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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1707529838125.jpeg (875.21 KB, 1170x861, IMG_5283.jpeg)

 No.1756169

Since presidential elections are coming up, what‘s your guys‘ opinion on the socialist candidate de la Cruz? I guess the predictable answer is going to be that any non-establishment candidate is effectively impossible to succeed, but what do you think of her and her running mate as socialists?

That‘s their website
https://votesocialist2024.com/

 No.1756171

>>1756169
I dunno, they look fine from their website

 No.1756173

>>1756169
What exactly are they trying to achieve with their campaign? I guess that would be the measure. Ofc they know and we know they won't win so what is their goal? How much are they accomplishing that? That's how I'd measure them.

 No.1756179

De la Cruz is alright. In general the PSL does some great work especially through their media arms (BreakThrough news, etc.).

 No.1756185

theyre based

 No.1756326

PSL is a cult

 No.1756371

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7AsFs4H7ms&t=2

Claudia de la Cruz and Karina Garcia - Presidential and Vice Presidential Campaign Video, from September last year.

 No.1756379

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/jan/07/claudia-de-la-cruz-interview-socialist-candidate-2024

"It’s 20 January 2025, the day of the presidential inauguration. After taking the oath of office the new president, a 44-year-old woman, born in the Bronx to Dominican parents, takes her seat in the office and gets to work."

"In one of the first acts of Claudia de la Cruz’s presidency, Jeff Bezos and Elon Musk watch on as the government seizes control of Amazon and Tesla, along with all of the top 100 corporations in the US."

"And that’s just the start. De la Cruz, America’s first socialist president, goes on to abolish the Senate and the supreme court – there isn’t a specific plan as to how – as well as disbanding the FBI and the CIA and reining in the military."

 No.1756384

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PgWWGm8U1Nw&t=4427

1 Hour, 14 Minutes.

Claudia claims, she wants to build an independent working class movement, she wants this rather than votes which she sees as a political tool for the communist movement.

 No.1756427

>>1756384
Use the embed function for youtube videos.

>>1756379
While I support all of that, she would definitely be assassinated. Either by the CIA are a far right extremist.

 No.1756934

Presidential elections aren't for another two years.

 No.1758284

>>1756173
afaik, media exposure for PSL and the popularity of socialism in general. I'm going to vote for them, and for me the upside is similar to the (measurable) popularity of Bernie, and how that widened the woke-lib->socialist pipeline. Or like the polls saying "most millenials and gen z are not favorable to capitalism". That kind of thing. Nothing immediately amazing but just good press, a poll of the working class, etc.

>>1756326
seems true
Sadly most big commie orgs act like cults for some reason. We need a deep cleansing of the movement, deep reform and education on how good and bad orgs function, and reforming our attitudes towards leadership and the collective so we will be more inoculated against bad leadership.

>>1756173
that's them?! I thought that was some Russian backed anti-US propaganda channel (thats why i keep up with it) lmao

>>1756427
If she's assassinated, it will show the extent of our democracy. I'm sure she knows very well what she's up against (if she's legit - it seems like she is). Very brave for anyone to run in a campaign on socialism tbh.

 No.1758820

>>1756326
>>1758284
>seems true
>Sadly most big commie orgs act like cults for some reason. We need a deep cleansing of the movement, deep reform and education on how good and bad orgs function, and reforming our attitudes towards leadership and the collective so we will be more inoculated against bad leadership.
Samefag cointelpro shill
This is quite literally the biggest ML party in the United States and all you stupid self proclaimed maoists who are anonymous and therefore accountable to no one will attack them baselessly

 No.1758825

>>1756169
>burger vote
<2024
Fuck I hate everything about them.

 No.1758830

>>1756169
I've almost always voted PSL in Presidential elections since I could vote and intend to vote for them again. I wish that they would run more candidates in local and state-level elections.

 No.1758858

>>1756379
holy based
She has my vote.
>there isn’t a specific plan as to how
I love how liberals think the greatest barrier to get anything done is "muh rules".
No if she had the power, she could do it. The issue would be that every powerful institution would turn against her immediately, even if she somehow did it through 100% legally acceptable means.

 No.1758862

>>1756326
i wouldnt call it a cult exactly, but they are a dogshit unserious organization that spends all their time chasing protests, bullying their own membership, and trying to peel away people from any other orgs. a lot of people online seem to like them, presumably because they "have good optics", and thats because they are all aesthetics and posturing, its a "party" of hysterical twitter flagheads corralling in well-meaning people interested in socialism and burning them out on it

 No.1758867

>>1758862
oh but that said ill vote for her because fuck it why not, votes not gonna go anywhere better and if im going to spit in the ocean i may as well vote in the direction i want

 No.1758883

BTW, she spoke in this with two of my favourite American, first time I seen her; https://www.youtube.com/live/EANrzA7dwwU

 No.1758890

>>1758862
To be fair isn't this the end result of any political organization with no real power?

 No.1759312

File: 1707792214336.png (17.94 KB, 499x193, samefag_acc.png)

>>1758820
Is it wrong though? IMT is huge and they had a major leadership scandal recently, DSA is massive and they have extreme liberalism (well, to be expected, they're liberals). I don't have specific critiques of them, Like I said I'll vote for them, and I'd even join them if they become active in my area, but they give off NGO vibes with the way they advertise stuff. And either way, it's generally true, there has not been enough theoretical development given to the area of healthy leadership, proper org culture, and so on. (and you're absolutely right I'm a maoist, and its specifically because Mao and maoists have been the ones to advance the most on this neglected front)

Anyways I'm an FBI agent and criticizing the not-cult is fed behavior!

>>1758858
It's fun seeing the many city-level struggles and how successful they can be (and how open the anti-democratic forces make themselves). If we have any success via reformist means it will need to be bottom-up, from cities, to amending state constitutions to allow the reforms needed, and so on. This is highly unlikely and so far even making city-level headway is extremely hard. At some level reform would probably be impossible, and the question of defending against the federal government would become primary to trying to win legally nationally.

>>1758862
this is literally how cults operate though. What you described is a cult, even if it's not such an extreme or harmful one. Since individual methods of coercive control are able to be implemented independently of each other, there's a spectrum of cultiness in organizations. But to use these methods at all is at least a sign of liberalism in internal org culture at best.

 No.1759313

>>1759312
*"Them" in top paragraph being PSL not DSA

 No.1759326

>>1758890
it varies, when i was first organizing i ended up in a mid sized org that was just spinning in circles not doing any real work and the people in it were pretty out of touch, but they were generally just normal people without any good political instincts or will to expand

>>1759312
>this is literally how cults operate though. What you described is a cult, even if it's not such an extreme or harmful one. Since individual methods of coercive control are able to be implemented independently of each other, there's a spectrum of cultiness in organizations. But to use these methods at all is at least a sign of liberalism in internal org culture at best.

maybe, not the hill im gonna die on either way. like i said i despise PSL, even DSA is far better because despite the liberal majority there is some actual internal struggle for political direction, some political influence, and some worthwhile projects carried out by some locals. im just hesitant to call every weird cliqueish socialist org a cult because im not sure where you draw the line there, at what point is it a cult vs just a shit org with internal discipline enforcing its shit strategy? we fundamentally agree though, this just nitpicking on my part

 No.1759362

>>1759326
nitpicking is fine
I guess you're right, when I said there's a spectrum to culty behavior I didn't think about where to put the dividing line between "cult" and "not-cult". You're right, it doesn't really matter anyways, but I think it's important to call out culty behavior in such language, because anything else gives orgs too much of a free pass (e.g. calling it "bad leadership", "cliqueishness", "shit org" all have negative connotations but might not ready someone for walking into a manipulative setting that tries to pull them in and drain them for labor and possibly money, while harming their mental health and possibly straining outside relations, indoctrinating them into untrue nonsense or an anti-intellectual mindset, and so on - not saying PSL does these but these are some ways cults harm people)

I guess anyways the point is just to keep people away from harmful dead-ends, and when in an org to keep it moving towards working class democracy, and away from cultiness.

BTW anon, I have 0 orgs in my area, I was planning on just reaching out to every major national org in the hopes maybe someone else local has too that they could get me in touch with to start smth, do you have any better ideas on forming a group when there's literally 0 left scene? I'm not a college student btw

 No.1759387

Reminder the DSA is the biggest socialist org in the US, reminder that the DSA IC is rock solid and has been invited by and sent delegations to anti-imperialist movements all over the world including Cuba, Venezuela, Nicaragua, Okinawa, etc. Reminder that the DSA never endorsed Biden while the CPUSA and other orgs did.

 No.1759399

>>1759362
>walking into a manipulative setting that tries to pull them in and drain them for labor and possibly money, while harming their mental health and possibly straining outside relations, indoctrinating them into untrue nonsense or an anti-intellectual mindset, and so on - not saying PSL does these but these are some ways cults harm people

yeah i think this is a real danger in orgs like PSL, but ive known enough relatively normal people who were in PSL and left when shit became weird in the sense of counterproductive drama, more senior members being irresponsible and manipulative, etc. there have definitely been some abuse scandals and im sure theres more than have been leaked. the main difference i see is that its possible to just up and leave if you havent already made it your life, and being involved in that bullshit is definitely straining at the very least, but i see it more as like a multilevel marketing scheme or a really intense homeowners association. maybe those could be described as cults of a sort, i just usually think of "cult" as requiring a level of huge initial commitment to be involved at all & then actively trying to prevent you from leaving, while at the same time providing intense community "comfort" when you do lean into it and dont question the program. there are absolutely socialist parties & orgs like that out there, but i dont get the impression PSL is one of them. i think it mostly just has a culture & structure that encourages cliqueishness and all kinds of unhealthy interpersonal drama, with the liberatory politics serving as a way to justify that kind of thing, but not in a way that is necessarily predatory or abusive. the best example might be a college fraternity: its a closed environment with a strong in-culture, importance of seniority, and pressure to conform even when things dont make sense, and that provides an environment that predatory and abusive people can easily make use of to get away with their behavior. not good but not exactly the same as what people normally mean by a cult, where the intention from the jump is to isolate you from the rest of the world to instrumentalize you for someone or anothers messiah complex. in the case of PSL its the kind of thing that varies wildly depending on the local, there have been a couple locals and college PSL clubs that got fed up with the wider party being weird and became independent socialist orgs

as for your other question, there's actually more ways now to get involved at-large since zoom meetings have taken off during covid. unfortunately that means missing out on the gratifying community work and camaraderie that come from having a group to actually meet and work with, but if you just want to get involved and help out you can look for orgs that take at-large members, and volunteer to do phone banking, social media management, writing/editing newsletters, secretary work for zoom meetings, etc., that kind of thing. DSA and SAlt definitely have at-large positions, CPUSA might but im not sure. none would be my first pick either but honestly when theres not many choices available its just about choosing the least bad option available, and think of it less as pledging loyalty to one group and more as getting experience and perspective while working to try to cultivate a broader communist movement. DSA does have some good working groups you could check out, but mileage is going to vary a lot depending on what personalities you end up working with.

alternatively, you could always do things like volunteer at a soup kitchen or homeless shelter or look into if theres any similar charitable efforts in your area that are community service without being attached to NGOs or reactionary politics of some kind. it might not sound like much, but its a way to get experience with the basic logistics of organizing, plus something like church community service can put you in contact with a lot of poor and working class people already doing what is essentially mutual aid work in their own communities in a way that socialist orgs struggle with because they dont have a foothold there. i dont have any illusions about that being some great contribution, but in the absence of active organizing in your area you could do a lot worse than consistently doing some independent study of theory and consistently doing some food drives with the church in the poor part of town

 No.1759482

File: 1707805061487.jpg (177.1 KB, 749x768, 1493420887752.jpg)

Was PSL the party that had Leonard Peltier on their ticket for VP in this last election, or one before?

 No.1759688

>>1759387
Cool but can I clap at their rallies or would that cause too much sensory overload?

 No.1760062

File: 1707846564410.png (83.93 KB, 640x764, 640px-Chudjak.png)

>>1759688
>hey man maybe don't shit on the largest socialist org in the us-
<ok but have you heard about a specific cringe speech one of their members made in like 2019

 No.1760209

>>1759399
>but i see it more as like a multilevel marketing scheme or a really intense homeowners association.
That sounds weirdly accurate in a way that I haven't heard someone else say before.

Anyways, I see these presidential tickets as kind of like skywriting. I don't believe that it's somehow a yardstick to measure support for socialism as much as a way to get the party's name on the ballot, so when people vote, they see "Party for Socialism and Liberation" on there, which is something they had never heard of before, but now they do.

>>1759482
That was PSL yeah.

 No.1760497

>>1756179
BTN is PSL? I did not know of this.

 No.1760522

>>1760497
BTN, People's Forum, Empire Files and associates are basically the PSL's inofficial media arm.

Here is a smear piece by the Daily Beast on the connections.

https://www.thedailybeast.com/neville-singham-funded-breakthrough-news-is-pushing-moscow-beijing-propaganda

 No.1761040

>>1760209
>That was PSL yeah.
Based Peltier is a badass, that did nothing wrong!

 No.1761659

>>1756169
WTF is this liberal shit doing on this board
they can't even legalize weed letalone propose any spatial planning

 No.1763796

>>1759399
thank you

 No.1771271

>>1759482
>>1759482
most liberal image


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