I actually ended up reading the comic this was in randomly the other day, I was like 'lol, what the fuck'if you want to know what they did, the good guy broke in above him, knocked him out and tied him up to the ceiling in a noose
No one believes that he boiled babies, OP. he just launched an attack on an indigenous community, ordered the deaths of children and threw boiling water on them, and expressed no remorse for doing so. He also went out of his way to repress other indigenous communities as well.>Am I right leftypol
He is the man who synthesized the Immortal Science of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, REST IN POWER CHAIRMAN GONZALO, LONG LIVE THE PROTRACTED PEOPLES WARS IN INDIA, THE PHILIPPINES, TURKEY, AND PERU, DOWN WITH THE GLOBAL IMPERIALIST-CAPITALIST SYSTEM, WORKERS AND OPPRESSED NATIONS OF THE WORLD UNITE, ✊😜!
>boiling babies follows without fail
it's the only thing making them stand out from your bog standard leftoids
What makes Gonzalo stand out is the fact that he synthesized the Immortal Science of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, the highest stage of Marxism, ✊😜!
obnoxious retard trash
Is that what the Immortal Science of Marxism-Leninism-Maoism, the highest stage of Marxism, is to you, 🤔?
You specifically are.
Do you think you'll acquire new cultists here bc what you are doing seems highly counterproductive.
A significant portion of the left, particularly the US "left", genuinely believes that the PCP boiled babies among other supposed atrocities. It's a cliche of these discussions at this point for a reason, and your post attests to this.
This sorry state of affairs has arisen from a general inability of this left to actually challenge mainstream, capitalist-aligned media narratives, despite constant (empty) rhetoric stating their rejection of this media. Alongside this, the US/western left seems almost allergic to even the slightest investigation, let alone locating active publications giving a direct voice to these movements. It's not like the PCP didn't write anything in English or were particularly isolated, they contributed a lot to "A World To Win" and other Communist publications. These aren't difficult to find either. Banned Thought has a complete archive of AWTW and the PCP still publishes in English through sites like CI-IC.
The PCP certainly has its problems, especially after the capture of Gonzalo, but if you want to talk about them I expect you to at the very least be familiar with what they've actually done and believe. It speaks to the inability of US "communists" to genuinely imagine a mass movement when a revolutionary war that very nearly took state power and had a real and large mass base is idealistically framed as if it was a terrorist insurgency which only repressed the countryside and sprouted from nowhere.
What gets me with Gonzalo is just how dry and empty his "contribution to Marxism" was. He doesn't actually bring a fresh perspective or any interesting new ideas. He's just an insane neo-Maoist who glorifies 60s China, a place he never really understood. The PCP had a strong base with indigenous Peruvians but never really gave them a voice of their own. Gonzalo was just a weird dogmatist with charismatic skills and amazing organizing ability.
incredibly rare Mao-flag W
Not enough to not capitulate with Fujimori. Ocalan by that metric gains to him.
And Pachandra for "winning".
And the filipinos even more in general.
The boiling is a good meme tbh, and yeah it is more in the tune of executing babies by throwing them boling water. As the filmic testimony attest. There are more gruesome shit (tongues cut, lapidations, not mexican level of gore but pretty brutal for the relative peace of the andes at post Agrarian Reform time)>Trots and revisionists
How to say you are in his orbit without putting the SL flag. People continued to fight, in assamblies or in the streets and many much have done more positive than him under a red banenr.
>>1684524>a mass movement when a revolutionary war that very nearly took state power and had a real and large mass base
They took over large swathes of empty jungle and mountainside in a country that is heavily urbanized and the vast majority of the country lives in the cities. Their movement was ended because, despite portraying the rural and indigenous peoples as the "true revolutionaries" who would bring about the revolution in Peru, the guerrillas were fundamentally unable to get along with them. What's more, their leader Gonzalo was no guerilla at all and was living in the capital the whole time lathering himself up in expensive medicated lotions to the point that it caught the attention of the capital police.
What's more, the whole movement stinks of the CIA. Despite nominally being a communist and "Maoist" movement, they took it upon themselves to loudly denounce every communist country in existence, including the USSR, Cuba and China. Other parties in Peru have expressed suspicion that the Shining Path was working with the CIA and they've had a strong following in Western nations that seems unlikely otherwise, and which all glow like the fucking sun.
A man who contributed absolutely nothing to the fight for communism.
If not for the land reform of the 70's he would've been successful, not sure if that's a good thing tho.
Each and every follower of his that I've encountered has been nothing but an embarrassment.
The social cleansing thing was based. That's about it
Nvm that was the Tupac Amaru revolutionary front. Yup so the one good thing wasn't even done by them. Lame
>>1684736<What's more, their leader Gonzalo was no guerilla at all and was living in the capital the whole time lathering himself up in expensive medicated lotions to the point that it caught the attention of the capital police
this is one of the most baseless criticisms ive ever seen. multiple revolutionaries live in exile, you dont have to be qualified as a 'guerrilla' to lead a revolution, lenin wrote most of his important works outside of russia, he wasnt leading armies. gonzalo was trying to escape the law and was placed where he was that would benefit the revolution the most.
i thot that was sison
ive didn't know gonzo wrote books
>>1691163>multiple revolutionaries live in exile
He didn't live in exile. He lived in Lima, the fucking capital city of Peru.>gonzalo was trying to escape the law and was placed where he was that would benefit the revolution the most.
He was trying to "escape the law" by living in the CAPITAL FUCKING CITY?
and? no country would take him for being a political asylum and the peruvian revolution was pretty close to succeeding, he needed to coordinate and recieve as much information of the communist groups to achieve victory.
Why do you make an OP about this faggot every few months?
Literally nobody would know or care who he was if you and perhaps a few other autismanons didn't obsess over the man.
How exactly is the best place to send and receive information in your rural guerilla war the *capital fucking city*?
Practically ever self-identified "Maoist" you come across these days is a Gonzaloid.
Basically, you have three versions of Maoism.
The first and original is those Marxist-Leninists who sided with China during the Sino-Soviet split.
The second are people who promote a version Mao's "Three Worlds Theory." Specifically, they argue that the populations that live in the imperialist great powers (the First World) are all bourgeois and labor aristocratic and that the true revolutionaries only exist in the exploited nations (the Third World).
The final (and seemingly most popular these days) are followers of the Shining Path and specifically Chairman Gonzalo's theory that Mao Zedong fundamentally expanded on Marxist theory by essentially introducing a way to manufacture revolution by ritualistically re-enacting the role of the Communist Party of China in the Chinese Civil War. Central to this idea is that the Protracted People's War is a universally applicable doctrine and not something that was specific to the conditions of mid-20th century China. These people are not just those who openly claim to adhere to "Gonzalo Thought," but basically any group of individual who claims to adhere to "Marxism-Leninism-Maoism (M-L-M)" or anything about being "Principally Maoist."
Get off the road you damn protesters im trying to get to work idk who this gonzalo guy is.
Pretty cool dude.>BOILING babies
right before Gonzalo's capture. There was serious urban fighting and the PCP controlled small parts of the city. As I said earlier, the Shining Path was close to succeeding at revolution. Please read a book about the shining path before participating in disucssions, knowledge is the minimum to have a productive conversation.
You've got things completely on their head. 'Gonzaloists' are the main (I think only) Maoists who uphold the Three Worlds Theory (and other tendencies accuse them of rightism because of it). But because they sort of synthesised MLM many Maoists still uphold Gonzalo and the PCP to an extent whilst being against Gonzalo thought, sort of in the way Lenin still thought Kautsky was an important Marxist despite his later opportunism, so I can understand how you were confused if you gained your information only from what random people on the internet say about Maoism. Basically its a spectrum and not as simple as what you wrote. I advise you engage with sources before writing an uninformed take on the internet.>>1692020
I'd just like to point out that the second wikipedia article is wildly incorrect and repeats the false yet widely spread (especially on this board) dogmato-revisionist Hoxhaist idea that the Chinese revolution was lead by the peasantry and not the proletariat leading the peasantry. Here is a qoute from Mao's Problems of Strategy in China’s Revolutionary War, Selected Works Volume 1, page 171:
"Of all the social strata and political groupings in semi-colonial China, the proletariat and the Communist Party are the ones most free from narrow-mindedness and selfishness, are politically the most far-sighted, the best organized and the readiest to learn with an open mind from the experience of the vanguard class, the proletariat, and its political party throughout the world and to make use of this experience in their own cause. Hence only the proletariat and the Communist Party can lead the peasantry, the urban petty bourgeoisie and bourgeoisie, can overcome the narow-mindedness of the peasants and the petty bourgeoisie, the destructiveness of the unemployed masses, and also (provided the Communist Party does not err in its policy) the vacillation and lack of thoroughness of the bourgeoisie can lead the revolution and the war on to the road of victory"
>>1692099>There was serious urban fighting and the PCP controlled small parts of the city.
No there fucking wasn't. The Shining Path conducted some bombings and had a presence on the outskirts of Lima, but it's not like they were actively invading Lima nor would they have wanted to, because of the whole "Protracted People's War" doctrine said that they should not take cities, but surround them.
Do you or do you not believe that "Protracted People's War" is universally applicable?
I already told you to read a book about it and not skim wikipedia. Simon strong's is pretty good. You won't be ignorant of what the basic strategy and tactics the shining path had, which are actually standard practices for every single Communist revolution prior. Gonzalo wasn't making shit up with his peoples war.
I’m a mixture of the last two (Maoism-Third Worldism and Gonzaloite Marxism-Leninism-Maoism), which essentially makes me a Sisonite Marxist-Leninist-Maoist (with Social Libertarian characteristics, because I recognize the 4th Industrial Revolution, UBI, Legalizing Victimless Crimes, and a Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy, as crucial tools to slowly transition the Imperial Core to Socialism, while increasing the odds of successful Maoist PPWs in the Periphery/Semi-Periphery), because I believe that Protracted People’s War is only universally applicable to the Periphery/Semi-Periphery, while not being applicable to the current Material Conditions of the Imperial Core (The only way Maoist PPW can be viable in the Imperial Core is through a Nuclear War that completely collapses the government/society, thus allowing small Maoist parties to potentially seize the countryside and surround/capture the ruined cities against very little organized opposition beyond rag-tag Reactionary militias and Criminals/Warlords), thus meaning that under current Material conditions, the only viable Praxis in the Imperial Core is critically supporting Social Democrats/Left-Liberals against Reactionary Fascists/Theocrats, witch combined with the Hyper-Rationalization of the Superstructure (Legalization of Victimless Crimes in order to undermine Religion, Patriarchy, and Nationalism among the Proletariat) and the 4th Industrial Revolutions transformation of the Material Base (ie. the Automation of most of the workforce combined with the reshoring of Automated Supply chains back to the Imperial Core and the Green Energy Revolution making Imperialism Materially obsolete) will eventually lead to UBI in the Imperial Core, and successful Maoist PPWs in the Periphery/Semi-Periphery, which will eventually semi-peacefully merge together to create a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜!
You're a larper that rationalizes their own inaction by these "material conditions" and waits on the others to bring him communism while you daydream about your communist utopia (it really is a utopia here)
>>1692288>which are actually standard practices for every single Communist revolution prior.
Sure, if you're very selective and try to make everything look like the Protracted People's War.
I hope he does tbh
>>1691965>The final (and seemingly most popular these days) are followers of the Shining Path and specifically Chairman Gonzalo's theory that Mao Zedong fundamentally expanded on Marxist theory by essentially introducing a way to manufacture revolution by ritualistically re-enacting the role of the Communist Party of China in the Chinese Civil War. Central to this idea is that the Protracted People's War is a universally applicable doctrine and not something that was specific to the conditions of mid-20th century China.
I never really got this one. Why do they believe this? How is it not idealism? At least third worldists actually have an interpretation of real conditions. If it is an actual theory, how is it different from violent accelerationism?
I hate infighting but like cmon now
I just wanna say Lear I think your posting style is annoying and your theory is mediocre but I do agree with your praxis. The first world can transition while the periphery needs revolution. Larpers can seethe.
I humbly believe that the articulation of my variant of Sisonite Marxism-Leninism-Maoism (with Social Libertarian characteristics) at >>1692301
, successfully resolves these contradictions with a New synthesis of Maoism that if successfully applied by IRL parties, would place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜!
>>1691965>>1692020>They don’t even know about Marxism-Leninism-Trotskyism
Us STs are the men behind the curtain
Thanks for the Based take, Comrade, ✊😜! Honestly, it seems quite obvious to me that any unbiased Dialectical Materialist analysis of the Material Conditions of the Imperial Core and the Periphery/Semi-Periphery, would determine that each region needs its own distinct Praxis applied to its Material Conditions (the only way both regions would need the same Praxis of World Maoist PPW, is in the event of a Global Nuclear War that flattened the Core-Periphery distinction by collapsing the government/society of the Imperial Core, thus giving the entire world the same Material Conditions which would then justify the same Universal Praxis of World Maoist PPW), with the Imperial Core needing Reform (ie. Critically Supporting Social Democrats/Left-Liberals in order to both stop Fascism/Theocracy, and implement UBI, the legalization of Victimless Crimes to Hyper-Rationalize the Superstructure, and a Non-Interventionist Foreign Policy, which combined with the 4th Industrial Revolution will both help slowly transition the Imperial Core to Socialism and increase the odds of successful Maoist PPWs in the Periphery/Semi-Periphery), and the Periphery/Semi-Periphery needing Revolution (Maoist PPWs must be launched throughout the entire Periphery/Semi-Periphery, with their success guaranteed by the 4th Industrial Revolution Reshoring Automated Supply Chains to the Imperial Core, which combined with the Green Energy Revolution eliminating Oil/Gas extraction, will make Imperialism Materially obsolete and destroy the Material Base of these Periphery Comprador and Semi-Periphery Imperialist Bourgeois States, thus making them all ripe to be overthrown by Maoist PPWs), which will eventually semi-peacefully merge together into a Global USSR that will place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜!
Guys I’m very stoned at the moment but this thread made me realize;
The time of what you could call the true socialist mode is the only state in which any idealist political programs can actually succeed. Therefore it could be validly (ergo not necessarily correctly) claimed that the easiest explanation to the question is ‘what does true socialism even change??’, which is central to the human cognitions relationship between empiricism and desire as we call it’s acceptance of the truth of the need for revolutionary change, is simple: ‘socialism makes idealism real’
Keep in mind supporting the change present state of things, from very advanced economic modeling actual Marxist economics geniuses do, to maybe doing something a little less desirable, like starting civil wars. Material conditions are the great attractor.
You can become what you are, beloved comrades!
Thank you Lear-kun, and you’re welcome. I still think you’re an idealist because you entertain ridiculous notions like the fascism or theocracies or nuclear wars you always catastrophiza about are in any degree of magnitude near being even noteworthily likely, but hell, Kautsky acted according to idealism as well. You’re important to my development as Kautsky was in Lenin’s (though Lenin via theorizing and praxis, and me just theory) in developing Leninism. Every real instance of socialist progress is a seperate parallel because it recognizes seperate material facts. Leninism has currents not at all in real Marxism because it isn’t just the words Lenin and Stalin wrote but the actions that they did. Leninism is the stage of the ideology which recognizes the reasons for the reality of the Leninist Soviet Union.
And with that real empirical scientific data we can move on to the next stage. So Maoism, and I believe later Xiiism as a subset of that, must be considered. I see Gonzalo thought is a good theory but due to its relation with actual reality it can’t be empirically taken seriously in development.
If Trump wins the 2024 U$ presidential election (their is at least a 50% chance of this happening), the U$ will rapidly transform into a Fascist Christian Nationalist Theocracy under the Trump dynasty due to the implementation of Project 2025/Agenda 47, so I don’t know why you think Fascism/Theocracy are “ridiculous notions” that are not in “any degree of magnitude near being even noteworthily likely”, 😂🤣🤢🤮! I will admit that Nuclear War is much less likely (though not impossible, as their is a serious chance that when Trump launches World War III against China, due to his massive Tariffs/decoupling destroying their economy and luring them to Invade Taiwan as a “rally around the Flag” strategy, it could go Nuclear if the Chinese get “lucky” and manage to sink a Aircraft Carrier), I only mention it so prominently because Nuclear War is both the only way Maoist PPW would become viable in the Imperial Core, and the only viable Shining Path to Communism if the U$ turns into a Fascist Theocracy under the Trump dynasty (the 4th Industrial Revolution/UBI Shining Path would no longer be viable), 😂🤣🤢🤮✊😜!
Finally, why do you disagree with my theory that under the current Material conditions, the Imperial Core and Periphery/Semi-Periphery require two different forms of Praxis, with the former requiring Reform, and the latter requiring Revolution, as I explained at >>1692301
>>1691386>He was trying to "escape the law" by living in the CAPITAL FUCKING CITY?
The PCP had taken Lima multiple times at this point and at the time the neocolonial dictatorship was one major offensive away from falling. The PCP also had a wide base of supporters in and around Lima. Lima was a natural place to hide at that point.
Based Analysis Comrade Mao Anon, ✊😜! A lot of people don’t realize how close chairman Gonzalo came to victory, as if it wasn’t for that rotten traitor that ratted him out (that’s why he got captured, not because he was hiding in Lima, which was actually pretty smart as it was a place the Reactionary Bourgeois Comprador State would have never suspected he would have hid if that FUCKING TRAITOR wouldn’t have RATTED HIM OUT), he would have been President of the People’s Republic of Peru right now, and despite his failure, he is still a great role model for what the Praxis of every Communist Party in the Periphery/Semi-Periphery should be, immediate Protracted People’s War against their Bourgeois Comprador and Imperialist States, REST IN POWER CHAIRMAN GONZALO, LONG LIVE THE MAOIST PPWs IN INDIA, THE PHILIPPINES, TURKEY, AND PERU, DOWN WITH THE GLOBAL CAPITALIST-IMPERIALIST SYSTEM, WORKERS AND OPPRESSED NATIONS OF THE WORLD UNITE, 😢✊😜!
>>1692301>Maoism-Third Worldism and Gonzaloite Marxism-Leninism-Maoism
I don't see how these are different (without assuming anon's word is absolute) nor why you'd need to go through the effort to write all those words out. You need like half of the adjectives.
I'm not gonna take you seriously if you use polcompball ismism to perfectly find the heckin wholesomest name for your ideology.
I admit I admire pretty much every revolutionary who seriously tried it, but Guzman thought has really nothing of value. Much like most revolutionaries really. Every new attempt at revolution shows how lucky it is that Lenin was the first to really do it, rather than some pseud.
Fujimori was not the true enemy. He developed the production of Peru; remember, as Lenin taught, though every stage of capital may be worse than the last, it is, more than anything else, more productive as well.
>>1693071>U$ will rapidly transform into a Fascist Christian Nationalist Theocracy under the Trump dynasty
Source? (jk)>due to the implementation of Project 2025/Agenda 47
Both of those things are simply reversals of decades of Republican failure to entrench victories in the bureaucracy because of their stupid 'muh principles' small Government LARP. The Democrats were the only party to grow the government for 35 years, so the government is basically theirs. Project 2025 and Agenda 47 are just gonna flip that to being for Republicans. We can debate on whether or not America now is a fascist state, but either way, these new 'far-right' Republicans are materially no more fascist (direct forceful rule of capital) than Democrats already are. Neither of those initiatives, even if they succeed, can do anything to touch the news media, academia, and international financial goals, which are collectively the true means of maintenance of the bourgeoise system. They have the same class interests, but different group interests. It will take a long time for a new group controlling the state to roll out the old's control of the rest of the system. It's not materially possible for anything to 'rapidly transform' like that.
This, though a disagreement I have with you, is based on the same premises you have when arguing for support of the democratic party; that the system as it is (objectively controlled by liberals) likes its own faction's place in the status quo enough to aggressively counter Trump, even if he has the same material interests in the grand scheme of things.
A material and class analysis of Project 2025 shows that it can only fail, and the effect will be just genuine Republican control instead of genuine Democrat control or a veneer of Republican control
which, for the working classes, and for those in the global periphery, means nothing fucking changes
. If anything, the divide between a right bourgeoise government and a left bourgeoise culturo-financial system will increase the contradictions in capital in the core, progressing us forwards. Not that I'm convinced of this; though capital is self-destructive, we've seen over the past century how clever it can be with coming out on top. Accelerationists are strategically unreliable at best, dangerous at worst. >Finally, why do you disagree with my theory that under the current Material conditions, the Imperial Core and Periphery/Semi-Periphery require two different forms of Praxis, with the former requiring Reform, and the latter requiring Revolution
I never said I disagree with you on that. I said<the core can (reform), the periphery needs revolution
But, though I agree with the sentiment, I do have a criticism of. The periphery requires revolution, but the core does not 'require' reform. What is required is always revolutionary change; this can come from reform, but only in a system which allows it. I believe that while the general structure of the system present in the core can, and should, be used for reform, its current particular instantiation is hostile towards that. What must be done first is combatting that status quo though socialist agitation against its contradictions. To simply say it 'requires' reform is obviously wrong; if a socialist revolution erupted in America, you would support it, no? But assuming you mean a direct strategic plan, then yes, reform- radical reform- I believe, is the best way forward. But that reform cannot yet happen when the 'progressive' side runs Bidens and Clintons.
Also comrade Lear, if you want to reply, I reposted this in the America thread, where it's more relevant. >>1693973
Yes but it would be differently applied in different conditions.>>1692301
A liberal distortion of Maoism. I advise you talk to your party and initiate a struggle session where these reactionary ideas can be expunged.
>>1693994>Yes but it would be differently applied in different conditions.
Not really. The whole thing is still basically
1) Prove you're the true revolutionary proletarian movement to the masses (primarily by doing shit like denouncing supposed reformist and revisionist parties)
2) Go out into the countryside and form a militia
3) Create an alliance between your militias and the "peasantry" to take over the countryside
4) Surround the cities and siege them until they fall
The only variation I've seen is dumbass shit like "black people are the peasantry of the United States."
Far from being unbeatable, Protracted People's War only worked in a single country.
Least transparent Dengist
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