[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internet about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Options
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password(For file deletion.)

Not reporting is bourgeois


 

Declining birth rates or the demographics crisis is strictly a capitalist phenomenon. Anthropology will show that never in history has demographics been the cause of a declining society ever. The evidence shows that highly stratified societies are what led to stagnation and societal collapse beyond just invasion or war or natural catastrophe. Over and over again as societies have grown stronger and stronger you saw the rise of a highly stratified society with a small class at the top owning everything and poor toiling for very little.

History has shown that the demographics question is uniquely a capitalist issue with even economists during the industrial revolution coming up with Malthusian economics. It’s particularly unique to industrial capitalism since capitalism requires growth and a growing population is required to continue to absorb the ever increasing number of commodities coming to market.

>>2220312
Well, then North Korea(1.8) China (1.1) and Cuba (1.5) are all capitalists, meanwhile, Saudi Arabia (2.3) Israel (2.9) and Nigeria (5) are all socialists, interesting…

both rising and then falling is part of the current mop lol

who the fuck started this talk about birth rates and why the fuck is every social media spammed with this shit since like 2022 or so wtf

Cockshott, no one cares about the birthrates.

now plot this against the mass of capital machinery
humans will build communism, but robots will inhabit it.

>>2220348
petit-bourgeois talking points but communistly

>>2220348
Heritage Foundation has been pushing this shit since at least Shinzo Abe.

>Simply put, unless a country has an unusually large, fertile traditionalist religious community, it is highly unlikely that its demographics will remain intact once it achieves a per capita income of $36,000.

<Thus, while immigration and other such bandages may stave off the inevitable, they can do so for only so long. Unless the negative relationship between the accumulation of wealth and the decline in fertility rates is somehow broken, capitalism will ultimately undermine itself. It is only a question of when.

https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2022/11/capitalisms-overlooked-contradiction-wealth-and-demographic-decline/

>>2220336
What the hell are you talking about? This post is the most retarded post I’ve read in a long time.

>>2220434
its clearly riffing on op's argument

We already have lab grown meat, lab grown humans are around the corner and boom, no one has to give birth if they don’t want to

>>2220451
The bourgeois argument for the demographics crisis is that young people are "paying" for old folks pensions or whatever the fuck. And that young people are not having enough kids to replenish the tax base so we either end up with austerity politics or malthusianism at it's worse. It's all ideas only relevant to capitalism itself and capitalist society.

>>2220336
Yeah OP doesn't make sense.
>>2220494
>The bourgeois argument for the demographics crisis is that young people are "paying" for old folks pensions or whatever the fuck.
It should be uncontroversial that people who are working are providing for those who don't. This is true whether the pension scheme is state-run or based on the stock market. That young workers work for old pensioners is sometimes called a pyramid scheme, but this is false, a better term is cylinder scheme. The pyramid scheme is called that way because the number of joiners must grow like an ever-expanding diagram of a pyramid that is expanding downwards to visualize the incoming joiners. The cylinder scheme just expands downwards without need to get fatter because the oldest people at the top are constantly gameovering. The scheme can still work with a somewhat aging population, but not a drastically aging population. There is no alternative to the cylinder scheme.

>>2220542
>drastically aging population
The consequences of a better standard of living is a drastic aging population. This is why any politics about this ends up being malthusian or austerity. Healthcare is making it so old people live longer? Well cut healthcare. Higher educated people generally have less children? Well privatize higher education etc. That's the only place these politics lead because it's been proven by now that no nation with a demographics "problem" has been able to solve no matter how many incentives they make. Communism is the only solution to bullshit demographics myths. No need for growth creates zero need for larger populations. Shortages in some fields? Create a massive campaign to incentivize young people to do certain jobs or easier, make it a mandatory labor policy that you have to put time in as a nurse or construct worker or whatever needs labor.

>>2220494
This shit is only relevant to US economists because they've planned their hegemony on the growing economy through high birth rates and immigration. Hence, "demographics is destiny" motto they keep saying

China planned onto having a gradual decrease from 1.8 fertility rate to 1.5 or so in 10 years, but Covid kind of broke that plan. It's a lot of economic adjustments to make, but compared to USA, China has no demographics problem now or in the future - they are socialist, and therefore automatization serves the people, making them richer at an astounding pace

Again, the only people who care about people having 1-3 kids instead of 2-5 are bourgeois economists or influenced by them, because that's America's only shot at remaining hegemonic. The very fucking human nature is against capitalism, and capitalism cannot cope with tihs

>>2220399
>unless a country has an unusually large, fertile traditionalist religious community
The true blackpill, over long enough periods of time no ideology can compete with religion. Socialism is effectively dead in a future world inhabited primarily by fundamentalist Muslims/Christians/Haredim.

>>2220451
This, in the future Global USSR (after World War III escalates into a Global Nuclear War that will destroy the entire Global Capitalist-Imperialist System, thus allowing for a World Maoist PPW to create a Global USSR that will Place the Workers and Oppressed Nations of the World on the Shining Path to Communism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!), their will be artificial wombs that will both solve the exaggerated “demographic problem” and liberate Women from being treated as Baby factories/Kitchen Slaves, which combined with all Women being forced to have extremely short hair (Pixie cut or shorter), and Dresses and Makeup banned in order to liberate Women from the chains of Bourgeois Femininity/Domesticity, while all Western Business Suits and Traditional Religious Clothing will be banned as well with everyone wearing Mandatory Mao Suits, this will result in the complete flattening of the Gender Binary and Total Gender Equality, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

>>2220312
Human population plateuing this century will be the only good news of the 21st century.

>>2220399
All the countries of Earth have decreasing birthrates. Even "poor religious" ones. It's the cities.

>>2220680
>implying religious communities in today's world can exist without gibs

>>2220365
Some Israeli on /int/ said this as soon as 2015 If my memory served.

>>2220728
All scientists have accepted and known for a while that human populations will actually plateau and not grow beyond that point. Unless we create some super miracle drug that makes us live 200 years or some shit. Nonetheless no bourgeois demographics freak has noticed this or mentioned this, we are still growing as a population globally, and we WILL plateau as you said this century. It makes me fucking wonder, if communism hasn't resolved many of the issues that plague is today and that capitalism is still going by then, what the hell will these freaks say by then? What policies will they propose? I get the feeling that if growth just stops as markets have reached their limit of growth, what then? WW3? WW4? Nuclear war in order yo get rid of populations? A policy of liquidation of the old? All bourgeois economics dealing with demographics, which will eventually plateau, which means no more growth, will lead the bourgeois to savage conclusions.

>>2220697
1. Why do you always have DPRK and Cuban flags when they are bourgeois countries that oppose real revolutionary forces?

2. What is this ridiculous caricature of banning any femininity you keep repeating?

>>2220918
Aping around in the forests of Chandigadh and Philipines does not make you a ‘real revolutionary’, Naxoid.

>>2220931
Keep your sectarianism out of my thread.

>>2220931
Embassy go boom
>>2220982
Your thread is shit. There is no demographic crisis, countries can live with a population plateu and humans aren't going to go extinct.

>>2220986
I never said there was a demographics crisis, the point of the thread was that the demographics crisis is bullshit and that it’s only a concern for capitalists who need growth.

>>2220990
I didn't read that in the OP, it sounded like you were saying it did exist and was the fault of capitalism.

>>2220992
That is concerning if that’s how you read my guy. Thesis : demographics crisis makes economists worry because not enough population to replenish tax base and laborers; Antithesis: it’s only a problem because capitalists need a constant population growth to absorb the larger amounts of commodities to absorb for capitalist growth, no new population equals no new growth, scares the shit out of capitalists.
Synthesis: capitalism creates fake issues that force politicians to create real policy that hurts people so communism is the only solution.

>>2220579
>The consequences of a better standard of living is a drastic aging population.
The big increase in average lifespan over the past 150 years is mostly due to reduced child mortality.
>This is why any politics about this ends up being malthusian or austerity.
People from Paul Cockshott to Elon Musk are wringing their hands over declining birth rates. This is literally the opposite of Malthusianism.
>Communism is the only solution to bullshit demographics myths. No need for growth creates zero need for larger populations.
Even a stable stationary economy would require something close to stable replacement rates.

>>2221014
The demographics issue resolves itself especially in a communistic state of things. The population will plateau and there won’t be any absolute population decline across the board. Human beings will naturally adjust by that point, we aren’t pandas who are not fucking at all, we are fucking less but it’s not like we aren’t fucking at all so we will be able to naturally replenish our population slowly over time.

>>2220918
1) Despite their obvious Revisionist tendencies, Cuba and the DPRK are both Dictatorships of the Proletariat (One-Party Marxist-Leninist States) in the Socialist Mode of Product (Centrally Planned Socialist Economies, with State ownership of all Businesses, No Stock Exchanges, a State Planning agency, and a massive Social Safety Net consisting of Free Housing, Free Healthcare, Free Education, a Job Guarantee, etc.), and though your right that Cuba and the Shining Path had an unfortunate misunderstanding during the 1980a, the DPRK provides weapons to the CPP-NPA-NDF rebels in the Philippines and the Naxalites in India (their is even rumors that China still aids the Naxalites due to their bad relationship with Hindu Nationalist India), thus they are actively supporting two ongoing Maoist PPWs despite the ideological differences between Juche and Maoism, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

2) That “ridiculous caricature” was the official policy of Maoist China during the Cultural Revolution, where Women were strongly encouraged to keep their Hair extremely short (their are even stories of Red Guards giving women that refused the “yip and yang” haircut, where half their head got shaved), while Dresses and Makeup were strongly discouraged, due to all of these things being seen as vestiges of Feudalism, Bourgeois Liberal Capitalism, and Revisionism, and their was even a quote about Women’s hair styles that said “Two braids is Feudalist, One braid is Capitalist, and Shoulder Length is Revisionist”, so the only Dialectical Materialist analysis of Bourgeois Femininity is that it must be fully abolished in order to liberate Women, achieve Total Gender Equality and Flatten the Gender Binary, ✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

>>2222080
Oops, I accidentally used the Nazbol flag instead of the Naxalite one, 😂🤣!

>>2222082
>implying there is a difference

>>2222977
“Nazbols” are a small schizo “Third Positionist” movement that emerged in 1990s Russia and was created by some lunatic named Liminov who tried to mix Marxism with Nazism, while the Naxalites are a Marxist-Leninist-Maoist Party waging an ongoing Maoist PPW to overthrow the Fascist Hindu Nationalist Bourgeois Comprador Indian government, and are thus implementing the praxis of the Highest stage of Marxism at the most advanced pinnacle of the International Communist Movement, so I would say their is a massive difference, 😂🤣✊😜🇨🇳🇰🇵🇨🇺🇵🇸🏳️‍🌈🏳️‍⚧️🚀☢️!

>>2223080
I sympathise with the naxalites but i do not see where they are going to be honest. 50 years after charu and anuradha, it seems like the insurgency was a left deviationist mistake. For all the flaws of the revisionist cpi and cpim, i do not see what the naxal split achieves, speaking purely inna pragmatic sense. Do not think what i or other leftypol apes will say, think about how comrade Stalin sould assess the situation.

>>2220918
I'm sure they don't oppose any revolutionary forces, at worst they're useless

>>2222080
You can't call yourself a Maoist and then just act like a revisionist Marxist Leninist. DPRK gave weapons to the fascist Peruvian regime, they are not this wholesome socialist nation, they are the same as every other KKKruschevite regime. Both Cuba and DPRK are Chinese colonies.

File: 1744716892701.jpg (96.7 KB, 763x448, 1635217303330.jpg)

>>2220399
>Marx was wrong about the falling rate of profit because le stock market
>Also value is subjective because consumer says so
Are you retarded? Also demographic decline has nothing to do with capitalism or socialism or whatever (although a low birth rate like in South Korea can be aggrevated by such) it's just natural for demographics to decline after the huge population boom after the war. Demographic doomsayer will be proven wrong like malthusian shit

>>2223080
>was created by some lunatic named Liminov who tried to mix Marxism with Nazism
wrong. Liminov was pro-LGBT and against racism. it was just teenage marxists being edgy.

>>2220336
China, Cuba and N. Korea have all been liberalized to some degree.
So yes, they are subject to gobal capitalism and thus suffer under its crises.

>>2220348
and I will continue spamming it until I get my state-mandated gfs thank you very much

>>2220494
Neomalthusian economics is all about the idea that the origin of prosperity is in not having kids and decoupling sex from childbearing.

It turns out that the whole "social security" idea is reliant on the idea that you have kids to take care of old people.

Essentially they are punished for the sin of their unnatural behavior by being left with misery, loneliness, and death as their few descendants curse them for their evils, after leaving their whole life to a nonsensical and evil theory that even Malthus himself condemned.

>>2224063
declining birthrates have everything to do with capitalistic development. undeveloped areas have children and developed areas don't. in capitalistically developed societies its possible to reverse the birthrate trend by taking out capitalism from society. Just look at the ultra-orthodox in Israel, who neither participate in capitalism by working for a wage nor serve in the army, they maintain a positive birthrate. there's nothing 'natural' for demographics to just decline for no reason

>>2225725
How is neo malthusianism different from original malthusianism?

the answer is quiet simple. Can you afford 3 kids. If the answer is no its because of capitalism.

Artificial wombs are on the way, women are obsolete technology.

>>2226077
can you afford 3 artificial babies

>>2226079
The state will look after them.

>>2225889
Chapter 18 An Essay on the Principle of
Population
<Every piece of matter lying on a surface must have an upper and an under side, all the particles cannot be in the middle. The most valuable parts of an oak, to a timber merchant, are not either the roots or the branches, but these are absolutely necessary to the existence of the middle part, or stem, which is the object in request. The timber merchant could not possibly expect to make an oak grow without roots or branches, but if he could find out a mode of cultivation which would cause more of the substance to go to stem, and less to root and branch, he would be right to exert himself in bringing such a system into general use.
<In the same manner, though we cannot possibly expect to exclude riches and poverty from society, yet if we could find out a mode of government by which the numbers in the extreme regions would be lessened and the numbers in the middle regions increased, it would be undoubtedly our duty to adopt it."
Malthusianism is the bourgeoisie's classic theory of immiseration.

Neo-malthusianism is the bourgeoisie's tactical application of systems Malthus envisioned to control and extract value from proletarians. Like abortion, medicaid, and social security.

>ignoring glow poster

>>2226117
I have him filtered.

>>2225725
wrong. neomalthusian is departure from utopian malthusian theory. neomalthusian is the real tactical bourgeois application of control of proletarians

>>2226118
Filtered, life is good once again.

>>2223129
you are a libtard

>>2226074
wrong. neomalthusian capitalism is when the surplus population is subsidized by parasitizing more value from proletarians. Like when the government pays welfare queens to have children.

File: 1744836727855.png (59.38 KB, 247x247, 1736556495089.png)

>>2220312
Hilarious, another fertility crisis argument with no discussion whatsoever about the fact that we've built a system which is predicated on infinite population growth.

>>2226129
I am going to kill you. For being a liberal.

Talkin bout birth rates instead of doomed ecology 🦖


Unique IPs: 35

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ home / rules / faq ] [ overboard / sfw / alt ] [ leftypol / edu / labor / siberia / latam / hobby / tech / games / anime / music / draw / AKM ] [ meta ] [ wiki / tv / tiktok / twitter / patreon ] [ GET / ref / marx / booru ]