Smallmen are at it again.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym61p1iHv3M>'Tiananmen code' embedded in Univ of Tokyo website may have limited views from ChinaTOKYO – A string of characters suggestive of the 1989 Tiananmen Square massacre was temporarily embedded in the source code of the University of Tokyo graduate school's website, possibly restricting views from China, the Mainichi Shimbun has learned.
>Interviews with university officials and others revealed on Dec. 6 that the string was five kanji letters meaning "six four Tiananmen" – possibly referring to the June 4, 1989, massacre of civilians by the People's Liberation Army in Beijing.>>2099988I wonder if that family is christian or not. Chinese evangelicals are batshit insane.
Also
>Cantonese<Han ethnonationalistlmao
>>2100013I don't know what you are talking about, I'm cantonese & anybody regardless of region from southern or northern China can be a Han ethnonationalist. Cantonese people aren't considered to be akin to some kind of American minority group.
Also the dad's fixation on African migrants can be explained by the large community of African migrant workers in Guangzhou that have been there for over a decade.
>>2100079>Why has China not pursued a genuinely universal and socialised healthcare model?Why should people paying their taxes to their local govt and healthcare also pay for healthcare of outsiders? UNIVERSAL healthcare makes sense if you live in a really poor country where you have to introduce healthcare by force, or in some kind of a petromonarchy where the only way to finance healthcare is through state oil revenues
Regardless, Chinese system(s) covers everyone, and they get much, much cheaper prices on everything on top of that. The situation is basically when Westoids were talking shit about USSR's universal healthcare and claiming that USSR had no healthcare because of Soivet free healthcare being tied to residency
>>2100096I can't speak to the Soviet model and discussion surrounding that.
I do not also think that universal healthcare has to be 'universal' in the sense that it applies to non citizens.
More to the point, can you explain the benefits of the current Chinese healthcare model over one that applies premium free and gap free coverage to all citizens? These could be funded via national government, local government, or the danwei.
>>2100103It is gap-free. It just requires more bureaucracy. Today it's computerized, and everyone knows everything about the patient, but before that it required from the patient to transfer their hospital ID card between hospitals.
Also, in China state hospitals, just like state schools are considered higher quality and higher prestige than private ones. It's the opposite of USA, really
>>2100107Is it actually gap-free?
If you consider Mangione; the Chinese were murdering doctors a decade ago for similar economic reasons.
>>2100096>>2100103I CONCEDE THAT THE PRC IS A LOT BETTER THAN THE USA. AND I THINK THAT THE PRCs SYSTEM IS GOOD.
universal healthcare makes sense for catching people who fall through the cracks. because class and economic inequality still exist in the prc and some people move outside the system to pursue better economic opportunities (this is simply a reality, i'm not making a moral judgement of the people or the government policy). for example they violate the rules that constrain their residency and employment to their home province (this is simply a reality, i'm not making a moral judgement of the people or the government policy). people like that are more likely to be outside the system and in precarious economic situations. those people then cannot get healthcare and a medical crisis would push them further into the economic hole. those people die quietly and relatively out of sight. even if you have no sympathy for them and think they deserved it for going against the breaking the law, this ends up being a negative for the country because it puts people into desperate situations where they might turn to crime, underground sex work (yes the usa is worse, but it still exists in the prc), become homeless (yes it's worse in the usa but it still exists in the prc)
>>2100109The problem is that socialism needs workerism.
The Chinese attempted a UBI trial, but met with pushback by proles and peasants because people were getting money for nothing.
Ironically, you need East Asian-style workaholicism to make socialism work.
>>2100168Officially it's socialist.
State capitalism is the economic system of AES states; surplus value is extracted by states, not individual businessmen.
>>2100179Basically, it is at least DotA, dictatorship of the apparatchik.
You have bourgeois businessmen screaming for ultra stimulus to end deflation, because profit margins are becoming extremely thin, while the Party and PBOC says no.
You're in a state where revenues are up, wages are stagnant, but profits are down due to state-mandated overproduction, and the CPC is acting in the interests of the proles instead of businessmen, where real wages keep on increasing due to deflation (cheap Russian energy, overcapacity).
>>2100168>PRC says it isn't socialist yet thoughPhrases like "is socialist" are vague and the cause of many a useless argument. It's best avoided, and called out.
It's a communist state, which has not reached a socialist mode of production. It is run by a communist and therefore socialist party.
*
^^ also tagging
>>2100179>>2100463That has nothing to do with China itself thoughbeit.
As an aside, I find it strange that this kind of lesser-evil-ism doesn't apply domestically. People in the West will gladly throw their support behind imperfectly socialist states like China, but as soon as they encounter the wrong kind of socialist at home they freak the fuck out and start screeching about how anyone who doesn't share the exact same perspective that they do is le bad.
I thought this one was interesting. From Fuzhou, Fujian province. Translation:
The Constitution of the People’s Republic of China is the fundamental law of our country. It serves as the general charter for governing the nation, embodies the concentrated will of the people, possesses the highest legal authority, and lays the foundation for the culture of socialist rule of law. Our current Constitution was enacted in 1982 and was amended in 1988, 1993, 1999, 2004, and 2018. It accompanies us through life, guarding and influencing our lives.
As citizens of the People’s Republic of China, all individuals aged 18 or older, except for those deprived of political rights in accordance with the law, enjoy the right to vote and stand for election, regardless of ethnicity, race, gender, occupation, family background, religious beliefs, education, property status, or length of residence.
This fundamental right to participate in elections is protected by the Constitution and plays an essential role in demonstrating the democratic rights of citizens.
>>2100478I spoke to a couple (friends of my friend). They are small business owners, spoke decent english but my friend had to translate back and forth now and then to help. They were very open to talk about politics, I didn't ask them really it just came up naturally. They said they read western social media and news ("Great Firewall" is basically a joke, everybody uses VPN and it's no big deal), so they know how China is viewed.
They basically emphasized that even though the Chinese system might not be for other countries, it has worked for China. They said the western capitalism "has been tried" in China and it meant China was a poor (semi-) colonized country. It was mostly like "yeah you guys don't like our system but just let us do our thing, we're letting you do your thing". They also said the thing you always hear Dengists on here say, about how the government owns all land and it can only be leased, and how many major parts of the economic system is under state control (they brought this up unprompted, I didn't ask about it specifically). Honestly it kinda amazed me how similar what they said was to what pro-China leftists say down to specific talking points. They complained a bit about taxes and stuff lol (again, business owners) but they were broadly supportive of the CPC (they called it "CCP" lol) and China's path. Also they really don't like Japan lmao.
My friend (Chinese citizen living abroad) who I traveled with said that what they said is basically representative of most Chinese people's opinion, including her own parents.
(pic from a shitty little store in Luoyang lol)
>>2100178For what it's worth, corruption (was?) a serious problem, and a great route for CIA assets to quickly climb up the ranks of the party - they would just pay to win.
My basic understanding is that this was a big part behind the "tigers and flies" anti-corruption campaign.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-corruption_campaign_under_Xi_JinpingOne aspect was podcast rel (also briefly touched on in that wikipedia article under "Counterintelligence rationale" section) - from 2009 to 2013, the Iranians had found an Internet covert channel used by the CIA to communicate with assets (think like regular hobby websites which secretly have a hidden chatroom with your handler) and then were able to passively discover many other covert channel websites due to a CIA design fuckup and then gave these tips to other states, including China, who proceeded to clear house.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2010–2012_killing_of_CIA_sources_in_ChinaThe point being, if you skim that anti-corruption wikipedia article, there's clearly incentives for the CPC to engage in vicious anti-corruption efforts and I hope they did a good job of it.
>>2100796In a nutshell, inflation means there's more money being created, and typically this comes as a result of borrowing, eg businesses taking on loans in order to expand production or increase distribution or whatever. Orthodox economic ideology would say that no inflation means that there's no borrowing because there's no growth or plans for growth, and in the absence of growth there should be contraction, say because companies are scaling back production to more reasonable levels, or because they made bad bets that aren't paying off, or some other kind of market "correction."
This generally sends alarm bells ringing to conventional economists because it means that some one or ones bet wrong, and someone's not going to get paid. Assets get reevaluated and all the sweet, sweet value that was based off these inflated valuations disappears. The (conventional) best case scenario is that you're looking at a recession, worse a depression, or even a total market crash.
>>2100792The woman showed me their Japanese CD player / hi-fi system and then went "even though I hate japanese". One example she brought up was japanese politicians going to temples to pay their respects for the soldiers who died in WW2, and said it would be like germans paying their respects to dead SS soldiers. Then a lot of general stuff about how japanese people are arrogant and act like their culture is superior even though so much of it is stolen from chinese culture. The guy (husband) clarified he doesn't hate all japanese people but still agreed with pretty much everything she said. They're really pissed that the crimes committed against China by Japan have never been properly addressed.
pic: From a temporary exhibition at the National Museum about different iterations of CPC and PRC flags. A lot of children saluting in front of the national emblem with proud parents taking pictures lol.
>>2100796increase in productivity + not printing money = deflation
increase in productivity + printing money = no change to the value of money
stagnant productivity + not printing money = no change to the value of money
stagnant productivity + printing money = inflation
decrease in productivity + not printing money = inflation
decrease in productivity + printing money = superinflation
From a shitty little restaurant in Beijing called "educated youth" or "sent down youth". Not really a tourist-y place. It was full of drunk 70+ year olds smoking hella cigarettes and having a good time. When they left, one guy saw me and jokingly told the staff "oh wow you're eligible to have foreigners here now". Food was good and very cheap. I liked their fried mushrooms.
One thing I gotta say, Chinese beers are horrible. At different places I tried some local beer and most of them had added sugar and some kinda fruity flavor. Gross.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sent-down_youth>>2100797>>2101174>>2100796The capitalist class pays wages in exchange for labour power, while the proletariat have only their labour power. The state starts printing money, increasing its supply. The capitalist class sets the prices of their products and the wages they offer for a set amount of labour power. The reserve army of labour ensures that proletariat will compete for the same measly wages and it takes time for people not bothering to even apply to the shittiest paying jobs. Meanwhile, the capitalists can just raise the prices of their products (or remain on the same price but doing shrinkflation) while he is not spending more on wages. That means more profit.
The state eventually may raise minimum wages but by that time the damage to the working class is already done. Job market competition may eventually set wages higher but by that time the damage to the working class is already done.
The bourgeois state aids the bourgeoisie with inflation.
We see the exact opposite happening in China: their productivity is growing and the state is not printing money, reversing the entire process: the workers know they produce more and can demand more wages from the same employer or get better wages from the competition. This is also why we get those "horrific" videos from China "signalling the next inevitable (tm) collapse," namely p-bourg restaurant owners having to sell more food for the same amount of money (the opposite of shrinkflation).
Once again, China is proven to be a DotP.
>>2100793Any AES is state capitalism. State capitalism is just rightoid slander against socialism, which some (including myself) embrace as African Americans embrace the N-word.
Of course, not all state capitalist economies are socialist. As mentioned elsewhere, the reason Russia isn't socialist isn't because of their socio-economic structure, but because they lack a DotP.
>>2101174inflation is a function of money supply AND velocity of money. Deflation can make workers worse off if it's driven by a drop in the velocity of money.
That said, deflation screws porkies the hardest, as dropping prices and dropping demand eats into their profit margins.
Deflation is in fact bad, but it's bad primarily for capitalism.
>>2101261Porky socialism is a dead end because once RoP goes too low, the place goes neoliberal. Happened in the West.
Apparatchik socialism isn't that promising, but only European socialism collapsed.
>>2101278Was unsure what to call it. Third world is probably wrong, so I added the -ish but might still not be a good description. What would you call Egypt? Developing? Felt kinda like that. Yeah there are cars. But also a lot of poor people, beggars here and there, old crumbling buildings etc.
There's also a bunch of tourists there, no foreign tourists (at this time of the year) but tourists from other parts of China. Unrelated but Chinese teenage girls and young women apparently love to dress up in fancy Qing dynasty (I think) type attire. They were absolutely everywhere.
>>2101288>Third world is probably wrongWe all understood what you meant.
>>2101278 is just a dengoid coping.
>>2101288Jut say poor. Some parts of the country had capital redirected at thel, some other much less so.
Simple as.
>>2101293>We all understood what you meant.Nice thank you, sometimes I'm not the most articulate but whatever.
>is just a dengoid coping.I don't know why he would need to cope. Pro-China socialists usually point out that China is still a developing country when others criticize them for not being "socialist enough". I really want to emphasize that I'm not trying to start shit with either side of the China debate here, just wanna share my observations.
Vid from Luoyang: old guy playing music outside a cozy hot pot restaurant.
>>2101306>Vid from Luoyang: old guy playing music outside a cozy hot pot restaurant.uygha too drunk to keep a beat
still, peak vibes
>>2100322It's a bookshop
>>2100342But we don't say like that
>>2100490>everybody uses VPN and it's no big dealIt IS a big deal when it is, also technically we don't use VPN for that, none of them are VPN protocols
>>2101288From what I've heard a lot of Korean tourists are in Shanghai recently, Luoyang doesn't sound attractive to foreigners it seems
>>2100490>They complained a bit about taxes and stuff lol (again, business owners) but they were broadly supportive of the CPC (they called it "CCP" lol) and China's path. That's funny. Yeah the insistence in Chinese state media to write "CPC" in English and Western media to do "CCP" is political, but you could do a dumb guy thing and be like "hell yeah I love CCP." I can't find it now, but I saw some patriotic Lay Zhang music video awhile ago that had clips from a movie where an actor portrayed somebody from the 1940s writes "C-C-P" on a chalkboard and then turns around looking like a cool dude.
>>2101185>What is the dialectical materialist explanation of why China can't get into good beer?I think they just suck at it, that's my materialist explanation. The best Asian beer I've had was Beerlao which I read had its production set up by East German technicians.
>>2101195>>2101278>>parts of the country are still third world-ishFor what it's worth, they're far from alone there:
http://undocs.org/A/HRC/38/33/ADD.1 (english version attached)
Some quick selections:
>About 40 million [of the USA] live in poverty, 18.5 million in extreme poverty, and 5.3 million live in Third World conditions of absolute poverty.>65. The opioid crisis has devastated many communities, and the addiction to pain-control opioids often leads to heroin, methamphetamine and other substance abuse. Instead of responding with increased funding and improved access to vital care and support, the federal Government and many state governments have instead mounted concerted campaigns to reduce and restrict access to health care by the poorer members of the population.>69. In Alabama and West Virginia, a high proportion of the population is not served by public sewerage and water supply services. Contrary to the assumption in most developed countries that such services should be extended by the government systematically and eventually comprehensively to all areas, neither state was able to provide figures as to the magnitude of the challenge or details of any planned government response >>2101991byd is having a scandal now
>>2101993its not quality issue
>>2101993>>2101993>don't deflecthahaha you spinning retard. Even lib hero Adam Tooze has been talking for the last year about how western EV manufacturers cannot compete on quality or price with Chinese EVs.
TLDR China spent the lockdowns evolving RV manufacture. The West cannot compete therefore it applies tarriffs and begs for tech transfers.
>don't deflecthahahahaha
>>2102135we have seen some loud korean tourists here in china recently according to xiaohongshu(rednote)
>Today, most Chinese tourists are instructed before leaving the countryno instructions ever existed at airports
or customs afaik, except for southeast asia due to scam farms in the sea region, but communicated by the police days before the flight that would require documents to prove intentions(not scams)
>>2102109>>2102117you clearly havent seen youtube in chinese, one reason i no longer consume overseas chinese content
>>2102216That’s a really cool Stealth fighter (it looks like it has a large bomb bay that can carry Cruise Missiles and Anti-Ship Missiles, so it could very well be a mini Stealth Bomber in addition to its Fighter role), and I am very impressed that China is publicly flying a Six Generation Fighter Jet before the U$, though I’m sure the U$ has flown one in secret (remember that most “UFO” sightings are either peoples hallucinations that are drunk/high/mentally disturbed or are U$ DARPA projects such as the OG Stealth Bomber in the 1980s and the latest Drone and Stealth Fighter/Bomber prototypes today), but it is still nice that China is flying one in public before the U$ and that their program seems to be at the same level, if not slightly ahead of the U$ one, ✊😜🇨🇳!
I’m also very impressed that the Chinese were smart enough to avoid the illiterate Russian Copium/Hopium that “Muh Stealth isn’t real/doesn’t work”, and chose to invest Billions of dollars into developing advanced Stealth Fighters like the J-20 (Chinas equivalent to the F-22), J-35 (Chinas equivalent to the F-35), and now this one which I think is called J-36 (Chinas equivalent to the future NGAD), and hopefully soon a true Stealth Bomber (the much awaited H-20, which is suppose to equal the B-2/21), as a massive part of U$ Air Supremacy is their massive amounts of Stealth Aircraft that can penetrate even the most integrated Air Defense system and destroy any target with essentially zero opposition (I get that a Serb got lucky in the 1999 Kosovo war and shot down a F-117, but with the exception of one lucky crap shoot, Stealth Jets have had a 100% success rate of penetrating enemy IADS, as seen by Desert Storm, the U$ Invasion of Iraq, and the Zionist Airstrikes on Syria and Iran, etc.), and the only way to have a chance against this is to build your own Stealth Air Force, not to put your head in the sand and embrace magical thinking that some upgraded Soviet-era SAMs (the S-400 is essentially an upgrade of the 1970s era S-300) will protect you against Aircraft with the radar signature of a small bird, and I think this is a testament to the fact that the PLA learned from Desert Storm that the future of Modern Warfare depended on massive Air/Naval Campaigns with Stealth Aircraft combined with Standoff Cruise Missiles launched by Bombers, Ships, and Submarines destroying an Enemy Force (ie. Air Bases, Naval Bases, SAM sites, Ballistic Missile Launchers, Armored Divisions, Command and Control sites etc.) before the ground troops (both infantry and armored divisions) come in and sweep up the stragglers, not the Anachronistic WWII style fetishization of Artillery, Infantry, and Tank battles that has retarded Russian military strategy since the USSR collapsed, 😂🤣✊😜🇨🇳!
The new spokesperson for China's Ministry of Foreign Affairs, Guo Jiakun, made his appearance.
Guo Jiakun, male, of Mongolian ethnicity, was born in August 1980. He is a university graduate and a member of the Communist Party of China.
中国外交部新任发言人郭嘉昆亮相
郭嘉昆，男，蒙古族，1980年8月生，大学毕业，中共党员。
https://baike.baidu.com/item/%E9%83%AD%E5%98%89%E6%98%86/65284273?fr=api_baidu_opex_festival>>2104130 I’ve only heard of the 'sino' subreddit. I guess their pro-China stance isn’t the core reason, but rather a way to oppose the West. Although it’s quite interesting to see them alongside shenshen on Reddit.
我只是听说过"sino"的reddit板块，我猜他们亲中国不是核心原因，是反对西方的途径
虽然和reddit上面的神友出现在一起挺有趣的
>>2104149 Jiangsu, although my parents are from Henan.
江苏，虽然我父母是河南来的
>>2104154>>2104155Those posts were 100% correct seethe harder.
Engels himself:
>It seems to me, by the way, that there is in fact a connection between Jones’ new move, seen in conjunction with previous more or less successful attempts at such an alliance, <and the fact that the English proletariat is actually becoming more and more bourgeois, so that the ultimate aim of this most bourgeois of all nations would appear to be the possession, alongside the bourgeoisie, of a bourgeois aristocracy and a bourgeois proletariat. >In the case of a nation which exploits the entire world this is, of course, justified to some extent. >>2103419I've seen articles published by burger NGO/Soros funded news websites shitting on Chinese cults lately. It's possible they were deemed inefficient at fomenting regime change in China and now as a net detriment/embarrassment.
Just above was a gusano discussed who starts her video with "I'm not Falun Gong"
>>2102109You know shit's not working when even China basher Chinese expats have to declare non-affiliation with a dangerous cult you helped create. I wonder if the West will sanction them or not.
After China purged most of its sects they moved almost entirely to the West and became a Westoid problem.
>>2104161That's Engels actually
understanding why there couldn't have been a revolution as opposed to denialism practised to this day by the Western radical left.
>>2104155You are never going to defeat the international bourgeoisie seated in your nation without confronting their exploitation of the rest of the world. That's the source of all of their political power, their ability to politically organize the sorting of poorer nations into a hierarchy kept as linear as possible to enforce competition and keep the growth of costs minimal, prevent them from achieving food independence, enforcement of all of this with a military+policing+intelligence apparatus more than powerful enough to take care of you as an afterthought. Western Marxists see themselves as God's gifts to the world but you are mediocre farts out of the Great Satans' asses.
You will not succeed by splitting the global working class via your isolation and selfishness. You will lose to the alliance of your international & national bourgeoisie, the petit boug and the labor aristocrats. You will flip the burger and die of cancer.
>>2104130The message is fundamentally correct, but he is just repeating other people's talking points.
>the Soviet model was not the most suited to China (two different countries with different conditions, levels of development and culture) and being overcentralized and unbalanced>In the end, the deviation from the Soviet model has been proven correct as in the USSR itself, there was desperate need for reforms in the 1980sThese two parts of a sentence suggest different things. It's either not suitable for China while being suitable for some other countries or fundamentally flawed and wrong. The first is reasonable, the second isn't. The Soviet (Bolshevik) model was, in reality, dependent on the existence of a functioning communist party, as they openly admitted before 1950s. There was no functioning communist party since the new lands campaign, and it still held on amazingly well for two decades under leadership that fundamentally didn't know how to steer that machine.
CPC itself seems to be content with the idea of socialism with Chinese characteristics being unique to China, at least from what I read. CPC also seems to be improving in quality while CPSU mostly deteriorated over time. It's still not confident it can end bourgeois and that's alright as long as movement is in the right direction.
Also, while we talk about USSR spreading socialism, it must have felt quite different at the time. It did officially command many local parties to collaborate with their bourgeois, it did nothing for Greece, Indonesia, and many other countries. People tend to overstate the Soviet role since that's what liberal media does to paint the picture of communist movement being foreign saboteurs that had no roots in the country and empower local bourgeois elements. Trots bash the USSR over not starting a war against the entire world all the time since they want communists to be the liberal caricature of themselves.
>>2104154About what you'd expect from reddit. People really should read a book.
>>2104157That only explains the upper stratum of the working class, which has been shrinking in the west for a long time. The rising popularity of "leftism" itself is proof that this is changing, no matter how retarded most of "leftists" are.
>>2104170>>2104168>>2104157Here come the third worldists with their shit!
Gotta make the case as to why actually self-interested proles should support the fascists after all.
>>2104138Thanks for the screenshot.
It's a nice post and I generally agree. However, nothing I've seen written beats this amazing article.
https://monthlyreview.org/2024/11/01/the-new-denial-of-imperialism-on-the-left/ >>2104169 I have visited many websites… this is just one of them.
我看过很多网站……这只是其中之一
>>2104168>>2104154>labor-aristocracyYeah. You know, I think no one has actually read Lenin. Labor aristocracy does
not mean the
entire proletariat of an imperialist nation, but its creme de la creme.
>And in speaking of the British working class the bourgeois student of “British imperialism at the beginning of the twentieth century” is obliged to distinguish systematically between the “upper stratum” of the workers and the “lower stratum of the proletariat proper.” The upper stratum furnishes the bulk of the membership of co-operatives, of trade unions, of sporting clubs and of numerous religious sects. To this level is adapted the electoral system, which in Great Britain is still “sufficiently restricted to exclude the lower stratum of the proletariat proper"!https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1916/imp-hsc/ch08.htm>>2104157And you, petty-bourgeois democrat in Chinese garb, should qoute Engels
in toto >Almost a quarter of a century later, in a letter dated August 11, 1881, Engels speaks of the “worst English trade unions which allow themselves to be led by men sold to, or at least paid by, the middle class”. >In a letter to Kautsky, dated September 12, 1882, Engels wrote: “You ask me what the English workers think about colonial policy. Well, exactly the same as they think about politics in general. There is no workers’ party here, there are only Conservatives and Liberal-Radicals, and the workers gaily share the feast of England’s monopoly of the world market and the colonies.”Thus, labor aristocracy = upper stratum of the proletariat of an imperialist state, a
minority of the proletariat in the executive positions, in the yellow syndicates, instutions of bourgeois culture and other Sorosoid organizations. The
majority of the proletariat is not in the labor aristocracy.
>>2104173 I'm not sure what happened with Qin Gang, but as long as the other spokespersons still hold positions within the system, I believe it should be normal personnel scheduling.
我不清楚秦刚发生了什么东西，但是其它的发言人只要还有在体系内的职位我认为应该是正常的调度
>>2104277When the outcomes are appropriate for their formation. There are many bad signs already: China IS a major investor (rentier) power, second only to US, of course it has parasitic elements.
We will know when these elements are no longer kept in check: hyperfinancialization, destruction of entire industries in China, separation of the working class into higher and lower fractions, imperialist foreign policy, etc. When western predictions start coming true, basically. All these economists who keep talking about the middle income trap, overproduction and all that bs are not stupid, that's what's supposed to happen in capitalism. It doesn't happen in China right now, so it is socialist.
You can't fake being socialist, you can only put a part of monopolistically high profits into the higher fraction of the working class. All indicators but labor aristocracy being happy will show it how it is.
It's very possible that it will happen in the future. Xi has been cracking down on these elements, but they were and still are very powerful. Entire sections of the Chinese government are still controlled by capitalist roaders, or at least that's what Vavilov - who is not a Marxist-Leninist by any means - says in his books and I can't check that independently.
>>2104318https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1871/civil-war-france/ch05.htm>The great social measure of the Commune was its own working existence.So that is one thing - masses consciously engaged in the production and reproduction of social life. Is that present in the PRC?
>They have no ideals to realize, but to set free the elements of the new society with which old collapsing bourgeois society itself is pregnant.Has the PRC liberated all the elements of the new society?
>the Commune intended to abolish that class property which makes the labor of the many the wealth of the few.Has the PRC abolished private property?
>The Commune was formed of the municipal councillors, chosen by universal suffrage in the various wards of the town, responsible and revocable at short terms.>From the members of the Commune downwards, the public service had to be done at workman’s wage. […] Not only municipal administration, but the whole initiative hitherto exercised by the state was laid into the hands of the Commune. How easily are state functionaries replacable in the PRC? What are their wages?
>>2104316 Considering the characteristics of the anonymous section, I think the number of abysmal users is limited, or they are not users of this website.
考虑匿名板块的特性，我想糟糕的用户应该是有限的，或者不是这个网站的用户
Times the People's Republic of China was clearly on the wrong side of the conflict, and why.
Is this a consistent characteristic of the state, or does it peak under certain leaders?
Screencaps:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Third_World_relations>>2104325You didn't really answer all my questions.
You answered what socialism is by citing an author writing about a specific form of socialism that existed only in a portion of a city for a brief period of time, but you didn't explain why it must be this way. Is it just because some books say it must be like so? Why must China do what the failed Paris commune did to be considered socialism? What is the purpose of socialism? How is following your quoted imperative conducive to this purpose?
You also didn't explain what the purpose of socialism is.
>>2104340>You also didn't explain what the purpose of socialism is.Very nice. Let us use eschatological Christian thinking to justify social transformation. Well, not social transformation, social relabeling of capitalistic productive relations.
>by citing an authorMarx was just an author, and you're just an idiot.
>>2104332 Do you want Xi Jinping to give you money? I haven’t even received any, and you want some?
你想要习近平给你发钱？我都没拿到你还想要
>>2104325>So that is one thing - masses consciously engaged in the production and reproduction of social life. Is that present in the PRC? yes
>Has the PRC liberated all the elements of the new society?yes
>Has the PRC abolished private property?yes
>How easily are state functionaries replacable in the PRC?Very easy.
>What are their wages?Workman's wage.
Got any more questions?
>>2100032I want to go clubbing in shanghai, tho it's kinda sad so many people on their damn phones.
>>2104431One last question, how hard was it to get your Visa? I'm planning a trip and it seems like they want a lot of documentation if you're solo-travelling. I don't have friends or family over there, so it might be different.
>>2104154what marx "planned" means jack shit. he wasn't a prophet. and in any case he didn't set forth a rigorous action plan. rather attempted to predict how humanity might progress and regress through vaguely defined modes of production based on changing economic realities themselves caused by technological advances.
the prc today is not on rails towards real communism. that it will reach it is not certain. as long as class exists (and it does in the prc), the bourgeoise will relentlessly pursue their own material interests and find conduits to power and endanger whatever progress made this is also true as long as class exists outside the prc too.
>>2105207angel of communism said nothing about lenin
>>2105207Lenin specifically called the NEP a retreat; meanwhile Stalin had to end it because the mode of production was giving birth to the Kulak class.
You are yapping ahistorical nonsense.
>>2104209Engels has become """"""""""third worldist"""""""""".
Its over for the western """left""".
>>2105280Hello from Beijing.
One of the amazing things I've discovered is that for quite a few medical problems, it's cheaper to pay for airfare to Beijing, two nights stay, and a medical visit than it is to get ripped off by Brian Thompson's successor.
>>2105253>NEP a retreatHe called a very specific set of policies that. NEP as a whole wasn't retreat, it was socialism. Soviets had to compromise on kulaks and private ownership because Russia was devastated by war, but at the same time they continued their most brave policies on a voluntary basis. Lack of enforcement of those was the retreat Lenin spoke of
>Stalin had to end it because the mode of production was giving birth to the Kulak class.Dude, NEP ended because socialist part of the economy outgrew capitalist one. When NEP ended, kulaks weren't producing as much grain as collective farms for years by that point. The whole point of disbanding collective farms at first in 1930s was because kulaks, who got impoverished by voluntary collective farms taking over their markets, tried to sneak into collective farms.
All in all, NEP was CONSISTENT with policies that came after. It was a straight line towards kulaks being removed from any sort of relevance to the economy
>>2105207>What Lenin envisioned for the USSR was originally not unlike that of contemporary China.No, what Lenin envisioned for the USSR was to link up with the German revolutionaries and build a centralized industrial economy in Russia with their help. The NEP was a step backwards and was openly acknowledged as such.
>It was apparent as soon as the Nazis took power that the German war machine would be turned on the USSR.Soviet industrialization program and end of the NEP predates the Nazis taking power.
https://archive.ph/sG8JM>China’s drive to give Taiwanese visitors local IDs alarms Taipei>China is signing growing numbers of Taiwanese people up for local resident or even identity cards, in a drive to incorporate them into its society that is setting off alarm bells in Taipei.>Taiwan government officials said that Beijing had become “focused” on getting visiting Taiwanese to apply for Chinese resident cards, bank accounts and local mobile phone numbers — known as the “three documents” — with many then being given the local identity cards which are reserved for citizens.>“We are concerned that when more and more Taiwanese have Chinese citizenship, it will compromise our jurisdiction,” said a senior China policy official in Taipei. “If a Taiwanese with a Chinese ID was involved in an incident here, China could say they need to take care of the issue because the person is their citizen and intervene in our domestic affairs.”>The push is seen as particularly concerning as China is steadily expanding a multi-faceted pressure campaign against Taiwan. Beijing claims the island as part of its territory and threatens to take it by force if Taipei resists unification indefinitely.>Similar tactics of giving local status to citizens from neighbouring countries has long been part of Russia’s playbook. Moscow issued passports to eastern Ukrainians who moved to Russia after it helped to orchestrate conflict in the region in 2014. Russia also gave citizenship to residents of two breakaway regions of Georgia and then cited the need to protect them as a pretext for a brief 2008 war.>Taiwanese officials said China’s push to give more Taiwanese local papers had not reached that level yet, but it posed a risk of the same nature. >The issue surfaced when a Taiwanese video blogger’s documentary in late December suggested hundreds of thousands of Taiwanese had Chinese identity papers. Lin Chin-cheng, a Taiwanese who heads a Chinese government-backed start-up centre for youth entrepreneurs from Taiwan in the Chinese city of Quanzhou, claims in the film that about 200,000 Taiwanese hold Chinese IDs. >That claim could not be confirmed. But government officials, tourists and businesspeople from Taiwan said visitors to China in recent months had been asked to fill in applications for the “three documents”.>At China’s centenary celebrations for the Whampoa Military Academy last year, veterans from Taiwan were signed up at special desks, participants said. The Straits Forum, an annual event which is part of the Chinese Communist party’s United Front tactics to engage Taiwanese not openly hostile to it, also featured “three documents” application desks. Three Taiwanese people who recently travelled to China on a ferry from Taiwan-controlled Kinmen said that arrival procedures in Xiamen now included filling in forms which they only later understood were applications for those documents.>The resident card for Taiwanese which is part of the “three documents” does not amount to Chinese citizenship — Beijing presents it as a preferential measure to allow Taiwanese equal access to local services. >But Taipei fears it is becoming the entry point into citizen status. “The local ID frequently is the immediate next step, or is even directly offered instead of the resident card,” said a national security official. Taiwan officials added that local IDs were being heavily promoted as an opportunity for better conditions on loans or home sales.>Under Taiwanese law, citizens who take up a Chinese ID will have their Taiwanese household registration revoked. But Taipei struggles to effectively monitor its citizens’ actions in China as Beijing has cut off almost all official communication with the Taiwanese government though cross-Strait travel, trade and investment built over decades continue. According to the government’s statistics office, 217,000 Taiwanese worked in China as of 2023 — only half of the numbers seen at the peak a decade ago, but still a 22 per cent increase over the previous year. >Taiwan president Lai Ching-te last week warned the public not to be lured in by the supposed short-term gain of Chinese papers. >“We have an old saying in Taiwan: Free things turn out very costly. That is very true,” he told reporters after his New Year address. Lai pointed to the many Chinese people taking enormous risks to illegally migrate to other nations, arguing that taking up a Chinese ID at this time was absurd for a citizen of a democratic country and could prove “the end of your road into the world”. >The ministry of foreign affairs in Beijing did not respond to a request for comment. >>2106161>>2106578The Communist Party of China never abandoned the rural areas to rot. In America, the Democrats abandoned the country and the "Left" by-and-large doesn't care about them. As both think rural Americans deserve to be stupid and poor, that leaves only the GOPers to rule in
de facto one-party governments.
>>2106589Nope, just westoids resorting to holocaust denial-levels of disingenuousness where all of this seething is supposed to make China equal to the US as imperialists and threats to global socialist movements, so the US becomes
only as bad as China as a
fellow imperialist/bourgeois/anti-socialist nation, thus, if you take particular issue with US aggression towards China, then you're not against US imperialism anymore, actually you're playing favouritism between bourgeois states out of vulgar anti-Americanism, a crime they're not committing when they merely display passivity towards the US destabilising the shit out of Syria to privatize their oil as they equally do towards China's imperialism of providing loans to Africa and then writing them off.
>>2105945>If a Taiwanese with a Chinese ID was involved in an incident here, China could say they need to take care of the issue because the person is their citizen and intervene in our domestic affairs.Beijing claims Taiwan since forever
>But Taipei struggles to effectively monitor its citizens’ actions in China as Beijing has cut off almost all official communication with the Taiwanese government though cross-Strait travel, trade and investment built over decades continue.It was Taipei no longer accepting continental tourists, not even transferring at taiwanese airports
>We have an old saying in Taiwan: Free things turn out very costly.i cant even
>arguing that taking up a Chinese ID at this time was absurd for a citizen of a democratic country and could prove “the end of your road into the world”. > road into the worldit means leaving taiwan anyway, you can't even get into UN building with a taiwanese passport
Residency means you are going to live there for a long time, not a citizenship
Beijing already claiming taiwan means they already accept their citizenship, Hongkongers also don't have a "chinese ID" since they are under different jurisdiction
>>2106006yes and thats slightly relevant to recent healthcare reform controversy
>>2106161>>2106578burger farmers aint small farmers
>>2106589My bad OG I just like the way they dance when you shoot at their feet. Gotta show the newfags what they're walking into; there were too many pretending to understand how mods here operate.
When they panic delete a bunch of posts it means the lolcow cycle has elapsed, they will grumble in the Matrix, and piss everyone off by making the most cancer threads anyone has ever seen. Time to go pollinate.
>>2107193Wrong. Tiktok isnt "shrinking brain size". That's just common pseudo intellectual propaganda
What's hurting the youth is sociolegal infantilism
https://archive.ph/tD1lp>Younger Americans are friendlier to China>They are much less likely to see the country as an enemy than their parents>THE competition between America and China is infiltrating college dorm rooms. Citing national security concerns, at least 29 states have banned TikTok, the video app owned by ByteDance, a Chinese firm, on government devices. Many universities also banned students from using the app on campus wifi. In practice, that means students will use data, not wifi, to watch videos of friends revealing their outfits for sorority recruitment. But young people’s surprise over the TikTok bans may also reveal how differently they view China from their parents. >Recent polling from The Economist and YouGov shows the startling difference in Americans’ views of China by age group. Roughly 25% of Americans aged 18 to 44 said they view China as an enemy, compared with about 52% of those 45 and over (see chart). Almost as many young Americans said they view China as “friendly” as those who said the country was an “enemy”. Just 4% of older Americans see China as friendly.>Young Americans were also less likely to see Russia as an enemy than their older peers, though all ages expressed more hostility towards Russia than China. This is probably due to the war in Ukraine, and older Americans’ lingering dislike for the Soviet Union during the cold war.>Meanwhile, views of China among partisans are shifting. Republicans have long been more likely than Democrats to view China as an adversary. But both parties have become more hawkish. When Donald Trump took office in 2017, just 10% of Democrats and 20% of Republicans said they believed China to be an enemy. As of last week, 34% of Democrats and 48% of Republicans took this view >>2107597>fascist tiktok propaganda!!the westoid is more outraged at fascists on the chinese app than fascists in his country
if tiktok didn’t exist they would post elsewhere, if you got up from your ass they wouldn’t exist, pretty simple
>>2108169Adults in this country hate yt and instagram shorts too, they are retarded
But we are not usa so we don't need to pretend tiktok is worse because communism so …
>>2107597And all other parties decided not to use tiktok because they're fascist anti-china morons. Plus they banned EU employees from having it. Fascist in chief Olaf Scholz said he would do a tiktok account but "he wouldn't dance on it" as if that were what people do on that app mostly. Not to mention how mainstream xenophobia and colonial ideas are, printed proudly on state media and private media.
The AfD isn't even that extreme as people make it out to be. They're just as bad as the rest of the parties. Bunch of Nazis.
>>2108246Xi is not pumping in the stimulus because:
-1 Deflation is allowing the state to capture more of the real economy (20-30% of GDP right now, with the Russians actually having a larger SOE sector).
-2 The trade war may bolster inflation by crashing the RMB, so it's better to let the trade war kick in before considering stimulus, as opposed to cutting then boosting rates.
-3 China has heavy government debt, which, while lesser than state assets, can't be allowed to get out of control.
-4 The Chinese economy, at least its real productive aspect, is still doing fine.
>>2100763Naive western baby "Maoists" who idolize Mao as this Ultra Left savior figure lmao.
Mao was one of the most brutally pragmatic communists in history. More so than even Lenin.
Just read the transcripts from his meeting with Nixon lmao. Mao would fucking LOVE China right now and it's not even a debate.
>>2109860>>2109939Also, Westoids will not survive China's prophetised
chip flood
>>2111655Do you unironically believe it’s degenerate to smoke weed and eat street food?
>>2111658China sided with the US in every Cold War proxy conflict from the mid 70s onward. They supplied weapons to anti-communist forces in Afghanistan, Angola, and elsewhere.
https://www.globalissues.org/article/258/anatomy-of-a-victory-cias-covert-afghan-warhttps://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/china-quarterly/article/abs/chinas-third-world-foreign-policy-the-case-of-angola-and-mozambique-196193/65F93E21ABDCF7137ECD2B9F977C4F55This is well established and anybody with a basic knowledge of the Cold War is aware of it.
>>2111650>liberalize way moreWhere? China has never privatized it's economy
>alliance with the USWhere, again? Never happened, China stayed neutral, only intervening in countries it had a direct border with
>>2111698>China has never privatized it's economyYes it did lmao. It allowed the massive growth of private industry to the point where Xinhua itself reported it was responsible for 60% of GDP growth.
https://english.news.cn/20231114/5358d3cdb3e341e9a8f49031bdfdc410/c.html>China stayed neutral, only intervening in countries it had a direct border withThey don't share a border with Angola, but they still armed UNITA. Also even if they did only intervene in countries they shared a border with, they intervened on the side of the US and local anti-communists. That's not neutrality, that's collaboration with imperialism. Finally even if they were neutral (they werent) aren't you guys always saying that being neutral between imperialism and socialism is siding with imperialism?
>>2111648>>2111743Dengoids everyone.
>>2111711>more leftist memes is inherently goodYes, more memecoms to shit up the internet!
>>2111746nope it just makes you weak complacent and retarded like all addictions
>>2111747you should go back to your radlib success stories thread, clown
>>2111721They were from 1976-1991, as proven by their active cooperation against the USSR during that period.
>>2111754>nope it just makes you weak complacent and retarded like all addictionsUsing weed isn't the same as being addicted to it. It's a more mild and less toxic intoxicant than alcohol. Also weed is legal in the DPRK and is grown on state owned farms.
>>2112043Absolutely, tiktok is definitely the lesser evil of the current internet paradigm, it doesn't actively push harmful content if you aren't looking for it nearly as much. It does follow the "responsible" practices that used to be common sense. It is also the place where "indie", random-guy-with-a-camera, people are nowadays with how corporate youtube has become. Hating on it
in particular when you have goebbels broadcasting live on twitter, or the genune evil shit on instagram, to complain about, is doing the USG's bidding; usually under the guise of generational idpol.
>>2112131And just like with american platforms you can help change that by presenting eductanional materials and engaging in dialouges about it.
Difference is the chinese app won't censor those sources and dialouges if they gain traction.
>January 14, 2025 –Oppo and Realme face backlash for pre-installed apps violating user privacy. >Sensitive data was accessed; officials demand accountability.
>Oppo and Realme, two major smartphone brands, face a firestorm over a shocking data privacy scandal. >Pre-installed apps on their devices have been found accessing users’ personal information, including contact lists and phone numbers, without consent.
>The Fineasy loan app, embedded in certain phone models since 2023, is at the center of the controversy. >Alarmingly, users cannot uninstall this app, which has been flagged for lacking a license from Thailand’s central bank to operate as a digital loan service.
>Pol Col Suraphong Plengkham, a director from the Personal Data Protection Commission said:This app's invasive data collection is a gross violation of user privacy. >Thailand’s National Broadcasting and Telecommunications Commission (NBTC) has intervened, ordering the suspension of phone sales with the app pre-installed. >Oppo and Realme have apologized, stating they are working to remove the app and offering support for users to uninstall it.>However, Pol Gen Nathathorn Prousoontorn, NBTC commissioner, noted:The absence of proper oversight of pre-installed apps is a systemic flaw that must be addressed immediately. >Critics argue this scandal underscores the risks of pre-installed software and lax enforcement of data protection laws. >While the brands claim no data leakage occurred, the incident has left consumers questioning their digital safety.https://www.vpnranks.com/news/oppo-realme-phones-caught-in-app-data-privacy-scandal/Bankrupt bourgeois to own capitalism, huh?
>>2112498Another proof that feds always had their fingers in 4chan, with Moot’s mom being FBI and Hiromoot being good friends with the owner of 8chan, Jim Watkins, who is ‘former’ CIA.
>>2112525Consumerism is when cooking videos
>>2111974I love this rebellion against the New Cold War. Honestly, I wonder what would happen if they tried to ban Genshin Impact and Honkai: Star Rail. Gamers might unironically storm the Capitol to get their waifu harem back.
>>2112498>Am I crazy or does this feel like something that would be considered lolzy in around 2010? There's absolutely no subversiveness left anywhere on that board, it's literally children-tier understanding of being subversiveYes, it would have. QBoomers, /pol/yps and other cancerous rightoid newfags would have been laughed off the board. Back then, they were probably on Free Republic or Stormfront braying for Julian Assange to be waterboarded.
>>2112440>it's interesting how both sides would vigorously deny this accusationNo they wouldn't. Xi has openly praised the period from 1976-1991 as a period of extraordinary close relations between the US and China, and called Henry Kissinger a "friend of the Chinese people" for achieving the diplomatic breakthrough that led to it. It was a de facto alliance no matter how hard you want to cope about it.
>>2112441>But both USSR and USA supported Iran against Iraq.Virtually everybody played both sides of that conflict to some degree, but US and Soviet support greatly favoured Iraq more so than Iran. Im actually not sure if the Soviets supported Iran at all actually, and the American support consisted of a handful of weapons secretly given to the Iranians without the knowledge or permission of Congress. US support for Iraq was open, official, and given in much greater quantities. Meanwhile the USSR was their largest arms supplier. Its possible to be allied to two countries even if those countries are enemies of each other. The DPRK is actually another good example of this, since they maintained good relations with both China and the Soviet Union despite the intense hostility between the two.
>>2112733the comments on XHS seem to disagree
there are many communists there
>>2104457Clubs in Shanghai are a thousand times better than clubs in Fatland.
You can actually enjoy things there because drunktards get kicked out really fast. Everything is clean and they make sure they enforce the rules. On top of that, alcohol is super cheap and they give it to you for free when you are new.
>>2113075Based tbh. I saw western leftist accounts on X doing the standard thing of
>Erm Ackshually xiaohongshu is for the RICH KIDS in China, you should be looking at kuaishou for content made outside the privileged cities!which is just an attempt at poverty fetishism which isn't the point of Marxism.
>>2113279 I said this website can be directly accessed.
我说过这个网站是可以直连的
>>2113185Does anyone take these faux-smug tick-tock weirdo's seriously? They all seem like a bunch of friendless losers trying desperately to find connection through projecting what they seen in shitty burger movies as the personalities of extroverts.
The lack of real irl human interaction you can almost see emanating in waves from any such tick tock video posted at random.
>>2113314><Closely unite around the Party Central Committee with Comrade Xi Jinping at its core and strive to achieve great victories in building socialism with Chinese characteristics in the new era.The average american primarily never thinks about anything outside of their borders.
Everything being a 'shithole' outside of them is a given, no photos in gray needed either. it has to be to justify the way they live.
>>2113312Yeah people that show their face tend to be like that. They see their face as a brand and flandarize themselves to be marketable.
Under communism everyone will be required to make a fursona.
>>2113242I am directly accessing leftypol, xiaohongshu was known for overseas Chinese users thus requires no VPN to access from outside China
>>2113247It does not allow links or qr codes
>>2113482>why are you such a whiny loser?Firstly, rude.
>i would rather this site be less anglo world focused to improve discussion and provide more perspectives and news from communists around the worldYeah I understand that's the assumption that would be the result and I'd love for that to be true, but it's already obvious that a significant amount of people on leftypol don't want this and will endeavour to prevent this.
>but maybe that would get in the way of you being an embittered demoralizer whose politics are mostly about complaining about le westoidsNo need for this, you're talking like a righteous cunt which is how I suspect westoids will talk to Chinese comrades if they were here in any appreciable number, so thanks for acting like a fucking stereotype while complaining about me jumping to conclusions based on stereotypes.
>>2113534i apologize that i was so hostile, i misread your tone as suggesting that the only reason anyone would want a more international /leftypol/ is because arrogant westerners want to "teach" the rest of the world. that kind of cynical bitterness is a common sentiment on /leftypol/ so ironically i responded cynically and bitterly assuming thats what you were doing. sorry about that
>it's already obvious that a significant amount of people on leftypol don't want this and will endeavour to prevent [more international, less anglophone, less western centered userbase].what makes you say this? the most engagement on here afaict comes from geopolitical discussion, and the various non-anglo threads we've had tend to get engagement and plenty of good faith curiosity from anglo posters. if thats not youre impression im open to hearing otherwise, but it seems to me that for an anonymous imageboard that does have plenty of shitposting and bait, /leftypol/ is largely respectful and encouraging in that regard
>>2113600>>2113593Because the criticisms always seem to take assertions about China made in the west, accepts them uncritically as true and then uses them to start denigrating MLs as "traitors to Marxism" or something like that, then immediately followed up with self-promotion about how their own politics never even had a revolution to betray and thus it's obviously the purest.
I'm all for discussions about the CPC, but the discussions to be had are inevitably very complex and requires a lot more analysis of the theory that underpins China and historical facts about socialist projects generally than
>China has billionaires, China has abandoned socialism, MLM wins. >>2113639>Because the criticisms always seem to take assertions about China made in the west, accepts them uncritically as trueSometimes, but again I don't see how that translates to chauvinism against Chinese people in general. If somebody says some tired shit about suicide nets it's hardly an attack on Chinese people as a nation. It's essentially the same sort of criticism that you'd level at any government you consider bourgeois.
>accepts them uncritically as true and then uses them to start denigrating MLs as "traitors to Marxism"A lot of anti-China people are hardline MLs who regard China as revisionist.
>>2113645>Sometimes, but again I don't see how that translates to chauvinism against Chinese people in generalBecause you're not thinking of the next logical level of conversation which is "why haven't the Chinese themselves sussed out or care that China ain't communist" which invariably does end up with chauvinistic takes
>A lot of anti-China people are hardline MLs who regard China as revisionistA lot more are ultras, it's less likely that MLs are going to condemn the "Dengism" of modern China so harshly because the NEP was based on similar evaluations about socialist development in a under developed nation.
>>2113655>why haven't the Chinese themselves sussed out or care that China ain't communistUsually the explanation is that they are propagandized, which isn't chauvinist if you believe that Westerners are equally propagandized. Alternatively they may argue that China's not being communist is an open secret and people just don't care for whatever reason. The point is that there is a clear tendency among some people to read chauvinism and even racial hatred into statements when there is none, since it makes those arguments easier to dismiss.
>it's less likely that MLs are going to condemn the "Dengism" of modern China so harshly because the NEP was based on similar evaluations about socialist development in a under developed nationMLs are less likely to condemn it because being an ML is basically a precondition for believing China is socialist. So anybody who believes this will be an ML (or some rightoid seething about Chicoms), but not all MLs will believe it. The NEP comparison is a bad one anyways since it only lasted 7 years and wasn't still in place after the USSR industrialized. I've also met MLs who weren't supportive of the NEP anyways and consider it a right deviation that Stalin thankfully corrected.
>>2113075>>2113169>Yeah, the US has lost their zoomers, flawless Chinese cultural victory. Is this a reverse scenario compared to the Cold War where Soviet citizens were amazed by all the consumer items that were available to everybody in the West?I've seen people in past incarnations of this thread say that soft power doesn't matter. I must say that with the impending TikTok ban and the migration to XHS, I must strongly disagree. We're seeing the rejection of the New Cold War against China.
>>2113468>when America loses the economic and geopolitical battle to China we'll still have our cultural superiority!Like Battlefield 2042 or Concord?
>>2113682The chauvinism is in claiming that without a doubt China is not a socialist nation and the people who reside here ought to agree and act accordingly. Chinese acceptance of the CPC being due to them being bought off with iPhone or successfully propagandised by just having a couple of Hammer and Sickles performatively displayed in government buildings is absolutely chauvinism.
>NEP bad comparison because Stalin chose to replace it And Deng brought it back, it's not a invalid idea just because Stalin decided on a different and also valid model for development.
>>2113888Probably, but it'd be difficult for people who've neither had a revolution nor had to navigate socialist construction to make such a confident conclusion, based on generalisations like China being identical to the west and thus the same criticisms made about western markets and capitalism can be mindlessly applied exactly to China's market and state capitalism, Chinese class consciousness is the same as the west's level of class consciousness and that's why their proletariat is supposedly as accepting of capitalism as the average western proletarian.
As a critique, it's just a disrespectful level of disinterest in what they're choosing to critique and, yes, that's because of chauvinism.
>>2113991The DPRK is a small nation fighting for it's survival, it's not likely to damage the egos of the western chauvinists. But looks, I've explained over and over that worthwhile and effortful critiques are fine, but assertions that one can critique China because they understand the west is chauvinism. Arguing that China isn't socialist because its development hasn't reached it's conclusion yet and therefore it never will, fine, that's merely just overzealous with wanting to write off China's project and probably is out of a chauvinistic desire to not see China succeed and that's the cope, but strictly speaking it wouldn't be an intrinsically chauvinistic critique, just a pointless one.
But there, is that enough of a compromise? Will you stop repeatedly replying to the effect of
>Hmm nah I'm not convinced, I think you just WANT to see chauvinism in westoids presuming to school China on socialism from a position of little success >>2113997 (me)
And honestly the more I look into it through xhs queer people may have it better in china than most places. Main issue seems to be laws about discrimination towards them are binarized, but that's gonna improve soon.
It's funny that Saboflair up there is arguing that "actually, no chauvinism"
And then there's this guy,
>>2114074 making these sorts of presumptive statements.
>The Chinese people are so contented with their corporatist economy, their quality of life, that it doesn't occur to them they should be mad they are slaves? That's a depressing thought and shows that China desperately needs Proletarian Violence badly.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protest_and_dissent_in_ChinaCouple of things:
1. Right back at you that Western people are so contented with the everything that they can't even be bothered to fight against their genocide-supporting governments.
2. You couldn't even be bothered to like, look it up? Yeah I get that half the examples on the page are glowops, but the other half ain't, protest and dissent in the PRC is alive and well,
>>2113841>Is there really no anti-Dengist Maoist groups that exploded a bomb or two in Tienanmen Square?I'd have to check the Little Red Book app but all I'm coming up with is this
>>2113871>Why would there be? People are happy and optimistic.Chinese people can wild out. Social media is crazy (in a good way) when people get mad, you'll see comments about killing the rich and beating the cops to death when they do something they don't like (this is from the other day, people beating up an undercover cop at a protest against the police, apparently for covering up a child homicide).
>>2114110>protests in Chinaprotests aren't terrorism, and besides most of these are about local governing issues rather than broad ideological opposition to the Chinese state.
>Right back at you that Western people are so contented with the everything that they can't even be bothered to fight against their genocide-supporting governments.There is far more terrorism in the US than in China, a CEO was murdered on the streets last month and there have been 2 assassination attempts recently against the president-elect
>>2114115>china rn is at worst a peacefully developing social-democracya peacefully developing social-democracy IS the worst circumstance possible, there is in fact no government system more abhorrently evil than a peacefully developing social-democracy
>>2114330like, isn't that the whole point of socialism as per marx n shit
fish in the morning, philosophize at noon, do physics in the evening
>>2114387It does at the very least build the soft power within the US that people are always worried is undermining China with this integration of consumer cultures, as though obviously Mickey Mouse trumps Genshin Impact (
for some reason that I can't be bothered to keep arguing about), but what is the alternative? Permanent, global cultural revolution where China charges the rednote brigades to attack cringe and slop wherever it is found on the internet?
>>2114397Slop is a constant in human society. Before any computers, there were poorly written entirely forgettable but hugely popular books about love and shit. And before that, say, in Rome or Greece, it was theaters and sports.
Just grow a thicker skin, boomer
>>2114414 okay this "meme" has actually been brought over by people who frequently visit Western websites for quite some time now
好吧这个梗其实早就被经常去西方网站的人搬过来一段时间了
>>2114164>broad ideological opposition to the Chinese state.Can you explain why Chinese people should have "broad ideological opposition to the Chinese state"?
>a CEO was murdered on the streets last month So its better for regular people to do it, not for the government to execute billionaires and CEOs? Why?
>there is in fact no government system more abhorrently evil than a peacefully developing social-democracyWhy?
>>2114183>I didn't say that there aren't people who hold that view and are also actually chauvinistNo you didn't, I just think its too damn funny that you try to have it one way and then reality quickly asserts itself the other way.
Happens a lot with you.
>good faith criticismI'm pretty sure I've said this before, but a lot of this "good faith criticism", no matter how well-intentioned, will always be in vain, and I consider it the height of arrogance to constantly pontificate about "critical support" on the internet. /leftypol/ is already a niche-as fuck community. Who are the ones who
REALLY need to read the giant walls of text that get posted? Not me, not you either I'm guessing. Does anyone here genuinely thinks CPC cadres are reading any of this?
>>2114381The difference is Xitter allows that type of content. Now the stuff I saw isn't against the guidelines afaik but its a long way off from "The PRC is traditionalist" (In the burger evangelical sense) that some people argue (Including a certain someone covered by ordinance 1).
Not a complaint, I'm pleasantly surprised really.
>>2114431>I'm pretty sure I've said this before, but a lot of this "good faith criticism", no matter how well-intentioned, will always be in vainSabo cat has also made this point before, but from the angle of it being fine if leftypol is flooded with CNN-tier takes on China because it's a niche imageboard that will never have an impact on the real world, so people should just get over thinking "critical support" for China is a thing and just let the people constantly seething about the CPC speak freely.
Which, tbh, I'm not having this discussion out of some idea that by calling out chauvinism I'm helping China in any material or idealistic sense, I just think if we
are going to critique China, it has to go beyond this very basic level of asserting that CNN is correct and China is simply capitalist AND hypocritical as well, I.e worse idealistically than the west, while being materially identical. It's just a boring and overly simplistic point to make that does just end up with that side saying
>Wah you can't claim my authoritative talking about a project I have no interest in is rooting in chauvinism >I think you just don't understand that when I'm criticising the CPC at every opportunity, it's because *I don't care* about China in the way people arguing with me do>Simping for China won't have any impact on China y'know so stop being a tryhard debate broAnd so on and so forth
>>2114416It was already on bilibili and localized on telegram, but alt righters are also coming to xiaohongshu with their hyperborean memes
For example this ID palladiooalgo
>>2114431>Can you explain why Chinese people should have "broad ideological opposition to the Chinese state"?They are slaves under a capitalist system
>So its better for regular people to do it, not for the government to execute billionaires and CEOs? Why?I didn't say it necessarily was, I was simply using it as an example of American opposition to their ruling class in contrast to Chinese. For the record though, the fact that their is billionaries in China in the first place TO execute reflects highly on the character of that state.
"We must not always attach too much importance to violent attacks on the bourgeoisie; they may be motivated by the desire to reform and perfect capitalism." G.S.
>Why?It is a dictatorship of incapacity, it inculcates a condition of decadence into both classes by which they lose all class energy, it is a circumstance in which a ruling class of philanthropic politicians control a mass lost in hedonistic self-gratification. Read Reflections on Violence.
>>2114877"""">Can you explain why Chinese people should have "broad ideological opposition to the Chinese state"?
They are slaves under a capitalist system""""
I think the better question is can you explain how you actually know that? Feels like you're just making shit up
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