The thing that makes Japanese nation unique is that they were the only ones in our material reality to develop into a capitalist society independently* from Europe?
*Of course, Meiji restoration was prompted by USAmericans and actively used European capital and talent, but it's still a far cry even when comparing with a Chinese situation (where capitalism had come in the form of "century of humiliation" and Quings literally betraying their own people to the whites), let alone the rest of the world (where it was spread with a full-blown colonial conquest)
>>2114438Yeah, when Europeans developed into capitalism and began to wreck havoc on the globe the elites of the more organized backward countries saw the writing on the wall: modernize fast - as in copy the west - or be subjugated.
In the end Japan is unique because they were the only non European country ever at not getting subjugated
and modernizing at this point. They succeeded in 1) keeping the colonizers at bay, notably with the sakoku policy 2) methodically destroying their feudal order and industrializing fast throughout the Meiji era 3) becoming one of the colonizing and imperialist powers trough expansion in Asia.
All of this is mostly due to a favorable context and initial conditions: and insular geography, a relatively homogeneous nation, a relatively centralized and developed state, good literacy rate etc.
>>2114447No, capitalism idea was exported by dutch traders
So you are wrong
>>2114291>The Japanese invented fascismpretty sure that was a joint effort by ᴉuᴉlossnW and his secret bankrollers at MI5
>used it for over 100 yearswestern neocolony since 1945. Their political independence is an illusion
>>2116002I wouldn't really call the boshin war a "huge civil war". It's definitely not comparable to the American Civil War for example. The casualties were in the thousands. It was more of a power struggle. Anon said
relatively peaceful clearly implying they know about the boshin war.
>>2116167>So really the main thing is that the winning side chose to modernize quickly and the others didn't. All sides were trading with Euro powers but the losing side favored isolationalism and also tradition.It's a bit more complicated than that.
The pro-imperial sonno joi movement was made up of samurai who opposed westernization and favored isolationism, because it was the emperor Komei who called for expelling the foreigners that the shogunate let in. In a sense, they were reactionaries who wanted Japan to go back to isolation, but this time with the emperor in charge. They were just a just a bunch of disgruntled samurai who were unhappy with the shogunate (for good reasons, actually) and didn't do much outside of assassinations, terrorist attacks and failed uprising.
Instead, the daimyo who led the imperial side of the boshin war weren't completely opposed to foreigners (except when it was politically convenient for them to do so) and "sonno joi" was never really employed by them as a political stance. Both sides favored modernization, but only one side wanted to upkeep an unteneable political status quo because they didn't want to share power with others. Even the resignation of the last shogun was just a political play to avoid the civil war and keep the influence of the tokugawa clan in the management of state affairs. So it's not like the losing side favored "tradition" for the sake of it, they were just unwilling to share power with satsuma and choshu.
>>2114272>The thing that makes Japanese nation unique is that they were the only ones in our material reality to develop into a capitalist society independently* from Europe?Do not take my word for some absolute truth, but it seems to me:
>Island nation isolated from direct military conflict from land based neighbours>Politically independent from the entire world for centuries>Slow but sure introduction of firearms before end of isolation>More or less had a process of political unification through conquest over the past centuries to the point where you had a military government controlled by just a few major clans>Rudely woken up to the reality of the world in 1853>Two clans in the southeast use access to modern firearms and more experience and knowledge of modern technology, army and statescraft through their posession of Deshima (nagasaki) over the past centuries (the only connection to european powers), to back the emperor against the consolidated shogunate>Overthrow shogunate with overwhelming manpower and technology and tactics>Have defacto unified country within a few decades, with no land borders with enemies, and no nearby industrial powers>Have almost a century of free reign to rapidly modernise motivated by both fear of the outside as well as a desire to crush the remaining samurai class that still wish to increase their own power at the expense of the emperor>All european powers, having been proven unable to meaningfully impose their direct military will for the past centuries and especially now on your unified, rapidly modernising, independent state, flock to you to sell their shit, create an ally in an area contested between several european powers, similar to how China opening up as a tightly controlled state with a central government had the west flocking to it to try and make profits>Completely remake your government, motivated by destroying samurai class power. Completely remake your army, motivated by destroying samurai class power. Completely modernise your economy, motivated by destroying samurai class power.>No rivals anywhere nearby since china was too isolationist and static for too long, and engaged in a civil war while you were building up>No land invasions of russia possible>Europeans cant meaningfull impose their will on you, and there is no political fragmentation/weakness they can use like they did in India, China, Indonedia, the americas, africa, etc.If it had gone any different, if there had not been a shogunate defacto ruling the country as a medieval xenophobic unified government, then japan would have had its constituent clans be picked off one by one by the europeans, and it would have been another india colonised place. But due to their history, they had all the same advantages that the UK had:
>Island nation with a unified government>More or less starting out as self reliant>Technological advantage over all land based neighbours>State which promoted industrialisation as concious policy>No political entity able to impose their will on you due to logisticsSo they followed the same rough path, but they could adopt and copy what europe had already done. Complete with having an army primarily based in the navy being the logical way to defend their country and being able to use said navy to dominate their immediate surrounding while those they attacked had to put their focus mostly on land based armies and thus could never counterattack with all their might like japan could without leaving themselves open to land based attacks.
Consequently, this is why Japan never really could make much headway into China beyond its coast and why it only really did well with island conquest. While the UK fought spearmen with guns and cannons in the 1800s, japan had to fight the chinese, who had ww1 and other modern firearms on land in the 1830s.
>>2116275> this is nothing newWhy would a book necessarily be new?
>The foundation of Edo society was its stable social order, but changes to Japanese society over the next two centuries began to challenge the Tokugawa system. Increasing urbanization and rising consumerism saw wealth become concentrated outside of the samurai class, and their fixed stipends did not increase despite the rising cost of commodities. The increasingly burdensome cost of proper social etiquette led many samurai to become indebted to wealthy urban merchant families. The merchants, in turn, were restricted from showing their wealth for fear of violating the laws that restricted privileges to the samurai class. That created deepening resentment but also increasing interdependence between the two classes.[7]: 159
>Some Japanese scholars began to question the Confucian beliefs that provided the foundation of Edo society.[6]: 57 Additionally, numerous changes in rural areas increasingly challenged the Tokugawa system. New technology which increased productivity allowed some peasant families to produce a surplus of food, creating a disposable income that could be used to support ventures beyond farming. Some peasants also became indebted to their wealthier neighbors, and more families lost ownership of their land. This sparked resentment that sometimes erupted into violence towards landlords and the village elite.The defeat at the Battle of Shiroyama in 1877 effectively ended the samurai class
>In 1853, the beginning of the bakumatsu saw Edo society increasingly questioned by Japanese people when Western powers used their technological superiority to force concessions from the Tokugawa in the Unequal treaties. Many Japanese people, including members of the samurai, began to blame the Tokugawa for Japan's "backwardness" and subsequent humiliation. A modernization movement which advocated the abolition of feudalism and return of power to the Imperial Court eventually overthrew the Tokugawa Shogunate in the Meiji Restoration in 1868.
>The new Meiji government of the Empire of Japan soon abolished the Tokugawa class system that had characterized Edo society. The kuge and daimyo classes were merged into the kazoku aristocratic class with class privileges which formed the Meiji oligarchy. Most remaining samurai that did not become kazoku were designated as shizoku, a distinct class without class privileges that was purely a title on the government register. Commoners and the burakumin were merged into a single commoner class without restrictions or distinction for their occupation, though burakumin continued to face discrimination similar to Edo society. So yeah I was wrong to put in isolationism. But yes the winning side wanted to overcome tradition.
>>2116277The bakufu was willing to modernise as well, the issue is that they wanted to further centralise power, a very out-of-touch move given only very few daimyo were still willing to listen to them.
I'm not saying you're wrong, it's just that everyone had different ideas about how to modernise Japan. Everyone outside of the bakufu knew the shogunate was shit, but they didn't have a clear idea how to replace it, that's why they pulled a
retvrn move in the beginning and tried to restore the government of the heian period.
>>2115321>>2114784>>2114777>>2114764>>2114757>>2114755>>2114485please bring more Chinese posters to this site. Leftypol very uncivilized barbaric Western liberals. Bring civilized Chinese to Leftypol.
Thank you.
>>2116280>I'm not saying you're wrong,Yes and thank you for corrections and clarifications. I should've went back and reread some stuff before making my post and gave a more clear account.
The isolation question wasn't really a question because as you pointed out both sides were in favor of isolation, with the imperial side using the Tokugawa's failure to keep isolated as a rallying cry, even if it was only rhetoric, and they were really the side with more of a view of modernizing including doing away with the traditional caste system.
One thing not touched upon in any of the sources so far is the changing army composition and growing uselessness of the samurai. Obviously the samurai used guns, they were no dummies, but rifle regiment tactics obviously have little need for samurai which is why knights disappeared along with regimented armies as well.
>>2117129Wang Yi calling for the Greater East Asia Co-prosperity sphere but red using
literally the same wording.
>China’s top diplomat urges Japan and South Korea to align with Beijing and ‘revitalize Asia’>‘You can never become a Westerner!’ China’s top diplomat Wang Yi has urged Japan and South Korea to foster a sense of “strategic autonomy” from the West and cooperate with Beijing to “revitalize Asia,” amid rising tensions between China and the two neighboring American allies.>No matter how blonde you dye your hair, how sharp you shape your nose, you can never become a European or American, you can never become a Westerner,” Wang said. “We must know where our roots lie.”>Wang called for Japan and South Korea to work together with China to "prosper together (共栄), revitalize East Asia, revitalize Asia (興亜) and benefit the world.">In a thinly veiled swipe at the US, Wang accused “certain major powers outside the region” of “exaggerating ideological differences” to sow confrontation and division, in order to seek geopolitical gains, according to the Chinese Foreign Ministry. >>2117129Multipolarista conference in 1943
Check 8:00 and 17:30
>>2117309Pan-Asianism is not a bad thing, what's bad is last century's adherents, who are probably the most infamous murderer/rapists/looters in recent history.
The important thing with Chinese pan-Asianism is that it subverts the hard right in Japan, by reviving their rhetoric but with Left essence.
That allows China to flip Japan, and with Japan flipped, Worst Korea is trapped between China, Best Korea, and Japan, so has to either get with the program or get blockaded.
>>2117529And China took land from the Bai, as well as various other ethnic minorities as they expanded from the Yellow River.
Settler colonialism ends when you run out of free land; it's a nasty inheritance, but it's surmountable because it's doomed to transition to classical capitalism.
>>2117166Absolutely crazy take. You speak as if nations had an innate essence.
Gun yourself fash.
>>2117520Exactly, japan produced genuine pan-asianist anti-colonial fighters, even a good part of the early chinese revolutionaries were in some form mentored by japanese pan-asianists. Characterizing these people and ideologies as simply "disingenuous propaganda" is inaccurate and simplistic. However it is also true that the government was co-opted by Capital from the start, heavily distorting these ideals into the atrocities commited. By the very structure of japanese class society, genuine pan-asianism couldn't be actually upheld to the end. Both of these facts existed in contradiction.
In an almost poetic way, the "correct pan-asianism" is today somewhat upheld by the PRC
>>2117337 , while japan is an occupied nation.
>>2117529 Define settler-colony otherwise this is a meaningless discussion that boils down to saying japan is bad by vaguely pointing at israel.
The yamato attitude towards the emishi was one more or less modeled after the chinese attitude towards the "barbarians", distinct from anglo-protestant style colonialism. The yayoi have been in japan for thousands of years.
>>2117609>But pan-asianism for Japan was just an excuse to build an empireKita Ikki elaborating on this critique (1919, An Outline Plan for the Reorganization of Japan).
>Unarguably, the present situation is not just. Just like the situation in which England used India as a beast of burden for its interest is not justice, in the same manner the condition in which Australia is blockaded from the 700 million people of neighbouring Japan and Asia is also not a just one. Just as the self-interest of the Tsar in trying to annex China and colonize Korea is unjust in the present time, so the present policy of the 'Lenin' government is unjust if it is seeking to monopolize the wide and barren spaces of Siberia and ignoring the interests of other countries. Just as the class war within a nation is fought because a line of division is drawn against justice, so also in international relations, in the case of a just war it seeks to redraw an unjust line of division fairly. Britain, astride the whole world, is like a very rich man and Russia is landlord of half the northern world. Doesn't Japan, which is like a propertyless person in international society confined to these small islands, have the right to go to war to overthrow their domination In the name of justice?
<HYPOCRISY OF WESTERN SOCIALISTS
>The Western socialists have a fundamental contradiction in their thinking when they criticize Japan's war as an invasion and militarism, for they accept the war of the proletariat within a nation and Japan in international society is in the position of the proletariat. Even while 'Hughes' is of working class origins and Lenin is a person respected by fellow socialists, looking at them from the point of international conflict, they are big landlords, just as in olden times, Okura Kihachiro started as a fish seller and Kato Komei was a poor student, but from the point of the proletariat they are rich people. Within the country the proletariat is organizing itself institutionally and preparing to seek power, and if they seek to emphasize that they will change this unjust condition violently then Japan, which internationally is the proletariat, should strengthen its army and navy which are the institutions within which power is concentrated, and then start a war to change the unjust line of division and have this unconditionally accepted. If this is expansionism and militarism, then with the encouragement of the world proletariat, Japan should wear it as a crown of gold. Even under the rationalization of democratic socialism, Japan can demand Australia and eastern Siberia. Even with abundant harvests, after several years there won't be enough land to provide food. Even with greater distribution within the country, without international distribution, Japan will not resolve problems in an eternity. However, you should be careful of the fact that in German socialism there is no understanding of this international division, as it is ruled by the medieval institution of the Kaiser's government, which is why it received as unjust the rational claims for the redistribution of English possessions, and because of this these medieval institutions will collapse.
>Therefore, if the Japan of military and financial cliques raises these demands it would follow the footsteps of Germany, a fact that is clear as light. All explanations support the argument that a reformed and rational state: a revolutionary empire must fight for international justice. >>2117658I'm not here to do debate bro crap, I'm providing exposition for discussion. This is an example of how japanese pan-asianist socialists responded to your critique. This shows a self-awareness of the fact that they are in a sense carving their own empire and how they justify it within their framework. The author was executed by the government for their theories if you didn't know.
>>2117659He did unironically pull the BAIZUO card in 1919
>>2117665Alright, alright, sorry if I sounded like an ass, but you never know on leftypol.
In a sense, it reminded me of a similar line of thought in pre-fascist Italy: Italy was poor and full of jobless people who were forced to emigrate. The conquest of Libya was supposed to solve this problem. It didn't go as planned.
>>2117677sorry too
Like the other anon, said this read like proto-multipolarist theory to me.
It reflects japan's status as a small-er country with not many natural resources . If you accept the premise of imperialism being the dominant global system; but don't arrive at the proletarian internationalism line; it is possible for you to arrive at the position elaborated here, where nations that are lower on the scale have a "right" to strike those above. He has basically reengineered class society but on the "international arena". Note that it wasn't clear in the line I provided but he doesn't advocate for attacking other "lower" nations like china (he didn't live to see the second sino-japanese war). Rather for japan to lead the "lower nations" in revolution.
> BRITISH IMPERIALISM AIMS AT CHINA>Note 3: China will, as a result of the First World War, change rapidly, just as India will seek to change…. There is no need to explain that England seeks to make China into an economic quasi-dependency…. It is unarguable that Britain, with India as a base, and through Afghanistan and Persia will invade central Asia, and it is clear that in connection with Hong Kong as a base for the far-eastern sea they are thinking of dividing the area south of central China. This is the greatest danger faced by China, even more than the earlier invasion of Manchuria by Russia. Therefore, to Japan, which supports the idea of protecting China by confronting England, the importance of Hong Kong in the plan to invade China is no less than the role of Port Arthur and Vladivostok during the Russo-Japanese War. England does not even consider the merely verbal resistance of Japan as it has an army that has defeated all its enemies and desires China. This is not a mere conjecture. It can be proved with facts…. The time to debate about whether to go to war with England to protect China has long passed.>The Japanese rising sun flag, after defeating England, making India independent and China self-reliant will shed the light of Heaven on all the people of the world…. It will only be then that the real awakening of the 700 million people of China and India begins. >>2117694It sounds like the concept of gekokujo, but on a global scale. You can feel the socialist influences in his thought, but the "right to conquest" was also supported by two other newly formed nations whose imperialist ambitions were frustrated by older empires: Germany and Italy.
If you go back enough, you can see that Japan tried to champion itself as the leader of the oppressed people because they felt they were denied their "right" to build an empire by other western powers because they weren't white.
See the russo-japanese war, whose peace terms caused violent riots in Japan because they were deemed unfair to Japan.
See the naval treaties, which basically paved the way for the navy's war plan against the US.
See the veto to the racial equality proposal at the league of nations.
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