No.1601981[Last 50 Posts]
>Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said his government had "credible allegations" linking Indian agents to the slaying of the exiled Sikh leader, Hardeep Singh Nijjar.
>Canada on Monday (Sep 18) accused India's
government of involvement in the killing of a Canadian Sikh leader near Vancouver last June, prompting tit-for-tat diplomatic expulsions after New Delhi rejected the charge as "absurd".
>The accusations sent already sour relations between Ottawa and New Delhi to a dramatic new low.
>Prime Minister Justin Trudeau told an emergency parliamentary session that his government had "credible allegations" linking Indian agents to the June slaying of exiled Sikh leader Hardeep Singh Nijjar in British Columbia.
>"The involvement of any foreign government in the murder of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil is an unacceptable violation of our sovereignty," Trudeau said.
>He called "in the strongest possible terms" on the Indian government to cooperate in clearing up the matter.
>Foreign Minister Melanie Joly said the Trudeau government had taken immediate action.
>"Today we have expelled a senior Indian diplomat from Canada," she said, without naming the official.
>Joly said the expelled Indian is the head of the Research and Analysis Wing (RAW), India's foreign intelligence agency, in Canada.
>India's foreign ministry on Tuesday rejected claims of involvement in Nijjar's death and said it had ordered an unnamed senior Canadian diplomat to leave the country within five days.
>"Allegations of government of India's involvement in any act of violence in Canada are absurd," the ministry said in a statement, adding: "We are a democratic polity with a strong commitment to rule of law."
>It said Trudeau - who visited New Delhi this month for the G20 summit - had already made similar allegations to his Indian counterpart Narendra Modi, and that they had been "completely rejected".
>The ministry's decision to expel a Canadian diplomat reflected its "growing concern at the interference of Canadian diplomats in our internal matters and their involvement in anti-India activities", it added.
>Nijjar, whom India had declared a wanted terrorist, was gunned down on Jun 18 in Surrey, a suburb of Vancouver that is home to a large Sikh community.
>Canada has the largest population of Sikhs globally outside of India.
>Nijjar advocated for the creation of an independent Sikh state to be carved out of parts of northern India and perhaps part of Pakistan.
>New Delhi had accused Nijjar of carrying out terrorist attacks in India, a charge he denied.
>Tensions between India and Canada have been simmering over the unsolved slaying and Indian unhappiness over how Ottawa has handled right-wing Sikh separatists.
>A former adviser to Trudeau, Jocelyn Coulon, asserted that Canada's accusation would have "the effect of a bomb around the world."
>India will join "the group of nations that assassinate political opponents" abroad, much as Saudi Arabia orchestrated the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Turkey in 2018, said Coulon, who is now an independent researcher.
>Tensions between the two nations flared during the G20 summit.
>Modi expressed "strong concerns about continuing anti-India activities of extremist elements in Canada" during a meeting with Trudeau, according to an Indian government statement.
>India has often complained about activities of the Sikh diaspora abroad, particularly in Canada, which New Delhi believes could revive a Sikh separatist movement.
>The Indian state of Punjab, which is 58 per cent Sikh and 39 per cent Hindu, was rocked by a violent separatist movement in the 1980s and early 1990s, in which thousands died.
>Canada also recently suspended negotiations for a free-trade agreement with India.
>Trudeau later told the media that Canada would always defend "freedom of expression, freedom of conscience and freedom of peaceful protest" while acting against hatred.https://www.channelnewsasia.com/asia/india-dismiss-canada-accusation-sikh-separatist-leader-murder-absurd-3781491
A thread died for this
This is an important event. Both countries as of now have expelled their diplomats and this is only day 1 of it.
Important how? Are they going to go to war? Or will Maupin or someone else give le ebin rundown on how Canada isn’t multipolar?
more important than the /ukraine/ threads
Two meme countries hate each other. Wow, surely deserving of its own topic.
India will never be a part of the Global Libtard garden.
The West was hoping to use India to damage Chyna-bad while reserving the option to balkanize India and gain control over the smaller states.
the west heard the phrase "you can't have your cake and eat it too" and took it as a challenge
I dislike in general coming to conclusions based on fake IC leaks. Governments lie using this pretext all the time. But this is a severe and highly inconvenient thing to go public with.
However, man, Indians on the net really seem to support the idea that they should be allowed to kill anyone anywhere they want.
What a weird thing to say, as if nothing is significant unless it results in war. Like nothing that happened in the Ukraine for 10 years mattered until the tanks rolled in.
The G7 has been puffing India up almost comically. They've been kissing ass, sucking cock, doing everything they can to big up India and position it as "the leader of the global south" in preparation for the China war. So this is an insane and problematic thing for them if Indian intelligence is just assassinating people in Canada (and likely also in the UK) since it's one of those things that they can't completely overlook even if they want to. The US has been silent on this so I suspect they are doing everything they can to patch things up.
It's worth noting whatever happens with his because this world normally be a defining event that blows up bilateral diplomacy and stains a country's image for years to come. If it doesn't, well, it shows how desperate the west really is.
Im pretty skeptical but also wouldnt shocked if its legit. Canada is in a rough state atm, even moreso the Liberal party, and Indians make up a big percentage of our immigrants. Since the housing crisis has been acknowledged as such by the mainstream media, immigrants have been thrown under the bus with greater and greater frequency and I cant help but see this as a drastic stepping up of that operation. granted, thats my conspiracy minded brain at work again but what Im getting at (say the line bart!) is that this could be a psyop
On a unrelated note while I do think indian nationalists are sus and no doubt India is a prison of nations, im hesitant to side with separatists in a developing country from the comfort of a first world nation, particularly one with unsettled independence movements of its own; vive le quebec libre amirite. At the very least I need more info and I cant promise Ill ever bother to seek it out
lol, modis hindutva party is just another zero-theory reactionary government which operates with hindu exceptionalism as its guiding philosophy. you want a secular, multipolar india? modis party aint it. get someone in power who wants to unite the diverse states of india, not one who wishes to develop in spite of them. otherwise the dragging down of the subcontinent due to tired old ethnonationalist violence will not end
Tbh I ordinarily would have suspected that this was part of an effort to begin a diplomatic isolation of India, presumably based on some notion that it wasn't possible to sever them from the rest of BRICS or bring them firmly into the Western camp vis a vis China and Russia. However the fact that the US hasn't joined in leads me to believe that Trudeau may genuinely be acting on principle, that is to say being retarded. Maybe he's trying to improve his reputation with voters by beating his chest and asserting Canadian sovereignty against a scary foreign power, but the next election is like two years away and there are millions of Indian-origin Canadian voters that he might piss off, so idk how he's expecting that to work.
So does Canada's accusation hold any weight against India? Is there any evidence the Indian government was responsible for the assasination?
Neoliberal infighting is always good.
>>1602081>what a weird thing to say
Not at all + not reading the rest of your post
The times are getting interestinger and interestinger.
As the unipolar order dissolves, we can expect more incidents like this, where different factions stop respecting each others' sovereignty (not to imply western powers ever respected the sovereignty of the rest of the world). India getting away with this (which they will, whether or not they actually did it) will be a precedent. The splintering factions of capital are going to eat each other in a bloody cannibalistic orgy of all against all, and the workers will need to pick up the pieces and salvage whatever survives in order to build communism.>>1602520>Neoliberal infighting is always good.
This.>>1602034>Two meme countries
Diet Burgertown and a core BRICS member aren't meme countries.>>1601988
If you loved that thread so much why didn't you bump it from the bottom of the index?>>1602490
Biden bows to BRICS.
This was bad idea for Canada I think. Millions of people including myself had no idea what sikh separatism was and now we are learning about it. India is happy we are learning what it is too I'm sure.
complete shit for brains. as if we dont have at least 4 bait threads up at the moment>>1601981>>India will join "the group of nations that assassinate political opponents" abroad, much as Saudi Arabia orchestrated the murder of journalist Jamal Khashoggi in Turkey in 2018, said Coulon, who is now an independent researcher.
lmao yeah, when i think of "nations that assassinate political opponents abroad" my first thought is "saudi arabia"
anyway interested to see what the fallout of this will be. the story will almost certainly fizzle out within the week, but theres still a significant precedent to be determined here
Zionist levels of self-victimisation
Bloody bastard bitch Canadians
If this a real quote from the show or just a meme lol?
meme, its a good show tho first couple seasons at least are worth watching
the hindutva government/politicos are close with russia but seem to be jingoist towards the prc
which is a funny geopolitical situation relative to the "west"
Emperor Xi the Canadian people yearn for freedom from the imperialistic brahmins.
Isn't Canada already India 2.0?
This is turning into a coming out party for the West in a way. Yeah, Modi is a fascist, and India is aligned and transformed with him. But they aren’t Chinese, and we hate the Chinese. Why? Well, we do. Duh.
Bahrat has a long dream of massive territorial expansion which includes destroying Pakistan and conquering Tibet. Like this is an inevitable trajectory and the West needs to choose between supporting fascist Bahrat in its conquest or supporting China against her. And they made the choice already, years and years ago.
The default hostility that leftypol has to the creation of absolutely any new thread is the most irritating and also most absurd aspect of the shitty culture of this website
You may not know this, but not all Indians are Hindus! And you may not know this, but Modi’s party is a fascist Hindu party! And you may not know this, but Canada has the largest Sikh population in the world outside of India! And you may not know this, but there are credible reasons to believe that Modi’s fascist Hindu party killed, from within Canada, a Sikh political activist who was a citizen of Canada!
>>1603017>anyway interested to see what the fallout of this will be. the story will almost certainly fizzle out within the week, but theres still a significant precedent to be determined here
The precedent is of course that Canada (and the UK and Australian, Japan and New Zealand) are effectively killing fields for Indian spooks. Modi will also of course have unlimited diplomatic space to transform and expand fascistic terror domestically while receiving substantial foreign backing.
>>1603363>a Sikh political activist
He was the leader in his area of an ethnic separatist of a group that has committed terrorist acts and wanted for years for plots to kill a priest. It's like he was part of the DSA or some food bank group. Call it what it is. If you support that group that is fine but don't make it sound so angelic and kind
With all this said you can doubt all the above information or call it bullshit but recognize he wasn't some peace activist
It's not like he was part of the DSA of some food bank*;
Why do you have to support them? He’s just living Canada and India assassinated him because they could. Lol:
I notice this kind of crap doesn’t apply to China frowning at Canada which requires a complete cleaving of relations.
>>1602509>However the fact that the US hasn't joined in leads me to believe that Trudeau may genuinely be acting on principle, that is to say being retarded.
There's public diplomacy and then private stuff that you don't see. Biden would probably step on Trudeau's toes if he said anything publicly, or that allows the U.S. to function as a mediator.
>but the next election is like two years away and there are millions of Indian-origin Canadian voters that he might piss off, so idk how he's expecting that to work.
Many of them are Sikhs who comprise around 2% of the Canadian population, it's the largest Sikh community in the world outside Punjab. Trudeau's defense minister is Sikh.>>1602516>So does Canada's accusation hold any weight against India? Is there any evidence the Indian government was responsible for the assasination?
I dunno but I believe it. FWIW, there are Sikh groups in Canada that were screaming bloody murder about this before Trudeau. The killing seems like a breaking point but beef between them and the Indian government go back a long time. I was trying to learn more about it, and my sense is that this guy was a separatist and "he was no angel," but a lot of Sikhs feel like they're treated the same as him by the Indian government even if they're just civil rights activists who get extrajudicially killed in India by some right-wing mobsters. There are some of these groups in Canada (including World Sikh Organization and National Council of Canadian Muslims) that build dossiers on the Indian government and its role in influencing Canadian politics and through fascist organizations like the RSS:https://www.panthpunjab.com/p/confronting-indian-foreign-interference
Political activism is not my idea of angelic behavior. You’re a hair splitting kweer
>>1603389>There's public diplomacy and then private stuff that you don't see. Biden would probably step on Trudeau's toes if he said anything publicly, or that allows the U.S. to function as a mediator.
The U.S. is being as public as it can telling Canada to shut the fuck up and let Bahrat carry out whatever kind of murder it wants to. Canada is a junior partner in the war on China. It’s less important and more Junior than India. It doesn’t get to decide important things like this.
I'm really not startled by this even if India did it. The usa has openly killed countless people they label "terrorist" in foreign countries land and people carry on with their day like it is nothing. Then with this or khashoggi who was 1 person each western media has enormous freak outs like it is an unprecedented event wringing their hands in panic. The wall to wall coverage of this everyday is so inorganic
Not even doing "whataboutism" here I know all here condemn when usa does this, the general populace though hardly cares when they do it countless times however and doesn't see as some earth shaking event
How does this make India fascist?
why come the wordfilter not working my nijjars?
India seems too big, complex and chaotic to impose that kind of uniformity, but Modi has a powerful fascist movement behind him that's responsible for a lot of violence (Saffron terror), introducing Hindu rituals into government ceremonies, and idealizing feudal raja-praja kingdoms. There have been repressions targeting communists. Indian communists have been warning about this for years, but more along the lines of a trajectory in Indian politics than a naked terrorist dictatorship, but with definite forces in the government who want to build a "rabidly intolerant fascistic Hindu Rashtra."
This is Sitaram Yechury the other day:
>As India approaches the 75th anniversary of the constitutional republic (2025), the Hindutva narrative is being aggressively scripted to metamorphose the secular democratic character of the republic into a fascistic Hindutva rashtra. The prerequisite for this is to ensure that the Modi led BJP government wins the 2024 elections, by hook or by crook. Control of the government and State power by the RSS/BJP is most crucial to achieve this metamorphosis.
>This metamorphosis is sought to be realised through a variety of sub-narratives through campaigns claiming India be the ‘mother of democracy’; rewriting Indian history to erase its multiculturalism and syncretic civilizational ethos; spreading poisonous campaigns of hate and violence against the religious minorities particularly, the Muslims etc. These sub-narratives are integral to the fascistic project and constitute cogs in the Hindutva wheel.
>The latest among such sub-narratives are the campaigns centered round a Uniform Civil Code; replacing India with Bharat as the name of our country; one nation-one election corresponding to one nation-one culture-one language etc. Irrespective of the realisation or materialisation of such narratives the focus is on creating a mindset bolstering the Hindutva narrative.https://www.peoplesdemocracy.in/2023/0917_pd/different-cogs-fascistic-hindutva-wheel
From a few years ago:
>"What we are having in the country today is not yet fascism. Fascism means replacement of parliament democracy by a naked terrorist dictatorship. We have not yet allowed them to jettison parliamentary democracy. But efforts are on to jettison democracy," he said, pointing to the imposition of President's Rule in Uttarakhand. "It is not that we wait for fascism to arrive and then fight because there will be very few to fight," he said.
>"Fascism will succeed only if they succeed to replace Indian history with Hindu mythology, replace Indian philosophy by Hindu theocracy. That is why building up intellectual resistance holds significance. It's the battle of reason against unreason. We need to strengthen reason so that it triumphs over the unreason," he added.
Also an article in Foreign Affairs, an American magazine, about the violence in Manipur:
>Over the last four months, ethnic violence between Manipur’s largest community, the Meiteis, and its largest minority, the Kukis, has killed hundreds of people and rendered 60,000 people homeless. Mobs have set fire to over 350 churches and vandalized over a dozen temples. They have burned more than 200 villages.
>But although Hindu nationalism has been around for decades, the movement has amassed more power than it ever has before. Manipur provides an insight into how. In theory, the state should be unfavorable terrain for Hindu supremacists. Its Meitei majority does not traditionally identify as Hindu; they have instead followed an animistic faith, one with its own beliefs and traditions. The community’s language is not Hindi, nor is it one of Hindi’s cousins. In fact, until the late 1990s, the Meitei nationalist movement sought independence from India. Meitei organizations should, if anything, oppose Hindu nationalists ruling the country.
>But the BJP and the RSS have worked to get ethnic groups that form the majority in their own states to join their cause (except when they are Muslims), arguing that these groups deserve to dominate their regions—just as Hindus should dominate India overall. Sometimes, the BJP and RSS even try to amalgamate smaller communities of animistic faiths into the Hindu tradition. Their message does not always land, but in Manipur, it appears to have done so. Many Meiteis now say they are Hindus, and the community’s nationalists identify as part of the BJP’s program. They believe that they are the original inhabitants of the Manipur—the sons of the soil—and that Kukis are illegal immigrants from Myanmar. Their argument mirrors the one made everywhere by the RSS, which claims that Hindus are the original inhabitants of India whereas Muslims and Christians are outsiders.
>The state’s chief minister, Nongthombam Biren Singh, has fashioned himself accordingly. Once a pluralist politician from the Indian National Congress—the main opposition party—Singh joined the BJP in 2017 and has positioned himself as a Meitei partisan since 2022. He won Manipur’s state elections again for the BJP, and he has been leading the charge against the Kukis. In the months before the conflict began, he adopted a policy of arbitrarily evicting Kuki villages under the pretense of protecting forests. Beginning in February, his government began checking the biometric details of people living in Kuki-dominated hill districts in order to identify “illegal immigrants.” In March, he blamed “illegal immigrants from Myanmar” engaged in the “drug business” for protests against the state’s efforts to evict Kukis from their villages. And in April, he told an RSS-controlled newspaper that “foreigner Kuki immigrants have taken control of the social, political, and economic affairs of the native tribal people of the state.”
>Singh’s policies and rhetoric are squarely at odds with the Indian constitution, which was designed to safeguard marginalized groups. The document affords all of the country’s indigenous minorities—including the Kukis—special protections to secure their land, language, and culture. But under Modi, those protections are falling apart. After winning reelection in 2019, Modi’s government quickly stripped Jammu and Kashmir, India’s only Muslim-majority state, of its constitutionally enshrined protections. He then split the state in two and downgraded the resulting components from states into federally controlled territories. Anticipating widespread unrest, Modi deployed vast numbers of troops into what was already a militarized region and shut off the area’s Internet. It was a brutal response, and one that sent a message to other protected groups.
>But even though both sides have resorted to violence, it is clear that tribes have borne the brunt of the carnage. Kuki women have been raped and subjected to other forms sexual violence. Indian soldiers have done little to arrest armed Meitei men. Manipur’s police have done almost nothing while Meitei groups ransacked their armories. Since the conflict started, mobs have taken more than 4,900 weapons and 600,000 rounds of ammunition—including mortars, machine guns, and AK-47s—from Manipur’s stockpiles. Almost 90 percent of these weapons have been taken by Meitei militias.https://archive.ph/o8fOa
lol on national TV, India/Bharat flaunting it.
Time to see what Crooked Joe Biden does.
Indians are blasting it all over social media. I did a twitter search and found numerous tweets already about him with over 5,000 likes but so far no news out of Canada confirming his death. Dozens of Indian outlets are reporting it though if you Google his name
I also think that if this guy really did India is learning from last guy where the west got ahead of narrative making sympathetic story. If they flood the internet with guy being bad guy (he probably is) then they can control the story
It's harder to convince people to change their minds once you hand implanted information in their mind
this is why the alliance with fascist Bahrat against China is guaranteed. It’s not so much that these arguments are compelling but people don’t want to have to argue about it in English. If we actually had to argue with Chinese people about whether or not they should be allowed to have computers or whatever we wouldn’t lay on these sanctions and expel these diolomats. But USians don’t have to argue why China Bad because Everyone Knows and Chinese don’t speak English. They have to actually argue with Indians and learn about India and all this shit so they will just partner with them because it’s too much trouble and who cares who the war is with anyway.
They just love killing. They aren’t getting ahead of a story or whatever. They saw the first guy was killed and they got the sign that it was okay and so why not? They love killing these people.
Maybe. I still think public support matters and countries care about it. There is a reason they spend millions of dollars to propagandize with media every year.
By the way this is the RAW’s MO. They just pay off other groups to assassinate their targets. That’s probably why Canada won’t release evidence. It’s almost certainly some probably illegally obtained paper train of payments.
India has been selected as a vital counterweight to China and vital to its containment. After the G20 Modi has no concern whatsoever about a need to do PR. As long as the US is commuted to the China War (and they are for at least one lifetime). He’s indispensable. Canada is disposable.
Yeah it is seeming to me like you are right.
Also this was posted an hour ago by Indian outlet https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-news/india-suspends-visa-services-for-canadians-amid-heightened-tensions-101695274291842.html
India-Canada news LIVE updates: New Delhi suspends visa services for Canadians amid heightened tensions
New Delhi has suspended visa services for Canadian nationals indefinitely amid heightened tensions between the two countries even as Ottawa said it was temporarily adjusting staff presence in India to ensure the safety of diplomats following threats received on social media.
Prime Minister Justin Trudeau’s allegation of Indian involvement in Khalistani leader Hardeep Singh Nijjar’s killing heightened the tensions and triggered a diplomatic row, and tit-for-tat expulsions of senior diplomats this week.
No formal announcement of the suspension of visa services was made even as BLS International, which runs the visa application centres in Canada, posted a message on its Canadian website in this regard.
“Important notice from the Indian Mission: Due to operational reasons, with effect from 21st September 2023 [Thursday], Indian visa services have been suspended till further notice.”
An Indian official confirmed the suspension but refused to comment further. “The language is clear and it says what it is intended to say.” This is the first time India has suspended visas since the Covid-19 pandemic.
Look into Hindutva for, like, a minute.
How close is India to civil war? Because none of this "counterweight to China" shit is going to go how either BJP or USA think it will go.
What are the chances of a double-pole civil war both in India and the US at the same time wreking the world?
History will repeat - the second great patriotic war will be Communist China vs Fascist Bharat.
And maybe, just maybe, some of those people will see the connection between sikh separatism and east turkistan separatism and why both are retarded and deserving of being labelled terrorists by their respective governments
so, in canada there's been this ongoing situation where a formal inquiry into foreign interference has been slowly but surely building support, and it is only a matter of when and how it takes shape. This idea was developed in response to the vulgar, wall-to-wall smearing of china earlier this year, with the official scope of the inquiry involving possible election meddling in a couple irrelevant MP seats somewhere in ontario (last i read, the claims involved something like 10 or 12 anonymous whatsapp accounts saying mean things about michael chong, which, if this is the extent of justification needed for a nation-wide public inquiry, is an astonishingly low threshold to breach, but i digress).
Anyways, the actual point of my post: i saw on the news yesterday that the former head of CSIS (the intelligence agency behind the so-called evidence leading to both the election meddling and india-murder allegations) was explaining how the Indian government murdering a canadian citizen on canadian soil did not constitute foreign interference and should not be included in the formal inquiry whenever it happens, only the claims against chinas election meddling. I wanted to ask the users of leftypol if im taking crazy pills or if theres some merit to his claims.
>>1603904>I wanted to ask the users of leftypol if im taking crazy pills or if theres some merit to his claims.
He's a glowie Anon, what do you think? Some extremely flimsy accusations that even if true would be insignificant, vs the extrajudicial murder of a Canadian citizen by a foreign government on our own soil. Which is a more serious violation of our sovereignty? Even if the allegations against China are true, they didn't do anything that US based corporations aren't already doing.
Sikh separatism is valid doe
>>1603372>to kill a priest
killing Hindu priests is valid.
The fascists stick together.
>>1603993>nations that are enemies to imperialism>india
you are confused>>1603984
i know you have a balkanization fetish but in reality many ethnic and sectarian movements for regional independence are at least reactionary in leadership if not in content, and a powerful militant regional seperatist movement in india could easily become a biafran war situation. this is not me shilling for the indian state or apologizing for the fascist BJP or minimizing the repression of indian minorities, im just saying that reality is not a mapgame and those are very bloody consequences
If a big fascist movement is trying to ethnically cleanse its territory of ethnic or religious minorities, I support the right of those minorities to break off from that territory and form their own sovereignties. My support of those attempts is independent and a priori of an investigation of the left-right political valence of those attempts.
So for instance, I have no real reason to support catalonia because spanish nationalists are not raping catalan women in the street. Hindu nationalists rape christian and muslim women in the street. I would not be surprised if they soon begin, or already have begun, to rape sikh women in the street. Therefore, I support the right of sikhs, in india or abroad, to organize campaigns to separate from "bharat" as the BJP now wishes that we call India.
Also jainist separatism is valid also
India has no independent future as a bunch of disunited sectarian petty states squabbling amongst themselves. That would be easy pickings for Western (and potentially other) imperialists. Sikhs should be throwing their weight behind a nationwide united front against Modi.
Is the 'independent future' of India a just reason for a father to not do all he can to protect his pre-pubescent daughter from rape at the hands of BJP gangs. I would say it is not. 'Independent future' is a nationalist spook. There are thousands of ways that the future of an independent khalistan could play out. Plenty of those futures involve development. That's what is important. Development, safety, and personal liberty. The nationalist aspirations of the 'indian' (which today just means hindu) people are irrelevant.
>>1604024>There are thousands of ways that the future of an independent khalistan could play out. Plenty of those futures involve development.
Yeah because it worked out so great for the Soviet Union and Yugoslavia right? When has Balkanization of a major power ever produced a good result? Sikh separatism is likely to be a major barrier to cooperation with other anti-Modi forces in the country, and even if every Sikh supported it they're still less than 2% of the population. They don't have the numbers to do this on their own. If I were a Sikh father I would be joining forces with Muslims, Dalits, progressive Hindus, labour and peasant movements etc. to form a common defense against BJP fascism.
The naxals dont seem to care too much about uniting with peaceful modi opposition forces in india to create a better government for the subcontinent.
Also the 7 sister states are ripe for separatism because of the "chicken neck corridor"
So to you the consequences of the hypothetical balkanization of India (a fascist state) is directly comparable to the consequences of the balkanization of socialist yugoslavia and the United Socialist Soviet Republics? To me, those balkanizations were bad because those balkanizations broke the power of the communists and allowed for nationalists to seize the powers of state and wage war against their supposed national enemies. In India the hindus already wield the power of state to wage war against the christians, sikhs, and muslims. Balkanization would just give these minorities the power of state as well. It would give them an even playing field and a chance to fight back.
As for your question, "when Balkanization of a major power ever produced a good result?", it obviously depends on what you call 'balkanization'. All of the decolonial movements after the second world war can be called 'balkanizations' in the sense that the ties between self consciously different peoples were severed. Would you say that it was a bad result for india itself to escape from the rule of westminster? Would you say that it was a bad result for west africa to escape (or at the very least, try to escape) from the rule of Paris? I would say these produced good results. So your argument falls apart. There are historical examples of balkanization yielding good results for the population which splits off. The key factor, in my opinion, is whether or not the country which is being 'balkanized' had been keeping the peace between different nations (as was the case with the yugoslavia and with the USSR) or if that country was savagely exploiting other nations (As the French did with the Africans). India under the rule of the BJP is certainly an example of the latter, not the former.
"The right of peoples to self-determination" is balkanization whenever the country that is balkanizing is one that oppresses its minorities and enforces its control over their territory through imperialist and colonialist control mechanisms.
oh listen i completely acknowledge their right to advocate and fight for independence, especially under those circumstances. whether i personally think its the best strategy doesnt effect that, and its not like i have a better understanding than the people on the ground there. i just resent the hobbyist fetishization of balkanization and independence movements that treats them as a cute flippant thing
The BJP is a pretty openly a hard-right hindu nationalist party.
>>1604033>is directly comparable to the consequences of the balkanization of socialist yugoslavia and the United Socialist Soviet Republics?
Yes, insofar as it would lead to a lot of sectarian/ethnic bloodshed and leave the various states that emerged much weaker and more vulnerable to imperialism.>Balkanization would just give these minorities the power of state as well.
So would a progressive united front that wrests power back from the BJP.>All of the decolonial movements after the second world war can be called 'balkanizations'
I think there's a huge difference between breaking up a colonial empire and breaking up a colonized country. In fact the impetus among anti-colonial movements of that era was generally towards unification of disparate peoples within former colonial borders, precisely because they knew there was strength in unity. The entire project of post-colonial India was meant to be an application of this principle. The same for Indonesia, China, pan-Arabist and pan-African movements, Bolivarianism, etc. By contrast neo-colonial powers often worked to sabotage these efforts at unity and cleave post-colonial states apart, because they knew this would make them easier to dominate. Even if Sikhs and Sikh-majority regions constitute a kind of internal periphery, India as a whole remains subject to neo-colonial exploitation by the West. An independent Sikh state would leave both countries less capable of overcoming this. In other words, separating colonized countries from European empires was a necessary step in achieving their liberation from colonialism, while breaking up colonized states has the opposite effect. Insistence upon sepaeation would also likely prevent Sikhs from working with anti-Modi forces that don't want to see India chopped up. Again, given that Sikhs only constitute 1.7% of the population, toppling Modi seems far more likely than successfully seceding.
Yes I agree. Shah Daniels is a freak and his balkanization fetish is an annoying feature of this forum.
Sikhs are a firm majority in Punjab. Punjab is a geographically coherent territory. Sikhs, as the majority population in punjab, have a good chance of successfully succeeding. If they did not have a good chance, Modi would not have risked this diplomatic crisis to assassinate a political activist for the secessionist movement. The United States, for example, does not assassinate black secessionists>inb4 uhuru
The United States prosecutes uhuru in a public proceeding because uhuru is a threat to the smooth government of the union because uhuru are genuinely believed to be assets of Russia. Whether this is true or not is irrelevant. The fact that it is a genuinely held view of the Deoartment of Justice is reason enough to prove that the prosecution of uhuru is not motivated by their secessionist talk. The United States no longer sees black secessionists as having any chance of success and therefore it no longer does extrajudicial killings of black secessionists. MIDI knows that the Sikh secessionists may succeed, and because this threat is significant, he is willing to assassinate Sikh secessionists in Canada.
United States killed plenty of black activist
>>1604150>When asked if Canada will reciprocate visa bans also avoids and he says they are not going to release the evidence to public
Never going to happen, Canada needs all that sweet juicy cheap labour and massively inflated student fees. Without the US backing him on this he has literally no leverage.
Go to 3:10 in video and go from there. That is when he asked if he asked other countries to condemn.
>>1604073>So would a progressive united front that wrests power back from the BJP.
Nothing short of a Cultural Revolution would fix anything in India. With its ethnic and religious violence, and a fucking caste system.
I have never seen a bigger pile of contradictions just begging to be negated.
Yup. Indians can kill anyone they want in Canada because the U.S. has decided fascist Bahrat is essential to “countering China”. In the West, this is only said informally (not in newspapers, but absolutely everywhere else,) and India forpol commentary is open and explicit about his reasoning as they have different domestic audiences. RAW can continue to kill on Canadian soil, and in the UK, Australia whatever. I don’t really see a limit on Indian extralegal violence being imposed by the west.
Would America let india get away with assassinations of its citizens?
>>1604073> So would a progressive united front that wrests power back from the BJP.
This is why fascism in India is going to be given unlimited diplomatic support by the west, including the western left. It will always be just one election away from “resetting” to the prosaic India that exists in the western imagination.
The US would do it themselves.
The West's India strategy is going to backfire hard. The Indian administration in its present derangement, with all the freedom to do unhinged shit that the West is giving them, is going to cause way more damage to the West and itself than it can ever do to China short of nuclear war.
They really think Modi is like a normal politician with a checkered past who is going to be staid and responsible statesman. Why? Well, nobody in the news really reported anything else. I remember back when trump visited India there are actively pogroms happening like 3 blocks away from the meeting place and Chris Matthews was freaking out. Like in shock that this was happening and nobody cared. Lol. Of course, he blamed TRUMP.
It’s very funny when you compare it to how they view Xi vs. what he actually is.
balkanization never actually fucking works you stupid fuckers holy shit do you just play hoi iv or have you ever actually looked at what balkanization does to nations see whats currently happening in russia or what happened in yugoslavia, you're effectively giving nationalists the keys the castle and asking them to fuck you in the ass
My sense is that the BJP's brand of Hindu nationalism is contributing to the centrifugal forces within Indian society. If you want to discourage "narrow nationalism" then you also have to discourage the "great X nationalism" even more.>>1604319
It's also worth mentioning that India was basically "balkanized" already with the Partition. I got into a hole recently reading about the founder of Pakistan, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, who wanted a secular republic that included what is now Pakistan but that became unworkable. He came across comparatively well though from what I read. Gandhi was too mystic for my likings but then he was assassinated by a Hindutva radical.
There's no genuine substantial effort to balkanize India. What are you going on about. The fascist regime is alienating as many people as possible by itself.
Nobody is hoverhanding the Balkanize India Button, dumbass.
I didn't say anything about elections. I'm talking about a general strategy of uniting anti-BJP forces to remove them from power through whatever means prove necessary. I think this approach would be preferable to different groups trying to jump ship from the country.
At least one person ITT was arguing the merits of Sikh separatism.
>Canada has Indian diplomats' communications in bombshell murder probe: sources
>Sources tell CBC News Indian officials have not denied the existence of the intelligence in private
The Canadian government has amassed both human and signals intelligence in a months-long investigation of a Sikh activist's death that has inflamed relations with India, sources tell CBC News.
That intelligence includes communications involving Indian officials themselves, including Indian diplomats present in Canada, say Canadian government sources.
The intelligence did not come solely from Canada. Some was provided by an unnamed ally in the Five Eyes intelligence alliance.
In a diplomatic crisis that unfolded progressively behind the scenes, Canadian officials went to India on several occasions seeking cooperation in the investigation of Hardeep Singh Nijjar's death.
The Sikh leader was shot dead outside a Sikh temple in Surrey, B.C. on June 18 and reportedly had been warned by the Canadian Security Intelligence Service that he was at risk.
Canada's National Security and Intelligence Adviser Jody Thomas was in India over four days in mid-August, then again for five days this month.
That last visit overlapped with a tense meeting between Prime Minister Justin Trudeau and Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
Canadian sources say that, when pressed behind closed doors, no Indian official has denied the bombshell allegation at the core of this case — that there is evidence to suggest Indian government involvement in the assassination of a Canadian citizen on Canadian soil.
"I can assure you that the decision to share these allegations on the floor of the House of Commons … was not done lightly," Trudeau said Thursday in New York after attending the United Nations General Assembly.
"It was done with the utmost seriousness."
The Canadian government has not released its evidence and has suggested it could emerge during an eventual legal process.
India accuses Canada of sheltering terrorists
The dispute has poisoned Canada's relationship with India, a growing international power, just as the United States is courting it as a potential ally.
The Indian government has fumed at Canada for — in its view — sheltering Sikh separatists, including Nijjar, whom it called a terrorist.
The growing feud already has resulted in the expulsion of diplomats from both Canada and India. It escalated Thursday when India stopped processing visitor visas in Canada.
Canada is weighing retaliation but has taken no decision yet, said government sources in Ottawa. Trudeau dodged that question Thursday.
When asked about the intelligence reports, Deputy Prime Minister Chrystia Freeland said she couldn't comment without risking the investigation and Canada's obligations to its Five Eyes partners.
"That partnership rests very much on those… intelligence conversations being held in confidence," she told CBC News Network's Power & Politics host David Cochrane.
Asked if Ottawa is thinking about retaliating by pausing visa processing for Indian visitors, Freeland said the government is focused on bringing the killers to justice.
"This is not about geopolitics. This is about Canada, the safety of Canadians in Canada. This is about the rule of law," she said.
The story has reverberated internationally, including in Washington. There were several questions about it during the White House daily briefing.
The U.S. government has not confirmed or denied that it was the Five Eyes ally providing some of the signals intelligence.
But one of the most senior officials in the U.S. government confirmed that the United States has been in frequent contact with Canada on this issue.
The official, U.S. National Security Adviser Jake Sullivan, revealed that the U.S. also has discussed the matter with the highest levels of the Indian government.
He said the U.S. is deeply concerned and wants to see the investigation continue and the perpetrators brought to justice.
He insisted that U.S. interest in this case will not disappear simply because it involves India, a powerful democracy with which it craves closer ties.
"It is something we take seriously. It is something we will keep working on. And we will do that regardless of the country," said Sullivan.
"There's not some special exemption you get for actions like this. Regardless of the country, we will stand up and defend our basic principles."
He also aggressively pushed back on media reports suggesting that the U.S. had declined to defend Canada on the matter.
"I have seen in the press some efforts to try to drive a wedge between the U.S. and Canada on this issue. I firmly reject that there is a wedge between the U.S. and Canada," he said.
The Canadian government has refused to discuss Modi's awareness of, or involvement in, the case. The Indian government did not respond to the CBC's requests for comment
When asked how far accountability could go, and whether Ottawa expected legal repercussions for people higher up in the Indian government, Canada's ambassador to the UN steered wide of the question.
"I'd rather not go there. I don't think it's smart for me to do that," Bob Rae replied at a news conference.
"I like my job. I would rather not lose it."
He added that the murder of a Canadian, on Canadian soil, is an affront to both the victim and to Canada's national sovereignty, its territory and a common international understanding of boundaries.https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/sikh-nijjar-india-canada-trudeau-modi-1.6974607
Probably sizzle in the long term because Modi has become emboldened from the weak response from the rest of the West.
Wanting out in the face of ethno-religious supremacism is an understandable reaction.
>>1604450>canada joins brics
Watching Canadian media coverage on this is so brainmelting because they try to find every opportunity still to whine about china instead. Like the worst of their allegations against China are that they had a diplomat investigate a politician they were about to sanction, and even then no evidence has been provided apart from csis hearsay, but if you listen to braindead leafs it's almost as if it's worse than india literally assassinating people.
Yeah, turn on your TV, America just surrendered
funny best/worst case scenario
SOMEONE GIMME A QRD IN INDIA?
REVOLUTION BY 2030??
yeah i didnt expect it either but its true
Westoid hypocrisy on China is so intense it pervades everything.
They’re aware that India, their new ally, is far more guilty than China, their new enemy. They can’t not be aware of that. And the reason this is happening is *because they hated China* and clearly signaled to India they can do anything in their alliance, and continue to signal this. But how do you even deal with that? There’s no way because no Canadian can say anything is too far or too unnecessary to the goal of opposing China. It just can’t be thought.
> Canadian Prime Minister Justin Trudeau said there’s no room for “rapprochement” with China as President Xi Jinping’s muscular foreign policy has made a normal relationship between the countries impossible, for now.
>hey it’s okay if you kill a few guys here. Just be a little less obvious. And go ahead and tighten the screws on Kashmir a bit that’s fine we won’t look.
Like Canada had not released this guys identity yet and India media already was spamming this guys death everywhere
Not just his name but also the details of his death and who is assailants were and the alleged motive. Lol.
Why is not Bharat? Lmao
Realistically what could come of this? Do either Canada or India really need each other? What could they take away from each other in retaliation if relations continue to deteriorate?
Both are supposed to be junior partners in the anti-China axis, they're making dad look bad.
Ah. India has its own beef with China over their unresolved border disputes. I don't see how that is lessened by this controversy with Canada. And Canada more or less remains the US's vassal when it comes to foreign policy decisions of any import. So I don't see how this changes anything.
It's symptomatic of a larger issue going on. Canadians might view the issue as "authoritarian leader Modi uses strongarm dictator tactics on our peaceful liberty-loving democratic republic" and proud Indians might see it as nothing but more Western hypocrisy and neo-colonial attitudes.
This is a self-inflicted wound due to NATOland's persistence in trying to build an anti-China/Russia anti-authoritarian alliance where at least half the members are authoritarian states themselves. They can either stick to their supposed ideals that do manage to trick half the Western population, or they can look away when Modi does some Hindutva shit and anger their own populations they've been pumping full of disinformation about authoritarianism abroad.
This absolutely degrades Indian relations with the West. Other countries aren't explicitly commenting but it isn't like they don't see what's going on, and to India the lack of response is almost a blank check for them to do even more unhinged shit, which they absolutely will do given how their response to Canada's accusations wasn't to feign innocence, but to completely double down and fly off the rail against Canada.
Thanks for the analysis comrades. Haven't done much thinking about this particular issue.
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