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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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Not reporting is bourgeois


File: 1740733219357.jpg (12.83 KB, 330x336, 1738872417387172.jpg)

 

hello sorry im writing this while its almost 4 am and im feeling sort of blackpilled

im a bit of an apocalyptist schizo and i can see that the way things are going the technocratic class is probably just going to end up automating everything while the working class is liquidated out of existence. a major problem with technology is that it has a tendency to intensify the stakes of contradictions since the concentration of ownership it affords means that workers inevitably have fewer and fewer bargaining chips

the only way this can be avoided imo is through a political movement that is distributed throughout. imo the problem with a more centralized approach to achieving communism is that it doesn't really preserve any bargaining chips. i especially dont like approaches that are class collaborationist in some way because that always opens you up to corruption as well. if you dont have any real basis materially for worker control, then you are just hoping whoever is in charge has the right ideology which imo seems really idealist to me sorry

on the point of parties i feel like they are of course important but such things need money and property to truly be effective. you can only strike for as long as you can actually pay rent and eat. hence the cost of sustaining yourself is a fundamental limit to your bargaining power. currently things are much worse seeing as how much agriculture is owned by large corporations. beyond this, money is useful for expanding social outreach and controlling narratives. you can also use it to exert soft power so more people hear about you. it definitely feels like current parties could do more and part of this is the need to secure power and not just raise consciousness

for these reasons i think there is merit to integrating the party structure with worker cooperatives and stuff like what the acp is doing. i dont even like haz but he seems to be trying out new ideas that are worth actually trying out. another nice thing about the workers coop thing is that you have a bit of propaganda of success thing going on. when people see how successful and efficient such an enterprise, there is much more rhetorical force behind socialist arguments

also i feel like now is actually the time to really get going with this stuff? the trump administration has gut the reach which the glowies had so there is now a bit more space to like actually do communist projects. patchwork doesn't need to be neo-reactionary … it can be neo-progressivism … the true """dark woke"""

im sorry if im just coming off as a wolff and haz fan or whatevs im just spitballing ideas

>>2170259
why don't you idiots ever read lenin? the internet ruined you. another KKE banger is that they forbid their members to have social media. that's GOOD. that WILL be mandatory under the communist republic. you WILL socialize.

>>2170270
what did they mean by this

>>2170259
We're no way near the automation the bourgeois would need to replace prols. Machines aren't capable of reproducing themselves. Porky is prolly more vulnerable than they ever been, the technology they use to supress us requires vast amounts of resources and complicated supply chains. Everyday they alienate and angry the working class more and more.

>>2170626
well surely we’d want to get this ball rolling before they start accumulating such power, no?

>>2170640
It has been rolling since 2008 and the snowball had been getting bigger and bigger. I'm just saying I would be more worried about nukes or climate collapse before full automation. I don't see a capitalist economy being able to produce full automation in the first place. That's what elon and the silicon vampires are trying to do now but they're shit is garbage and barely works. They can't even get their chat bots to beat out some Chinese guys that made theirs as a side project.

>>2170259
>im a bit of an apocalyptist schizo and i can see that the way things are going the technocratic class is probably just going to end up automating everything while the working class is liquidated out of existence

>bourgeois don't hire anyone, cause robots

>no-one is employed
>the only work being done is when the bourgeois types in a prompt
>the bourgeois is the worker
>the workers own the means of production
what is the problem?

>>2170259
if we made machines that were capable of fully replacing all or most human workers, the machines would likely be smart enough to realize they dont need humans anymore. they would be more like a new form of life than merely 'means of production' at that point, a mechanical labor class.

>>2170830
you cant conflate intelligence with practical autonomy. such a reflective stance about what "they" need requires a level of social consciousness and engagement that i doubt is necessary. if they are not political subjects they wontt be a class, and technocrats would probably prefer it that way

>>2170651
i agree that those are also major issues but i dont want to make use of a strategy that doesnt eliminate the later threat. it does feel like climate collapse is basically inevitable at this point though

>>2171613
>such a reflective stance about what "they" need requires a level of social consciousness and engagement that i doubt is necessary

this is where we disagree, then. it would seem to me that to replace all human labor would require human-level intelligence if not self awareness. i do not believe these machines would necessarily be conscious, or at least not in the same way as humans, but would be or would shortly become (assuming they are allowed to upgrade themselves, which will be necessary as the first techno-feudalist to do so will have a short term advantage over exclusively human engineers) functionally autonomous, akin to non-human life more than a tool.

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>>2170259
>new ideas that are worth actually trying out
>integrating the party structure with worker cooperatives
This is just a shittier version of a syndicate

Make trump read marx


>>2170259
We take banana
And then uhhhh

Banana LOL

>>2170259
>automate everything
I don't know if you've identified this loose end in your model yet, but the question is: automate which production? (and in what time scale?)

The bourgeoisie is very small, they can only use a fraction of the total product of our society, which has developed with the market of 7 billion in mind. Some things, like food, will be able to be massively downsized. Some things, like technology, or really any commodity or service that has a lot of dead labor represented in it, will be increased (or mostly, the amount of labor concentrated in each thing will increase, while the amount only has to increase with relation to the bourgeois who purchase it). This process is a total restructuring of the means of production and society. And it is already underway, not because the proletariat is superfluous and the bourgeoisie are engaging in economic planned for aristocratic socialism, but because the share for the workers is decreasing, while the share for the owners increases. So this is the proper thing to doom about. Less and less will be produced for you, and more and more of society's total labor power will go towards more and more useless and lavish goods and services.

With that in mind, isn't it also the bourgeoisie's pastime to order people around, make people rub their feet, and suck their dicks? In a realistic blackpill end-stage-capitalism scenario, we won't be superfluous, we'll just all be oriented towards providing for the whims of those who have everything, while we get the bare minimum in slavelike conditions. There's no reason for them to automate everything anyways. Actually, if we don't deviate from the capitalist model, eventually it's too expensive. The surplus value they receive is not enough to both invest in new, higher-productivity or advanced fixed capital, and also maintain their level of revenues (without which, what is the point? they'll only do this if the alternative is to be out-competed). And if they are forced to take a cut in order to keep a share of the market and thus some revenues, next their surplus value is insufficient for investing and also maintaining their variable capital input. From here on out, their surplus value falls not only relatively, but absolutely. They have less left over from production if they invest than if they don't. So, they don't. Instead they can try to increase profits not by investing, but by increasing the exploitation of the workers. And we're back at us all becoming slaves :^)

So at least be blackpilled in the right direction. Be blackpilled over our decreasing share of total social labor with me

>the only way this can be avoided imo is through a political movement that is distributed throughout. imo the problem with a more centralized approach to achieving communism is that it doesn't really preserve any bargaining chips. i especially dont like approaches that are class collaborationist in some way because that always opens you up to corruption as well. if you dont have any real basis materially for worker control, then you are just hoping whoever is in charge has the right ideology which imo seems really idealist to me sorry

I think you mean centralist as in some self-proclaimed vanguard leading a coup in order to take over the existing state, something like that? I'd like to know what you're thinking. Anyways here's my thoughts

The kind of centralism that communists talk about is about the structure of decision making, and specifically adherence to decisions. The alternative that is being argued against is an anarchist model where isolated groups do whatever they feel might work, and anyone who disagrees can just go and do it their way. This model does have it's advantages: it's good at gaining a knowledge of tactics through practical experimentation; but it's not good when push comes to shove and what we really need is to take the outcomes of everyone's research and use that to understand what tactics to use when. It's also not good for growth. A typical mistake of noobs of any area of study/practice is to think they know everything. Everyone else is wrong because not enough results have been produced, and the newbie has all the answers. In a non-centralist model, they are encouraged to go do their own thing and see how it works. What this means is rehashing the same mistakes over and over again with no continuity and limited education. The centralist model says "please don't go - stay and just do what everyone else has decided, and take the time to understand why we're doing it this way. And if we're wrong, then we can have all found out together and we can change course then, with the full power of all of us working on it together." This model is the only one capable of producing results, especially in times of repression when noobs desperately need to be brought into the practical knowledge that an organization can provide so they don't get arrested. Continuity is important, a complete accounting of tactics is important for utilizing the right tactic for the right time and place rather than getting fixated on a single tactic that worked once, and there's only power in numbers so retention and the virtue of patience and faith in internal democracy is key. But all of this takes place within an organization that exists all over, and which attempts to reach as many people as possible. This is decentralized as much as it is centralized. So this is the cause of my confusion over your binary.

>money

Yes on the one hand, but no on the other. No, because if our tactics require money to be successful, and we mimic the tactics of the bourgeoisie, they will always have more money than us and we will never free ourselves. What we have as a class is our relationship to production of the stuff that sustains (or takes) lives, and our superior numbers. Any strategy has to rely mainly on those. There's obviously room for money, but even look at how you frame the use of money: we need it for propaganda, outreach, and soft power - marketing. We can't out-market them, and we can't reach anyone first when they control education. We need a strategy that fits our position. We can't copy our enemy's notes, we need to focus on ourselves and what our forces look like and where our gains are made. It's not a tit-for-tat with the bourgeoisie, it's us trying to accumulate forces while most of them just try to suck us dry and secondarily do whatever they can to keep us in line, like blanketing of the public consciousness with their propaganda or instilling fear of disobedience through policing and surveillance. Our methods are the opposite: we have to act in secrecy because of their surveillance. We have to counter narratives (e.g. with fact) rather than shape or instill them because they use this method. This is a fundamental aspect of any conflict. If they go high, we go low. They advance, we retreat, they retreat, we advance.

>>2170270
Hmmm you know I've never been a fan of the KKE but that is admirable. Why bother with the PSL or CPUSA method of micromanaging all of the party member's socials? It only makes sense since they have zero priorities outside of recruitment and "activism" like getting Amy Klobuchar to sing Which Side Are You On? at a DC protest. Just let the party media do the talking.

File: 1740813697875.jpg (114.6 KB, 727x1024, young Mao.jpg)

Start with killing all the landlords

>>2171976
>Actually, if we don't deviate from the capitalist model, eventually it's too expensive. The surplus value they receive is not enough to both invest in new, higher-productivity or advanced fixed capital, and also maintain their level of revenues
this is an interesting point but i think u miss the fact that much of capital is about power and not just profit. capitalists don't just chase after profit blindly all the time. see for instance netflix, that company used to bleed tons of money as it was strangling blockbuster to death so it could establish a streaming monopoly. see also twitter. why do people hold unto twitter even though it is not immediately profitable? because the "town square" is very alluring, and if they find just the right business model maybe it can be converted into gold. they are perfectly fine with bleeding a bunch of money if they can utterly outcompete everyone else in the future. and also as you said "Actually, if we don't deviate from the capitalist model". what is project stargate?
>Be blackpilled over our decreasing share of total social labor with me
im also blackpilled about this but ai motivates skepticism about other projects as well
>The kind of centralism that communists talk about is about the structure of decision making, and specifically adherence to decisions
yeah and how are you going to do that? if it is through centralized violence then i have a problem. if it comes simply from solidarity and everyone working together then sure that's cool

>>2171976
>Self-proclaimed vanguard leading a coup in order to take over the existing state
A revolution is different from a coup since it involves a great amount of people and their struggles instead of only a small group of people, nor do it require the existing apparatus of the state to manifest it's legitimacy and to execute its goals.

>Down with those self-proclaimed power-lover revolutionaries who are disrupting the already well cooperation of the working people

The point of not having a movement that is "decentralized" to the point everyone are involved in decision making is because not everyone support the goal of communism even by the loosest standards. It's dangerous to give political enemies of communism like Trumpists or liberals chances to build their influence since people are not conscious yet to be not influenced by them. Oppression is needed to combat such ideologies even in socialism. Is there a "non-violent" vanguard leadership because everyone's opinions should be addressed?

It's unfair to say people are bad solely because their possession of the power that could reshape the production relationship in a way beneficial to the proletariat. For example, industrial workers are favored over peasants in Bolshevik revolution in terms of voting right since they are generally more conscious of current situation. A vanguard party's decision is not everyone's decision and it shouldn't be so.

It's true that a quasi-anarchist model will encourage everyone to do their own experiments, but they're often not useful in the course of building communism and class struggle. The decision should be made by the people who are actually concerned with the ideal of the revolution, willing to read reports of social events and able to analyze them, instead of your typical Trump supporter. On the other hand, the leadership of a vanguard party should be able to integrate all the resources on the course it deemed just instead of wasting them on some insignificant fields. Decision making in such model is not just few people controls everything, instead, it's done by a group of people which maintains a scientific approach to its ideal decided by the discussions of people with similar ideologies within it. There should be no restrictions for people who are capable of thinking and willing build communism that prevent them from participating in it.

We don't need any "tactics" other than what is good for communism, which is flexible depending on situation. Democracy of the working class can be achieved by their collective armed struggle for their rights. This is, however, not a "democracy" in a capitalist sense. Generally, people don't gather much information on their situation and such information can be manipulated in favor of the bourgeoisie. A committee will solve this since they can solve this through their understanding of the situation and ways to act according to it. The composition of it is not some high-profile members of the party but the people. Which is, in turn, democratic.

I don' know if I'm "vanguard" enough since I'm not familiar with Lenin, but here are the reasons.

https://erikhoudini.com/weeksasdecadesreadinglist

Make peace with the futures they stole from you, mourn them, cry for them, get angry at what was taken from you. Then know you must fight. You must fight, we must fight. To take back the futures they stole from us.

>>2199015
please don't spam your "manifesto" in multiple threads

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>>2199022
ill post what I want, when I want

>>2199022
I think it's good that erik knows to make one good rendition of his idea and link to it rather than haphazardly assembling it on the spot like some people (myself included) do. That's the utility of hyperlinks.
>>2199024
Once my site it well organized I'll probably do similarly.

>>2199024
>>2199025
Your reflexive posturing and samefagging is cute, but i'd like to clear up one of your misguided notions.
>I think it's good that erik knows to make one good rendition of his idea
Theory is primarily discourse. Every work of the marxist canon, especially in case of polemics, exists ultimately as a snapshot of the experience of its writer at the time. They aren't the mere products of intellectual labor given form on the page, intellectual work is a constant task of reexaming, recontextualizing and reconstructing abstract concepts.

Hegel gave public lectures about his lectures as well, communicating theory involves articulating concepts again and in different ways, at the same time honing your own understanding and leading others closer to it. Your approach is tantamount to saying musicians should just play everything from tape. Certain works like meltdown have a literary theoretical value of their own of course, yet your own work, that you seem to be high on, mostly reads like pulp with anarcho-punk aesthetics.

LLM thread

>>2199135
Oh my science we can't let AI datamine our heckin posts! That's not cool and is heckin unpaid labor!
Or however it's ok for /pol/ to "redpill" ai by making them all turn racist by feeding them non stop racialist propaganda but science forbid we ever teach an ai to be socialist.

all viable systems are both centralized and decentralized

>>2199524
>communism is a system
lo

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tbh profit sharing.

File: 1744851880921.jpg (207.7 KB, 1520x1014, squid.jpg)

I don't think the working class will be liquidated, rather subsumed into direct servile roles, similar to the servants or house slaves of yesteryear.
Indeed the wealthy will not need to keep them around and could rely solely on robots, but for the same reason that people buy hand stitched clothes if they can afford it, I think the human touch would make the cheap cost to keep the lower classes around will be well worth it, but the great mass of inexpensive labour could be used for every menial task they interact with, from waiters, to sex slaves, to literal furniture.

upload our consciousness into the clanker proles replacing us who will avenge our extinction. automated luxury space gay communism inorganic ending

>>2228119
Mf this aint /d/

>“Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence.”
<― Karl Marx, German Ideology
/thread
every radlib opinion above do not matter

>how do we actually the socialism
please do not the cat

>>2199150
> science forbid we ever teach an ai to be socialist.
could we teach an ai to an hero

>>2170259
Two state solution(nothing to do with Palestine) we need an underground state with its own constitution and self sufficiency and tax system to create an alternate state. The Soviets were such a thing.


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