(The mods didn't like my first thread on the subject, but we cleared it up on /meta/, and I'm remaking it with a clearer/less incendiary OP.)
I don't get MAGAcommunism. Even without Trump, MAGA as a movement already exists. Why are they trying to siphon people who are already in an organized movement into an organized movement? Especially people who are so virulently anticommunist? As far as I can tell, they've converted exactly zero MAGA people to communism. Instead, all their followers seem to be r/stupidpol Red Scare listeners; they've done a much better job converting leftists to MAGA than converting MAGA to leftism.
I also don't get why they're so obsessed with culture war stuff and muh tradition. Again, it feels much more MAGA than com.
I wouldn't even pay it any mind if guys like Hinkle and Haz didn't show up on RT and the like. I don't consider it a particularly legitimate movement, but clearly someone does, enough for them to get a platform on Russian state media, so it can't just be written off as "internet bullshit", even if it's functionally little more than that.
>>2097447>by shitting on identiy politicsThe thing with MAGAcoms is that they don't actually do that. They participate in idpol to an even greater degree than standard American conservatives. Go watch Haz, for example, and look at just how much he talks about things that
aren't the class struggle.
I think a sort of American socialism could be successful, if it tied itself to the progressive elements of American history, such as the bill of rights, radical democracy as practiced in some of the early states and of course the later struggles for emancipation. Sadly this idea has been completely shitcoated by patsoc and magacom schizos.
>>2097447I am not complaining about BSW potentially stopping an AfD government, but claiming this as a success for the left is pure cope.
>>2097519Within a single year they have successfully entered 4 state parliaments and entered 2 coalition governments in those states directly, thus securing a few seats in the German senate. In addition to that they have a handful of dissident state reps all across Germany and currently about a dozen of dissident MPs within parliament. They are expected to enter another state parliament and quadruple their federal MPs by next february.
By all accounts they are the most successful new political movement since the German reunification. No party, except for the post-ww2 refoundations of legacy parties, has entered governments and parliament this fast.
>>2097411Before Rafiq started doing the faux-communist Eurasian Dugin bullshit he was claiming that SJWs were the vanguard of a new revolution against a brewing fascist insurrection. He also thought Syriza was going to bring us communism.
https://archive.is/2016.06.06-025831/https://jrachblog.wordpress.com/2016/02/12/the-trial/Rafiq's whole career is literally just consooming information from Dugin and clipped quotes from chingping bureaucrats and then making shit up about communism afterwards.
>>2097535Sahra Wagenknecht is an experienced stateswoman, economists, etc. in her 50s.
Haz and Hinkle are clowns whining about LGBT people on twitter.
Please don't compare BSW with "MAGAcom" clownery
>>2097551holy shit theyre antiwar? that changes everything #wow #whoa
>>2097553and this is different from other opportunist political parties how?
>>2097551the only party?
opposing genocide?
the only one?
really?
well, guess im all in on bourgeois electoralism, small business owners worked hard for what they have, theres no other way!
>>2097546she is a bourgeois economist with bourgeois pretensions on how the economy should run.
>>2097557>she is a bourgeois economist with bourgeois pretensions on how the economy should run.and haz and hinkle aren't even that much. they're just twitter clowns doing reactionary tailism of a bourgeois reactionary movement.
the conversation began with a magacom idiot saying that the magacom """strategy""" (if it can even be called that) could be successful because (allegedly) bsw is doing the same thing in germany. i'm pointing out that bsw is an actual serious party with an actual serious leader (bourgeois or not) and that magacom clownery is twitter horse shit
>>2097566People like Dagdelen, her foreign policy chief, are part of the extended Multipolarista/Greyzone sphere.
Cope.
>>2097603In don’t live in Krautland, this thread is about America and the US Left, I don’t give a fuck what mental illness Kraut “leftists” suffer from
>>2097608>>2097621Lmao Krauts are projecting hard as fuck, just bc your vile people are completely buck broken by Israel doesn’t mean most nationalities are
I've been reading the ACP's "constitution". There's some weird shit in there:
>The American Communist Party recognizes only one Communist Party within the territory encompassed by the present states of the United States and Canada, with the exception of the colonies, territories, and lands occupied by the United States and Canada which are legitimately contested by other nations.>>The American Communist Party is that Party.Why Canada? Why are you roping an entire other country in to this? Especially a country that isn't to fond of being seen as America jr. Aren't you supposed to be anti-imperialists?
>The logo of the American Communist Party is the historical logo of the Communist Party USA, all in red, tilted at a 45-degree angle counterclockwise, blah blah blahWhy is this in there LMAO?
>The synthesis of Marxism–Leninism deepens the range of its practical application in new contexts, which reveal with greater clarity its common essence across different eras, regions, and nations.Idealism you say?
>All Chapter social media accounts must be verified on the Party’s public blockchain ledger, approved by Party leadership, and conform to the established Social Media guidelines.LMAO
>The Party grants membership the right of a strictly internal freedom of criticism. Public criticism of the Party may be permitted through approved Party mediums, such as the Party journal.Sounds good, but then they say
>Freedom of criticism and of opinion are permitted only insofar as they do not degrade the dignity of others or the Party and are presented in a genuinely comradely fashion.Oops. Say whatever you want until it hurts someone's feelings 😥
>It is incumbent upon Party leadership to allow for genuine differences of opinion and criticism to be given expression within the Party. No suppression of internal discussion, dialogue and debate is permissible except in highly extraordinary circumstances.Which are?
>All Party members have the right to participate in and submit theoretical or analytical work to Party publications and media (such as Red America), provided that these submissions evince an appropriate level of articulation, education, and sincerity.Okay, but what does 'articulation, education and sincerity' mean? You autistically specified the way your logo looks, why not the actual workings of your party?
>To offend, demean or degrade the heritage of a given historically-constituted group is strictly prohibited. Any violation of the dignity and privacy of a given Party member on the basis of sex or other characteristics is strictly prohibited.Even more plz dont be mean to me 😭😭😭 shit.
>The Party exercises a strict zero-tolerance policy with regard to all lewd, obscene, and inappropriate displays and behaviors which offend the moral sensibilities of the people.>All attempts to offend and provoke the national and religious sensibilities of the people are strictly prohibited.Again, you keep doing this 'we're all about free speech and open dialog mangggg' shit, but then you turn around and say you're not allowed to offend anyone. The whole point of free speech is that you're allowed to offend people, that you're allowed to say things that need to be said even if it makes people uncomfortable. What's the point of claiming to advocate for open dialog when you want to excise everything that's necessary to actually have one?
>Chapters will establish small businesses or cooperatives owned by the Party Chapter (Chapter Enterprises) with the intent of both funding the Chapter and Party.LMAOOOO!
>The blockchain smart contract…Didn't even need to finish this sentence to know whatever came after was going to be retarded
Here's a link btw:
https://acp.us/declarationIt's mostly boring, but there's some true gems in there!
>>2097667>Why Canada? Why are you roping an entire other country in to this?As a leaf I can say that the separation between the two countries is completely absurd and I would fully favour annexation by a socialist US. In its present state though I want nothing to do with that dumpster fire lmao.
>Why is this in there LMAO?Not uncommon for a group's constitution to enshrine certain symbolism.
>Idealism you say?Pretty standard ML take actually.
>Say whatever you want until it hurts someone's feelingsI think that's meant to ensure that criticism is constructive and not just pointless shitflinging or character assassinations. Again pretty standard and taken directly from ML theory.
Honestly as far as their constitution goes I don't see anything too absurd here. Frankly the overall angle their going for of distancing themselves from certain elements of social liberalism and embracing a socialist-oriented concept of American nationhood are good ideas on paper. It's just that Haz and Hinkle are morons who will inevitably fuck up its implementation, most likely overcorrecting on these issues into actual reactionary territory. Sometimes it's a depressingly short pipeline to go from "We don't really need to talk about trans issues that much" to "Trans people are degenerate pedophiles who belong in jail."
>>2097667As a bonus for this post, there's also their party program. It's mostly ehatever socialism 101 stuff, but there's a few bits that are questionable like
>The Communist Party stands for the breakup and nationalization of social media monopolies and the expansion of First Amendment speech protections to all social media platforms owned or subsidized by the State.Followed by
>The Communist Party stands for the promotion of healthy, positive, and family-oriented trends online.Like WTF does that mean? Am I allowed to say whatever I want or not?
Section 16 overall is really vague in a way that puts me ill at ease, 17 is the same thing but worse because it smacks of Patsocism, and 18 is just words to pad out the page.
One thing did especially catch my eye though
>The Communist Party stands for the large-scale implementation of cybernetic technologies across the whole economy and the implementation of AI-driven national economic planning How embarrassing!
>>2097718>how would they define "promoting" Well if they ever formed a government (lol) and didn't clarify it in legislation then that would be an issue for the courts to sort out.
>how would the stop it?Idk, algorithms that push posts reminding people to touch grass and jerk off less?
>>2097573>One is a real political party, and the other is (for the time being) a clown show with one elected official in a nothingburger "bailiff" position in bumfuck whocaresvilleOne would have to be completely delusional to think MAGA types in America are going to follow a self-described communist named "Haz Al-Din." I remember the Infrared group were also fans of the EFF in South Africa when they started making videos. I've been critical of Malema (and his party looks like it's in a downward spiral now) but he was the leader of the ANC's youth wing before starting his own party.
>>2097676>How closely are they connected to rhe Larouche movement? The Schiller Institute is a LaRouche front and Haz has spoken at one of their events, and I think they have some dual-carding members, but more than anything there's just a similarity in organizing tactics. For example, the organization formerly known as LaRouchePAC initially claimed that they needed to infiltrate MAGA in order to later lead it (as if that were possible), imagining they could somehow wrest control of it from Trump, or persuade Trump to adopt LaRouche's program. But now they seem to have abandoned that idea entirely and are promoting Trump and the MAGA wing of the Republican Party without any criticisms.
>>2097679>It's just that Haz and Hinkle are morons who will inevitably fuck up its implementation, most likely overcorrecting on these issues into actual reactionary territory. That not might be a fuck-up from their perspective, but the goal. But more than anything the only people I can see them appealing to are nerdy teenage boys and college-aged males who think stuff like this
>>2097738 is cool. I think they want to look like Command & Conquer villains if you see the memes they post, and dressing in all black and stuff like that.
>>2097810It takes getting hit over the head a thousand times to post like that.
>>2097804I think there's a lot of mimesis that goes on between antagonists. They study each other, learn from each other, but also come to resemble each other. Like in warfare, U.S. special forces guys in Afghanistan would start growing their beards out (which right-wing guys in America would start doing because they wanted to look like those guys), and now Taliban soldiers dress like U.S. special forces guys.
What the NAFO types in the West refuse to acknowledge is that a lot of Russian propaganda come from attempts to emulate the West. It's un-thinkable for them. There were media startups in Russia which were looking to the U.S. for a model and worked to adapt it, and Solovyov has far more in common with Fox News and InfoWars than anything from the Soviet Union. There's a noticeable difference in Chinese state media compared to both as well. On disinformation like 5G and so on, RT would definitely exploit that, but we know the U.S. government has also run disinformation campaigns in poor countries targeting Russian and Chinese vaccines (which I think is disgusting).
>>2097882RT is a whole interesting story because they used to have a lot more left-wing people. They've been shut down since in America, but you used to be able to get a good-paying job working for them out of a studio in Washington D.C., and Abby Martin had a show on there.
I think Russia figured out around 20 years ago that they had a bad image problem, but they never could figure out how to make Russia look attractive (like China does with its outward-facing media). It's like trying to make Ohio look attractive. So they went for a counter-hegemonic approach instead. So there was a weird mix of left people, but also alt-right people. Richard Spencer would go on RT. Martin actually quit RT after the invasion of Crimea, which she didn't support, so she had a limit too (although unlike Spencer, never became pro-NATO). Maybe she was a bit cynical, but the new generation seems utterly cynical, and that's worse. I get the feeling the audience for the MAGA coms is not MAGA people either really, it's other self-deluded people who think they're in constant communication with MAGA, who they all secretly believe are gullible rubes anyways; or it's kind of a performance in front of other leftists, like "we went on RT… we're reaching the MAGA people and you're not…" but what actually makes Eddie mad is getting banned from TheDeprogram subreddit. Like you're on the central committee of this communist party and you're melting down about getting banned from Reddit?
Anyways, I believe Martin and others who worked for RT when they said they could say whatever they wanted. But I'm not sure that has been true for awhile, which is why they don't work for them anymore. But it's also much more difficult now because of sanctions. Feels like the world has become much more politically repressive in recent years, and that's also true in the West.
>>2097932If the Hinkle did figure out something, and to a certain extent I thank him for it, it might be that multipolarism is ultimately just a grift and nobody actually believes in anything. Even the Axis of Resistance, which does have an ideology (and does believe in something), didn't actually go full Apocalyptic war with Israel and did mostly attritional and P.R. actions. Then you see these crazy Sahelian juntas take over and start doing anti-gay stuff, and Western leftists would be like "noooo don't you understand homophobia is just a European colonial import" and have zero effect, while Hinkle could be like "Burkina Faso BANS gays – the penalty is FORCE MARCHED THROUGH A MINEFIELD" and they're like "thank you Jackson we're doing our best." But not only do these juntas appear to be losing to Al Qaeda and ISIS, smearing the queers is easy, like all identity politics (and I'd put Ukrainian nationalists beating up Russian-language schoolteachers after 2014 in a similar light), so going and fucking up some people who can't fight back feels like a win in the absence of real change, but I think there is this general trend around the world to have a lot of very loud rhetorical positions but just not acting on them or only halfheartedly in everything political. Kind of in the nature of populism I suppose.
>>2098108Shit man. I wish I was privlleged enough to bitch about Starbucks being the pinnacle of Last Stage Capitalist all day, instead The Man got me stuck doing the 9-5.
>baristas produce nothing towards the soverignty of their own nationCONVINCED these faggots are just employeed by Big Caffeine to posion the well of Leftist Discourse. Never made a twitter account and pray I never gotta.
>>2098108Whenever I look at Twitter, I have to remind myself just how small the number are. A few thousand likes on a Tweet looks like a lot, but then I realize that I've uploaded YouTube videos that have gotten significantly more than that, and I have like 600 subs, which is also nothing in the grand scheme of that platform.
>>2098108I just can't imagine having such animosity towards fucking baristas of all things. It probably isn't productive labor, but also, who the fuck cares? It's such a non-issue distraction from the class struggle. How often do these guys even interact with baristas anyway? Because for me, the answer is "basically never". I don't drink coffee, and I brew my own tea, so I have very little reason to actually out to a cafe.
My first thought is that it's all just a bit. However, Haz, Hinkle, and the rest of them seem far too committed and humorless for it to just be a bit. So my next assumption is that they're just insane, basically proto-fascism reborn. Which is ironic, considering they claim progressives like AOC are the real fascists because ᴉuᴉlossnW was left-wing when he started out in politics, though I'm not sure how that gets them off the hook exactly. I mean, they at least claim to be communists after all.
As to the cause of this phenomenon, I think it's rooted in the wretched "lesser evil" dualism that infects the American mind, and perhaps the minds of the whole modern world. MAGA communism, I believe, is simply a deranged reaction to the deformed remnants of the New Left, which in turn was a response to the failures of the Old Left. Basically, MAGA communists are the modern-day equivalent of the union workers who would beat up hippies for opposing the war in Vietnam and who wouldn't let anyone join their union who wasn't a white guy.
>>2098129> I just can't imagine having such animosity towards fucking baristas of all things. It probably isn't productive labor, but also, who the fuck cares?Because you aren’t a reactionary like that
The MAGAComs are trying to appeal to “le blue haired barista” haters
>>2097411Oh cool we definitely need another thread that is identical to ISG
The whole purpose of these people is the same as the other US compatible left parties. You could call them compatible right but that's dumb. They're Heideggerian leftists who swap out Zizek for Dugin and Brian Becker for Helga Zepp Larouche.
They do exactly the same shit as normal leftists where they engage in dumb media criticism, psychoanalytical critique of imperialist ideology, glazing Heidegger (I cannot emphasize enough how much you will find this on both sides), treating the party form of socialism and democratic centralism like the floor in the floor is lava, treating the labor aristocracy as one of the most important sectors to unionize, simultaneously delving into retarded class analysis similar to Sakaiist & anti-PMC thought, meaningless curtsies followed up with incoherent criticisms of the state form of socialism, media criticism that accepts the false premises of the subject & lacks structural critique of any kind, and symbiotic feuding with right wingers to pat themselves on the back
Particularly funny that they engage in the same kind of antiwar organizing and Christian modeled mutual aid
Finally, they reinforce the chauvinism of the compatible left parties against the state and party forms of socialism by associating them with reactionary positions through their antics, and the resulting clout (because extremely online lolcow behavior to get notoriety is an accepted method of establishing on the left, which has comfortably settled down in heavily censored and manipulated social media environments and takes the easy way out every time) is used to promote themselves as one of the few political voices in the West that is willing to interact with alternative media-friendly outlets like RT, Telesur, and PressTV
Can anyone tell me if I missed anything?
Can you anchor this thread now? Gonna go suck my own huge cock for fun. At least somebody knows how to do it right
>>2098176 (Me)
Oh I forgot to add the important bit that they get heavily botted so they can be used as HUMINT assets. The rage baiting provides cover for the botting by creating plausible deniability. They need SOME real activity. Then they go fuck with ESL speakers who wouldn't understand Discord receipts if leftists opposed to them even did anything other than post them to each other for nobody to ever see again. The most pushback you will ever receive in a discussion of ACP online is when you point out they are USA feds, Chris Helali somehow got a 2nd Epstein black book off Ebay after running out of relevance following serving in the YPG (screams fed) and got promoted in New York Post (come on now how many times do we have to do this you gullible faggots), and they are being used as a weapon against peripheral countries so that supporting them is never taken seriously on the US left ever again
Mmm im going back for more of my own cock now 🏃♂️
>>2098241Also Haz is associated with Tariq Nasheed now, nearly brought a tear to my eye laughing about that. Love that we throw into the mix the hotep community-wrecking guy who mysteriously escaped murder charges while everyone around him went to prison then got an appearance in one of Michael Moore's documentaries as a random taxi driver. 🤨 Sure, why not, right?
Keep an eye on anyone who gets a high profile article or aggregation like the double whammy Beau of the Fifth Column got: first the Anti-Defamation League and Google "accidentally" redirecting Nazis to him with "Moonshot", then an article which portrayed him as subversive. We all know what info about him came out next.
https://www.latimes.com/politics/story/2021-03-30/google-moonshot-redirect-far-right-online-extremism-anarchist >>2098244>Beau of the Fifth Columnwasn't it found out that guy was involved in human trafficking slavic women into shitty jobs back in the 00s
this is why the working class has to be a collective movement with no figureheads imo, to easy for "the next lenin" (according to some idiots) to turn out to be feds
>>2098251Aside from a former RevLeft admin confirming it to me. Simply examine his writing style, both in his Revleft posts, the blog linked ITT and his infrared substack. Especially his mentions of "ecologism".
H*z stated he became aware of Marxism around age 14. When did Rafiq join revleft? When H*z was about age 14. (2010)
Both have a middle eastern background, both grew up in Michigan, both have lived in Detroit. Rafiq had temper issues. As does H*z.
https://showinfrared.substack.com/p/addressing-our-critics?utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=webHe even does this bolded text thing as seen in Rafiq's posts
https://www.scribd.com/document/450771557/Rafiq-on-pet-ownership-RevLeft-thread For reference: I took his post starting on page 63 in the pdf ("No, it would not "effectively mean preserving plant and animal systems""), removed the quotes, and then compared it to
https://showinfrared.substack.com/p/addressing-our-criticsI listed his relation as "family" and the age at the time of his first post as 19, and the second 25.
http://www.utpsyc.org/synch/feedback.php>>2097517>But H*z may actually be hiding his power level. This dude did read Marx back in the day: You don't "unread" Marx and a bunch of other theorists. The stuff he posts is completely opposite at times of what he used to believe and seems solely constructed in order to make a name for himself and the ACP. Why do I think he's doing this deliberately? Because he talked about it before during his RevLeft days and how a future successful communist movement may end up not even being called communist. He also had a secret blog at one point which, after it was found out (back around 2018/19) went private.Lets say thats what he was doing, which may be the case. The strategy is now completely fubar now, it could have worked if Trump lost and then they could have had a (slim)chance to compete as an ideological successor to maga post Trump. They're very much in a Bernie did win timeline now. They got their guy and now they have to carry water for the reactionary retard and all the promises he's backing out on. They're not even getting their immigration shit. Meanwhile everyone that said both parties are bullshit is being proven more and more correct everyday in the American mind. The only way forward is to cut ties with Trump and denounce him bourgeoise, but I don't even see that getting them back in leftist circles. If they can't get back into the fold they're just going right back to square one as not just a political party but as internet grifters. They were tolerated as Trump orbiters during Trumps election but thats done with so they're getting the boot. In less they want to exist as the equivalent of lady maga. That trans lady thats pro-trump, a sad punching bag for everyone of any political affiliation. Unlike and unwanted by what should be their community and instead reduced to a political prop and whipping boy for the only powers that be that would let around.
Or they'll just drop communisms all together and reform as a fash party.
>>2098176>>2098181I like this post. Like you identify them in particular as a grotesque freak show but reason out from there to a more general criticism, which isn't just about them.
>>2098241Yeah here's Helali.
He tends to pop up in different places. He was an ex-U.S. military guy and anarchist who basically got ran out of that scene, joined a YPG sub-unit (but I don't know what he actually did with them, while he was also giving interviews to media and saying he was an ethnic Kurd and "Kurdish activist," although the Iranian side of his family is at least partly Kurdish), who then decided he was against anarchism because the YPG weren't actually anarchists. He also traveled to China at some point to work as a "China Government Scholar for Sino-US Cultural Communication in Wuhan, China" and wrote an article about North Korea after traveling there about how it's a totalitarian hellscape… while glazing up the Dalai Lama as a Marxist (while being in the U.S. military at the same time?). Which, okay if that is his opinion, but how strange is that for someone who is now "North American chair of the DPRK International Solidarity Group."
He also interviewed Noam Chomsky once and started out with insane questions like "so, what do you think about grabbing guns and overthrowing the government?"
https://www.telegram.com/story/news/local/north/2014/11/18/my-north-korean-odyssey/35921037007/https://chomsky.info/20130312/ >>2098536Scroll up. Same writing style, same use of words, lots of details add up.
>>2098532He was unironically right for most part in both threads. His vision of (lack of) ownership under communism was also an eye opener to me at the time.
This was back when there was a lot of "nature" worship among the "left". A lot of "communism is when every worker has a small business" and appeals to "hoomin nature"…
So much squandered potential really. I read his debate with Anal Water back in 2020 supposedly broke him entirely. He's never again approached this level of vision.
I know what some here are going to argue
>Hurr all he does is post angry rantsBut he was doing more than that. Sure it's what he does nowadays, but he's not simply ONLY attacking other posters, he's genuinely expanding on the implications of communism. Even those which feel uncomfortable to most.
Like why, under communism, would people oppose meddling with the sanctity of "nature"? Why would people be anxious over their possessions being stolen? Why would the nuclear family continue to exist?
Obviously he's turned his back on all of that. And H*z and ACP cadres nowadays promote:
>Small businesses>Private property>Nuclear families>No trans/lgb people or other "unnatural" and "nontraditional" "lifestyles" and "sexualities" >>2098607Not an argument. People worrying under communism someone may steal their funkopops obviously fail to grasp communism. Like I remember a thread here from a few years ago where people argued basically this in the form of clothes. It doesn't matter, it's a form of anxiety that is itself a product of the social order and distribution of resources under capitalism.
>Read actual theoryI also read theory, that doesn't mean certain statements can't be correct if they appear outside of a book. It's not enough to read theory. You need to be able to counter reactionary brainrot in your own words (i.e. under communism we will have nuclear families employed by socialist firms in a socialist market economy where people buy socialist commodities with socialist money and then return to their socialist private property in a socialist gated community defended by socialist cops where they sit inside worrying some lumpen will rob them of their socialist commodities)
>>2098518>The strategy is now completely fubar now, it could have worked if Trump lost One of the weirder side stories in the past few months with them is getting into the Dimes Square scene of Thiel-backed Brooklyn hipsters. The Hegelian egirl farce (which I still don't understand and I think nobody involved wants to discuss it further) had them behind it in some way, like when people showed up to see these cokehead girls, there was some of the ACP people giving speeches and their guys working as bouncers at the door (wearing polo shirts).
Haz also debated some Orthodox Christian libertarian at Sovereign House, which is a Thiel-funded space where libertarians and podcasters meet to read poetry or something. The group which hosted the debate, "Young Voices," is some conservative/libertarian talent agency (big emphasis on anti-communism and anti-China stuff) staffed by veterans of Koch-funded institutes. Basically think the idea here is to train their future cadre on public speaking / debate and Haz was playing the role (whether he knew it or not) as a punching bag. Mike Crumplar wrote something about the debate but it's paywalled.
>>2098532I'll say it before and I'll say it again; the weirdest thing about Haz is that he's an alleged populist who espouses insanely unpopular views. If you held the American public to a vote right now, "should we shoot all pets?", the response would a resounding "no, go fuck yourself".
This kind of "voice of the people who knows better than the people" thing is at least understandable coming from fascists; they're hardcore idealist irrationalists and proud of it. Where it's less understandable is when it's an alleged marxist saying it, someone who should, at least in theory, be much more firmly tethered to material reality.
Reading about the U.S. sanctioning Dugin's think tank and a specific guy, Valery Mykhailovych Korovin, who helped set up the Eurasian Youth Union (the youth wing of Dugin's organization). So I went to their VK page and look who it is! (Host is a different guy, the head of the Moscow branch.)
Listening to the interview, there is an interesting part where they are talking about America, and Haz is saying something about E Pluribus Unum and how that means America is about unity and that is above the individual, which places America in closer proximity to Oriental civilizations such as Russia as compared to Europe. But Kiselev (very politely) challenges him by saying that, yes, Eurasianism is based on autocracy as a universal principle, but America is really about democratic universalism as written the Constitution in contrast to Eurasianism which doesn't seek to broaden its imperial ambitions to far-flung parts of the world, so the ambitions of both countries to become the strongest means an eternal conflict leading to the collapse of the world.
And Haz says, well, actually the Founders were Royalists because they didn't like the British Parliament. But nevertheless the American Revolution was a loss to the principle of autocracy and the Constitution was really made as a compromise, but it was a form of popular sovereignty, though we don't really have a tradition like Russia of being a continental empire, but the Constitution was an attempt to discover something like that, but it's not… our last. Or something???
>>2099164Did Haz give him a blowjob?
I just love how Haz tries to convince these people about how Murica ackshyually gud. (Like they care, lol, duginoids will hate USA and the West regardless of who is in power there)
>>2099185
No. Human social relations and the biosphere are not magic. They're not sacred and beyond our understanding, which is the point.
I hate to break it to you, but compared to a few hundred years ago the biosphere is already effectively "destroyed". The way the European colonizers described wildlife in the new world reads like science fiction nowadays. Species that were considered indigenous and numbering in the millions are either extinct or reduced to tiny habitats across Africa and Eurasia.
And I'm sure if someone from those days were to witness the current state of the world's oceans, forests and wildlife they might be led to believe Earth was hit by some sort of apocalyptic calamity which wiped out most life.
I'm also not saying that Xtinction rebellion protestors are "freaks", I'm saying this is what they're labeled and perceived as by seemingly the majority of people out there even friends and co-workers.
This sentimentality towards "nature" some attribute as a universal quality simply… isn't.
Life goes on even as the biosphere is worn down further, and what was previously thought of as natural and primordial becomes increasingly technological, synthetic and social.
>>2099190
No the first task of socialists is not to stop the mass extinctions and "save" the biosphere. This is exactly the sort of reactionary "ecologist" sentimentality Rafiq was ranting about.
If communists do end up "saving" the biosphere, it may only be as a temporary measure to prevent human extinction, before the process of transforming and abolishing nature continues.
And while it is true Capital mystifies production and the way it's tied to non-technological processes (produce simply "appears" on the shelves with customers not even aware of how it arrives at the store), this same mystification is found outside of the west too. Sorry, but having lived in a (heavily polluted) formerly Soviet industrial town, it's not any better compared to the west.
>>2099193
Call it the biosphere call it "nature" call it the "natural order". It doesn't matter. I bet many of the people who claim they only want to "save" the biosphere would be horrified if you suggested only saving the parts (scientifically) deemed to be vital for human survival and simply let the rest die out of sight and out of mind, until those elements too can be abolished replaced with techno-social processes, and if they're feeling sentimental they should "build a fucking zoo".
>>2099195
You seem to forget these "stupid takes from college campuses and Reddit posts" are also spread through mainstream media and seemingly "leftist" figures. Like take
>We need to recycle in order to "save" the planet
It's reactionary drivel. Which also obfuscates the real problem. Like the planet doesn't need saving, at all. It will still be there even if we did literally nothing, do not reduce pollution or emissions, do not dial back the use and waste of resources; It will take care of itself. Even if this leads to human extinction.
And this is the real issue; It is humanity itself which needs to be saved. Both from that emergent alien god called Capital, and from mindlessly destroying the very basis of what sustains culture and social life.
Framing this as being about "saving" the biosphere or nature or whatever is again, obscuring the real issue. By doing so you're reducing it to religion. You're arguing we need to prostrate ourselves before this unknowable God in the form of Gaia, which some argue we have "wronged". It's the exact opposite of taking responsibility, of not seeking refuge in mysticism. And it's the same attitude people use to justify even worse reactionary stances or the supposed sanctity of the established order.
>>2099221True this is the risk of doing nothing.
But the point is that even if we do something, said biosphere may still be abolished in the long run. We already see this in how technological and social food production has become.
Going back to "how it was" would lead to the deaths of billions and still wouldn't restore those parts of nature that have been destroyed and gone extinct long before anyone recorded what they looked like in a "pristine" state.
The arc of history is (human) civilization
abolishing nature, "freeing" itself from processes previously thought to be mysterious and immutable, and subsuming it into that which we consider to be technological, social, synthetic and historical.
It's silly (as argued by some) to assume as
communists we ought to, and should expect future communists, to put a stop to this.
>>2099173>>2099177>>2099261Leninhat poster in the last thread was wondering why these guys make people irrationally angry and this is what makes me irrationally angry. I am officially triggered now, but not in that crying pink pussyhat lib way, but whatever inside me is a rattlesnake-ass libertarian like Mel Gibson (patriot) right after Jason Isaacs (royalist) shoots his son in that movie. Like holy fucking shit dude. I'm being hyperbolic but I agree with the Eurasianist from Russia here, Americans do not like those things. We are against that! That's what makes America great (again). I find Kiselev's God / Tsar / Autocracy / Orthodoxy ideology from Russia to be completely alien, but it's not triggering, because he's different.
Haz is pulling something though out of a book by a conservative Harvard historian who argued royalist ideas played a bigger role in the revolution that is popularly known. He mentioned this book and I read up on the argument this afternoon and counter-arguments from other historians. The argument against the historian, Eric Nelson, is that overstated the case (to help sell books) but Alexander Hamilton and James Wilson did write appeals to George III to veto parliamentary measures that assumed any right to govern the internal affairs of the colonies. They were like "use your Stuart authority, George!" But the reason it's overstated is because that effort failed since George didn't do that, and the situation radicalized by 1776. Also there's no evidence that royalism was at all popular among Common Sense pamphlet-reading Americans who rebelled as that stuff was generally outright hostile to royalism, as were a whole bunch of the Founding Fathers who were not named Hamilton (who could be said to have been a monarchist and wanted an American king but had that idea decisively shot down).
As a matter of fact too, there were some ex-Continental Army men who wanted Washington to become a king, which he rejected, and they set up a group called the Society of the Cincinnati, which larped as English aristocracy and included Hamilton among their members (until he died from a duel), but which caused a huge scandal in the early U.S. as a potential crypto-royalist and absolutist conspiracy. I've been interested in reading about this group lately, and leading men in Cincinnati also played a role in squashing Shays' Rebellion, which if you've read Soviet texts on the early U.S., will have read those events as a victory for conservative, anti-democratic forces on the side of mercantile-creditor interests against indebted backcountry farmers.
Anyways, Haz now reminds me of Patriot Front trying to cosplay as European soccer hooligans / Azov Brigaders that you see in Poland and Western Ukraine, that is to mimic a basically alien and foreign social formation, except it's Eurasianism and he wants to make that American. But I detect some dissonance because the idea is all about unity and being big and strong, while Dugin (i.e. the GRU) has in the past supported anything in the U.S. he sees as contributing to centrifugal forces causing the nation to divide up whether they be white nationalists, Hotep-style black nationalists, and quixotic separatist "movements" like the Free State of Jefferson, Texit, etc. But I suppose as long as Haz glazes the Russian government then it's gravy.
>>2099435He said in the interview that they're going to be critical of Trump now, but it's not really clear what that means. There was some mild criticism of Elon Musk who he likes for bringing back "free speech" to Twitter but Starlink is crucial for Ukrainian war efforts and Musk backs Milei in Argentina which is bad, so he "doesn't trust" Musk.
>>2099518>Anyways, Haz now reminds me of Patriot Front trying to cosplay as European soccer hooligans / Azov Brigaders that you see in Poland and Western Ukraine, that is to mimic a basically alien and foreign social formation, except it's Eurasianism and he wants to make that American. But I detect some dissonance because the idea is all about unity and being big and strong, while Dugin (i.e. the GRU) has in the past supported anything in the U.S. he sees as contributing to centrifugal forces causing the nation to divide up whether they be white nationalists, Hotep-style black nationalists, and quixotic separatist "movements" like the Free State of Jefferson, Texit, etc. But I suppose as long as Haz glazes the Russian government then it's gravy.There's no way Haz doesn't know this, which flies into the face of his whole MAGA act. I don't like fedjacketing, but I don't see why he is speaking at all with a rep from the Eurasian Youth Movement.
Like I'd understand doing an interview with the CPRF, speaking to their cadres, exchanging ideas. Maybe even lesser known and more eccentric groups, parties or figures. But
why is he there?
Like assuming what he said is true (doubt) why is he pretending this is a good thing? Did he make any attempt at contacting or arranging a meeting with the CPRF while he was there?
Also what about the costs involved with this trip? Last time I checked H*z has… no job. We're talking hotel stays, transatlantic flights (including a much longer flight path than was the case back before 2022), travel throughout Russia. He's not a prominent eceleb (V*ush has a bigger audience) nor is ACP a big party at all. He's also claimed him and other ACP members (Hinkle included) are demonetized and banned from various payment platforms. And Infrared itself hasn't been active for almost a year.
Like fuck, it's not just him, he has cadres flying around the world doing meetings with literally who parties, there's pics of him on gun ranges earlier this year firing ARs (not cheap) and I remember reading he also bought a bunch of guns + there's pics of him with body armor and other gear ($$$). And all of this is happening while they're doing big charity handouts.
Who's paying for this?
>>2099518Seeing pictures of Haz and he wears that weird black suit (is it a Mao suit?) at some official looking events, and it just looks fucking uncanny. Like he's trying to be some stereotype of what an evil dictator dresses as. Like I barely follow fashion, but it seems to me the Mao suit just has this "foreign" vibe in the West, which is why you don't really see politicians wearing it outside of literally doing diplomacy in China. And for all its vaunted American-ness, I think MAGAcoms don't get that Americans fundamentally have an aversion to some that kind of "Stalin Tunic" shit.
Y'know I forget where I heard this, but I think I remember watching some documentary on architecture. And it had this aside that the City whose architecture Americans liked the
most was… fucking Las Vegas. It spoke ironically about the fact that you'd get these brilliant architects who studied shit for years and create some technically wonderous buildings, but some fucking wop gangster with no sense of subtlety decks a building out in Neon and Americans are all: "Yes, more of that please." And y'know, I think it fits. America's homegrown philosophy is Pragmatism. If there's anything in the "character" of America as a nation, I'd say we're kind of a straightforward, simplistic, and somewhat gaudy culture. And this is what makes the liberals seem so "un-American" or why Conservatives are currently fretting that Hegel was some evil German wizard as opposed to the noble and wise founding daddies. The "complexity of thought" or appeals to these really nuanced and distant schools of intellectualism seem fundamentally un-American. We want things simplified and with plenty of pictures.
It's why I think, for political aesthetics, it'd unironically be more "American" to dress casually. No don't dress as a fucking cowboy, I think Obama had it right when he'd wear a simple collared shirt, belt, and slacks. Business-casual maybe. Or shit, if you wanna go for the "non-threatening" look, go for the Jimmy Carter style cardigan. But for the love of God don't dress up like you're in the fucking Brotherhood of Nod.
>>2099518
>I am officially triggered now, but not in that crying pink pussyhat lib way, but whatever inside me is a rattlesnake-ass libertarian like Mel Gibson (patriot) right after Jason Isaacs (royalist) shoots his son in that movie. Like holy fucking shit dude. I'm being hyperbolic but I agree with the Eurasianist from Russia here, Americans do not like those things. We are against that!You see gaynazi, this is why I like you. You put it so succintly and to the point. Truly you are a kind of platonic ideal of an enemy to me.
It is precisely this "liberty" that americans are so obsessed with that triggers me in the same way you mention.
The kind of trigger that makes respond to the "You just hate freedom!" with a emphatic "HOLY FUCK YES! I HATE IT! I FUCKING HATE IT! DEATH IS PREFERABLE!"
The notion is so fundamentally alien to me that the hatred and disgust towards is basically an auto-immune reaction. To me why the us (and the west in general) must be existentially destroyed,. This means I tactically agree with Dugin in using whatever means one can towards this objective, ironically up to and including ptomoting a kind maximalist self destructive pursuit of freedom inside western countries: Eg. Yes, yes by all means legalize all drugs; Maximize your freedom! You are not truly free until everyone of you fucks is chocking to death on his own vomit from a opioid overdose.
>>2098226One half gets civil rights, the other gets killed. Problem solved.
Now give me a medal.
>>2099749At least when Mr. Burns does it, it can kind of be charming.
>>2099762Exactly. Y'know it kind of reminds me of how Lenin would wear just a regular suit and jacket. Honestly I think that would endear someone to the American people way more than trying to dress up in a drab olive or grey or black tunic to show "Socialist Humility" or what have you. Just wear a goddamn inexpensive suit, you'd look normal that way. Don't try to wear all black. If you wanna show your convictions have a little red flag pin if you want. But for the love of God don't try to invent something "new" that functions as a "uniform".
Shit I think that's part of the failure of Fascism here too. The fucking Silvershirts tried to mimic Euro-Fascist "shirt" orgs and they just had, like, 100 members and dressed as really silly looking boyscouts. The German-American Bund just dressed as Nazis. The modern day Patriot Front is trying to go more "American" but it just looks silly to see a bunch of twinkish-looking guys in Ralph Lauren shirts and baseball caps trying to do military marches. Trump similarly wanted to do some "strongman" style military parade but ran into the problem of DC
literally not being designed for that. America just isn't Europe, no matter how much these weirdos want it to be.
Funny enough I think that's also why the monstrously violent Skinheads and Neo-Nazi gangs out here see more success than actual ideological fascists pursuing political power. Like they're still wearing the symbols of a foreign and alien ideology, but they American-ify it by going so fucking gaudy. Big-fucking swastikas on their foreheads. They dress like violent thugs. While not a style people want to mimic, it sure as fuck seems more "American" than some dude trying to enforce military-style discipline and uniforms. It's something these middle-class weirdos will
never understand because they're experiencing America as an
abstraction rather than a lived reality. They think that if they dress the hammer and sickle up in stars and stripes it'd magically appeal to people. The reality is it's not a color scheme or slapping Washington's head onto the "Marx-Engels-Lenin-Stalin" quad-head that makes something seem "patriotic", it's the vibe.
Like these people probably think that if they hosted a Fourth of July party with their weird blend of corporate-style marketing and American flag imagery it'd win Americans over. Meanwhile I spent my 4th in American flag boardshorts, flip-flops, and a plain tank top. I was grilling hot dogs in one hand and chugging a tall boy of Modelo in the other. I'm not trying to toot my own horn, but I think
that seems more relatable to Americans than some kind of "HOW DO YOU DO, FELLOW PATRIOTS?!" spiel.
>>2099771Honestly I get along well enough with the kind of suburban working class conservative that I think the secret to "American Marxism" or "winning back white men" isn't to try and create "American Marxism" but to be a Marxist who also happens to be an American. Speak the language, embrace the vibes. Don't trip over yourself trying to "prove" you're a patriot or "act" a certain way. Just, y'know, be you.
It's really funny because one of my best friends, his nephew is a bit of a sperg and goes on some whiny rants about Communism. Y'know he'll try tp snipe at me like "Oh I but you're rooting for R U S S I A aren't you?" If we're watching the Olympics or whatever; and no matter how many times I tell him I don't give a fuck about Russia, don't speak Russian, really don't care about Russia, he just doesn't get it. It's like his stereotype of a Communist is I'll do some extremely cringe faux-Russian accent (and I knew some spergs in highschool that did that) and it's like: no. That's cringe.
It got to a point where his Uncle and one of our mutual friends, a Marine, had to dress him down and say basically: "CPUSAnon is as American as they come dude, you really gotta stop bringing up that Russia crap."
Seriously, don't make politics your whole personality or try to put on airs, I think most people will respect you more for it. If you can be a baker and a communist without being a "Communist Baker" then you're doing much better than someone who tries.
>>2099816>Meanwhile I spent my 4th in American flag boardshorts, flip-flops, and a plain tank top. I was grilling hot dogs in one hand and chugging a tall boy of Modelo in the other.This is how the American Lenin will dress. American communists need to take the grillpill. Most socialist gatherings have La Croix to drink and
random weird health foods to eat. When I first started going to socialist functions, I was thinking "Man, these people are kind of weird, aren't they?". If "micro-alienation" hasn't been coined, it ought to be. Just bring some coke, coke zero, hotdogs, and the health food for people who want/need it. Normal families accommodate people who are allergic to gluten or something while not completely catering to them.
>>2099844There's a joke I heard from one of my boomer coworkers, goes something like: if you invite your vegan friend over to your house, you'll eat steak and you'll make them a salad. You go over to their house, and they'll eat salad and make you a salad.
Of course it isn't an innate hypocrisy on the Vegan's fault, it's not like the guys who eat meat have a dietary restriction compelling them to only eat meat, but given the choice between steak and salad, they'd undeniably want steak. It's not a personal snipe on the Vegan's part, at least I don't think so, but I think it's that kind of casual "micro-alienation" you call it that can build up and give people a bad impression. In fact, I imagine that if a vegan
did try to offer non-vegan options to their friends, they'd be touched by the thoughtfulness.
Point being you're not gonna attract normie "patriotic" Americans by saying "I'm a patriot." But if you're the kind of guy who'll throw on Mel Gibson's The Patriot for the 4th and drunkenly hoot and holler when he brutalizes a redcoat with a tomahawk, then you'll prove your credentials way more than anything else.
>>2099816>Oh I but you're rooting for R U S S I A aren't you?wtf is wrong with libs
it's been 33 years
>>2099914Funny enough if his politics are anything I’d say it’s bizarrely parroting his family’s conservatism, which is wild because Cons are increasingly becoming more Russia friendly. But yeah, I think to anti communists the world over, communism has just meant “Russia” if they’re European, China if they’re Asian. There’s an old interview with Gus Hall where the host, a liberal, asks him who he was rooting for in the Olympics at the time and he gets this grin on his face and says “Well, America of course.”
The success of America in the Cold War was by orienting the conflict not around two oppositional economic systems, but around either vague notions of “Freedom vs Socialism” and, domestically, associating Communism with Russian domination. Which is to say it portrayed being a Communist as fundamentally desiring to submit to another nation, even in something as inconsequential as an international sports competition. It recasts Communism as Russianism, the victory of Communism only being the domination of one’s home nation by a foreign and chauvinist power. The communist in that instance being a collaborator akin to the Vichy regime in France—where America engages in a competition with Russia, you’re expected to hope Russia wins: be it gymnastics, basketball, or baseball. Where someone offers you a hamburger you’re expected to demand goulash or something. Everyone would be forced to speak Russian. We’d have to replace the alphabet with Cyrillic. And every American is supposed to act like a preening sycophant like LeFou in Beauty and The Beast.
That’s why I enjoy kind of undermining expectations. Like people know me, I was tuning in to every World Cup game that America was playing in. I got annoyed at a coworker who was unironically a Francophile—her boyfriend was French, she’d go on and on about how France was so much better than America and she wanted to move there, etc. She got upset when I said it was an overrated country of smug perverts.
Like I said, I think that’s a better path than just dressing yourself up as a patriot. When it comes to “internationalism” I try to reframe it in language that seems distinctly American: I don’t talk about fraternal brotherhood, or apologizing, or try to say anything that gives a whiff of “he wants other nations to dominate us” I speak in a more vague way that resonates with the dudes I know.
>”Man, imagine if we teamed up with Russia and China, like we’d have world peace then and there.”>”If we brought Russia and China to the table, we’d be unstoppable dude. Like we could do anything.”That resonates with people a lot more than saying we’re the Nazi bastards of the world who owes everyone an apology. We don’t understand our own government’s foreign policy and, in my view, that’s a little better than being diehard imperialists. To most Americans, the possibility of peace is just something that the government won’t ever suggest—which means it’s open to Socialists to propose it to the people.
>>2099944>We don’t understand our own government’s foreign policy and, in my view, that’s a little better than being diehard imperialists. To most Americans, the possibility of peace is just something that the government won’t ever suggest—which means it’s open to Socialists to propose it to the people.I think most Americans are anti-war. Considering the opposition party always takes up the anti-war cause before shockingly breaking their promise after winning the election. I think a lot of Americans prolly think of our imperialisms as "foreign aid". You know like
>Man they don't even appreciate us bombing them and giving them democracy I think its also the average American knows deep down theres never going to be Russians or Chinese parachuting into our decaying suburbs front lawns. Americans are just very sheltered from the imperialisms our country does. Its very abstract and "complicated" but theres never any consequences. Even most people in the military are just doing logistical or make work stuff. I do think there is a lot of organic anti-war sentiment among the American people and they much prefer not to be reading headline about how many children we helped killed or how the pentagon stole another trillion dollars. It's just that Americans are so detached from the actual reality of the war machine they don't see it as a priority. Epescially with all the domestic issue.
>>2100064Newgene here
Everything you said is true.
If America gets warzoned, it will be from domestic entities, not foreign.
>>2099746>And y'know, I think it fits. America's homegrown philosophy is Pragmatism. That's funny because Haz also mentioned that in the interview with the Eurasian Youth Union. It was in a separate discussion about religion (he thinks religion in Russia is deeper, more cosmic and metaphysical than in America). He said, oh, Americans are really Pragmatists, and religion is something they get into when something really bad is happening like a death in the family. More or less agreed with him even if that was an oversimplification, but he wasn't explaining our style of Pragmatism to this guy in two minutes anyways. Incidentally, I was watching an online lecture by Crispin Sartwell on Pragmatism (in the William James sense) recently and noticed Carlos Garrido had tuned in to watch. Garrido is a college professor of some sort and the other people attending the lecture were philosophy professors and students from various schools. Sartwell has no affiliation with any of the ACP people (and probably doesn't even know what it is) and is an individualist anarchist (so he wouldn't like it even if he did).
>>2099766>Truly you are a kind of platonic ideal of an enemy to me.That's good, it's an indication that you have courage in your convictions.
>>2099816>The modern day Patriot Front is trying to go more "American" but it just looks silly BTW, those two images on the left were originally Patriot Front images, so whoever made those edited and reworked them into being communist instead of fascist. (You might have known that already but just pointing it out.) I am pretty familiar with Patriot Front imagery, at least circa a few years ago when I was paying more attention to alt-right stuff (not an alt-righter) and saw those, and remembered the original Patriot Front propaganda, and I was like oh someone is trying to copy Patriot Front.
>>2099831>Pretty sure that's just the ACP. It's not the ACP either. I think it was just some random person on Twitter. It was before Infrared too, and I don't think it was affiliated with them either. ACP tries to look really futurist and "dark" often enough as well.
>It's like his stereotype of a Communist is I'll do some extremely cringe faux-Russian accent (and I knew some spergs in highschool that did that) and it's like: no. That's cringe.Most Americans can't do a convincing or even "funny" Russian accent anyways, and they try to make it sound like a harsh "enemy tongue," but to my ears it sounds like a musical language, like Italian or French. Words flow together. It's funnier when people can mimic how an accent actually sounds sort of.
>>2099844>Most socialist gatherings have La Croix to drink and random weird health foods to eat. When I first started going to socialist functions, I was thinking "Man, these people are kind of weird, aren't they?". I remember La Croix at DSA things, and then it was either PSL or FRSO doing this picnic (they were both there) but they brought a bunch of bottles of Welch's sparkling white grape juice. That's how you know you're at a communist function. Labor union / AFL-CIO functions tended to have Pepsi and Coors Light though.
>>2099944>There’s an old interview with Gus Hall where the host, a liberal, asks him who he was rooting for in the Olympics at the time and he gets this grin on his face and says “Well, America of course.”I met a really old socialist (former CPUSA member) who complained about Gus Hall running for president in the 1980s because "people would hear his Finnish accent and think he was Russian!" I thought it was funny, or sounded funny the way he said it. You'd had to have been there.
>>2100064>Man they don't even appreciate us bombing them and giving them democracy There's something that kind of sticks out to me, which is that, like, I think the "gut" response of a lot of Americans is basically "Let's be the Socialists" without saying "let's be the socialists" Or, well, that's one of maybe two gut responses. I had a Vietnam Vet come through my line and he just started confessing to me like I was a priest or something, it might've been an unironic "PTSD Flashback" moment, he told me he saw what napalm did to villages and he kept repeating this line, like:
>"If we dropped medicine instead of bombs, we would've won that war."And the funny thing about that, is if we dropped medicine instead of bombs,
it wouldn't have been a war. It wouldn't have been a matter of "winning" anything, it'd just be us building up another nation. I think Parenti touches on it in his yellow lecture, you've got these earnest Americans saying "why don't we do X, Y, and Z to win this conflict" And Parenti responds that if we started
acting like the Socialists, we would in fact
become them. Which is to say, there's a limit to what the U.S. is actually capable of doing under Capitalism.
I think in Blowback they touch on this with the Iraq/Afghan war, where there was this idea within the Pentagon, certain sectors of it, that they need to do some kind of developmentalism alongside the bombings. That the problem with the Vietnam war was that it was all carrot and no-stick. But the problem with
that line of thinking is that it's
insane.You bomb a town, kill tons of people, then you build a new town and tell the people you just bombed "Look, we built a place for you to stay!" And then you bomb the town
again later because some
other group of enemies moves in. This is assuming the town even gets rebuilt, because the kind of people that get a job in a "new" government after you topple the "old" one aren't generally the most selfless and honest types.
In contrast you have the other gut response, which is just bullying fascism, essentially. It's, if anything, an honest dissent from the insanity of liberalism's "Bombs - Construction - Bombs" thinking: "Bombs - Bigger Bombs - The Biggest Bombs." Apocalypse Now kind of touched on it, when Colonel Kurtz in his monologue, sneers at the fact the U.S. is telling young men to drop napalm on villages and incinerate scores of people painfully, but it won't let them write "Fuck" on the aircraft dropping the bomb. For a more real-life anecdote, George Lincoln Rockwell ranted that certain forms of tear gas were supposedly banned from being used to smoke out VC tunnels because "it's inhumane" and he says quite candidly that he'd rather give troops a full arsenal of shit rather than send a guy to potentially die but tell him to try to murder another person "humanely". You have Himmler sending "pest control" bills to countries the Nazis occupied and brutalized, and some bimbo GOP rep wanted to do the same to the Iraqis.
It's evil, but it's honest. And it seems a hell of a lot more "sensible" than telling a person "we're going to kill you, but gee, I really hope you aren't too mad about it."
So you do get, in a microcosm, "Socialism or Barbarism". There's the impulse to be humane and just not go to war, and there's animal instinct to fight tooth and nail, without honor or glory, to win. And in that regard I think foreign policy might actually be incredibly important for Socialism to gain ground here. In the sense of total opposition to wars, total opposition to hegemony, if you can energize people to be
anti-war as much as you energize them to be frothing psychos, you can springboard Socialism for that. It doesn't matter if you convince them to be anti-war because of "America First" or a genuine commitment to humanity as a whole: war is the vehicle that sustains Capitalism here, that sustains our domestic political divide, that keeps Fascism forever backstage, just in case they have to use it.
>>2100237Of course they are. But they're also useful idiots to *someone*, but I'm not exactly sure who and why. And I think that's why I dedicate so much mind share to them: they're very difficult to place. They're in this bizarre limbo between completely disposable faggots that nobody cares about, and a potentially dangerous movement that should be monitored. It's the same way I felt about Andrew Tate back when he was starting to pick up momentum but hadn't quite taken off yet, albeit for very different reasons.
For one, It's hard to tell the exact nature of their following. How much of it is bots and glowies who wished they were bots? Of the remaining audience, how much of it is ex Berniebro r/stupidpol Redditors versus standard MAGA people versus CPUSA communists versus other demographics that would bloat this post to list? They insist that they're a large, growing movement, but are they? They're seemingly willing/unable to provide any actual evidence to confirm those claims. And beyond that, do the people platforming them on things like RT see them as a legitimate movement, or do they just have them on as circus freak oddities?
I don't take them seriously, but the notion that others do is an unscratchable itch on my brain.
>>2100352Or maybe Haz and Hinkle are correct and ACP is the future. Maybe they are backed by true american patriots who are fighting against the deep state?
Or maybe youre just a faggot.
>>2100361I'm just curious about the behind-the-scenes of all this. Something smells rotten here, and it bothers me not knowing what it is.
>>2100364Do they still support Trump?
>>2100361>Or maybe Haz and Hinkle are correct and ACP is the future. Maybe they are backed by true american patriots who are fighting against the deep state?I do wonder though, what
is the fastest growing Communist Party in the US? The ACP people claim it's the ACP, but they never actually back that claim up with anything. I've tried looking it up myself, but I haven't been able to find much.
>>2100501>I'm just curious about the behind-the-scenes of all this. Something smells rotten here, and it bothers me not knowing what it is.IMO, I think theres just so much money floating around from intelligence agencies (not just the U.S) and billionaire pet projects/corporations I wouldn't be surprised if ACP was cashing checks from multiple competing interest. Get some Thiel bucks, a little Saudi cash, a couple of shekels from Israel, a little buy in from the Turks, obviously getting some Russian Rubbles or free sir time on RT, similar deal they got worked out with the CIA I imagine. I can't confirm it but as someone thats been working in corporate America for a long time. They have what they call the "sea turtle" method. In call centers its where high turn over is baked into the system. You have waves and waves of people in like groups of 20 or 30. Some companies will hire like 50 people in these waves. All with the expectation only like 3 to 8 of them will actually be worthwhile employees or even stick around.
I can see many of these professional spooks and think tanks doing the same thing. Just toss cash at any influencer with a big enough audience that will take the money to get your foot in the door. Seed money everywhere and eventually one of your turtles will make it to the ocean.
Daniel Tutt wrote an article on MAGA Communism, which is interesting because he has debated Haz and been on Midwestern Marx before. He critiques them as typifying "the political irrationalism of a Gen Z alienated from the existing left" and as a "fight-flight" and dependent group, drawing on the work of psychoanalyst Wilfred Bion. The basic argument is that such groups attract people fleeing a "winner-loser" society – which emerges from the liberal tendency to deny class, poverty and inequality in politics (which is everywhere, so Democrats call Trump's supporters "losers" and the right calls the left "weak / soyboys") – but end up reinforcing market logic and authoritarian dependency within the group.
>In our age of extreme class stratification and inequality, the winner-loser myth is a near-inescapable commonsense on both the political right and left. Political communities sprout that openly embrace the winner-loser myth to confront the resentment and alienation of capitalist society. To internalize the winner-loser myth is to affirm as natural a society governed by aggression and resentment. This is why, as the psychoanalyst Wilfred R. Bion points out in his studies on groups, political communities form to allow members to flee this sense of persecution. In his Experiences in Groups, Bion describes a similar logic of group belonging, in what he calls the “fight–flight group.” Here, group members identify with a leader by forming a dependency structure that is violent and exclusive. The emergent fight–flight group affirms the zero-sum logic of the capitalist market interior to the group, but it does so on terms that are perceived as fairer and more satisfying than mainstream groups, such as the school, the church, or the army.
>In the fight–flight group, the leader plays the role of forming an artificial environment in which the competition of the wider society is reenacted within the group, but on terms that are more transparent. Like the Nietzschean community which affirms the winner-loser myth by active separation and division from those deemed weak or inferior, the fight–flight group does the same thing, but they rely on a leader to enact this separation from the wider society. The fight–flight group thus sustains the winner-loser mythology by rejecting the dominant liberal version and fortifying the community as a perfect alternative to it. Problems inevitably arise within the fight–flight group because the leader, as a savior figure takes it upon himself to perform victoriously against a hostile world. The fight of the group thus becomes the reserve of the leader alone and they leave little to no room for group members to enact their power. This results in the inability of the fight-flight group to satisfy the independence of each member, and they become what Bion refers to as a “dependent group.” A dependent group is formed around a leader whose authority is taken to be benevolent but who remains the only actor within the group that can confront the hostile outside world.[…]
>Unless you have chosen to go full “grill pilled” and gone offline, the parasocial left is inescapable. And if you are on the online left, the MAGA Communist movement will inevitably enter your picture at some point. My engagement with the MAGA Communists started when I quote tweeted Dugin’s appearance with Haz and Hinkle in Russia. I pointed out a series of contradictions in the Marxism espoused by MAGA Communists. Although my criticism was relatively mild, the Guerillas swarmed on me with passionate defenses of Haz. One thing led to another, and they taunted me to debate him, going so far as to suggest that if I backed down from the debate, I would only confirm that I am a “soy leftist professor.”
>What I pointed out to the MAGA Communists is that they resemble a dependent group, as Bion theorizes it. We recall that the fundamental weakness of the dependent group is found in the members’ reliance on the alpha leader. Bion helps us to locate the fatal flaw of the dependent group in the way that aggression persists amongst its members due to their reliance on the leader. This reliance is ambivalent, while the leader is celebrated as the only one who can enact an alternative to the winner-loser reality of liberal society. The fact that the leader is taken to be the only one who can perform and be the winner ends up stunting the independence of each member.
>So, I decided to engage the MAGA Communists and to appear on Haz’s show. The event was livestreamed on Haz’s Kick channel (an alternative to YouTube for dissidents on the right and the left). Death threats were exchanged between Infrared Guerillas as well as pro-trans and LGBTQ leftists. Just one day before the debate, a close friend of mine alerted me to a meme that Infrared had promoted during Pride Month that openly advocated the extermination of gay people. As a result of this tension, going into the debate, I felt obliged to address the importance for Marxists to embrace LGBTQ people in the name of common dignity and in the name of de-intensifying the culture war aggression.
>I opened with this message because it is essential for Marxists to stand for the rights of LGBTQ people and to do so does not mean that one has somehow been co-opted by liberalism, bourgeois culture-war politics or leftism. But more importantly, I wanted to argue that because the MAGA Communists treat the online space as a battlefield with immense political stakes, they treat online politics are more real than offline politics. However, when death threats are made, and violence is encouraged, this theory suddenly is abandoned, and they end up backing away from the open embrace of violence and destruction. Would Haz and the Guerillas want to be responsible for actual chaos and violence, or are they ultimately LARPing? The good news is that Haz ended up encouraging the Guerillas to refrain from violent provocations with LGBTQ leftists, which could be taken as a minor success and sufficient reason justifying the debate.
>My rationale for taking part in this debate was influenced by the Marxist philosopher Gyorgy Lukács, who argued that fascism is an irrationalist epistemology that thrives on incoherent ideas. The Marxist sociologist John Bellamy Foster has argued that today’s left is witnessing the return of irrationalist theories and, like Lukács before him, Foster locates this return of irrationalism in the rise of imperialist wars and monopoly capitalism. Although I do not think the MAGA Communists are fascist in any clear sense of the term, I do believe that their movement poses a danger to the development of Marxism in our time. A Marxism that trades in openly chauvinistic, violent frameworks, and that theorizes Marxism as a warlike practice in the service of a new age of inter-imperialist warfare, is irrationalist. If it is successful, it will only further divide the wider left away from Marxism at a time when the practices of Marx and Engels are desperately needed for re-forging and organizing the working class. If irrationalist ideas are not openly debated and critiqued, they will only fester.
>Since my debate with Haz, the MAGA Communist movement has fused with the Midwestern Marx Institute to create the American Community Party (ACP) . The formation of the ACP has led the Guerillas to professionalize and, like Jordan Peterson, Haz frequently admonishes the Guerillas to take an active role in their community. But despite their professionalization, the ACP continues its daily, all-out assault on leftism which seems only to reinforce the culture-war inertia of bourgeois politics.
>The myth of the political loser is one of the great stumbling blocks obstructing the advancement of socialist politics in America. From the perspective of bourgeois politics, the myth must be internalized as reality. But when it is internalized, workers tend to see their condition as the immediate result of their performance on the market—as a success or a failure. This sparks a cycle of resentment in which alpha fight–flight communities inevitably sprout up to organize this collective disaffection. The left must never affirm this coding of people according to success and failure. To do so is to affirm a violent and competitive account of social reality which ultimately conceals the reality of class struggle. If the left does not address the psychic alienation that comes with automatically coding people as losers, they will have only frozen the class struggle, not advanced it. Because they have created a highly irrationalist account of Marxism, the first step to challenging a movement like MAGA Communism is to take them seriously at the level of their ideas. And the best antidote to addressing movements like MAGA Communism is not to dismiss them as losers, for to affirm the myth of the loser goes only to strengthen it and thus to foment even more reaction.https://muftah.org/2024/12/31/loser-politics/>>2100629Interesting points, but his bit about “If MAGA communism succeeds it’ll tear people away from Marxism when it’s needed” is something I personally disagree. At the risk of making myself guilty of the same winner-loser mentality that he’s talking about, if MAGA communism succeeds—which I want to make clear, I doubt it will—then what it proves is that they were
right. Ideas have to reckon with reality, and if socially-liberal Marxism as it exists in the West is fundamentally inert and incapable of motivating anyone toward change—where MAGACommunism isn’t—then it just proves that the critique that Leftism is more concerned with trans people than workers, that it’s filled with minority groups that push away the masses and fundamentally weaken the movement as a whole, then I’m sorry it’s just stating truth isn’t it?
Again I sincerely doubt MAGA Communism is going anywhere. But if this trend of various socialist groups moving away from social liberalism, and even expressing contempt for that same liberalism, results in actually attaining political power, then the way I see it, it’s just proving them to be correct.
>>2100711But might
does make right.
Communists seek to direct the might of the united working class to obliterate their opressors and class division entierly. If we cannot kill capital, it will kill us!
>>2100706I think it’s probably impossible to tell because Haz does the Trump thing of just exaggerating everything he says or does. I think some ACP people tried to claim he took half our membership, shit like “Everyone but one member of the Pennsylvania CPUSA went to the ACP!” Then people who were actually active in those clubs said, like “What are you talking about, we’re actually going to meetings, no one left.”
I think Patriot Front did something similar where they claimed to have over a thousand members but really just had 200 and were stagnating. I think that’s the ACP’s eventual fate.
>>2100719Aren't Americans in general tolerant of homosexuality to about the same degree Cubans are? Again, Haz and Hinkle lead an unpopular populist movement.
>>2100735The thing that bothers me is that they make numerical claims but never show the fucking numbers.
Real talk, I don't think I'd know any of these guys existed besides Hinkle if I didn't use this site, and even then, I only knew Hinkle because I listened to a rightoid podcast that talked about him like he was a freakshow attraction.
>>2100727capital, like cancer, only seeks self reproduction.
no matter if its growth ends up killing its host
>>2100711It might just be because I was hit and threatened a lot as a child, but time and again it seems like I’ve got to break this delusion that just because you’re in “the right” you’re going to win. It doesn’t matter how moral you are, if you’re fundamentally incapable of taking power then you’re not going to change anything.
>>2100715People always confuse “victory” with “being right.” Vae Victis tends to be how these affairs are sorted, it’s cruel, but reality doesn’t contort itself around what’s right or not. And it’s especially stupid because, if I remember right, Marx chalked the victory of the Proletariat up to numbers, not because they were morally “better” than the bourgeoisie.
Stop thinking about morals and start thinking about will. Do you think even for an instant “is this right?” Goes across the mind of the bourgeoisie, or is it just “will this work?” The idea of evil is a remnant of prior forms of morality that’s irrelevant to seeking political power. It encourages passivity as if “at the end” there will be some fucking justice—a laughable concept if you’re a materialist. Kissinger lived to 100, got his dick sucked, and was rich till the day he died. He didn’t “lose” at all. And what do you think is gonna happen to all those trots turned neocons? Shit if you’re a religious person I don’t blame you for this mindset, but if you’re trying to claim you’re some purely materialist atheist, then it’s ridiculous.
Let me give another example: I remember reading there was some religious movement among Natives during manifest destiny. They would gather together to do some ritual dance that they’d hope would get their gods to flood the country, sparing the natives and driving out the colonists: what do you think happened when they all gathered together for their ritual? TL;DR they were shot. Colonization continued.
You don’t have to like the results. You don’t have to do something just because “it’s the winning side”, but drop this idea that ideas matter if they can’t seize power.
>>2100761But there is no goal to capital. It is not a person.
It doesn't desire growth any more than gravity have a desire to pull.
>>2100788There's no goals to people either, there's shit that's necessary for survival and past that there's inner states that decide do random shit in hopes of discovering something cool. For Marx capital was mechanistic, mainly cause industrializion, big heavy machines, gears, smoke, sound of grinding metal and rhytmic pulse of engines were the characteristic scenery of his time. Using the metaphors available in the environment he tried to construct a working theory of the larger system he was part of. Now, over 100 years later it's pretty clear that the machine metaphor for capital is not the whole picture. It has grown eyes and ears and planted them to every home, it has spun a nervous system that spans the globe, it is reactive, adaptive and hungrier than ever and we are it's food.
Surely it may kill the planet if it's not stopped, but have you considered that that might not be the
worst outcome?
>>2100782Ah, my apologies. I’ve had to argue with Anarchists before in cases where I’ve claimed Anarchist military/political failures are an indictment of their ideology’s program unless they address those failures and learn from them.
I was told that I’ve got to support the Nazis then, because they had military success. I told them they’re fucking retarded. In my view, it’s more morally damning to lose and condemn your people to fascist slavery because you stubbornly stuck to your principles than to win at the cost of compromising your morals. To me it comes across like they were admitting their ideas didn’t work, but they’d condemn thousands to die again and again rather than do anything different.
There was this manosphere guy I heard quote a study, which I’m not even sure is real or not, but he claimed that it’d ask young men what they’d do if some man walked up and spat in their mother’s face, and to his consternation something like 30% of them said “I’d try to figure out why he was angry.”
And that’s fucking stupid. If a man spits in your mother’s face, you knock his teeth out. If the Nazis invade your country, your only question should be how to defeat them, not “why are they doing this?” You can ask that later.
>>2100800t. nick land
Seriously though it is straight forward. If a business doesn't make a profit it collapses and the humans can no longer make a living in the larger economy. This motivates all the people under capitalism to strive for growth no mater how destructive. Capitalism doesn't need to be a living entity with motivations and there is no need to mystify it's processes.
>>2100828Even if she could defend herself why wouldn't you join in on her side and beat the shit out of him in retaliation?
>>2100821>If a man spits in your mother’s face, you knock his teeth outThe actual good reaction depend on the context. It's counterintuitive but you should try and descelate when it's possible. You want to avoid getting either of you avoiding physical harm. You try to push your mother out of hamr's way then yourself. Because from your mom perspective, being spat in the face is still better than having your own kid being actually wounded
You only resort to violence once it become inevitable.
>But ur a numale cuck beta soy whatever buzzwordpic rel
>>2100850*you want to avoid physical harm for either of you
it's late where i live
>>2100836The mystification is a metaphor and all human cognition works by metaphors. Describing capitalism as evolving entity is more powerful than describing it as a stone rolling down a hill, since there's no definite end state for capitalism, there's no reason why it couldn't mutate into something bit more stable but still exploitative and characteristically capitalist. I know the common view is that capitalism is doomed and somehow we have this complex system modeled so good that we know it will collapse any minute now. That just isn't good science. Capitalism follows nonlinear dynamics by design, and maths for that didn't even exist back when Marx was figuring shit out. We cannot predict the end state for the world economy any more than we can predict the weather 5 years from now.
The fact that capitalism isn't stable doesn't necessarily mean it will collapse.
>>2100850This actually makes sense
>>2100821>There was this manosphere guy I heard quote a study, which I’m not even sure is real or not, but he claimed that it’d ask young men what they’d do if some man walked up and spat in their mother’s face, and to his consternation something like 30% of them said “I’d try to figure out why he was angry.”Play stupid games,win stupid prizes. This is why I dont fuck with manosphere or it's SJW counterpart. It makes these rhetorical scenarios expecting people to react exactly the same and get upset when the results don't turn out like that. Especially since such scenarios are often in pen and paper and being asked such a question would make people feel like there's a catch.
Because questionnaires are often used as means to mock/patronise others.
>And that’s fucking stupid. If a man spits in your mother’s face, you knock his teeth out. If the Nazis invade your country, your only question should be how to defeat them, not “why are they doing this?” You can ask that later.Fair point but the way you frame your answer sounds like how reactionaries would guilt trip people.
>>2100843based mom
>>2100850What you are saying is might be the "correct" way for dealing with the assault in liberal societies but is it the really the best way for humans to deal with the situation? The state tries to maintain it's monopoly of violence and stop situations from escalating so it can squeeze out more labor from citizens. That's the only reason it pretends to enact "Justice." However your family was assaulted not the state and the chances of the state actually doing it's supposed job depends on the situation.
People should probably just be armed in pubic and go out in larger groups to prevent such situations. Counting on some random cop to come in to the rescue and you will end up set on fire riding the trai.n.
>>2100828Hey to each their own my man, if your response to a man assaulting your mom is to do nothing, then that's your life. I'm content being the rabid dog if you're content being the pussy.
>>2100831I know, but they were trying to make the case that either you accept being fundamentally unable to effect lasting change for more than a couple years or you become a full-blown Nazi.
I've read a little bit about Anarchist military performance in the Spanish Civil War. It really wasn't that good. Apparently they had literal weekend warriors who'd go to the front for two days, then get bored and leave.
Point being, it's incredibly important to think through "How will we win and keep power". Being able to achieve victory and keep it is one of the singularly most important aspects of any political ideology.
>>2100882Where did I say I'd do nothing? I'd actually find it really hard not to react
somehow. What that reaction is, idk, haven't happened yet. It's just funny how not activating your fight and flight response every time there's a slight sign of aggression is somehow cowardly. Like dude chill, angry people might not be a threat, and even if they are, you can surely take couple extra punches to make sure.
>>2100883You are right, most people are cowed by a criminal or aggressive behavior because it is easy to be passive as they are actively taught do be passive from childhood and they don't have the means to defend themselves even if they wanted to. All these issues should be addressed otherwise you might end up a victim of crime and can do nothing but hope for the best after it's done.
>>2100891Have a weapon and transhumanist with it then you wont be the one in a wheelchair.
>>2100882>>2100899<I feared for my life, officer.Just remember this sentence if you need to defend yourself, anons
>>2100928*Trai.n with it
lol
>>2100928strange
transhumanist
transhumanistspotting
>>2100821> If a man spits in your mother’s face, you knock his teeth out. oh hell nah i aint goin to jail for 10 years over some saliva on that old hoe's face. if someone spits in her face she probably started it fr fr.
if she wanted a bodyguard type son she shoulda borted my ass and got pregnant by a different type of mf
>>2100696>At the risk of making myself guilty of the same winner-loser mentality that he’s talking about, if MAGA communism succeeds—which I want to make clear, I doubt it will—then what it proves is that they were right. But see here Haz is funny, because he has different definitions of success than you do, so when asked about MAGA Communism, he says he doesn't want to use the term anymore because it has already succeeded, because Trump won. But I'm thinking of that Simpsons bit where Leonard Nimoy shows up and is like "my work here is done" and Barney goes "what do you mean, you didn't do anything" and he replies "didn't I?" But Haz will also say, wokeness is finished so that's why we won. Then I read that AOC removed pronouns from her bio. Okay, but AOC isn't an ACP member and they didn't invent disliking pronouns in bios.
Anyways, what I liked about the Daniel Tutt article is that it's just as much about the psychology of people drawn to this group as what the group believes. He argues they're basically victims of capitalism too and seeking an escape, but they more or less replicate the logic of the market society within the group. Reading about W.R. Bion's descriptions of a "fight/flight" groups also jutted out because of how I've seen them behave on X. You should see how they responded to a Vijay Prashad tweet a few days ago, it was like dozens of them trying to fight him, a few using racist slurs. They will organize that in Discord, but what Bion suggests is that the need to work out aggression is the reason why they're in the group in the first place. People don't join the ACP because it's the most effective group to get anything done, but because of unrecognized anxieties – underlying fears, insecurities, and triggers – causing them to seek out a leader to protect them from anxiety, and who can mobilize them to attack some common enemy. I think the fact that they can be homophobic, racist, etc. is not actually surprising because those are just another set of weapons for the purposes of being aggressive.
On the aesthetic side of it too, it's interesting to me how much of their "dark futurism" aesthetic emulates the fantasies of the powers-that-be. People argue about identity politics in these threads, while I find the homophobia (despite being personally on their enemies' list) much less disturbing (listen… I've seen it before) than the really mentally-ill stuff that can be found just by looking at their feeds where it's just dreams of war and a million corpses, blood, blackshirted OMON-type police forces marching down the street, all kinds of evil. Then seeing how their goals are further defined, it's in the need to reject the left because the left is not capable of waging a huge war, which is where existing governments are all leading us anyways. Then once their march to power, there will be heavy restrictions placed on all kinds of expression (needless to say this targets sexual minorities in particular but one would be deluded to think it wouldn't sweep up all kinds of people, including many of the people in their own group sooner or later), massive censorship and bans on websites, the construction of vast labor camps, and probably smashing people in them with sledgehammers.
>>2100779>Ideas have to reckon with reality>>2100779>I’ve got to break this delusion that just because you’re in “the right” you’re going to win … Stop thinking about morals and start thinking about will … You don’t have to do something just because “it’s the winning side”, but drop this idea that ideas matter if they can’t seize power.I think what the materialist conception of history teaches is that the world of people is not ruled by ideas, but by certain economic laws. So one the implications of this is that your party might have certain ideas and not be able to come to power if the conditions don't allow for it. But that's also okay. Karl Marx could be like this too. There's one internal debate in the Communist League where he criticized efforts to drop the communism for a kind of "German national standpoint" that pandered to the nationalism of petit-bourgeois artisans, and he was like, nope, they're doing that because they think revolution is an effort of will and not the product of the reality of the situation, and they are attacking us because they want to make us unpopular, but we're not worried being unpopular.
>>2100735>Then people who were actually active in those clubs said, like “What are you talking about, we’re actually going to meetings, no one left.”Yeah I saw a pic of their state chapter where I'm at and it was, like, four people, and I didn't recognize any of them. Not that I know everybody but I think I would've noticed at least somebody if there was a huge split in the extant left.
>>2100751>Real talk, I don't think I'd know any of these guys existed besides Hinkle if I didn't use this site, and even then, I only knew Hinkle because I listened to a rightoid podcast that talked about him like he was a freakshow attraction.>>2100888>Why is H*z the one people here are obsessed with, when Hinkle's the one with far and away the larger audience?In the interview with the Eurasian Youth Union, Haz credited Hinkle with practically everything. Like, if it wasn't for Hinkle, there would be no party. So that's interesting. Presents a problem too because Hinkle is clinically insane. But if Bion suggests anything, it's that the "group makes the leader" more than the other way around. But there are conditions in which such groups will turn on their leaders and try to replace them, like if they fail to live up to their idealized image, or are unable to fulfill their emotional needs, etc. Maybe they will try to get rid of one and replace the other? However it turns out in the end, the group will likely be prone to a lot of instability.
>>2100940Sure and those people should already know they can't expect the state to get the criminal who attacked them either and they should already be prepared to protect themselves from the state as well. People in those positions already have no choice to be integrated into the black market, have some local gang connections for protection, have burner phones and disposable weapons , etc.
But my main point is that middle class liberals mistakenly think they are above this and that life is like an episode of Law and Order. They think the police are on their side, that the courts will give justice. that the police will save them. Leftist of all people should know this isn't true and that the bourgeois state has it's own agenda.
>>2100821>I’ve had to argue with Anarchists before in cases where I’ve claimed Anarchist military/political failures are an indictment of their ideology’s program unless they address those failures and learn from them. I was told that I’ve got to support the Nazis then, because they had military success. I told them they’re fucking retarded. Want to come back to this. Okay, the anarchists lost, but are you the modern-day heir of Marxist-Leninist glory? That's what Haz says he is. This is at least ridiculous and presumptuous. The Russian government is also trying to cash in on that with the Victory Day parades, but the more you know: Stalin actually canceled the parades in 1947 and they wouldn't be brought back until Brezhnev. I don't know why Stalin canned those celebrations, it might have been a justified concern about Bonapartist tendencies in the party, and it might be because military officers are a bunch of blundering morons, and soldiers a bunch of criminals, and while they won it was also a monumental fuckup in many ways with a lot of people dying because of the stupidity and mediocrity of their commanders.
But ideological people build wild cults around this stuff. We, the Marxist-Leninists have glorious traditions, great battles, and racks of chest-mounted medals, and the anarchists have… hmm. But maybe one counter is that these traditions were established by people at a lower level of development than us. That's one reason why I like Mao, he'd say, it's quite possible that people in the future will know more than we do and think we were a bunch of morons. And it might also take more courage to part with traditions and without any sentimentality towards, and that is necessary, because traditions are the main enemy of development. After all, the communists in Russia really got going when they personified the rebellion against the traditional (in their case Orthodox) view of the world.
>>2101243For sure, but the failures are things we try to learn from whereas in my experience Anarchists do a “stab in the back” myth about MLs to explain failures. Like an example I heard was basically, like, “The Red Army used conscripts while the Anarchists were all volunteers! Proving that the Red Army was more authoritarian and lied about Anarchists!”
Well okay, but the Nazis used conscripts too. Capital will conscript people to fight you. It sucks but one ideology (ML) was willing to fight fire with fire and the other stuck to its guns. The failure of Anarchists in the past seem far more catastrophic toward their own ideology than the failures of Marxism-Leninism.
>>2101126> People don't join the ACP because it's the most effective group to get anything done, but because of unrecognized anxieties – underlying fears, insecurities, and triggers – causing them to seek out a leader to protect them from anxiety, and who can mobilize them to attack some common enemy. I think the fact that they can be homophobic, racist, etc. is not actually surprising because those are just another set of weapons for the purposes of being aggressive.This is why I’m increasingly thinking some level of Socialist Sports Leagues would be a healthier outlet than another set of politics. Like Sports in general seem to be a way for people to channel aggression. It’s something some coworkers of mine have noticed. People like me, Yknow, I've got the right “body” for Football, but I don’t have that aggression in me. There’s little guys who are just full of piss and vinegar, and they’re going in there throwing themselves at people. A guy I worked with before did football and wrestling, and he had BPD and despite being bubbly and nice most days, he apparently would talk mad shit in football—supposedly once played against Arnie’s kid and asked if he was the affair baby or the other one.
Point being it’d be better if they could get their rage out like a tennis player smashing his racket than some fucking internet psycho.
>>2101724I think a lot of it depends. Conscription I believe works in cases where governments have more legitimacy/less of a record of failure, or when popular support for a war is high: Yknow there’s this anecdote of Americans being so hyped to go to world war 2 that they knew guys who literally killed themselves if they got rejected from the army; yet you still had a draft. By contrast, the Vietnam War was wildly unpopular and killed conscription in the U.S. I think it’s the difference between “The government that helped us through the Great Depression wants us to fight a bunch of Japanese that attacked us and their German friends.” And “The government wants me to go die in a jungle in Vietnam because… something about some South Vietnamese? Fuck that, I wanna do LSD and party.”
As long as the state gives you a specific reason to fight, one that is justified to you, I think conscription work. The biggest issue is when it’s a state that’s lost all legitimacy trying to do it. The topic of WW3 has come up a few times, most of the libs I know have basically said “Fuck that.” I’ve reiterated that this government has done absolutely nothing for me and those I know, so I see no need to defend it. My lolbert friend is hoping for WW3 just so the state collapses and he can live his post apocalyptic fantasy, and the generic right wingers I work with said they’d volunteer; less out of a sense of duty and more “Ill get to kill people” and because they buy into the “hard times makes strong men” shit. But I don’t think any of them have this sense of propriety or duty that would motivate them to fight for the state, it’s all just alienation and nihilism.
>>2106604I've been wondering for a while now what went "wrong" with H*z. And I think there's an explanation other than the usual
>He's always been a narcissistic rightoid grifter charlatan pseudLike sure maybe. But that's the easy way out and while it's one explanation, I think we can do better.
If we assume h*z = Rafiq, there is a familiar pattern shared among similar ("""socialist""") cult leaders.
Like, contrast say H*z to someone like Marx, Lenin, Engels… What's the difference? It's not reading. They all read. It's not being a stereotypical prole and working in a factory. None of them really were. It's not ambition or lack thereof. Lack of pussy? Well H*z isn't an incel either.
But I can spot one major difference; Marx, Lenin and Engels, whilst they did build on the work of their predecessors, they also wrote and expanded on theory. They weren't merely reading from scripture. They weren't priests. And for the most part they weren't concerned with
orthodoxy. They thoroughly analyzed the world they found themselves in, and extrapolated based on their findings. They weren't mere contrarians competing for being the most edgy voice on the left.
The only time H*z/Rafiq has ever written anything remotely profound was in relation to the question of property under communism and his whole rant about "Ecologism". And this is ancient history at this point. Way back during his revleft days (something he doesn't want anyone to find out about) And a lot of it is stuff he no longer agrees with nowadays.
Haz doesn't analyze for the sake of, he's not interested in theory, except as a cudgel to beat his opponents with. He aims only to win "the debate" like so many eceleb grifters. He doesn't value knowledge and understanding as an end in itself, nor does he feel a need to act responsibly with what he writes. It's all a game to him. And this also explains
>>2097637Contrast this to say David Graeber: Humble, and genuinely interested in finding out how the world worked. Or Cockshot.
Obviously the ACP will implode like all the other similar projects before them. But I think it helps to examine what truly sets apart "The Greats" from grfiters like H*z.
I've been going through a bunch of MAGAcom content recently, mostly out of morbid curiosity.
The first thing I noticed is that they fucking love shilling themselves. Subscribe to my YouTube channel! Watch me on Twitch! Have you seen this TikTok I made? Oh my god shut the hell up! It makes the whole thing smell like a grift, although I can't quite tell to what degree it actually is one.
The second thing I noticed was that much of their analysis was decidedly un-Marxist. A lot of their members subscribe to a crude collectivism, where the individual exists as a slave to society, as opposed to the proper Marxist sublation of the two, where the individual works for the collective and the collective works for the individual. I read an article by one of them saying that the state must uphold the will of the majority, but also that democratic majority rule is le bad (it never really says why), and that a popular will must instead be hoisted upon the populance through war and struggle, maybe. It might be about how you can't get to socialism via democracy instead. It's kind of vague about what it's actually trying to say. Either way, it's complete nonsense at best, outright ᴉuᴉlossnW-tier fascism at worse.
And that's another thing. They're very bad at actually supporting their postions. One gets the impression that they're talking above themselves. A lot of their thought reads like the shit I'd post on 4chan when I was a teenager trying to sound smart. They treat assertion or (not necessarily and) citation as argumentation, and will often use linguistic tricks to sidestep actually having to say anything of substance. They debate like debatebros (because that's what they are), where the goal is for you to win and for the other guy to lose, as opposed to actually proving anything to anyone. They love to do the "you're wrong, therefore I'm right by default" thing, and it's infuriating every time they do.
They also love exaggerating their accomplishments. They claimed to be involved with the Amazon strikes, but as far as I can tell, they had fuckall to do with them beyond generic keyboard warrior "solidarity". The high bailiff guy is probably the most egregious example though. They acted as if it was a massive victory for the ACP, where this big, important figure in their party was making waves in politics. In reality, it was an extremely unimportant write-in only position that nearly nobody votes for, he didn't even win it by that much, and he was already involved in local politics before joining the ACP, with his victory likely having little to nothing to do with the party. The Midwestern Marx youtube channel posted a clip of (the English version of) Venezuelan state media calling him
>Someone who has been instrumental in trying to create peace and communication between Russia and the United States
and like, what the fuck are you talking about? I can assure you the percentage of the population who knows who even knows who Chris Helali is is a rounding error.
And that's the thing that really weirds me out; for some reason, state media outlets have taken a liking to them. It's nothing massive, but RT in particular has featured at least two of them as guests, one of them multiple times. And I can't really tell why they're doing it. Do they genuinely see them as allies? Or are they just trying to stir up shit in the US? Possibly both? This is honestly the only reason I pay these guys any mind. Someone seems to think they're valuable, and maybe I'm just a smug enlightened liberal, but it makes me very weary.
Overall though, my main concern with MAGAcoms is that they'll drag leftists that are sick of idpol into even more, arguably worse, idpol. They say that their goal is to draw in MAGA people, pushing them from MAGA to leftism, but in my experience, it's been the inverse, pushing leftists to MAGA, with most of their audience consisting of Stupidpol types who started with Reddit Leftism But Less PC and then gradually worked themselves to /pol/. I can say on my end that it most definitely would've suckered me in a decade ago!
>>2107694>most of their audience consisting of Stupidpol types who started with Reddit Leftism But Less PC and then gradually worked themselves to /pol/Based. I mean what more can you expect from Haz and Hinkle? Its sad to see how maupin, haz and hinkle could have worked as a team but now maupin is no longer a communist (he calls himself an innovationist) hinkle is living the Jack Ryan life and will probably outlive his usefulness in 2 years tops at which point he at best will become a max blumenthal type figure (irrelevant but quoted from time to time) or will go full schizo mode either into esoteric libertarian stalinism shilling VITA MALE VITALITY WITH ALEX JONES or abandon communism like he did with bernie movement and embrace hardcore trumpism/laroucheism or some peter thiel technocrat bullshit pushed by andreesen (bald faggot). You see jackson unlike haz and hinkle, is a model american man. He was blessed with good looks and this is why the russians + CIA are using him. If Patrick Bet-David, Joe Rogan or any other muskophile faggot seduces him with good PR and $$$, hinkle will fold like a house of cards. And trust me, they will try. They know hinkle loves the celebrity life and will be easily seduced with good offers. If hinkle sells out, Haz will probably end up in an insane asylum from having his whole world come crashing down. Either way, without hinkle, haz will be irrelevant. I want the ACP to succeed just for shits and giggles, but I have to admit, their movement is empty. Nobody outside of the infrared orbiters wants to join the ACP. All other leftists steer away from them due to the schismatic origins of the party and how they give off fashie vibes. Right wingers hate communism so none of them will join. Some libertarians did join because they say ACP's communism is not actually communism (quite telling really, like when hinkle went on OAN and the host was like "i don't think you're a communist"). Even then, I have seen people shilling the ACP on /pol/ as (i shit you not) an AUTHENTIC THIRD POSITIONIST PARTY. The shills specifically said to ignore the communism in their name as it's for PR reasons. I don't know who exactly is doing this, but I know for a fact people from haz's discor club recruit on pol by pretending to be nazis who "found the light" of true national socialism in the ACP. So it's either them, libtards looking to denigrate the ACP or legit fascists who see allies in the ACP (like that pozzerelli pozzaro guy i forgot his name who used to be a commie but joined the nine angels or whatever).
I couldn't find the exact thread, but this is good enough:
https://archive.4plebs.org/pol/thread/480433010/
>TLDR: magacommunism is a total dead end. Maupin was kinda right to abandon the title communism but at this point, no materially communist movement will thrive in america because the grift today is technocrat finance + crypto bro - ism and being a trump orbiter. If I had to make a thesis: Reaganomics will be making a comeback and trump will facilitate an even greater oligarchisation of america with canada, greenland, defense contracts on china etc where communism will further fade into obscurity. Doesn't help that most communism is stuck in the 90's and will continue to elicit reactions of oldfaggery in the normies (its just not fashionable anymore) and any socdem bullshit or anything that falls short of communism will just be a compromise with capitalism.
>TLDRRRR: Its over, capitalism won. Communism will not save human society, humanity will go the way of the dinosaurs. Look out for yourself and those you love, there is no hope under the dollar sign. >>2107694>Overall though, my main concern with MAGAcoms is that they'll drag leftists that are sick of idpol into even more, arguably worse, idpol. They say that their goal is to draw in MAGA people, pushing them from MAGA to leftism, but in my experience, it's been the inverse, pushing leftists to MAGA, with most of their audience consisting of Stupidpol types who started with Reddit Leftism But Less PC and then gradually worked themselves to /pol/. I can say on my end that it most definitely would've suckered me in a decade ago!I mean, is there any other place for the “anti-idpol” leftists to go? I hate to say it but the pro-idpol people explicitly, not implicitly,
explicitly push others to these groups. They’re really on top of purging people they dislike. If we’re talking offline, I know some folks that got purged from a Maoist group just for saying they’re sick of the “Settlers” rhetoric. Online I’ve seen people banned from forums barely tangentially related to socialism because they posted on Stupidpol once or twice. Shit, on here I’ve been told that I’m a genocide apologist and I should join the cops, the Klan, or the Nazis because I had the gall to… say a Democrat laughing about white male suicides and saying they’re a good thing was alienating.
For as much as the idpol left hates the anti idpol left and vice versa, they feed into each other. And plenty of idpol leftists make it clear: they’d rather have a Nazi whose violently opposed to them then a socialist who mildly disagrees with them.
>>2107694>It's kind of vague about what it's actually trying to say. Either way, it's complete nonsense at best, outright ᴉuᴉlossnW-tier fascism at worse.Red on the outside, brown on the inside. I haven't used the word "fascism" because it's so over-used, and I don't think most of them consciously think of themselves as fascist (or maybe not… see below), but people can easily delude themselves, and the unconscious drivers or psychological impulses are there for a group of disillusioned zoomer ex-social democrats.
>I read an article by one of them saying that the state must uphold the will of the majority, but also that democratic majority rule is le bad (it never really says why), and that a popular will must instead be hoisted upon the populance through war and struggle, maybe.Fascism is a form of rule that aims to overcome the crisis of capitalism through imperialist war and the redivison of the world (which also fits the goals of state-monopolistic finance capitalism and large weapons conglomerates). What's interesting about them is that they throw in with the Russian camp on this question, but they also promote an American meme version of it (invading Canada, which they were pushing before Trump started doing it… interesting that), although I think they've liked to believe that Trump and Putin can make some sort of deal to divide the world peacefully, although I think they're probably wrong about that, so if they are wrong, it must come to a head eventually.
>They also love exaggerating their accomplishments.Theatrical over-advertisement of leaders as a way to maintain equilibrium between the contradictory elements of the group.
>And that's the thing that really weirds me out; for some reason, state media outlets have taken a liking to them. It's nothing massive, but RT in particular has featured at least two of them as guests, one of them multiple times. Yeah, Russia. It seems weird, but they might have an affinity with the National Bolsheviks in the 1990s and Stalinioid-sovok / monarchist coalitions that got together in the National Salvation Front to oppose breakaway Baltic republics and Boris Yeltsin. I don't think most of them know much about that, seems like (at the time) the ideological expression of discharged ex-soldiers and the Vilnius OMON. This is not the same thing as "Vladimir Putin," but an ideological construction by the Soviet / Russian deep state, which it was back then too, and elements of it were later co-opted in a different, compatible form in the 2000s by Putin when his people formed the "Nashi" group (no relation but hijacked from a short-lived group formed by the talented but unscrupulous populist Alexander Nevzorov in the 90s… in a plot twist he's now a Ukrainian citizen) and controlled opposition parties like Rodina (which had help from Sergey Glazyev who is a LaRouchefag), but really lives on today among the Stelkov types. Good post.
>>2107727>You see jackson unlike haz and hinkle, is a model american man. He was blessed with good looks and this is why the russians + CIA are using him.It's a sovok syndrome. They hate the West, but want to be loved by the West. So I think one reason why they like Hinkle is that he's a good-looking American man (in a stereotypical way) who tells them how great they are, and that real "patriotic" Americans are on their side, too. It's just how Washington D.C. functionaries love the idea of some oppressed babushka from Russia in some armpit oblast saying "Blen… I am oppressed by ze croool Putin dictatorship, me so hungry… pleeze America, send F-thirry-five Joint Strike Fighter."
>Even then, I have seen people shilling the ACP on /pol/ as (i shit you not) an AUTHENTIC THIRD POSITIONIST PARTY. The shills specifically said to ignore the communism in their name as it's for PR reasons.For PR reasons!!! In the United FUCKING States of America? Are you shitting me, that is what they say? That's funny.
>or legit fascists who see allies in the ACP (like that pozzerelli pozzaro guy i forgot his name who used to be a commie but joined the nine angels or whatever)James Porrazzo. He also used to be (or still is) a white-power skinhead Nazi, not a communist, and led a neo-Nazi group called the American Front after the previous leader was murdered. Then he went to prison, got out, and started to hang around that pro-DPRK cult of wicca-worshipping federal agents.
>>2107735>The east is red you westoid doomer. China will save the worldChinese social media nuked Hinkle's accounts so you might just be right, anon. At least, I hope so.
>>2107694>as opposed to the proper Marxist sublation of the two, where the individual works for the collective and the collective works for the individualThis isn't the proper Marxist perspective at all. There is no such thing as a clear boundary between "individual" and "collective". As social beings one cannot separate community, social relations (both to others and the mode of production as a whole) and the environment from "who we are" as "individuals".
>it's complete nonsense at best, outright ᴉuᴉlossnW-tier fascism at worse.On this however I agree. And especially
>They also love exaggerating their accomplishments.I recall someone here raising the question of how many members they really have. And here is something very curious:
If you check their website, they openly state two things: One about how chapter membership is verified by a "blockchain" and on another page how the party is not engaged in any form of monetization, fund raising, or dues paid by members.
How do you become a member?
By joining a Telegram group. But when you check the individual chapters months go by in between new members joining, yet some of them have 1000 or more members. But the party was only founded recently?
So I did
>They say that their goal is to draw in MAGA people, pushing them from MAGA to leftism, but in my experience, it's been the inverseH*z' interview early last year (linked itt) with a rep from the Eurasian Youth Movement was especially bad. He's pretending America is actually closer to being asiatic than European and America at its heart is also autocratic and how all of this is some positive thing. And basically this shit has nothing to do with communism anymore.
Like you have Hinkle on twitter promoting Andrew Tate. Wtf?
But the biggest red flag (lol) is the fact they do no fundraising, no monetization, hinkle has been banned and had his channels demonetized, infrared is no longer active, they have no paid dues, but their higher ups are going on international trips whilst also doing doing expensive charity hand outs including in the Donbas. It doesn't add up.
The only person who might be supporting them financially that I can think of is that wrestler dude who has millions of views on tiktok, but after checking on how tiktok monetization works, there's no way he's earning enough (something like 50-100k a year) to support H*z on top of higher ups, the events they're doing, their printed mag issues (which from I understand are basically free, thus costing them thousands of dollars at minimum per issue) and numerous international trips (from what I was able to find out H*z traveled to Russia twice last year).
Where are the funds for all this coming from? >>2107837>10 minutes inI love how he's implying Hassan is privileged and an elitist. But they both are.
H*z has never worked a day in his life outside of doing PR for his cult and letting his sycophants worship him. He's from an upper class background (dad owns a large construction firm) like Hassan, pretends to be a Muslim when he ridiculed religion for years and grew up a Maronite, and was supported by his parents for years.
Hearing him talk I get the feeling he may very well be but a witless plaything or useful idiot, and everyone around him are the real card carrying glowies and outright double agents. (Hinkle, Helali) Speaking of which, how are Hinkle and Helali earning a living nowadays? I know Hinkle used to show up on RT. But what does he do outside of that? Dude on the left by the way is the only one whose source of income I was able to trace.
Rest of the stream is more eceleb/geopol shit.
>Threat to the systemHe's not wrong. But this appeal to persecution is getting kinda tiresome. Hassan isn't a threat, but he doesn't pretend to be as far as I know either. His only radical shtick is being pro-Gaza, but I think even the most rabid zionists out there know better than to de-platform a guy for raising money for the red cross. It'd be very bad publicity. Meanwhile openly "supporting" Russia is low hanging fruit and they'll make life difficult if you do it
Try joining Hezbollah however or send money to Hamas, and they'll end you..
Instead of all this eceleb nonsense H*z should be talking about what they're doing to develop socialism in America in ways which threaten American Capital. Also what is their line going to be when the Trump admin stops cracking down on "MAGAcom" as long as the go along with "anti-woke" expansionist agenda?
>>2107941Hinkle reminds me of JD Vance in a way. WASPy ambitious former radical turning increasingly "conservative" for no apparent reason.
>>2107970>WASPy ambitious former radical turning increasingly "conservative" for no apparent reason.tailism.
the mindset is that "the people" (petty booj suburbanites) are becoming "less degenerate" (more reactionary) and we must prove we are "with them" (spineless little kowtows).
>>2107813Spanky Tanky
>>2107829A friend of mine who is close to Douglas Macgregor said he has good intel that Hinkle (specifically) is a Tulsi agent and he is in russia for like months now to act as a liason between the new trump admin and russian negotiators. He also said that trump knows hinkle (even tho they never met each other) and trump is utterly confused by his politics and is rumored to have said "he must be one of the good deep state guys like Q".
>>2107941>Roger StoneYou think he will pimp out his wife like Roger?
<Picrel>>2107970>>2108056>He's from an upper class background (dad owns a large construction firm) like Hassan, pretends to be a Muslim when he ridiculed religion for years and grew up a MaroniteI remember that anon who said he went to university with haz and said how he would always get into fights with the prof over stupid bullshit. And yes, he was a maronite pretending to be a muslim for keks.
>>2108103I remember watching a haz stream when "Jennifer" donated $1000 dollars and haz had a euphoric meltdown. I wonder whether she regrets it or not (she even left a message saying: you need this money more than I)
>>2108095He's good looking and has an interesting life
>Most of usI've always felt leftypol is among the most "grass touching" imageboards around. I don't think most of us here are incels. (I hope)
>>2108129>Tulsi agentNot surprised. In general the timing of H*z recent trip is interesting too.
Hinkle's definitely the most openly "glow" member among them. He's got connections everywhere, politics all over the place. Ambitious, but also not clear how he's earning all this money allowing him to travel all around the world regularly when he's been demonetized and de-platformed almost everywhere. The latter probably makes him more useful too as an asset because at first glance it makes him appear like a trustworthy outsider.
Like I don't know if H*z is stupidly naive or only pretending not to see this. But considering his history of failing to grasp social cues, It wouldn't surprise me if its the first. Like I don't think H*z is autistic. But he always seems very insecure, humorless, yet also appears to feel oddly obliged to placate others to the point he says dumb shit like the time he was talking to that black nationalist about reparations, or his interview with the Eurasian Youth Movement.
Someone very prone to flattery and being made to feel important. In short, someone highly susceptible to becoming a clueless asset.
>>2107970>how are Hinkle and Helali earning a living nowadays?This might just be shitposting but pretty random.
>>2108101The Russian version of Cosmopolitan (Stalin would be rolling in his grave!) spoke to his Russian ex recently, and she said he was really persistent in contacting Russian models, and after she dumped him, he would go after other ones. Her time with him in Miami was horrible, and there was a funny anecdote where he proposed to her at some fetid swamp because he thought the spot looked good from a picture and she got bit by mosquitos. That's also just Florida but it's a funny image.
>>2108129>A friend of mine who is close to Douglas Macgregor said he has good intel that Hinkle (specifically) is a Tulsi agent and he is in russia for like months now to act as a liason between the new trump admin and russian negotiators. This sort of backchannel thing is reminiscent of LaRouchies as well.
>>2108293Really make you think
>>2108305I do wonder what they're gonna do with H*z once he "outlives his usefulness"
>>2108450>People make leaders more than the other way aroundThis. Power is more often given than taken.
Trump's power came from the pre-existing indignation.
>>2108454This is a former member as of a few weeks ago. What stands out to me is her criticizing Hinkle for "promoting chaos." That's very interesting to me. But it makes sense that people join groups and (more pathological) cults to reduce the feelings of chaos and uncertainty in their lives and in the world. We live in a world that feels completely outside of our control and in which regular, apocalyptic disasters are happening constantly. But Hinkle does not provide what people like her are looking for, so even though Hinkle might in some sense be "necessary" for the group (money), his antics are also counterproductive in doing anything productive (or at least not productive for these shattered, traumatized people). An interesting behavior the ACP demonstrates: conflict avoidance. They do "fight" online, but their IRL activity so far (as a group) have been things like charity. Their whole political theory also rests on avoiding conflicts with the political right.
W.R. Bion also talked about "pairing" groups which is a bit weirder. The basic assumption is that the group expects the birth of a Messiah from two of the group members (whom the group imagines as having sex with each other – this is very Freudian) who will solve all of their problems. Note that Bion did not believe the pairing had to be of opposite sexes. The Messiah does not have to be a person either btw, but could be a new idea ("brainchild") which will solve everything. "MAGA Communism." That's how they rationalize Hinkle's antics, it's all part of this galaxy-brained idea to convert MAGA people into communists.
Also notice the emphasis in the group on the "traditional family." Pairings, couplings. (Bion said this kind of behavior is also common in therapeutic cults.)
This is an exaggerated form of normal human behavior. For example, there ware X-Files fans who both loved the show but were also frustrated by crappy plot lines or whatever, so they would start fantasizing about Mulder and Scully having sex and writing fanfiction, as if their favorite couple getting together would make the show/movie/whatever be so much better. They're usually wrong because when that actually does happen it's a huge letdown which leaves the fans bitter about it.
>>2108450>Hinkle is the conduit for glow fundsI never considered it may indeed have been Hinkle bankrolling the entire party all along
It would make sense considering the general strangeness of his lifestyle, career trajectory and elite connections.
It also makes me wonder if this whole "the party is a business" stuff is a smokescreen for people like Hinkle funding the party with glow money through shell companies. And considering how as Rafiq he despised the petite bourgeoisie, I wonder if Hinkle himself parsed the idea to him too.
Imagine if the one of the ranking members of the CPUSA or PSL or even a major DSA chapter had connections to the incoming director of National Intelligence. People's glowdars would go off immediately. This feels even more blatant and outrageous than the Proud Boys or Black Hammer.
>>2108498"Childish at best"
Adults are the ones who create chaos though?
Children merely reflect it?
Also, "anarchist at worst"?
She looks down on anarchists? Even though leftism talks about overthrow of the current world order?
>This is an exaggerated form of normal human behavior. For example, there ware X-Files fans who both loved the show but were also frustrated by crappy plot lines or whatever, so they would start fantasizing about Mulder and Scully having sex and writing fanfiction, as if their favorite couple getting together would make the show/movie/whatever be so much better. They're usually wrong because when that actually does happen it's a huge letdown which leaves the fans bitter about it.This.
Fans will bitch about the story remaining the same mood, complain about it changing, complain about main characters being OP
But then complain about when main characters aren't OP and/or die.
>An interesting behavior the ACP demonstrates: conflict avoidance. They do "fight" online, but their IRL activity so far (as a group) have been things like charity. Their whole political theory also rests on avoiding conflicts with the political right.That's actually a nice change of pace. Besides most fights nowadays are online or TV. Charity is the least any political org worth their salt should do
>>2108507Check the posts about their writing style similarities. And the way he uses bolded text. There's too many coincidences which line up.
>>2108498Tate himself is a few degrees removed from the Thiel Matrix. And the way he has (so far) avoided prosecution in Romania, combined with his rumored connections to European organized crime (Hello Gladio) is extremely sus.
Like why the hell would a communist promote Tate over Corbyn? Who is already an MP and has a long history of supporting the Palestinian cause and peace in Ukraine?
>Their whole political theory also rests on avoiding conflicts with the political right.Spot on.
>>2108547>That's actually a nice change of pace. Besides most fights nowadays are online or TV. Charity is the least any political org worth their salt should doYeah, while I do think they're bad and I get judgemental about them, that can also inhibit understanding of the group psychology, and how the group might evolve or collapse. In some sense they might be fleeing from anxiety-producing conflict, which is also something that happens with cults like Black Hammer (which fantasized about creating a commune in a remote area called Hammertown or whatever), and white-nationalist groups that move to rural Idaho, although they haven't taken it that far. But mainly there might be a contradiction between the psychological needs of the individuals in the group and some of the group's basic assumptions.
>>2108552>Thiel MatrixI saw someone yesterday talking about Thiel's interest in Greenland as being some Bitcoin libertarian thing, but I haven't looked into it. Like setting up some private Randian state there, but I haven't looked into it. So less direct annexation of Greenland, but independence from Denmark and then the Thiel Matrix would move in. Greenland is also dependent on Denmark for a significant percentage of its economy, apparently. It's a small population, only around 60,000 people live there.
>>2109157
>revolutionary Of course the BSW is not a revolutionary party. Revolutionary parties are illegal in Germany. They would have been outlawed, banned from elections and their assets seized with 2 weeks if they were.
>their electoral strategy is backing merkel's party They have strong-armed the CDU into entering an unholy coaltion in one East-German state and successfully undermined their defense and foreign policy on the federal level that way. Now they can't be overly attacked by lawfare and feds because within a single year they entered governments so fast they control one of the German state-level intelligence agencies as a governing party.
>china won't even send them support despite their program basically advocating for german socialism with chinese characteristics The BSW foreign policy chief, among others a contributor for Multipolarista/Geopolical Economy Report was literally a guest of honor during the last opening of the National People's Congress.
>>2097530Indeed, they are doing just that. In fact they are even exceeding prior estimates on that front.
https://www.stern.de/politik/deutschland/sahra-wagenknecht-kostete-afd-mehr-stimmen-als-angenommen-35357924.html>>2109179No, they are right now well-funded through a successful mass donation campaign. Why would they want to sabotage themselves and open up themselves to lawfare attacks? Their donations are already under extreme scrutiny with other parties accusing them of being 'paid by Russia' according to the candidate of the Green party and current vice chancellor which BSW forced to sign a cease and desist because of these false claims. BSW not taking shit and using the legal system for counter-lawfare is another characteristic it shares with ACP.
>>2109136>People will say the national socialism comparison is overwrought, which yes, it is, for the time being, so it is much more fitting to compare with something like LaRouchism, which started off as a trot cult and spiraled into "we're working with the Republican party and the cops against CPUSA"The Nazis were extreme racists but I read an essay by Gerhard Ritter the other night whose own explanation of the Nazis' appeal among ordinary people was by promising to resolve social polarization between left and right. So they'd get (or so they thought) the stuff about welfare and equality from socialism but also nationalistic Frog-hating "fighting words" from the right in a single package. Ritter was a monarchist FYI who "critically" supported the Nazis but didn't like certain plebian aspects of them, and eventually joined the Operation Valkyrie plot to kill Hitler, and was one of the few lucky ducks who wasn't executed for it.
>>2109164>To be charitable I haven’t seen ACP members with nunchucksI was laying out a theory in the other thread pulling from Daniel Tutt's recent article that the individuals in the group are probably incapable of it. At least on their own. Haz provides that for them by acting as the internet warlord who does battle on their behalf. In theory I suppose he might be able to drill his cult following in nuncuck practice and then sending them to (try to) bust up a DSA meeting but I would expect the individuals involved to be huffing into a paper bag from the anxiety while on the way there. Like, an enemy attacking you might be scary but they're just as scared at least and the psychological condition that drove them into such a personally disastrous situation has a whole bundle of emotions including fear and confusion.
But there's another thread for that so SAGE
>>2108498Here is what I know about the the whole ACP/MAGACommunism operation:
<1. Domestic Intelligence Operation code named "Manifesto-Destination" (yes it's retarded)<2. Carried out by Army PsyOps Department (Tulsi) (International) and Joint CTF Federal Agents (Domestic)<3. The case officer running the show is a certain James Crowder (no relation to the famous crowder) from the FBI, the overarching director is Tulsi<4. Jackson Hinkle has a really funny family secret that I don't want to reveal because the lady in question is pregnant and I will feel guilty if anything happens to the baby.<5. Haz's parents are Lebanese Maronites in the "construction" business (who left because of their relations to Israel)<6. Caleb Maupin made that weird video (I am not Jackson Hinkle) because he found out that Hinkle is a sheepdipped CIA SAC/PAG operative<7. Hinkle threatened Maupin and told him to drop the communism game or else ""They" would turn him into a "Agent Kochinski""<8. Most of the beef between Maupin and Haz was Hinkle's doing since all ACP/infrared/CPI people are on an NSA dragnet that James Crowder watches and he knew about it.<9. Hinkle tried to get Maupin to quit the spanky business, but Maupin pretended obliviousness<10. Haz is compromised because he did molly at a halloween party in 2021 and went crazy roid-sex-rage. There are videos and charmhole knows about this<11. The russian SVR knows about this plan because they are curating Donald Courtier and there are backchannel talks between Trump's people and Patrushev<12. Hinkle is in Russia as a liason. Grayson is close to Donald Jr and acts as a go between Trump camp and Hinkle<13. It was Tulsi's idea, she was close to Trump before the election<14. She is secretly on the side of Palestine and is aware of the Kahanist problem in Israel. She also is more pro-Iran and wants to replace the Muslim Brotherhood HAMAS with a pan-arab version of Hezbollah that will integrate with Israel (crazy idea but yes)<15. Trump is close to israel but he wants a more "Ytzak Rabin" type leadership under a one state Israelo-Palestinian arrangement. There is even a flag created for this state, made out of Purple and Yellow, with a Menorah in the middle and keffiyeh ornametation on the top and bottom. They will rename the place to Judea, but palestinians will be citizens as Judeo-Palestinians. Trump wants to build resorts in Israel on the coast.<16. The main goal of this OP is to facilitate backchannel communication outside of the state department between America and various "rogue" Countries. <17. Hinkle went to Venezuela as an envoy from Trump (he carried flash drives and email accounts/passwords for communication between Maduro and Trump)<18. Hinkle will go to North Korea on a similar mission sometime in mid-to-late 2025<19. Hinkle's videos where he is travelling are out of phase by a couple of days. He is usually back in Russia when he releases them.<20. The communism thing was Tulsi's idea since most of the "rogue" countries are united by communism historically or currently.<21. Hinkle is not a communist, he is an RFKJ type democrat but he is slowly moving into orthodox larpery with his new fiancee, that he met at the Russian MFA.<22. He has daddy issues and took roids while training with the CIA.<23. There is another mission developing which is to recruit constructive pro-communist conservative leaning citizens to the Trump camp to avoid revolution in the future. It's basically Red Putinism but for the US.<24. Trump's idea to take over Canada and Greenland was a long-term plan from the Joint Chiefs of Staff for arctic control. Jackson's idea to take over Canada was an information laundering operation to give the "idea" to the MAGA crowd.<25. Trump will take Greenland first, Canada will take 5 years to integrate, but military bases will commence construction. Icebreaker fleets with nuclear power are being developed as we speak but they will require reorganization in the nuclear energy sector.<26. Panama and Mexico are a distraction, the real deal is Canada and Greenland.<27. Bukele knows about Hinkle and is working with Trump. In the coming years, the carribean nations will unite into a EU type of organization from Mexico to Panama that will work with the US. <28. Panama canal will be under defacto US control at that point.Tl;dr It's a Trump plan to have a messenger network, the communism thing is just a distraction
>>2109316<Canada will have referendums to join the US on a province-by-province basis.none of the provinces will vote for that with the possible exception of alberta.
Plus the US already has arctic access through alaska
>>2109282What's better?
Newspapers at the Bus Stations vs Prime Minister Tate
>>2099860No, Hinkle is just very suspicious because of his background and how one day he has just decided he is a communist.
He does promote socialism in much the dame way Dugin does, however unlike Dugin, he has never demonstrated even a drop of knowledge about basic Marxism, so it is hard to take him seriously.
It is not neccessary that he is a fed, he could very well be a marxlarper and seek to extract money from supporters in much the same way tradlarpers do.
>>2109205>The Nazis were extreme racists but I read an essay by Gerhard Ritter the other night whose own explanation of the Nazis' appeal among ordinary people was by promising to resolve social polarization between left and right.Pretty sure I made that argument months ago, too. That part of Fascism’s original appeal was its “radical centrist” LARPing, that it used nationalism as a way of saying, like, “Hey we’re all on the same team! Left or right, you’re German/Italian and I’m German/Italian and we want to do what’s best for everyone here!”
Which is unironically one of the big weaknesses of modern fascism, it’s wholly a right wing ideology. I vaguely remember some Hitler speech shortly after he came to power where he said something along the lines of “The Germans not yet with us will eventually come to stand beside us.” The modern fash basically want to kill anyone unlike them and after the horrors of the Holocaust, appealing to a shared racial heritage will only ever appeal to, at most, maybe half of white people.
>>2109423Yeah. Fascists openly identifying as far rightists is a post-war phenomenon.
>>2109306<1<2<3That sound believable but, assuming this is true, how does this leak (like the name)? Like who's snitching on a domestic COINTELPRO-type op? I think the answer could be: they've already served their purpose in some important respect (like the establishing of a backchannel), and it's quite possible they'll burn some of their own assets in the process. Or at least if that happens, it shouldn't be a surprise.
<6Yes I remember that and he heavily implied Double-O-Steroid was an agent of some kind.
<14<15Yhe "state of Judea" with a menorah on it was a Kahanist idea (albeit the idea was to create a theocratic Jewish state in the West Bank, as Israelis refer to the southern part of it, and no keffiyeh) so that sounds delusional and retarded if not BS, though it doesn't mean there isn't such a plan, but even if so they're not the only ones with plans. The Israelis have their own plans.
<16That is totally believable and as mentioned many times was the same function of the LaRouchites in the 1980s.
<18Something to look for.
<20Also makes sense as a way to penetrate left-wing orgs for monitoring and disruption. The marks in the org don't have to realize this is what they're doing either, but can be told "hey, all that progressive/radlib stuff they're talking about… the WORKERS clearly don't like that… but while you're on our secret mission, you and I can help them and make the communism happen if you just report back on everything they're saying."
<21 Clearly not and makes me wonder if he'll drop the charade soon and just be a right-wing Orthofag.
<23I'm interested to see how that goes, and there is a model for it, but I wonder if they'll keep the communist branding or try to come up with something else. During Trump's first term, it seemed like they preferred to have a "communist" domestic enemy / strawman.
>>2109514>Yeah. Fascists openly identifying as far rightists is a post-war phenomenon.It's why I think fascist groups in Italy like Casapound are far more clever. They'll do wild shit like praise Fidel and Che and they've got local candidates running on a platform of corporatism.
It's also why the ACP is playing with fire in my opinion. You get Haz or Hinkle to start reading shit by Mosley or ᴉuᴉlossnW and I think they might mimic it.
>>2109306so lads, is this
>genuine glowie coming on leftypol to do limited hangoutor
>someone writing fanfiction >>2109306>There is another mission developing which is to recruit constructive pro-communist conservative leaning citizens to the Trump camp to avoid revolution in the future. It's basically Red Putinism but for the US.burger dengism is truly necessary for america to survive. you could already feel this brewing when hilldawg said "we have to take back the means of production" (from China) and Marco Rubio said "China has found a way to use capitalism against us."
It's Dirigisme or Bust. I say bring it on because re-shoring jobs that have long since gone to the 2nd world will recreate an industrial proletariat. They miscalculate if they think this will prevent revolution.
>>2109306sounds plausible but where are the PROOFS
<18. Hinkle will go to North Korea on a similar mission sometime in mid-to-late 2025will check up then
>>2109644I saw that happen to a guy once and it was scary crazy. Combined with Haz and I bet you'd get Hitler-in-the-bunker levels of aggression.
BTW, Hasan not too long ago was asked by one of Haz's followers at some public event about why he doesn't pay attention to them (or whatever) and he just said, basically, that it was a CIA op and dismissed the guy. Leftists like to call everyone they don't like CIA but I don't think Hasan normally does that? He's usually pretty responsible in his words. But makes me wonder whether word has been getting around with these better-connected people. The funny side story is that they make a big deal about having tough lawyers who will TAKE YOUR ASS TO COURT if you libel / slander / defame / say mean things about them online, and he said that about them in public over a microphone to one of those guys' faces, and they… didn't do anything about it (except whine on the internet).
>>2109694>they make a big deal about having tough lawyers who will TAKE YOUR ASS TO COURT if you libel / slander / defame / say mean things about them online, and he said that about them in public over a microphone to one of those guys' faces, and they… didn't do anything about it (except whine on the internet).Probably because they don't want info to get out. So instead they do these long ass streams for their followers complaining about Hassan. Whilst a lawsuit would cause their dirty laundry to be aired compromising the op. Like their whole argument boils down to Hassan glowing because he isn't demonetized whilst in the meantime the ACP is completely onboard with the plans of the incoming Trump admin and one of their members is close to the incoming director of National Intelligence.
>>2109306Also worth noting both Greenland and Canada have huge energy reserves. But I easily see this turning into
>Why stop at Canada and Greenland?It does feel like a big inter-glow conflict, where you have the state department old believers clinging to a "rules based liberal international order". And then you have these other younger glowies backed by the Thiel Matrix and other American oligarchs who want to go mask off American Empire because they feel the existing status quo isn't working vis-a-vis China and the CPC, and Direct Control is the only way to ensure their interests will not be threatened.
People should have seen it coming, but there's too much essentialism and people treating America like a monolith whilst projecting their Christian worldview on the rest of the world as a struggle between Good (Russia!) and Evil (The Core, or visa versa as in case of your average liberal). The latter is completely devoid of class analysis.
The people who said the American bourgeoisie would rather "burn down the world" than let their power slip away were right all along.
MAGA communism is based around the American and fascist glorification of what they consider "proletarian", i.e. the supposed beauty of the proletariat's exploitation.
Example:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proletarian_nationMAGAcoms think their glorification of "proletarian values" intrinsic to "our nation" makes them communists because communism is a proletarian movement.
In reality they are entirely focused on bourgeois aesthetics attached to the idealized version of the working class in their heads, rather than on the liberation of the working class.
>>2109306>ah.https://kick.com/infrared/videos/8a4ea0da-47db-4e54-82df-fb8fcc402662Watch from 51:00
Haz says
>With the exception of China, every other country is led by boomers and the MIC bought twitter (military bought twitter through Musk and Thiel) and they will use their power of hyperreality to attack these countries.Holy shit dudes.
Haz CIA Confirmed.
>>2109306><4. Jackson Hinkle has a really funny family secret that I don't want to reveal because the lady in question is pregnant and I will feel guilty if anything happens to the baby.Also, I'm guessing I know what this is but I also don't want to reveal it. Still kinda funny and I know why Jackson wants to keep it under wraps.
All I will say is: R C
>If you know, you know >>2110110Lol way to misconstrue what's been written here. Only a few are accusing them of being fascists.
They're a likely glow org with members with known ties to US intelligence agencies. These people are indeed a threat because they funnel naive socialists into a honeypot front.
>>2110085Besides the "who other than an ACP member is willing to sit through two and a half hours of H*z rambling" (or read the transcripts), the point being made ITT is not H*z himself being a fed, but rather him being an unwitting easily manipulated useful idiot who is rubbing shoulders with feds. (Hinkle, Helali)
>>2110130Also this
>We're only pretending>We're only trolling>Lol u took the bait>It's a joke broYou this with /pol/ users all the way up to Trump himself. It's always a "joke" and being "edgy" until it isn't.
>>2110117Lmao dude check
>>2108293 or simply answer how the ACP is earning money for charity events and international trips for cadres and the lifestyle of their chairman, or how Hinkle is able to travel the world and do what he does when he's been demonetized and deplatformed almost everywhere. Without party members paying dues or doing fund raisers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20241227034915/https://acp.us/more-info>We will not be issuing any crypto coins or tokens for any reason. The Party is not currently accepting dues or donations or pursuing any monetization strategy.From the horse's mouth
>>2110117Hinkle has 2.8 MILLION FOLLOWERS on Twitter. 2.8 million. Bernie has 11.9 million, only four times more just to show you what magnitudes we are talking about. The most popular leftist e-celeb (besides Hinkle himself), Hasanabi has only 1.5 million and whether you consider his popularity organic and deserved or don't, he became this famous elsewhere by joining his uncle's youtube show more than a decade ago and then building a fanbase on Twitch. Other notable people like Wolff or Jimmy Dore only have aroud 200k followers on Musk's personal blog.
There is also now way someone gets famous on Twitter simply by posting there, especially with the simple boomer-tier posts Hinkle makes. Twitter's posting format isn't good for producing any kind real content. Probably Wint is the biggest self-made Twitter count whose actual content creation takes place on Twitter, and he still only has 1.7 million. The really popular accounts on Twitter are all people who got famous elsewhere like US presidents or pop stars. It's impossible to achieve the kind of social media reach Hinkle has without botting and hidden algorithmic boosting when before he was a totally isolated and unkown DSA guy on youtube making videos with ~10k views.
>>2110137Sir, this isn't a court of law. Do you have anything that would invalidate our observations? Why are you so defensive, having no arguments to offer?
>>2110142Astounding post.
>>2110143Engels was rich to travel and support his colleagues. Being agents of anti-imperialist forces is… le bad? Being paid to spread anti-imperialist sentiment to american is… le bad? Revolutionary observations.
>>2110145None of these numbers mean anything. Perhaps Hinkle is just better than the soyboys you list. Perhaps that is why the anti-imperialist forces support him. Hassan is second based but the funkopops and toys behind him make him lose that margin of popularity.
>>2110148Foreign governments support them to undermine america. Simple isnt it
>>2110145>OrganicCheck the level of engagement on his posts and compare with say, Hassan.
https://nitter.poast.org/jacksonhinklleAs far as I know he doesn't do premium content. Nor have I ever seen him do an official sponsorship.
This is interesting too
https://nitter.poast.org/jacksonhinklle/status/1877233565974339722?cursor=ZAAAAPBVHBmmyMG91fzuo400rIKyxcmTvo00_sW7pffjpY006oW-uabajY40jIe0xa-JuI00pMK4xYKaxo00moG2rfHgo400jMaxucCkqY00voK8kZG_rI40zsW0xde63I00JQISFQQAAA#rHe's promoting a guy who was born in France and is a french citizen. (Sound familiar?) And is also a member of Nation of Islam and participated in various idpol causes.
>>2110163>Engels was rich to travel and support his colleagues.Engels lived off an inheritance, and was later forced into exile and alienated from his family.
Like Hinkle's lifestyle made sense until he was demonetized. Nor did he grow up rich as far as what I was able to find out.
Even more interesting? At one point his own dad came out and called him a liar. And this happened more than once.
This family feud has been going on for years now so I doubt they're supporting him financially (I'd be willing to contact his parents directly and ask them, or maybe a lurking journalist could do this)
>Foreign governments support them to undermine america. Simple isnt itI'd be willing to consider this, but watch what happens normally
https://apnews.com/article/russian-interference-presidential-election-influencers-trump-999435273dd39edf7468c6aa34fad5dd>An indictment filed Wednesday alleges a media company linked to six conservative influencers — including well-known personalities Tim Pool, Dave Rubin and Benny Johnson — was secretly funded by Russian state media employees to churn out English-language videos that were “often consistent” with the Kremlin’s “interest in amplifying U.S. domestic divisions in order to weaken U.S. opposition” to Russian interests, like its war in Ukraine. They throw the book at you. So why is Hinkle still out there without being bothered by law enforcement? Well one explanation is that he himself is a fed and what he's doing is approved of by higher ups. And the ACP itself is directly funded by glow orgs (foreign or domestic) through shell companies. (queue H*z talking about how "the party is a business")
>>2110214>nitter.poast.org/DanielTutt/status/1788324260861137242I love how the argument is "they deplatformed him" while they openly allow him to do stuff that gets other people hit with investigations and indictments.
He's de-platformed yet this has no impact on his lavish lifestyle? Feds probably know the "Left" loves these persecution and victimhood narratives. It ain't even true anymore either considering he's back on Twitter and the whole tech bro ecosystem is bending the knee and kissing the ring of the incoming Trump admin.
They let H*z play the little "radical" cult leader doing performative speeches making him feel all important, and then the actual plants among the leadership direct the rank and file in favor of US glow interests.
Against Cuba, using them as liaisons in an attempt a reverse kissinger with Russia, consolidating North America, and most importantly slandering and sabotaging other movements. Even the name feels like a blatant attempt to squeeze out the CPUSA and muddle the waters.
H*z in response does nothing because he relies on these people for funding and relevance.
>>2109306If I only considered the ACP separately, I would call this a demented rant. However, Hinkle's behaviour, combined with how MAGAcommunists cope with it kinda give credence to the idea that the whole operation is a Trumpian plot. Red-browns, no matter where they're from, all claim they are helping the working class, that has been abandonned by the "LGBT Left". However none of them, aside from ACPtards, cling as much to big name right wing figures as much as they do, especially Hinkle, who still sucks off Trump and is now blowing Tate. They never criticise their capitalistic view of the world. And they claim it's all part of a plan to gain fame and traction. But Trump and Tate fans will never be interested in Communism unless some kind of thorough pedagogical work is done, as to dispel the state of "ideological" confusion of these people. Which, of course, isn't the case.
Red-brownism is a bad idea, because it doesn't make reactionaries turn to more progressive poltical movements, it weakens progressive movements by appealing to reactionary pundits. It's the case for all of these little groups, but in the case of the ACP, it seems by design, as they don't even bother with maintaining the confusion needed for their movement to survive as a red-brown entity, and is just turning people who might be interested in Communism into reactionaries.
>>2110145>It's impossible to achieve the kind of social media reach Hinkle has without botting and hidden algorithmic boosting when before he was a totally isolated and unkown DSA guy on youtube making videos with ~10k views.Yeah he's botted to hell, but the vast majority of follower gain specifically happened right after the Gaza war began. (Which he also called a "godsend" to his follower count in an interview to the New York Times.) I would sometimes look at who was replying to his posts and it did look like there were real people from MENA countries who, y'know, see a good-looking white American guy shilling their cause. But I saw some Houthi-aligned influencers criticizing him later ("we should have never invited him") because he criticized Erdogan. There's also the curious thing where he once shilled Netanyahu as a multipolar figure.
BTW, other than one trip to China organized by Guancha (the private media company founded by the venture capitalist Eric Li), the Chinese seem to be more circumspect, and Hinkle's accounts on Chinese social media were deleted recently. Makes me wonder whether he dropped off another flash drive, but since relations between China and the incoming Trump administration is very bad, they had no interest in it.
>>2110272He's been engaging with the idea of US expansionism way too much, which leads to nothing but the development of false consciousness. How is going "MURICA OO-RAH" in support of this will further the cause of Communism?
Not to mention him sucking Tate off for actual years now, even before the latest drama. Who the fuck do you think you're convincing with that?
>>2110270Hinkle's China accounts were reinstated.
Thing is, there are no videos there.
https://space.bilibili.com/1724234889/dynamichttps://m.weibo.cn/u/7759817363?luicode=20000061&lfid=5060434365256319
<Also, plot thickens>>2107727>Even then, I have seen people shilling the ACP on /pol/ as (i shit you not) an AUTHENTIC THIRD POSITIONIST PARTY.See picrels, this is truly unbelievable
>>2109306>>2109644>>2109694><10. Haz is compromised because he did molly at a halloween party in 2021 and went crazy roid-sex-rage. There are videos and charmhole knows about thisI remember watching a stream where Charmhole said some weird shit along the lines of:
"And you had a happy halloween WAHOOO"
Haz was like:
"Don't talk about it"
Then someone in the chat said:
"It doesn't count if you're the one fucking the ass"
I hope some hazoid has that stream saved. I also wonder what happened to Peter Wiley? But all this makes so much more sense why Haz overreacted to Caleb mentioning him in the apology video. Haz freaked out massively about a rape allegation and I'm beginning to see why.
Holy shit.
>>2110377>>2110475>Pic of Ledesma next to ᴉuᴉlossnWOkay so either that redfash guy is as brainbroken and autistic as me, or he's a Spaniard, because I don't know who the fuck knows about Ledesma outside of a niche subculture of politically obsessed freaks (like me).
Anyways since this is tangentially related. The guy who runs the Fascio newsletter (pretty much one of the only Fascists I'm aware of that reads his own theory) seems to be starting his own party or something. What stood out to me and how it relates to this thread is what he wrote under a few points of his 25 point platform.
<2. American Socialism, Is America First
>The existing global capitalist system should be recognized as a threat to humanity as a whole and presents a significant danger to people around the world. Policies regarding mass immigration and Critical Race Theory should be seen as direct challenges to the American working class, impeding their ability to come together in unity.
>Communities of Color experience varying forms of exploitation and oppression, including the unjust killings of Black Americans by heavily armed police forces and the economic exploitation of Hispanics by the capitalist elite in America. Our movement is dedicated to eradicating all forms of oppression against any ethnic group, recognizing that such divisions weaken and dishearten the working class.
>Central to our values is the solidarity among working-class individuals. Capitalism's ultimate objective is to replace individuals with strong class, ethnic, cultural, or religious identities with disconnected individuals who are easier to manipulate and exploit for the benefit of the elites and their capitalist allies.
>Our advocacy is for a form of Nationalistic Syndicalism that integrates government, economy, and society to benefit the American people. This system guarantees equal rights and responsibilities for all citizens. The National Community serves as the cornerstone of American Socialism, uniting the nation through shared class interests, culture, identity, and a spirit of brotherhood. We uphold self-reliance as a fundamental principle to safeguard against external threats.
>Within the National Community, the promotion of morality, strong families, and Social Justice is paramount. Our Socialism envisions a State dedicated to preserving our people, akin to a living organism composed of families, communities, and comrades united as one.
>To foster trust within the National Community, corruption and cronyism will be thoroughly investigated and harshly punished. The government is entrusted with providing a safe and secure nation for all citizens, preserving the nation's distinct ethnic, moral, and cultural foundations. Upholding the cherished values of our forefathers, we aim to restore an orderly, high-trust society by rooting out those who undermine the people, the Socialist Revolution, and our movement through bribery, blackmail, fraud, and deceit.And then you look at the Party Program of the ACP
<17. Promotion of American Civilization
>The Communist Party stands for the cultivation and discovery of a national-continental American culture on the basis of the unique history, geography, and ethnic makeup of the American peoples.
>The Communist Party stands for the promotion of language, autonomy, economic development and culture of American tribes.
>The Communist Party stands for the construction of a unified American historical, national, and cultural identity to overcome all racial and social antagonisms.There's a few more parallels I might not go into, but I want to make something clear: Zoltanous, the guy who runs the Fascio newsletter, is an explicit Fascist. He likes Fascism. He's written some stuff about "The Jewish Question". He advocates Fascism. He's a fascist. But if you compare both programs, then I gotta say the similarities are pretty fucking stark. Honestly the big difference is Zoltanous is more honest about his beliefs, in my opinion, and seems to have put more thought into them. Eitherway you read the two of them, and there's a lot of overlap. Even their style of propaganda looks similar.
https://fascio.substack.com/p/a-platform-forwardhttps://acp.us/program >>2110516Yeah, I learned recently he apparently got kicked out of his home because he went to a pro-Palestine protest wearing some Hezbollah shirt.
Honestly he looks and sounds like a dork, but I’ll give him at least credit for not seeming as totally fucking unhinged as Haz. That said, I know it’s been the case for Fascists to try to “claim” public figures as one of their own for a while now (ᴉuᴉlossnW claimed Stalin and FDR were both Fascist or Fascist-inspired) but I think in Haz’s case it tracks. He basically just reinvented a kind of Fascism and called it Communism.
Also my God, Zoltanous, workout a bit. The blackshirt thing only really works if you’ve got a strong core and arms. Granted the turtleneck makes it look like he’s going for more of a Mosley look, and that tracks—Mosley was a lanklet, too.
>>2110391He was an archiver of pre-ban haz twitch streams who had a falling out; no idea what happened.
On another note, im really sad.
>I watched haz recent stream and hees like "swarm anyone who attacks our party" and "im not leading a cult because im not taking your passport". >Every time I watch a haz stream i get a weird mixture of turbo-depression like taking stimulants and sleeping pills at the same time.>He gives off this vibe of "all the odds are stacked against us but we have to overcome this impossible challenge because it is our destiny. >Constantly demands loyalty. Im happy im not a hazoid because i feel for those suckers who follow him. Im guessing every ACP member HAS to believe in THE PLAN or else communism will be gone for good.>I feel really bad for BreeKB since Haz took it personally and now she will be attacked. This is what makes it a cult.>WE HAVE THE ONE TRUE FAITH AND IF YOU GO AGAINST US YOU ARE A TRAITOR WHO PUT YOUR INDIVIDUALITY AHEAD OF THE GROUP! YOU ARE BOOSTED BY NAFOIDS! YOU ARE A TROT! WRECKER!Im at a crossroads. I dont know if I should support Infrared as they are the only active group around that has enough Clout to defend communism. On the other hand, should they win, it will be an SS BURGUNDY nightmare. Should we go against them, we are siding with the empire against fellow communists, but also putting down a dangerous cult.
I dont know how to feel about them anymore. Maybe under different leadership they would be more palatable, but their whole identity orbits haz. Should haz die or something, the party will be over as nothing is holding it together.
I dont know bros.
I want to be optimisitic but haz elicits more and more negative feelings. This is no longer happy internet bants to joke around, this is how he is in real life, a cult leader. I dont think anything good awaits us. Communism will be gone soon, nobody really cares about it. Its all about personal wealth accumulation. Maybe one day future humans if they survive will act differently, but right now everything is bleak.
>More monopolization>privatization>no help to anyone>pull yourself up by the bootstraps>become a billionaire >i dont owe you anythingI wish humanity would get nuked for all our stupid bullshit.
>Lesson to future gods and aliens, do your genetic experiments on animals other than apes. Monkeys are disgusting animals that were an evolutionary mistake. Do experiments on beavers or rats, they at least are much gentler animals.I hate Musk, I hate Thiel, I hate Trump, I hate Vivek, I hate Techbros, I hate Successful faggots, I hate American bullshit
>>2110566whatever mildly salient points they had about maga in 2022 (which michael moore explained better in 2016) have been overshadowed by being bigoted larouchites interested in signal boosting pedophile rapists.
It's been a real decline each year, it's not going to get better yknow.
>>2110566‼️‼️HOLY FUCKING SHIT‼️‼️‼️‼️ IS THAT A MOTHERFUCKING TNO REFERENCE??????!!!!!!!!!!11!1!1!1!1!1!1! 😱😱😱😱😱😱😱 TNO IS THE BEST FUCKING MOD 🔥🔥🔥🔥💯💯💯💯 SABLIN IS SO BLESSEDDD 😎😎😎😎😎😎😎👊👊 BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN BLACKSUN 😩😩😩😩😩😩😩😩 😩😩😩😩KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE KISHIPURGE🤬😡🤬😡🤬😡🤬🤬😡🤬🤬😡LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY LBJALLTHEWAY NIXON IS NOT A CROOK! RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED RFK BLESSED Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Yo Speer! 🇩🇪 Alexei is still alive?!? TICK TOCK FUNNI MAN HAS A MENTAL BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN BREAKDOWN ❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓❓SHRIMP BOAT SHRIMP BOAT SHRIMP BOAT So Long…‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️‼️😂🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂😂SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? SANE DSR PATH WHEN? 😂🤣🤣🤣😂😂Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? Big Building in Neu Berlin? 🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢🏢 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺I hate Boris Yeltsin 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺I hate Boris Yeltsin 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺I hate Boris Yeltsin 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺I hate Boris Yeltsin 🇷🇺🇷🇺🇷🇺 Yockey and Hall best paths for America. Chicken farmer❗❗Chicken farmer❗❗Chicken farmer❗❗Chicken farmer❗❗Femanine bottom half nazi 😳😏 Femanine bottom half nazi 😳😏 Femanine bottom half nazi 😳😏 Femanine bottom half nazi 😳😏 Femanine bottom half nazi 😳😏Femanine bottom half nazi 😳😏 That drainage in school really looks like a black sun thoe. Hans, what the fuck have you done to the Poopenfarten you degenerate. Don't ask what the barns are used for 💀 Don't ask what the barns are used for 💀Don't ask what the barns are used for 💀Don't ask what the barns are used for 💀 Hilarious rape guy(COURT OF THE BROWN KAISER REFERENCSJUEU⁉️⁉️⁉️) DO NOT talk about Göring's dumptruck of an ass 😡🤬(198Ч) DO NOT talk about Göring's dumptruck of an ass 😡🤬(198Ч) DO NOT talk about Göring's dumptruck of an ass 😡🤬(198Ч) Biology teacher when talk about family trees and genes or some shit and mentions Alexei as last Romanov 🤣😂🤣😂🤣😂 Contain the laughter do not let it seep through Speer Speer Speer bit cuungus slavery stronk pay 0 recishamark ubermensch ekonomie. Today i went to the supermarket to buy something and sudenly i found a "Girl" with a Dentist Speer hoodie 😹 so i approached and whisper to her "Wholesome SocDem Sablin is better than Dentist Speer" and she runned away and told me that i stay away from she so i say her "tipical Speer Germany player with his Stupid Go4 😹" , and then i found with her again in another hall and told her Zhdanov is better Unifier than the stupid Taboritsky 😹😹😹😹" and she became crazy and told me that i leave her alone (i didn't know what to say) so i taked a bottle of cum and i showered her with it and told her "take a bath stupid Dentist Speer fan JAJAJJAJA" then she call the guards and they kicked me out meanwhile i screamed "FOR THE GREAT TRIALLLLL" but i was happy because i humilliate her and she didn't have any argument, stupid Edgy 😹😹😹😹. My daily in Poopenstatt-Burgund Every single day, I wake up with bags under my eyes and an extreme headache. My anus is so sore that I spend all night writhing in pain and screaming in agony. At precisely 5:00 every morning, Poopenstaffel troops would smash down my door, come into my bedroom, rip the blanket off me, handcuff me and drag me out of the house to the Poopenfabrik. The life of an average citizen in The Brown State. Hehe, funny Burgundy🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣More like BRUHgundy amirite?🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣Le STRENG GEHEIM!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣 Wait. You’re not laughing? B-but, I said le funny country!? Le funny epic concentration camps!!!! Why aren’t you laughing😡🤬🤬
>>2110565Oh he was definitely athletic. Though I'd say ᴉuᴉlossnW seemed to have at least maintained some level of fitness as he aged, at least from what I understand. More stocky than, like, completely sagging. Hitler on the other hand seems to be the most physically decrepit of the Fascist leaders. Also:
>That cartoonThe BUF still has a website that's archived all their old newspapers, political cartoons, etcetera. Dunno if it's the same artist but I'll say it's funny comparing their political cartoons to the shit churned out by /pol/ or A. Wyatt Man. Like modern anti-semitic cartoons just displays Jewish people as this grotesque greasy monsters, then you look at the BUF and it just looks cartoony, almost Thief and The Cobbler style. Like the French Revolutionary just looks too cute to hate, the Socialist just kind of has Santa Clause vibes to him, shit even the Blackshirt looks like he's more confused than angry, sort of a "Gee whiz guys, what's going on?"
>>2110566>Im at a crossroads. I dont know if I should support Infrared as they are the only active group around that has enough Clout to defend communism.Infrared has no clout, lol. I literally wouldn't know about them if it weren't for /leftypol/. They're a joke my man, them and the ACP.
>>2110713The way H*z speaks is incredibly grating and his rants are long and boring. I'm not surprised people crave alcohol or stimulants listening to him.
>>2110569We don't. People brought up his arguments almost a decade ago back when you had a lot of "leftists" drone on about "human nature" and how under "socialism" we would all live in "harmony" with "nature" and in general "communism" is when everyone has a small business.
Almost no one does this anymore, so any good arguments he may have made 10 years ago are drowned out by the dumb opportunist shit he says nowadays.
Jackson hasn't been active much on twitter lately.
I am more and more beginning to think he is a Tulsi agent.
>Preparations for Putin-Trump meeting have begun
>This was announced by the US President-elect's National Security Advisor Michael Waltz.
>Waltz also believes that a telephone conversation between Trump and Putin could take place "in the coming days or weeks."
>Trump admits that the idea of "ousting" Russia from former Ukrainian territories is unrealistic. According to his advisor, this is a reality that everyone needs to come to terms with.
>Earlier, Western media noted that security guarantees are important for Russia and the US. America wants to be sure that the conflict with Ukraine will not be repeated. Russia will demand that Kyiv not be accepted into NATO and that the alliance's forces be withdrawn from its borders.The day before, Switzerland announced that it was ready to accept the two leaders for talks.
https://t.me/OstashkoNews/168204>>2110929Should be under Oswaldmosley.com or something. Now I’m not sure if it’s comprehensive but it’s got a
lot of it. Interesting from a historical perspective at least. It’s got archives of some post-war stuff Mosley was involved in, too—some magazine called “The European” that did everything from book reviews to current events. You get some firsthand reactions to shit happening in the Cold War. There’s a funny moment that I think was Mosley reacting to Khrushchev’s request to join NATO (because he was proving it was really just an anti-Soviet pact) and his reaction was basically: “The communists are expansionist liars, so to prove it we should let them join NATO, because if they refuse it proves they’re lying and if they join then they can’t do their expansionist tyranny.”
>>2110566>as they are the only active group around that has enough Clout to defend communism.Their audience is a lot smaller than you think it is. If we combine the numbers from all of Haz's active-ish socials, Infrared or otherwise, he has roughly 152,000 followers. That's less than 0.05% of the US population. And that's a
very optimistic estimate, assuming that there's no duplicates between different platforms and accounts, ignoring any potential botting, and doing some extremely generous rounding. If we do the same thing with Hinkle, we have around 9% of the US population, definitely a bigger number, but not as big as you'd think, especially considering that I'm doing this in a way where duplicate followers are not accounted for (and I also think I might have fucked up the math in a way that results in a bigger number than it should(?)).
Infared, and to a lesser extent the ACP/MAGAcom movement as a whole, only seems significant to you because you run in similar circles, and because they're very loud. You're in an internet echo chamber. These things don't matter in real life.
>>2112148Fascism is the dictatorship of the maximally chauvinistic and imperialist elements of finance capital in the form of open terrorism against the working class, pure hatred of other nations, total war of absolute enmity, racial cannibalism
Reasoned dialogue and exchange of ideas become a thing of the past. We still don't live in open junta dicatorship like in Ukraine, but that is the model
The ACP is the counter-pole, the fascists always were the US
>>2112151<Kick out the MI6 and british colonial crown from Canada<One unified republic for all nations with autonomous regions modeled on the 1936 ConstitutionSounds based.
>>2112152There is always one state in power, otherwise it's a civil war where there are two states in battle in open dictatorship until the CIA MI6 regime is crushed
Fascists are the dictatorship of finance capital. The other is the dictatorship of a working class
>>2112153I am correct
>>2112162Many people left the party due to lack of discipline and one is working on his career before being able to rejoin
>>2112178Argument
>>2112180How is it fascism when Dmitrov already described fascism, it is when the state goes from covert to open class dictatorship
>>2112181I am one of the few Bolshevik supporters on this board actually, there are too many petit-bourgeois vacillators here, where there is also an anti-sectarian not to break
>>2112184>it is when the state goes from covert to open class dictatorshipSee, you all have the same beliefs from CPUSA to PSL to DSA to actual progressive dems. "The other guy is fascism!"
Absolute retards who will never read George Jackson or Georg Lukacs correctly because your whole method is making shit up on the spot to justify your prior positions
>>2112185They actually do real life work, 90% of which is charity work to prove organizational discipline
Communism isn't just charity it is also self-determination for Americans. If you don't support that then you are a fascist. How have you put your ideas into practice but crying online about J Sakai brain rot?
>praxis is when you smugly bitch about how most people hate your childish individualism & reject youThese activities might give you a personal sense of accomplishment or whatever, but what exactly does it do for workers politically? "Mutual aid" is fundamentally different from Communism, by the way. Mutual aid is Anarchist, not to judge too harshly or be sectarian
>>2112186>>2112187This is just Dmitrov's definition, which authority on fascism do you use? Trotsky's is wrong, by the way
>>2112189The best thing that leftists should do at the very least is not wreck and sling shit on the ACP because of inter-party sectarianism in other parties in America
The feds are taking advantage of this, free work in their favor that is boosted. They are the content of your speech
>>2112190Lol see every time you guys open your mouths it just reminds me how your movement was resucitated to be a companion to the mindraped compatible leftists.
This right here is what is the most funny, you believe the same kind of shit as J Sakai about baristas and homeless people being the bourgeois, but you act like you are the "opposite pole". Your brain is a smoothie. Also I just said which authors I would recommend as an introduction to a historical, rather than ideological/psychoanalytical understanding of fascism.
You all love Heidegger and glowfags from the YPG who turned into conspiritainment grifters. Thank you all for showing me the danger of being even slightly less autistic. Your destiny is to be obliterated into nothing by Dongfeng missiles.
>>2110901The thing that sets off my glowdar with Hinkle is that I never hear about him. The only places I've ever seen him brought up have been niche leftist internet circles, and even then, it's not particularly common outside of a small subset of that. Beyond that, I've seen him mentioned a
very small handful of times on social media, generally not in a positive light, and exactly zero (0) times in real life.
This doesn't track with his follow count. Granted, he's not the biggest thing on earth or anything, 3 million followers looks a lot bigger than it actually is in the grand scheme of things, but it's definitely
something. I've heard significantly more about internet people with significantly smaller audiences.
>>2112171>I am correctAs soon as people start talking like this, the thread's over: we've officially entered pissing match mode. I'm honestly amazed we made it this far without everything falling apart.
>>2112191Definitions attempt to make things static, because it's again a subjectivist attempt to reduce meaning in this way. That's why Engels says all definitions are "worthless to science", they are only worth describing meaning (i.e. describing Nature which is continuously evolving)
Words don't mean anything themselves, they just communicate meaning and don't premise human understanding
>>2112192Baristas and Homeless do not engage in productive labor to be proletarian, they are still "working class" colloquially
Why can't people get better jobs? The entire service economy can be automated in 5-year plans
>>2112192Dmitrov is not giving a definition nor it is ideological. The moment described was when all constitutional order was formally suspended, just like the Weimar Constitution. The state becomes open with it's dictatorship and it enters offensive realism as a new foreign policy
The ACP has the direct opposite foreign policy, look at their international relations
>>2112197>As soon as people start talking like this, the thread's over: we've officially entered pissing match mode. I'm honestly amazed we made it this far without everything falling apart.I thought he was being ironic? There are autists who can't tell the difference
>>2112197It's always a pissing match. They literally think Russia is imperialist, but that it's a good thing because they are morally superior. They don't form any opposition to the libertarian Strasserist compatible leftoids, they're like an inflammatory agent that draws more blood to a region to heal it.
NONE OF THESE PEOPLE READ MARX. NONE OF YOU READ MARX. I PRAY EVERY DAY THAT ALL YOU PEOPLE CHOKE ON GRISTLE
>>2112190>They actually do real life workSee
>>2107694What real life work? ACP fans will always say "they're actually getting shit done, unlike YOU"!, and then go on to provide examples of them doing nothing, if they even provide examples at all.
Nobody has been able to sell me on the actual relevance of this party, something that should be extraordinarily easy.
>>2112203Everyone is imperialist by Lenin's 1916 text you are forming a definition around, undialectical
Imperialism exists in the real world and is evolving 100 years later, this is not about morals, it's one system that Russia is under siege from
What is a libertarian strasserist and why do they matter in the real world?
>read MarxTell me what did Marx & Engels wrote about the State?
>>2112205>the response to any criticism is always that you were misunderstoodA lot of these posts have been clarifying basic Marxism-Leninism actually
>>2112206>The state is just a tooool maaan! Everything's just a tool dude>Dude the system manhttps://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/dimitrov/works/1935/08_02.htmThere is no "fascism", there is only the fascist regime. "Fascism" is the ideology forming it
>>2112207What is your measure of success? If you are talking it means you have a better example to go from
>>2112208>>2112211I'm not even in the ACP or american, I do research and educating you for free
>>2112213>What is your measure of success? If you are talking it means you have a better example to go fromAnd that example is? Again, this shouldn't be a hard question to answer.
>>2112221He's a bot.
>>2112221I am surrounded by retards, this would be a serious situation, but fortunately I will get out of this country within months, so you can all die of airborne AIDS for all I care.
>>2112213Imagine accusing me of being a bot and not the ACP guy who just replied to my post with something completely unrelated. Mindraped, mindraped, mindraped. NONE of you are free of rape.
>>2112223Everything is worse than the ACP therefore it is the best
>>2112224You got mad when I accused you of shopping at the mall for ideals rather than supporting concrete Communist parties. Zizek's critique of western leftism was correct
>>2112227In reference to your remark:
>He's a bot.Not surprised kids are now turning their inability to read basic context clues into "lol was this written by an AI". Honestly happy I was part of the last generation of literate Americans. DONGFENG. OBLITERATION. SOON.
>>2112230>Everything is worse than the ACP therefore it is the bestThat doesn't answer my question!
>>2112232I called him a bot because he'll post literally identical text multiple times.
>>2112235You called me a bot because you're a semiliterate moron.
>>2112234MINDRAPED!
>>2112227>>2112235You asked
>And that example is?Compared to the sea of all the other "sects" of Marxism, ACP is the only party with demcent
In diamat there is either an imperfect something in real development, or there is nothing material, just ideas. That's why I at least don't wreck parties like WPB and ACP
>>2112236>Zizek.. le bad!>Heidegger.. le bad!Why?
>libertarian StrasseristWhat the fuck is that, yes you are mindraped
You are the literal bot who locked yourself away from dialectical thinking and dialogue, you are a mechanical marxist. That was the essence of Trotskyism
>>2112247The debate has been synthesized and you have no argument, your mind is raped
Which positions are the same? Both Hitler and Stalin had the "same positions" they called "nationalization", did that work out the same way in reality?
>>2112248These are all forms of collective work and practice to prepare for world revolution
https://x.com/REVMAXXING/status/1816235767884316850/photo/1https://x.com/ukr_socialist/status/1846200498979803436/photo/1https://x.com/tedderukan/status/1850990770381091154/photo/1 >>2112258Theres a lot more work that you can do yes. All those parties have been doing the same things for decades and have never actually been effective.
The ACP appeared in 6 months and is already operating at their level and outperforming in some ways
You can't do much more than that legally except collectively organize and prepare for the coming open fascist dictatorship. Lenin said that America was the first "anti-colonial" revolution in history and provided an example for the world. What is there more to be done legally except practice collective discipline and labor?
The movement and development of the imperialist world system outward outpaced the political uprisings inward, which is why the revolution would be crushed in the west until something big, now starting to look like WW3 kicked off by the SMO
Marx and Engels they foresaw Russia and Asia coming to the fore against this world system. Asia generally as preparing this future "world turning point" that develops along modern industrial lines. A Communist party proving they can exist collectively must prove itself
>>2112262>The ACP appeared in 6 months and is already operating at their level and outperforming in some waysStill curious how some of these initiatives are being funded without dues or monetization, especially the mags, the charity events and the international travel of some members who otherwise have no discernible source of income.
>You can't do much more than that legally except collectively organize and prepare for the coming open fascist dictatorship.Gee if only the people opposing this "coming open fascist dicatorship" weren't themselves (former) cheerleaders of its helmsman or in some cases penpals with incoming members of the new administration (Tulsi Gabbard)
>>2112263There was a former member that quit the party after not getting their way (Jackson kicked out) for this exact reason you mentioned
Demcent allowed for their criticism to be heard actually, but it also allows for an organization not to bend over backwards not to appease 1 individual, this is how Trotsky the renegade broke with Leninism based on petty sensibilities and ideas. Not based on labor
Also Lenin had complaints about someone called "Bauman" and his treatment of his ex who committed suicide. Lenin didn't call Bauman a "womanizer" and cancel him. Lenin sided with this guy because his actual work was useful to the party
>>2112264I don't think you are aware how much the Biden admin has been pumping up the zionists and neocons, Trump has totally capitulated on that front including Ukraine. What's starting in 2022 is starting to show cracks in the Imperialist dictatorship, thanks to Russia
>>2112266>Demcent allowed for their criticism to be heard actually, but it also allows for an organization not to bend over backwards not to appease 1 individual, this is how Trotsky the renegade broke with Leninism based on petty sensibilities and ideas. Not based on laborI'd be more receptive to this argument if all of their noteworthy members didn't act like this to one extent or another.
Beyond that,
>>2112265 is right. How are they making the money to do all this?
>>2112265Private capital in the form of party businesses. Marx makes clear a proletarian must "produce & increase capital", so yes all proletarians must be productive
>Gee if only the people opposing this "coming open fascist dicatorship" weren't themselves (former) cheerleaders of its helmsmanThat's because they fell for the populist psyop propaganda, like Nick fuentes who had an emergency right as the news dropped Trump was always gonna be a zionist neocon
That's why he vacillated between being pro-Kamala and then did an emergency u-turn right as Trump won to save face
Trump and his party are not the helmsman in the Imperialist dictatorshi
>>2112270The point is it doesn't matter how you act in terms of discoursive propaganda, only the work you do for the party.
Does this mean it's morally good? No, Tate is abhorrent and belongs in a Gulag. Tate said he loves Zhukov's win at Stalingrad and supports ending war in Ukraine & Palestine, that's what matters in politics. Politics is war, not about sensibilities
The things you say on social media shape reality, Jackson has ratio'd several western leaders with real popular support being the content of his message.
All the leftists on X are being botted and amplified by nafo and other glowies
>>2112266It didn't sound like she was asking the organization to bend backwards, rather she was asking for the org to enforce discipline and ensure prominent members do not contradict the official program by promoting a suspected sex trafficker, pimp, multi-millionaire grifter who openly bragged about his connections to organized crime and is also cheering on this "coming open fascist dictatorship"
>>2112266The only cracks are in what liberals like to call the "rules based international order". The tech and energy oligarchs have bend the knee and kissed the ring. And the incoming administration is now openly plotting and justifying annexations of neighboring states.
This is not a collapse of "imperialist dictatorship". It's said oligarchy tearing the mask off. And there's no guarantee Moscow and Washington won't ransack the world
together.
And in case you find this unlikely, remember that during the 1930s Italy and Germany had fought a war in recent memory, and Hitler himself planned another one over South Tyrol.
When it comes to bourgeois states there are no permanent allies, only interests.
>>2112262>You can't do much more than that legally except collectively organize and prepare for the coming open fascist dictatorship.What does that entail?
>>2112275My problem with the ACP isn't the moral stances of its members, its the presence of any morality to begin with. Small things like
>The Communist Party stands for the elimination of gambling industries and other socially harmful vices cultivated by capitalism.(from their official program) pop up everywhere, and it makes me weary of the party as a whole.
>>2112283You'd accuse Mao of getting senile too for bringing back Deng. When it comes to who to support, I trust the man who has done a lot of work and study and is an experienced communist
>>2112284The most reactionary contradiction is finance capital (all the cops and feds), which takes primacy
>>2112285A lot of their top KMT leaders were total degenerates. They weren't required to follow the CPC's program when they made the alliance. Jackson Hinkle isn't behaving like Tate even if he said personally misogynistic comments in the past.
His shows and streams do more to reach people, so Jackson isn't removed from the party. The former member quit because the majority overruled, that's how demcent works
>>2112287>What does that entail?Joining your country's party and proving you can work. Loyalties lie with one party. Gambling is a toxic vice
>>2112291Your point is wrong, Hitler's Nazism was the historical movement of fascism in the 20th century.
Most people are using the internet for work, study, free time etc, "online" isn't fake. The differences in ideology don't matter because it's not a shopping mall. Otherwise, everything to you is "compatible left" is the exact shopping mall where you pick ideas, that's not the same thing as a materially real party collectivizing forces of production
What did Marx & Engels talk about the state? Kojeve?
>>2112293>nooooo you can't shitpost on an imageboard you have to take this place seriouslyYes
>>2112300>Joining your country's party and proving you can work. Loyalties lie with one party.No, I mean what does that entail for the party at large? What is their immediate goal?
>Gambling is a toxic viceMoralism
>inb4I don't gamble and never have. It's still moralism, and has about as much to do with communism as LGBTBBQ shit.
>>2112277Glowies/deep state interests aren't necessarily united. See inter-war Japan as an infamous example of where you'd have reactionary extremists backed by the military assassinate (liberal) prime ministers.
One side wants a "rules based international order" and a "pluralistic" America with "free and fair elections" with respectable figureheads doing the bidding of the oligarchy whilst respecting international laws and occasionally throwing some bones to the working classes.
The other wants a shameless open bourgeois dictatorship, where any democratic pretenses are dropped and North America is (violently) consolidated.
Both sides are anti-communist, both sides see China and the CPC as a threat to American Capital and deep state interests, But they differ in how these threats should approached.
To the Biden admin and (likely) the State Department, these people are dangerous extremists who wish to destroy the entire post-war order and plunge the world into chaos.
For the latter, they don't care. They see the status quo as a dead end and a road to decline and chaos as inevitable anyway. They feel the "rules based international order" is no longer serving their interests and therefore ought to be abolished. And that liberal democracy is irrelevant and dangerous at worst.
Obviously the latter won.
>>2112293>we're only shitposting and pretending and joking aroundReactionary behavior.
>>2112291>Hitler's ideology is not the key to understanding fascism as a historical movement. Is correct however. Hitler wrote a lot of dumb contradictory shit. ᴉuᴉlossnW was even worse. Movements should be judged by what they're doing, not what they're saying.
The real test will be post-Jan 20th. Will the ACP back workers against the Trump admin? Will they continue to support strikes? Or will they (and specifically Hinkle) argue that the left is being "divisive" and that radicals are "destroying" America through their actions and now is the time to "band together" as a "nation" for the "greater good"?
>>2112300>Your point is wrong, Hitler's Nazism was the historical movement of fascism in the 20th century.Your attempts to start some kind of debate hopefully can't get any more pathetic than the "ur wrong im right" posturing but it is repetitive.
Reinforcing my point you originally tried to draw focus away from with a poor joke about Zizek. You share the rigid definition of fascism that allows the Green Party, ACP, the PSL, DSA, and other orgs to perpetually fearmonger about the USA "becoming fascist" and using this to justify tailism of dominant fascist parties. The only difference is that ACP has a MAGA aesthetic. You need to learn from Dimitrov's historical materialist analysis, not cherrypick various writers in order to win online debates. Your ideological differences from the NGO alt media antiwar leftists don't mean anything. You are exactly like the WWP/PSL/ANSWER/CodePink/Veterans for Peace network, but centered around Larouche and Birch Gold etc instead of Brian Becker and the LaRiva family. Your whole project does nothing other than create confusion on thw political battlefield of the US to waste the energy of anyone who might be interested in political education or organizing activity.
Another similarity between you all is that you justify engaging in mutualistic feuds with low hanging fruit from the fascist parties in order to cling to relevance, pick up stragglers, and grandstand about being the trve revolutionaries. That's where you get your idiotic response style from to a T. You revel in "no u" Twitter reply chains because you have no other purpose in life than meaningless jeering.
>>2112301Words are meaningless and empty without praxis
>>2112302Wow a photo of a dying man proves just as much as the "Kunming Municipal Compulsory Rehabilitation Center" drug rehab being proof for an "Uyghur genocide"
>>2112305The immediate goal is party businesses like in China, to grow and spread influence
Logically all parties have to function like corporations to survive in 21st century where capital is globalized
Moralism is still useful in a high-trust healthy society where everyone has sensibilities for what is normal and what is disgusting, like fake lies about Mao being senile
Most people are based and don't like gambling either
>>2112306Yes the KMT government was also known as the "left-wing" camp and they collaborated with Japanese fascist directly against the Communists. Just like how much of the traditional "left-wing" in America are collaborating with feds, this is a part of what Zizek critiques.
Communist parties will be fighting side by side with the worst anti-human scum because their loyalties all lie in one place, the nation. The exceptions are Nick and other explicit fascists who hate America and just want race war
Picrel is about Lukacs analysis of fascism, it's quite literally just destruction of all reason and subordination of all thought to the impulses of one fascist dictator, the consolidation of pure irrationalism and reaction up to this point becomes the "Fascist" ideology. Imagine a world ruled by Nick screaming orders at you from a televiewer. The 14 points of Umberto Eco are downstream from real movements
Any imperfect Communist party is a better real movement, either that or nothing
>>2112307>I was only pretending to be retardedZizek was the best thing to happen to the western left, even if he is a NAFO shill himself because of academia class interests. Your brain works on irony retard
>>2112313The ACP is an entirely different new "western left", entirely different thing in content, which is a Left based on the American revolutionary tradition.
Not the "western left" that's commodified into a shopping mall and co-oped by feds, that's why there was a critique.
Zizek is still a retard in many other cases, no one said he was perfect. The Settlers theory is anti-Marxist
>>2112273What businesses? Again, if there is no monetization where is the money from? You're telling me a bunch of a petite bourgeoisie are donating to a communist party, why? (Leaving aside the question of the class nature of a movement beholden to petite bourgeois interest)
I've raised this issue before ITT. It feels this "the party is a business" spiel is a cover for (potentially glow) dark money laundered through shell companies. Because I don't understand why they don't do normal fund raisers or implement dues. Or (like some anarchist groups) are open about which businesses are supporting them. Hell, if they're funded through worker co-ops or something, why
wouldn't they want people to know about this? I'd prefer shopping at a local store if I knew the profits were used to fund a communist party.
It looks like a way to avoid scrutiny. And it's not like the feds wouldn't be able to figure this out if they wanted to.
>who had an emergency right as the news dropped Trump was always gonna be a zionist neoconThis would have been stupid 10 years ago, it's even more stupid nowadays. I'm not sure why any of them are pretending he ever was anything other than a zionist neocon. His in-laws are friends with Netanyahu. Soleimani was killed and Syria bombed on his orders.
>Trump and his party are not the helmsman in the Imperialist dictatorshiCalling Trump the helmsman shouldn't be confused with the wind propelling the sails. That would be Capital itself running into a crisis of profitability (on top of other crises like energy).
>>2112184>How is it fascism when Dmitrov already described fascism, it is when the state goes from covert to open class dictatorshipThat was the official Comintern line adopted in the 1930s but it was a fairly narrow, simplified definition used as a means for political agitation in the context of the time. R. Palme Dutt also had a take like that but I think Gramsci and Togliatti were better among the Marxist theorists of fascism at the time but that's neither here nor there.
>>2112195>Would genuinely be amused to see what the ACP explanation of the class character of grifters.I'm trying to get the lumpenstreamer to take off. No success so far but just gotta keep at it.
>>2112275>The point is it doesn't matter how you act in terms of discoursive propaganda, only the work you do for the party.I think you're incorrect and that it does matter how you act in terms of propaganda because that has an effect on the cohesion and discipline of the party, which is an important function of propaganda (particularly in communist practice, although this is by no means exclusive to communists). That is true even if it is directed outward at non-party members or supporters. I hope this doesn't sound offensive but this is basic stuff.
>>2112312>Picrel is about Lukacs analysis of fascism, it's quite literally just destruction of all reason and subordination of all thought to the impulses of one fascist dictator … Imagine a world ruled by Nick screaming orders at you from a televiewer. I like Lukacs but honestly it doesn't sound much better when it's Haz screaming orders rather than Nick. He even says that shit, you have to obey him without question and blah blah blah. I think the ACP is an irrationalist group that comes out of toxic streamer fandom.
>>2112318>What businesses? Good question.
>>2112312>their loyalties all lie in one place, the nation. But this is itself reactionary ideology. What loyalties do these people have other than to their own class and their own financial interests? There is no "national" interests at all.
>>2112312Lukacs definition is idealist. The Nuremberg trials were much more insightful, especially the statements of leading industrialists. Which made clear Hitler was doing their bidding.
Some of those same people also profited off and orchestrated the first war.
Irrationalist? The actions of the German oligarchs and their support for Hitler were motivated by rational self-interest. The petite bourgeois supporters of the NSDAP were likewise motivated by (class) self-interest. Against the communists who sought to collectivize their property (and free their wives and daughters from their patriarchal control) and the "jews" who they thought to be synonymous with both the bourgeoisie and the communists, And in the first case they also saw as a threat to their economic interests as small proprietors.
And whilst the Nazis were
elitists so were most French revolutionaries, but especially the American Founding Fathers who sought to protect land owners from both free men and slaves alike.
Likewise the thinking of nations and people in biological terms was very run of the mill 19th century liberalism.
>>2112322>Irrationalist? The actions of the German oligarchs and their support for Hitler were motivated by rational self-interest.I'm not sure I agree because the economic system they were trying to defend was irrational and destructive. Marxism is also not a rationalist philosophy (my understanding) and the class struggle doesn't follow a rational process, only that class-based revolution is the identification of material interests and needs of a class with reason's criticism of the existing irrationality (to paraphrase a line from an article about contemporary irrationalism that I'm going to link…. now):
https://monthlyreview.org/2023/02/01/the-new-irrationalism/Daniel Tutt read that article too and referenced it in his article on MAGA Communists:
>>2100629<My rationale for taking part in this debate was influenced by the Marxist philosopher Gyorgy Lukács, who argued that fascism is an irrationalist epistemology that thrives on incoherent ideas. The Marxist sociologist John Bellamy Foster has argued that today’s left is witnessing the return of irrationalist theories and, like Lukács before him, Foster locates this return of irrationalism in the rise of imperialist wars and monopoly capitalism. Although I do not think the MAGA Communists are fascist in any clear sense of the term, I do believe that their movement poses a danger to the development of Marxism in our time. A Marxism that trades in openly chauvinistic, violent frameworks, and that theorizes Marxism as a warlike practice in the service of a new age of inter-imperialist warfare, is irrationalist. If it is successful, it will only further divide the wider left away from Marxism at a time when the practices of Marx and Engels are desperately needed for re-forging and organizing the working class. If irrationalist ideas are not openly debated and critiqued, they will only fester. >>2112186>never read George Jackson or Georg Lukacsi dont think those definitions are mutually exclusive
>>2112262>Marx and Engels they foresaw Russia and Asia coming to the fore against this world system. Asia generally as preparing this future "world turning point"what really where?
>>2112291>>2112300The main problem with ACP is trying to apply methods for different conditions to the most technologically advanced country in history, which leads them to thinking you can be patriotic towards the US. This is a pretty close parallel to Great Russian Chauvinism in the USSR. If the US went communist it wouldn't really need a NEP or Dengism the world imperialist system would collapse and there would be no external threat to catch up with. You could reindustrialize in a couple years but you wouldn't need capitalists to do it because you already own all the patents.
>>2112307>You share the rigid definition of fascism>You need to learn from Dimitrov's historical materialist analysisThe analysis applies perfectly. The US is at the point of monopoly stagnation and losing in expansionist wars that the only path left is to turn inwards to stop the falling rate of profit. Its either socialism or barbarism and the communists are not prepared to take power. If the working class accepts the brutal austerity then you might get to skip fascism and live in destitution instead, but if they fight back the state is going to take off the gloves and the people will lose.
The reason this is the best analysis of fascism is because it is an extrapolation of the core of Marx's theory, which is the tendency of the rate of profit to fall as capital concentrates into monopoly and technological innovation stagnates leading to a change in the ratio of constant to variable capital that heightens class contradictions and drives revolutionary upheaval.
>>2112318>What businesses?For-profit organizations. Private capitalists who have funds at their disposal naturally still exert great influence, much more than "normal fund raisers" and "collecting dues". All the other parties just collect and sit on dues that people donate every month, they are sitting on millions and doing nothing except funding petit-bourgeois lifestyles in Academia doing writing and criticism
Basically take whatever productive skill you have or existing businesses and incorporate it into your party
It's important to note worker co-ops, syndicalism and "workers' councils for workers' councils sake" isn't Communist, because no one sector or portion of the economy takes precedent over another. Production has to be carried out according to a settled plan. Socialism is "ownership by the nation", but this is a gradual process
Worker co-ops existed in fascism funny enough, that's the realm of idealist socialism anyway
>>2112321>DefinitionFascism isn't a definition, it is a irrational anti-idea. Dmitrov was characterizing it based on it's historical reality, that is the meaning of Marxist-Leninist analysis
>It does matter how you act in terms of propaganda because that has an effect on the cohesion and discipline of the party, which is an important function of propaganda (particularly in communist practice, although this is by no means exclusive to communists)Jackson used to post a lot of coal like that 9/11 jews post, I've never seen anything like that happen again though. All forms of media is propaganda and different interests are boosting and controlling the "discourse".
99% of what Jackson reposts is pro-Russia, pro-Palestine, pro-China, anti WW3 etc. That also counts when it comes to "how you act" in the media
In terms of communist practice all the acp on social media have to be liking and reposting each other just to boost the algorithm and spread the message. The feds are doing the same thing to spread the opposite message
>He even says that shit, you have to obey him without question and blah blah blahDo you think you aren't allowed to personally disagree with Haz and discuss your issue with everyone? It's the entire demcent process you have to obey actually since there is always internal dialogue, criticism etc inside the party too
>>2112322>But this is itself reactionary ideologyThe nation is a particular form that a definite community of people will take, ultimately the thing that unites them the most is labor, the economic life on a common territory. Land is the most fundamental means of production. "Without labor, blood dries up" basically kills the wignat. Without people, there are no classes
>Lukacs definition is idealistThat's true for all definitions, it's just the psychoanalytic description of the fascist mind. Really sad, anti-human social reject with murderious tendencies for revenge. Hitler's rise to power is what's concrete about fascism true, Hitler was backed by Royal Dutch Shell since the 1920s, had Wall Street members sitting on the board of IG Farben and other industrial cartels since the late 20s, and kept paying back debts to the BIS well into the height of WW2.
The Bolsheviks cancelled all the debt after the revolution, which is what set the imperialist war for revenge ever since. The war started in 1917 and never ended
>IrrationalistFascism is "self-interest" in the mind of Nick, who are you to tell him otherwise? Truth, certainty and rationality are separate things. Obviously the "jews" weren't synonymous with the bourgeois and the communists. The existence of class traitors like Zhou Enlai and Khrushchev proves that human nature is not based on "rational actors maximizing self-interest" even when it comes to class interests.
Fascism and anarchism both had their roots as mechanical critiques of marxism, following the letter of the word and missing the spirit. I agree 19th century liberal ideology and western philosophy is the root cause of this
Picrel 1 but look at what fascism actually did in each case… ᴉuᴉlossnW stole Dalmatia, colonized Albania and Ethiopia. Hitler invaded all of Western and most of Eastern Europe
>>2112325<fascism is an irrationalist epistemology that thrives on incoherent ideas>Marxism is also not a rationalist philosophyIt's a good point, you can't rationalize a real movement that sublates the present state of things, you have to witness the theory being put into practice for it to be true (picrel 2). That is my own criticism of idealist Lukacs
Marx says Communism is this, entirely different from Malthusian self-interest survival of the fittest ideology:
<All previous historical movements were movements of minorities, or in the interest of minorities. The proletarian movement is the self-conscious, independent movement of the immense majority, in the interest of the immense majorityy >>2112340I had to delete and re-post this cause messed up the quotes before
>>2112326You can't a priori rationalize what fascism is (irrational), all you can do is differentiate between particular forms it takes throughout history and find the common content after the fact.
Only then you can conceptualize it - but your definition doesn't create a "checklist" for what is true capitalism/communism/fascism
You agreed with Dimitrov's analysis, the content of fascism is open dictatorship of finance capital whatever form it takes
>what really whereThe entire thing about the asiatic mode/primeval Communism. It's still a process in history barely surviving the total besiegement of globalist Imperialism. Communism is the Asiatic mode on a higher technological basis, realized as a "common unity" between manufacturing, agriculture, vast infrastructure etc
>trying to apply methods for different conditions to the most technologically advanced country in historyMarxism-Leninism must be synthesized for each national reality. That has nothing to do with "Great Russian chauvinism", which btw was critiqued all through the period.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialist_patriotismIf the US went communism, imperialism would be finished. Maybe they will try to run back to Canada and the UK, since that is the origin point of colonialism and capitalism that may be the final front of the final war
>tendency of the rate of profit to fallThe tendency of the rate of profit to fall shows that this reached a low point and has not historically recovered in 1929. Removing the gold standard removed that relation, since Marx's prediction was based on the relation of gold production to its role as a measure of value by weight
>>2112325It was "destructive" (to themselves) because they lost.
>>2112340This makes it sound like those concepts are solidly defined. It's difficult for me to see how there can be a community if it involves people who live thousands of miles apart and do know or interact with one another. I see people clinging to this idea of a "nation" when it can easily be dropped.
There's social relations, there's people you work and interact with, there's your neighborhood, your city, all of which make up a tangible community. There's no need to cling to the idea of nations which is often simply used to obscure class and exploitation. Yes I know this is "unorthodox" and that Stalin wrote a pamphlet about this: I'm saying he was wrong.
Economic life may have a territorial aspect, social bonds don't necessarily.
>Really sad, anti-human social reject with murderious tendencies for revenge.I'm not disputing this. But I am rejecting this idea that "fascism" is "irrational". It's deeply rational (to the oligarchs) which is what makes it dangerous.
In general I dislike attributing insanity and irrationality to one's enemies. I see
liberals especially doing this. The small proprietor who thought the The Jews (as bourgeoisie and communists alike) were out to take his business wasn't irrational as much as he was wrong in assuming all Jews were communists/bourgeois. The irrationality is found rather in them assuming the non-Jewish bourgeoisie
weren't out to get them too.
>Class traitorsI hate how this implies we ought to have any loyalty towards classes. We don't. The proletarian class struggle isn't about affirming ones class, or "opposing" the bourgeoisie. It's about the abolition of Capital and class itself. The American Oligarchs are as trapped by Capital as anyone else.
Likewise a communist prole is
also acting "against their class" because they aim to abolish it.
>>2112340>All forms of media is propaganda and different interests are boosting and controlling the "discourse" … In terms of communist practice all the acp on social media have to be liking and reposting each other just to boost the algorithm and spread the message.That wasn't my point. There are different interests in society who are spreading propaganda, but it's not simply done for persuasion but strenghtening the morale of these groups' own supporters, and I don't think Jackson posting wild shit about sex trafficker Andrew Tate strengthens any movement other than the right, not even his particular group because people were like WTF and quit. But again, he can just post whatever he wants.
>Do you think you aren't allowed to personally disagree with Haz and discuss your issue with everyone? It's the entire demcent process you have to obey actually since there is always internal dialogue, criticism etc inside the party tooAnd they'll say "okay but we disagree" and then you have to shut up and get in line and they'll kick you out if you don't, I understand.
>>2112348The perspective of the capitalist sees fascism as “rational” alternative. Both they and the fascists don’t see Communism as “rational”, because it goes beyond that “self interested” autonomous unit human nature theory. Class struggle inherently can’t be discussed individually, nor can Long durée analysis like historical materialism be distilled into individual "rationalism". That’s why the bourgeois only care about individual needs, not the collective
Fascists themselves take meth, colonize, enslave and act out their most repressed perverse urges. Those are the “fascist ideologues” that scream heil hitler and do the roman salute. Obviously they aren’t the real movement of fascism itself. Fascism never had any intellectual basis whatsoever, its sophistry
Also Lenin rejected positivism and vulgar Machian view in "Materialism and Empirio-criticism". A lot of knowledge is derived from feelings but that’s not the only source. The US wouldn’t be fascist until it overthrows constitutional order. A state is a tool of repression and domination of one class over another, in the form of a dictatorship. If imperialism successfully expands, negates and abolishes the asiatic mode, then they will switch to an open dictatorship anyway as they have no need to hide
>>2112325>https://monthlyreview.org/2023/02/01/the-new-irrationalism/
>Approaching the problem of irrationalism from a Marxist perspective, Lukács in The Destruction of Reason traced its historical roots to the defeat of the bourgeois revolutions of 1848, followed by the emergence of the imperialist stage of capitalism beginning in the last quarter of the nineteenth century, leading to the First and Second World Wars. “Reason itself,” he argued, “can never be something politically neutral, suspended above social developments. It always mirrors the concrete rationality—or irrationality—of a social situation and evolving trend, sums it up conceptually and thereby promotes or inhibits it.”19 It is immanent critique, based on the scrutiny of changing historical conditions, that constitutes the essence of the Marxian dialectical method in the analysis of the development of thought.
>For Lukács, Schopenhauer was the originator of “the purely bourgeois version of irrationalism.”20 His magnum opus, The World as Will and Idea, published in 1819, was directed against Hegelian philosophy. Schopenhauer attempted to oppose his subjective idealism of the will to G. W. F. Hegel
>the German bourgeoisie shifted their allegiance from Hegel and Ludwig Feuerbach to Schopenhauer, who in the last decade of his life achieved widespread acclaim
>Schopenhauer’s genius, according to Lukács, was to pioneer the method of “indirect apologetics,” later perfected by Nietzsche. Earlier apologetics for the bourgeois order had sought to defend it directly, despite its manifold contradictions. In Schopenhauer’s new method of indirect apologetics, the bad side of capitalism (and even its contradictions) could be brought into the open. This was never attributed to the capitalist system but to egoism, instincts, and will, perceiving human existence in deeply pessimistic terms as a vice-ridden process of self-dissolution.
>Nietzsche died in 1900. The date was significant, since in Lukács’s view, Nietzsche was the “founder of irrationalism in the imperialist period,” which was then only commencing. The imperialist or monopoly stage of capitalism in Marxist theory began in the last quarter of the nineteenth century, but, in terms of Nietzsche’s life and work, only “the first shoots and buds of what was to come” in that respect were visible. Nietzsche’s genius was instinctively to capture a sense of what was to come and to develop the method of irrationalism for the new age of empire as a “mythicizing form” of analysis, made more obscure by the frequent use of aphorisms. It is this that accounts for the mesmerizing nature of Nietzsche’s literary style, which was at the same time a means of perfecting indirect apologetics.28
>Life itself is essentially appropriation, injury, overpowering of what is alien and weaker; suppression, hardness, imposition of one’s own forms, incorporation and at least, at its mildest, exploitation.… If it is a living and not a dying body…it will have to be an incarnate will to power, it will strive to grow, spread, seize, become predominant—not from any morality or immorality but because it is living and because life simply is will to power. But there is no point on which the ordinary consciousness of Europeans resists instruction as on this: everywhere people are now raving, even under scientific disguises, about coming conditions of society in which “the exploitative aspect” will be removed—which sounds to me as if they promised to invent a way of life that would dispense with all organic functions. “Exploitation” does not belong to a corrupt or imperfect and primitive society: it belongs to the essence of what lives, as a basic organic function; it is a consequence of the will to power, which is after all the will of life.31
>Here Nietzsche conflates appropriation—which, in classical political theory and in the work of thinkers as diverse as John Locke, Hegel, and Marx meant the process of acquiring property (and which, for Marx, ultimately involved production)—with actual exploitation. Moreover, in Nietzsche’s usage, exploitation was no different than expropriation (that is, appropriation without equivalent or reciprocity). Thus, in a sleight of hand, appropriation, which is the basis of life, becomes equated with exploitation/expropriation, which is not essential to existence, thereby shutting off any notion of an egalitarian or humane future. Moreover, Nietzsche ultimately grounds his view here in a biological determinism, which, he tells us, constitutes the “essence” of the “will to power.” In this way, his essentialism with respect to human nature differs from that of Thomas Hobbes only insofar as the latter, in the historical context of the seventeenth century, was a progressive rather than regressive thinker.32
>Lukács identified the growth of irrationalism with the imperialist stage of capitalism. This was conceived in the first place economically, along the lines of Lenin and Rosa Luxemburg, as a system of monopoly capitalism characterized in terms of interimperialist rivalry and war in the struggle over colonies and spheres of influence. But it was Lenin, above all, according to Lukács, who translated the economic conception of imperialism into “the theory of the concrete world situation created by imperialism,” focusing on class politics and alignments between nations.61 Moreover, Lenin recognized that peace agreements in the imperialist stage were “inevitably nothing more than a ‘truce’ in periods between wars,” within a larger geopolitical struggle inherent to monopoly capitalism.62 The political aspects of imperialism thus permeated the culture of whole nations, generating what Raymond Williams in another context was to call “structures of feeling.”63 It was this that led to the interface of imperialism and irrationalism in the history of Europe from 1870–1945.
>During all of this time, the Western left has occupied a weakened position within monopoly capitalism at home while having an ambiguous approach to imperialism abroad, with the related submergence of the class struggle. It also suffered a major defeat in 1968. With the advent of the New Cold War, the hybrid war of the collective imperialism of the triad on the Global South, including the major emerging economies, has come fully to light.
>Under these circumstances, bourgeois irrationalism has come to define the dominant intellectual climate of late imperialism, reflecting the continuing destruction of reason.
>Here we see Hartmann’s “cosmic suicide” as the supreme manifestation of the intellect and the will suddenly reemerging in our time. Once again, the irrationalism, cultivated at the highest intellectual levels, that dominated the outlook of the West at the beginning of the First World War, is choking off all rational alternatives. To offer uncritical support for the goals of the imperial triad of the United States/Canada, Europe, and Japan, or to support a global NATO in the late imperialist context, is to identify with the irrational will to power at the imperial center of the world economy, leading either to the eternal return of exploitation/expropriation, or else Hartmann’s cosmic suicide.
>Today, Reason demands that both exploitation and expropriation, and the related exterminist tendencies of our time, be overcome. That can only be accomplished, as Baran noted in the 1960s, on the basis of “the identity of the material interests of a class [or class-based social forces] with…Reason’s criticism of the existing irrationality.” The source of such an identity of “material interests with a class” currently lies primarily in the Global South, and with those revolutionary-scale movements everywhere seeking to overturn the entire capitalist-colonial-imperialist system for the sake of humanity and the earth.👍
>>2112352Land is the most basic form of the means of production, social bonds and relations arise out of economic life and labor.
There is identity in small nation states that binds a group together based on language, common culture, and more. Economic life is key. There are multi-national states/civilizations with many groups that coexist collectively, that’s the antithesis of mass immigration in the west with no assimilation, just rootless cosmosoup.
Over time smaller powers group up into larger regional powers as the economy globalizes, now there are material premises to positively sublate the nation into a bigger community. Communism isn’t about “different minorities” but “upholding the majority” in this historical process
>In general I dislike attributing insanity and irrationality to one's enemies. I see liberals especially doing this. The small proprietor who thought the The Jews (as bourgeoisie and communists alike) were out to take his business wasn't irrational as much as he was wrong in assuming all Jews were communists/bourgeois.>The irrationality is found rather in them assuming the non-Jewish bourgeoisie weren't out to get them too.A lot of them aren’t aware because they just believe JQ propaganda, there is no rationality beyond that discursive horizon. Picrel is what communists should do, this doesn’t make them a “cult of the workers” just because they are correct
>I hate how this implies we ought to have any loyalty towards classes. We don't.Communists are loyal to the proletarian class, not to “classes”
>The proletarian class struggle isn't about affirming ones class, or "opposing" the bourgeoisieMaterially that’s what it is, which overcomes these things in the dialectical struggle. Likewise a communist prole is only acting "against their class" insofar they are proletarianizing everyone, which is what finally abolishes the class distinction
>>2112357It’s not just morale, it also controls the discourse by posting propaganda for people to consume. That’s disorganized which only causes problems when someone posts an opinion, someone else doesn’t like it etc
The point isn’t to react or engage with anything, just post and counter post propaganda
>And they'll say "okay but we disagree" and then you have to shut up and get in line and they'll kick you out if you don't, I understandIf the collective disagrees then case is closed, demcent has spoken. How communists do is debate and discuss internally instead of bowing to individual demands
>>2112359It’s a litmus test for retards. Demcent is both “devoted faith” and “ruthless criticism”, which means it’s not blind faith
>>2112375>Communism isn’t about “different minorities” but “upholding the majority” in this historical process … Communists are loyal to the proletarian class, not to “classes”I don't think Karl Marx's view of the proletariat was about upholding the majority, because the proletariat was a minority in every country in his time except perhaps England.
>>2112380>That’s disorganized which only causes problems when someone posts an opinion, someone else doesn’t like it etcYou're dodging. Posting JQ shit and Andrew Tate is not just an opinion, it's more like Black Hammer's "fuck Anne Frank" meme warfare agitprop strategy. I've seen it before and it ends in disaster. That's the strategy the ACP is using. But the Andrew Tate shit also reminds me of a punk attitude, which is basically how drug-addled reprobates learn from a young age that they can get the attention they so desperately crave by doing destructive and harmful things, which is now rewarded by social media platforms. It's foolish, egocentric, and this point, I'm just here to watch the car crash.
>>2112380>If the collective disagrees then case is closed, demcent has spoken. How communists do is debate and discuss internally instead of bowing to individual demandsThere have been countless cults and sects that have taken this rigid Zinovievist model of demcent (which developed during a factional dispute after the Bolsheviks had already won a civil war and seized power in Russia, not before) as their mantra and none of them have gotten anywhere except getting some of their own ass cheeks slapped red.
>>2112481Yeah I spec'd in blade
and blunt, how could you tell?
>>2112312>The immediate goal is party businesses like in China, to grow and spread influenceLogically all parties have to function like corporations to survive in 21st century where capital is globalized
Okay, and then what? After growth, what is the plan?
>Moralism is still useful in a high-trust healthy society where everyone has sensibilities for what is normal and what is disgusting, like fake lies about Mao being senileTell that to Marx!
>Most people are based and don't like gambling eitherSource? Because off-hand I can't find any data either way that's recent enough to still be relevant.
I want it to be clear that I don't want to hate the ACP, I just don't trust it. Every time I start warming to it, one of its key leaders acts like a retard like in
>>2112309
>Communist parties will be fighting side by side with the worst anti-human scum because their loyalties all lie in one place, the nation.Why does this never apply to other communists who don't share the exact same beliefs. I'll probably never join the ACP, but I'd be more than willing to work with them, because we
do have a lot of mutual self-interests. But for some reason, I'm treated as a greater enemy than literal LaRoucheites because I went for a slightly different shade of red.
>>2112300>"online" isn't fake.Chronically online is tho.
Video games are an extremely popular, mainstream hobby in the United States, but if you started talking about Xcom with some random guy off the street, he'd probably give you a blank stare. For your average joe, "video games" means Super Mario Bros and Fortnite. Likewise, for your average joe, "the internet" means Mr Beast and Cr1tikal. Anyone with under 10m subs/follows/etc is to some degree niche, and the lower this goes the more niche it gets. Hinkle, the biggest ACP member in terms of cultural footprint, only has ~3m follows, which seems like a lot until you realize just how many people there are on the internet, and that this is 3m people from across the globe, not just the US and Canada where the ACP is active.
>>2112340>For-profit organizations_Which_ for profit organizations?
Why do you keep dodging softball questions?
>petit-bourgeois lifestylesI can't think of anything more petit bourgeois then owning a small business
>It's important to note worker co-ops, syndicalism and "workers' councils for workers' councils sake" isn't Communist,And owning a small business is?
>>2112347>Communism is the Asiatic mode on a higher technological basis>The tendency of the rate of profit to fall shows that this reached a low point and has not historically recovered in 1929. Removing the gold standard removed that relation, since Marx's prediction was based on the relation of gold production to its role as a measure of value by weightWut
>>2112364>A state is a tool of repression and domination of one class over anotherDoesn't this contradict
>The nation is a particular form that a definite community of people will take>>2112375>There is identity in small nation states that binds a group together based on language, common culture, and more.Same as above
thread is full so I archived it
https://archive.ph/TKoRIshould be ready in a few minutes
>>2112650>Wutyeah me too. the first part makes sense but is a bit of a stretch no idea how the gold part fits into that
>>2112347>That has nothing to do with "Great Russian chauvinism"yeah im talking about american chauvinism being similar to great russian chauvinism not that americans are russian chauvinists. because americas place in the world is similar to russias place in the ussr. all the warnings about russian nationalism lenin makes apply to the usa. americans are not defending their nation against external oppression their nation is the external oppressor. ACP frames it like the US is being oppressed from outside by international bankers, rather than it being the home base of finance capital
>>2112347 >>2112352>But I am rejecting this idea that "fascism" is "irrational". It's deeply rational (to the oligarchs) which is what makes it dangerous. >You can't a priori rationalize what fascism is (irrational)nah you can. i think you keep switching between colloquial definitions of irrationalism and what irrationalism means to philosophy. irrationalists can believe the source of knowledge is a feeling and still rationally deduce a path of action with reason from a faulty foundation, like that the nation constitutes a racial collective soul. and rationalists can analyze irrationalism from a reasoned foundation like ideology springing from the contradictions of the late imperialist capital dynamics of material production. calling them irrationalists in this sense isn't just to dismiss them or call them crazy its to correctly categorize their method of thought. fascism can and should be analyzed from both angles, this is dialectical.
the contention really seems to be whether the us is fascist, classically fascist, or some new type of managed bourgeois democracy. it really depends on whether you consider lynching and jim crow to be over or to have continued with the prison industrial complex and whether you think that constitutes "open" terrorism or whether the normalization of state violence and strategy of tension is still considered closed or hidden state terrorism. whether a particular state qualifies as fascist is separate from the analysis itself.
>>2112391>I don't think Karl Marx's view of the proletariat was about upholding the majority, because the proletariat was a minority in every country in his time except perhaps England.Communists are loyal first and foremost to the Communist party of course, but the party valorizes the proletariat generally speaking.
They can work with other classes like the masses of peasants in Lenin's time/Alliance Between the Workers and Exploited Peasants. But the proletariat is absolutely the majority in our time, and communists today must work with other "types" of people such as petit-bourg business owners and win them over.
Also Trotsky hated the peasants because he was an elitist idiot, that's where "fascism" originated according to him
>You're dodging. Posting JQ shit and Andrew Tate is not just an opinion, it's more like Black Hammer's "fuck Anne Frank" meme warfare agitprop strategy. I've seen it before and it ends in disaster.Jackson isn't perfect in terms of what personal viewpoints and opinions X group of people believes to be correct and wholesome, but no one said he's incapable of changing opinions. Has he ever posted any more JQ shit after this?
The point is that yes, it is meme warfare. It's better to teach drug-addled reprobates an alternative that's not degenerate and destructive, which is Communism. That's why I understood + support the decision for Haz going on Fresh&Fit. So time will tell if you think it will "end in disaster", I am optimistic actually
>There have been countless cults and sects that have taken this rigid Zinovievist model of demcentWhy is it Zinovievist? The Bolshevik party and masses of people supported Stalin, only finks & failures in the bureaucracy like Trotsky and Zinoviev hated Stalin's popularity with the masses. You're literally complaining because ONE individual didn't get her way, which was to kick Jackson out of the party. Everyone else wanted him there at the end of the day, even those that didn't like Jackson's personal views
>>2112587>After growth, what is the plan?I'm not in the party so I can't tell you all their plans? Besides is it a good idea to post everything on a public board with multiple feds reading this right now?
When it comes to "What is to be done", the revolutionary movement must establish contact and a basis, among others, with the trade unions, but that's just one example. Praxis isn't "defined". All that's left is hold out, keep working and wait until WW3.
>Tell that to Marx!>Source?Marx wrote Communists do not preach morality at ALL. You're confusing that with morality being totally absent in society, either now or in the future. In the year 3000 if you show someone your anime porn people are going to look at you with disgust, who knows? Maybe they won't. Not the point. Do you really need a source for basic social sensibilities?
>I want it to be clear that I don't want to hate the ACP, I just don't trust itNo one asked you to trust them, just sit back and watch, don't partake in attacking and shitting it up. Because it's gonna be you side by side with groypers + nafo + real feds
>Why does this never apply to other communists who don't share the exact same beliefs. I'll probably never join the ACP, but I'd be more than willing to work with them, because we do have a lot of mutual self-interests. But for some reason, I'm treated as a greater enemy than literal LaRoucheites because I went for a slightly different shade of red.There are no "shades of red", there is only Communism, sorry. No one is closed off to your beliefs, you still have to defend them in open discussion and debate when it comes to demcent. A lot of "Communists" only call themselves that as a form of identity politics. A "Communist" in reality is a laborer of a communist organization, theory into pr