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"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1608813110252.png (50.08 KB, 200x173, t_048720e9f09ce09098fc5c9c….png)

 No.31021[Last 50 Posts]

READING
http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book/
For a complete reading list, see: https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2020/05/01/two-reading-lists/

Cockshott's Patreon
https://www.patreon.com/williamCockshott/

Cockshott's youtube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVBfIU1_zO-P_R9keEGdDHQ

Cockshott's Blogs
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/
http://paulcockshott.co.uk/

Cockshott's videos torrent archive
Here's the torrent with all of Paul Cockshott's YouTube channel videos up to 27/10/2020 (i.e. Eliminating inequality):
Magnet link:
magnet:?xt=urn:btih:d5e5cc7a91228fef2ea213f816b27cfea8185961&dn=Paul%5FCockshott%5F%28October%5F27th%5F2020%29&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.opentrackr.org%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.to%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2F9.rarbg.me%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.internetwarriors.net%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.leechers-paradise.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.cyberia.is%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fexodus.desync.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fexplodie.org%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fp4p.arenabg.ch%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Ftracker1.itzmx.com%3A8080%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker3.itzmx.com%3A6961%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.zerobytes.xyz%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.tiny-vps.com%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.ds.is%3A6969%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.stealth.si%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fopen.demonii.si%3A1337%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.torrent.eu.org%3A451%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Fretracker.lanta-net.ru%3A2710%2Fannounce&tr=http%3A%2F%2Fopen.acgnxtracker.com%3A80%2Fannounce&tr=udp%3A%2F%2Ftracker.moeking.me%3A6969%2Fannounce
Torrent file:
https://anonymousfiles.io/RileL0Sn/

This thread is for the discussion of cybersocialism, the planning of the socialist economy by computerized means, including discussions of related topics and of course the great immortal scientist himself, WILLIAM PAUL COCKSHOTT.

Archives of previous thread
https://archive.is/uNCEY
https://web.archive.org/web/20201218152831/https://bunkerchan.xyz/leftypol/res/997358.html
>>

 No.31023

File: 1608813339787.png (624.38 KB, 1031x675, Em1DdfwXIAAaof6.png)

>>31021
based
>>

 No.31116

>>31021
thanks for remaking this anon
>>

 No.31125

We should start a towards a new socialism reading group for the newbies.
>>

 No.31144

File: 1608841619110.jpg (19.42 KB, 303x270, feline_superioirity.jpg)

Ahem,
FUCK HEGEL

>>31125
It would be also interesting if we could talk about actual spreadsheet / source code implementations of economic planning professor Cockshott shared during youtube lecture. I tried my best to watch his lectures but honestly they were not that easy to follow
>>

 No.31146

can we post pdfs yet?
>>

 No.31157

>>31144
Bitch, when I'm less busy I'll bust your bussy open and make you feel things you didn't think were possible, after which you'll be a converted hegelian marxist as Marx, Engels, and Lenin were.
>>

 No.31158

>>31157
Mao and Althusser were anti Hegel and Post Hegel
>>

 No.31161

>>31158
>Anti hegel
Pro dogmatism, anti learning.
>Post hegel
I wish. We're stuck with hegel for now.
>>

 No.31164

File: 1608844870725.jpg (7.2 KB, 225x225, Deleuze_guatarri.jpg)

>>31161
what the fuck did you say to us you little fucking bitch???
>>

 No.31168

>>31021
based and socpilled
>>

 No.31170

>>31164
Good luck trying to deterritorialize anything when I've pissed everywhere and everything is now my property.
>>

 No.31445

File: 1608921068035.jpg (167.04 KB, 1280x800, screenshot1_edit.jpg)

im continuing working on my resource-based economy simulator (not exactly cockshottian but it is close, just different approach, eventually cockshottian planner/optimizations can be added)

i didn't progress alot but i made refactoring, and now you can load to the simulation more complex things from soviet economy

heres the test definition of Tatra 148 (simple model, analytical), that could be loaded to the simulation (now from .jsonnet/.json definitions too, not only the API)

that i added:
- jsonnet support for economic sets and objects definition
- multiple sets can be now simulated relatively painlessly (before it was impossible)
- soviet set is WIP (soviet set was the original set, but it was disabled in favor of 'medieval' test set)
- i plan now to add more soviet data and more complex models and maybe some production / processing chains (that i already tried so simulate one way or another)

definitions can be actually extremely simple yet relatively powerful,
and for hi-def defs/models i also plan to do some work to support them (some of it is WIP, like multipart objects / multi-object models)

later i could add the Industrial Catalogues and maybe voxel editor for models, but its rather distant
>>

 No.31446

File: 1608921429448.png (279.42 KB, 1000x5145, Untitled.png)

this is a very rough overview of industrial catalogues

they were unironically used in SU and probably other countries with industrial economy too, they simplify the design and production / parts reuse
>>

 No.31447

>>31445
based anon keep up the good work
>>

 No.31450

>>31445
>>31446
btw i took some ideas from this new cockshottian simulation language / DSL (domain specific language), that he released recently (see his blog)
>>

 No.33046

>>

 No.33050

>>31450
Link plz?
>>

 No.33064

>>33046
https://paulcockshott.wordpress.com/2020/03/08/initial-release-economic-plan-language/

not sure is the github link is still correct:
https://github.com/wc22m/ukgreen

he had some of his code at sourceforge normally (in svn)
>>

 No.33065

>>

 No.33178

>>33046
thanks anon
>>

 No.33276

>>33046
so hes basically saying imperialism isnt a thing anymore and third worldism is BTFO
>>

 No.33287

>>33276
Doesn't imply imperialism is ogre as such only that developed world proles don't get a cut of the superprofits
>>33064
Ty muchly
>>

 No.33341

>>33276
Nah, he's saying that imperialism acts via underdevelopment and coercion and not via unequal exchange.
>>

 No.33597

>>

 No.33603

>>33597
based thanks anon, i will watch it now
>>

 No.33605

>>33603
TL;DW: "third worldist" shitposted on CK's latest video, boomer CK took it seriously, found further empirical evidence that BTFO's "thirld wordists" even further.

Kinda amusing and cringe at the same time while more empirical evidence is shown.
>>

 No.33607

>>33605
>>33605
We should get Jason to sitdown with cockshott
>>

 No.33611

>>33607
that would be a massacre
>>

 No.33613

>>33607
Did jason debate vaush already? I can't remeber but it sound like a lulzy idea.
>>

 No.33626

File: 1609375186943.jpg (39.08 KB, 600x631, 5a8821df44078d7efe390d1245….jpg)

>>33605
>>33607
>>33611
>>33613
Jason is turning cringe, I wouldn't want to subject the old man to that
>>

 No.33673

File: 1609384413222.png (452.57 KB, 1700x1490, economicplan.png)

Image I had previously made. Added a link to this place to help boost the numbers. It's helped in some situations with ancaps before.
>>

 No.33753

File: 1609414959057.gif (2.69 MB, 195x258, cockshott.gif)

>>33673
Nice job anon.
>>

 No.33867

>>33753
is that OC? bretty good anon
>>

 No.36312

Someone upload Cockshott's books plz?
>>

 No.36314

File: 1609858997126-0.pdf (914.25 KB, W. Paul Cockshott, Allin F….pdf)

File: 1609858997126-1.pdf (3.98 MB, [Routledge Advances in Exp….pdf)

File: 1609858997126-2.pdf (6.34 MB, [Springer Professional Com….pdf)

>>

 No.36315

File: 1609859085354-0.epub (8.85 MB, Paul Cockshott - How the ….epub)

File: 1609859085354-1.epub (22.34 MB, Paul Cockshott, Lewis M M….epub)

>>

 No.36319

>>36315
NTA but thanks
>>

 No.39831

>>

 No.40592

>>39831
is this the pascal programming one?

its good but cockshott has to realize no one uses pascal anymore
>>

 No.40630

>>40592
You'd be surprised
Delphi still sells for thousands of dollars
>>

 No.40714

>>39831
so basically, you have to write modern software to take advantage of cache and memory hierarchies in general. good to see this lesson repeated by him, it's something all programmers should keep in mind.
>>

 No.40715

>>40592
pascal is very easy to use and learn though, and he's comparing modern PLs to their custom Pascal for a specific purpose. software performance is a very important issue.
>>

 No.40718

I'm definitely not posting in the bunkerch cockshott thread anymore, since it could all get wiped again.
>>

 No.40794

File: 1610219975120.png (62.38 KB, 490x276, dlc_theme_Antarctic.png)

>>40592
Hedgewars is written in pascal iirc
http://www.hedgewars.org
>>

 No.40803

File: 1610220588858-0.jpg (147.91 KB, 350x535, 9780367754785.jpg)

File: 1610220588858-1.pdf (157.07 KB, computersimulationexperime….pdf)

New economic planning book coming in May 31, 2021:
https://www.routledge.com/Democratic-Economic-Planning/Hahnel/p/book/9781032003320

.pdf is a recent presentation by the authors hosted by the Union for Radical Political Economics (URPE).
>Robin Hahnel and Mitchell Szczepanczyk presented the results of their innovative attempt to model democratic annual planning in a post-capitalist economy. ComputerSimulationExperimentsOfParti_powerpoint Through iterative computer simulations of the planning process from local to central level and back, using a new computer coding technique, they found that it would not take a long at all to reach a feasible and practical annual plan to meet social needs with available resources which involved the participation and democratic decisions of people.

>This was another compelling refutation of the critique made by neoclassical pro-market theorists like Von Mises and Hayek; and Keynesian pro-market social democrats like Alec Nove who argued that socialist planning was infeasible because there were just too many calculations to make. Only the invisible hand of the market and market pricing could do this. This paper showed that this was not true, especially now with the advances in computer programming. Democratic socialist planning can work and can replace market chaos.

The pdf includes links to the source code. Can a techie check it out and tell us if it's gooode? Also, will anyone preorder (and upload the full book here)?
>>

 No.41177

>>40803
Hyped to see mounting evidence in our favour.
Waiting for Dickblast's next book.
>>

 No.41191

>>41177
I'm hyped about shilling this book to Cockbang and ask for his response.
>>

 No.41481

File: 1610324925901.pdf (617.38 KB, 67x118, KCI_FI002567804.pdf)

Since this is /econ/omics general anyway, might as well upload Michael Roberts' review of Classical Political Economics and Modern Capitalism: Theories of Value, Competition and Trade (Tsoulfidis, Tsaliki) which he called the most important book of that year.
>>

 No.41549

File: 1610329563231.pdf (9.67 MB, 67x118, Lefteris Tsoulfidis, Perse….pdf)

>>41481
the book in question
>>

 No.41568

>>41481
Thank you for the PDFs anon.

On a sidd note, I generally see the /crisis/ thread as the econ thread.
>>

 No.43967

>>41568
/crisis/ is to econ what /usapol/ is to theory
>>

 No.44259

File: 1610533705648.png (188.68 KB, 1204x602, Screenshot 2021-01-13 at 1….png)

What do people think of cordelia's critiques of Cockshott?
>>

 No.44335

>>44259
yet another rando twitter schizo-pseud who half reads enough theory to sound smart to normies. Beneath Cockshott's time and energy to respond tbh
>>

 No.44344

>>43967
kek,so true
>>

 No.44359

>>44259
>Asimov's Laws
He better fucking not, those were written SPECIFICALLY to highlight how such laws would fail.
>>

 No.44389

>>44259
what book is he talking about?
>>

 No.44429

>>44259
This thread is not for this nonsense. Ask that person for citations. Do it on Twitter and not here.
>>

 No.44511

>>44259
We talked about it one year ago in this very general. Stop posting your own shit here. Someone calculated that you posted about 20 times every waking hour since you made that account when that image first came out. Fucking schizo hiding behind strawmen
>>

 No.45240

>>44259
cordelia i sincerely hope you die
>>

 No.45367

NEW COCKSHOTT VIDEO : Socialist planning and the environment crisis
Running time: 1 Hour and 53 minutes
Prepare to be blasted!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Thv6_ZL3ds
>>

 No.45472

>>45367
OH SHIT
>>

 No.45646

LEL
Cockshott commented in the last Caleb Maupin video. Even he has to bow down in front of Caleb's intellectual might!
>>

 No.45653

File: 1610667219720.png (17.32 KB, 713x140, 1.png)

>>45646
Heh, it's true. The next economics lecture of Cockshot to be disrupted will be done by antifa this time.
>>

 No.45657

>>45646
>>45653
It's a pretty big no-no off here (and sometimes on here) but a lot of fascists are easier to flip than, say, committed Democrats.
No, I have never been a fascist
>>

 No.45677

>>45657
I don't object to trying to convert Trumpists but I do object to ass patting them and saying 'you're right, the liberals are the real fascists and probably pizza party pedos too :)'
>>

 No.45682

>>45657
what makes a fascist better? you mean how they want to kill you and say it openly rather than do it smoothly with a drone strike and pretend it didn't happen?
fuck you are retarded
>>

 No.45683

>>45657
>never been a fascist
just a bootlicker, huh?
>>

 No.45688

>>45653
holy fuck this is real
>>

 No.45693

>>45683
>>45682
The dumbo has arrived.
>>

 No.45859

>>45677
No, obviously I'd never say that. The sort of people that believe shit like "Antifa are the real fascists" are so lacking in political consciousness you may as well start from scratch rather than humoring them. I'm talking about actual fascists, at least the poor ones.
>>45682
The grunts of fascism, the lumpens and proles, have Noticed a serious problem with society and instead of identifying it properly have misplaced it onto various national and ethnic spooks. If you can show them that the nation has never really had their best interests at heart and actually works towards the interests of the bourgeoisie they are much easier to flip than liberals who think the issue is merely an aesthetic lack of civility and people like Trump who are causing a ruckus in their well oiled machine of benevolence, just to do a racism.
>>45683
I am pro-class war. I want the lower classes to have the same solidarity that the upper classes have.
>>

 No.45869

>>45657
Depends which type. Do you mean generic fascism, National Socialism (lots of reaction to modernism), or modern /pol/ """fascism""" (kill niggers jews and LGBT, trad life, what is theory)?
i dont actually know much about fascism lol
There are easy targets like naive teenage "SJW cringe compilation" alt-right types who think leftism is aposematic cancel-culture tumblr troll-bait.
>>

 No.45873

>>45869
Well pigeonholing them is a bit silly because as you no doubt know on the left people wear ideologies like they do a pair of underwear, and the rightoids do it too. You have to take it on a case by case basis.
Like even back in the day the Italian fascists were way more chill than the Nazis, who were pretty much always psychotic retards. Most fascists nowadays are more like the Nazis, but the clueless types among them (the majority) are the targets to flip because they're just generally mad about the present state of things. Their gripes are typically:
<Wages are going down, immigrants are lowering them
<House pricing is going up, immigrants are occupying them
<Taxes are going up: Israel, Africans, international orgs are guzzling the money down, we're buying out Jewish corporations
<The white community is being destroyed: People are being forced to move to cities to find work, where monopolisation is happening, and these multicultural hubs are nefarious machinations, not the result of capitalism
<Our religion is being threatened/our morals are under attack/everyone is on drugs now/everyone is gay: Nobody cares about the morality of the old world because neoliberalism saw it as a boundary to profit (even though the morals were retarded, the observation is correct)

This is very easy bread and butter socialist politics, we can appeal to these people.
>>

 No.45877

>fascist workers
imagine being this retarded
angloids need to be nuked
>>

 No.45881

>>45873
>[pigeonholing]. You have to take it on a case by case basis.
I completely agree. I was trying to point out the difference between a well-read nationalist theoryfag who cares about states instead of da joos bullshit, and people who cling to cherrypicked and misinterpreted statistics to prove race is a great universal prediction technique.

>>45877
no u
>>

 No.45887

>>45881
Yeah race science people are pretty far down the rabbit hole, but luckily the science is very flimsy and is one of the easier things to attack. The JQ is probably one of the more difficult conversion points because Jews made media careers their thing after the whole ordeal in Europe and Israel has successfully bought out most US politicians. Pointing out that the Irish also have ridiculous amounts of influence in the media because of Euro(Anglo) antics is probably the dumbest fucking strategy in politics but is equally true. I mean, Biden is a direct result of that.
As for nationalism, it's pretty dumb but as a bong I can see why it's used. Here we're faced with a deeply entrenched aristocratic bourgeoisie that control every element of government, we're just as much of a post-KGB autocracy as Russia, but without the consciousness to inform the population that the country has been stolen from them. That's why groups like the SNP, Plaid, and NIP constantly whip up nationalism, to detach themselves from the monsters in Westminster. I doubt many of them seriously care about the concept of a nation.
>>

 No.45918

>>44259
>probably the single most computer science brain stuff ive ever seen. if he were 30 yrs younger he'd be eliezer yudkowsky
this is just mean… as out-of-his-depth as he is in Classical Econophysics the man has at least (presumably?) made some serious contributions to computer science.
>>

 No.45937

>>44259
>grep -R 'html' ~/Documents/cockshott
>
???
>>

 No.45939

>>44259
she's talking about Classical Econophysics in that thread also back to /r/programmerhumor with you
>>

 No.45948

NIGGER, which part of
>More germane, when someone has written a program in a ‘high-level’ language like Java or HTML, it must then be compiled into the very low level machine code instructions that are executed automatically by a computer’s central processing unit (CPU). Now, a compiler is itself a program, and the first compilers for high level languages were necessarily written using low level instructions. However,once there is just one compiler for a high-level language, it becomes possible to write many other programs in that language, including other compilers, including compilers for that language itself!
implies HyperText Markup Language is Turing complete?
HTML accompanying CSS3 is Turing complete http://eli.fox-epste.in/rule110-full.html
>>

 No.45951

>>45948
Lol, so I suppose unlike /r/programmerhumor this site fills the niche of tolerating freshman CS command line utility jokes as well as the word "nigger."
>>

 No.45954

>>45951
We also hold the political space of "I told you so"
>>

 No.46143

>>45367
I liked the part where that lukewarm reformist said "Oh, okay, I'm gonna read Cockshott's TaNS".
>>

 No.46145

File: 1610724165263.png (66.2 KB, 769x363, 1.png)

>>45869
TIL a new word
>>

 No.46719

File: 1610765067525.png (21.78 KB, 554x235, 2.png)

lel, I only wanted to make a post here, yet I successfully created a new thread…

I am dumb, plz forgive: >>46718
>>

 No.46732

>>46145
It's a nice one, I admit I have to search it up each time I use it.
It's fun for describing the stereotypical aggressive dyed-hair idpol SJWs that live in /pol/'s head.
>>

 No.46764

>>46719
Users are not allowed to delete threads to avoid someone nuking a thread with many replies just because they feel like it. I deleted it because I'm a retard who is so used to scabchan shitty mod tools that I had forgotten I had the ability to move your post here. Sorry, you can repost it here.
>>

 No.49059

>>44429
>>44511

I am not Cordelia. I did not see the thread at the time. I was looking for responses to her critique.
>>

 No.49068

File: 1610893736930-0.pdf (1.24 MB, 67x118, 2020DapprichPhD.pdf)

File: 1610893736930-1.jpeg (8.32 KB, 297x170, download.jpeg)

Anyone heard of this guy? Jan Philipp Dapprich

Cockshott namedropped him as his "ultimate PHD student" in his latest vid. Doctoral thesis seems to be related to continuing cockshott's work
>>

 No.49212

>>49068
hes a kraut FYI (afaik)
>>

 No.49254

>>49068
We already discussed his stuff a bit in the cybernetics threads on 8ch (2019) and on bunker (2020). Very similar views to Cockshott. Here's an interview with him: https://www.futurehistories.today/episoden-blog/s01e19-jan-philipp-dapprich (in German). I haven't read his PhD thesis yet.
>>

 No.49335

>>49068
I knew this guy actually. I've spoken to him at my uni. He's real nice.
>>

 No.49356

>>49254
>>49335
Cool. Is he the next generation of cyber-marxist after cockshott?

Apparently he's co-authoring the next book on planning and ecosocialism with Cockshott
>>

 No.50711

>>50710
???
>>

 No.51484

Explain to me why Cockshott isn't a liberal.

From Marx himself:
>Communism is for us not a state of affairs which is to be established, an ideal to which reality [will] have to adjust itself. We call communism the real movement which abolishes the present state of things. The conditions of this movement result from the premises now in existence
>>

 No.51487

>>51484
>proceeds to establish state capitalism again
>>

 No.51494

>>51484
That is a self defeating quote
>>

 No.51495

>>51484
>the premises now in existence
Computers are now in existence
>>

 No.51518

File: 1611071484592.jpg (862.35 KB, 1240x1754, c1f042594e1f23b8acd84cc054….jpg)

>>51484
This argument is a meme/pasta thrown around by illiterate leftcoms

That quote is also misinterpreted as saying "we can't say anything about communism in advance", what it is actually referring to is the utopian socialists like Comte, Owen, etc. who believed that they could create socialism out of some vision they had. Marx points out this is ahistorical, and sees "scientific socialism" and the materialist conception of history as explaining history as a process, and that socialism/communism will be the result of that, in the same flavour as Hegel's historical theory he lays forth in the philosophy of right.

The problem is modern day leftcoms take this (ironically) completely out of historical context. Marx lived before the USSR was a thing, whats idealist is to ignore actual history and actually existing socialism and still pretend that we live in 1916. When Cockshott wrote TANS, it wasn't as some abstract vision he cooked up out of his head, to create socialism where none had existed before. It was a policy paper intended to be applied to the late 1980s USSR. In fact many of the idiosyncrasies to a modern reader of TANS can be explained by this, but I digress. So far from being ahistorical it actually engages in the real history of socialist political movements in the 20th century, unlike the idealist leftcom who is still living in the 19th century. Cockshott is doing the exact same thing as Marx but analyzing the political movements of his day. To quote the man himself,

>21st century Marxism can no longer push to one side the details of how the non-market economy of the future is to be organised. In Marx's day this was permissible, not now. We can not pretend that the 20th century never happened, or that it taught us nothing about socialism. In this task 20th century Western critical Marxists like Cliff, Bettleheim or Bordiga will only take us so far. Whilst they could point out weaknesses of hitherto existing socialism, it did this by comparing it to an ideal standard of what these writers thought that a socialist society should achieve. In retrospect we will see that these trends of thought were a product of the special circumstances of the cold war, a striving for a position of ideological autonomy ‘neither Moscow nor Washington’, rather than a programmatic contribution to Marxism. The very psychological detachment that such writers sought, deflecting from their own heads the calumnies directed at the USSR, prevented them from positively engaging with the problems faced by historically existing socialism. It is only if you envisage being faced with such problems oneself, that one would come up with practical answers


The only way the "Cockshott=utopian" line makes sense is if you ignore the fact that he's actually analyzing 20th century actually existing socialism. Of course, certain leftcoms/trots stick to the line that the USSR was "state capitalist" and therefore socialism has never existed

>Idealist marxists, on the other hand, tend to claim that failure in the Eastern bloc should not count against Marxism, since the Soviet system represented the betrayal rather than the realisation of Marxian ideals. While the social democrats say that Soviet socialism was not the kind of socialism they wanted, these marxists say that the USSR (post-Lenin, perhaps) was not really socialist at all. Social democrats may accept that the Soviet system was indeed Marxist, and they reject Marxism; idealist marxists cling to their theory while claiming that it has not yet been put into practice.


>we reject the idealist view which seeks to preserve the purity of socialist ideals at the cost of disconnecting them from historical reality. We recognise, that is, that the Soviet-type societies were in a significant sense socialist. Of course, they did not represent the materialisation of the ideals of Marx and Engels, or even of Lenin, but then what concrete historical society was ever the incarnation of an Idea? When we use the term `socialism' as a social-scientific concept, to differentiate a specific form of social organisation by virtue of its specific mode of production, we must recognise that socialism is not a Utopia. It is quite unscientific to claim that because the Soviet system was not democratic, therefore it cannot have been socialist, or more generally to build whatever features of society one considers most desirable into the very definition of socialism.


>Our view can be summed up as follows: Soviet society was indeed socialist. This society had many undesirable and problematic features. The problems of Soviet society were in part related to the extremely difficult historical circumstances in which the Bolsheviks set about trying to build socialism, but that is not all: important policy mistakes were made (just as possible in a socialist society as in capitalism), and furthermore the problems of Soviet socialism in part reflect serious weaknesses in classical Marxism itself.


>The failure of the Soviet system is therefore by no means irrelevant to Marxian socialism. We must reflect carefully on the lessons to be learned from this failure. Nonetheless, unlike those who delight in proclaiming the complete historic rout of Marxism, we believe that a different type of socialism – still recognizably Marxian, yet substantially reformulated – is possible. The Soviet Union was socialist, but other forms of Marxian socialism are possible. This claim can be sustained only by spelling out in much more detail than hitherto both the sorts of economic mechanisms and the forms of political constitution which socialists consider both desirable and feasible. This we try to do in the book.


Marx himself, famously also laid out the foundations of socialism in his 'Critique of the Gotha Program', a reading of which Cockshott actually derives TANS from. In fact TANS, arguably, is nothing more but an elaborated version of Marx's 'Critique of the Gotha Program', since the matrix algebra Cockshott explains in TANS is just showing how it is both practical and mathematically/computationally feasible to calculate labor inputs to goods/services as Marx wants. If Cockshott is a 'utopian' for writing TANS, Marx is even more of a utopian for writing 'Critique of the Gotha Program' before socialism of any kind had yet existed. The reality is that neither Marx nor Cockshot are utopian and leftcoms are simply abusing the term out context, the same way that social democrats pick up the term 'reactionary' and throw it around to describe socialists and communists.

Yet leftcoms will continue to "quotemine" Marx and somehow pretend that Cockshott is equivalent to the 19th century utopian socialists like Comte and Owens that Marx was criticizing in that quote. All it does it reveal their lack of understanding of both and Marx and Cockshott, not to mention socialist history.
>>

 No.51543

>>51518
just to follow up, leftcoms are basically the Amish people of leftism, just like the Amish believe its ok to use any technology up until the 1830s and then after that God disapproves, leftcoms believe in analyzing history and drawing conclusions from any part of history up until some nebulous period between Engels death in 1895 and the start of the Russian revolution, after which it is "utopian" to do any analyzing. Essentially the only non utopian form of theory is not what is past and future for us, but only Marx himself. Like Marx is the 'final prophet' of socialism and that after his death all others (except those thinkers they like) are false prophets.

It reminds me of something Engels said,

>The materialist conception of history has a lot of them nowadays, to whom it serves as an excuse for not studying history…But our conception of history is above all a guide to study, not a lever for construction after the manner of the Hegelian. All history must be studied afresh


Where Engels criticizes younger German Marxists who took theory as dogma and used it as an excuse to not do analysis, just taking it as God's truth.
>>

 No.51619

>>51543
>Where Engels criticizes younger German Marxists who took theory as dogma and used it as an excuse to not do analysis, just taking it as God's truth.
Would it help if marxist theory courses taught Marx's method of analysis. I don't know if that exists, so it's 2 questions.
>>

 No.51623

>>

 No.51752

>>51518
>quotemine
"Proof-texting" is what they call that in Christian theology.

>>51543
>who would win?
>Mensheviks
>Mennonites

>>51619
>Marx's method
You'd need to accept his priors, too, which may not correspond to present conditions. Then, it would tend to produce the same theory, the same analysis, and the same irrational reverence for the results.
Many authors have taken Marx's models and adapted/extended them to modern conditions and structures, such as Wallerstein. Their work is valuable, even if they are not part of a "movement". It's better to find what still holds and to what extent (e.g. LTV's quantitative support by Cockshott), and extend those using whatever tools are suited to the task.
>>

 No.52201

>>51623
JPD is underrated, we should start to shill him and Leigh Phillips over Cockshott, both because tons of radlibs think Cockshott is a nazbol, and because he needs to pass the baton to the next generation eventually
>>

 No.52223

>>52201
Neoclassical economics is booj cancer. Just stop.
>>

 No.52237

>>52201
>caring about what radlibs think
>>

 No.52244

>>52223
do jpd or leigh phillips shill neoclassical econ??
>>

 No.52257

>>52244
Yes, the rhetoric in the link upbread is packed with neoliberal jargon and rhetoric. I should have stopped reading at
>opportunity cost
and noped out completely before the barely-concealed austerity fetishism in the last paragraph.
These are the faggots planning the Great Reset for porky.
>>

 No.52307

>>52257
What about peoples republic of walmart and leigh phillps though? AFAIK its just a copy pasta from cockshott?
>>

 No.52460

>>52257
Peoples Republic of Walmart doesn't really go through algorithms and it silly to present it as if it were an alternative vision to TANS or more developed version of that. It is just a little book with the aim of getting absolute noobs to consider the thought that economic planning is a thing that works since it is actually in use in capitalism.
>>

 No.52464

>>52257
>>52460
I meant the JPD link at that designer history think-tank (the very existence of which should be a YUGE red flag)
>>

 No.52507

Gey guys, I'm a humanities fag dropout who wants to develop an understanding of statistics and computer tech in their free time, specifically and solely because I want to better understand cyber socialism. How should I go about developing better mental discipline and STEM understanding when I can't afford college?
>>

 No.52550

>>52507
read free books. using libgen.is

Go to a college website. Check their degree listings. They usually or sometimes have the syllabus for each course publically available online.

Check out the syllabus and the required textbook, then just go to libgen.is and download the latest version of it. Rinse and repeat for every class/book they have on the degree. Now you have 80% of the knowledge of someone who has that degree.

Or just use an "open source degree" guide like this one: https://github.com/ossu/computer-science

there are many others like it on the internet.

For statistics use khan academy or something. Just know for advanced statistics you have to learn calculus and linear algebra first

just take it one step at a time, doing a little bit each day when you have free time
>>

 No.53041

>>52507
>guys, I'm a humanities fag dropout who wants to develop an understanding of statistics and computer tech in their free time, specifically and solely because I want to better understand cyber socialism.
Can you describe your journey towards taking an interest in cyber-socialism.
>>

 No.53142

>>52257
Well ok i guess JPD is bad, we need to find a new young guy to carry on Cockshotts work
>>

 No.53224

>>53142
Any competent junior-mid-level programmer with a strong math background can implement the algorithms based on C&C's literature. I don't know what you need a figurehead for. If you must, Allin Cottrell doesn't look that old.
>>

 No.53235

>>53224
hes the same age as Cockshott afaik
>>

 No.53236

>>53224
yeah, but to advance the theory further
>>

 No.53241

>>52507
you don't need any practical skills for understanding indepth meaning of this (and even people who have it they don't really understand it for the most part)

so better start with the theory, read some classic book (like K&R or w/e (yes even if you don't understand it, you can read the book several times over the time), read something on computer architecture (like wikipedia), and history of computing / technology, then if you want to do practice randomly hack python scripts with whatever you like

you then soon will understand basic elements of computing
>>

 No.53254

>>53236
Why do you need an idol for that?

>>53241
>>52507
You'll need a little bit of advanced math. Set theory and formal logic are a good start.
If you are feeling up to a challenge, Donald Knuth's The Art of Computer Programming, decades in the making and not yet finished, is the computer scientist's Das Kapital.
>>

 No.53724

File: 1611267332765.pdf (101.17 KB, 533x300, Commodityproductionandthes….pdf)

I don't know where to post this.
Cockshott considers philosophical categories of subject and object
>arguably, a considerable dilution of Marxism
>latent idealism
derived from legal systems.
If I read a text do I substitute the word subject with biological person and brain, for a proper materialist interpretation ?
>>

 No.53743

>>53254
you dont need an idol, just a person
>>53254
>knuth
Its also extremely dry
>>

 No.53777

>>53224
>Any competent junior-mid-level programmer with a strong math background can implement the algorithms based on C&C's literature. I don't know what you need a figurehead for.
I agree with both sentences.
>>53724
Methinks Cockshott puts too much weight on word origins. I'm sure there are many Latin medical terms that when literally translated mean something like "this dangly slimy thing". This doesn't mean that modern understanding of medicine is held back by the name not changing. That modern English is a very individualist language and that other languages have changed to be less collectivist is something I believe myself, though again I wouldn't put much weight on the word subject. This doesn't really have anything to do with cybernetics though, so if you want to talk more about it maybe make another thread, "linguistic individualism".
>>

 No.53838

File: 1611275222372.png (224.38 KB, 402x700, 6fc8505db56fc2ed551fcc8f86….png)

>>53724
what a beautiful pdf thumbnail
>>

 No.53897

>>53838
>poljak flipper baby
Kekin qt and invalid
>>

 No.53906

>>53777
Eh true but humanities isn't science nor is it truth
The 17th and 18th century philosophers used and understood subject in that sense as the notion under consideration
The modern academic literature on "the subject" is basically a bunch of barely literate cargo cultists schizoposting in long form pretentious language
>>

 No.53979

File: 1611284998158.png (148.76 KB, 400x416, 318c1999bf9d690a6af5324fac….png)

>>53906
NOOOOO! MUH DELEUZE AND GUITARS
>>

 No.54465

File: 1611340295175.jpg (40.2 KB, 960x540, deluge and guitars.jpg)

>>53979
You can have mine.
Polite sage
>>

 No.58951

File: 1611707337181-0.jpg (175.73 KB, 928x720, mpv-shot0002.jpg)

File: 1611707337181-1.jpg (65.52 KB, 800x450, sad.jpg)

>mfw watching videos about OGAS
>>

 No.59082

>>58951
fucking hell, couldn't pizzaman keep it together for just a decade more and we would have had cybercom irl?
>>

 No.60368

I have a question: couldn't we apply the cybersocialist doctrine cockshott talks about in a network of factories, as an attempt to develop a parallel economy? Maybe "gift" them the software, or sell it to them at a low price
>>

 No.63119

New Cockshott video:
Planning for decarbonisation
>>

 No.64387

File: 1612145323374.png (9.74 KB, 311x70, Screenshot_20210201_030738.png)

Did you /leftypol/?
>>

 No.64391

>>64387
not yet
>>

 No.66788

bump
>>

 No.67256

Help a comrade out!

ITT >>66799 Cockshott is being accused of being a "positivist". I pointed out here >>67159 that he's obviously not one and provided sources here >>67255 …

But I know that he even made a video relying on Badiou's Model book. Care to link that video, plz in that thread?

thx
>>

 No.67308

>>64387
in the process of reading it. Pretty darn interesting
>>

 No.67594

>>64387
Just started reading it today and I've only read up to the chapter about Slave Economies and already it has blown my mind. Especially Cockshott talking about the origins of patriarchal societies. The way the book is structured so far is really intuitive with each chapter naturally segueing into the next.
>>

 No.67659

He's kinda a retard
>>

 No.69089

>>

 No.69134

>>67256
I think someone in this thread well read on cockshott, should make a strong case for cockshott to infrared. They seem like chill people especially after that conversation with a random anon. Shoot them an email or twitter DM.
>>

 No.69148

File: 1612492106795.png (9.32 KB, 205x246, anglo.png)

>>69134
Infrared wouldn't like Cockshott because he's too anglo for them. TBH they've said they dislike Cockshott before, I'm not sure what could be gained by interacting with them since they seem like pseuds at best

The revolution will not be lead by some autist in Michigan, regular ML seems alot better than this schizo shit which is just the Posadism of the 21st century but even more obsure.

I actually hid the infrared thread because I couldn't take the sustained autism, TBH I just assumed most of the people there knew he was an autistic schizo-lolcow and are stanning him for the memes/lulz.

If you take infrared seriously you may have a legit mental problem.

If this infrared bullshit becomes the new meme ideology of leftypol I'm done here.
>>

 No.69154

>>69148
>TBH I just assumed most of the people there knew he was an autistic schizo-lolcow and are stanning him for the memes/lulz.
he reads green text literally and gets triggered. he spent 3 hours arguing strawmans that weren't even targeted toward him
kek
>>

 No.69159

>>69148
Well he streamed today and a random anon challenged him to a debate, the debate quickly turned into a pleasant conversation about theory. I think they don't know a lot about cockshotts position only that they don't agree with we needed computers like today for the Soviet Union.
>>

 No.72033

File: 1612739801092.png (82.18 KB, 619x536, giu.PNG)

Any thoughts on these guys?

http://generalintellectunit.net/
>>

 No.72178

>>72033
been discussed many times before. Seems like an OK podcast, although they never covered Cockshotts work AFAIK
>>

 No.72806

NEW COCKSHOTT VID

Opinions on that?
>>

 No.72829

>>72806
Very decent and also goes into the technical side of things. Your opinion?
>>

 No.72879

>>

 No.72886

>>

 No.73514

File: 1612845773454.mp4 (73.67 MB, 480x360, Against_Von_Mises.mp4)

Against Von Mises
>>

 No.73516

>>73514
SPEAK LOUDER PLEASE
WE CAN'T HEAR YOU IN THE BACK
>>

 No.73517

File: 1612845872191-0.png (158.44 KB, 1242x349, Screenshot_20210209_053927.png)

File: 1612845872191-1.png (357.85 KB, 1343x305, Screenshot_20210209_053829.png)

>>73514
Lel, he is really a boomer, he doesn't realize how far we have come in terms of data storage capacity.
>>

 No.73520

>>73517
Maybe the data needs to be in memory (aka RAM).
>>

 No.73521

>>73520
I'm kind of a dummy with this stuff but wouldn't an SSD work or does it have to be actual RAM?
>>

 No.73522

>>73520
It's weird to refer to RAM as data storage and would the whole matrix really need to be fully loaded at any moment in the memory?
>>

 No.73523

>>73517
>>73520 (me)
Apologies, that is also irrelevant.
>EC2 High Memory instances offer 6, 9, 12, 18, and 24 TB of memory in an instance.
And azure also has competing services.
>>73521
An SSD can't quite replace RAM.
Depends on how it's programmed I guess. I'm not really familiar with cockshott.
>>73522
I'm not familiar with modern techniques regarding matrix manipulations. But sorry, it is evidently irrelevant since 6 TB ram instances are available to the general public anyways.
>>

 No.73525

File: 1612846517807-0.png (38.72 KB, 2164x186, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1612846517807-1.png (31.21 KB, 2590x98, ClipboardImage.png)

>>73523 >>73522 >>73521 >>73520
And these are the prices listed.
So at most it costs:
15 USD an hour
365 days in a year
24 hours in a day
131,400 USD.

Not sure what the context is but this is ridiculously cheap for large scale shit.
>>

 No.73528

>>73520
Not really irrelevant as Cockshott was talking about cost not feasibility but I would be surprised if manipulating matrixes would indeed require the computer to store the whole matrix in memory.
>>73525
Now that's interesting because it took Cockshott ~4 and a half hours to compute a matrix with 10^12 numbers with an HP Z620. I reckon it would be much less with an EC2 instance but even if it's the same length it would only cost ~67$, so however we look at it the price is really a trivial problem.
>>

 No.73529

>>73528
To be clear, Cockshott was explicitly talking about the cost being a barrier for an amateur not a governmental entity of course, but as we have seen that it is not even the case.
>>

 No.73537

File: 1612848691019.png (14.44 KB, 911x74, Screenshot_20210209_063123.png)

>>

 No.73562

>>73537
>>73529
Interesting.
A new server that has 4 TB of RAM will probably cost you upwards of 4k USD.

I have no real knowledge of Cockshott's methods. Perhaps they can be compartmentalized, distributed, or approximated to an acceptable degree.
>>

 No.74442

>>73562
>A new server that has 4 TB of RAM will probably cost you upwards of 4k USD.
is that actually true? 4TB of ram sounds like a fuck ton for $4k
>>

 No.74447

>>64387
finished it like 3 months ago
>>

 No.74451

>>69134
>>69148
Infrared took GentleGinjeet shilling Cockshott on their live stream quite well. Haz has been warmed up to cockshott in the last chat session as well.
>>

 No.77374

File: 1613102336251.jpg (335.92 KB, 1009x800, tenderonies_LO-copy.jpg)

I just started reading Towards a New Socialism as a fairly new socialist. In it Cockshott talks about paying students during their schooling if they are training to be skilled workers (doctors, engineers, etc). He also talks about the labor shortage tax I think it was called (ie paying a higher wage to incentivise workers to enter fields that aren't manned enough). I read further and I don't think he touched on the topic so I thought I'd ask:
Would there be some kind of penalty if a student doesn't pass classes or fails to graduate?
Would the labor shortage tax incentivise teachers to be more lenient in passing students in these fields to prevent said shortages? (I guess this last one doesn't personally affect a teacher individually but rather the pressure could be directed to the board of directors)
I feel like the latter happens alot in capitalism today but honestly I don't have any substantive proof besides personal anecdotes of what I've seen in my schools in the US.

pic unrelated
>>

 No.77393

>>77374
>Would there be some kind of penalty if a student doesn't pass classes or fails to graduate?
I imagine there would have to be, what makes the most sense is simply having to take time off of school to do some other necessary labor.
>Would the labor shortage tax incentivise teachers to be more lenient in passing students in these fields to prevent said shortages? (I guess this last one doesn't personally affect a teacher individually but rather the pressure could be directed to the board of directors)
It's possible, it will be less so since profit is not really a factor, but there may be pressure on poorly performing schools to pass more to save face, at which point you kinda just need a little bit of state oversight to give some form of aid to struggling schools.
>>

 No.77583

Against Hayek's Subjectivism
>>

 No.77588

>>74451
Cockshott is peak "anglomarxism" as I've understood him.
>>

 No.77615

>>77588
You haven't, dickblast is Althusser gang
>>

 No.77667

>>77374
What in the fuck is that image?
>>

 No.77668

>>77374
These questions are kinda boring in that they both go so much into the details of the system and they also don't look like questions that would be resolved in a particularly creative way that requires explaining to somebody who is used to living in capitalism.
>Would there be some kind of penalty if a student doesn't pass classes or fails to graduate?
GULAG There has to be a limit on how much time per decade or so you can keep studying without having positive results to show for it.
>Would the labor shortage tax incentivise teachers to be more lenient in passing students in these fields to prevent said shortages?
Yes. Look at the present. The Covid crisis has led to accelerated graduations in medicine in some places.
>>

 No.77715

>>77588
>>77615
Yeah Cockshott is a 1970s Althusserian or quasi/post-Althusserian advocating a version of structuralism

Its understandable that people think he's a positivist since Structuralism as a school of continental philosophy was often accused of being too close to positivism.

>Philip Noel Pettit (1975) called for an abandoning of "the positivist dream which Lévi-Strauss dreamed for semiology," arguing that semiology is not to be placed among the natural sciences. Cornelius Castoriadis (1975) criticized structuralism as failing to explain symbolic mediation in the social world he viewed structuralism as a variation on the "logicist" theme, arguing that, contrary to what structuralists advocate, language—and symbolic systems in general—cannot be reduced to logical organizations on the basis of the binary logic of oppositions. Critical theorist Jürgen Habermas (1985) accused structuralists… of being positivists…Giddens draws on a range of structuralist themes in his theorizing, he dismisses the structuralist view that the reproduction of social systems is merely "a mechanical outcome."


A quote from Cockshott's "ON ALTHUSSER’S PHILOSOPHY OF THE ENCOUNTER"

>It is because Kauffman and Althusser are both dealing with the same problem, the origin of ordered systems or ordered structures (Kauffman 1993). Kauffman is concerned with auto-catalytic nets and the process of creating cells for the first time as a result of pre-biotic evolution. Althusser is concerned with the process of formation of modes of production, another structured self reproducing system. There is the same problem that once the system exists, it self reproduces, but the components that constitute part of the self reproducing system, the new mode of production, have to arise as a contingent effect of prior history where the self reproducing mechanism is not there


TBH I think the only reason he's accused of being a positivist is because he's british/scottish and there's an stereotype there of being associated with anglo analytic philosophy. If he was a frenchman literally saying the exact same thing I doubt people would be saying he's a "positivist".
>>

 No.78365

Why haven't Cuba, North Korea, etc. implemented cybernetic socialism yet?
>>

 No.78370

>>78365
Cuba is doing market reforms afaik to get out of sanctions.

The norks i believe have already done some cyber reforms though im not sure if they know about Cockshott.
>>

 No.78377

>>78370
Can you link to NK's cyber reforms?
>>

 No.78926

>>77667
It's a piece made by Matt Furie (aka original creator of pepe) and iirc he's vegan so it's probably supposed to be a caricature of the meat industry or something.
>>

 No.78930

>>78370
Can someone write Kim Jong Un an email with a pdf of TANS attached to it? I think this will be Paul's big Breakthrough
>>

 No.79268

>>77583
based vid. Was waiting for this one. the more interesting information theoretic arguments happen in part 2 im thinking
>>

 No.80120

File: 1613327515850.pdf (358.43 KB, 232x300, A Panel Data Approach to P….pdf)

Hello fellow /cyber/toids, has anyone seen this paper yet? It looks pretty gnarly. It argues against cross-sectoral price-value correlations from evidence gathered from 10 OECD countries.
>>

 No.80147

File: 1613328866676.jpg (805.31 KB, 2903x1935, shutterstock_editorial_104….jpg)

I think there should be one office that is up for a traditional bourgeois election even in the context of the sorted cybersocialist democracy, and that should be of a national avatar, someone who is charismatic and makes speeches and wave the bloody shirt for the commune. People need a face to put politics to and put their hopes and frustrations into even if that face is completely powerless and basically a vessel through which the sorted representatives show their will.
>>

 No.80148

>>80147
That's the head of state in many countries, separate from the head of government (the prime minister). In the US the President is largely both.
>>

 No.80149

>>80148
Fair enough
>>

 No.80151

>>77715
Althusser wasn't a structuralist, tho. It's a common miscategorization. He spent his life critiquing the structuralists of his time. Similarly, Badiou in his Theory of Model (which Cockshott cites) says that positivism and structuralism are the two sides of the same coin.
>>

 No.80209

>>80151
Althusser critiques alot of structuralism but he's also still classified as a structuralist
>>

 No.80257

>>80147
So basically an elected court jester?
>>

 No.80269

>>80257
More like the communes' twitter avatar
>>

 No.81871

>>80120
let me guess, its another kliman bootlicker academic that shats on Cockshott/Shaikh
>>

 No.82168

>>81871
Lmao. I mean I haven't found ANYONE who's able to refute this paper so be the change you want to see in the world? The paper circumvents Diaz + Osuna and finds some pretty gnarly and concerning evidence.

I'm a fan of Cockshott's work but this is the only paper I see that manages to beat up Cockshott's claims.
>>

 No.82179

>>82168
well why don't you ask him about it in a video comment or blog comment or something?
>>

 No.82185

File: 1613431370974.png (13.85 KB, 665x129, noseen.PNG)

>>82179
Already emailed him. Also emailed Alan F. Cottrell. No response from Cottrell and Paul Cockshott is utterly clueless on the matter.
>>

 No.82186

>>82185
no idea then. How long ago was this?
>>

 No.82190

File: 1613431756622.png (18.37 KB, 423x304, again.PNG)

>>82186
December 31'st. I asked him for an update two months later yesterday, and got "i not know" as a response.
>>

 No.82193

File: 1613431880173.jpg (39.08 KB, 600x631, 5a8821df44078d7efe390d1245….jpg)

>>82190
We'll wait it out I guess, sometimes these academics take a long ass time to respond, remember Cottrell is a working academic whos teaching classes unlike Cockshott who is retired. Maybe you wanna mail Shaikh too while you're at it ;)

I've mailed academics before and sometimes they haven't responded until like 3-4 months later.

I guess until then econophysics is BTFO??
>>

 No.82194


>>82193

yeah ill probably mail shaikh. I'll also probably post a bait thread on bunkercuck to see if any of those have a solution
>>

 No.82195

>>82194
>bunkercuck

thats mostly polyps afaik but you can try.
>>

 No.82204

>>82195

bait thread created. let's see if they have the wits to deboonk vaona
https://bunkerchan.net/leftypol/res/1322493.html
>>

 No.82214

that reminds me, the reading list should also include some math books cuz most people here aren't just born knowing linear algebra, calculus and statistics
>>

 No.82364

File: 1613440300837.pdf (5.27 MB, 17x300, Guide to Mathematics self-….pdf)

>>

 No.82372

>>82364
looks good, how long do you think self studying all that would take?
>>

 No.82415

>>82372
No one person has read all those books and some of the topics represented are kind of weird. There is enough nonstandard analysis on it that I wonder whether the person composing it spends a little too much time on Wikipedia.
>>

 No.82420

>>82415
IMO a better list would just include basic "engineering/phyiscs math" aka pre-calculus, Calculus, multi variate calculus, linear algebra, and calc-based probability/statistics.

Not sure what abstract algebra, analysis, topology, and geometry are adding here, then again im not a mathematician
>>

 No.82432

>>82420
Those are beautiful subjects. Learning them is its own reward, besides the potential of application. But as far as people for whom the document in question would be legitimately helpful… maybe someone in a low-security prison who has the ability to order a lot of books and wants to apply for graduate school in mathematics when they're released at the end of their decade-long sentence?
>>

 No.82713

Not that it matters, but how would you categorize Cockshott if you had to give him a label in the supermarket of ideologies?
>>

 No.82716

>>82713
something to do with scientific socialism, kinda like what the DPRK does.
>>

 No.82720

Somewhat unrelated, but why is Kliman bad again? I just started to read into Cockshotts work and Kliman seems to be repeatedly mentioned as one of his Critics
>>

 No.82752

>>

 No.82889

>>82713
Heterodox ML maybe. Dunno

He's like a Maoist who got Althusser-pilled who dragged his ideology halfway to De Leonism with Councilcom/leftcom influences.

Probably closer to MLs than any other tendency because he doesn't deny the USSR was socialist, which is why finbol+jason unruhe like him but radlibs generally don't
>>

 No.83091

>>

 No.87777

File: 1613822715250.png (97.64 KB, 704x396, cockshott-crew.png)

CYBERNETIC COMMUNISM BY 2050
>>

 No.88210

>>87777
do you have the webm of that??
>>

 No.93091

Bumping and telling you that /ourguy/ is nearing 9000 subs on Youtube.
>>

 No.93093

File: 1614200052585.gif (900.67 KB, 740x416, 점지.gif)

>>87777
quad of truth
>>

 No.93103

>>93091
He will soon hit the 10k. That day will be a milestone for him
>>

 No.93263

>>93091
based
>>

 No.93630

>>53906
And the Social Sciences? What do you think Marxism is?
>>

 No.93644

File: 1614228951455.jpg (296.17 KB, 1240x1685, ae8ede449a0477946dcb733f3b….jpg)

>>87777
Cheka'd
>>

 No.99925

I was discussing Towards a New Socialism with a friend and he brought up an interesting point. Cockshott and Cottrell's alternative to income inequality between skilled and unskilled labour is to compensate students for their education. My friend said something to the effect of "What's stopping someone from constantly switching courses or arbitrarily taking on more courses", sort of like becoming a career student. You could say that students should be limited to taking only one course, but what if they realize they don't like it and sincerely want to change courses?

Also, Cockshott and Cottrell don't seem to have a good solution to brain drain other than "die mauer". Is emigration to be allowed in this hypothetical new society? If yes, then what ought to be the requirements for a student to emigrate? If no, then what is the justification?
>>

 No.99942

>>99925
Obviously there should be some kind of sensible limit, if you don't show up for classes you get booted, if you do 1 degree already you have to prove your interest in the second field and pass a test of some kind, and as for brain drain, society needs to be good enough that people don't want to leave, if you start trying to ban people from leaving the country then you've already given up on socialism.
>>

 No.99977

>>99942
this, plus brain drain happens in capitalist nations that subsidize education already, one modern example is ireland during the great recession up to like 2013.
>>

 No.99998

why would you listen to a faggot with crooked teeth like that, bitch is too much a coward to go to a dentist, or he thinks showing off his incest heritage is a matter of pride
>>

 No.100054

File: 1614591335039.jpg (13.98 KB, 254x255, 1442669208956.jpg)

>>99998
1. Crooked teeth doesn't make someone wrong unless, thiking that is rightoid tier
2. Pretty sure orthodontia wasn't as widespread when he was young
3. Some people still prefer to keep their natural teeth rather than cut and dig into them to put crowns and bridges
4. Some people would like to replace their teeth but don't have the money for it.
5. I cannot stop taking bait please someone help me.
>>

 No.100427

>>99998
>bitch is too much a coward to go to a dentist
He's British, they all have fucked up teeth, he's still more of a man for taking on dominant ideology than you'll ever be
>>

 No.100464

File: 1614614237554.jpg (23.04 KB, 350x228, derranged-yanke.jpg)

>>99998
He is not an american so he does not have the complex, no, lets call it for what it is, the yanke mental illness that makes him feel the need to have a picture-perfect face.
>>

 No.100482

>>100464
Americans are obsessed with white teeth because it's a part of their personal brand
>>

 No.100495

>>100482
having a personal brand is mental illness.
>>

 No.100498

File: 1614615465874.jpg (254.69 KB, 1162x850, american face.jpg)

>>100495
Well this anon clearly doesn't have a success mindset
>>

 No.100500

>>100498
Disgusting
>>

 No.100592

File: 1614618220595.jpg (Spoiler Image, 165.81 KB, 600x400, spitting_Meryl.jpg)

>>99942
>as for brain drain, society needs to be good enough that people don't want to leave
Honest question, did people leave the DDR because "society" wasn't "good enough"? Cockshott points out that the brain drain was due to income differentials in the West plus a concerted capitalist tactic of bribes. Do you think economic rent in this case is worth the effort? That seems to set a precedent that you are willing to pay off anyone who bitches or moans, and use other people's money to do it. And we all know what Thatcher said about that.
>>

 No.100595

>>100592
There were problems with living in the DDR and we all know it, let's not pretend there's nothing we can do better.
>>

 No.100606

>>100595
>>100595
Sure, I don't think anyone here but the most fanatical will call the DDR a perfect utopia. However it is important to note that people will ALWAYS want to move into richer countries, and the ones with the most education/training will be the most able to leave. The US has been brain draining most of the world not because of its superior policy but because it is a richer nation that people (sometimes falsely) believe will increase the material condition of their life.
>>

 No.100728

>>100595
Yeah women had twice as many orgasms as capitalist societies
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/12/opinion/why-women-had-better-sex-under-socialism.html
ON a serious note the only reason West Germany was wealthy was because of the Mashall Plan
>>

 No.101098

I'm a firm believer that in order to appeal to the people, you first need to prove that the thing you're trying to "sell" works. No, not as in a "economy simulation", we need a real test. People actually making a living in an economically planned society/commune.
I know this has been proposed several times before, but it's absolutely necessary. Any ideas?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micronation#List_of_micronations
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terra_nullius
https://www.twinoaks.org/about-twinoaks-community/faqs-frequently-asked-questions
>>

 No.101791

>>101098
micronations are at best a commune at worst an ancap fantasy. The closest thing would be a small third world nation rebelling and implementing cybersoc
>>

 No.102087

>>101791
>micronations are at best a commune
wouldn't that be enough? a large enough commune can be sort of like a city
>>

 No.102103

>>102087
If the city has access to raw materials it could be enough
>>

 No.103653

>>102103
I don't think any city qualifies for this
>>

 No.103997

>>103653
>>102103
>>102087
A city alone wouldn't work because it wouldn't have agricultural land to produce food. Maybe with enough urban gardening etc. they could get away with a very small, dense urban area, combined with some agricultral land, industrial sector, and nature/park preserved (rewilding)
>>

 No.107032

What happens if we cross Cockshottism with post-autonomist commonism (basically the commons, commoning as a process, the network-, social- and ecological commons? What if we take Cybernetic communism, abstract it to the level of Marxism, incorporate theoretical controbutions from the commonists, but perhaps even recent, specific autonomist concepts like the social production, union and strike? What if we also tie in what seems to be a new return to orthodox Marxist type writings like those of the neo-Marxian economists; like Sweezy, Bellamy Foster who refocuses on accounting for the 'present'' material conditions (as opposed to those of yester century) while also including Lenin's economic developments in regards to imperialism, as well as, at least with Bellamy Foster, a way of tackling the ecological problem as well?

What if cybernetic communism would become the praxis for the industrial and pots-industrial world (which today is most of the world) where Cockshottism, autonomism and neo-Marxian economics and eco-Marxism would be the initial theoretical corpus from which to spring a contemporary praxis?
Could we do that?
>>

 No.108392

>>44259
Cordelia has stated that Cockshott "represents what is basically a reactionary productivism", yet in chapter 6 of TNS he explicitly criticizes the USSR's methods of planning as "a sort of 'productionism'".
>>

 No.108443

>>107032
>post-autonomist commonism (basically the commons, commoning as a process, the network-, social- and ecological commons?
what does any of this mean and why is it different from communism

>>108392
twitter pseud is in fact a pseud, move on
>>

 No.108650

>>107032
sounds based, get on it anon
>>

 No.108673

File: 1615198712118.jpeg (9.57 KB, 300x168, descarga (83).jpeg)

Someone pls teach me calculus or direct me to a good guide/book that will make me a pro in 6 hours. I have a very important exam i'm most likely going to fail
>>

 No.108676

>>108673
Here you go lad
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=calculus+chain+rule
Magic calculus solving sauce
If you have trouble with even this ask more questions and we'll do our best to help you
>>

 No.108680

>>107032
>post-autonomist commonism
>neo-Marxian
>eco-Marxism
jesus, what the fuck are you talking about
>>

 No.109133

>>31445
WOWOWOWOWOOWOWOWOOWOWOWOWOWOWOOWOWOWOWOW
>>

 No.109136

>>108673
I've heard khan academy is good.
>>

 No.109143

>>109136
second khan academy, but theres alot of material so he'd better hurry
>>

 No.109145

patrickjmt also has alot of good video tutorials
>>

 No.109149

>>108673
Not in six hours but I think Spivak's Calculus is a very rigorous and good intro to calculus. However not really for beginners imo unless you're talented. There's also Calculus: An Intuitive and Physical Approach by Morris Kline which is a bit more relevant for engineering applications and is a broad overview.

For you though since you only have 6 hours (even less now):
https://math.libretexts.org/Bookshelves/Calculus/Book%3A_Yet_Another_Calculus_Text__A_Short_Introduction_with_Infinitesimals_(Sloughter)
Just go over as much as you can I guess.
>>

 No.109671

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EcNP2fi2Fk&t=780 TIK says he's waiting for someone to tell him how to solve the calculation problem. Anyone with a YouTube account want to get over there and drop cockshott pill?
>>

 No.109881

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gYrtbpcxreU

anyone seen this vid on economic calculation?
>>

 No.109885

>>109881
apparently the guy who made this also BTFO Jean-Francois Gariépy in a debate?

WTF is this, is it a neoclassical form of socialist calculation similar to lange?
>>

 No.112895

File: 1615415252118-0.png (179.57 KB, 300x300, Cockshott2016.png)

File: 1615415252118-1.png (423.82 KB, 2875x2935, 5f347d008259535aae4e806e94….png)

>>31021
Leftist economics has trended to worker cooperative and market orientated systems in the past few years and with people like Vaush and Richard wolf it seems like it is here to stay how do we stop this or at least create a large enough following of cybersocialism that it doesn't matter?
>>

 No.112911

File: 1615415930897.jpg (42.88 KB, 501x534, 0cd9739ec70a6eae95888cbcdf….jpg)

>>112895
Workers coops will probably be a transitional stage to a planned economy so IMO theres no need to go hard on shitting on them right now.


The reason they are so popular is because

1) Wolff has done a tone of work over the past 10-15 years popularizing them in a Way that Cockshott has not for his work.

2) Workers coops are easy to understand and can be explained using simple moral language while centralized computerized planning's justifications require and understanding of mathematics. This is partly a communication issue.

3) Workers coops dovetail more easily into liberal politics. It doesn't require the abolition of the market, commodities, or really a hugely radical change. Starting worker coops now doesn't even technically require the abolition of capitalism as it can exist side by side with private capitalist businesses.. Several European fascist or fascist-adjacent ideologies like Falangism tolerate and even promote worker coops, in fact even fucking REAGAN supported them. Worker coops can also be justified on moral grounds even if one doesn't buy into a Marxist analysis of political economy, which is why you have a bunch of "anarcho-liberals" who are basically just edgy liberals/socdems who can safely incorporate worker coops into their worldview without acknowledging any of the disturbing, radical, anti-capitalist/anti-market conclusions that would come from a Marxist critique of bourgeois political economy.

4) Just plain ignorance - Cockshott isn't really well known, he should probably do some media appearances on left wing podcasts etc.
>>

 No.112922

Was gonna post this
>>112911
>Workers coops will probably be a transitional stage to a planned economy so IMO theres no need to go hard on shitting on them right now.
Let them get adopted due to popular demand (which seems to be the likely scenario in mega-spooked western countries that lose their senses at the mention of "planned economy"), until they come into severe problems related to the market mechanisms - that's where cybernetics comes in.
>>

 No.113098

>>112895
anectodally, until a good strategy for combatting idpol and lifestylism can be developed cockshotts theories will never be acknowledged because
1. his views on gender arent liberal enough for a lot of people, i'm not a fan of his views too but it really ticks others off and at best they dismiss most of his work because of it (smug lefty syndrome applies)
and 2. stalinboos view his work as revisionism, socdems and anarchists view it as stalinism with computers
other than those 2 its just a matter of discussing his theories, criticizing his flaws and spreading his arguments
also i believe that cockshott praised market socialism as a transitional stage so his theories are compatible with coops
>>

 No.113725

>>113098
>stalinboos view his work as revisionism
why is that?
>>

 No.113907

>>113725
>why is that?
It's wrong most ML have endorsed Cockshott and socialist cybernetics.
>>

 No.116530

>>113725
It literally isn't: most MLs worth their salt endorsed Cockshott's work and the other either ignore it or are ultradengists.
>>

 No.116531

Has someone any news from /ourguy/?
Is he well?
Its three weeks we don't get anything from him sadly and seeing his age i'm getting worried
>>

 No.116634

File: 1615641871885.png (140.09 KB, 449x401, alunya again.png)

Is there a good, short summary of cybersoc that even complete idiots can understand?
>>

 No.116710

>>116634
yeah. Its using computers to run a planned economy and do direct democracy
>>

 No.116712

>>116531
He's gone months with no vids before so I don't see why this is different
>>

 No.116719

>>116712
It isn't.It just came to my mind now tbh.
>>

 No.117021

>>113907
>>116530
MLs are stalinboos?
>>

 No.117026

File: 1615658941455.jpg (188.16 KB, 1538x2325, 718sy5QgB6L.jpg)

>>116634
Yes. This is considered to be introductory reading.
>>

 No.117037

>>117021
All Stalin enthusiasts are MLs but the inverse is not 100% true.
>>

 No.117043

>>116710
so he does nothing new but makes it cool to cry about bourgeois gays on leftypol
>>

 No.117052

>>117037
then do "stalin enthusiasts" support cockshott?
>All Stalin enthusiasts are MLs
why?
>>

 No.117073

>>117043
its new because he uses math to refute the austrian ECP and also elaborates Marx's Gothakritik with technology. Before Cockshott no one really advocated computerized economic planning
>>

 No.117075

>>117052
Usually they do, except the Dengoid (pro Chinese system) ones.
>>

 No.117076

>>117073
> Before Cockshott no one really advocated computerized economic planning
so now that we know that you don't bother reading, how is a faggot with the retarded reading comprehension of a /pol/ack on statistics a reliable source on economic planning?
>>

 No.117077

>>117052
For the all Stalin enthusiasts are MLs part it's because Stalin is the one most demonized figure in history, second only to Hitler maybe
>>

 No.117081

>>117077
the official story is that mao is worse but they still hat stalin more
>>

 No.120850

>>116531
I got an email from him yesterday so he seems to be fine
>>

 No.124699

Is Paul the bigot they make him out to be on Facebook? That he defended Cheka offenses against gay men, transphobic, etc?
>>

 No.124710

What exactly did he say regarding gender?

I could see a thing of rejecting the person, and keeping his work. But that means we can't want him as a leader or an advocate, if he's a bigot.
>>

 No.124712

>>124710
he and his work is entirely unneeded, we have more sound works from back in the day and should orient towards existing projects rather than some computer illiterate old fart making youtube videos who get's memed on an imageboard as the next hot shit after zizek
>>

 No.124716

>>124712
Why so? Doesn't it make sense that computerization makes central planning much more feasible?
>>

 No.124717

>>124716
yes, but this idea is not new and we don't need this dipshit who doesn't even know how to read statistics or set up a homepage
>>

 No.124803

>>124712
what issue did you have with Towards a New Socialism?
>>

 No.124823

>>124712
>we have more sound works from back in the day
such as?
>>

 No.124826

>>124712
>>124710
>>124699
back to >>>/idpol/
>>

 No.124840

>>124826
idpol is when you have any speck of intersectionality, are anything but a class reductionist chauvinist
>>

 No.124843

>>124699
hes a british second wave radical feminist, so he's good on LGB issues but not on the T part afaik. Not uncommon among boomer british feminists but not good also
>>

 No.124857

>>124840
>class reductionist
awful anti-marxist twitter vocabulary
>>

 No.124862

>>124840
>idpol is when you have any speck of intersectionality
Everyone that says intersectionality is invariably about to shit the entire place up with idpol
>>

 No.124863

>>124843
he says just as equally dumb shit about gays
because he is a fucking retard
>>124826
>promotes idpol
>complains when his retarded reactionary idpol is called out for what it is
>"m-muh idpol!"
faggot
>>124823
can't be arsed to try and find sources i bothered 15 years ago with
nobody else seems to give enough of a shit to even read up on the history of cybernetics and planning, so i'm just here to call everyone a retard, i'm pretty much done with "socialism" and all the pretentious faggots it attracts online
>>

 No.124865

>>124863
Okay boomer
>>

 No.124866

cockshott and all his followers are pathetic and just yet another example for why every moment spend reading theory and bothering with socialism is a complete waste of time you will regret
>>

 No.124870

File: 1616039392022.png (157.55 KB, 828x1065, (you).png)

>>

 No.124881

File: 1616040102686.jpg (83.57 KB, 1200x800, Elektronika_MK90.jpg)

Victor Mikhailovich Glushkov wrote a book
Fundamentals of Paperless Informatics
he predicted:
>“Soon enough paper books, newspapers, and magazines will be no more. Every person will have an electronic notebook—a combination of a flat screen and a mini radio transmitter. No matter where you are in the world, if you key a specific code in the notebook, you will be able to summon texts and images from giant remote databases. This will forever replace not only books, newspapers, and magazines, but also television.”

is there a translated version of this book ?
http://www.pseudology.org/science/Glushkov_Osnovy_bezbumazhnoi_informatiki.pdf

pic: prototype of soviet smartphone
>>

 No.124905

>>124881
sounds cool i would be interested in a translated version too

also is anyone aware of a copy of any material from Cybernetics in the Service of Communism?
>>

 No.124914

File: 1616041382464.pdf (739.84 KB, 228x300, Psychological Matters in t….pdf)

>>

 No.124942


>>124914
thank you :D
>>

 No.124951

File: 1616042384501.jpg (33.75 KB, 720x538, 2783ee4a863651ad8ec63836ad….jpg)

>>

 No.125049

>>124823
I'll try and provide the answer that >>124863 won't. beyond the usuals you hear of in here (leontief, kantorovich, glushkov) you might also want to look up stafford beer, otto neurath and andrew pickering

>>124914
cool
>>

 No.125051

>>125049
i almost appreciate your efforts but it is wasted on people that never bothered to look into it themselves and beg to be spoonfed while making grand claims about cockshotts supposed unique way of something "new"
anyways, nice job, i almost don't want to kill myself anymore and have a glimpse of hope
but only almost
>>124865
>>124870
this is the people you are wasting this effort on after all
really, you might as well have just posted gay furry porn and it would have the same effect on these american suburb children
>>

 No.125080

>>124712
cringe

>>124840
stop getting your ideology from Twitter and/or KYS

>>124863
cope
>>

 No.125112

>>125049
if you still don't see what i mean, they just keep going on the same level >>125080

don't waste your time on leftypol, it's a cesspit of /pol/acks that recently found that stalin is based because he outlawed the gay
there is nothing to their leftism, it is entirely meme tier shitflinging
tell them to kill themselves, don't engage in good faith, use your knowledge somewhere where it is appreciated and understood and you will be around people that don't have to be pointed out that something even exists before they feign interest and ask for source when they never even considered to study the topic at hand at their own accord
leftypol like any other burger infested shithole in the internet is only a testament to their education system where schools are only cages to keep the little shits busy while the parents slave away at walmart
completely lost to fascism, write off americans and move on
>>

 No.125140

>>125112
yes, anonymous imageboards aren't a very good discussion tool, especially when they're full of gringos

>use your knowledge somewhere where it is appreciated and understood

this is pretty much what I do already
>>

 No.125214

>>125112
And yet you are still here
>>

 No.125224

File: 1616074366254.jpg (19.61 KB, 311x298, brain balloon.jpg)

>Don't bother with socialism, socialists are stupid, I am the smartest socialist and will not elaborate
>Everyone mocking me is an example of socialists being stupid
>>

 No.125226

>>124863

>nobody else seems to give enough of a shit to even read up on the history of cybernetics and planning, so i'm just here to call everyone a retard, i'm pretty much done with "socialism" and all the pretentious faggots it attracts online


Just drop the necessary texts christ, do a thread on edu and people will read them
>>

 No.125246

>>125140
Yo acprecio lo que estas haciendo anon, y concuerdo contigo que estos lugares son bastante inutiles. Sin embargo he logrado encontrar ciertos usos que no puedo en otros lugares y de vez en cuando encuentro humor tambien
>>

 No.125284

wow what a surprise, the idpol transhuman fucked up all useful conversation in the thread
good job
>>

 No.125395

>>125112
1) Not a burger
2) Bunkerchan was my first board 1 year ago
3) Radlibs such as you are clearly incapable of separating the good and the bad in one's work so it's useless to have a normal conversation with people like you from the very get go.
4) Nobody in my family has ever been to a Walmart, fuck you
>>

 No.125416

>>125246
I actually don't speak taco, I just have a colombian friend whose vocab has rubbed off on me
>>

 No.125537

File: 1616086661218.jpg (22.22 KB, 247x343, Tacolate.jpg)

>>125416
>I actually don't speak taco
Oh you're missing out
>>

 No.125577

I've been listening to some of Ian Wrights stuff and he talks about an interpretation of capitalism as a cybernetic machine. OK, I'm sold, what do I read. I don't care about cybernetic socialism, I want to understand the cybernetics of capitalism.

>>125112
>1 person posting idpol shit
>people pointing out its reactionary retardation
>this is evidence that leftypol is /pol/
>1 idiot is the entirety of /leftypol/
bruh, are you new? If you see bait you don't like, report it.
>>

 No.125616

>>

 No.125624

>>125246
La gente que dice que "ya se perdió todo en leftypol" soon doomers que no están dispuestos a poner de su parte para hacer este lugar mejor. Es una perspectiva de "consumidor" y no de pertenencia a la comunidad.
salu2
>>

 No.125625

>>125577
>cybernetic capitalism
I actually had this idea the other day, that neoliberalism's deferral to the market system with minor tweaks to steer it in the right direction does have shades of cybernetics. but it is quite lacking I think, partly because it's based on the subjective theory of value
>>

 No.125626

>>125577
>bruh, are you new?
That poster is not new. It is that one lowercase poster who always accuses everyone on the board of being secretly /pol/ in the exact same way.
>>

 No.125629

>>125626
Lol, thanks. I can't discern between anons.
>>125625
Check out Ian Wright's videos. He explains how Capital is already a cybernetic system. Really nice shit.
>>

 No.127085

can i get the calculation debate pdf?
>>

 No.127257

File: 1616174370840-0.pdf (256.84 KB, 67x118, Cockshott - Calculation in….pdf)

File: 1616174370840-1.pdf (166.2 KB, 67x118, Cockshott-Cottrell - Calcu….pdf)

>>127085
which one? here's two
>>

 No.127673

>>125629
capitalism is already an inherently cybernetic system from the start due to the self-correcting nature of markets.
it's just that the mechanisms it uses for sensing and the means by which it corrects are damaging and deeply inefficient.
>>

 No.127680

This cybersoc circle jerk seems nothing else but huge cope.
>>

 No.127706

>>127680
what is it coping about/from?
>>

 No.127708

>>127673
>the self-correcting nature of markets.
that has to be satire
>>

 No.127709

>>127680
The only country in the world that would ever entertain the idea of this is North Korea, and they wouldn't allow in any foreign workers, and the few people who even have the necessary technical skills (engineers, developers, mathematicians, etc.) to contribute to such a project already have full-time jobs that pay far better than anything NK could offer. So I agree this is all wasted effort.
>>

 No.127722

>>127680
Right now there are real and existing planned economies with a bigger revenue than the entire GDP of ex-Yugoslavia. The only cope here is market 'socialism'.
>>

 No.128012

>>127708
Markets are a self-correcting system. The problem is that the corrections it makes are often horrific and destructive and serve profit, not general welfare.
>>

 No.128293

>>127673
you mean markets have negative feedback? yeah, no shit. the problem is that the response function of the world market is not stable. it has non-negative poles, as evidenced by it crashing ever 8 years or so
>>

 No.128309

>>128293
I mean, yeah, i said it's a bad system
>>

 No.128313

>>127680
Don't be upset that Cockshott shat on Market Socialism
>>

 No.128999

>>128012
>the corrections it makes are often horrific and destructive
that's a retarded interpretation of correction. Something was wrong (bad) and now it's corrected (good). Horrific and destructive is bad not good.
>>

 No.129027

>>127709
>norks have no engineers
>>

 No.129273

Seriously gonna get a hemorrhoid if another leftist suggests that the TANS model is just "rule by computer". Like, the book seems to outline democratic institutions and an international planning organization, and computers are used solely for communication and calculation.
>>

 No.129309

>>129273
>the book seems to outline democratic institutions and an international planning organization,

>outlining things that grow from the conditions the revolution rises from and will never be the same in 2 places

again, cockshott is an idealistic retard that does absolutely nothing of value to leftism, crying about gays and trans is the sole reason he gets shilled here
rotten teeth faggot that can't even set up a homepage, understand basic marxism or get a grasp on statistics
>>

 No.129313

Well I love the passion of your reply. He does have pretty bad teeth and bad opinions.
>>

 No.129315

>>129309
It seems really silly to suggest you can't model or sketch anything out just because material conditions are definitely gonna change it.
>>

 No.129321

>>129309
>crying about gays and trans is the sole reason he gets shilled here
back to twitter, brah
>>

 No.129325

>>129309
>crying about gays and trans is the sole reason he gets shilled here
It's actually the sole reason dumb faggots like you post ITT
>>

 No.129327

>>129315
>It is really silly to suggest you can model or sketch anything out when material conditions are definitely gonna change it.
ftfy
>>129321
>>129325
i called him a retarded idealist for all the other retarded shit he does, because he is all around retarded as shit
but keep coping
you jumping on only this part of the response shows where your interest lies
>>

 No.129328

>>129309
Great take. We can't have ideas.
>>

 No.129329

rotten tooth faggots book is nothing but autistic fantasy pretending to be something new while the only original content is wrapping banalities up in idealistic bullshit to entertain people who like to fantasize about what their socialism should look like rather than analyzing what it necessary would become
>>

 No.129330

>>129327
>you jumping on only this part of the response shows where your interest lies
Actually jumped on it because I've noticed for the second day running there are seething retards sperging about idpol ITT
There's nothing else to address in your post because you are brain dead
>>

 No.129332

>>129328
try having a thought instead
>>129330
keep seething whiney little idpol bitch
go join that frog faggots thread, you seem to fit there better
>>

 No.129335

>>129332
>implying you aren't the same person tarding out in all the threads because nobody thinks you're smart enough to talk to
>>

 No.129345

Cockshot's cyber socialism is a solid addition to Marxist theory and TANS is a must read for any socialist that wants to implement socialism in the 21st century. Pay no attention to the dental hydrogen peroxide salesman.
>>

 No.129349

>>129345
Yeah, I definitely don't agree with everything in this book, but it seems to have some nice things to offer.

People rag on about how he didn't invent the idea of computerized planning, and duh! but he seems to have been one of the first few people to put it on paper, all collected in one place and suitable as a primer or reference.
>>

 No.129369

>>127722
Where?
>>

 No.129379

>>129335
>nobody talks to you
>it replied triggeredly
i'm not posting anywhere else, but interesting you think i am the same person shitting on you there you absolutely obsessed schizo faggot
>>

 No.129381

>>129349
>one of the first few people to put it on paper, all collected in one place and suitable as a primer or reference
learn german and walk into an east german library
>>

 No.129390

>>129381
Go ahead and translate some East German planning works then. You would be contributing to the cause
>>

 No.129396

>>129379
It's actually more because there are two retards who started sperging at the same time and stopped sperging at the same time, maybe you just synced your periods or something.
>>

 No.129655

>>128999
The corrections are in fact corrections because the market and capitalism are both designed to maximize profit. Said corrections do not take into account plenty of other things, like whether said profit involves human suffering or not. Capitalism, as a designed system, accurately fulfils its designated objective. The problem here was that the analysis was bad: increasing material wealth through a profit driven system did not achieve the goals of the Enlightenment and other revolutions, but it did successfully do what it was designed for.

Saying that it's doing things that are wrong leaves open the interpreteation that capitalism can be fixed in a way that it doesn't produce these problems. Saying that capitalism is working correctly and still produces these horrific results is saying that capitalism needs to be replaced and there is no way to fix it.
>>

 No.132699

>>

 No.132701

>>132699
C H I L D R E N S C H A N N E L
H
I
L
D
R
E
N
S

C
H
A
N
N
E
L
>>

 No.132712

>>129390
>contributing to the cause
you'd have to hit me really hard on the head to be dumb enough to think that it's worth the effort
as long as i don't have some dipshit meme face to go with it nobody will care
people only even read zizek because "trash can funny"
fuck leftism
>>

 No.132750

>>132712
>as long as i don't have some dipshit meme face to go with it nobody will care
>people only even read zizek because "trash can funny"
Sounds like a problem with yourself. get better friends.
>>

 No.132792

>>132712
leftypol isn't your blog anon
>>

 No.133001

Improved the audio quality of cockshott's new video.

https://youtu.be/_qVnDL4VF_M
>>

 No.133035

Stop replying to the schizo cyberanons
>>

 No.133129

Let's start a gofundme or something to buy Cockshott a good mic+recording equipment.
>>

 No.133162

>>133129
It's not his mic it's his editing if you go in audacity and do some basic clean up (noise reduction, compression, normalizing etc.) It sounds fine.
>>

 No.133188

>>133162
Cockshott just needs Audacity and some mixing lessons. A scientist like him could learn that shit in a week, I don't know why he hasn't yet.
>>

 No.133232

Why follow meme cybersocialism and not something established and proven like socialism with Chinese characteristics?
>>

 No.133235

>>133232
>Why striving to have sex with real people when you could just masturbate?
>>

 No.133237

>>133232
Because meme markets have served their purpose which China has recognized and that's why it's currently moving to nationalize its tech sector?
>>

 No.133258

>>133235
More like, why not just pour molten aluminum down your urethra?
>>

 No.133290

>>133258
Because the alternative is breathing hydrochloric acid
>>

 No.133303

>>133258
Aluminum is vastly superior to pig iron
>>

 No.133338

>>133290
Is it?
>>

 No.133375

>>133232
Because we're socialists so we think Capitalism has inherent instabilities which demand its transcendence as a form of social organization. Capitalist growth curves are logistic so eventually China will hit those crises as well.
>>

 No.133553

>>133303
I don't know man, have you been beaten with an aluminum baseball bat AND a pig iron skillet? Do any of us have the type of knowledge that would allow us to make that comparison soberly?
>>

 No.133568

>>133553
>the virgin pig iron skillet
-small range and threat factor
-shitty weight distribution
-attracts unwanted attention
-too heavy for one-hand use, too short as a two hand melee weapon
-makes you look like an unhinged housewife

>the chad aluminum baseball bat

-long range, easy to use to threaten your opponents, just smash an object in your vicinity
-optimized weight distribution
-piece of sports equipment with perfect plausible deniability that doesn't invite suspicion
-usable in one hand and two hand combat
-makes you look like a sports bro chad

There you go.
>>

 No.133572

>>133553
now some draw comrade make the meme in paint
>>

 No.133660

>>133001
you amplified the bass way too much
>>

 No.133726

Paul Cockshot's latest video is on geometry. Is this his spirit science phase?
>>

 No.133878

>>133726
There's a connection between geometry and philosophy via Spinoza, id like to see this explored more
>>

 No.134188

>>133726
It's the ascended leninism phase.
>>

 No.137361

Is Cockshott an Analytical Marxist? I heard he rejects Dialectics
>>

 No.137424

>>137361
Analytic Marxist reject the LTV so no
>>

 No.137630

>>137424
He rejects Hegel and Dialectics though? Does it come into conflict with some of his views?
>>

 No.137696

>>133726
>basic bitch geometry remarks
<OMFG WHAT IS THIS SOO CRAZY XD
kys
>>137630
<I KNOW YOU JUST EXPLAINED WHY HE ISN'T THAT BUT ISN'T HE THAT?
kys
>>

 No.137752

>>137630
>>137361
>>137424
No, his anti-hegelianism comes from him being an Althusser stan, not some commitment to positivism. People wrongly identify him as a positivist/analytic marxist because he's a brit
>>

 No.140098

>>137696
Stop being so angry
>>

 No.141731

BREAKING, PAUL COCKSHOTT JOINS THE ALBA PARTY IN SCOTLAND, MORE TO FOLLOW
>>141704
>>141704
>>141704
>>

 No.141769

So what does the Alba party advocate? Other than scottish independence it's seems pretty vague on wikipedia.
>>

 No.143197

>>141769
they don't sound like absolute shit and scotland leaving the union hurts the *nglo, so that's nice. would be cooler if it were explicitly socialist of course
>>

 No.143491

>>141769
They seem to me the same shit as Sinn Fein in Ireland: lukewarm socdem but not pro austerity and most of all pro independence.
Worth a critical support given the circumstances.
>>

 No.143611

>>143207
why is that one autist always shitting up this thread by crapping on cockshott and making ridiculous bait posts like this calling him a pedo for no reason
>>

 No.143618

>>143611
I urge people to stop replying to the schizo bait poster who is obsessed with this thread.
>>

 No.143621

>>143618
Also to stop replying to every retard posting low level shit like "ITS JUST COMPUTER SOCIALISM" yadda yadda yadda. Replying to fools who haven't even read a single page of TANS is seriously diluting this thread.
>>

 No.143623

>>137696
Woah just take it easy man
>>

 No.143664

>>143653
He combined various aspects of a planned economy and integrated it into a plan for a socialist economy accounting for things like worker participation in the system. Show us someone who's done what he has.
>>

 No.143670

>>143653
cope
>>

 No.148865

NEW DICKBLAST VIDEO

This time is a critique of a very specific point from Shaikh's work on Crony Capitalism.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0TylQTsOpC4
>>

 No.148878

>>148865

POTENTIAL SPOILERS ON THE NEW BOOK TITLE

If you see the corner of the video, he wrote "Towards a new materialism".
Could this be the new book he is writing?
(He's also writing a book on planning btw).
>>

 No.149503

>>148865
based thanks
>>

 No.153224

Anyone seen Socialism Done Left's critique of Cockshott's Limits of Market Socialism?

Has Cockshott provided arguments previously that respond to the points SDL raises?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJt2Tcz9Di0
>>

 No.153230

>>153224
>weird creepy feminine gremlin vs professor cockshott
not even bothering
>>

 No.153343

File: 1617588264896.png (34.24 KB, 500x590, 23d1bcd9adf242e533c1dc6502….png)

>>153224
I've seen it. He doesn't really raise any points other than saying he disagrees with Cockshott because cockshott assumes the LTV to be correct and he disagrees with that. Also he handwaves away econophysics and empirical evidence of the LTV. Finally he says he doesn't believe in planning because "he's been convinced of the power of competition".

Literally not a critique, its a reaction video where he says i agree with this and i disagree with this without giving any reasonings or arguments let alone evidence
>>

 No.153358

>>153224
A few bad assumptions. For one he says individuals won't be able to hoard wealth because income can be capped. But cockshott is talking about firms not people and in the same vid he says more productive firms should get more funds so their wouldn't be a cap on larger firms hoarding wealth which leads to class conflict as rich firms push for more markets. Theirs also a problem with the idea more productive firms should get more resources like production isn't magic it's an engineering problem so if one firm underperforms it should be investigated why. Maybe they have bad management in which case get better management and keep resource flows the same. Maybe they don't have the right tools in which case they should be getting more resources to get better machines and shit. Maybe infastcture is worse whatever just fucking over that firm is basically the worse thing you can do in most cases. Internal markets were tried in SEARS to make stores more productive and guess where sears is now…
>>

 No.156522

File: 1617747519234.jpg (188.06 KB, 657x960, Paul COCKshott.jpg)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwfTFAtQzUQ
>Dickblast interviewed
<By a random venezuelan student

Insane amounts of based.
>>

 No.156584

>>156522
"In the late 80s i was working for a company which went bankrupt"
"Which was its name"
"It was called MEMEX"

My sides
>>

 No.156851

>>156522
How can one man be so based
>>

 No.157667

Does anyone have an suggestions for further cybernetic reading material/ anyone new work being down aside from cockshot? Kind of worried that he is pretty old and want to know if anyone has built off his work
>>

 No.157671

>>157667
He's in the middle of writing two new books so it should be good for a while
>>

 No.157685

>>157667
I have suggestions for the reading list but they're older books, not new stuff
>>

 No.157796

Jan Philipp Dapprich was mentioned earlier in this thread.
>>49068
>>

 No.158102

>>157796
hes too neoclassical-pilled for alot of people here
>>

 No.159647

>>157671
Yeah that might help. An updated version of Towards a new socialism would be good. Maybe a more fleshed out version of his socialist strategy videos as well. I always struggled to imagine how you would go about creating and testing the systems need to run the economy in that way. How do you go from money as it is now to labour vouchers?, how would you organise the building of a planned economy?, would it be done in stages and if so what are they? etc.
>>157796

Thanks I'll have a look
>>

 No.159662

Entrevista Cockshott con intro:
https://youtu.be/o9O3ogpEryc
>This is an interview done with a Spanish cyber communist group.
>Covers quite a few topics that have not appeared in earlier videos.
>They can be contacted at https://cibcom.org
>or at twitter addresses @cibcomorg @beir_bua they invite any Spanish speakers who are interested to contact them
>>

 No.159812

>>159647
ones on updated planning the other one is on materialism
>>

 No.159823

>>159662
thanks spanish-anon
>>

 No.159954

https://leftypol.org/tech/res/7710.html

Ehi cybersoc anons i believe the people down in /tech/ need some help about some planning related stuff, give it a look.
>>

 No.162994

I just scrawled out a mindmap for designing an open source alternative for Stratfor's Threat Lens software. Any suggestions?

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