, gays are perverts and black people unfit to represent the nation at Eurovision
>Svoboda began life in the mid-90s as the Social-National Party (a name deliberately redolent of the National Socialist Party, better known as Nazis), with its logo the fascist Wolfsangel. In 2004, the party gave itself an unobjectionable new name (Svoboda means "Freedom") and canned the Nazi imagery, and in the subsequent decade has seen its star swiftly rise.
>Today, Svoboda holds a larger chunk of its nation’s ministries (nearly a quarter, including the prized defense portfolio) than any other far-right party on the continent. Ukraine’s deputy prime minister represents Svoboda (the smaller, even more extreme "Right Sector" coalition fills the deputy National Security Council chair), as does the prosecutor general and the deputy chair of parliament — where the party is the fourth-largest. And Svoboda’s fresh faces are scarcely different from the old: one of its freshmen members of parliament is the founder of the "Joseph Goebbels Political Research Centre" and has hailed the Holocaust as a "bright period" in human history.https://foreignpolicy.com/2014/03/18/yes-there-are-bad-guys-in-the-ukrainian-government/
>The man facing down Putin’s aggression as secretary of the Ukrainian National Security and Defence Council is Andriy Parubiy. He oversees national security for the nation having previously served as security commandant during the anti-government protests in Kiev.
>Parubiy was the founder of the Social National Party of Ukraine, a fascist party styled on Hitler’s Nazis, with membership restricted to ethnic Ukrainians.
>The Social National Party would go on to become Svoboda, the far-right nationalist party whose leader Oleh Tyahnybok was one of the three most high profile leaders of the Euromaidan protests – negotiating directly with the Yanukovych regime.
>Overseeing the armed forces alongside Parubiy as the Deputy Secretary of National Security is Dmytro Yarosh, the leader of the Right Sector – a group of hardline nationalist streetfighters,
>The new Deputy Prime Minister Oleksandr Sych is a member of the far-right Svoboda party, which the World Jewish Congress called on the EU to consider banning last year along with Greece’s Golden Dawn.
>Svoboda now controls the ecology and agricultural ministry with Andriy Mokhnyk, the deputy head of Svoboda, running ecology and Ihor Shvaika as agriculture minister. Svoboda member Oleh Makhnitsky is now acting prosecutor general.https://www.channel4.com/news/svoboda-ministers-ukraine-new-government-far-right
>Into this fray moved a mix of ultranationalist and assorted far right paramilitary groups, all decidedly at odds with Euromaidan’s progressive, democratic tenor. The largest of these, Svoboda, possessed a well-defined political program, having earned parliamentary seats in 2012 by winning a tenth of votes cast in nationwide elections. Several existing paramilitary groups coalesced to form Right Sector, the declared goal of which was not closer ties with Europe but to “build a nationalist Ukrainian state and stage a nationalist revolution.”
>Svoboda and Right Sector possessed what the early Euromaidan protestors lacked — boots on the street that were primed to answer in-kind any exercise of violent force by the Yanukovych government. For the Euromaidan movement, it was a devil’s bargain. When an interim government formed after Yanukovych fled the country, Svoboda demanded powerful posts and control of the National Security Council. Unable to muster popular support — Right Sector’s Dmytro Yarosh managed only 0.7% in the May 2014 presidential elections, and Svoboda lost significant ground in the October 2014 parliamentary elections — both nevertheless wield outsized political power by virtue of large, well-armed paramilitaries.
>the constellation of fascist, self-proclaimed neo-Nazi, and other far right groups that surround the Ukrainian government today, especially their associated paramilitaries, is very troubling.
>Right Sector’s role as a protagonist in the rising violence and criminal activity in the country’s west—far removed from civil unrest in the eastern Donbas region—triggered border security concerns this summer in Slovakia, Poland and Hungary.
>The country’s accelerating civic degeneration is troubling. Take the month of August, for example. The militant nationalist group Right Sector attempts to destabilize the Poroshenko government by forcing a nationwide no-confidence referendum.[26] The Russia-leaning parliamentary group Opposition Bloc called for parliament to dissolve after a recent armed clash between Right Sector’s Ukrainian Volunteer Corps[27] and local police in the city of Mukachevo, only 30km from Ukraine’s western border with Hungary.[28] A Right Sector “reserve battalion” opened fire on Opposition Bloc supporters in eastern Ukraine’s Kharkiv, the country’s second largest city.
>There a growing alignment of Right Sector paramilitaries and organized crime syndicates.[56] A widely reported incident in the city of Mukachevko[57] in early July involved an armed battle between armed Right Sector militia and gunmen loyal to Mykhailo Lanyo,[58] a member of the Ukrainian parliament who is suspected of involvement in organized crime-related smuggling operations (and who reportedly fled the country afterwards). The incident—which Ukraine’s Prosecutor General classified as terrorism—was likely a dispute over control of cigarette smuggling routes to Hungary (and possibly Slovakia and Poland).
>After President Proshenko declared, “no political force should have armed cells and no political force will have one,” a Right Sector spokesperson responded:
>“The statement by Petro Poroshenko is addressed to illegal armed groups. We are not an illegal armed group. Illegal armed groups are bandits, and we are the Ukrainian Volunteer Corps, which protects the independence and territorial integrity of Ukraine. Therefore, this statement does not apply to us.”[61]
>“Until such an order is given” by its leader, Dmitry Yarosh, Right Sector members “are not going to surrender their weapons.”
>An under noticed yet defining characteristic of the Donbas conflict is that it is waged in substantial part, not by Ukrainian armed forces, but by private militias under loose to no government command. When Ukraine’s regular armed forces repeatedly proved ineffective and unprepared, into the breach stepped the so-called “volunteer battalions,” with their independent funding and training capabilities.
>Following Russia’s February 2014 Crimea intervention, the Ukrainian parliament in March authorized the re-formation (it had been disbanded in 2000) of the Natsionalʹna hvardiya Ukrayiny (“National Guard of Ukraine”) under the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The following month, acting Minister Arsen Avakov authorized the formation of batalʹyony operatyvnoho pryznachennya or “special purpose battalions” attached to National Guard units. It was intended to bring the private militias under some governmental command structure. The Defense Ministry followed in May with the formation of “territorial defense battalions,” which were mobilized the following month by presidential order.
>The Ukrainian government’s employment of special purpose and territorial defense battalions is understandable given the exigencies in the country’s east, and Russia’s annexation and occupation of Crimea. It had the unintended effect, however, of “certifying” (read: legitimizing) far right and ultra-nationalist private militias of dubious provenance.[80] Events led Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council to declare “right-wing civic movements are not perceived by Ukrainian society as a threat.” Its director, Oleksandr Turchynov, went further:
>“That’s why all patriots, particularly from the Right Sector, who are ready to defend Ukraine in arms, decided to join our Armed Forces and the National Guard.”[81]
>Anton Shekhovtsov and Andreas Umland raise “the paradox of ultranationalist parties becoming involved in a protest movement whose thrust is toward greater integration between Ukraine and the European Union.”[82]
>While it is a point of debate whether the volunteer brigades express larger political or social trends afoot in Ukraine, they have unquestionably morphed into a de facto fourth branch of Ukrainian civil society. Among the fifty-odd pro-Kyev volunteer battalions active at one time or another in the Donbas conflict, six battalions predominate.
>Azov Battalion. The Batalʹyon Azov was founded in March 2014 and takes its name from the coastal region where it is based in the city of Mariupol. It evolved out of Patriót Ukrayíny (“Patriots of Ukraine”), the paramilitary arm of the neo-Nazi Sotsial-Natsionalʹna Asambleya (“Social-National Assembly”), which was a founding organization of Praviy Sektor (see below). Its commander is a Ukrainian Parliament member, Andrei Biletsky, who also directs the Patriots of Ukraine and the Social-National Assembly. The Azov Battalion was a so-called “special purpose battalion” under the Ministry of Internal Affairs until October 2014, when it was made part of the National Guard
>Dnipro Battalion. Batalʹyon «Dnipro» was founded in April 2014 by Ukrainian oligarch Ihor Kolomoyskyi.[85] It is also known as “Dniepro-1” for the charitable organization (Fund Dnipro-1) Kolomoyskyi uses to fund the unit. The battalion commander, Yuriy Bereza, is a Ukrainian Parliament member (he sits with Prime Minister Yatsenyuk’s People’s Front) as is fellow battalion member and company commander, Volodymyr Parasyuk, who sits as an independent. It is based in Dnipropetrovsk and subordinated to the Ministry of Internal Affairs. The battalion operates as an assault and a policing unit
>Donbas Battalion. Semen Semenchenko[86] founded Batalʹyon “Donbass” in April 2014 as a territorial defense battalion. It was absorbed into the National Guard as a reserve battalion tactical group in June 2014 and fields a reported force of 400-600 combatants.[87] This number is said to include a significant number of Georgians.[88] Its commander, Taras Konstanchuk, declared in November 2014 interview, “Should a single city be surrendered, the president will fly off his chair, there will be a military coup and the soldiers will take power into their own hands.”[89]
>Right Sector. Praviy Sektor emerged in November 2013 as an umbrella formed by several far-right and ultra-nationalist political groups, including:
>Vseukrayinsʹka orhanizatsiya «Tryzub» imeni Stepana Bandery (“The Stepan Bandera All-Ukrainian Organization Trident”), usually referred to as simply Tryzub (“Trident”),[90] which at the time was led (since 2005) by Dmytro Yarosh.>Ukrayinsʹka Natsionalʹna Asambleya-Ukrayinsʹka Narodna Samooborona also known by its acronym UNA-UNSO (“Ukrainian National Assembly-Ukrainian People’s Self-Defense Bloc”). It split in May 2014 when its UNA political wing merged into Right Sector. UNA-UNSO combatants fought Russian forces in Transnistria and in the Georgian civil war in the early 1990s.>Belyy Molot (“White Hammer”) led by Vladislav Horanyn,[91] who commands the Aidar Battalion (known formally after its forced reorganization by the Defense Ministry as the 24-y batalʹyon terytorialʹnoyi oborony «Aydar» or “24th Territorial Defense Battalion ‘Aydar'”).[92] Right Sector expelled White Hammer in March 2014 for “lack of discipline” shortly after Horanyn was arrested on suspicion of killing three police officers (he was later released).>Sotsial-Natsionalʹna Asambleya (“Social-National Assembly”) and its paramilitary arm, Patriót Ukrayíny (“The Patriot of Ukraine”). Discussed above under “Azov Battalion”.>C-14 aka “Sich,”[93] led by Yevhen Karas, and closely associated with the political party Svoboda (“Freedom”) where Karas was a deputy. While C-14 tends to focus of constabulary activities in Kyev and other cities, combatants fight with the Kyev-2 battalion commanded by Bogdan Voytsekhovsky.>Right Sector’s leader, Dmytro Yarosh, was elected to the Ukrainian parliament as a Right Sector candidate in a single-member district located in south-central Ukraine’s Dnipropetrovsk Oblast.[94] A July 2015 party congress demanded the legalization of all “volunteer battalions,” consistent with legislation introduced by Yarosh.[95] It also changed the group’s name to Natsionalʹno-vyzvolʹnyy rukh ‘Pravyy sektor’ (“Right Sector National Liberation Movement”).[96]
>The People’s Front Military Council. This organization has received far too little attention relative to its significance. The Partiya «Narodnyy front» or “People’s Front” political party (sometimes translated as “Popular Front”) was formed in March 2014, and captured the largest share of the popular vote in parliamentary elections that year under the leadership of Arseniy Yatsenyuk. In September 2014, it established its own military council, the membership of which consists of senior party leaders, armed forces and National Guard senior commanders, as well as several “volunteer” battalion[99] commanders.https://www.fpri.org/article/2015/10/ukraine-the-squandered-renaissance/ No.1589767
>>1589754>The Ukrainian government’s employment of special purpose and territorial defense battalions is understandable given the exigencies in the country’s east, and Russia’s annexation and occupation of Crimea. It had the unintended effect, however, of “certifying” (read: legitimizing) far right and ultra-nationalist private militias of dubious provenance.[80] Events led Ukraine’s National Security and Defense Council to declare “right-wing civic movements are not perceived by Ukrainian society as a threat.” Its director, Oleksandr Turchynov, went further:>“That’s why all patriots, particularly from the Right Sector, who are ready to defend Ukraine in arms, decided to join our Armed Forces and the National Guard.”[81]I actually didn't know this lmao. The NSDC saying that under Parubiy isn't surprising. Turchynov kinda is though since he was the prime minister. Wow. The nazi Kiev junta thing isn't really an exaggeration and I like how one of the articles describes the protest turned volunteer army as a power center offsetting civilian rule regardless of Svoboda etc performance in parliament
No.1589773
>>1589439Something I thought of while at work
The Finnish were pretty heavily propagandized as "superior master race" by Goebbels and the Third Reich whose side of the war has been pretty widely reported in the anglosphere, and it lines up pretty well with the "hundred gorzillion ded russians" narrative they were pushing at the time.
No.1589775
>>1589770the crew got out and then also stepped on mines
No.1589777
>>1589776Missed opportunity to post Joao Bruno Putulukeso, aka Black Hitler. :^)
No.1589778
>>1589773that was because Goebbels knew that Germany was going to go to war with USSR it was official if not overt policy even at that time. In truth Finns are pretty much the least Aryan nation in Europe, but that didn't matter because Finns look the right way and the government there was stacked with people who believed the same things as the nazis.
No.1589785
>>1589778I'm aware of why and how propaganda works. It just gives all the more reason to spread the story that Finns can kill 200:1
No.1589804
>>1589803As you can see on the picture the capitalister you is the more manspreading you do
No.1589815
>>1589729Wait so if the new Churchill FDR Stalin is Xi Lula Putin, then Hitler is…
No.1589830
So can anyone explain Alexey Milchakov’s involvement with Wagner and how that doesn’t make them a Nazi PMC? Or how the various Russian fascists from Iron March were incorporated into Rusich?
No.1589835
>>1589830Do Ukraine first, libtard
No.1589853
>>1589830>Alexey Milchakovbeen following the war since the start and have never heard of this literal who
No.1589856
>>1589364>fixedAnd the current cope is a marvel to behold
>Where the tank was lost due to it not being equipped with its chobham armour.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Challenger_2So editorialisation is fine when it favours the glow
No.1589857
>>1589830What is this cope kek
No.1589859
When are the Abrams supposed to show up? I thought they were due already.
No.1589862
>>1589859>Ukrainians complete training on Abrams tanks as Kyiv makes battlefield gains>Ten of 31 promised U.S. tanks are expected to arrive in the country by mid-September.Two… weeks?
No.1589865
>>1589830I think it becomes pretty clear now that with the US taken out of the equation and the world achieving multipolarity we will get even more states funding insane rightoid groupings to achieve nebulous geopolitical aim, since the financial regulatory mechanism imposed by the Washington consensus becomes obsolete.
Of course, this also means that class mobilization and funding and organizing of leftist parties especially in the periphery becomes easier especially without the dreaded sword of Damocles that is US sanctions and CIA machinations hanging over their heads which is why leftoids love it so much, but on the flip side this applies to rightoids as well.
We already see this in Libya and Yemen where even supposedly "secular' forces like the UAE and Haftar are recruiting Salafi brigades in their war, and i suspect the same thing is going to happen in Europe as well. Both Russia and Ukraine, and soon perhaps the EU itself will arm the various roided up Nazi prison gangs to utilize them as some sort of Ustashe/Hili auxiliary force to butcher enemy civilians and wage war without risking the life of professional soldiers.
No.1589876
Good to know Russia us making progress, though.
No.1589928
Gee, and here i thought i was supposed to be thread derailer
No.1589989
>>1589970I wonder how many Cubans are fighting? Cuba does have a good track record against fascism ( although these are volunteers and not a state backed army)
>>1589985>Aren't they both socialist?Zigger moment
No.1589992
>>1589989>Zigger momentRetard moment
No.1589996
>>1589780Will I get banned for making a we wuz joke
No.1589997
>>1589985>Aren't they both socialist?I know you're probably being sarcastic, but you can never tell on the internet
No.1590002
>>1589985i wonder how many times shills are gonna post this story
No.1590013
>>1590012RIP
Also what is up with the suriyak map showing ukraine over the surovikin line?
No.1590020
Wagner was founded by a nazi
No.1590029
Wagner was founded by an AnFem
No.1590035
Wagner was never founded, it's a delusion of the mind
No.1590050
>>1589830It's a bit more complicated than that, but that being said- Nazi orgs that have ties with Wagner (which was without a doubt, had a nazi as one of its founding members) do exist, and have been fighting alongside the seperatists of the LPR and DPR.
Utkin being a supposed Nazi himself (with all the tattoos and calling the group Wagner no less should be enough to raise eyebrows) as seen here
>>1589979 is certainly enough to be highly sus of wagner- especially since their own mercenaries brand russian far right wing symbols.
HOWEVERI did a bit of extra digging and found this- there are far right wing paramilitary groups that are fighting on the side of the Russians and do have ties to Wagner.
One of these neo-nazi orgs that have ties with Wagner, and who the aformentioned Alexey Milchakov has founded is the Rusich Group- a para military unit.
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/07/15/dying-to-killhttps://www.mk.ru/politics/2014/07/04/fashistzhivoder-iz-peterburga-priekhal-voevat-za-opolchencev-lnr.htmlhttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/russian-mercenaries-in-ukraine-linked-to-far-right-extremistsAlexy and his group have mostly been fighting in the LPR alongside the Russians within the Russo Ukraine war.
From the Meduza article:
<Fighters from the group openly wear the kolovrat (a sun-shaped symbol used in place of the swastika) and other symbols associated with far-right extremist groups. For example, the valknut appears on the paramilitary group’s black banners. Among its members, Rusich counts a number of people who belonged to Russian neo-Nazi groups in the late 2000s. Its founder Alexey Milchakov is no exception.
<Several members of the far-right band Russkyi Styag are currently fighting in Ukraine as part of Rusich, according to Deutsche Welle. The band’s frontman Evgeny Dolganov has also actively supported the Kremlin’s “special military operation,” giving frontline concerts and interviewing other far-right nationalists.
<At one time, Dolganov was an active member of the National Socialist Society (NSO), a radical group co-founded by Belarusian neo-Nazi Serhii “Botsman” Korotkyh (Russian neo-Nazi Maxim “Tesak” Martsinkevich was another notorious member). After the collapse of the NSO, Korotkykh went to Ukraine, where he fought as part of the Azov volunteer battalion and later became a police official. Today, he and other former NSO leaders, for example Andrey “Ded” Dedov and Artyom “Uragan” Krasnolutsky, are fighting against Russia as members of the Ukrainian Armed Forces.
<Dedov, as it happens, used to co-own a Moscow tattoo parlor with one Gleb Erve. After the start of the February invasion, Erve became a correspondent for Russia’s state-run news agency RIA Novosti, reporting on the purported fight to “denazify Ukraine.” Observers were quick to point out that some of Erve’s own tattoos are in fact far-right symbols — such as the emblem of Benito ᴉuᴉlossnW’s Italian National Fascist Party that’s inked on the back of his head. According to the website Antifa.ru, Erve also ran a YouTube channel where he propagated far-right ideas.
>Gleb Erve’s chest tattoo of the phrase “Jedem das Seine,” the motto displayed over the main gate of the Nazi’s Buchenwald concentration camp>Gleb Erve’s head tattoo of the emblem of the Italian National Fascist Party
<Erve declined to speak to Meduza and instead pointed to statements he had posted on social media. On Telegram in May, he acknowledged that he “was ultra-right” but said that he had grown disillusioned and left the movement three years ago. He also claimed that his past experience with the far-right helped him to know “what literature to look for in Ukrainian schools” and how to “correctly” interview Ukrainian prisoners of war from the Azov Regiment.
<In another post, Erve wrote that he had come to terms with the fact that because of his tattoos “Ukrainian propaganda, with the support of domestic liberal propaganda” was making him out to be “practically Goebbels.”
>im just a concerned patriot bro. Im not a nazi im a "insert special far right wing ideology here"
<Evgeny Rasskazov, who goes by “Topaz” on social media, was born and raised in the Donbas city of Makiivka. He joined Rusich in 2014, after he saw a call for new recruits Alexey Milchakov had posted online.
<Rasskazov now runs a Telegram channel where he actively posts about the everyday life of a “denazifier” fighting against Ukraine. On April 20, he wrote a happy birthday post dedicated to Adolf Hitler (albeit without naming him). “Today is the birthday of our comrade-in-arms and friend, who became an example for many of us,” Rasskazov wrote. “And even though he has long been gone from us, his actions and words live in our hearts and inspire us to beat the Ukr-Bolshevist scum and multiply the glory of great Russia.”
<The post included a photo he had taken against the background of a Russian military vehicle adorned with the pro-war letter Z, the Tyr rune, and the number 88 (a numerical shorthand for “Heil Hitler”).
<Later, in response to criticism over the post, Rasskazov wrote that Rusich “will not change” its symbols or its views. And Russian law enforcement wouldn’t respond to the complaints against the group, he argued, “because veterans are inviolable.” (cont)
No.1590051
hey, i just heard that Challengers are now being destroyed and ukraine's great offensive is a failure. wow that sucks for them lol
No.1590052
>>1590050
<Dmitry (name changed) was involved in Russia’s right-wing radical movement in the 2000s (he now supports the “special military operation” and therefore asked Meduza not to reveal his identity). In his opinion, “a Russian nationalist can’t not be an imperialist.” “The only thing that represents power in this world is an empire. Any non-imperial nation becomes someone’s satellite. In 1991, the balance was upset. And in order to restore it, Russia has to gain its strength back,” he explained.
<Dmitry’s beliefs chime with those of the Russian nationalists who are currently fighting against Ukraine. For example, he falsely claimed that “Ukrainians do not exist as an independent nation” and the “entry of [Russian] troops into Ukraine was provoked by the West.” These arguments also echo Vladimir Putin’s own rhetoric almost word for word.
<Zaytsev’s stance is not as uncommon as one might think. Indeed, the 2014 revolution in Ukraine caused a historical split in the Russian nationalist movement. “Imperialist nationalists” — inspired by the bloodless annexation of the Crimea and pro-Russian rallies in the Donbas, Odesa, and Kherson — publicly supported Russia’s war in eastern Ukraine. As Zaytsev explained, others saw the Euromaidan as an example of a national revolution that Russian nationalists should also support — and hence joined the fight on the Ukrainian side.
<Korotkykh deemed this logic perfectly understandable: instead of improving the lives of Russians, the Russian state had “begun to throw their lives into the furnace of its war for the empire.”
<Anton Raevsky was also forced to try and reconcile this discrepancy between the radical, anti-Communist views characteristic of the far-right and Russia’s use of Soviet symbols during the war against Ukraine. “As for the red flags, Lenin monuments, and streets in honor of Bolshevik executioners, I believe that one day Russia will cleanse itself of the putrid smell of Bolshevism,” Raevsky assured Meduza. “And the red flag over the Reichstag building will remain a symbol of a Russian Victory, not of the [Communist] International.”
>C-critical support for Russian nazis and fascists against Ukranian Nazis and fascists r-right guys? >Right? No.1590054
>inb4 i get accused of derailing
No.1590055
>>1590052Are there any examples of these neo-nazi paramilitaries in the police, holding public office or in positions of power in the conventional military?
No.1590056
>>1590054>both sides bad! now we need to talk about my declaration of neutrality over and over>nazis killing each other is bad, because..?No, just attention whoring. Like all Aussies.
No.1590059
>>1590056The most communist position on this war
is neutrality. I suspect this thread is a containment zone for twitter ziggers and Haz multipolarista fans who think supporting fascists vs fascists is cool.
No.1590060
>>1590055It would seem so
<At the time, relations between Ukrainian and Russian nationalists were friendly. “You need to distinguish between political nationalism, organized nationalism, and the subculture — skinheads and so on. If you take the representatives of the subculture, they all now side with Ukraine or are in Ukraine itself,” Dmitry Demushkin, the Russian nationalist turned politician, told Meduza.
<Demushkin said that for years, Ukrainian nationalists hid, fed, and supported people who Russia had placed on federal wanted lists: “[They] traditionally hid from the Russian justice system in Western Ukraine. Dozens of Russian nationalists and skinheads fled there, Ukrainian nationalists provided them all possible support.”
<But then, according to Korotkykh, Russia “fell ill with great-power, imperial chauvinism.” Demushkin disagrees: in his opinion, it’s undeniable that Russian nationalism has been “partly imperial” since at least the early 1990s. as for Alexey Milchakov outside of pic related, "Rusich" consists of "nationalist Rodnovers, volunteers from Russia and Europe", operates as a "closed collective" and is a unit in which Russian nationalists receive combat training. The units turned out to be staffed by members of the GROM special unit, which is part of the Federal Drug Control Service- which is part of the Russian government.
Not only that,
>Milchakov engaged in combat training of teenagers in special camps in Russia. This was done in conjunction with right-wing radicals from the E.N.O.T. Corp. private military company.https://naviny.belsat.eu/ru/news/neonatsist-milchakov-kotoryj-treniroval-belorusskih-podrostkov-uehal-v-siriyu-v-chvk-vagnera/The online edition "Belarusian Partizan" calls the "raccoons" a group of Russian militants who took part in the war in Donbass from its very beginning, and that they are close friends with Milchakov. As the publication notes, since 2015, raccoon began its legalization in Russia. They received the status of a public organization and the full support of the state, regularly holding military-patriotic games-gatherings. The chief instructor of the organization, Roman Telenkevich, simultaneously headed the Union of Donbass Volunteers
https://www.newsru.com/world/25sep2017/enotcorp.html No.1590061
>>1590055Yes. Look no further than Putin and whole of Kremlin
No.1590062
I guess I'm just confused why people keep bringing up Wagner at all. The argument isn't that there are no Nazis in Russia and its not that there are no Nazis in the Russian military. We are reminded all the time that there are plenty of Nazis in any military. No one is saying that everyone in Ukraine is a Nazi either or even that the majority of people support Nazis.
Ukraine is singled out because its government was overthrown and is occupied by a Nazi junta its really not comparable.
No.1590063
>>1590056>so there are nazis fighting alongside the russian government, so what?>ur just an attention whoreNot an argument. Nazism should be opposed and I think people who "critically support" Russia" have a bit of thinking to do :^)
No.1590064
>>1590063you're a retarded troll. shut up
No.1590065
>>1590059The most communist position on this war is vulgar anti-NATOism.
The most anarchist position on this war is synthesis of pro-Putin and pro-Ukraine.
No.1590066
>>1590065Yes. I’m anarchist
No.1590069
>>1590064>post proofs of nazis in the russian military >u-ur a troll >>1590067Still working on it. Never said im not going to May surprise you but it takes a lot more effort to refute bullshit than to make it up.
That being said- using these source and cross referencing it with the others-
https://us.politsturm.com/russia-and-imperialism/https://bolshevik.org/russia/ibt_20181027_russian_imperialism.htmlnow quit derailing the thread.
No.1590071
ITT: Hazite and crypto-fash ziggers who are COPING about the facts presented here
>>1590060>>1590052>>1590050 No.1590072
>>1590062Yeah I wonder why people bring up a Nazi named group, founded by a Nazi, that for some reason a lot of communists support
No.1590073
>>1590072Now come on anon, that's a bit unfair
they only """critically""" support them. No.1590074
>>1590059>Haz>twitterOkay, /isg/-tard. Do you have anything going on upstairs besides e-celebs (which I pegged for morons within 15 minutes of them being introduced) and social media posting?
No.1590075
>>1590050Meduza is fascist to be fair
No.1590076
>>1590063How do you oppose Nazism harder than cheering them killing each other?
No.1590077
>>1590060A far right group is related to a group trained with a group that has some members that have jobs in the government? and thats the same as the chief of police, multiple battalion commanders in the army, and multiple cabinet members ministers and deputies being out and open nazis?
>>1590073>they only """critically""" support them.I dont think anyone here supports Rusich, critically or otherwise.
No.1590078
Guys I’m in Moscow and a bit lost, where is the Vlasov memorial?
No.1590079
>>1590074Yeah I’m wondering if anyone here wants me to suck their toes?
>>1590073CRITICAL CONDITION UNCONDITIONAL SUPPORT FOR RUSSIAN FASCISTS VS UKRAINIAN FASCISTS ТОТАЛЬНАЯ УКРАИНСКАЯ СМЕРТЬ
No.1590080
>>1590078Даже наши националисты мало что знают о Власове,, Вы все равно не в Москве но если есть то скажите где
No.1590081
>>1589989>I wonder how many Cubans are fighting? Cuba does have a good track record against fascism ( although these are volunteers and not a state backed army)I don't think Cuba likes mercenaries very much.
>>1590050>It's a bit more complicated than that, but that being said- Nazi orgs that have ties with Wagner (which was without a doubt, had a nazi as one of its founding members) do exist, and have been fighting alongside the seperatists of the LPR and DPR. There's an interesting memoir (in its own right) by one of these Russian separatist fighters from back during when the war started nearly a decade ago. A Russian expat who was running a casino in Sierra Leone and involved in some shady mineral extraction business and then moved there to fight. His motivations are rather odd in that way because he literally describes himself as a hardcore racist (and seems like a libertarian)… but he also had a black gf… and he also goes by the nickname "Afrikaner." But he doesn't like Nazis, yet he sees the war in essentially ethnic terms, he's ethnic Russian. And he'd only go to war with Russia in the hypothetical situation that there was a white race revolution in Europe that genocided the immigrants and Russia invaded to fight Nazism.
There are also anecdotes of sitting around with other fighters who had posted on far-right forums and talking about phrenology and other subjects.
He also says he doesn't like Muslims, to put it mildly, but that white people need their own version of it, because at the least the Islamists are willing to be rebels and hold up a severed guy's head. And if a bright future is out of the question, well… preparing yourself for a dark one is the next best option.
Also a bit of a libertarian too, and he expresses frustration with Putin (for not outright invading Ukraine at the time) and "leftists" in the LPR/DPR governments with these dumbass ideas like "social fairness" and "public control over business." It'd be much better, his deep belief he says, is that "the less the government interferes in the work of business, the better it is for everyone … I'm not even talking about the people's private lives; everyone who wants to interfere with them should be hanged on lampposts. Okay, sorry, I got distracted."
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1203532165528444929.html>>1590062>Ukraine is singled out because its government was overthrown and is occupied by a Nazi junta its really not comparable.I don't think it's that… but Ukraine seems more likely Weimar Germany to me, so you have a republic but there are also these fascist and ultranationalist paramilitary squads that fly a dozen different flags with deep connections to the military and security services which puts a boot down on the leftists, but then the country gets invaded.
No.1590082
>>1590077I posted evidence of systemic FSB support for these groups and so far the silence from Z is overwhelming. All I hear is Zeethe. A Nazi is a Nazi and you nevertheless support Nazis
No.1590083
>>1590075https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-outlaws-meduza-news-site-latest-media-crackdown-2023-01-26/>The founder of Russia's Wagner private military group, Yevgeny Prigozhin, called for Meduza to be placed on the list last JulyDo you have any sources on Medusa being nazis?
At worse they get pro-NATO shills like Slajov Zizek on
https://meduza.io/en/feature/2023/02/03/what-i-don-t-want-is-western-triumphalism>>1590077Are you seriously downplaying the fact that they're serving in the government, aiding the military, all the while ignoriding a lot of the far right wing presence in Russia? Because I sincerely hope you're not.
the Russian government trains and collaborates with nazi groups. Take the "lesser evil" bullshit elsewhere.
The whole point of the post was: this one
>>1589830So the fact that you have Nazi PMCs should be enough to think Russia has a far right wing problem- especially since they're trained/ serve as extensions of them.
No.1590085
>>1590083Russia used to jail those types (Tesak and Slavros come to mind) alongside nazbols, but now use them in war and allow their ideologies to proliferate. This is the same Russia that gives full backing to their Orthodox Church in its endeavors of resurrecting the monarchy.
But no only Ukraine bad because of a few skinheads
No.1590086
>>1589990Here's the Cuban statement:
>Cuba counters human trafficking operations aimed for military recruitment purposes.
>The Ministry of the Interior has detected and it is working to neutralize and dismantle a human trafficking network that operates from Russia in order to incorporate Cuban citizens living there and even some living in Cuba, into the military forces that participate in military operations in Ukraine. Attempts of this nature have been neutralized and criminal proceedings have been initiated against those involved in these activities.
>Cuba’s enemies are promoting distorted information that seeks to tarnish the country’s image and present it as an accomplice to these actactions that we firmly reject.
>Cuba has a firm and clear historical position against mercenarism, and it plays an active role in the United Nations in rejection of the aforementioned practice, being the author of several of the initiatives approved in that forum.
>Cuba is not part of the war in Ukraine. It is acting and it will firmly act against those who within the national territory participate in any form of human trafficking for mercenarism or recruitment purposes so that Cuban citizens may raise weapons against any country.
>Havana, September 4th, 2023
>(Cubaminrex)https://cubaminrex.cu/en/statement-ministry-foreign-affairsI'd add that the historic position of Cuba is that mercenarism – soldiers of fortune – have their source in capitalism and imperialism, a way for imperialist and capitalist regimes to carry out neocolonialism in an indirect way. They had experiences fighting mercenaries too in the Bay of Pigs, and also in Africa. Cuban regulars and volunteers did go to Angola for example to fight, but that was seen as fighting on the same side – as equals – with a socialist government against an imperialist plot to dominate them and mercenaries were one of the tools to that end.
There are different motivations involved. The anti-communist mercenary is really fighting for their own private gain, with their anti-communism being an ideological mystification for the underlying motive. That is different from the revolutionary internationalist who fights for selfless reasons on the side of oppressed peoples struggling for liberation.
No.1590087
>>1590081Thanks for the sources. But this does raise a question- seeing as we do have far right wing orgs fighting eachother- what sort of a phenomenon can we call this?
It would be interesting to have a convo about how and why these far right wing groups are in both collaboration and in open conflict with eachother.
>>1590085Anon, the Ukraine does employ nazis such as the Azov battalion who have committed arguably some of the worst war crimes of this conflict- going back to 2014.
The whole "nazis in ukraine" is something that pro NATO supporters don't seem to come to terms with. It's not "just a few skin heads".
And even if they weren't outright "nazis"- they are far right wing.
No.1590088
>>1590082Why should we clarify that we are anti-NATO first for a thousandth time, if it doesn't seem to get through your thick skull?
I'm just enjoying my full courses of
history, and you just seem intend to ruin the atmosphere. You can't actually stop the server, or me.
No.1590094
>>1590087>It would be interesting to have a convo about how and why these far right wing groups are in both collaboration and in open conflict with eachother. So I actually met a neo-Nazi skinhead organizer once (before I ever posted here… it's a weird story) who had spent time in Russia, had interacted with some prominent ones (Dugin specifically, and I know this for a fact), and he told me that there was a lot more collaboration going on between the Russian and Ukrainian far-right scenes before the war, so basically what happened was a kind of civil war within the scene and people filtered into their respective sides.
I don't think that means the war itself can be boiled down to a war between different groups of fascists, although different groups of fascists have been shooting at each other for years, but that these groups get weaponized and used. They're tools basically and the respective security services shape them in ways that are compatible, because they're willing to torture and kill people. The Russian government was never really against the presence of neo-Nazis in Ukraine in particular, the decisive question is which direction their guns are aimed at.
No.1590095
>>1590089>Its not really about nazis who fight for Ukraine but how Ukraine has Nazis in official government office and multiple Nazi political parties that are widely accepted and operate in public.>Russia doesn't have Nazi secret police writing their laws and running Nazi death squads against their own citizens and didn't rehabilitate Nazi collaborators and welcome them into the government.Yeah, they only just rehabilitate the white army and the legacy of tsar nicholas the II and the black hundreds. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Not like tsar nicholas the II was a raving anti-semite, imperialist and anti-communist.
No it just has nazi orgs who they train and have fight alongside them and serve under the Wagner group. That
totally makes it different.
Your post is again just focusing on the Ukraine, not Russia. We know that Ukraine is filled with Nazis- why can't you except that there are nazis and far right wing goons who also side with these nazi groups. As seen here.
>>1590052>>1590060https://meduza.io/en/feature/2019/05/17/they-told-me-to-get-a-jobAgain, what does this whole argument have to do with nazis in the ukraine- which we know exist, and you playing these bullshit "whataboutism" games when someone calls out that there are far right wing politicians (including Putin and his military officers) who collude and collaborate with these militias.
>nooo they're just shilling for anti-bolshevism and not regurgitating Russian irridentism, they're just pro tsarist, black hundred larpers! Totally different! As if this should give us ease of mind.
How quaint, the Russian federation isn't filled with Nazis! It's only filled with Russian nationalists who are willing to collaborate with them, create reactionary policies and fund far right wing orgs that are explicitly anti-communist and seek to rehabilitate the Tsar and the black hundreds. Guess we should pack it in folks, nothing to see here!
No.1590098
>>1590090>>1590091This is also very true. But you know, I think the people who run Russia nowadays weren't happy with the way the Cold War ended, but they drew different conclusions. They decided: "you know what, we were idiots to think that mankind can be fundamentally improved. We wasted a lot of time and got nowhere. We tried to build a fair, politically correct and right-thinking society, but human nature can't be changed from what it is, and people are at their core corruptible and bribable, so we should just act like the brutal Ayn Rand-style Western capitalists we learned about growing up and and bribe whoever we need to bribe, and beat them at their own game."
Which is way more flexible than the Soviet communists ever were. They wouldn't imagine trying to bribe rich people in Western countries to be on their side, that would just be anti-communist, and besides they didn't have the money back then anyways. No, we'll form our own mercenary companies, our own "compatible" far right groups, whatever. The far right groups in the West? If they can be used, then use them. We have no illusions that they're a potential government in waiting like how the communists saw communists in other countries. They're just people who can be bribed, and the left-wingers who support us, well they're just idiots who will work for us for free.
No.1590100
>>1590095>Your post is again just focusing on the Ukraine, not Russia.Because the Russian government is not occupied Nazis. They are not the same.
No.1590101
>>1590095Maybe you are having trouble understanding because that might give legitimacy to Putin's claim of denazification. Maybe thats actually a better avenue for you to figure things out if you are more concerned with the far-right than imperialism.
No.1590102
>>1590090>>1590091TIL about Dmitry Utkin, the Nazi-tattooed commander who gave Wagner its name.
I've always considered myself Left Wing. All my life, through middle and high school and now in uni, I've been various grades of communist, anarchist, leftist, socialist, syndicalist, you name it. And I was always for Left Unity, Solidarity, the Workers United Front, AntiFa.
I have to say, I didn't really get when the other Redditors' were always complaining about Tankies. Red fash. Authoritarians. Marxists. I was the first to tell them off, that they were splitting the movement and playing right into the Republicans and MAGAs hands. But reading thru this thread did it for me, it's really opened my mind to how bad you lot are and now I'm really questioning everything, so thanks /leftypol/. Thanks for showing me that maybe, I was just naive and that maybe just maybe, they had a point. You might have just turned a good leftist away.
No.1590104
>>1590103*while espousing far right wing rhetoric and forming far right wing policies.
No.1590107
>>1590106>far right wing policy>economic termYou know
exactly what AnFem narcissist means, and don't pretend you don't.
No.1590108
>>1590100>>1590103The Russian government trained and armed left or right wing volunteer bataillons, granted them veteran status and compensation for injuries.
But then continued to break contracts and threw them under the bus, to the point where many of them gave up.
Rusich ceased fighting in Ukraine in August because the Russian government refused to help their leader with legal trouble in Finland.
Most of the actions for or against the ends of the political spectrum in Russia are not ideologically driven, but by convenience and necessity.
That's why everything is so fucked.
No.1590109
Just wait till that one having an asthma attack over Wagner finds out what has actually been happening in the Ukraine over the last decade
No.1590110
<there are no Nazis in Russia
>yes there are here is the documented proof of Utkin, Milchakov, the black hundreds, Dugin and monarchist sympathizers within the Orthodox Church backed by the Kremlin
<t-this isn’t proof look at Ukraine with azov a-and sloboda!
>we know Ukraine has Nazis but you are denying that there are Nazis in Russia
<t-there aren’t any bro I swear to god bro I know Putin is an anticommunist who says he hates the events of 1917 bro but trust me he’s not a Nazi bro
No.1590111
>>1588967>I KochinskiYeah not reading that, sorry.
No.1590112
>>1590107Russia can be doing far right wing policies when they go back to the 90s and reprivitize national industry and sell it to foreign investors. Progressive cultural policies come from economic independence not the other way around.
The most progressive thing would be ending sanctions so that it doesn't take Russia 50 more years to get gay rights like Cuba.
No.1590114
>>1590095>Yeah, they only just rehabilitate the white army and the legacy of tsar nicholas the II and the black hundreds. TOTALLY DIFFERENT. Not like tsar nicholas the II was a raving anti-semite, imperialist and anti-communist.You're generally right, but overthinking this. They're not rehabilitate the white army to favor monarchism in Russia, they do this to appease monarchist retards because it's more convenient if they're content and placid. If they get cocky, they get whacked.
Russia is where ideologies come to die. Pic related.
No.1590121
>>1590113>bunch of literally whomstdveswhoa
No.1590122
>go to Russian Imperial Movement's website
>it's been blocked since 2017 for extremism
>if you'll use a VPN you'll see a shitty blogspot-esque website full of screeds about how the neosoviet Putin is ruining Russia with immigration
>no one in Russia knows who they are, literally no info on them from before the US designated them as a terrorist org
This feels like a psyop
No.1590125
>post deleted
why
No.1590126
>>1590125nevermind I just couldn't find it
No.1590131
<people denying the fact that RIM, Milchakov, Utkin and the rest are/were nazis
>“i-it’s not real bro i stg!”
No.1590136
>It appears that Australia was the first country to have a street named for the Ukrainian fascist leader Stepan Bandera, beating Ukraine to the punch by decades.
>By the 1970s in Penrith, a small city less than an hour’s drive west of Sydney, George Borec, a businessman and land developer from western Ukraine, got the Penrith City Council’s approval to name at least three streets: Bandera Road, Mazepa Avenue, and Lemko Place. (Mazepa Avenue was 1968, so the others were probably around that time. A 1973 article in the Sydney Morning Herald referenced a Bandera Road in Penrith.)
>Borec was a veteran of the Ukrainian Insurgent Army (UPA) and a high-level member of Bandera’s clandestine Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) in Australia. Borec became a wealthy man in Penrith, and the city council named another street after him—Borec Road, intersecting with Lemko Place as a nod to his origins.
>In 1986, Stepan Bandera’s successor Yaroslav Stetsko died, Ukrainian Nazi death camp guard John Demjanjuk’s high-profile trial began in Jerusalem, and Oxford University Press published The Harvest of Sorrow, Robert Conquest’s book on the 1932-33 famine in Soviet Ukraine. Also that year, the Australian association of UPA veterans published a 110 page screed against “Jewish Bolshevism” and “Ukrainophobia” titled Why is One Holocaust Worth More Than Others? It made repeated references to “the Jewish holocaust,” apparently refusing to capitalize the “H.”
>Part B (“They Dare to Speak Out”) is written by John Bennett, then a major Holocaust denier in Australia. “Holocaust propaganda is so effective in brainwashing people,” Bennett bemoaned in the pages of Borec’s book, “that revisionist historians who claim there was no plan to exterminate Jews, there were no mass gassings and that fewer than 1 million Jews died of all causes during WWII are persecuted, and their books banned by trade boycott.”
>Jonas Petras Kedys, a Lithuanian nationalist and editor of the Sydney-based News Digest-International, wrote Part C of the appendix. According to one historian, Kedys’ quarterly journal, published by “a group of right-wing Baltic migrants,” was a “significant source of Australian anti-semitism.” They were apparently associated with the Australian branch of the Anti-Bolshevik Bloc of Nations (ABN), chaired for life by OUN-B leader Yaroslav Stetsko.
>The ABN has been aptly described as the “largest and most important umbrella for former Nazi collaborators in the world.” The News Digest-International boasted of its alleged “contacts with the underground publications behind the Iron Curtain,” and J.P. Kedys was a member of ABN-Australia’s Central Committee, or “Central Delegacy.”
>In early 2020, the Australian and New South Wales leadership bodies of the OUN-B signed a statement distributed to members of the Sydney branch of the OUN-B affiliated Ukrainian Youth Association (CYM) announcing the death of Mencinsky, “one of the longest standing members of CYM Sydney.”
>Yuri Mencinsky told the OUN-B’s Kyiv-based Ukrainian Information Service, “I am currently an adviser to the OUN Field Leader [of Australia] on foreign affairs. I participate in a discussion group of prominent figures from the United States, Canada, Ukraine and Australia, where we analyze the policy of modern Ukraine…” In 2006, Mencinsky’s son became the treasurer of CYM-Australia
>In 2009, Stefan Romaniw became the international leader of the OUN-B, which he had led in Australia since 1989, three years after the publication of Why is One Holocaust Worth More Than Others? Speaking to the audience, Romaniw outlined the AFUO’s plans to distribute the film in Ukraine, including on TV and in schools, and to lobby the Ukrainian government to support this. The Australian OUN-B leader later described the nationalist propaganda movie as “grass roots level rebuilding Ukraine.” Borec would be proud to know how far Ukraine’s “Banderization” has come in the 15 years since he died.
>In early 2011, approaching five years after the death of George Borec and on the eve of his 89th birthday, friends and family held a memorial in his honor. Jaroslav Duma spoke on behalf of the OUN-B leadership in Australia. In 2017, Duma was appointed the Honorary Consul of Ukraine in Sydney.
>In the meantime, the Australian branch of the Ukrainian Youth Association (CYM) didn’t allow Mr. Borec to be forgotten, who financed the construction of its original youth center in Lidcombe. Sydney-area Ukrainian nationalists affiliated with the OUN-B honored him during a 2013 event dedicated to the UPA.
>The UPA veterans of Australia published Borec’s extremely antisemitic book in the months after Yaroslav Stetsko died. At his funeral in Munich, up and coming OUN-B leader Stefan Romaniw of Melbourne, Australia spoke on behalf of Ukrainian nationalist youth from around the world.https://banderalobby.substack.com/p/the-secret-of-bandera-road No.1590140
>>1590138Like he did Czar Nicholas II against Central Powers? I doubt it.
No.1590142
>>1590140Like how he supported Kemalist Turkey against Entente proxy Armenia or cheered on Japan's victory against Russia as a potential revolutionary catalyst for example
No.1590146
>>1589438Isn't that the video he posted
No.1590148
>>1590136You think that's bad?
The Australian government went out of its way to also host Croatian fascists as well.
>>1590114>They're not rehabilitate the white army to favor monarchism in Russia, they do this to appease monarchist retards because it's more convenient if they're content and placid. If they get cocky, they get whacked.Russia is where ideologies come to die. Pic related.
See
>>1590052 No.1590150
>>1589444Half of those were with a submachine gun
No.1590163
>>1590155
Trotsky wouldn't be a modern Trotskyist.
No.1590166
>>1590113reactionaries, not nazis.
No.1590174
>>1590163Trotsky would be Dixiebol Gang
No.1590187
>>1589990I posted the Cuban statement as well, but I can't read Spanish and neither can most people in this thread.
No.1590197
>>1590192A Challenger breaking down during a road march is about the most stereotypical Challenger thing.
No.1590198
So, the burgers are sending depleted uranium rounds to the Ukraine now.
No.1590199
>>1590198That's older news than the cluster munitions.
No.1590201
>>1590199 (me)
Oh nm. The US let the UK do it months ago. Now it's cutting out the middleman.
No.1590223
>>1590098idiot. those people dont think about any of things you wrote, they function the same way burger oligarchs do, current russian govt is partially a result if smuglers, failsons and lumpens getting political power, they are not communist, and they sure as hell dont think the way you describe.
No.1590224
>>1590192this is the person who shapes the ideology of noncredibledefense posters opinion on tech and strategy.
No.1590225
>>1590192>Haha stupid Russian orcs didn't destroy this tank, it just stopped working on its ownIs this supposed to make us respect the Challenger more?
No.1590227
>>1590226Isn't atomwaffen pro-ukraine anyway? I know they have extensive connections with Azov
No.1590231
I see we are still coping there's no parallel to west Ukraine's volunteer army on the Russian side. We will be waiting a long time for evidence of the crisis of the Russian state that pushed the far right into its vanguard. Hopefully Wagner is established as political by then.
Ukraine became vulnerable to a counter revolution that just never happened in Russia. This is being proven by omission when you're stuck equating Azov and Rusich. The comparisons of Ukraine and Russia reveal that there is no fascist mass consciousness and state endorsement of it in Russia. The reason being, halting decommunization and Eurasian integration aren't great nazi issues. European nationalism like in Ukraine is. Ukraine's ethnic/linguistic divisions acted as proxy for a battle between Europe and Eurasia which, as the state collapsed between them, the far right blew up as it led this reactionary popular struggle and the state was forced to cede power to it.
This ties back into a bigger question of Russia defending itself from a degenerating post cold war Europe. Not whether both sides are the same kek
No.1590232
>>1590227nazies are pro whatever the fuck they felt like. reactionaries are retards and cant even bother to operate within their own logic and standards, thats why honorary aryans were a thing.
No.1590236
>>1590198I love how you say "the burgers" as if you aren't one and then follow it up by saying "the Ukraine." I can't tell if it's accidentally outing yourself or just good bait.
No.1590238
>>1590226What is their political status , compared to say, Ukraine? Other than existing, have they gotten up to anything relevant lately?
Ukraine isn't "Nazi" because of patches and flags and past screeds of butthurt people. But because of how those groups and ideas have come to be represented in governance and the armed forces and provided a national identity loosely based on the useful parts for their sponsors, as in, less race science and more Russophobia, nationalism and anticommunism revolving more around the western revision of history than their own kooky myths of supremacy.
No.1590239
>>1590236"The Ukraine" is the correct way to say it
No.1590240
>>1590239Under what criteria is it "correct"?
It's not the politically correct way of saying it, nor the most common way or saying it in English regardless of political correctness.
Of course other languages besides English have "the Ukraine" as the common way of referring to the country, eg Germany.
If it's based on pissing people off or being subversive then sure. Just clarifying.
No.1590242
>>1590110>documented proof of Utkin<a single pic with no source even the west doesnt pretend it is sure, 0 serious info on the guy>Dugin<random retard "eurasianist" is a nazi now>Orthodox Church <apparently all orthodox are nazi now>black hundreds<literally repressed by the state, source is fucking maidanpress in 2014
>backed by the Kremlin<no proof, 0 real power, some are actually on nato side
>ukrainians nazis>have literally all important state positions, the money, the state propaganda sucking their dick and rehabilitating all the nazi era genocidal war criminals, and the weaponsnato libs are still stuck on early war glowies talking point debunked 3 times every thread
No.1590248
>>1590232Nazis aren't pro putin. The Other Russia revealed that, and Putin's return was his politically defining moment
I'm amazed anyone thinks nazis support the Russian federation without state collapse creating a chance for its balkanization or reformation into an empire
There's no excuse for this mistake since the Ukraine war mainstreamed views of the Russian state frozen in transition as a mix representing a racial other, which was already being pushed by white nationalists as globohomo but even worse because Russia is a historical intersection and has a legacy of communism that morally withered its people.
>>1590236You're right, he should've said Banderastan.
No.1590253
>>1590248>You're right, he should've said Banderastan.If he did he could unironically keep pretending to not be American
No.1590256
>>1590248>I'm amazed anyone thinks nazis support the Russian federationNobody believes that idiot.
No.1590258
>>1590231This is off topic but Wagner also ties back to a smaller question of Russian state oligarchs and their puppets being absolute retards and falling for Western provocations while underestimating the task at hand. There would be no need for PMCs on a large scale if the regular armed forces were prepared for a large scale conflict. Decades of liberal policy have hollowed out the Russian armed forces on almost every level. The post-2008 reforms only showed results on paper, and now the Russians are forced to have reforms while losing units on the battlefield while Syria wasn't comparable at all and only served as a vehicle for Russian air force propaganda when the biggest lesson should've been from drones. The result of this kind of hyper-centrism that the Russian state practices is that it is all about optics and image management over everything else, just like their counterparts in Washington.
The only reason Russia is still in the fight is because ordinary mobilized Russians, taken from their workplaces and homes, haven't given up and have taken up the war as a matter of national survival, and have come through just as they did in 1812 or 1941. The Russian soldier is fighting in spite of their ruling class, and when this war is over it shouldn't be forgotten that it was regular Russians who snatched victory from the jaws of defeat, being forced into a ridiculous position by the incompetence of the oligarchs.
No.1590259
>>1590248Nazis are split on this war as is everyone else. Post-Soviet conflicts can't easily be categorized ideologically when the main drivers at the lower levels are nationalism and irredentism, even if the higher levels are more about imperialism. Same issue as it's been since Yugoslavia.
No.1590264
>>1590259Honestly it's fucking baffling to me. /pol/ and /leftypol/ are night and day, and yet we both ended up on the correct side of the conflict while places like /k/ and reddit and pro-Ukraine.
No.1590278
>>1590272inb4 Gunther Failinger calls for balkanizing the USA
No.1590284
>>1590258You're right, but I'm not sure Wagner is the example you're looking for. The Russian state was lagging behind Donbass and other advanced elements in 2014 that took the fight against a West Ukrainian coup government consolidating power. It was old veteran volunteers and local autonomy movements in Donbass which forced its hand, and Wagner was there for that
>>1590259>Nazis are split on this war as is everyone else. True, but if we are still tying theories of fascism to capitalism then clearly they ultimately fall on one side. One side doesn't even represent the bourgeois nation state model and it's distant to the issues of Islam and immigration that drove the rise of nationalism, which was unique to advanced states. Instead, Russia better represents the growing semi periphery disinterest in liberalism because decline emptied out the promises of development in exchange for collaboration and left behind the methods of global dictatorship, which are now defined by halting foreign decline.
>Post-Soviet conflicts can't easily be categorized Yes, but this changed over time. Ukraine alone shows that. These frozen conflicts now hint at a wider global battle against imperialism.
>ideologically when the main drivers at the lower levels are nationalism and irredentism, even if the higher levels are more about imperialism. Same issue as it's been since Yugoslavia.I don't think this resembles Yugoslavia because the great nation isn't conserving a union. It instead has internal stability concerns. This is ultimately a division between European expansion and Eurasian integration. Russia wants the former USSR to be a neutral borderland between Europe and Asia so it can bounce between the two as it picks up where CIS integration left off. It's Europe which, due to its crisis, is obsessed with digging up nations below the dirt of history.
This is why the origin of the crisis is in the EU telling the Yanukovych government that ties to the EU and the customs union are incompatible. Russia has no interest in ruling other nations, it seeks to pick up where 1994 left off as Europe expands and China rises, finding a place between both as non-Russian nations do the same.
The problem is Ukraine wasn't allowed to do this and instead its internal contradictions were deliberately accelerated to reach a conclusion which can be used to stabilize Europe after 2008 threw post cold war expansion into crisis.
No.1590285
>>1590240It has always been the Ukraine.
It has always been White Russia.
No.1590294
Been working in a factory with 10 hour shifts, too tired to follow the newz. What did I miss?
No.1590302
>>1590232>nazis are logically inconsistent!We have bothsiders, THD ziggers and people supporting NATO itt
No.1590307
>>1590278Neocons finally go full circle and return to Trotsky when start advocating civil war in the US.
No.1590312
>>1590294Not much honestly, a Challenger got smoked but otherwise it's the same old grind
No.1590317
>>1590192>my sources in Ukraynekids legit larping as MI5 agents online these days
No.1590318
>>1590198>irradiate your own countryTHE ORCS MADE ME DO IT
No.1590324
>>1590192reminds me of the 4/pol/ cope about the news that Russia has supersonic missiles capable of delivering nukes:
>B-b-but we have lasers in space that can hit those and disintegrate them on a atomic level No.1590331
>>1590328Maybes he is? Maybes he isn't?
Ultimately its 110% not really relevant to anything but lib 'whataboutism' from building a false equivalent with Ukraine.
No.1590353
>>1590328The oldest source for that claim I’ve ever been able to find comes from a Voice of America broadcast.
No.1590363
>>1590362Interesting, thanks. I saw some Rojava people on
reddit applauding them for striking down the revolt which is kinda refreshing to see in a weird way because they tend to be "anti-authoritarian" about everything. No, when your enemies revolt you put them down. I wonder to which extent the ethnic angle (Kurds occupying and oppressing arabs) is accurate. Sounds like it could be a bit of column A and a bit of column B.
Also are you Based News Anon?
No.1590373
>>1590335Also if you want to get into atrocity porn as an argument by itself, then let's see what the other side has to say.
Mind that, even if they are framing Ukraine, the country is *constantly* under missile fire, some longer range than others. And plenty of interceptions end up falling to the ground, or as the Russian side is so fond of reminding, in interceptors misses which may fall to the ground. This town may have had legitimate targets and was close to the front line.
I blame Ukraine's government more generally for knowingly being a NATO sacrifical puppet and accepting the agenda of war against Russia, from which this conflict comes. Not potential air defense misfires.
(machine translated)
https://t.me/rybar/51583<Our investigation into the explosion in Konstantinovka .
>Judging by the generously published footage from the Ukrainian side, the arrival through the market occurred in the area of the jewelry store "Zolotiy Vik" (Golden Age, marked in blue ). Next to it is now a Smart mobile accessories store ( marked in yellow ). Also important for georeferencing the area is the pawnshop "Capital" , located at the corner of the T-shaped intersection, opposite the "Golden Age" ( marked in red ).
>As you can see in the video, a second before arrival, local residents look into the sky in the direction of Druzhkovka controlled by the Armed Forces of Ukraine ( marked in green ), from where the object flies ( marked in orange ), after which an air explosion occurs near the Golden Age , which is not typical for a conventional rocket, projectile or air bomb, but characteristic of an anti-aircraft or anti-radar missile .
>Thus, the rocket flew from UAF-controlled Druzhkovka along Tsiolkovsky Street in Konstantinovka and exploded above the ground near the Golden Age jewelry store.
>In the local chats of the residents of Druzhkovka and Kramatorsk, there were also reports of the presence of aircraft in the air, which obviously cannot be Russian , since the distance to the front line is more than 30 km . In addition, the aircraft of the Armed Forces of Ukraine have already carried out unsuccessful launches of AGM-88 HARM missiles at Konstantinovka. (https://t.me/milinfolive/90677)
>Forwarded from (https://t.me/s/milinfolive)At least 16 die in Russian rocket attack on market in eastern Ukraine<Volodymyr Zelenskyy says death toll could rise after strike in Kostyantynivka as US pledges ‘unwavering’ support for Kyivhttps://archive.ph/20230906154008/https://www.ft.com/content/6a9e210b-d3d4-4020-b9a4-a73cf1abc0c5>[…] Kostyantynivka is 30km west of Bakhmut, a Russian-occupied city that has mostly been destroyed by more than a year of intense fighting. Kostyantynivka’s proximity to the frontline and a rail and road junction has made it an important logistical hub for Ukrainian forces as well as medical personnel and volunteers. No.1590375
>>1590373 (me)
Oh that last map came out wrong, here it is
No.1590401
Why can't image boards have an edit button
>>1590335
>Except that we've documented how the far right in Russia is in fact backed from the top
No you didn't, nobody showed a structural or systematic collaboration of the state and far right. There's no historical grounding for what you are arguing because there's no evidence capitalism in Russia progressed towards fascism. There's no historical process in Russian capitalism for Marxists to analyze here. Why? Because Russia successfully achieved a Bonapartist synthesis and froze while Ukraine failed to reconcile its divisions and went on to implode as a bourgeois state. The result is the closest a modern state has been to fascism after WW2, which is a historical process that Donbass and Crimea must be defended from. We can now speak of a semi fascist stage of Ukrainian history, we can do no such thing in Russia. I'm actually not sure what historical process Europe and Ukraine is defending against other than Russia freezing one either in itself or Ukraine.
There is only one reason Russia is called fascist, because it is in conflict with a more liberal Europe. This betrays this isn't really about historical development in Russia at all. Yet, it's being used to obscure such a thing in Ukraine by centering the West's.
Related to this, the far right in Europe is not the far right in eastern Europe. In the advanced states which banished left and right as part of the 20th century progressing towards liberal hegemony, the far right is lucky to take the form of the void left by national conservatives much like the left is lucky to do so with social democrats. What liberals and conservatives call far left or far right, and this is how they conflate each other with them, is more accurately called a returning left and right. Russia has a history of exploiting this to divide its masters as elections got rocky. Whereas liberals have an interest in a 'reborn' Ukrainian ultranation in a process that goes well beyond the ballot box, Russia wants divided elections that make it difficult for the imperialists to work together. The distinction meaning, while liberals embrace the liberal-nationalist decommunization alliance, Russia does not want to unite with the left or the right. It wants them fighting because it cannibalizes the center that represents the metropolitan core it is at war with. Frankly it was proven right to do so as the core increasingly conflicts with the semi periphery as part of an evolution of post 9/11 global war.
I have no idea why Z gang would need to reflect on anything because it turned out Russia's reaction to globalization was indeed related to how it was targeted by imperialism, unlike any other European country. The big lie of Russia 'just' reacting to rising tides of liberalism like this is the 19th century has been exposed as a lie. There was no European nationalist conspiracy against democracy and as a result the US was caught with its pants down when Russia revealed it had found its allies in the global periphery, which let it survive unprecedented strategic pressure of the collective advanced countries in a truly global era. Unless you want to come up with a theory of fascism disconnected from capitalism and instead operating in reaction to advanced states rather than representing their conclusion, you were wrong.
No.1590409
>>1590390
>Russia successfully achieved a Bonapartist synthesis and froze
What does this even mean? Nothing in Russia is frozen. When you talk like that you essentially do the liberal thing and confuse the lack of a change in ruling party or the deadness of electoral politics for stability. The discussion here is bizarre because it acts like some state will survive the war when the proper analysis is pretty obvious. Neither Russia nor Ukraine nor Europe will find safe harbor in Crimea. The world is in freefall.
No.1590424
>>1590409>The world is in freefall.Idk I'm pretty comfy
No.1590427
>>1590409>The world is in freefall.that which falls shall be pushed
No.1590428
>>1590409>What does this even mean?The bourgeois state didn't fail and cause a crisis of class rule holding the nation together, opening it up to 'other' forms of national unity than growing as a state. Russia found a model to stabilize and develop with, Ukraine did not. The latter then intersected with decay of imperialism while Russia linked up to emergent nations. It's pretty cut and dry to me, the proof of the difference in what capitalism progressed towards in Ukraine vs Russia is nobody saw revolutionary conditions in Russia, but they did in Ukraine and fascism depends on failed revolutions and bourgeois states. It's a bandit counter gang ideology, which the Ukrainian volunteer army represents. The Russian state and Donbass militia does not, from their perspective if the bourgeois state or whatever revolution Euromaidan was supposed to be are failing they just don't want to be part of Europe's idea of progression. That's not reactionary.
If it sounded liberal then I didn't communicate my point to you well
No.1590430
>>1590409>Nothing in Russia is frozenu sure about that
No.1590432
>>1590428Russia tried its hardest not to easternize. You can tell because of the fact that the power of siberia 2.0 pipeline hasnt even been built yet to link up russia's western oil pipelines with its siberian pipeline network. They wanted to be a european country. They didnt focus on building infrastructure in their east until they had to. Ukraine never had the option to easternize, only to tie its future to russia's future, and it too chose to europeanize. But both have failed to do so.
No.1590440
>>1590437More reasons to support russoa
No.1590442
>>1590437<cut the date off>no linkWtf was the point in posting this?
If you're going to put in less than 0 effort then just don't bother at all.
No.1590446
>>1590437>In August 2019, Jorit painted the face of the first man in space, Yuri Gagarin, on the facade of a twenty-story building in the district of Odintsovo, Russia. At the base of the mural is "СССР", the abbreviation for the official name of the Soviet Union in the Russian alphabet.[8][9][10] It is the largest portrait of Gagarin in the world.[11]>On 22 February 2021, he painted the face of Valerio Verbano [it] on the facade of a building in Rome. Verbano was an Italian communist militant, killed in 1980 in an ambush by three fascists who had entered his home.[12]>After Russia's invasion of Ukraine, Jorit stated that Italy should have been supporting the Donbass separatists since 2014.[17][18]>Jorit made a mural in Naples of Fyodor Dostoevsky, in whose eye is a child in the colours of the Donetsk People's Republic. He argued that the issue had to be seen from 2014, and that the peoples of the Donbass had self-determined through two referendums, and that children of the two republics had been killed by Ukrainian army for eight years.>also expulsed from Israel after drawing a mural of the Palestianian girl who slapped an IDF einsatzkommandoHoly based
No.1590450
Real life antifa is based, unlike their astroturfed online counterpart
No.1590452
>>1590446>Jorit made a mural in Naples of Fyodor Dostoevsky, in whose eye is a child in the colours of the Donetsk People's RepublicUhhh new pfp??
No.1590472
>>1590153Lenin is young again, bros…
No.1590518
>>1590242Dugin
is a fascist though and the proof of nazism in Russia isn’t just a picture of Utkin, but also the existence of groups such as Rusich and the Russian Imperial Movement, or the fact that Orthodox priests and “prophets” spread misinfo and yearn for the return of the fascistic Romanovs.
No.1590520
>>1590373 (me)
And of course all this stuff is 100% a propaganda battle. If something leaves the ground it's probably registered on someone's radar. If it causes a big stink it was DEFINITELY caught on radar. So whatever the press releases say, the respective side's intelligence know, or have much more info, on the circumstances. We just get the fingerpointing.
No.1590545
Regulars of this general fully accept that liberalism and fascism are joined at the hip, and that social democracy being the moderate wing of fascism is objectively true. I already knew, some others had to go through severe cognitive dissonance.
"There is reaction within *enemy of NATO"" does not mean fucking anything here. NATO libs already got scratched and reveal themselves to fascists in real time and they're the ones in charge. Pointing at LARPers within their enemies just reveals what you're trying to do here.
No.1590548
>>1590538
Plenty of oldfags dislike neoliberal russia.
No.1590551
>>1590538
you're just a retard that is apparently not able to apply some basic critical thinking
No.1590552
>>1590548Not enough to support literal fascists like Ukraine and NATO.
No.1590555
>>1590548which is fine.
entertaining the idea they're even close to being as nazis as the ukrops is just delusional glowing which deserve all the trolling it receives
No.1590559
>>1590557Yes. Because the real world is a bit more complicated than an abstract "liberal/fascist camp". Not that idealist fucks understand that.
No.1590560
>>1590559It certainly is complicated but are you denying that russia is a liberal capitalist state?
No.1590561
>>1590560Nope. Never have.
No.1590565
>>1590539Same. It's fun to think about how we're a small group of people who don't know each other yet have spent 7 years going through our lives, growing and changing, all the while calling each other retards and faggots on a regular schedule. That Albania flag anon constantly debating anarchists and leftcoms and writing up huge effortposts, I wonder who he is and what he's up to now. How many real OG oldfags are there still hanging on do you think? Can't be more than like 50 tops.
No.1590569
>>1590538
Reddit spacing, and Reddit talk point. Coincidence?
No.1590576
>>1590518You're moving the goalposts. The question isn't whether there are fascists in Russia, but if capitalism in Russia degenerated into a semi fascist state like Ukraine. As a result, we are discussing collaboration in Ukraine, not whether fascists exist. This is why it's a total non sequitur. The issue is the degeneration of Ukraine's color revolutions and you're struggling to establish the far right character of a PMC based on very limited evidence.
The simple fact of the matter is only one state here mobilized its far right.
No.1590581
Can anyone give me a quick rundown on Ukrainian parliamentary politics pre-maidan and post-maidan up until the war? I've heard people say the pro-Russian parties were in steady decline since 2014, and that their base of support became more and more isolated to the easternmost areas. I wasn't paying close enough attention to know whether this is true or know about other circumstances that might explain it (other than democracy == anti-Russia).
No.1590596
>>1590518hoholfensiyv status?
No.1590599
>>1590538
>muh Russian fascism
shoo back to /k/ now ;^)
No.1590604
>>1590581Bourgeois playground of ""independents"" (i.e. some flavour of liberal), all wanting to use state power to benefit themselves. That meant turning towards the liberal heartland that is Europe and away from Russia, which meant boosting Ukrainian nationalism. Also, free trade. Some more sensible ones, that wanted to play both sides were labeled as "pro-Russian". Explicitly pro-Russian parties weren't in "steady decline", they just got banned.
No.1590612
>>1590596Robotyne status?
No.1590623
>>1590113golden dawn supports Russia?
No.1590629
>>1590576>The question isn't whether there are fascists in Russia, but if capitalism in Russia degenerated into a semi fascist state like Ukraine.United Russia doesn't mobilize anyone, it's not like a fascist party in Italy or Germany which were far more energetic. Russia does sometimes seem a bit like Francoist Spain or Salazar's Portugal in their later years though. It's not really radical, it's more pragmatic and is an adaptive balancing act and set of ecosystems made up of the presidential administration, the military-industrial complex, and the Russian Orthodox Church. The Russian government now talks about how their belief is the primacy of the "spiritual over the material."
It's a Bonapartist.
Ivan Ilyin.
>In his 1950 essay, “What Dismemberment of Russia Entails for the World,” Ilyin predicted the fall of the Soviet Union and gave instructions on how to save Russia from the evils of the Western world … Ilyin argues that the Russian state—by which he meant the old Russian Empire and its geographic descendant, the Soviet Union—is a unique geo-historical entity tied together by the spiritual unity of the Euro-Asiatic nations.
>As the Cold War took hold, Ilyin became increasingly convinced that the West was keen to see the destruction of Russia and would do whatever it took to achieve that internal fragmentation. This disintegration, he argued, would cause a long-lasting civil war within Russia whose negative consequences would reverberate around the world. Given the chance, meanwhile, great powers would inevitably try to annex parts of the Russian state and stimulate havoc, disorganization, and decay. Germany, he writes, “would move into Ukraine and the Baltics, England would bite off the Caucasus and Central Asia, Japan will target the Far Eastern shores.”
>Once the West, particularly Germany, annexed Ukraine, it would use the territory to undermine the might of the Russian state. Like many other conservatives, he did not believe that there was such a thing as a Ukrainian nation; Ukrainians thus had no right to any form of statehood. Meanwhile, for Russia, the loss of Ukraine would be fatal and lead to the further dismemberment and disintegration of the nation.
>As a warning to his fellow countrymen, Ilyin argues that during this process, the West would use the ideas of “democratization,” “federalization,” and “triumph of freedom” against Russia with only one purpose—to make it weak, so that it could be robbed blind … Ilyin argued that democracy is impossible in such a huge country as Russia, and the only possible power configuration is a “Russian national dictatorship.” In Ilyin’s eyes, it was impossible to unite the geographic, ethnic, and cultural diversity of Russia without a strong centralized power. It would be not a totalitarian dictatorship but rather an authoritarian one. It would be a state that would teach its people of “freedom” but limit it so that Russia would face not anarchy but order. Based on patriotism, and with a powerful leader at the top, such a system would protect Russia from revolutions and chaos.
>And so, as Putin moved to remake Russia, he turned to Ilyin as both justification for and the hopeful promise of the direction in which he strove to take the country … In essence, Ilyin gave a kind of legitimation for handing almost unchallenged power to the national leader—Putin—whose goal would be to strengthen the state and bring about its spiritual revival, promoting conservative values and norms. In a 2006 speech to Russia’s Federal Assembly, Putin recalled “the famous Russian thinker Ivan Ilyin,” who, “reflecting on the foundational principles on which the Russian state should firmly stand, noted that a soldier has a high and honest calling. . . . We must always be ready to ward off potential external aggression and acts of international terrorism. We must be able to answer any and all attempts to put external political pressure on Russia, including those that aim to strengthen their own position at our expense.”https://archive.ph/QF2dw#selection-2021.0-2029.224 No.1590634
>>1590518as if burgeristan is not even worse :/
No.1590654
Did anyone save that list of Victoria Nuland's actions in Sudan from last year? It was pretty well put together.
No.1590657
>>1590636
Yes, and? Nobody in these threads has ever claimed that Russia are the good guys, this has always been an inter-imperialist conflict with the hopes that the Russian or Ukrainian working class will take the opportunity to overthrow the bourgeois elements that have wrecked and enslaved the two countries over the past thirty years.
No.1590661
>>1590581>Can anyone give me a quick rundown on Ukrainian parliamentary politics pre-maidan and post-maidan up until the war? I've heard people say the pro-Russian parties were in steady decline since 2014, and that their base of support became more and more isolated to the easternmost areas. I wasn't paying close enough attention to know whether this is true or know about other circumstances that might explain it (other than democracy == anti-Russia).Pre-Maidan saw polarization of the Rada roughly from after the 2008 global recession to the 2012 parliamentary election, which was the last free election and a very rocky one at that because the Orange government had just gotten voted out. Fist fights in the Rada were not uncommon. All subsequent elections were tangled up in Ukraine fighting a civil war. During this period Svoboda and the Communist Party grew a lot, each holding 10-12% of the vote and taking 4th and 5th place. In total, the 2012 vote was divided between the essentially the neutral vote (PoR + CPU = 43%) and the 'pro-Ukraine' vote (Fatherland + UDAR + Svoboda = 49.5%). The votes were very very regionalized due to the linguistic division.
After Maidan, turnout in the fall 2014 elections collapsed in the east and south while the parties that represented them (Party of Regions and the Communist Party) collapsed with the coup or were banned afterward as the government was purged. This followed the disregarding of the February 21 2014 agreement that outlined conditions for new elections, instead ousting Yanukovych directly while the other parties filled the void (creating the utterly unrepresentative Rada and interim government). This purge and revision was part of a forceful erasure of the regional/linguistic divisions that caused the last color revolution to get voted out, which is how decommunization, anti-corruption, etc. became dogwhistles. The new post-Maidan Rada immediately signaled its intent to erase this division by repealing the 2012 language law within a couple days of the coup. After this provoked Crimean secession, that event was cited as justification to double down and accelerate the purge and revision to now also counter a Russian 'hybrid war' (i.e. we can disregard east-south people in Ukraine as part of fighting Russia). This acceleration, culminating in the ATO, allowed Ukraine's political divisions to be unilaterally redrawn particularly in south Ukraine without actual local groundswell changes in support (which enabled Zelensky to appeal to these same people in the east and south). But it's worse than that, they were not even uniting the country but progressing towards an even worse form of polarization than language: ethnicity. This was specifically targeted at south Ukraine as a way to get it to be less politically 'Russian speaking' and more 'ethnic Ukrainian majority', and that succeeded. However, the problem is south Ukraine is not represented when the country is divided by ethnicity and a war over finalizing that division. At that point it's west Ukraine doing what it wants because while they were able to artificially flip south Ukraine, it was at the expense of going to war with east Ukraine while voter turnout in the south collapsed.
The result is a hollow victory in uniting the country which you could've predicted using polling. Ukraine's polling showed that during Maidan Yanukovych still polled the highest, hinting at how this inter-oligarch battle was part of a bankrupt political class, while the east and south saw the Rada and interim government as lacking legitimacy (low 30s for the government, low 40s for the Rada). A plurality of those areas saw Maidan as an armed coup, a majority blamed Kiev for the loss of Crimea, and a supermajority thought a unitary, centralized nation-state like the West wanted was a shit idea and autonomy/federalization was preferable.
This 2014 outcome was ameliorated a bit with the 2019 elections, when Zelensky's outsider party swept because politics was being run by all west Ukrainian parties which had pretty much failed to unite the country. Then soon afterward the Zelensky alternative nosedived in them too.
The decline of 'pro-Russian parties' is manufactured because it was a false division in the first place. 'Pro-Russian' parties were not really pro-Russian, they just obstructed this ethnic realignment by representing a linguistic/regional one which consistently struck a middle ground between Europe and Russia. The latter division was deliberately scrubbed from politics in the name of decommunization, abolishing this neutral ground and basically artificially lumping together every ethnic Ukrainian to isolate ethnic Russians in east/south cities. This is why it looks like the 'pro-Russian side' declines from the PoR vote to the Donbass vote, what is actually happening there is Ukraine being divided between 'pro-Ukrainian' and 'pro-Russian' in the first place in the name of overwriting linguistic divisions with ethnic ones. The significance there is it proves Donbass is not different from Crimea, it utterly rejects this overwrite and it'll keep voting for harassed parties no matter what the state does - even launching an ATO.
This ethnic polarization is actually evidence Ukraine is failing as a state, but retards in Kiev and Washington legitimately thought it was the country uniting through war and the oddball Russians left out just had to get used to it because something about post-communist countries all becoming uniformly European. But now that the south is part of Russia, this all changes. The ethnic repolarization is being undone. What comes next?
>>1590629Yes I don't really disagree.
But tbh the Ilyin cope is kinda up there with the Dugin cope because Russia is both federalized as the former RSFSR and Eurasian. The ideologies of both men are ultimately precluded by this because Russian reactionaries depend on being a unitary pole of European imperialism. This is why Putin can never actually be a White.
Arguably the USSR, perhaps the Stalin era in particular due to SIOC, represents the first synthesis dealing with the question of either being a bourgeois democracy and balkanizing due to the history of the east being of multinational states (Marxism and the National Question) and a weak revolutionary bourgeoisie or centrally holding together the most reactionary parts of the chains of European imperialism for the sake of classes like landowners which won't weather global development.
I believe Putin is unable to regress Russia past this point to either be the neoliberal St. Petersburg boy or arch-reactionary silent majority populist he's been varyingly labeled. The truth is in the middle as you said - Bonapartism. The distinction being that I'm pretty sure at this point that Putin sees himself as a steward of a capitalist transition and knows what he represents isn't forever, and that as Russia succeeds through this transition so will this Bonapartism be succeeded. I see no evidence he's going White Guard to stop this.
Ukraine on the other hand has just regressed. I don't know how else to put what I've seen over the last 10 years.
No.1590666
>>1590663
please fuc/k/ off back home ;^)
No.1590673
>>1590669
Please point to these fascist apologetics or fuck off.
No.1590683
>>1590663
>>1590669
Most people on the board haven't said russia is "the good guys" as much as said that Russia is, by circumstance more than intent, acting in a progressive historical manner.
No.1590687
>>1590673>point to these fascist apologeticsthere's posts right above that try to whitewash the ukraine nazi problem with false equivalencies and fake photos that are supposed to be a dead wagner leader. this seems to be happening frequently lately as ukraine loses and the fascist simps feel the walls closing in.
No.1590695
>According to Freedom House’s Ukraine project director Matthew Schaaf, “numerous organized radical right-wing groups exist in Ukraine, and while the volunteer battalions may have been officially integrated into state structures, some of them have since spun off political and non-profit structures to implement their vision.” Schaaf noted that “an increase in patriotic discourse supporting Ukraine in its conflict with Russia has coincided with an apparent increase in both public hate speech, sometimes by public officials and magnified by the media, as well as violence towards vulnerable groups such as the LGBT community,” an observation that is supported by a recent Council of Europe study.
>In recent months, Ukraine has experienced a wave of unchecked vigilantism. Institute Respublica, a local pro-democracy NGO, reported that activists are frequently harassed by vigilantes when holding legal meetings or rallies related to politically-controversial positions, such as the promotion of LGBT rights or opposition to the war. Azov and other militias have attacked anti-fascist demonstrations, city council meetings, media outlets, art exhibitions, foreign students and Roma.
>Progressive activists describe a new climate of fear that they say has been intensifying ever since last year's near-fatal stabbing of anti-war activist Stas Serhiyenko, which is believed to have been perpetrated by an extremist group named C14 (the name refers to a 14-word slogan popular among white supremacists). Brutal attacks this month on International Women’s Day marches in several Ukrainian cities prompted an unusually forceful statement from Amnesty International, which warned that "the Ukrainian state is rapidly losing its monopoly on violence.”
>Ukraine is not the only country that must contend with a resurgent far right. But Kiev’s recent efforts to incorporate independent armed groups into its regular armed forces, as well as a continuing national sense of indebtedness to the militias for their defense of the homeland, make addressing the ultranationalist threat considerably more complicated than it is elsewhere. According to Schaaf and the Institute Respublica, Ukrainian extremists are rarely punished for acts of violence. In some cases — such as C14's January attack on a remembrance gathering for two murdered journalists — police actually detain peaceful demonstrators instead.
>Connections between law enforcement agencies and extremists give Ukraine’s Western allies ample reason for concern. C14 and Kiev's city government recently signed an agreement allowing C14 to establish a "municipal guard" to patrol the streets; three such militia-run guard forces are already registered in Kiev, and at least 21 operate in other cities.https://www.reuters.com/article/us-cohen-ukraine-commentary/commentary-ukraines-neo-nazi-problem-idUSKBN1GV2TY No.1590783
>>1590731melitopol status?
No.1590787
>>1590731Sauce? So it's still hotly contested?
No.1590802
>>1590787>Boris "Colonel Cassad" Rozhin:
>Vladimir Rogov said that the Armed Forces of Ukraine in Rabotino could not move beyond the ruins of a school in the central part of the village. The rest of the center and the southern part of Rabotino is a gray zone. Positions of the RF Armed Forces on the southern outskirts. In general - a complete repetition of Pyatikhatok.
>Apparently, reports of the complete abandonment of Rabotino arose from Balitsky's message, which he made after our units that launched the counterattack retreated to their original positions. The Russian Defense Ministry specifically focused on this this morning when it stated that the tactical situation had not changed - during yesterday's counterattacks, the enemy was driven out of the southern part of Rabotino, where he was trying to gain a foothold. After that, our troops returned to their previous positions due to difficulties in securing a foothold in the destroyed village.
>For us, it is most beneficial to further prolong the viscous battles in Rabotino and around it, since the enemy is losing strength and time here.The enemy, in turn, seeks to solve the Rabotino problem at any cost, get out of the vicious positional battles and rush south in the direction of Tokmak. As the reserve brigades of the Armed Forces of Ukraine in the Rabotino area are depleted, it will become more and more difficult to do this. It will soon begin to rain, and there will be mudslides, which will create additional difficulties for the enemy in an already bleak situation with a failed operational-strategic offensive plan.
>#source: https://t.me/boris_rozhin/96836
>@Slavyangrad No.1590812
>>1590731Is there any proof of this, or is this one of those famous Telegram Offensives that Russia has gotten so good at over the past year?
No.1590849
>>1590840they will eat don mac and they wlll like it
No.1590854
>>1590840>>1590849I usually avoid McDonald's but goddamn I still think their fries are great. I don't know what it is about them, if they put crack in it or what, but they're the best fucking fries of any fast food place.
Seriously, I've been to a place whose whole thing is serving fancy fucking french fries. Parmesan garlic stuff. And McDonald's still has the best goddamn fries ever. Any anon here know what they put in that stuff?
No.1590856
>>1590475the eternal anglo fears dis
No.1590860
>>1590852I gave up on Lord Bebo back a couple of months ago when he posted a video of some Ukrainians about to put a mortar round into the tube upside down and nearly kill themselves, except he didn't notice that they were Russian troops wearing Russian uniforms and Russian gear while using Russian mortars, all the time speaking Russian. You could get a more reliable sense of the status of Robotyne by flipping a coin.
No.1590861
>>1590852Why wouldn't you trust someone who has "Anti Woke" in his bio and a doggo as pfp
No.1590863
>>1590854>if they put crack in it or what,That was my assumption as well as a fellow schizo/paranoid guy. And indeed, there was a study showing how many of the chemicals in fast food act like drugs. And I dont think it was only salt/sugar. I think it was also some sort of preservative too.
Cant remember if it was this one.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1mzpazyCSpHV6BJOTuHXpWAUPk8ZxoNI5/view?pli=1
>Here, we provide evidence that HPFs meet the three criteria of an addictive substance asoutlined by the 1988 SG report on the addictive nature of tobacco products. Like tobacco, HPFs 1)
trigger compulsive use, 2) have psychoactive effects, and 3) are highly reinforcing (19). In addition,
HPFs 4) trigger strong urges and cravings, which has emerged as a strong predictor of addictive
use(20). These HPFs are highly complex substances that cannot be simplified to a single chemical
agent acting through a specific central mechanism.
>Tobacco companies (i.e., Philip Morris, RJ Reynolds) bought food and beverage companies(e.g., Kraft General Foods, Nabisco) and became some of the biggest producers of HPFs in the world
No.1590867
>>1590854The fries are good but i hate eating nothing but carbs and empty calories. I like mcgriddles tho
No.1590868
>>1590475I'm all day trying to ID the south africa art piece. Lol
No.1590876
>>1590867I've always wondered what kind of monster likes the mcgriddle, but I guess now I know.
No.1590878
>>1590863Damn, that's kind of wild. Didn't know about the tobacco company connection.
Funny enough, I think I might be somehow immune to nicotine addiction. Like, I smoke cigars semi-regularly, but I've gone months without them and I've been fine. I've also smoked Hookah too. As far as addictions go the hardest for me to kick is drinking.
>>1590867>>1590876I've gotten the McGriddle a couple times for breakfast. It's unhealthy as fuck but it tastes pretty good.
All that said, I kicked McDonald's ages ago once I realized how unnutritious it is.
No.1590894
>>1590863>>1590878A lot of companies use a proprietary mix of glutamate analogs with fine tuned dose response curves to be maximally satisfying and addictive. They are like aspartame and sucralose compared to sugar where they activate 100-1000 times more receptors for the dose so they only have to use microgram amounts so you have a blend of MSG but dosed like fentanyl.
Juul(Philip Morris) does this with a mix of different nicotine salts with overlapping dose response curves and so does Adderall with amphetamine salts but supposedly to smooth it out.
>A mixture composed of 98% monosodium glutamate and 2% E635 has four times the flavor enhancing power of monosodium glutamate (MSG) alone.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disodium_inosinatehttps://sci-hub.se/https://doi.org/10.1111/j.1365-2621.1967.tb09715.x No.1590898
>>1590475that’s not a coin though that’s a bill
No.1590904
>>1590900If you look closely, you can see the phone sucking out the soul of that boy.
No.1590916
>>1590911
Equally intelligent to the post it was replying to
No.1590920
>>1590911
go back to reddit
No.1590946
>It sounds like the stuff of Kremlin propaganda, but it’s not. Last week Hromadske Radio revealed that Ukraine’s Ministry of Youth and Sports is funding the neo-Nazi group C14 to promote “national patriotic education projects” in the country. On June 8, the Ministry announced that it will award C14 a little less than $17,000 for a children’s camp. It also awarded funds to Holosiyiv Hideout and Educational Assembly, both of which have links to the far-right. The revelation represents a dangerous example of law enforcement tacitly accepting or even encouraging the increasing lawlessness of far-right groups willing to use violence against those they don’t like.
>Since the beginning of 2018, C14 and other far-right groups such as the Azov-affiliated National Militia, Right Sector, Karpatska Sich, and others have attacked Roma groups several times, as well as anti-fascist demonstrations, city council meetings, an event hosted by Amnesty International, art exhibitions, LGBT events, and environmental activists. On March 8, violent groups launched attacks against International Women’s Day marchers in cities across Ukraine. In only a few of these cases did police do anything to prevent the attacks, and in some they even arrested peaceful demonstrators rather than the actual perpetrators.
>International human rights groups have sounded the alarm. After the March 8 attacks, Amnesty International warned that “Ukraine is sinking into a chaos of uncontrolled violence posed by radical groups and their total impunity. Practically no one in the country can feel safe under these conditions.” Amnesty International, Human Rights Watch, Freedom House, and Front Line Defenders warned in a letter that radical groups acting under “a veneer of patriotism” and “traditional values” were allowed to operate under an “atmosphere of near total impunity that cannot but embolden these groups to commit more attacks.”
>To be clear, far-right parties like Svoboda perform poorly in Ukraine’s polls and elections, and Ukrainians evince no desire to be ruled by them. But this argument is a bit of “red herring.” It’s not extremists’ electoral prospects that should concern Ukraine’s friends, but rather the state’s unwillingness or inability to confront violent groups and end their impunity. Whether this is due to a continuing sense of indebtedness to some of these groups for fighting the Russians or fear they might turn on the state itself, it’s a real problem and we do no service to Ukraine by sweeping it under the rug.
>Far-right impunity also represents a dangerous threat to Ukraine’s statehood. It’s been long understood in Western political and legal philosophy that the state must have a monopoly on violence in order to be a legitimate state, and when a state loses this monopoly, society starts to break down.
>In addition to the Youth Ministry’s problematic funding, C14 and a Kyiv city district recently signed an agreement allowing C14 to establish a “municipal guard” to patrol the streets; three such militia-run guard forces are already registered in Kyiv, and twenty-one operate in other cities as well. And C14’s dangerous leader Yevhen Karas even boasts openly about cooperating with the Security Services of Ukraine (SBU). https://www.atlanticcouncil.org/blogs/ukrainealert/ukraine-s-got-a-real-problem-with-far-right-violence-and-no-rt-didn-t-write-this-headline/ No.1590948
>>1590812>Is there any proof of this, or is this one of those famous Telegram Offensives that Russia has gotten so good at over the past year?It's the Counter-Counteroffensyivove. If it works, it works, if it fails it never happened.
They actually happen on the ground, but you won't see it here because it doesn't fit the narrative.
No.1590963
>>1590948LMFAO no fucking way, you NAFO transhumanists have moved the target from "take Mariupol" to "RESIST THE COUNTER-COUNTEROFFENSIVE".
YOU CANT MAKE THIS SHIT UP
Ukraine is totally winning though!!!
No.1590997
>>1590993Gods wrath for shelling the Donbas for 8 years.
No.1590998
>>1590993They're all actually undercover Neonazis, that's why we need to get Rusich to drop bomb on them
No.1591004
>>1590879
Sorry Vatnik, I only trust reliable Western sources not random pictures you found on Russian social media.
No.1591005
>>1590993>Ukraine places NATO equipment and soldiers in civilian areas>Russia strikes against the lethal NATO equipment and enemy combatants<WTF WTF PUTLER PUTLER HOW DARRRE YOU Maybe if Zelenskyy and Co. weren't placing their armies and armaments in such reckless locations civilian areas wouldn't have been striked. The real criminal in this situation is fucking obviously the one placing all these civilians at risk in the first place, the ones eager to use hospitals, schools, etc as shields for their soldiers armed to the teeth, rather than the side who just has to react. But watch the west get the roles completely reversed as always.
Typical fascist tactics, Ukraine is a nation of scoundrels and cowardly scum.
No.1591008
>>1591005Same logic used by israel to justify bombing palestinians.
No.1591011
A literal Nazi collaborator in my /ukraine/ oh my.
No.1591015
>>1591014
The media told them to. We're talking about the Ukraine, right?
No.1591016
>>1591008That's always the excuse lol, we're supposed to believe that "the enemy" is somehow storing crapton of munitions in open air markets or small and cramped elementary schools. Very convenient. At one point we will just have to accept that the true purpose behind strategic bombings on civilian area have never been about disabling industry or destroying weaponry but to commit ISIS-tier terror attacks against enemy populace
No.1591036
>>1591013The Kremlin got Röpcke…
No.1591037
>>1591036Insane how he was called Jihadi Julian and was one of the most famous shills for "democratic" rebels in Syria while now he's being accused of being pro-putin.
No.1591039
>>1591037The voices tell me that the only reason Julian admits to this is because it was not an AA missile that misfired, but deliberately shot by the Ukraine at its own population for propaganda.
No.1591042
>>1591039I dunno, it seems to me he think it was just a misfire or something similar. It's not like anyone can prove it was deliberate, anyway
No.1591044
>>1591042In any case, if some idiots on twitter can figure this one out, there is no way Agent Z doesn't know it was a Ukrainian missile, yet he still claims otherwise.
No.1591047
>>1590102>you might have turned a good leftist away.you are literally a federal agent, what are you talking about
No.1591049
>>1591044Ukrops were claiming the missile they shot into Poland wasn't Ukranian even when NATO was saying it was.
No.1591051
>>1590050>calling the group Wagner no less should be enough to raise eyebrowsthis is the most fake and gay possible argument you could possibly put forth to conclude wagner is a nazi group. you spend too much time on the internet
No.1591055
>>1591006>>1591016At least they placed it - from what I can see - amongst abandoned residential buildings. I'm pretty sure there wasn't any better place storing ammunition which will always harm buildings in a large radius if blown up.
Ukrop human shield tactics consist of something very specific, they are about the deliberately putting the civilian population in harm's way.
These tactics can only exist when the army fighting the war cares more about reinforcing the media spectacle of allied countries rather than protecting their own population. See ukrops directly placing artillery next to residential building in use. We know that at least during Siege of Mariupol the Ukrainian army threatened to shoot people if they tried to leave. These tactics can be also interpreted as using Western reports of Russians striking at civilians as a deterrence against further Russian attacks. Looking at the matter from this angle human shield tactics didn't work at all because Russians kept blowing up anything they believed to be military targets. This might make the RAF just as cruel, but from their side the heart-heardening produced results and already during the Battle of Bakhmut the AFU decided to properly evacuate the city instead of turning the battle into a siege.
The accusation of the AFU using "human shield tactics" has been confirmed by several bloodthirsty zigga sources, such as the UN and Amnesty International. It is also possible that the human shield tactics were discontinued because of pressure from their Western donors, hence authoritative voices in the West calling out Ukrainians. As a sidenote, similar tactics had been used by the Bosnian Army during the Siege of Sarajevo.
>Bosnian Muslim forces at Sarajevo, UN observers noted, were often the first to begin the daily artillery barrages, firing on Serb targets and Serb neighborhoods in order to provoke a response and trigger Western military intervention. A failure to make any distinction as to who wasfiring at whom implied that the Serbs were the sole culprits.
>About ninety thousand Serbs chose to remain in Sarajevo during the siege. Bosnian Serb forces had offered safe passage to all civilians. With noncombatants out of the way, especially women and children, the Serbs would be able to treat Sarajevo as a purely military target. Izetbegovic dismissed the offer for the same reason, stating that without children Sarajevo would be wide open to Serb attack. Furthermore, civilian suffering was an important propaganda theme. So Muslim troops prevented anyone from leaving the Muslim-controlled part of Sarajevo, in effect, creating a siege within the siege.
>The amount of destruction wreaked upon the lovely city of Dubrovnik by the Yugoslav army was greatly exaggerated in press reports. Most of the old city survived undamaged. But Croat defense forces bear a share of the responsibility for the shelling that did take place. As even a strongly anti-Milosevic writer observed: “They were returning fire from gun and small artillery positions on the old town walls, goading the JNA [Yugoslav National Army] into firing upon them. They were cunningly exploiting international outrage for military purposes. […] " No.1591099
>>1591013Der Ukraykraine shelled demselves…
No.1591108
>>1591008Cope. UA hides in residential areas and Russia isn't containing them.
>>1590918The claim was Wagner is a Nazi org, and this thread is full of cope because the people saying otherwise have no information on it or Utkin when pressed. This is not surprising since western MSM already admitted before the war it has little knowledge of Wagner, which is used to drum up conspiracies.
This is related to people who struggle to accept liberal Europe supported fascism in Ukraine because Russia was blamed for the crisis of liberal democracy. So, in order to drum up an equivalency to evidence of systematic fascist collaboration and terror in Ukraine we get…an unsourced photo. The difference in methodology betrays you have nothing.
No.1591110
>>1591108Tbh I don't get what they're supposed to do then. Have command and control centers in tents in big fields with large glowing signs that say
STRIKE HERE? Everyone waging a war who is even a little bit serious about fighting will utilize urban areas for concealment and cover.
No.1591114
>>1591110maybe evacuate the civvies you pretend to protect that are around when you set up ?
No.1591116
>>1591110I'm not really qualified to answer that
No.1591124
>>1591110you know war crime conventions are bullshit when the act of using civilian infrastructure isn't a warcrime in itself
No.1591127
>>1591069Extremely interesting. There hasn't been many cases of video manipulation so obvious.
No.1591131
>>1591110shut up
even Amnesty admitted that what ukrops are doing are wrong, when you are trying out argue glow orgs about the infallibility of Ukrainians, you should stop and ask yourself why are here and not on reddit
www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2022/08/ukraine-ukrainian-fighting-tactics-endanger-civilians/
As shown by the battle of bakhmut, Ukrainians seem to have abandoned such tactics and the market was probably hit by a rouge anti-air missile
Western media tries to make you think that any time you see a suffering Ukrainian, you should want more weapons to be sent to Ukraine, a continued war against Russia and hate Russians because always the Russians are to blame. It's disgusting. Sadly even some self-proclaimed communists fall for it.
No.1591132
>>1591013Which brings into question, why the NYT, or the officials they were steno-graphing decided to publish that video. Perhaps it's part of the campaign to take Zelenskyy's public persona down a peg?
No.1591136
>>1591132It was probably an oversight, the shadows are just visible on two frames and easy to miss. NYT used the modified version from AP.
>>1591127I just checked, the original video is still up on Zelenskys Telegram account.
No.1591140
>>1591110>Tbh I don't get what they're supposed to do thenOH they definitely cannot afford to be in the open or they would be even more disadvantaged in the war. But that's the thing. If the circumstances are like that then maybe they shouldn't be fighting the war to begin with.
What the Ukrainian government should be doing is *not* sacrificing their everything and everyone, on the altar of US foreign policy for a gibs to the elite and a puppet state that rehabilitates their Nazoid nationalists. Even though it has zero autonomy and they are signing up to be canon fodder,for NATO, in perpetuity.
No.1591142
>>1590993>America does this to Afghan weddings, hospitals, markets, and homes for for 20 years without ever formally declaring wari sleep
<Russia hits some market in a country they are openly at war with while trying to hit military targetsreal shit
No.1591161
>>1591008I am sick and tired of this retarded ass false equivalence that is disrespectful towards Palestine more than anything. Ukraine is an enormous country with almost unlimited (Western) resources, not a tiny strip of land in the desert that HAS few other options than to lob homemade explosives from residential areas. Furthermore, unlike Palestine and regardless of Western propaganda to the contrary, Ukraine is not facing an existential threat and can end the war any time. Ukraine willingly puts its citizens in danger to earn pity points through Western media.
No.1591184
>>1591016>and cramped elementary schoolsLul there was a shitton of photos with ammunition and smiling AFUoids in schools, especially from the beginning of the war. Retards couldn't hold themselves from posting on insta
No.1591186
Multipolarism III is now a thread and somehow it's just as shit as Multipolarism I and Multipolarism II. Full of NATO communists convinced they'll become DOTP any minute now and export revolution to the chinese who are totally capitalists btw.
No.1591203
>>1590661great post, how do I archive it (instead of just screencapping)
No.1591212
>>1591016>At one point we will just have to accept that the true purpose behind strategic bombings on civilian area have never been about disabling industry or destroying weaponry but to commit ISIS-tier terror attacks against enemy populaceIf that was true, civilian casualties wouldn't be a fraction of the Iraq war. And by that I mean the actual war with the state, in the first month or so from March 20th to April 30th 2003 there were 7500 Iraqi civilian casualties. The UN currently claims that after 18 months there are 25k civilian casualties in Ukraine, 5000 of which are in Russian held territory and 4000 of that are in LDNR.
It's pretty clear Russia is focusing on precision strikes with missiles rather than the demonstration of air and naval power that Iraq was. The proof of this is the integrity of Ukrainian water infrastructure.
No.1591219
In my case, it does sorta feel like karmatic justice that these people who probably gave full support to the nazi regime for years have finally got a taste of what they've been pummeling civilians in the Donbass with for 8 years. It's like Katyn, Russia didn't do it but if they did do it it would be based.
No.1591220
>>1591219Bomber Harris tier thinking, Mariupol suffered in a couple months what Donetsk suffered over four years.
No.1591232
>>1591219The people dying are in Russian speaking regions lol
No.1591252
>>1591006>Did you write the same moral piece when Russians placed an ammo dump 300 meters from a hospital in Donezk?This is why collecting ammo from propaganda to play the moralfag is pointless. It doesn't say anything of substance and confines discussion to the geopolitics branch of the culture war.
No.1591281
>>1591219For 8+ years, Ukrainians have told me that unlike mongoloid Russians who are genetically predisposed to despotism, they can overthrow their government any time they want thanks to their democratic cossack DNA, as was shown by the Maidan.
As they haven't bothered to stop the war in Donbass, that means they didn't want to and were fine with what was happening, or else they would have exercised their cossack will to rebel once again.
Therefore picrelated.
No.1591283
>>1589796Brazil did have its own FDR figure, Getúlio Vargas.
It's actually scary how similar they were. Roosevelt famously called him "my favorite dictator".
No.1591348
>>1591314You think he has lost it?
No.1591359
Why are there people on this site getting baited by geriatric EU bureaucrats shitposting on Twitter?
>>1591314leftypol's down bad huh
No.1591379
>>15908712 more weeks, we'll break through!
No.1591384
>>1591186literally the worst thread on this site
No.1591395
>>1590894>>1590863>go to ukro general>get redpilled on capitalist ciggithx comrades
No.1591396
>>1591384>literally the worst thread on this sitehe said, from his russian chauvnism containment thread
No.1591401
>>1590993RT.com literally implies this was a case of internal terrorism.
If true, ukro days r numbered.
No.1591402
>>1590946Thanks anon. Saved.
Ukes are just so fucking vile… Did you know that uke refugees in Czech murdered a Roma man stabbed him to death in the street as a hate crime a couple of weeks ago.
Worst than fucking turkroaches. Horrid.
I am not to sober to post i just wanted to have the image for posterity next time someone here tries to tell me that russia fascism is just as bad. T.T No.1591404
>>1591402On reddit, you can just edit your posts. Maybe try there.
No.1591407
>>1591281Harden your heart, Putin! No mercy to the hohols!
No.1591409
Heart status?
HARDENED
No.1591411
>>1591401The only case of internal terrorism with big implications would be civvie-on-govt/military or inter-military
Everything else doesn't matter, they may blow up their own every day
No.1591413
>>1591411I expect more "mysterious" BOMBINGZ
No.1591414
>>1591413>Help me, I'm winning! *blows up on civilian center*As if ukrops couldn't get dumber.
No.1591415
>>1591404Well if you so know much about it you are welcome to return. :)
No.1591421
>>1591405He's such a gigapork that his private fucking satellite system actually does matter.
No.1591430
>>1591401>RT dot comis there a
neutral source that also implies this?
(USER WAS BANNED FOR THIS POST) No.1591435
>>1588958Peremoga with Ukrainian Characteristics
Final Counteroffensyïv by 2025
No.1591439
>>1588961gullen moment indeed.
>>1589046>before the far-right inevitably coups your failstatethat was the goal all along. "they expect one of us in the wreckage, brother"
No.1591466
From r/stupidpol
https://old.reddit.com/r/stupidpol/comments/16ce2d0/finlands_sanna_marin_steps_down_as_mp_joins_tony/Sanna Marin announces plan to resign as MP and join Tony Blair institute<The former Finnish Prime Minister made the announcement at a press conference on Thursday afternoon.https://yle.fi/a/74-20049056Sanna Marin, former Finnish prime minister, joins the Tony Blair Institutehttps://www.institute.global/insights/news/sanna-marin-former-finnish-prime-minister-joins-the-tony-blair-institute>[…] Ms Marin has a record of accomplishment, from setting one of the world’s most ambitious climate targets – enabled by a full programme of digitalisation and deployment of technology – to shepherding her country’s accession to NATO following Russia’s aggression in Ukraine (the swiftest accession in the alliance’s history).https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanna_MarinJob's done! Now for the right(er) wing to push for Nazis while the socdems push for reheated anticommunism and what do you know, they end up on the same side of foreign policy! Compromise!
No.1591471
>>1591359I think it's more shocking that geriatric EU bureaucrats are getting baited by imageboard shitposters than the other way around
No.1591472
>>1591466I can't believe NAFOids were so desperate for their own Poklonskaya they were pretending that this dead eyed 5/10 neoliberal automaton is unbelievably hot and making catgirl memes of her. It's one step removed from jerking off to Hillary or Merkel
No.1591485
>>1591472>natoids<we will show our respect and admiration by masturbating at themI hate liberals. I hate liberals.
No.1591488
>>1591472NATO in Finland showing Putlermort what's what and done by a girlboss no less, made every blue check mark twitteroid coom last year. I see no further logic in the phenomenon it just fitted into their worldview and sense of justice too well.
No.1591516
>>1591466i remember some leftie podcaster saying how every single non core liberal/neocon politician always proceeds to seek a job at a western institute, seems like it’s the case with finland too lmao. Why did she even do this? she is already rich, why seek work at a western psy op ngo?
No.1591525
>>1591521
two possibilities:
>its not him in that picture
nothingburger
>its him
nothingburger, but also putin just killed another nazi
No.1591527
>>1591521
Do you get paid every time you post this?
No.1591539
>>1591525It's cope either way. Utkin didn't found Wagner and it's not his organization, very likely it's also not a single organization but a front for the state. I actually checked and Bellingcat reports on it as nothing more than a GRU cut out which is headquartered on a base run by the GRU and whose military operations are led by GRU officers. It's gg if this is the retort to the nationalist volunteer army trying to save the state after a degenerated color revolution.
No.1591550
>>1591525it's not him
>but theyr both bald!! No.1591551
the funny thing is that even if Utkin is truly a dyed in the wool Nazi and truly founded Wagner, it doesn't really matter because there's no evidence Wagner itself is influenced by nazi ideology or acts in nazi interests
meanwhile Azov and friends were founded by nazis, outwardly profess ethnonationalist views and have been carrying out ethnic cleansing while infiltrating Ukrainian power structures and pushing through anti-russian laws
No.1591591
>>1590871Some fuck on The Times was coping by saying that it took months for the allies to break out of Normandy after D-day, which is the line they've been towing since the counteroffensive started.
I guess the Ukrainians are going to try to recruit an additional 400,000 men (or women now apparently) over the fall and winter, but only Trotsky knows where they'll find them.
No.1591594
>>1591551>it doesn't really matter because there's no evidence Wagner itself is influenced by nazi ideology or acts in nazi interestsummm excuse me but russia is literally fascist so qed bicth
No.1591596
How would the muddy season affect the use of mines and nukes? Also how much of the RuZZian trench network is temporary structures that will collapse in mud?
remember that pro-ukraine gets butthurt if you use rasputitsa instead of bezdorizhzhya
No.1591603
I think Utkin likely was spiritually a HoI TNO player and German WW2 military enthusiast, but Wagner (or the many groups colloquially known as "Wagner") are PMCs and alphabet agency proxies, not ideological organizations. Their origins are ex-military officers that became useful to the state for less than official purposes. In a different world they might have degenerated into freikorps-like gangs, but this is not that world. Wagner is no different from Blackwater or Executive Outcomes - the gun for hire lifestyle often attracts rightoids, but that by itself does not an ideological organization make. Some outlet allegedly investigated Utkin and procured some of his correspondence, and while they noted that he signed letters with two sieg runes lol, he also wrote in a letter that "I don't give a shit what anyone believes, we're here to work and get paid.", leading the journos to conclude that ideology doesn't matter all that much at Wagner.
<We cannot estimate how many Wagnerites support such views, but it probably does not matter. Utkin's epistolary legacy supports the theory that ideology is not what matters at Wagner. This approach is a bit at odds with the ideals of the SS, which envisioned the abandonment of personal interest in the name of loyalty to the Führer and the nation, but it is not our task to understand the confusion of meanings in Utkin's head.https://dossier.center/utkin/Contrast this with Ukranian militias who all originated from football hooligans and skinhead gangs, having strict ideological dogma and political officers enforcing said dogma (such as Biletsky for Azov), along with active networking with nazi and right-wing organizations & parties in the US and Europe, infiltrating military academies, and a few members even traveling to Hong Kong to teach "street tactics" to locals.
No.1591609
>>1591603 (me)
There'd be a better point made comparing small PMCs like Russich (led by a paganist nazi animal torturer freak) or Espanola (formed by football hooligans who usually overlap with skinheads) to Ukrainian national militias, but again, scale lol. We're talking about maybe 100-300 informally organized individuals compared to a combined force of many dozen groups organized into an entire branch of service, and at its height numbering up to 100k troops.
No.1591624
havent followed the whole conversation so dont jump down my throat for this. is the argument over whether or not wagner is explicitly an ideologically fascist organization (clearly untrue) or whether or not they as a PMC army heavily attract reactionary elements which are de facto empowered by their positions in a successful capitalist venture (clearly true)?
the distinction between true politically motivated fascist organizing and emptyheaded jackboots for hire to the highest bidder is important of course, but would be crazy for communists to start unironically shilling for PMCs
No.1591626
>They were huddled in the corner of an underpass: Two young women who had just been running down the street screaming for help.>They were soon surrounded by medical staff and a few police officers. Their faces red and teary, looking like they could barely see, the two women had just been pepper-sprayed by far-right extremists after an attempted march in the Ukrainian capital to commemorate victims of transphobic violence.>"Attempted," because the far right didn’t let the march of no more than 50 people take place last November.>With smoke bombs in hand, a mob of some 200 far-right extremists gathered around the marchers, shouting abuse like “Get lost, faggots.” The thin line of police officers protecting the marchers decided to cancel the event before it even started.>It is a scene that, unfortunately, has become a not-uncommon sight across Ukraine over the past year. A number of observers, from human rights activists to local journalists and researchers, tell Haaretz that the extremists' violence and vigilantism has been enabled and tolerated for far too long by Ukraine’s authorities.>They also warn that 2019, with both presidential and parliamentary elections set to take place in Ukraine, won’t be the end of far-right violence there.>On April 20, extremists from the neo-Nazi C14 (aka Sich) celebrated Hitler’s birthday by burning down a Roma camp in Kiev>In June, another nationalist group, Sober and Angry Youth, stabbed and killed 24-year-old David Pap during an attack on a Roma camp near Lviv, western Ukraine. The neo-Nazi group posted a video of the attack online, calling it “A Small Report on a Gypsy Safari.”>Far-right groups have been able to take advantage of the ongoing war with Russian-led forces in eastern Ukraine to present themselves as “patriots,” their rhetoric and messages increasingly becoming part of the mainstream.>“What’s changed in the last year is that they’ve become more violent,” says Volodymyr Ishchenko, a sociologist and lecturer at Kiev Polytechnic Institute, adding that violence is at the core of everything they do. Far-right figures have been used as what Ishchenko calls “muscle for hire,” as in the case of murdered civil rights and anti-corruption activist Kateryna Handziuk in Kherson last year.>Handziuk was sprayed with a liter of sulfuric acid by far-right extremists outside her home last July. The 33-year-old died from her injuries last November, and police detained five men over the attack. However, before her death the activist questioned whether the police really wanted to catch the culprits.>Despite their reputation for violence, some of these groups are still being treated as part of Ukraine’s mainstream – something human rights advocates warn is a threat to the country’s democratic values.>Even when they’re not formally cooperating with local authorities, far-right figures have gained a measure of day-to-day acceptance as legitimate political players in Ukraine.>At a rally of political parties in Kiev last October to advocate for electoral reform, Serhii Filimonov, the local head of the far-right political party National Corps, gave a speech as members of the Azov movement’s National Militia milled around in their matching blue camouflage jackets – one with a large SS tattoo on his neck. >Azov, originally created as a battalion in 2014 to fight Russian-led forces in eastern Ukraine, is now a three-pronged movement composed of the original battalion – now an official Ukrainian National Guard regiment; the National Corps political party; and the National Militia, a paramilitary group that says it “polices” the streets.>Filimonov is no stranger to violence; he is a soccer hooligan who spent his teen years as part of C14. He also led one of the Roma attacks in 2018 and was involved in a high-profile attack on black fans at a Champions League soccer match in Kiev in 2015.>Ironically, the far-right party Filimonov was representing at the rally for electoral reform doesn’t always appear to be in favor of democracy. In 2015, a senior member of National Corps’ leadership board described democracy as “irresponsible behavior.” Another senior National Corps leader recently shared a Facebook post, originally written during the Maidan protests in 2013, which suggested only those “ready to defend their country with arms” should have the right to vote.>Some of the most dangerous far-right figures have long been suspected of having connections with Ukraine’s intelligence and law enforcement agencies. The Azov movement, for instance, has long been assumed to be under the protection of Ukraine’s powerful interior minister, Arsen Avakov.>Likewise, C14 has long been rumored to be linked to Ukraine’s security service, the Security Service of Ukraine (SBU). C14’s leader, Yevhen Karas, has been accused of having connections to Ukraine’s intelligence services since the times of the Maidan revolution. A former high-ranking member of C14, Dmytro Riznychenko, alleged that Karas received a tip from the security services in February 2014 that there would be a police assault on protesters. In turn, Karas encouraged his group to leave Maidan Square and take refuge in the nearby Canadian Embassy.>The C14 leader was also seen at the private ceremony in Kiev in January commemorating Ukraine’s newly independent Orthodox Church, alongside high-ranking Ukrainian government and state officials.>Other far-right figures continue to occupy positions of considerable influence. Vadym Troyan, a onetime member of the neo-Nazi Patriot of Ukraine group once headed by Andriy Biletsky – the National Corps’ current leader – is deputy minister of internal affairs. And the head of one of Ukraine’s police departments, Sergey Korotkikh, is a Belarusian citizen and extremist who cut his teeth in a notorious neo-Nazi gang in Moscow, and was given Ukrainian citizenship by President Petro Poroshenko in 2014 for his participation in the Azov Battalion.>Ironically, that is because of the level of strife that currently exists between some far-right groups. Despite efforts by the National Corps to rally far-right extremists around Biletsky, the nationalist Svoboda (Freedom) party insisted on naming its own presidential candidate, Ruslan Koshulynsky. The two parties are now at odds, with each even hosting separate marches on January 1 to honor Stepan Bandera – the wartime Ukrainian nationalist and Nazi collaborator whose forces committed war crimes against Poles and Jews.>The far right might also be able to have an impact on some parliamentary races later this year, says Kiev Polytechnic Institute’s Ishchenko.>Other observers echo these concerns. In a preliminary election violence risk assessment last December, the United States Institute of Peace – an independent institute funded by the U.S. Congress – has warned that there is a significant risk of far-right groups physically threatening “voters and candidates, ethnic or religious minorities, and left-wing, LGBTQ or human rights activists.” >If they do, they might be able to take advantage of newfound positions as apparently neutral, state-sanctioned election observers. In a meeting on January 11, Ukraine’s electoral commission gave Azov’s National Militia permission to act as official observers in March’s presidential elections.>Ukrainian Jewish Committee’s Dolinsky isn’t sanguine about what the future might bring. Ukraine’s government, he says, has made common cause with the nationalist far right – adopting its rhetoric, enabling its leaders and letting them operate with relative impunity.>And even if the most extreme figures on the far right have shied away from overt anti-Semitic rhetoric and acts of anti-Semitic violence, Dolinsky notes, it is only because the far right has chosen to focus on perceived “pro-Russian” enemies, like leftists and more vulnerable minorities. Ukraine’s Jews are still on the far right’s list of enemies, says Dolinsky.>“Jews don’t play that important a role; we are not a resource for elections,” says Dolinsky. “But nationalists are. The government knows what they’re doing.”http://archive.today/2022.10.29-085045/https://www.haaretz.com/world-news/europe/2019-02-04/ty-article/.premium/ukraines-far-right-is-increasingly-violent-why-arent-local-jews-concerned/0000017f-e6b3-da9b-a1ff-eeffb6a20000 No.1591631
>>1591591Within a few months of D-Day the German front lines were effectively eradicated and they never really managed to catch any military momentum again. After a months-long secret disinfo campaign to massively disrupt Nazi defensive deployment.
This war hasn't really had any level of strategic sophistication to it aside from I guess Russia trying to catch Ukraine off-guard early on and the US calling it out in January.
No.1591638
>>1591624IMO wagner is just a merc group that found that if you're well-equipped and well-organized enough,with enough state backing to ask for an airstrike here and there, you can take on the west's bullies and make a pretty penny out of it. I don't think a more complicated explanation is really needed.
No.1591649
>>1591638oh i agree, and reading into it more than that in terms of politics is pretty silly. but merc groups are notoriously and for obvious reasons full of people who fetishize fascist aesthetics, wasnt sure if people were denying that at all as far as the doubting utkin really had the tattoos or more obviously why the name wagner was chosen. its not relevant ultimately so why deny it
No.1591672
>>1591631Yeah, comparing it to DDay is pure cope. The circumstances are completely different.
"Any day now! They'll break through any day now! Just a few more missiles! Just a few more tanks! Slava Ukraini! Putler must be defeated!"
No.1591679
>>1591521
The faces are different
No.1591680
>>1591672>The circumstances are completely differentNot the least of which is the fact that by 1944 the Wehrmacht was inferior to the Allied armies in virtually every way, and was able to sustain less attrition. Here the situation is reversed. This has way more in common with the German 1918 spring offensive, or their attack on Kursk. They're locked in a war of attrition that they will definitely lose unless they can break the stalemate, but their offensive simply hasn't produced the necessary results to achieve that.
No.1591684
>>1591682
>Crazy than the Russian black fleet was saves on the whims of a billionaire.
That's a big if regarding Ukrainian military capability.
No.1591685
>>1591681So this is the power of the West.
Making huge portions of your military capacity entirely reliant on a single, capricious, schizo billionaire.
No.1591698
>>1591681That's called 'not being retarded enough to risk a global escalation', Musk is more aware about the self-destructive nature of capitalism than any MIC crook.
Also his intentions of getting Russian technological cooperation regarding spaceships.
No.1591702
>>1591698I'm sure Musk also sympathises with Russia because they're 'based traditionalists'
No.1591705
>>1591702He's sympathizing with Russia because of Twitter shit. That's basically it.
No.1591707
>>1591698>Also his intentions of getting Russian technological cooperation regarding spaceships.Russia's space industry is cruising on the remnants of soviet era tech and they can't even do it right. I don't think they have much to share that SpaceX didn't already invent and master or can get from the US. Raptor and Starship are already ahead of anything the USSR space engineers cooked up. But maybe things relating to space station ops and EVA suits I guess?
No.1591708
>>1591705I mean Musk's own trans daughter has disowned him so I'm 100% sure that he is fully bought into the idea that he needs to save the West from degeneracy
No.1591710
>>1591705He also probably doesn't want to sour his relations with Russia to impede with potential future business with Russia companies and the like.
No.1591711
>US government bans American companies from doing business in Crimea
>Starlink doesnt operate in Crimea as a result
>Hohols try to launch attack using starlink and it fails once it enters Crimea
>Hohols cry that Elon is deliberately sabotaging them
Defeated by red tape!
No.1591720
>>1591110I wish I had that pick of Azov using the baby armor
No.1591721
>>1591707>Russia's space industry is cruising on the remnants of soviet era tech and they can't even do it right. I don't think they have much to share that SpaceX didn't already invent and master or can get from the USSoyuz rockets have piled decades of improvement in cargo-lifting, saying without irony that Russia's still using USSR tech is cope.
>Raptor and Starship are already ahead of anything the USSR space engineers cooked upThey keep exploding, lma0.
No.1591727
>>1591721The falcon 9b5 launched many times more than the Soyuz-2 and has a higher success rate. So SpaceX stuff is already better and cheaper than the modernized USSR workhorse. Starship is exploding because that's how they get data, they loose a bunch of concrete, steel and relatively cheap prototype engines that are already obsolete and gain lessons on how to proceed further.
No.1591729
>Walter Isaacson is a professor of history at Tulane University, former editor of Time magazine and author of several biographies. This op-ed is excerpted from his latest book, “Elon Musk.”
>By September, however, both Musk and military leaders in Ukraine and the United States were realizing the complexity of their relationship. One Friday evening that month, just after spending a week with Musk, I was back home in New Orleans watching a football game at my old high school. (The occasion was that it was one of the final games for the school’s superstar quarterback, Arch Manning.) My phone started vibrating with messages from Musk.
>“This could be a giant disaster,” he texted. I went behind the bleachers to ask him what the problem was. He was in full Muskian crisis-hero-drama mode, this time understandably. A dangerous issue had arisen, and he believed there was “a non-trivial possibility,” as he put it, that it could lead to a nuclear war — with Starlink partly responsible. The Ukrainian military was attempting a sneak attack on the Russian naval fleet based at Sevastopol in Crimea by sending six small drone submarines packed with explosives, and it was using Starlink to guide them to the target.
>Although he had readily supported Ukraine, he believed it was reckless for Ukraine to launch an attack on Crimea, which Russia had annexed in 2014. He had just spoken to the Russian ambassador to the United States. (In later conversations with a few other people, he seemed to imply that he had spoken directly to President Vladimir Putin, but to me he said his communications had gone through the ambassador.) The ambassador had explicitly told him that a Ukrainian attack on Crimea would lead to a nuclear response. Musk explained to me in great detail, as I stood behind the bleachers, the Russian laws and doctrines that decreed such a response.
>Throughout the evening and into the night, he personally took charge of the situation. Allowing the use of Starlink for the attack, he concluded, could be a disaster for the world. So he secretly told his engineers to turn off coverage within 100 kilometers of the Crimean coast. As a result, when the Ukrainian drone subs got near the Russian fleet in Sevastopol, they lost connectivity and washed ashore harmlessly.
>When the Ukrainian military noticed that Starlink was disabled in and around Crimea, Musk got frantic calls and texts asking him to turn the coverage back on. Fedorov, the deputy prime minister who had originally enlisted his help, secretly shared with him the details of how the drone subs were crucial to their fight for freedom. “We made the sea drones ourselves, they can destroy any cruiser or submarine,” he texted using an encrypted app. “I did not share this information with anyone. I just want you — the person who is changing the world through technology — to know this.”
>Musk replied that the design of the drones was impressive, but he refused to turn the coverage for Crimea back on, arguing that Ukraine “is now going too far and inviting strategic defeat.” He discussed the situation with President Biden’s national security adviser, Jake Sullivan, and chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Mark A. Milley, explaining to them that he did not wish Starlink to be used for offensive purposes. He also called the Russian ambassador to assure him that Starlink was being used for defensive purposes only. “If the Ukrainian attacks had succeeded in sinking the Russian fleet, it would have been like a mini Pearl Harbor and led to a major escalation,” Musk says. “We did not want to be a part of that.”
>He took it upon himself to help find an end to the war in Ukraine, proposing a peace plan that included new referendums in Donbas and other Russian-controlled regions, accepting that Crimea was a part of Russia and assuring that Ukraine remained a “neutral” nation rather than becoming part of NATO. It provoked an uproar. “F— off is my very diplomatic reply to you,” said Ukraine’s ambassador to Germany. Zelensky was a bit more cautious. He posted a poll on Twitter asking users which Musk they liked better: “One who supports Ukraine” or “One who supports Russia.”
>Musk backed down a bit. “SpaceX’s out of pocket cost to enable and support Starlink in Ukraine is ~$80M so far,” he wrote in response to Zelensky’s question. “Our support for Russia is $0. Obviously, we are pro Ukraine.” But then he added, “Trying to retake Crimea will cause massive death, probably fail and risk nuclear war. This would be terrible for Ukraine and Earth.”
>In early October, Musk extended his restrictions on the use of Starlink for offensive operations by disabling some of its coverage in the Russian-controlled regions of southern and eastern Ukraine. This resulted in another flurry of calls and highlighted the outsize role that Starlink was playing. Neither Ukraine nor the United States had been able to find any other communication systems that could match Starlink or fend off attacks from Russian hackers. Feeling unappreciated, he suggested that SpaceX was no longer willing to bear some of the financial burden.
>Shotwell, president of SpaceX, also felt strongly that the company should stop subsidizing the Ukrainian military operation. Providing humanitarian help was fine, but private companies should not be financing a foreign country’s war. That should be left to the government, which is why the United States has a foreign military sales program that puts a layer of protection between private companies and foreign governments. Other companies, including big and profitable defense contractors, were charging billions to supply weapons to Ukraine, so it seemed unfair that Starlink, which was not yet profitable, should do it for free
>“We initially gave the Ukrainians free service for humanitarian and defense purposes, such as keeping up their hospitals and banking systems,” she says. “But then they started putting them on f—ing drones trying to blow up Russian ships. I’m happy to donate services for ambulances and hospitals and mothers. That’s what companies and people should do. But it’s wrong to pay for military drone strikes.”
>Ukraine deputy prime minister, Mykhailo Fedorov tried to smooth things over by sending Musk encrypted text messages lavishing him with thanks. “Not everyone understands your contribution to Ukraine. I am confident that without Starlinks, we would be unable to function successfully. Thanks again.”
>Fedorov said he understood Musk’s position of not allowing Starlink service to be used for attacks in Crimea. But he pushed Musk to allow Ukraine to use the service to fight in the Russian-controlled regions in the south and east. That led to an amazingly candid secret encrypted exchange:
>Fedorov: The exclusion of these territories is absolutely unfair. I come from Vasylivka village in Zaporizhzhia region, my parents and friends live there. Now this village is occupied by Russian troops, and there is complete lawlessness and outrage—the residents are impatiently waiting for liberation. . . . At the end of September, we noticed that Starlink does not work in the liberated villages, which makes it impossible to restore the critical infrastructure of these territories. For us it is a matter of life and death.
>Musk: Once Russia is fully mobilized, they will destroy all infrastructure throughout Ukraine and push far past the current territories. NATO will have to intervene to prevent all of Ukraine falling to Russia. At that point, risk of WW3 becomes very high.
>Fedorov: Mobilization in Russia can lead to the overthrow of Putin. This is not a war of Russian people and they don’t want to go to Ukraine.
>Musk: Russia will stop at nothing, nothing, to hold Crimea. This poses catastrophic risk to the world. . . . Seek peace while you have the upper hand. . . . Let’s discuss this. [Musk included his new private cell phone number.] I will support any pragmatic path to peace that serves the greater good for all of humanity.
>Fedorov: I understand. We look through the eyes of Ukrainians, and you from the position of a person who wants to save humanity. And not just wants, but does more than anybody else for this.
>After his exchange with Fedorov, Musk felt frustrated. “How am I in this war?” he asked me during a late-night phone conversation. “Starlink was not meant to be involved in wars. It was so people can watch Netflix and chill and get online for school and do good peaceful things, not drone strikes.”
>In the end, with Shotwell’s help, SpaceX made arrangements with various government agencies to pay for increased Starlink service in Ukraine, with the military and CIA working out the terms of service. More than 100,000 new satellite dishes were sent to Ukraine at the beginning of 2023. In addition, Starlink launched a companion service called Starshield, which was specifically designed for military use. SpaceX licensed Starshield satellites and services to the U.S. military and other agencies, allowing the government to determine how they could and should be used in Ukraine and elsewhere.https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2023/09/07/elon-musk-starlink-ukraine-russia-invasion/There is more in article this is just key parts
No.1591732
>>1591727>So SpaceX stuff is already better and cheaper than the modernized USSR workhorseIt's more expensive than the fucking Space Shuttle was
>Starship is exploding because that's how they get data, they loose a bunch of concrete, steel and relatively cheap prototype engines that are already obsolete and gain lessons on how to proceed further.L O L
No.1591733
>>1591729>Fedorov: Mobilization in Russia can lead to the overthrow of Putin. Amazing
No.1591737
>>1591736based korea making it on the list
No.1591738
>>1591736Funny that you just completely switched goalposts.
No.1591740
>>1591727>So SpaceX stuff is already better and cheaper than the modernized USSR workhorseYou can thank that to American taxpayers.
And
>>1591736 confirms your cope, SpaceX isn't making any relevant breakthrough compared to Russia and China, even India managed a moon-mission as of recent.
No.1591755
>>1591681I do not believe this for a second. Musk is a US government contractor, there is no way he ever goes against orders. I'd rather believe this is a PR maneuver to distance the based retard (and his enterprises) from Ukraine's failures, just as the rest of the NATO establishment is doing.
No.1591761
Something about SpaceX reminds me of Air America crossed with I.G. Farben.
No.1591762
>>1591755i get the impression musk is on the intelligence agency shitlist with spacex getting sued
No.1591776
>>1591740>SpaceX isn't making any relevant breakthrough compared to RussiaWhere does Russia makes breakthrough? They crashed on the moon and crashed on Ukrainian defenses. Meanwhile SpaceX launched a mission that redirected an asteroid and will launch a probe to Europa soon.
No.1591844
>>1591776NTA, but personally I couldn't care less about any space race. AFAIC it's a thinly veiled promotion of military technology and an international dick measuring contest. It was last cold war and it will be this one.
Other cold war spectacle things I don't care for:
-Aliens
-Hypothetical superweapons
-X scares
-Arms races
-Paranormal research in the name of above
-Supersoldier myths
-Drug based counterculture
No.1591863
>>1591854Literally all of that shit is true and proven. This person is an actual acamedic and expert who has drawn those conclusions from looking at the evidence and who has never had any shady connection to Russia or ideology axe to grind. This is someone who has put their academic career on the line despite having absolutely no incentive to do so apart from their own academic integrity.
No.1591867
>>1591728this certainly never stopped amerikkka in afghanistan
No.1591874
>>1591863He also says Ukraine didn't want to fulfill the Minsk agreements, which were about understandable autonomy for Donbass, and that the US enabled this by instead deciding Ukraine will join NATO, which the Biden administration set in motion within his first year in office so as to cause this war. Sachs talks about how he begged the White House in December 2021 to stop expanding NATO and stick to Minsk. Keep in mind this aligns with 30 years previous when he observed Yeltsin declaring in front of him the end of the USSR. That's quite the start to finish, a total inversion that hints at who is driving the war.
He also says the US stopped negotiations in March 2022 because the US feared looking weak to China, the true target, and that after this failed counter offensive the war is only going on because of Biden's 2024 election and Zelensky going all in on the war.
No.1591876
nu bread
>>1591875
No.1591877
>>1591863But yea, I have no doubt Sachs has isolated himself by coming out like this. I think I've seen him remark on this before. You can pretty much see that he just can't hide how much he hates US policy towards Russia and sees it as a missed opportunity due to unipolar hubris
No.1591885
>>1591877see my response in the new thread
No.1591948
>>1591854it's not his fault that reality has a z bias.
>>1591755don't believe it either. the current push in the us is to push for a frozen conflict now that ukraine can't win. this plays into that:
>ukraine could have sunk the whole russian fleet if only that damned elon moskal didn't sabotage them!point being: ukraine is being held back and could do much worse if we let them, so you should probably agree to freeze the conflict like we now want (and like elon suggests).
No.1591987
>>1591732Actually, practical testing was how the soviets did and chinese do it. Much more effective than sitting around doing completely theoretical space missions.
No.1592070
>>1591711NOT BY BOOTS BUT BY SUI… tape!?
No.1592093
>>1591948>elon moskalYou smooth bastard
No.1593288
>you should support russia (a fascist dicatorship) because they're fighting ukraine (who has some facists in it). How about no? it's weird how westoids are so obsessed with america they'll support anyone who isn't america with zero critical thought of their own
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