[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music ] [ meta ] [ GET / ref]

/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
Name
Email
Subject
Comment
Flag
File
Embed
Password (For file deletion.)

We have an onion | Join Matrix Chat
We now have /sfw/ and /alt/!
Come join us on /hobby/ to follow the Euro tournament.


File: 1623267660009.png (89.08 KB, 720x562, Screenshot_20210609-145733.png)

 No.308161

What could be the implications of adopting Bitcoin as legal tender in El Salvador? In picrel it seems to suggest that it would ruin their economy. What are your thoughts?
>>

 No.308165

Bitcoin ancaps are coping at the thought that their currency can be coopted by states
>>

 No.308168

>>

 No.308181

Damn. Feel kinda bad for the guy in the pic
>>

 No.308206

>>308168
Thanks.
>>

 No.308225

File: 1623269512787-0.jpg (41.08 KB, 620x349, 201902061408250.bukele2.jpg)

File: 1623269512787-1.png (53.51 KB, 553x439, 5904859034850934.png)

Is this the face of a man who'd engage in money laundering? That's probably reason is my guess. You need a place to stash your dirty money? Convert it into Bitcoin and then turn it into beachfront real estate. Also he basically declared himself the Caesar of El Salvador last month. Maybe he's trying to avoid a balance of payments crisis and using bitcoin as a form of indirect dollar funding? See this:

>Now you might be asking yourself, after reading point 1, why El Salvador thinks that allowing a speculative asset to be used as legal tender would “increase national wealth for the benefit of the greatest number of inhabitants” and, well, we’re not quite sure. You might also be asking yourself whether access to financial services couldn’t be improved by trying a less risky fintech idea like, say, mobile money (real money) but again, we’re afraid we are also none the wiser. What we do know is that the bill has allowed the president of the country to add laser eyes to his Twitter profile picture, so maybe that’s something?


[…]

>That’s right. The US dollar — a fiat currency — will remain the reference currency. So prices in dollars. You can just imagine customers waiting at tills watching their phones waiting for the bitcoin price to climb a bit to get more for their money’s worth can’t you? What a great idea.


>And who would actually want to pay in bitcoin rather than dollars, we hear you ask? Well, usually converting real money into bitcoin carries a hefty fee. And also what happens with returns? Do you get refunded at the original exchange rate or the one that happens to coincide with your return? Isn’t there a huge risk for both merchants and buyers when using such a volatile instrument? The bill, unfortunately, doesn’t say.


>But despite the obvious flaws, might there be a grander plan being hatched here? OK probably not, but hear us out.


>In our FT Alphaville Clubhouse discussion this morning an alternative theory was floated as to why El Salvador may want bitcoin, and therefore ultimately dollar, flows. The Central American country is seeking $1bn from the IMF, yet the discussions got complicated after Bukele fired its five Supreme Court judges in early May, following a landslide election victory. The Biden administration was not best pleased.


>If the IMF funding is looking in doubt, then what better way to generate inflows than by letting international hodlers purchase your goods and services with their favourite coin? Seeing as refunds will likely have to be in dollars, you’d imagine merchants will be instantly selling their bitcoin for greenbacks on their exchange of choice to avoid volatility, creating a form of indirect dollar funding for the country.

https://archive.ph/m0hJ5
>>

 No.308226

>>308161
>What could be the implications of adopting Bitcoin as legal tender in El Salvador?
Malthusian for one side because has limits, but they could use a hybrid system if they allow their own currency to function, and on the other hand very powerful if this allows them to bypass sanctions because Bukele seems very determined to help dismantle OAS, and get out of the grip of the U.S.
He's still a sucker, IMHO.
>>

 No.308227

Not even neolibs are stupid enough to do something like this poor Salvadorians
>>

 No.308254

>>308181 For real I can feel their pain
>>

 No.308280

>>308161
They are practically losing any capability of raising new taxes and to pump money into the system via monetary policy.

If BTC takes over as the sole currency they'll be literally condemned to structural perpetual austerity, being incapable of both having deficit fiscal policies and expansive monetary ones.
>>

 No.308968

It's funny to see a right wing dictator adopting measures that could harm US influence. How much does this hurt the US grasp on El Salvador?
>>

 No.308976

on the one hand: probably nothing
on the other: depending on how it's structured, some people or businesses could get pretty comically fucked. imagine you pay your debts in bitcoin, only for the value to crash the next day.
>>

 No.308988

>>308225
Looks like Bukele is triying to turn El Salvador into a Tax heaven for Cryptomillionaries with the condition of bringing their capital to the country.
I wonder how bad it will end.
>>

 No.308998

lmao i can picture it:
New development in graphic cards design causes hyper inflation in el salvador, marshall law implemented
>>

 No.309038

>>308225
This dude is being actively advised by members of the Venezuelan opposition. So this could give you insight on why he does the things he does.
>>

 No.309046

Somalia 2.0
>>

 No.309053

More migrant caravans to the US
>>

 No.309054

>>308165
I remember a video a while back which had a libertarian actually crying at the idea of Bitcoin "liberating" the world from states who would use regular currency for wars and the like. Now the intial premise they tried to shill it as has all but dissipated, and Bitcoin is now but another currency to be adopted.
>>

 No.309057

File: 1623291553740.png (215.01 KB, 360x450, Marshall Law.png)

>>308998
>marshall law
>>

 No.309059

>>309054
The problem with the FED is that the dollar isn't backed by gold.
Adopt my currency that is not backed by gold.
>>

 No.309062

>>308226
Critical support?
>>

 No.309064

>>309057
'The El Salvadorian Caesar'
>>

 No.309071

>>309064
Augusto Marshall
>>

 No.309078

Does this mean if i own 0.01 bitcoins or something i can just automatically apply to become a permanent resident of el-salvador.
Seems like a bit of a fucking shady idea
>>

 No.309087

Lol just went on there.

>Prepare for the media narrative to go like this

>* "Reports of 'Unrest' in El-Salvador"
>* "Bitcoin drops 10%, Chaos in the streets of El-Salvador"
>* Smear campaigns against Bukele
>* Is El-Salvador being made a hub for drug trafficking???
>* 'Scandals' in the El-Salvadorian government.

>With the goal of putting the opposition party that opposed the bill into power to quickly revoke it.


Lol this retard thinks the CIA is aout to help the FMLN get elected.
>>

 No.309104

>>309054
This was what Ron Paul was promoting right until the first crash around 2018
In all honesty it's been an overused joke since then
>>

 No.309111

Wouldn't adopting any kind of crypto cause a deflationary crisis since that's what they are by design? Why would anyone invest money if they gain more by sitting on it and waiting for the price to go up?
>>

 No.309143

>>309111
Crypto is a bubble like all other stocks, people gamble with it for the shits and giggles
>>

 No.309161

>>309143
So what happens when you adopt Dutch Tulips as legal tender? Any historical precedent for this happening?
>>

 No.309173

>>309161

All currency in the modern day is speculative garbage when you think about it, fiat money as a concept and general economics are all spooked and not worth explaining beyond that
Technocrats Inc had a major focus on basing the worth of utilities and goods off the energy/labor force needing to procure such things and do away with the price system as part of Howard Scott's energy theory of value
>>

 No.309178

>>308161
I'm a biz user and a latin american too

I doubt so much, that the miners will move their constant capital to Salvador, honestly, they never care about environmental damage and those people who maybe care, simply they retired from mining years ago. In addition, it is not only about cheap electricity, it must also be a cold place without humidity, a place where it is impossible for a flood ocurre, places where you can place an absurd size order for computer parts, Salvador dosen't have any of these requirements.

Another problem, Salvador is one of the most insecure countrys of the world, If USA dosen't called for human rights yet, it is because that insecurity does not affect USA porkie. Brutal crimes are committed for a piece of bread, also is behind Venezuela in terms of people leaving his country because violence. What balls must have the miner who tries to invest in Salvador, maras are goin to kill miners in the street to sell their smartphone
>>

 No.309182

>>309173
The dollar is not really pure speculation in the way other speculative assets are, it's backed by the US military which is a very real thing
>>

 No.309267

>>309173
Technocracy literally doesn't work, because the educated have no reason to look out for the less educated. Because they can have everything and you as their slave, if they simply restored capitalism. It's how Soviet Union fell, and post-Soviet countries ended up with oligarch problem. Your retarded meme of a movement will never amount to anything, and nobody will be sad if you never push it again.

>it's not political, it's a technical problem!

Go back to liberalism any time.
>>

 No.309593

>>309267
I get thrown this argument alot, do you seriously think that not because Soviet leadership aged like milk or that they represented their own corrupt political interests rather the simple fact many of them had technical skills led to its downfall? Are you seriously trying to strawman this hard?
>the educated have no reason to look out for the less educated
then why did Engels care about the condition of workers? Why do modern professors like Parenti promote socialism for the good of all, including the less educated?
>>

 No.309602

File: 1623326742158.jpg (49.62 KB, 1109x412, Khrushchev's fuck up.jpg)

>>309593
>but what about this one individual? doesn't he reflect on the actions of the whole group?
No. Under capitalism, most of it went to the top, who now thought it was because they are smaht, and, therefore, merit it. Under socialism, economic gains are distributed evenly. To the educated, this represents an unacceptible stagnation. Especially when compared to the West. If you ever spoke to any educated about this, you'd know this. Most of them have an expectation of wealth, and blue collar trades being paid well is met with outrage.
>>

 No.309607

File: 1623327177883-0.png (78.34 KB, 332x97, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1623327177883-1.png (20.09 KB, 786x162, ClipboardImage.png)

>>309602
So pure capitalist and socialist systems have failing ways to handle the fact that society learns more as time goes on? You do realize that most of these systems, unless they institute some Castroist sense of class unity and comradery, will fall into meritocracy at some point?
Even China for all its economic prowess has this similar effect, where many in the government have strong technical skill clouded and forgotten for the sake of political ambition
>this represents an unacceptible stagnation
Technocrats in 1939 discovered that a technate would be able to make $300,000 in value for every citizen annually, I'd expect many white collar workers to find this more enjoyable than their current arrangement - especially since this number could be much higher given advancements since then
>>

 No.309645

>>309607
It doesn't matter how much money you can provide them, they will want a larger share. AND servants.
>>

 No.309652

>>309645
You have this notion that white collar workers are all entitled brats, but as we see now with significant amounts of Americans learning white collar skills and being a part of that class solely for the money even if they aren't passionate about such fields that whole ideal is being turned on its head
As a result the average salary of a computer science programmer is $50k, which is barely scraping by in many states for example
>>

 No.309659

>>309652
How is it being turned on its head? Do Ph. D.'s no longer insist on being called Doctors instead of Misters? Do the programmers no longer consider themselves underpaid?
>>

 No.309661

>>309659
yeah additionally if a privileged class arises it has material and egotistical incentive to change the rules in it's favour
>>

 No.309663

>>309659
I don't care what they call themselves the simple fact more of them exists in the current capitalist system means their degrees are "worth less" so to speak and therefore command less respect
>>309661
The scientists and professionals of today are largely privileged, I'll admit, but this doesn't bar all others from learning in a fairer society
Technocracy basically glorifies knowledge as the be all end all to a productive society that runs as efficiently as possible, though we would need another Case Study to see if this can still be the same as was defined in the 40s.
>>

 No.309666

>>308161
Bitcoin is investing for zoomers. They are like teenage porkies.
>>

 No.309667

>>309663
>the current capitalist system means their degrees are "worth less" so to speak and therefore command less respect
And your ideology's assumption that handing them over control of the state won't mean that they won't "correct" this "injustice" is based on… what?
>>

 No.309669

>>309663
>Technocracy basically glorifies knowledge as the be all end all to a productive society that runs as efficiently as possible
RIP old people, btw.
>>

 No.309672

>>309667
Based on the fact that humans naturally trust those with skill talent and knowledge to handle situations, even if such skills are inflated and taken out of proportion
Take the COVID response for instance, Fauci himself is a Reaganite fossil but people still diefied him for the sake of getting rid of the crisis
Should the farmer's ministry be led by a seasoned farmer and innovator in the field or a careerist politician seeking to climb the government ladder? The latter you'll find in the late Soviet Union, the US today, and many other bloated meritocracies
>>

 No.309673

>>309672
>natural = good
>ignore all the times this was used against the people
Direct democracy only. Ministries should not exist.
>>

 No.309676

>>309673
Ministries that can be gamed in bureaucratic political hellscapes shouldn't exist, yes
>>

 No.309680

>>309602
Blue collar tradesman here, my existence and paychecks piss off every white collar person I know. As a pre-apprentice, I make over $50 an hour on average but I got called a giant loser by my finance friend the other day
>>

 No.309681

>>309673
Yo, you cannot have the tankie flag and be advocating for Direct Democracy. WTF
>>

 No.309682

>>309681
It's what got Stalin and Zhdanov assassinated, idiot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xWeMBXV23g
>>

 No.309687

>>308280
What does this look like in practice? (what will happen to everyone there lol)
>>

 No.309688

>>308161
It will make the rich richer. Inflation freed the common man and gave him agency. Before fiat currency the only way the common man could start a business was to get a loan from a rich man. The gold standard meant that currency gained purchasing power every year as the amount of gold in the world was finite but the number of things to buy kept growing. So one unit of gold could buy more and more "things" every year.

So in order for a common man to get a loan from a rich man the common man had to guarantee a return on investment greater than the steady and reliable increase in purchasing power that gold was experiencing.

After inflation the value of the dollar kept going down every year. In the US if your wealth isn't growing by 6% every year then you are actually getting poorer and poorer every year. Under inflation the wealthy are desperate for investment opportunities. They scramble and compete against each other to get their wealth out of currency and into businesses, cars, houses, art, anything that may retain it's value.

Bitcoin is designed to fight inflation. Nobody can "print" more bitcoin. The number of units of bitcoin is regulated even more than gold. With gold at least people could find a big deposit and the total amount of gold in the world would spike up. With Bitcoin the number of coins is set algorithmically.

Once the wealthy have their coins, they will hoard them. They will save them because they will be worth more next year than they are this year. When the common man needs a loan to start his own business he will again need to guarantee returns greater than the value Bitcoin will increase year over year.

The common man will lose the ability to be his own master and will again be a slave to the wealthy.

Inflation is freedom for the common man.
>>

 No.309693

>>309682
>Stalin and Zhdanov were assassinated.
>FinBol
Your meds sir. Take them.
Stalin's kid claiming he was murdered long after any evidence could have possibly have been obtained is not a primary source.
<"Old men never have strokes!, Old men who are also fall down drunk alcoholics never die!"
>>

 No.309702

>>309681
The fuck are you talking about, soviets are the closest humanity got to direct democracy.
>>

 No.309705

>>309702
I’m more of a vanguard kind of person. Direct Democracy, relying on workers that aren’t class conscious, is a recipe for suicide
>>

 No.309706

File: 1623333599392.jpg (322.67 KB, 1280x898, soycoin.jpg)

>>308225
God I want to see this crash and burn so bad
>>

 No.309830

>>309706
>soycoin
>>

 No.310709

>>

 No.310711

>>309705
political participation is the only way to achieve class conciousness
>>

 No.310718

>>309680
What's your trade? I want to know because I got pushed into the white collar world by my petit-bouj parents who look down on people like you and I need an out
>>

 No.310731

>>309706
The Xrp one is killing me
>>

 No.310750

Shitloads of drug trafficking by the CIA and probably special forces, jsoc and navy seals etc
>>

 No.310753

>>308280
This is something I hadn’t thought of, could be the literal end goal of Bitcoin, the ultimate fuckery for the third world. Ancap paradise while the first world bans it
>>

 No.311197

>>310753
That's a lot of electricity generated that could then go to more social ends in those states once they also ban it
>>

 No.311214

>>308161
If you do not allow the government or corporations control of the money, the people will have more power. This will provide no issues.
>>

 No.311231

File: 1623377145036.gif (624.51 KB, 326x326, activates almonds.gif)

Can I use Salvadorian immigrants as currency
>>

 No.311236

>>309688

Sounds like the solution is to switch to more of a Islamic bank style of banking.
>>

 No.311262

>>308280

They don't have their own currency, they use the USD. They are going to use Bitcoin in addition to USD, not in place of it.
>>

 No.311458

https://www.reuters.com/article/el-salvador-bitcoin-imf-idUSL2N2NS1PB
>IMF sees legal, economic issues with El Salvador bitcoin move
IMF doesn't like it might be good then
>>

 No.311569

>>311231
yes,13 yo girl is 5/hour 13 yo boy is 10/hour
>>

 No.311668

>>310753
Currency is a system of control like what do you expect famalam. In this case maintaining local bourgeois power exceeds the returns generated from allowing domestic inflationary growth, because like many small countries they are in a colonial relationship with first-world /American capital.
>>

 No.312367

>>309054
You've just revealed your absolute lack of knowledge of how Bitcoin works. Do commietards know anything about economics or do you all just make this shit up in your heads to suit your retarded rhetoric?
>>

 No.312384

>>309062
Nah. Not really 'support' mild interest. And critical to the edge of opposing him.
>>

 No.312389

>>312384
cont.
What I know is that he wanted to jail a town mayor, but the OAS wanted to free him. He is fighting back Almagro.
HOWEVER, almost all of his campaign advisors are right-wingers, even some of them are direct members of the guaidont Narnian "cabinet", and some of them are in the ministerial cabinet of Bukele.
>>

 No.312435

>>312367
>buy my overpriced tulips!
>>

 No.312477

>>309054
>a government coontrols the bitcoin because they decided to adopt it as legal tender
>the more a legal tender a cryptocurrency is, the more the government controls the cryptocurrency.
t. Wichard Rolff
>>312435
This is the part of speculative capitalism, but you are ignoring some key things that are important in the fintech, that is way above the control of western imperialism.
>>

 No.312594

>>311236
Is this a joke I didn't get or does Islam actually defines a different banking system?
>>

 No.312608

I thought leftypol would be the one place where I would be safe from Bitcoin.
>>

 No.312610

>>311236
Fuck off islamist. You are not welcome here.
>>

 No.312646

Aight now that El Salvador is gonna have bitcoins as legal tender when do they legalize child slavery to go along with it
>>

 No.312682

>>312477
bitcoin isn't being controlled by governments, it's being co opted into said bourgeois governance schemes, thus proving that it's not actually a threat to statism, globalism, or any powers that be.
>>

 No.312686

>>312594

Yeah, it's different and not inherently islam related. Not based on debt/credit.
>>

 No.313044


>>312682
> it's being co opted into said bourgeois governance schemes
In my case, I have never say that the same things happening under capitalism to fiats aren't happening, like speculation.
The difference is that adds some new attributes that a fiat can't.
>>

 No.313052

>>312608
t. newfriend.
Howdy and welcome, fellow new-comrade. Hope you don't get too annoyed about cryptocurrencies
>>

 No.314745

>>311236
Islam has the exact same problem made worse. The rich man's money gains value year over year but he can't even charge interest for loaning it out, so there is no reason whatsoever to lend money to people who need it.

Gold backed and no interest is the perfect recipe for class stagnation. If you are born poor you will stay poor for all time and generations.
>>

 No.314751

>>308225
Bukelel looks like a freak
>>

 No.314833

>musk tweets ebin meme about bitcoin
>pajeets sell
>el salvador in crisis

Lmao
>>

 No.314836

File: 1623535822372.jpeg (9.05 KB, 155x326, images (12).jpeg)

>>309673
>Direct democracy
How about no
>>

 No.314839

>>314745
>>312686
Tbh I heard Muslims just hired non-Muslims to make the loans, so they didn't even solve anything. Return to Mesopotamian banking.
>>

 No.316777

So this guy (crypto observer) seems to suggest this is a – rather obvious – criminal operation by Bukele's gang to loot the country's dollar reserves by converting it into bitcoin through an intermediary payment system:

https://davidgerard.co.uk/blockchain/2021/06/11/el-salvador-passes-its-bitcoin-law-and-its-a-tether-scam/
>>

 No.316782

>>309673
>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO EVERYONE NEEDS TO HAVE THEIR FEEFEE'S MADE VALID AT ALL TIMES.
At most enterprises or in most locals most decisions are pretty much already guided by necessity anyway
>>

 No.316830

>>316782
>>314836
Reactionaries out.
>>

 No.329536

File: 1624280569350.jpg (227.82 KB, 489x611, 20210621_095947.jpg)

Youtuber gets charged 5usd +10.5% to exchange 20usd of crypto (he gets 13 for 20)

<Pure right wing grift


Sauce: https://apopaonline.com/200621-i3a/?amp
>>

 No.329540

>>329536
What do you mean? That's the future right there kid.
>>

 No.329745

>>308161
What about VAT? Is it calculated relative to dollar or something? Anyway, I suppose whales can now buy the whole fucking Salvador?
>>

 No.329761

>>308225
Bitcoin is terrible for money laundering… try again
>>

 No.329776

>>329745
They are using USDt for conversion….
>>

 No.329814

These shitcoins, why are they so fuckin huge? Monero ledger is something like 100Gb, no wonder you need new shitcoin every couple of years.

Unique IPs: 53

[Return][Go to top] [Catalog] | [Home][Post a Reply]
Delete Post [ ]
[ overboard / sfw / alt / cytube] [ leftypol / b / hobby / tech / edu / games / anime / music ] [ meta ] [ GET / ref]