I realize now subcultures are just another form of false consciousness. I lurked 4chan as Gamergate was happening, I witnessed Gamergate turn from "video game journalism is corrupt" to "THE RADICAL LEFT WANTS TO TAKE OUR VIDYA".
Is it a coincidence that 4channers turned into fascists?
But this isn't a thread specifically about 4chan/Gamergate. Rather, I'm using a lived example, of a subculture becoming a rallying cry for reaction, to illustrate a point.
Why did this happen? Because video games are sacred for anyone who identifies as a gamer. More important than their ACTUAL class interests. That is LITERALLY THE DEFINITION of false consciousness. And OF COURSE that can be used for counter-revolutionary purposes.
<But what about """""progressive""""" subcultures like punk???
NATO ultralibs literally co-opted punk. If NATO ultralibs can think the music represents them, it ain't revolutionary bud.
A relevant quote with regards to the """""revolutionary""""" nature of subcultures:
>“During the Vietnam War, which lasted longer than any war we’ve ever been in - and which we lost - every respectable artist in this country was against the war. It was like a laser beam. We were all aimed in the same direction. The power of this weapon turns out to be that of a custard pie dropped from a stepladder six feet high.” - Kurt Vonnegut
I am sick and tired of the subculture obsession. At best, it alienates the underclass from each other, at worst it is literally used as a rallying cry against communists and the class struggle.
No, I'm not telling you that you can't enjoy video games and music. I'm telling you to stop making it your identity, if you're actually serious about this socialism thing. If something like a disagreement over tastes in video games and music is enough to make you ostracize another prole, I have no choice but to think of you as an enemy of socialism, because that's what you functionally are.
FUCK subcultures
161 posts and 12 image replies omitted.>>2220758>false consciousnessOnly if you are the go along to get along type, I'm in a heap of subcultures where we share a common interest but disagree on plenty.
>I lurked 4chan as Gamergate was happeningSame, I even went to 8chan until the pig fucker ruined it, for the vast majority in GG it always was about blatant corruption but as always with the internet a couple of hundred people deciding to make death threats can make it look like tens out thousands of people, even moreso today with bots.
>Is it a coincidence that 4channers turned into fascists?The narrative didn't just move from "you can't trust the media" to "SJWs are killing vidya" that was a deliberate effort by the propaganda machine to retain control.
>At best / at worstHow fucking autist do you get about your interests?
>I'm telling you to stop making it your identityPeople do this? In that case I agree with you.
>>2221704>>2221718 I just dont understand how you thought youd be understood when you just state one sentence slogans over and over expecting them to make sense without explaining what you mean.
you are being vague af
>>2220758I dislike imposed culture.
I like multiple optional cultures.
>>2225661Very interesting. This kind of breakdown really showcases how subcultures are fundamentally antisocial.
>>2225877Are football ultras even called a subculture? Rooting for a sports team is just culture without the sub part, ultras are the extreme version of that. Football ultras and regular fans are in fact part of the same hierarchy, with the ultras acting as the 'big brothers', and the regular fans being complacent in their existence by never for example criticizing the behavior of the ultras of their team and even defending them. The hierarchy is indeed a central component, it is not disorganized screeching, as subcultures are. It's certainly antisocial, being an ultra, but I'd argue being complacent towards ultras is equally antisocial, and such behavior in many Latin American and European countries is normalized.
>>2226131Can you elaborate? Be more specific?
>>2225661it's hard to say that the warsaw pact countries weren't trying to compact everyone into a single mold when they apparently consider people who cosplay as music idols who were relevant 25 years before on the same page of anti-social as literal fucking skinhead nazi gangs.
The ideal of communist culture is an HOA full of sociopath Karens, apparently.
>>2221033>millennials millennials are not a hive mind, and the distribution of millennials who did and did not do this is scattered in a pretty normal way.
im a millennial and i have always managed to find spaces with people who support gatekeeping out the shit heads that ruin shit.
>>2228040if you think the USSR was a success then i dont want you involved when the next attempt at communism happens.
the USSR was good in theory, but what it was in practice was a horribly corrupt system that was so insanely corrupt that it tried to cover up a nuclear fucking meltdown when everyone knew it happened, and then sent dozens of people to their deaths because they didn't want to acknowledge what happened.
the USSR was a failure. we can and should aspire to have something better.
>>2228055unironically eat a bullet
you are in the way
>>2228058it should be studied, and there are parts of it that were fantastic, but ultimately it was a failure.
the point is not every attempt at something will be a success, but dismissing it after a failure only ensures failure in the future.
we will never have a leftist front if we dismiss the idea of subcultures due to some failures of the past, just like how communism could never have a chance if we forever bind ourselves to the fate of the USSR.
>>2228064I don't really dismiss subcultures, and I do not agree with the chud takes that over-rationalise subcultures as something unnecessary, reactionary or whatever. People like other people who have similar interests and will usually seek their company, complete with codes, jargon and symbols. It is no rocket science.
But it might be that I did not read the thread very attentively. I do not see how having subcultures lead to a political system's demise. Yugoslavia had huge sub-cultures (a huge rock n' roll scene for instance), and people see it as one of the best parts of Yugoslav life back then, because it kind of added colour to life in Yugoslavia.
But whether the USSR was a failure or not, depends on how you view dialectics itself. The USSR and its experiences can contribute to a long-term emergence of consciousness, even though the at some point real-existing political project itself failed (as in: its institutions no longer exist and it is no longer a force on the geopolitical stage).
To me, calling it a failure would be a bit radical, because it still managed to exist for 70 years despite immense imperialist pressure, help masses of people out of poverty, and so on.
>>2228072the thing is, it IS a failure. objectively. in the end it was horribly corrupt and was not doing anybody any good, and ultimately led to the russia we have today.
you are, however, doing what im saying we SHOULD do with subcultures, and culture in general. instead of looking at something as a failure and ending it there, we should look into WHY something failed so that we can create a successful version of it.
instead of dismissing punks, or subculture in general, or even the USSR and other attempts at socialism or communism, we should look at what causes the failures we can think of so that we can ensure success in the future.
>>2228093ignoring reality isnt gonna get you what you want
it's just gonna keep us further spiraling into fascism
>>2228096no idea what youre on about now. youre just replying to shit that wasnt said.
hope your therapist can help you because god sure can't, clearly
>>2228100youre right broski
but we aint gonna fix that shit if we outlaw the idea of subcultures and cripple all methods of organization against the machine.
>>2226328>>2226131The behavior of both groups is identical mentally.
Neither have consideration for emotional aspects and neither are likely to have higher brain thought.
Both groups always think inwards and have self preferential treatment.
Both will unfairly dismiss others if they have the ability to do so. The uneducated right wing at the very least will be honest about their hatred, meanwhile the other cultures from other countries will smile and pretend that they don't hate, but act on that hatred in the same manner.
The differences in honesty is because of social conditioning, the foreigners are punished for what they say and their society has become dishonest.
Both these groups will work together to accomplish the goal of punishing people for what they say even though they are at odds with each other as neither of those 2 groups have higher brain thought.
Because of the people's current state any culture will attempt to impose itself, the imposing of culture is an undesirable property.
Hence a simple system which never imposes a culture and forcefully but fairly destabilizes cultures which do impose themselves, becomes ideal. Equivalent imposing of restrictions according to the culture's imposition as a first punishment, then a breaking up of the culture and ripping it apart as a second time punishment for imposition, would work fine to rapidly encourage growth of multiple different cultures and ideas.
Now I say group, but it may be group or person, identifying technically what is causing the problem is required.
>>2228072>we should look at what causes the failuresCommodity production. Both the punk scene and the USSR imploded because they were fundamentally part of the international capitalist system. Punks called it "selling out", in reality, they were literally "selling out" day 1. That's what commodity production literally is, the buying and selling of commodities. There is no such thing as "respectful" commodity production.
You want an explanation for why subcultures are reactionary? Commodity production. Done. Capitalist base > reactionary superstructure. Open and shut.
>>2228917so dont sell shit
ez
>>2229157every alt subculture person i know does their own shit, its always NOTAFLOF, we always make shit for one another, we give our clothes away, we give free food at free events to support our community.
just because you suck at being human doesnt mean the rest of us do.
>>2221039>>2228023>>2221094Now you know how it sounds where you guys generalise and blame zoomers for anything wrong.
>>>2225654Nah that would be ball sports fandom and attending political rallies.
>>2225661Subcultures have always existed.
Also this chart seems to be more upset about kids having their own form.ogf music and fashion rather than the criminal minorities of said youth subcultures.
>>2227938No different from capitalism
Unique IPs: 28