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Sites that have active live-blogs:
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https://www.middleeasteye.net/israel-palestine-hamas-war-gaza-live-invasionโข The Guardian:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/palestinian-territoriesโข Times of Israel:
https://www.timesofisrael.com/topic/liveblog/ (trigger warning)
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WIKIOur own wiki. Be sure to add to it and create branching articles:
https://wiki.leftypol.org/wiki/2023_IsraelโGaza_war [Currently Down]
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๐ฃ๏ธ
RECOMMENDED SITES โ๏ธ
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https://electronicintifada.net From the UK, single issue long time Palestinian investigative and general reporting, critical source
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https://mondoweiss.net/ From the USA
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https://new.thecradle.co/Regional news from an anti-imperialist perspective
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https://www.btselem.org/Isrsaeli Premier Human Rights org
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https://www.972mag.com/Left news and opinion webzine from Tel-Aviv
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https://decolonizepalestine.com/A collection of resources for organizers and anyone who wants to learn more about Palestine
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https://www.normanfinkelstein.com/blogs/Known anti-zionist academic Norman Finkelstein's blog
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RESISTANCE๐ฃ๐ซ
al-Qassam Brigades
https://en.alqassam.ps/PFLP
http://pflp.ps/โโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโ
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TAKE ACTION AND TOUCH GRASS ๐ด๐ฅ
(USA)
โข
https://www.answercoalition.org/join_a_protest_near_you_free_palestine (UK+USA)
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https://www.palestineaction.org/ โโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโโ
HIDE JIDF POSTS, IGNORE GLOWIE BAIT, DO NOT REPLY TO MOSSAD POSTERS(This includes blatantly obvious concern failtrolling/fedposting, painfully unfunny/nuclear misanthropic autism [ie. /pol/] and derailing/hyper sectarian schizophrenia, excessive doomer and jewish-blood-quantum posting)
Always remember to double-check your sources, as well as provide access to it.
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>>2106168hez failed to defend palestine, but not to defend its territories
houthis didnt fail at all, they're still fucking up a major trade route for the zionist and sending them drones
>>2107270>F for *GazaAlso I should say
F for West Bank. I told everyone they won't end this war until they arrive at their final solution to the Palestinian question. They are going to Gaza The West Bank before this war is done. Probably another 2-3 years at least.
For a long time, the enemies have been planning, skillfully and with precision, for the achievement of what they have attained. They took into consideration the causes affecting the current of events. They strived to amass great and substantive material wealth which they devoted to the realizations of their dream. With their money, they took control of the world media, news agencies, the press, publishing houses, broadcasting stations, and others. With their money they stirred revolutions in various parts of the world with the purpose of achieving their interests and reaping the fruit therein. They were behind the French Revolution, the Communist revolution and most of the revolutions we heard and hear about, here and there. With their money they formed secret societies, such as Freemasons, Rotary Clubs, the Lions and others in different parts of the world for the purpose of sabotaging societies and achieving Zionist interests. With their money they were able to control imperialistic countries and instigate them to colonize many countries in order to enable them to exploit their resources and spread corruption there.
>>2107622didn't /ukr/ spend months on the same thread as a cyclical?
also imagine thinking this is a
>minor and ultimately geopolitically insignificant conflict >>2108249Kill yourself
>>2108270There will be people still calling for a "cease-fire" with these beasts even as statements like this make it out.
>>2108276>Who cares.2 Million Palestinians who're getting slaughtered at mass by American weapons.
An additional 3 Million who have been living under Israel's brutal occupation for their whole life.
Or maybe the other 6 Million Palestinians who are living as refugees because It's better than living under those conditions.
<in before: that doesn't mean you have to support the axis of resistance.Name 1 valid alternative the Palestinians and those who sympathies have?
>>2108389>fascist Islamist Calling the Islamic resistance (also known as Hamas) fascist only shows how little you know about Fascism's relation to capitalism and the actual power structures at play.
And before you try to deflect, I don't support Russia's invasion of Ukraine. >>2108401If you think Hamas and Israel are
equally shit, you are a fascist and should be hanged
>>2109215>Yes, they are shittyDid you read the comment you're replying to?
You know stepping on a Lego brick is shitty, so was Belgian colonialism in the Congo.
This doesn't mean that they are equally shitty.
>one is a racist state (Israel)This is really downplaying the severity of it. It's soldiers are basically streaming a genocide live on Tick Tock.
>>2109215>opportunist oh yeah what a great opportunity palestine is
>will install sharia lawbullshit. They have more women in position of power than fatah. They want an islamic republic like iran, and its not like anything like this is on the agenda anyway
>>2109215>islamicistthis is not a word
you are the only person using it
if you care so little why are you shitting up this general for months
The occupation "army" admits: 4 soldiers were killed and an officer was seriously injured in the northern Gaza StripThe spokesman for the Israeli occupation army acknowledged, on Saturday evening, the killing of 4 soldiers and the serious injury of an officer and a soldier, during a battle in the northern Gaza Strip during the day.
Israeli media reported today, Saturday, that difficult security incidents occurred in the Gaza Strip with the Israeli "army."
She reported that 30 wounded from the occupation "army" were evacuated during the day, as a result of the battles in the Gaza Strip, including 11 in serious and critical condition.
In the details, Israeli media reported that an Israeli force was exposed to an explosive device, followed by a shooting operation in the northern Gaza Strip, where four soldiers were killed and six others were injured, including an officer and a soldier who were seriously injured.
According to the Israeli newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth, the operation targeted a leadership convoy headed by the commander of the Nahal Brigade, as the convoy was passing through a road that was supposed to be a safe road for the "army."
Yedioth Ahronoth continued, saying that the Israeli army is investigating how the militants reached this area, which is located west of Sderot, and the hypothesis of an exit through a tunnel that has not yet been discovered is being examined.
Israeli Channel 12 said that "the Beit Hanoun attack was a double ambush that included a mine explosion and a shooting attack on the Israeli force," noting that "the evacuation of the dead and wounded soldiers was complicated and under gunfire."
In turn, Hillel Biton, the Israeli correspondent for "14", indicated that "10 officers and soldiers were killed in the battles of Beit Hanoun in the northern Gaza Strip during the past week."
Days ago, the Israeli occupation "army" acknowledged that the announced number of Israeli soldiers killed had risen to 828, since October 7, 2023.
This comes as the Palestinian resistance in the Gaza Strip continues to confront the Israeli occupation forces that have penetrated the Strip, in precise military operations, inflicting losses in the lives of its soldiers and vehicles.
Yemeni forces: We clashed with an American aircraft carrier for 9 hours… and forced it to retreat
During the past 24 hours, the Yemeni Armed Forces' missile force and drone air force carried out a joint military operation targeting the US aircraft carrier USS Harry Truman and a number of its warships in the northern Red Sea region, with a number of cruise missiles and drones.
According to a statement announced by the spokesman for the armed forces, Brigadier General Yahya Saree, the engagement with the carrier and its units lasted for 9 hours, adding that this targeting of the carrier is the fifth since its arrival in the Red Sea.
Saree confirmed that the operation, which comes as a victory for the injustice of the Palestinian people and their mujahideen, and in response to the massacres in Gaza, and after the Israeli-American-British aggression on Yemen, has "successfully achieved its goals, and forced the aircraft carrier to leave the theater of operations and flee to the far north of the Red Sea."
He also stressed the "high readiness of the armed forces to confront any American or Israeli escalation against Yemen," reiterating the armed forces' confirmation that they "continue to perform their duties towards the oppressed Palestinian people, and that their operations will not stop until the aggression stops and the siege on the Gaza Strip is lifted."
Yesterday, Friday, the Yemeni Armed Forces announced that they had carried out several military operations within 48 hours , the most prominent of which was targeting the American aircraft carrier "USS Harry Truman" and a number of its warships in the northern Red Sea.
During the million-man marches, the spokesman for the armed forces announced that the operation was carried out by the missile force and the air force, and succeeded in "thwarting a new air attack against our country, launched from that carrier, which was forced, along with its warships, to leave the northern Red Sea."
Saree also announced that the armed forces carried out an operation on Thursday in which they struck a number of targets belonging to the Israeli occupation in the occupied Jaffa (Tel Aviv) area, with 3 drones, and were able to reach their targets successfully.
This comes as Yemen continues to support Gaza and respond to the repeated Israeli-American-British attacks on the country, the latest of which was yesterday, when Israel, the United States and Britain launched a large-scale aggression on Yemen , according to what an Israeli official confirmed.
The leader of the Yemeni Ansar Allah movement, Sayyed Abdul-Malik al-Houthi, commented on the attacks on Yemen, saying that Yemen will not retreat from its principled position , in terms of faith, humanity and morality, and will not even affect the level of this position, noting that โwe are heading in our position to the highest level, and we are striving for what is greater.โ
>>2109661>>2110594>>2109111<multiple days laterCLEAN IT UP FAGGOT JANNIES
DO YOUR JOB OR LEAVE FOR BETTER JANNIES
Scenes from the clashes that Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades - Vanguards of Tahrir - Nablus - Al Shaheen Groups fought while confronting the Zionist enemy forcesโ storming of the city of Nablus at dawn on January 5, 2025:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/gn140ot1.mp4Scenes from the clashes Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades - Youth of Revenge and Liberation - Tulkarm fought while confronting the Zionist enemy forcesโ incursion into Tulkarm camp. Jan.12.25:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/nax2upfu.mp4Al-Aqsa Brigades show scenes of the bombing of a command and control headquarters of the Zionist enemy in the โNetzarimโ axis with โ107โ missiles and mortar shells:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/pabg5sy2.mp4Al-Aqsa Brigades show scenes of detonating a military vehicle with an explosive device, and targeting enemy soldiers with bullets in the town of Tammoun, south of the city of Tubas:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/0ld2baal.mp4Al-Aqsa Brigades shows scenes of the bombing of the Zionist enemy forces stationed in the โNetzarimโ axis with โ107โ missiles:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/c04hniei.mp4The Mujahideen Brigades shoot down an enemy drone of type Air S2 carrying out intelligence and attack missions northeast of Bureij in the central Gaza Strip:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/yqlbsowo.mp4The Mujahideen Brigades target a command and control headquarters belonging to the Zionist enemy in the Jabalia Services Club with mortar shells:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/14aqivg5.mp4Al-Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades - Al-Tawhid Brigade targeting concentrations of soldiers and vehicles around the Al-Salehin Mosque, east of Jabalia Camp, with mortar fire:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/oixepcb.mp4Scenes from the Al-Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades - Martyr Raafat Abu Hilal Groups, in conjunction with the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, bombing the enemyโs concentrations in the โNetzarimโ military axis with a โ107โ missile:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/in1frzqb.mp4Scenes from the joint shelling by the Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades and the Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades of the Zionist enemy's command and control headquarters in Juhr al-Dik with regular 60mm mortar shells:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/szxjkduo.mp4Scenes from the targeting of the Martyr Abu Ali Mustafa Brigades, in conjunction with the Nasser Salah al-Din Brigades, a command and control site of the Zionist enemy in the โNetzarimโ axis with two 107 mm missiles:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/7xmjiixr.mp4Saraya Al-Quds shows scenes of its mujahideen bombing, in conjunction with the Al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, the Zionist enemyโs gatherings in the โNetzarimโ axis and the โMalikaโ military site with (107) missiles and mortar shells:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/tab0iimf.mp4Saraya Al-Quds shows scenes of the bombing of a Zionist military vehicle with a "Thaqib" explosive device near the Civil Administration, east of Jabalia Camp:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/cpdm3v4z.mp4Saraya Al-Quds shows scenes of its mujahideen raiding a house inside which a Zionist special force was holed up in the Jabalia camp, and targeting a Zionist (Merkavah) vehicle penetrating the center of the Beit Lahia project:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/1294ut4.mp4Al-Qassam Brigades fighters targeting enemy vehicles east of the Al-Saftawi Junction, west of the Jabalia camp:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/edo55s7.mp4Scenes from the Al-Qassam Brigades seizing a number of enemy drones east of the city of Rafah:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/y6mxl80.mp4Al-Qassam Brigades fighters clash with enemy forces penetrating Jabalia, north of the Gaza Strip, and seize a number of drones:
https://pomf2.lain.la/f/err5t104.mp4>>2111158this
jihadoids who think they are anything but western lackeys are embarassing
>>2111814For a long time i was trying to post news from the Gazan side of things here but stopped because the jannies set a upper char-limit for posts making it harder to do and refused to remove it when asked time and time again.
I would be happy to post news again here but i'm also refusing to until jannies actively start moderating, because why should i put effort in when the rest of the thread is just going to be bait and isg trash.
>>2112455hamas will be destroyed any day now right guys?
>>2112469the palestinian removal and genocide was inevitable. the fact that Al Aqsa Flood halted israeli normalization with the Arab world planned just a few months after Oct 7 alone was a huge success. on top of that, israelis economic situation has deteriorated, their temporary ceasefire with Hezbollah will run out soon and settlers still have not returned to the north. one hundred hostages remain in Gaza. international reputation tarnished, while several european countries officially recognized a palestinian state last year, they are closer than ever to achieving one.
>>2112473yes its true. remains to be seen.
>>2112534lol israel voluntarily gave up land in a temporary ceasefire they had shed blood for. does that sound like the israel you know? they obviously got fisted.
>>2112596>hezbollah got beatis there any indication of this from a non-israeli source? had the ceasefire been permanent I would agree with you.
>>2112601>>2112607obviously "beat" is a relative term but israel advanced well across the border while bombing throughout the country, and the killing of nasrallah and the pager bombings were major kneecaps to hezbollahs organizational integrity. as already said the fall of syria is a major blow to them as well. im not dooming or saying that hezbollah got completely rolled over or that theyre a fundamentally ineffective force, but compared to their previous wars with israel this was a much more ambiguous defense of their territory, ESPECIALLY because israel is already in a more vulnerable position domestically and geopolitically than in those previous wars. yes, they still get the blank check for whatever they want from the US, but the fact is that israel was already focused on genociding gaza and repressing the west bank, and facing domestic unrest and factionalism. when israel invaded lebanon it seemed like an absurd decision to add more fronts with an enemy that has bloodied them before under more favorable circumstances. i was optimistic hezbollah would be able to create a quagmire for at least a few months, and that it would require a significant diversion of resources from gaza. that didnt happen.
my claim is only that, looking objectively at the goals of israel and hezbollah prior to their open engagement in lebanon, israel accomplished their goals and hezbollah did not. hezbollah was initially bombing israel in response to the gaza genocide, causing enough problems and presenting themselves as a credible enough threat that israel needed to divert resources to the north, deal with internally displaced population from the region, and maintain preparedness for whatever contingencies could come out of the standoff with hezbollah. on a broader strategic level, it was embarassing for them and harmed their domestic and international credibility to have a non-state actor disrupt their domestic integrity and challenge their genocide from right across their border.
as it happened, israel invaded and captured territory, and caused the evacuation of much of southern lebanese population. yes israel suffered significant casualties and material loss, but in less than 2 months a formal ceasefire was established that israel has been violating with impunity, and the invasion did not disrupt their genocide in gaza or repression of the west bank to any significant extent that we are currently aware of. hezbollah also suffered casualties, and most notable is the amount of lebanese civilians killed or made into internal refugees. hezbollahs position in lebanese society is very contested politically, and their legitimacy comes from their capability to defend lebanese people. when israel is able to advance like that and bomb far into lebanon killing people and destroying their homes, its bad for hezbollah. its also very bad for hezbollah that their attempt to disrupt and draw off israel has so far amounted to a lopsided ceasefire that israel is (predictably) violating with ease. add to that the fall of assad and supply lines to iran, its a bad situation.
im NOT saying "its over for hezbollah!!", im not saying its a totally humiliating defeat or that hezbollah is incompetent or unsalvageable. im saying that, taking the arrangement of forces and their goals prior to october israeli invasion of lebanon, israel can reasonably claim a conditional victory and hezbollah was in a real sense "beat" even if its not an essentially unsalvageable situation.
In ultimatum to PM, Smotrich comes out against โdangerousโ hostage deal
>Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich comes out against the ceasefire and hostage release deal announced this evening, declaring it a โbad and dangerous deal for the national security of the State of Israel.โ
>โAlong with the great joy and excitement of the return of each and every kidnapped person, the deal reverses many of the achievements of the warโ bought at the cost of Israeli blood, he declares.
>โWe will not be silent. The voices of our brothersโ blood cry out to us,โ Smotrich, who heads the far-right Religious Zionism party, continues, laying out an ultimatum for Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
>โA clear condition for us to remain in the government is the absolute certainty of returning to the warโ at โfull scaleโ until โcomplete victory,โ meaning the โdestruction of the Hamas terrorist organization and the return of all the hostages to their homes,โ he says.
>โOver the past two days, the prime minister and I have been conducting hectic talks on the matter. He knows what the detailed demands of Religious Zionism are and the ball is in his hands.โhttps://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/in-ultimatum-to-pm-smotrich-comes-out-against-dangerous-hostage-deal/>>2113724"Sorry but the genocide will stop"
-JDPON Don
Israel got FUCKED
>A leaked document with some of the purported terms of the ceasefire between Israel and Hamas has been published by Palestinian media.
>According to the document, Israeli forces will withdraw from the densely populated areas in the Gaza Strip, including the Netzarim Corridor, and deploy to a 700-meter-long perimeter on the Gaza border. There will be an exception of five positions where the IDF will be allowed to deploy troops by an additional 400 meters inside Gaza, meaning up to just over a kilometer.
>Regarding the exchange of hostages for Palestinian prisoners, the document details that the nine sick and wounded hostages from the list of 33 in the first stage will be released in exchange for 110 Palestinian prisoners who are serving life sentences.
>Israel will also release 1,000 Palestinian prisoners detained in the Gaza Strip since October 8, 2023, who were not involved in the events of the October 7 onslaught, the document says.
>For the elderly male hostages from the list of 33, the document says they will be released in exchange for three Palestinian prisoners with life sentences and another 27 prisoners without life sentences.
>Hostages Avera Mengistu and Hisham al-Sayed, who have been held in Gaza since 2014, will be released in exchange for 30 Palestinian prisoners in addition to 47 Palestinians released in the 2011 Gilad Shalit prisoner sway deal and re-arrested, according to the document.
>Some of the Palestinian prisoners will be exiled abroad and some will be released to Gaza, according to a list agreed upon between the sides, it says.
>Regarding the Philadelphi Corridor, the Gaza-Egypt border, the document says Israeli troops will gradually withdraw during the first stage according to maps agreed upon between the sides.
>After the release of the last of the 33 hostages on day 42 of the ceasefire โ the end of the first stage โ IDF troops will need to begin to complete their withdrawal from the Philadelphi Corridor, at the latest on day 50 โ during the second stage.
>Regarding the Rafah Border Crossing with Egypt, the document says that the terminal will be open for civilians and wounded to leave Gaza for abroad after the release of all the female hostages in the first phase.
>Israeli troops will redeploy around the crossing by maps agreed upon between the sides.
>A total of 50 Hamas operatives will be allowed to leave Gaza via the crossing each day, but each will be required to obtain approval from both Israel and Egypt.
>Regarding the return of displaced Palestinians to northern Gaza, the document says that on the seventh day of the deal, Gazans will be allowed to return on foot to north Gaza while unarmed, but without any inspection, via the coastal road.
>On day 22, displaced unarmed Palestinians will be allowed to return to north Gaza via the Salah a-Din road, also without inspection.
>Also on day seven of the ceasefire, vehicles will be allowed to return to north Gaza, but they will be required to undergo an inspection by a private company which will be determined by the mediators and Israel.
<The document does not include all the terms of the ceasefire.https://www.timesofisrael.com/liveblog_entry/leak-of-purported-ceasefire-terms-show-2-hostages-held-for-past-decade-released-in-first-phase-gradual-idf-withdrawal-from-key-routes/>>2113840it definitely wasnt worth it in the short term
in the long term, maybe, it really exposed western hypocrisy and israel genocidal intent, disrupted normalization, and damaged israel invulnerability reputation
the loss of syria is similarly a big blow short term, but long term it really depends on what happens next there
theres also the fact you cant expect such a situation to slowly rot eternally, some explosion of violence will always happen eventually due to their conditions
>>2112426Thatโs why Biden should get more credit to this deal than Trump.
Trump just farted
>>2114057biden did threaten to hold back shipments of some weapons twice iirc
i'm guessing isreal is letting it happen because they can get some goodwill from both dems and republicans since it's technically happening under biden and trump gets to claim he's the reason it happened and fulfill his promise of peace in the world.
it probably helps that israel has seen that it can violate the ceasefire in lebanon without any consequences and it's perhaps hoping it can do the same in gaza if it wants to. trump certainly isn't gonna punish them
>>2114122They do not belong to the halls of power and donโt care about the politics of the matter. Just want to wipe out Gaza
>>2114123Are they supposed to live among the rubble? Already more than 200 000 Gazans left.
>rootless terrorism and adventurism inviting in untold amount of misery and destruction to the proletariat is GOOD if they're Muslim actually. Marx said soMods either read some history and theory, or just go to r/socialism. This is dumb even for you.
Little history lesson for you.
>Hamas has its origins in the Muslim BrotherhoodPic related
>The Muslim Brotherhood is anti-socialistPic related. No, liberal, Shariah law isn't socialist. Fucking idiot. Source here:
https://www.nybooks.com/online/2011/02/05/washingtons-secret-history-muslim-brotherhood/>Hamas promoted by Israel to counteract the secular factions in the PLO and PAPic related. Also read this if you have access
https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.1525/jps.2012.xli.3.54>Hamas hasn't had an election since 2006, the second they won a majorityDon't even need a pic, this is common knowledge if you're not a retard.
>Hamas (unelected) was solely responsible for the attack and took hostages which gave Israel just-cause for invadingNote: This doesn't justify their war crimes but you are braindead if you don't think that those actions don't invite an invasion.
So the end result is that an anti-socialist, ultra-religious organization of unelected people who were manipulated into power to replace the growing secular, progressive organizations and seek to establish Shariah law which will create a clerical/bourgeois class in charge (warned about in the types of reactionary socialism in the Communist Manifesto), did terrorism (it is terrorism) and then took hostages which they hid in civilian locations, using normal people as a shield. You can ban me 100 times, but that is what happened. Some of you like to say that the PLO has socialist wings in it, which it does, but not Hamas which committed the attack. They are now mobilized to do defense (meat shield) for Hamas useless attack. This is a bad thing.
The bleeding hearts are quick to accuse me of Zionism, when I have never once defended Israel's intentional bombings of hospitals and other war crimes. Furthermore, I don't believe in zionism because I don't believe in blood-and-soil, because I'm a fucking socialist and that is socialism 101. I think the proletariat shouldn't be wiped out with bombs and starvation, which terrorism explicitly brings to them and this core to Marxist and Leninist theory.
This is not against a single rule and the moderator. The moderator is actually breaking rule 7 & 11 but they're in the "clique," I get it.
>>2114176Youโre absolutely correct. No lies detected in your post. Hamas were never revolutionary, Oct 7th won Palestine nothing but 200,000 dead (half of those dead being children), and the Palestinian cause has no way of being achieved anymore.
The ceasefire is the bare minimum and only a retard would act like itโs anything other than that.
>>2114251Out of curiosity, what does a "victory" in Palestine look like to you?
Is it something as simple as: "the Palestinian people get to live without being subjugated to apartheid and ethnic cleansing"?
Or is it: "Palestine fully decolonized with all the Jews in between the river and the sea expelled"?
Because my biggest issue with the pro-Palestine movement (that I've worked with for over 15 years now) is that no one can concisely answer this question. They always use buzzphrases like: "Palestinians can't exist so as long as there is a single Jewish settler living in historic Palestine". As if the Palestinians are strong enough to forcefully remove 7.5 million Israelis. People are treating this ceasefire (which is only supposed to last for six weeks FYI, it's not permanent) as if it's final proof that a stateless guerrilla group like Hamas can successfully take down a nuclear superpower. Never mind the fact that the "mission accomplished" that's being celebrated here is a temporary pause to genocide rather than Israel's outright destruction; Hamas achieved its short-term goals but not its long-term ones. Nothing about this proves Hamas or its allies can destroy Israel as a whole, just win a few concessions from Bibi.
>>2114377>"Hamas good, Israel bad" is an oversimplistic view. Hamas exists BECAUSE of Israeli backing in the beginning. They aren't the saviours of the Palestinian people like you want them to be.I don't care if Hamas aren't the Idealized saviors Libs want them to be. Armed resistance movements (like the PLO, Islamic Jihad, Hamas, etc.) are by and large supported by the Palestinian population additionally they are a result of the brutality of the Israeli state. I mean has any alternative ever given the Palestinians anything other than extermination and oppression?
To condemn those groups is similar to blaming a slave for killing his master; Is similar for blaming a woman for pepper-spraying their rapist; Is similar to blaming workers for unionizing. It's no different than to condone the oppression of the Palestinians.
>>2114379I don't care, Islam can just be molded into whatever you want it to be.
Is it idealist, yes, but you can't really say much more about it than that.
>>2114394I'm sceptical the Syrian, or an Egyptian, "buffer zone" is going to be to Israels benefit. I think it unlikely these shattered states will not devolve into a quasi-failed state like Lebanon where Islamist militias hold informal power.
Trading "hostile" but cowed states for more Islamist militias doesn't seem like a winning move in the long run.
>>2114459Israel conceded on their desire to kill everyone in Gaza.
The Palestinians conceded their basic human dignity and accepted the Zionist narrative that they are subhumans who deserved to be exterminated. (This is also called de-radicalization by Zionists).
Now that both sides accept the status quo, the liberal Zionists finally will get the piece they wanted.
>>2114455doesnt the ceasefire come in on Sunday?
I remember reading that during 2014, the IDF timed it to the point where artillery were launching barrages into Gaza and stopped on the literal second the ceasefire came in.
>>2114281>Out of curiosity, what does a "victory" in Palestine look like to you?<Palestine fully decolonized with all the Jews in between the river and the sea expelledI feel like that would've been lovely. But my thoughts tell me that is largely out of the realm of possibility without the sacrifice of several million people to nuclear fire. Way back when the recent issue started in Oct 2024, I thought that the Israelis would never resort to nukes as they would ultimately be killing themselves primarily regardless of who they were firing at. Then as the Israelis revealed themselves to be incredibly unhinged (and the Arabs as utterly passive at best, and supportive of Israel at worst), I changed my mind and decided that the madmen would in fact nuke everyone and themselves.
So I don't see "victory" at all, I think the Palestinians are mostly (entirely) screwed, even if the ceasefire holds, this is only putting off the recent round. In another 10 years, once all the children are grown up and have experienced apartheid for themselves, they will grow angry again, and the same sequence of events will play out. The only best case I can come up with is one-state named Palestine with Gaza and the West Bank. The Israelis will naturally leave when they realize that equality after being on top for so long is oppression. But how to get there? There is no way, all the "reasonable" Israelis have likely already left, the ones remaining probably have no issues using nuclear weapons.
>>2114251>Suddenly some of you have turned into neoliberals with all the "Actually, that was a bad idea because it didn't turn out the way we wanted" crap?Neoliberalism is when you examine the outcome of a conflict to determine whether it was a strategic victory or defeat.
>You've all forgotten how this issue came about in the first place? An actual apartheid state conducting ethnic cleansing? Nobody has forgotten that, but there's no benefit to just lashing out for the sake of it. It was definitely cathartic to watch the Zio fascists humbled for once, but I don't see how the Palestinian cause has benefitted from this conflict in the grand scheme of things.
>>2114476>Neoliberalism is when you examine the outcome of a conflict to determine whether it was a strategic victory or defeat.I'm talking about the attitude, not the ideology. All of a sudden, people like you (and the other flairs) are concerned about results? After endless merry-go-round-the-mulberry-bushes about the practicality of interventions, spreading socialism, revisionism, a thousand and one arguments about (not) real socialism etc etc etc
SUDDENLY, the end results matter? I thought we were all supposed to commit to actions for the sake of socialism, liberation, anti-bougie struggle so on and so forth? Not because the end result turned out to be less than desirable.
>Nobody has forgotten that, but there's no benefit to just lashing out for the sake of it.But you did in fact forget that lashing out was basically all that they could do and that functionally the alternative was a slow, painful cleansing?
>but I don't see how the Palestinian cause has benefitted from this conflict in the grand scheme of things.So 2 things:
1. These sorts of lines always make me wonder how much IRL experience you all have. Like have you personally ever been pushed to snapping in any given situation
2. Haha, grand scheme of things they say, haha. In the grand scheme of things, the Palestinians were mostly irrelevant and this entire issue is a complete sideshow to the burgeoning Cold War between Uncle Sam and China upon which the rest of the world has been side-eyeing. What they have done is amazing to me, because the Palestinians have absorbed an outsized amount of attention for what they are and forced more imperial overstretch. In a time when everyone is occupied with all sorts of shit, Palestine forced the world to pay attention and actually gave the empire a bloody nose. The Houthis even fucked around in the Red Sea, with the US Navy finding out the hard way.
Is it tragic? Yes, but no more so than the millions of other dead and displaced victims of Uncle Sam's warmachine, if you want to focus on the "big picture" then zoom out a bit more, the empire suffered another cut, the reactionaries of the periphery proved once more that it was more revolutionary than the revolutionaries of the core.
>>2114476as far as im concerned, the palestinians have been living on borrowed time since 1948. their extinction increasingly inevitable each passing year. the fact that room existed to plan and execute any resistance at all was a humongous success. Al Aqsa demonstrated the Palestinians tenacity and fervor that proved their inevitable genocide wouldn't happen without a fight.
Let's look at the material achievements of Al Aqsa Flood.
>1000+ dead Israeli settlers>250+ settlers taken hostage returned in exchange for palestinian prisoners>Scuttled Israeli normalization with the Arab world>Exposed the incompetence of Shin Bet and other Israeli intelligence agencies>established precedent for the ICC prosecution of a Western leader, a first since bush and cheney>Several countries have recognized a Palestinian state for the first time post oct 7, including Barbados, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, The Bahamas, Ireland, Norway, Spain, Slovenia and Armenia.>Likud party stymied. Most likely prison for Bibi>Israel internationally isolated>Compromised Israel's economic security and market competitivenessNo, Al Aqsa was never going to mean the complete liberation of Palestine in the same way Israel's response to it was never going to mean the complete destruction of Palestine. In this way, Hamas won the second it crossed the border on Oct 7. Everything listed above is gravy. Thanks to Al Aqsa, the Palestinians are closer than ever in history to a state of their own, and thanks to the ceasefire that left Hamas in power, they have the time, resources and support to plan Al Aqsa 2.
>>2114554>SUDDENLY, the end results matter? I thought we were all supposed to commit to actions for the sake of socialism, liberation, anti-bougie struggle so on and so forth?Idk what you're talking about since I've always made results oriented arguments, and I was in favour of the Al-Aqsa operation before because I thought it would be more successful than it was.
>But you did in fact forget that lashing out was basically all that they could do and that functionally the alternative was a slow, painful cleansing?That hasn't changed though. Israel went on a 15 month long temper tantrum and murdered tens of thousands of people, and are now in a stronger position than before. So all that has been accomplished here is piles of corpses plus the serious weakening of the Axis. The Palestinians briefly interrupted their slow genocide with a fast one, and now the slow one will resume with even fewer obstacles.
>In the grand scheme of things, the Palestinians were mostly irrelevant and this entire issue is a complete sideshow to the burgeoning Cold War between Uncle Sam and China Yes but I meant the grand scheme of things in relation to Palestine. However even on a global scale we've essentially seen a major engagement of this Cold War play out in the Middle East between the US and Iran, and the US has won quite decisively.
>>2114589hundreds of thousands of palestinians dead
thousands of palestinians imprisoned
none of the arab countries that recognized israel dropped recognition and mbs or trump will try again in a few years for saudi arabia
no one will arrest netanyahu or gallant
doesn't really have any practical effect on the ground since israel doesn't give a fuck about the un or any international body
likd and probably bibi will continue. if they don't they will simply be replaced by another right wing zionist party which is all that's left in israel
LITERALLY didn't happen
israel will recoup all economic losses in a year
>>2114465>doesnt the ceasefire come in on Sunday? Yes. The image was basically implying Israel are trying to attach extra bits that hamas wont accept. It's the same thing they've done previously.
OP just misunderstood because either dogshit reading comprehension or baiting.
Israeli finance minister threatens to resign over Gaza deal
>Israelโs far-right Finance Minister Bezalel Smotrich has condemned the Gaza ceasefire deal, threatening to resign and pull his Religious Zionism Party out of the ruling coalition. The move would likely bring down Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahuโs government, according to local media.
<โA clear condition for our remaining in the government is absolute certainty of returning to war with great force,โ he added, urging the โdestruction of the Hamas terrorist organization and the return of all the hostages to their homes.โhttps://www.rt.com/news/611010-israel-coalition-ceasefire-deal-risks/wow Hamas really lost big time guys. amirite
>>2115349>Outside the west Anon you haven't been paying attention. it's seen that way inside much of the west.
>>2115356>It would be a boon for mankind if you were to be beheaded.It would be a boon to the thread if you didn't need to bite every piece of shitty bait.
>>2115621<Israel's campaign has four stated goals:>to destroy Hamaslol
>to free the hostageslol
>to ensure Gaza no longer poses a threat to Israellol
>and to return displaced residents of Northern Israellol?
>According to the compensation plan, northern residents who return to their homes on March 7 will receive grants for a maximum NIS 25,360 per adult and NIS 12,680 per child for up to seven kids.>yo, here's $7k to returnWhat? What's the status of Hezbollah? Still around?
>>2115763Again, when it comes to Gaza specifically I'll concede that Israel failed in their goals. However when the broader regional balance of power is considered it has clearly shifted in Israel's favour as a result of this conflict. If you insist on calling this a victory for the Palestinians then it's undoubtedly a pyrrhic one.
>What's the status of Hezbollah? Still around?Of course they're still around, but now without any of their experienced and tested leadership or a secure supply line to Iran.
>>2115772Palestinians win just by staying alive.
Also, how are you measuring the "power" to calculate the balance? After watching all those Israeli vehicles blown up, I am not walking away from this impressed with Israeli power.
>>2115774>Palestinians win just by staying alive. I'd say they'd win by accomplishing their goal of toppling the apartheid regime.
>Also, how are you measuring the "power" to calculate the balance?On an assessment of which actors are able to cause the most damage to one another. The ability of the Axis of Resistance to strike at Israel has been significantly reduced and are unlikely to be recovered, whereas Israel's capabilities to hit the Axis have remained mostly intact, and what has been lost will be replenished in short order.
>I am not walking away from this impressed with Israeli powerThere's more to this than direct military power. Israel's victories here were mainly secured with espionage and proxy actions. Wiping out all of Hezbollah's leadership and then cutting their supply route with a successful proxy war in Syria point to their formidable capabilities in these areas.
>>2115792>blank chequeWhat's the status on the American money printer turning those bills into shells, btw?
>only lost a couple thousand troops at mostThen why bother forcing Haredim recruitment? Why complain about troop shortages, and no demobilization in sight?
>>2115616doomers on both sides always posting this type of exagerated takes
>>2115621only time will tell who ends up getting the strategic win we don't know how much hezbollah will take to recouperate and open new logistical lines just like we don't know how will israel rebuild their economy or if they will be able to stop and revert their isolation
>>2115801>What's the status on the American money printer turning those bills into shells, btw?Its more than sufficient for Israel's needs. This isn't Ukraine where they were fighting a conventional military with a larger military industrial complex behind it. The aid they get from the US was clearly more than enough to meet their needs.
>Why complain about troop shortages, and no demobilization in sight?I'm sure they have fewer troops than they would like, especially since mobilizing conscripts has economic fallout. However the loss of a few thousand troops isn't going to cripple Israel's ability to fight in the long term. Besides, casualties among their enemies are undoubtedly much higher, and the impact of that on their capabilities should be considered.
>>2116095Iran is too much of a juicy target, US hawks don't care about Palestine when they can strike at the heart of most current anti-US insurgencies in the Middle East + weaking Russia and China.
And on the "domestic front", nobody cares in the west cares if Islamic Iran is attacked, Euros and US leftists only supports tiny countries getting attacked by bigger ones.
>>2116565I really don't see the US backing off from Taiwan anytime soon.
That's their semiconductor industry.
>>2116578I could see the US taking losses on Ukraine to accept going harder on Iran, but no way Taiwan. The US can afford to fuck up Ukraine because at the end of the day, they admit it themselves, it was a way to weaken and assault Russia, but backing off any on Taiwan is just accepting one of the most important resources of the 21st century is being given over to their rising rival.
Further the DC/Pentagon/Israel club isn't really making great decisions lately. A lot of the US' problems lately are indeed ones of mostly its own making.
>>2116527aren't most of this protest antiwar though?
>>2116565the existence of the irgc prevents any color revolution or coup attempt to be succesful at most you could get a syria type situation
there are some big names in the list of prisoners being released
>Among those to be released is Zakaria Zubeidi, a former commander of Fatah's Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades in Jenin who was on Israelโs most-wanted list for several years, having taken responsibility for a 2002 attack that killed six people. Zubeidi was one of six prisoners who escaped in the 2021 high-security Gilboa Prison break.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zakaria_Zubeidi
>Other names include Ahmed Barghouti, a close aide to and relative of Marwan Barghouti, who is serving 13 life sentences. Arrested alongside Marwan in Ramallah in 2002, Ahmed was responsible for supplying weapons to the al-Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, where he served as their operational commander.
>Wael Qassem and Wisam Abbasi, members of the Hamas โSilwan Cell,โ will also be released. They were responsible for attacks that caused dozens of casualties, including bombings at Cafรฉ Moment in Jerusalem, the Sheffield Club in Rishon Lezion, and the Frank Sinatra cafeteria at Hebrew University in the early 2000s.Netanyahuโs 'temporary ceasefire' strategy
>"Describe it as a framework, not a deal." This directive, sent to Israeli ministers by the cabinet secretary ahead of media interviews, encapsulates Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's current strategy.
<With the agreement to release 33 hostages in exchange for over 1,000 Palestinian prisoners, coupled with a ceasefire in Gaza and the withdrawal of IDF troops from certain areas, Netanyahu is striving to frame this development not as the conclusion of the war but as a strategic pause. In his Saturday night statement, he emphasized, "This is a temporary ceasefire."
>Netanyahu sought to reassure his cabinet, reportedly stating during Fridayโs government meeting, "I insisted that we could return to war with the backing or lack of opposition from the US president." He added, "Trump has given his support to this approach, and if they tell us 'no,' we will do it anyway."https://www.jpost.com/israel-news/article-838143>>2116625>this is what zionist are saying thougheverIt's part butthurt for having their leash yanked a bit, for the USA coronation. And part self victimization which is fundamental for Zionism. Whatever Zionists do, whatever the outcome is, they are the victim and justified so. Always.
Nothing will come of it but the further normalization of the second Nakba and further empowerment of Israelis as colonial enforcers in the region. If this is really something they implement long term, the terms are nonsense. Like, go read on the agreement where it gets most of it.
It's basically an unconditional surrender of Palestinian resistance in exchange for maybe, if they feel like it, ceasing the military industrial means of extermination and going back to good old settler colonialism. With no bad terms imposed on Israel nor anyone but their sponsors to judge them.
And as I said, this is not it. The real agreement, the real diplomacy is whatever the terms end up negotiated between the rest of the compradors and NATO/Israel.
>>2116677>second Nakbadidn't happened
>unconditional surrender of Palestinian resistancenah because many factions exist and will get reinforced by the freed prisioners
>>2116593Me? Well, if I was Israeli, I would actually finish the genocide I want and started.
>Israel is an ethno-religious fascist state and wants Lebensraum>Israel wants to genocide Palestinians, and as long as any of them live, it's only a matter of time they attack Israel>Israel does not give a fuck about foreign relations and screams "anti-semite" at everyone who has a problem with their behaviour, including the UN and ICC>Israel has suffered enormous economic damage from mobilization, Houthi blockade, Hezbollah bombing, and denied exploitation of Palestinian workers>US and Israel have the explosives required to clap Palestinians out of all of Gaza>Israeli losses are insignificant, and Haredim conscription exemption is a nothingburger>Israel has achieved a victory with this war, and its position has been strengthenedThis series of statements is incongruent, some of them
have to be false. I hope I don't need to explain my position. But (you) need to fix your fucking doublethink right fucking now, in the open. Don't even pretend there's ""nuance"" here. Tired of this shit.
>>2116624>the existence of the irgc prevents any color revolutionIn theory, and practically speaking they of course do seem pretty ideologically motivated. Though of course they had similar organizations in socialist countries like the Stasi in the GDR and it didn't stop those governments from folding. Even still, a Syria type situation would be more than sufficient to serve the needs of the US.
>>2116629>renewed international attentionSure, but it won't amount to much as long as the US shields them from any diplomatic consequences.
>wich will delay normalisation Yeah but it's only delaying the inevitable at this point.
>they have made the internal israeli polarisation more severeProbably the biggest win for sure. However I don't think any of this is enough to outweigh the loss of Syria and Hezbollah taking the beating they have. Not to mention a return to the status quo after all the death and destruction.
>>2116601>>Guise Israel lost! The politicos and intelligence fags are literally saying that it's a shit deal and crying about it.
fuck off you disingenous wrecker.
>>2116607you too. 100%.
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