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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

"The anons of the past have only shitposted on the Internets about the world, in various ways. The point, however, is to change it."
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File: 1626035232709.png (74.78 KB, 385x363, itg.png)

 No.370215[Last 50 Posts]

/Internet Trash General/ - endless eceleberry

 No.552856

>>552632
Progressivism was literally the slogan of Teddy Roosevelt the arch-imperialist. That's where it has remained for over a century, with little changed. It changes remarkably little compared even with liberalism or cuckservatism.

 No.552901

Unruhe is still salty…

 No.552960

>>552849
Most of these upholstery-bickering arguments (complaining about the particulars of the aesthetic of a socialist party before one is even built) are literally reruns from 30-40 years ago. What's notably different is that this shit is burning out in under a month rather than slowly meandering its way through books and debates and the like for years.
One downside of this instant-communication age for the purpose of establishment propaganda is that no piece of propaganda can last for very long before it gets swallowed up by the next thing as distraction after distraction. It's also a lot harder to get groups to meaningfully purge their own members over disagreements in it when they can just shift between communities.

 No.552976

it's too bad breadtubers spend time arguing about land back and patriotism, the biggest strike wave in decades in the US is happening and they've got nothing to contribute. maybe it's too late to get involved and help organize but i doubt any of them would have tried anyway. complete wastes of time

 No.552980

>>552101
I heard it broke up and the leadership all quit except for Gazi.

 No.552991

>>552976
Turd Worldists would probably scab.

 No.553023

What the Maupinites did today.

 No.553027

>>551859
This is such a terminally online position to have. The people who do believe those things are already outside doing stuff or reporting about it. So obviously you are only hearing about the people who don’t.

 No.553031

>>552751
>>552830
Who even knows what's true and what not? Don't we all get our knowledge of the past from secondary sources?

 No.553118

>>552960
What I've noticed is the left rolling up and, echo chamber and party after another, they all toe the line to join with the liberal regime. That's what the latest "American Patriotism" spat is signaling, that Caleb and co. are signaling that they are useful tools for their national governments in some way.

They're definitely throwing out everything possible to avoid talking about the ongoing destruction of the actual people. No more eviction moratorium, people don't have homes any more and are scrambling for anything… and here's Biden imposing mandates to purge millions of people out of their jobs, all of them selectively enforced. How any "left" party isn't denouncing every damn thing about covid insanity is beyond me. It should be priority A-1 and failure to do so shows that someone is not serious about fighting the class war.

 No.553141

>>551412
The problem is that socialism without Land Back is litterally just that settler colonial slave system, and yes it's 100% possible, it's even the expected defeault of an american revolution, that class is in fact maintained even by socialists if the US is not throughly decolonized.
It's not a fringe possibility, the american revolution will be nazbol by default.

 No.553144

>>551685
Because Land Back is the national question specifically applied to settler colonial society and formulates the question is ways easily accessible to the masses of people who are victims of settler colonialism, an accessibility that should matter somewhat to communists.

 No.553146

>>551387
And we have expmained several times that "Land Back" is whichever thing solves the national question for natives and black people in the US, and as such as a whole have many different concrete demands because there are many different ways to answer the national question.

 No.553152

>>553146
>land back
>concrete demands

 No.553159

>>553152
Yes, there are several different, mutually exclusive ones.
As some people point out, some of those demands are giving bourgeois natives federal land grants, other people want to establish communist homelands, other people want to boot whitey from turtle Island.
I mean there are so many concrete demands that several of them are mutually exclusive within the concept and as such there are no concrete demands that apply to all proposed solutions to the national question for natives and black people

 No.553161

>>553159
Yeah, and your concrete demand is that communists should keep it on the back of their minds which will magically prevent a NazBol take over of America.

Instead of land back, you should call it, "Pray the NazBol away". It is much more understandable that way. Truly the issue of land back is that "land back" means everything except "land back", so confusing!

 No.553218

>>553141
>socialism is when more land is privately owned by poc
shut up

 No.553231

>>553218
>socialism is when more land is privately owned by poc
This is literally the opposite of land back. We want to return alot of ancestral territorial lands, that are mostly rural and unpopulated, back to the natives. They will decide for themselves what kind of system of government they will set up for themselves.

 No.553233

>>553161
Yes, it should be one of the many guiding principles of how to build socialism, to ensure that class society is actually sublated and not perpetuated yes.
The idea that socialism can be formed without guiding principles is not Marxism, it's technoaccelerationism.

 No.553237

Lmao you libs are still going with this? Go back to Twitter.

 No.553239

>>553218
No, what I said was that this was one proposed solution to the National Question for Natives and Black people. Specifically it's one of the liberal answers. It is not one I support, but it is still one of the peoposed solutions to the questions.

 No.553249

>>553161
Wait did you forget about the whole "establish ASSRs for Native and black people" part?
Because that is the concrete way I want to prevent white supremacist socialism and I've stated this several times. Did you forget?

 No.553257


 No.553260

>>551985
No it doesn't. This is to be negotiated in a post revolutionary scenario. Painting maps is going to be counter-productive.

 No.553268

>>553260
it's always a dangerous game to hold negotiations without knowing in advance what the result will be

 No.553271

>>553268
If you know the outcome of a negotiation before going in, then it is by definition not a negotiation.

 No.553280

>>553231
>They will decide for themselves what kind of system of government they will set up for themselves.
And what do you think they will choose you retarded liberal?
Pray the liberalism away. Pray the nazbol away.
>>553233
>sublated the material conditions of the dialectic materialist antithesis synthesis quantum manifold of marxist interpretation
>>553249
More pray the nazbol/liberalism away.

Keep praying the nazbols away, Land Backkkers. I will pray for a prompt exorcism of your abundant liberalism as well.

 No.553281

>>553271
of course it is: you go into a meeting knowing the broad parameters of every party's position and their relative strength. it's not too hard to draw from that a rough idea of what the final position will be.

the helpful and unhelpful thing about having indicative maps (or if specific maps are tedious, something like percentage figures of territory, resources, etc.) is that you avoid making false promises to two different groups and then having to deal with the fact they both want to cash the cheque you've written them.

 No.553283

>>551995
Don't think one can easily predict whose limbs the great torturewheel of left-twitter will twist next, but if I had ti just shoot a random guess, I'd say that the next meltdown will be over the question of black nationalism, and if its good / bad for intersectional American left wing movement. Obviously, after a month, everyone will reach the obvious conclusion that everyone else has their own hyper-online opinion on the topic which they will never allow to be changed, and then the discussion will move over to Hoteps, and if they are good or bad for black culture.

 No.553286

>>553283
Nice guess. I think we could meme it into existence if we tried. I was reading about Kwanzaa. There are people who celebrate that shit. Made by an FBI informant that was responsible for the deaths of many Black Panther people. I think it could be good fuel for the retardation.

 No.553292

>>553280
What, political institutions constitute prayers to you? How do you, a supposed Marxist, come to the conclusion that political institutions are just abstract concepts with no real world agency?

 No.553293

>>553281
The process for determining how much land a native ASSR would need and where those lines would go is going to involve so many people, perspectives, land surveys, economic planning and coordination at both the national and potentially also the international level, that any map that is not drawn on the basis of the inputs of thousands if not millions of people across a large spectrums of sciences is going to be reductive and potentially sabotage the actual necessary process.

 No.553302

>>553280
>And what do you think they will choose you retarded liberal?
Socialism, in a sitution where a socialist regime allows them to seperate, we will have alreayd moved past captailsim

 No.553310

>>553292
Where are these alleged institutions? And dont say "in my imagination", thats not a real place.
>>553302
>please read my american socialist fantasy novel
No thanks.

 No.553313

>>553293
it strikes me as convenient that one bloke can do an entire book about cybernetic planning but it's a bridge to far to come up with a purely illustrative map by slapping together one's own interpretation of public domain data.

(particularly when remembering that the USSR's SSR's were hardly set in stone, with some being abolished and others created as time went on.)

 No.553328

File: 1634556428829.png (464.44 KB, 593x557, newsomlandback.png)

Democrats are socialister than leftypol now

 No.553335

>>553328
>Democrats are socialister than leftypol now
The influx of Hazlers / Maupinites and turned this place far right.

 No.553340

>>553328
why all this landback hype? is it that interesting?

 No.553341

>>553335
Leftypol has historically been anti-sakaist.
We've been BTFOing ethno-nationalists since way back. This new wave of woke feudalism or woke socialist fantasy role playing or wherever the goalpost currently is, is a relatively new thing.

I don't know if I blame infracels. But they are distinctly american and distinctly liberal. So maybe that's true.

So bloshevik flag, and the other sakaist land backkker, where do you hail from?

 No.553342

>>553141
>actually if you do socialism but you don't do socialism it's not socialism!

 No.553343

>>553335
Listen both landbackers and hazbots are equally roundly rejected here.

 No.553344

>>553341
>Leftypol has historically been anti-sakaist.
MTW isn't sakaist per say. Study theory brainlet.

 No.553345

>>553340
Apparently e-celebs talk about it so consequently posters here, being sheep in all ways but physical, talk about it all the time too.

 No.553347

If you oppose land back you are by definition not a socialist

Socialists = want land reform

 No.553348

>>553343
See>>553347

 No.553349

>>553345
or it's just spam

 No.553350

>>553344
The sakaism here is calling white people the settler class and all this woke ethno-nationalism, blood and soil shit.
Turd worldism is its own brand of retardation.

 No.553361

>>553310
>Where are these alleged institutions?

They are to be established. That's what Socialists do. Establish political institutions, be they dual power or a DotP. Are you a reformist or something?

 No.553362

>>553313
Sure, but this is like asking a cyberneticists to tell you where the call centers for complaints would be and also to demonstrate how exactly the computers are to be assembled and what powerplants would power them. I mean he could tell you ways of doing that, but what would the ultimate point be when that's just his own relatively ignorant draft on a huge issue.

 No.553364

>>553342
Yes that's what is being said. Socialism without decolonization is not in fact socialism.

 No.553367

File: 1634559042247.jpg (2.99 MB, 2785x2072, 4f6xcxt9n2251.jpg)

>>553362
not really
anyway here's my proposal

 No.553368

>>553347
>being a socialist means wanting race-based land reform under capitalism.
no

 No.553369

>>553347
>implying land back idpol is land reform
stop eating those mushrooms already

 No.553371

What if i tell you that teh concept of "land back" is similar to the concept of a "white ethnostate" (or in South Africa, "volkstaat")?

 No.553373

>>553144
So wait, it's literally just autonomous regions for tribes if they wish to have them? Nobody is fucking opposed to that and this is also not what the land back crowd usually advocates for.

>>553347
A land reform based on race is more akin to the idea of Wehrbauern of the Nazis or Israeli settlers in the West Bank. Nobody has explained to me what the difference between land back and Zionism is, so far.

 No.553376

>>553367
wtf is going on in that image?

 No.553378


>>553373
>So wait, it's literally just autonomous regions for tribes if they wish to have them?

No. These people here keep are constantly redefining it to suit their rhetorical purposes and desire for it to be a left-wing position. It's not "autonomous regions" or a metaphor for anything else. It's "landback". All of the land back to the indigenous population, that's it. If that sounds retarded, it's because it is. Pure wrecker shit funded by the bourgeoisie.

 No.553379

I also love how land backers always automatically presume that natives and blacks have the same interest. Their lived realities and social situation are very differently and there is no guarantee that they would just find common ground against the white devil. What about Latinos by the way? Most of them are descendents of white Spaniards, they would have to go too.

 No.553385

>>553373
>So wait, it's literally just autonomous regions for tribes if they wish to have them?

Yes, that would be a socialists solution to the Land Back issue.

 No.553388

>>553373
>Nobody has explained to me what the difference between land back and Zionism is, so far.

The entire historical context, which matters to DiaMat. I would be like Palestine taking land back, not like an Israeli invasion.

 No.553389

>>553376
a world with a benevolent god instead of an actively malevolent one

 No.553390

>>553378
That was my impression as well. Whenever I expressed desire to enable first nations to self-determinate via autonomous regions akin to the SSRs in the Soviet Union on a smaller scale, they go nuclear like "OH SO YOU JUST WANT TO GIVE BACK A PORITION OF WHAT YOU STOKE??" It seems like these people purposely understate or overstate their demands which makes it so nebulous to grasp.

Usually demands for national liberation have been very clear and concrete for communists in the past. Looking at the ANC in South Africa during apartheid, they didn't have retarded debates over whether they should kick every white person out should they take power. And in the case of South Africa, that would have even been possible with a 90% black population, unlike the United States with a 1% indigenous population.

 No.553393

>>553385
Then the entire debate is over because even people like Maupin are not opposed to that as he has stated a dozen times.

>>553388
Can you explain why? Judea used to be a state for and of Jews, so why do they not have the right to their land back? The historical context of the formation of a Jewish state is the Holocaust which almost exterminated the Jewish people, and that was much more recent than the displacement of indigenous peoples in the 19th century.

So again, what is the concrete difference between Zionism and land back?

 No.553394


 No.553396

>>553361
>these institutions exist solely in my imagination
Very cool.
>>553388
Abuse marxist language one more time, and I will go to your house, take it from you, and make you work there for my profit.

 No.553400

>>553393
>Then the entire debate is over because even people like Maupin are not opposed to that
What Gonzalo Anon is leaving out is that he thinks that indigenous people in these ASSRs should have the right to "rehome" (aka ethnically cleanse) non-indigenous people for whatever reason they see fit. He unironically considers universal constitutional protection from racial discrimination (which would naturally prevent this) to be a form of white supremacy.

 No.553403

>>553393
>Then the entire debate is over because even people like Maupin are not opposed to that as he has stated a dozen times

I mean yeah it should be a just a tautology to most socialists, but it quite clesrly isn't.

>Israeli settler-colonialism is land back?


No really. Azkenazi jews were not an extant native people that was dependent upon the land to supply their way of life and life's prime wants, they had had exodus from Plaestine a good two millenea before then.
Time alone seperates the situation. Most native jews converted to Islam and became levantine arabs, and those that didn't eventually found homelands elsewhere.
This is also why african colonization was not Land Back either.

 No.553406

>>553367
>tfw no america

 No.553409

>>553396
Ah okay, you're a reformist. Opinion discarded.


>>553400
Again that's a lie. It has nothing to do with racial discrimination, it has to do with giving a community right to create space between them and people that have historically and actively oppressed them and whose presence within their communities exists explicitly to negate native self-determination. No sure, you don't get to racially discriminate, but you do get to rehome settlers that was implanted on your land to destroy your people and it's ability to politically organize.

 No.553411

Land backkkers recede to easily agreeable positions, but once you concede even an inch, they expand their reach far beyond what is reasonable.

Lakota Zionism makes so much sense tbh.
>>553403
Give half of the US back to Mexico, why are you silent about the settler relations of Mexican immigrants working in slave conditions, dying in droves, on stolen land. Much more recently than whatever you're larping about.

You excuse settler colonial relations happening right now because the owners of Mexico are majority light brown skin, but the people suffering from american settler colonialism are milk chocolate brown. How do you live with yourself. Larping about a minority <1% population and crying about something that happened eons ago. Very quiet on ongoing genocide in settler colonial relations.

American pig.

 No.553413

>>553403
>I mean yeah it should be a just a tautology to most socialists, but it quite clesrly isn't.
In my view this is very much because of the "land back" crowd intentionally stirring up controversy with fantastical maximist demands that would look like a horror show in practice while calling everybody else an offshoot of white supremacism. In short, absolute wrecking behavior.
>Time alone seperates the situation. Most native jews converted to Islam and became levantine arabs, and those that didn't eventually found homelands elsewhere.
Besides the argument that I could say the same for indigenous Americans on a different time frame, you are completely ignoring a history of exclusion and programs including the fucking Shoah. Surely after such an experience, they would have their right to their ancestral homeland?

Besides that, the indigenous "way of life" (in Marxist terms - their mode of production) was doomed with the advent of modernity anyway. And there is no going back to primitive ways of life based of moralism, that's quite literally what Marx called reactionary.

 No.553415

>>553411
Mexico is a bourgeois nation-state and as such does not represent the people within it, and as such cannot inherit the claims of it's people, especially not it's native population as it is in turn settler colonialist.

However as SSRs I wouldn't be against Mexico and the US reconfiguring which SSR manages what land.

 No.553417

>>553409
>It has nothing to do with racial discrimination,
Just saying that doesn't make it true. You said explicitly that they should be endowed with arbitrary power to decide who gets to live there and who doesn't, and that if they want to expel people on the basis of race then this should be allowed.
>it has to do with giving a community right to create space between them and people that have historically and actively oppressed them and whose presence within their communities exists explicitly to negate native self-determination.
So did Jews have a right to "create space" for themselves in Israel, and to separate people who for centuries had actively oppressed them, which included both Christians and Muslims?

You also haven't addressed the issue of how exactly this would make white supremacy impossible. South Africa literally used a similar "ethnic homeland" mechanism for the express purpose of oppressing black people. What would prevent these ASSR's from becoming Bantustans?

 No.553418

>>553413
>Surely after such an experience, they would have their right to their ancestral homeland?

Right to a homeland? Sure. Right to the homeland of Native people elsewhere and to colonize those? No.

 No.553419

>>553345
>We've been BTFOing ethno-nationalists since way back. This new wave of woke feudalism or woke socialist fantasy role playing or wherever the goalpost currently is, is a relatively new thing.
Tmw you see a liberal denouncing Nazism in general and right-wing thoughts one and for all but supports land back. They are arguably the biggest hypocrites out there

 No.553421

>>553409
>It has nothing to do with racial discrimination, it has to do with giving a community right to create space between them and people that have historically and actively oppressed them and whose presence within their communities exists explicitly to negate native self-determination.
This strain of argument "akshually, it's not racism, it's self-determination" when you actively attach the right to housing and subsistence to race it's very reminiscent with defenders of segregationism or Boer reactionaries.

>>553418
Okay, so you just superimpose your own personal moral on the world, talking about "ancestral rights" and shit like that. Then why did you refer to dialectical materialism later? You are clearly not making Marxist arguments.

 No.553422

>>553417
>So did Jews have a right to "create space" for themselves in Israel, and to separate people who for centuries had actively oppressed them, which included both Christians and Muslims?

Did palestinian communities repress European jews? How exactly? They were continents away from each other.

>how comcretely would it prevent white supremacy


By granting natives and black people politocal institutions with which they could defend themselves, by violence if necessary.

 No.553425

>>553415
>Mexico is a bourgeois nation-state and as such does not represent the people within it
Shut the fuck up, gringo puerco. You don't get to decide who's land is that. Please tell the palestinians how they don't deserve their land because "Palestine is a bourgeoise nation state".
>Lakotan zionist justifying the crimes of American settler colonialist on the Mexican people.
No surprise there. Children in cages are woke, amirite?

 No.553426

>>553422
>Did palestinian communities repress European jews? How exactly? They were continents away from each other.
If a contemporary Palestinian has nothing do to with the oppression of Jews in Europe, then a white working class homeowner paying off a mortgage has nothing to do with the fucking Trail of Tears either. What the fuck my man.

Did you know that the EFF in South Africa works with small white landowners against land monopolization?

 No.553427

>>553422
>Did palestinian communities repress European jews?
Antisemitism has always been widespread among Muslims and Jews under Islamic law are second class citizens forced to pay the Jizyah. This was also the case in the Ottoman Empire which occupied Palestine and imposed these conditions on Jews living there up until the British arrived. There was ample reason for Jews fleeing oppression in Europe to expect poor treatment by Muslim Arabs since it had been going on for centuries by that point.
>By granting natives and black people politocal institutions.
Black people had that in South African Bantustans.

 No.553428

>>553426
I’m confused as to how an indigenous Palestinian having their homes conquered by European Jews are at all comparable to the descendants of white colonists whose greatest fear is having the US Empire dismantled

You aren’t the Palestinian lad, you’re the Israeli

 No.553429

>>553425
Yes that's right. Palestine shouldn't have Land Back, Plestinians should.

 No.553433

>>553427
>ntisemitism has always been widespread among Muslims and Jews under Islamic law are second class citizens forced to pay the Jizyah

Yes that deals with palestinian jews. What did palestinian muslims do to european jews though?

 No.553434

>>553428
>You aren’t the Palestinian lad, you’re the Israeli
Virtually everybody would have agreed in 1948 that Jews had primarily been the victims rather than perpetrators of discrimination and ethnic hatred. The point is that the roles can be reversed on a dime, and all this talk of "ethnic homelands" is a recipe for such a reversal unless limited by a constitution which prohibits discrimination against non-natives or non-blacks who find themselves living in these autonomous territories.

 No.553436

>>553427
>Black people had that in South African Bantustans.

No they hadn't. I've used those earlier to argue why ASSRs need a lot of political autonomy and economic integration in order to not be open air ghettos like bantustans.
But hey it is true to some degree that Bantustans might have backfired and helped the black communities organize against South Africa.

 No.553437

>>553429
🤡 shout it loud, shout it proud! Get em Lakotan Zionist.

No freedom for Palestine! Only freedom for Palestinians in an undetermined time, in a fantasy future scenario that I just came up with!
Marxist dialectical materialism sublation materialism history says that Palestinians should keep getting genocided unless they can manifest a socialist movement out of thin air. Same with indigenous Mexicans being genocided at the border.

Don't be reactionary! Embrace genocide!

Message paid for and approved by the Lakotan Zionist Internet Defense Force.

 No.553438

>>553434
Yes you're right, we shouldn't set up a native or black settler colonialist state somewhere, taking away the land of people unrelated to them and their issues.

 No.553440

File: 1634562613060.png (1.22 MB, 800x573, ClipboardImage.png)

HAM SNACK?

 No.553441

Mexicomrades, after we retake our land from the claws of the Lakota Zionist, will we decolonize Mexico from Mexica feudalism whose effects are still felt to this day? Mexica supremacy needs to end!!

CHINAMPAS BACK

 No.553442

>>553434
That’s why the Jews should have colonized Germany instead of Palestine, fuckin cack

 No.553443

>>553437
Idiot, we're talking about a post revolutionary scenario where. No, the borgeois state of Palestine has no claim to land outside of palestibian people, and as such a bourgeois palestine wouldnt get a chunck out of a post revolutionary Israel, which is what we're talking about between the US and Mexico.

 No.553445

>>553428
So it's just oppression olympics then? The point is that a white working class American has nothing to do with the horrible injustices indigenous people suffered hundreds of years ago the same way a Palestinian has nothing to do with what the Nazis did to Jews.

So yes, I am firmly against suspending basic liberal (!) universalism in favor of some NRx style blood-and-soil policy under the disguise of self-determination. Even in an indigenous SSR, you should not be having your entire livelihood taken away from your just because you have a white skin color. That I need to tell this a supposed communist and materialist is fucking insanity.

 No.553447

>>553433
>What did palestinian muslims do to european jews though?
What did the vast majority of non-native people who weren't alive during the period of colonization and who have never met a native person do to Native people?
>>553436
>I've used those earlier to argue why ASSRs need a lot of political autonomy and economic integration
And what will guarantee that this happens? If your problem with a standard solution (simply the explicit prohibition of discrimination combined with an active spreading of anti-racist ideas) won't work because white people will simply ignore it, then that problem still persists under your system. White Supremacy will never be made "impossible" so long as white people are the majority, unless you want to actually disenfranchise them entirely.

 No.553451

>>553445
>The point is that a white working class American has nothing to do with the horrible injustices indigenous people suffered hundreds of years ago
<Nothing to do
<Hundreds of years ago

Settler hours

 No.553455

>>553438
Good, then you agree that native and black autonomous regions should not have the arbitrary right to displace people.

 No.553456

>>553451
Do you consider all Germans responsible for the Holocaust?

 No.553457

>>553443
There is no post revolution you can plan for. What are you smoking? This has been criticized by many before, but just simply put, if you aren't analyzing what is right now, to determine what you need to do right now, you're engaging in utopian fantasy world building and it's liberal, useless, and irrelevant to everyone.

Is your position seriously so weak that it can only exist in a fantasy scenario in your mind?

 No.553458

>>553451
The gros of the injustices happened in the 19th century. We are in 2021.

Isn't it funny how during all the discussion, class struggle is basically completely suspended? The monopoly bourgeoisie that sucks the life out of white, red and black people alike is not even mentioned anymore, instead the target shifts towards petty ethnic "muh rightful clay" /pol/ tier shitflinging.

 No.553461

>>553447
>What did the vast majority of non-native people who weren't alive during the period of colonization and who have never met a native person do to Native people?

Lel again with the liberal individualist analysis. It's about geo-communities. There are settler-communities within the US that are extracting wealth from and oppressing black and native communties right now as we're having this discussion.
This isn't about sin or guilt, this is about active sociopolitical movements and dismantling those.

>And what will guarantee that this happens?


Well, either the communist movement as a whole makes sure to establish this, or native and black communities must take it for themselves by waging protracted people's war on the settler state.

 No.553463

And we are having this discussion every fucking day as the biggest strike waves are happening, but who cares, they are all settlers anyway.

 No.553467

>>553463
>>553458
Exactly. Pure wrecker shit. If you want a historical example look how they helped destroy OWS: "sweety, you can't OCCUPY stolen land, this whole endeavor is just an act of white supremacy, knock it off"

Look who fund this shit.

https://www.influencewatch.org/non-profit/ndn-collective/ Bezos here, Ford elsewhere.

 No.553468

>>553463
Indeed. Lakota Zionists don't care about anything except internet points. I'm here because it's fun to see them twist themselves into a knot trying yo justify themselves.

 No.553469

>>553461
>There are settler-communities within the US that are extracting wealth from and oppressing black and native communties right now as we're having this discussion.
Jews in Islamic societies literally had to pay a tax to Muslims for the right to exist. There is absolutely no reason to think that European Jews would have been exempt from this when they got to Palestine. So under your logic the expulsion of the Palestinians was acceptable.
>Well, either the communist movement as a whole makes sure to establish this
If the concerted effort of the communist movement can stop these regions from becoming Bantustans, then why can it not stop discrimination without them?

 No.553470

>>553394
come on lads i'm firing out banger after banger and you're giving me nothing over here

 No.553471

>>553463
Because this wave of strikes is unambiguously a good thing for communists and the line we should take on it is not controversial.
Unless you want to discuss concrete organization and getting into the streets, then it's just an issue that mwrits much less discussion.

 No.553472

>>553467
Oh really, liberals have opinions on the National Question? I suppose that means noone can argue about solutions to the national question!

 No.553478

>>553394
Hey I found it funny. Just replying with a "hehe" was too unsubstantial.
>>553471
You mean discussing things that actually matter and not your fantasy world where indigenous people are ultra based and do shamanic socialism and are PoC landlords with special race rights, but it's totally not an ethnostate.
>land back is controversial
It seriously isn't. It's been non controversial here for more than 5 years. You haven't answered the question of which community you hail from.

 No.553481

>>553411
Okay, so are we talking strictly while both the US and Mexico are bourgeoise states?
Sure, it would be better if the US gave territory back to Mexico in that case, of course. That's completely obvious.

 No.553483

>>553478
>You haven't answered the question of which community you hail from.

This one. I've been posting on leftypol since 2015.

 No.553486

>>553481
>Okay, so are we talking strictly while both the US and Mexico are bourgeoise states?
We can't do anything else. If we want to fantasize about how socialism will come to America, might as well say that the Chinese liberated America and the rest of the world, abolished borders, and installed replicators in every community.
Or we might as well say that aliens liberated humanity and fixed the cis white hetero issue. Now everyone is non binary PeopleOfOtherWorlds bisexuals and native americans have been sublated materially dialectic historical.

It makes no sense to talk about a future that is absurdly uncertain. America might not even exist. Native Americans, along with all other Americans, might have become obsolete, died, comnited sudoku, became nazis, emigrated. Etc.

It's utopianism and hence libshit.

 No.553487

>>553486
Okay, so you're not Marxist, you're just u/acc where we cannot talk about what goals we should work towards, all we can do is accelerate the contradictions of capitalism and hope that somehow turns into communism without any human agency or trying?

In that case all western Marxists should be lolberts.

 No.553489

>>553487
Au contraire. Marxists want to understand what to do NOW. Which goals are achievable NOW. You're talking, and I quote you, "post revolution". Look around, as a marxist. There is so much work to do before that conversation can even start to be relevant. You're not a Marxist. You're a utopian. Stop coping.

 No.553499

>>553489
>The previous mode of production, due to its contradictions, involuntarily gives rise to the next stage of development from within itself.

Yes and no. Marxists are interested in what is to be done here and now, under given conditions.
Land Back deals with what should happen in a post-revolutionary scenario *given settler colonial conditions have not changed since then*.
Since white supremacy in the US has been around for 400 years, it's fair to assume it will be around for a while unless addressed. Land Back is a mechanism to do so, and yes it's okay to talk about, because even Marx talked about what ought be done or what a communist society ought have, even though he lived in times where no such revolution was imminent.

What you're dealing in is Unconditional Accelerationism, not Marxism.

 No.553524

>>553456
No, but THE GERMANS certainly consider themselves more responsible for their holocaust than White Americans do…

 No.553597


 No.553610

>>553499
In reality, most people here would side with the American bourgeoisie over an indigenous revolution threatening decolonization, just face the facts
If it comes down to socialism that destroys their nation or US-brand fascism they’ll be taking photos watching strange fruit swing from southern trees

 No.553613

>>553499
>Land Back deals with what should happen in a post-revolutionary scenario *given settler colonial conditions have not changed since then*.
That's a contradiction in terms. A revolution on its own, even absent any measures specifically designed to address racism, would dramatically alter the relations between racial groups, overwhelmingly to the benefit of those who are currently victimized by racism.

 No.553616

>>553524
Exactly, Yankees and half-Yankees (like that Canuck cunt sabo-uygha) don’t take a lick of responsibility for the heinous crimes of the US Empire, cowardly fuckin scum, the list of evil deeds on the kraut list is lower than on the Yankee list yet krauts own up to that evil tens time over

The average kraut liberal will admit to worse than the average yankee red

 No.553617

File: 1634570437591.png (1.29 MB, 1087x619, ClipboardImage.png)

DEATH TO WHITE BARBARIANS
TRUE LAND FOR TRUE ROMANS
LAND BACK

 No.553620

>>553613
Until people like you execute them and re-arm the bourgeoisie to prevent indigenous socialists from dismantling the United States and Canada

 No.553633

>>553616
Anon not even the Soviets considered ordinary Germans to be responsible for the crimes of the Nazis, despite having more cause than anybody to resent them. They understood that the German people were ruled by a fascist government over which they had no control. The self-flagellation that's peddled in modern day Germany is entirely a Western phenomenon, it didn't exist in the GDR.
>>553620
I will support the execution of anybody who tries to establish an ethnostate or resists the basic principle of racial equality.

 No.553635

>>553613
Or it consolidates race in america and thus consolidates class, merely creating a new kind of race-based class society. Racism and class must be dismantled exactly at the same time, otherwise either one risks reterritorializing by means of the other.

 No.553639

>>553633
>I will support the execution of anybody who tries to establish an ethnostate or resists the basic principle of racial equality.

So let me get it straight, you would murder natives that would try to rehome settlers?

 No.553641

>>553633
Yea I know you would support the bourgeoisie and slaughter an indigenous communist movement like the trained canuck dog you are, I think we’ve been over this before?
Just proof that indigenous communists should not ever trust you, always watch you the same as any other snake in the grass

 No.553645

>>553616
I must admit that the attitudes here are making me pretty doomerist in regards to my first worldism position. I'm from a state that also participated in settler colonialism and here there's waaaaaay more empathy and willing to own up to the fact that we have benefitted from genocide and imperialism as a community than anglos seem to have.

 No.553649

>>553635
>Or it consolidates race in america and thus consolidates class, merely creating a new kind of race-based class society.
Thats honestly absurd. Even under current conditions racialized groups have been able to establish a significant presence among the middle class and bourgeoisie. If the systematic barriers to their advancement such as education and poverty, etc are removed, then we can expect their representation among the upper echelons of society to only increase, which is what happened virtually everywhere else socialism was implemented.
>>553639
I would support the deployment of state violence against attempts at ethnic cleansing.
>>553641
I have no problem with Indigenous communists, I have no problem with resolutely fighting racist and colonialist ideology, I have no problem with pouring robust investments into indigenous communities to combat poverty, unemployment, etc. What I have a problem with is the assertion that anybody has the right to displace somebody else from their home on the basis of their ethnicity.

 No.553661

>>553649
>then we can expect their representation among the upper echelons of society to only increase

No, we can't. White people have a material incentive to keep in place a system where white people have an easier time advancing than anyone else. Thusly, if those who appoint and promote people are all white and come out of a white supremacist society, that society is going to be white supremacist *because white people would have a material incentive to keep it that way*.
It would be in their objective interest to create a situation where it is easier for them to advance over anyone else, and thus this is what we can expect will happen UNLESS there are specific measures to prevent this.
If it happens, then that is a new kind of class system, that is to say, that class would be able to reterritorialize itself through racism, if systematic racism goes unadressed, even if the bourgeois-proletarian antagonism is solved.

>I would support the deployment of state violence against attempts at ethnic cleansing.


Okay, so settlers get to genocide people and take natives land, and if natives try to take it back then they should die.
Between killing natives and rehoming settlers, how in the world is KILLING PEOPLE the lesser of evils?

Baizuo-brain fr

 No.553668

>>553661
>Baizuo-brain fr

So, you're a white Canadian right?

 No.553670

File: 1634572048196.png (97.52 KB, 4767x2387, landback.png)

Here's my proposal for land back (to the ocean's floor)

 No.553673

>>553661
>White people have a material incentive to keep in place a system where white people have an easier time advancing than anyone else
Only if you preserve a society in which it is possible for one person to materially or socially advance over one another. Perhaps, then, the gordian knot is cut by a return to egalitarianism. (in the quite aggressive sense of social and material equality of standing, with all of the objections that usually provokes, and not in the sense of "i'm colourblind, i don't see race, etc, etc.")

 No.553676

>>553645
When are you giving your land back?

 No.553682

landback people I know IRL are all declassed losers, so prima facie I don't think it's the right position

 No.553683

>>553668
>So, you're a white Canadian right?

No?

>>553676

I am not a settler, I am from a country that participated in settler colonialism
(Britain versus US)

 No.553687

>>553673
>Only if you preserve a society in which it is possible for one person to materially or socially advance over one another.

Indeed, that that's going to be around until we have hit higher stage FALC, and a hierarchal system may well actively resist FALC, because hierarchy would be impossible within it.

 No.553689

>>553661
>White people have a material incentive to keep in place a system where white people have an easier time advancing than anyone else
First, according to that logic, the same is true of non white people. Meaning that they could just as easily invert this structure in their autonomous zones, especially since you are opposed to extending protection from racial discrimination to these areas.
>inb4 they have no history of this
Well Jews had no history of settler colonialism against Arabs, and had for most of history been oppressed by them. Look how that turned out.

Second, you're acting as if racialized people have no agency and no means to affect change without segregating themselves, but this has already been disproven by the history of these groups under capitalism. Even with all the systematic disadvantages, they have been able to carve out a place among the ruling and middle class. They are underrepresented to be sure, but they exist despite the obstacles which stem specifically from capitalism. Hence the removal of these economic barriers would in all likelihood lead to greater representation of racialized people in positions of power, and thus greater institutional power to combat discrimination.
>and thus this is what we can expect will happen
Can you name a single example of a country where racial discrimination got worse under socialism?
>Okay, so settlers get to genocide people and take natives land, and if natives try to take it back then they should die.
Settlers don't "get" to do anything. What happened happened, and it doesn't entitle ethnic cleansing on the part of natives anymore than centuries of discrimination at the hands of Muslims entitled Jews to displace the Palestinians.

 No.553690

>>553683
Post your hand so I know you're not white. Impossible to take you seriously otherwise. You have a lot of settler mannerisms in your posts and methods of thinking tbh.

 No.553693

>>553683
>I am not a settler, I am from a country that participated in settler colonialism
(Britain versus US)
Are you English? Because if so I hope you're okay with being "rehomed" to Germany so that Scots, Welsh, Romans, and Irish can reclaim the land you stole from them.

 No.553707

>>553689
>First, according to that logic, the same is true of non white people. Meaning that they could just as easily invert this structure in their autonomous zones, especially since you are opposed to extending protection from racial discrimination to these areas.

Yeah of course. Luckily, white people have places they can go to escape that, Black and Natives currently don't.

>Even with all the systematic disadvantages, they have been able to carve out a place among the ruling and middle class.


Irrelevant. Black CEOs didn't end systemic racism and neither did electing Barack Obama. Litteral Bill Maher-tier talking point.

>Can you name a single example of a country where racial discrimination got worse under socialism?


I didn't argue it would. Quote me saying that. I argued it would stay around and act as an anchor for class to reterretorialize itself. Class did reterritorialize itself in most socialist societies, usually because of other unresolved hierarchal mechanisms within it.

>Settlers don't "get" to do anything.


Okay, but then, just to be clear; between murdering natives and black people and allowing for settlers to be forcibly moved elsewhere with their livelihoods and safety guaranteed, murdering people is the lesser of evils?

>Are you English? Because if so I hope you're okay with being "rehomed" to Germany so that Scots, Welsh, Romans, and Irish can reclaim the land you stole from them.


No, but to the degree that there are still active settler mechanisms in GB such as in Ireland, yes of course those should be dealt with and reparations paid to the victims of settler colonialism within the British Isles, such as the Irish.

 No.553712

>>549121
Except /pol/ IS IdPol.

 No.553720

>>549175
Gulag pls

 No.553725


 No.553726

>>553707
>Luckily, white people have places they can go to escape that
Yes and they shouldn't.
>Irrelevant
Not irrelevant. If racialized people have been able to advance to their current positions within America's ruling institutions despite the huge disadvantages that come purely from economics, then it stands to reason that the removal of these disadvantages would lead to even more black/native people finding their way into positions of power. The only way this could not be the case is if racial discrimination actually increased relative to its current state, but I see no reason to expect this.
>I didn't argue it would. Quote me saying that.
You said that class would reterritorialize itself through race, but thus doesn't even accurately describe the current conditions wherein racialized people have far more disadvantages than they would under socialism. The only way a new class system could emerge in such a situation would be with a dramatic worsening of racism.
>between murdering natives and black people and allowing for settlers to be forcibly moved elsewhere with their livelihoods and safety guaranteed, murdering people is the lesser of evils?
Between allowing an ethnostate to come into being and not allowing this, yes, the latter is the lesser evil even if it requires force to maintain.
>No, but to the degree that there are still active settler mechanisms in GB such as in Ireland, yes of course those should be dealt with and reparations paid to the victims of settler colonialism
So Anglo-Saxons did not benefit from the displacement of Celtic people? They shouldn't have to be rehomed to put an end to this?

 No.553735

>>553726
>huge disadvantages that come purely from economics

Oops, but purely from income-class otherwise black people's experiences within capitalism would track 1-to-1 with class with no deviation within the US.
It doesn't, so their disadvantages are not purely income related.
They face oppression outside of that, and there's nothing to indicate that goes away with income-class.

>The only way a new class system could emerge in such a situation would be with a dramatic worsening of racism.


No? It wouldn't actually have to get worse. As long as there is a material antagonism, there is a material antagonism.
Now this could easily get worse over time, and I'd expect it to, but that could easily take multiple decades if not centuries to accentuate, and we have very few examples of socialist countries that:

1) are settler colonialist
2) had a socialist revolution
3) did nothing specific to address the indigenous question
4) lasted for decades/centuries.

>Between allowing an ethnostate to come into being and not allowing this


That would not be an ethnostate, Poland didn't become an ethnostate when German colonists were sent home, as plenty of ethnic minorities still remained unoppressed, and if this is your attitude, then you can expect natives and black people to resist you with protracted people's war and it is their duty to do so.
Native and Black people must stop at nothing to end settler violence upon their communities.

 No.553741

>>553726
>So Anglo-Saxons did not benefit from the displacement of Celtic people? They shouldn't have to be rehomed to put an end to this?

To the degree that celtic peoples within the UK experience wealth transfer and oppression upon their communities is to the same degree that we can talk about the necessity of decolonizing the UK.
I am not ruling it out, but from my limited understanding of UK politics, it doesn't appear to me that celts are facing issues directly comparable to that or natives and black people in the US, and to the degree that they are, this too is to be addressed.

 No.553746

>>553726
>Yes and they shouldn't.
But they can, and black people and natives can't. That matters. That's an imbalance.

 No.553774

>>553610
Not a burger, pig. Squeel more, reactionary swine.

 No.553775

>>549407
You messaged them when Langley wasn’t working.

 No.553782

>>553735
>It doesn't, so their disadvantages are not purely income related.
That was poorly worded, I was talking specifically about disadvantages which *are* income related, which is the vast bulk of the problems they face. Economics has been the primary weapon of racism since the 70s.
>They face oppression outside of that, and there's nothing to indicate that goes away with income-class.
Of course they face oppression outside of that, but the disparities between racialized people and whites narrow dramatically when income is adjusted for. They would narrow even further with the advancement of even more racialized people into high ranking positions which would be likely to accompany the removal of economic barriers.
>No? It wouldn't actually have to get worse.
Yes it would. You yourself have admitted that the bulk of the obstacles preventing the advancement of racialized people are economic. Therefore, if current levels of discrimination and racial animosity remain the same, then we can expect the condition of racialized people to improve dramatically, since the main obstacle has been removed without any increase in other obstacles.
>As long as there is a material antagonism, there is a material antagonism.
What material antagonism? You say that whites will be incentivized to award the best positions to whites to the exclusion of others, and that this therefore gives them a material incentive to do so. However this literally applies to any conceivable category of person. Blonde people could only promote blonde people. Left handed people could systematically favour left handed people. The mere existence racial diversity creates the potential to discriminate, but doesn't mean that there is a material basis for it. Even the fact that racial discrimination currently exists doesn't mean that it will remain entrenched and immune to efforts to root it out, which is an effort we can expect racialized people to engage in, and which they will have a greater ability to do when freed from the economic barriers stemming from capitalism. If what you are saying is true, then we wouldn't expect to see such widespread opposition to racial discrimination among the white population already, a position which would necessarily need to be even more prevalent if any sort of socialist revolution is to succeed in America.

Frankly the logical conclusion of your thinking seems to be that races cannot live together without a material antagonism, since so long as there is racial diversity and competition for limited higher-echelon positions, there is a "material antagonism" which could lead to one group being favored over another. No wonder you are a supporter of segregation.
>Poland didn't become an ethnostate when German colonists were sent home
Yes because those colonists were actual colonists, as in people who had been sent just a few years ago to displace the Polish population, with the victims of this displacement still living.
>Native and Black people must stop at nothing to end settler violence upon their communities
The mere existence of white people isn't violence. Being so gripped by racial hatred that you engage in ethnic cleansing however, is.

 No.553792

>>553645
Silence, Yankee scum. We from the third world see through your crocodile tears. You're a reactionary.
>>553693
>Are you English? Because if so I hope you're okay with being "rehomed" to Germany so that Scots, Welsh, Romans, and Irish can reclaim the land you stole from them.
Kek
>>553741
>muh natives and blacks
Let it be shown how this race warrior does not consider the active genocide of Mexicans on stolen land to be relevant. In fact, they don't deserve land back! Nor does Palestine deserve land back (unless they achieve socialism first)!
Woke genocide.
Woke ethno states.
Woke renterism.
Woke reaction!
And remember kids, woke reactionaryism is possible because of materialist conditions of marxist dialectical sublate synethesis materialism.
>>553782
Based post, yet again. If there was any doubt that Land Back is a reactionary position, this conversation has yet again proved it convincingly.

 No.553800

>>553741
So let's say that it was decided that Britain was a settler colony oppressing its remaining Celtic peoples. Let's say that this decision was made regardless of whether or not you agree with it. Now say that you found yourself living in an area that was declared to be part of a Celtic ASSR, and that they decided that they hated you because of your ethnicity and wanted to force you to leave on this basis alone. Would you be okay with this?

 No.553801

Dave Chapelle did a Netflix special and had some jokes on trans ppl. Wokies are cancelling him right now.

 No.553804

Say what you want but Haz is kinda right when he calls land-backers Calvinists. This whole argument is dripping with guilt typical of Christian ethos.

 No.553806


>Dave Chapelle did a Netflix special and had some jokes on trans ppl. Wokies are cancelling him right now.

 No.553818

>>553804
And the worst part is that a lot of them are supposed atheists. Not that I'm surprised of this shit anymore. New atheists basically pushed humanism as a substitute "secular" religion to their flock that lends itself very well to the same guilt shit but from a different angle.

But then again, Christianity couldn't escape the postmodern condition either - contemporary guilt is nothing like the one in medieval Europe. You always get the feeling that these people are actually proud to be guilty.

 No.553827

Kekking hard at Agent Kochinski's Chappelle commentary. His angle:
>Chappelle is actually jelous of the LGBT movement for being more successful than the black movement, this made him a boomer TERF

This whole thing reeks of passive aggressive shit.

 No.553832

>Beyond being inherently disadvantaged by a right-handed bias in the design of tools, left-handed people have been subjected to deliberate discrimination and discouragement. In certain societies, they may be considered unlucky or even malicious by the right-handed majority. Many languages still contain references to left-handedness to convey awkwardness, dishonesty, stupidity, or other undesirable qualities. In many societies, left-handed people were historically (and in some cases still are) forced as children to use their right hands for tasks which they would naturally perform with the left, such as eating or writing.[3] In the late 20th century, left-handedness became less stigmatized, and in many countries, particularly the Western world, left-handed children were no longer forced to switch to their right hand.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bias_against_left-handed_people
Wtf this is literally genocide, clearly there is a material antagonism between right and left handed people. As a left-handed person I should have the right to create a left-handed only enclave and expel right handed people on the basis of their handedness. If you disagree then you literally support right-handed supremacy.

 No.553835

>>553832
HAND BACK

 No.553838

>>552644
Haz almost had a mental breakdown when asked for citations lmao.
This man retarded

 No.553840

>>553832
>mfw I have ambidextrous privilege
And lefties are correct to a degree. Everything is designed for right-handed people, to the point that I don't even bother using my left hand for a lot of things since it's just more awkward in many cases because so many things aren't designed to be used left-handed. This is pretty bullshit.

 No.553841

Cenk uyghur:
>HAHA, DAVE CHAPPELLE THINKS THAT ALL TRANS PPL ARE LYING, THAT'S LIKE SAYING BLACK PPL ARE ALL LYING ABOUT COPS

The fuck is up with liberals immediately attacking Chappelle's ethnicity when their pet peeve issue gets criticized in a comedy show?

 No.553842

>>553832
if left handed people want to be treated like human beings they should campaign for there to be enough right handed scissors in school so that the children who suffer from being, shall we say, slow, are not condemned to have to use left handed scissors because faster children took all of the right handed ones. that is my strongly felt view for no reason in particular.

 No.553848

>>553841
>The fuck is up with liberals immediately attacking Chappelle's ethnicity
scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
They are all still racist as fuck, but they control themselves in public (most of the time) because they know that racism is not acceptable. However, when presented an opportunity where they think it's justified they will immediately say something racist (same goes for other kinds of bigotry too). Instead of learning to not be a racist they deal with racism by repressing it.

 No.553858

>>553735
Noticed you didn't answer my post about your skin color. Your so white you glow. Stop putting your settler ideology in the mouths of actual indigenous people, you're doing Orientalism.

 No.553879

>>553782
>That was poorly worded, I was talking specifically about disadvantages which *are* income related, which is the vast bulk of the problems they face. Economics has been the primary weapon of racism since the 70s.

Yes, I know that. That doesn't matter. The fact that there are ways that racism manifests itself regardless of income means that that will have to be addressed separately of the issues of income, otherwise they will remain even if income is evened out.
I am not arguing that this is as bad as class struggle, just that it is an antagonism that exists separately of it and as such must also be dealt with on its own torsm.

>Of course they face oppression outside of that, but the disparities between racialized people and whites narrow dramatically when income is adjusted for.


Narrows, but never disappears, so it doesn't matter.

>Therefore, if current levels of discrimination and racial animosity remain the same, then we can expect the condition of racialized people to improve dramatically


Yes, I agree. If class struggle is dealt with, then black and native people do better on the things that effect their lives particularly on class issues. That's truism, of course they do.

>However this literally applies to any conceivable category of person. Blonde people could only promote blonde people. Left handed people could systematically favour left handed people


Yes indeed, but there are no established systems of left-hand supremacy in the US, and we have no good reason to suspect that one would be conjured out of the aether. White Supremacy, however, has been around for a long time and has reached the critical point of self-sufficiency and being an identifiable social phenomenon, unlike blonde supremacy.

Therefore, we have pragmatic and historical reasons to fear white domination within society, something that actively exists today, unlike left-hand supremacy and blond supremacy, that do not and are unlikely to arise.

>If what you are saying is true, then we wouldn't expect to see such widespread opposition to racial discrimination among the white population already


Indeed, and we aren't. White Americans usually oppose anything that contradicts white supremacy. Even people who claim they are against it, support policies that de facto establishes white supremacy.
Settlers benefit for this White Supremacy and the fact that they do largely have prevented wider leftist organization within the US.

>Yes because those colonists were actual colonists, as in people who had been sent just a few years ago to displace the Polish population, with the victims of this displacement still living.


No, some of them had been living there for generations.

>Frankly the logical conclusion of your thinking seems to be that races cannot live together without a material antagonism


No, they can. But there is one. And that mechanism was established over hundreds of years, and it's going to take something very drastic to get it to get under self-sustaining critical mass again, and to thus dismantle the practicality of the material gain of White Supremacist discrimination. Much more than just sensitivity courses.
Yes, the races absolutely can reintegrate, but until white supremacist discrimination is no longer a viable strategy for social advancement within society (which it will be if black and native people have no political assemblies to protect them), then consolidation of races in society is IMPOSSIBLE because there is an active system of systemic racism with historical roots that individuals can reap dividend from by paying into it.

>The mere existence of white people isn't violence.


So white people getting to murder natives or black people in retaliation for something lesser than murder is just their "existing". Are you saying that to be white is to murder?

 No.553882

>>553848
>scratch a liberal and a fascist bleeds
Hence the Pink (Woke)->Blue (Neolib)->Brown (Fash) alliance

 No.553883

>>553848
>Instead of learning to not be a racist they deal with racism by repressing it.
Good observation.

 No.553885

>>553800
>Would you be okay with this?

Yes. I would be slightly inconvenienced by having to move somewhere else with full recompensation, but if that was the price for healing their community and ensuring the end of the anti gaelic genocide, sure, I wouldn't complain.

 No.553886

>>553879
>Are you saying that to be white is to murder?
You have brainworms. I pity the foo who tries to engage w you in good faith.

 No.553887

>>553832
Are you comparing this to racism in the US? Disgusting.

 No.553890

>>553886
Wish he was banned tbh. If he is trolling it is getting boring and if he is serious then he is a lunatic that shits up the board.

 No.553891

>>553858
I am a white person interested in the abolition of class, and that requires decolonialization or it reterritorializes class within society along racial lines.

 No.553893

>>553885
If it takes me willing to have 3 prostate examinations for a decade to heal the native community I'd gladly do it. That's how much a better person I am than you.

 No.553896

>>553886
>>553890

This was a /pol/ "convert" hugbox for a little while after the purge and on bunkerchan too, but we're under new management and you're free to cry about it

 No.553897

>>553893
>Vice signaling

3.14 dogecoin has been deposited to your account

 No.553899

>>553896
At least use a name so I can filter you

 No.553900

>>553891
>reterritorializes
At least be open about being a Deleuzian and not a Marxist.

 No.553902

>>553891
> that requires decolonialization
Not necessarily

 No.553906

>>553902
Well it does, otherwise racial supremacy is upheld, and this creates a mechanism of an exploiter race and a worker race, sort of what could be seen within Sparta.
Therefore ending ethnosupremacy within a society is crucial to the actual abolition of class in a way where class cannot re-establish itself along other lines.

 No.553907

>>553902
It requires decolonizing this board. I want my right to be away from shining path anon.

 No.553908

>>553906
>exploiter race
You are a nazi but woke.

 No.553909

>>553906
>it does
So what would decolonization in Burgerstan look like?

 No.553911

>>553908
Pink/Brown
Fed IdPol

 No.553912

>>553908
No.
I'm not saying that's how it is NOW.
I'm saying that is what would establish itself in non-decolonized socialism.

 No.553914

>>553909
It would look like giving black people and natives self-determination in independent ASSRs with the opportunity to rehome people that have settled on their land against compensation.
It would then require extensive infrastructure and industrial investments to ensure that the lack of developmental progress is done away with so that black and native communities are brought up to be equal in all socio economic ones to settler communities.

 No.553916


 No.553926

>>553915
Well, yes white supremacy is real. Settler communities have wealth disproportionally transferred into them and black and native people disproportionally are victimized even accounting for income.
What however isn't true today is that class antagonism is primarily around race mechanisms, but if white supremacy is upheld into socialism, then we could easily see a Sparta situation with an ingroup that establishes socialism for itself and benefits from the exploitation of out-groups.

>>553918

And in such a case they're obliged to wage protracted people's war upon genocidal settlers.

 No.553929

File: 1634582864709.png (813.58 KB, 1048x964, Untitled.png)


 No.553932

File: 1634582984945.png (66.71 KB, 1018x410, Untitled.png)


 No.553934

>>553930
If "International communism" is when settler communties get to call the shots and get to kill them for trying to organize their own political assemblies, then yes, that is to be resisted with absolute militancy.

 No.553937

>>553929
why isn't the thing noticer posting this? This is a legitimate problem for the west

 No.553938


 No.553943

Last time they polled blacks in America over black separatism, only 14% supported it.

>The survey was based on 45-minute telephone interviews with 1,206 black Americans randomly selected across the US.

>Only 14 percent want black people to have their own separate nation.
https://www.csmonitor.com/1994/0505/05013.html

The vast majority support reparations however.
https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/28/us/reparations-poll-trnd/index.html

Predictably, most blacks care for their material interests, not forming new ethnostates where there's no guarantee their lives would be any better.

 No.553945

File: 1634583430628-1.jpg (49.67 KB, 930x558, 3828.jpg)

>>553879
>Narrows, but never disappears, so it doesn't matter.
It does matter, because if the gap narrows to a significant enough degree, then your entire scheme becomes far more trouble than it's worth for everybody involved.
>Yes indeed, but there are no established systems of left-hand supremacy in the US
There are established systems of right hand supremacy.
https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2014/12/why-lefties-make-less/383635/
There are also systemic biases against ugly people, fat people, people with Southern accents, etc. Should all of these groups get their own exclusive zones with the right to expel others? Are all of these not potential axes along which material antagonisms can emerge? What about colourism among black people? Should light and dark skinned black people get their own homelands? What about women, should they get a homeland?
>Indeed, and we aren't. White Americans usually oppose anything that contradicts white supremacy.
That's demonstrably false. Numerous civil rights movements both recent and in decades past have drawn considerable support from white people. Over one third of white Americans agree that more needs to be done to help black people achieve equality.
https://www.pewresearch.org/social-trends/2019/04/09/race-in-america-2019/
Most Canadians agree that racism remains a serious problem in Canada.
https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2021/05/21/survey-shows-most-canadians-agree-racism-is-a-problem-and-black-people-are-dealing-with-the-worst-of-it.html
White people had a noticeable presence among George Floyd and Standing Rock protestors, as well as the Civil Rights movement in the 60s, pics related. The evidence shows that at least a large minority of white people acknowledge and oppose ongoing systemic racism.
>Even people who claim they are against it, support policies that de facto establishes white supremacy.
That also applies to literally everybody who isn't a socialist, since we both agree that capitalism is the primary tool of white supremacy. This of course includes most black and indigenous people.
>No, some of them had been living there for generations.
And those people shouldn't have been made to move.
>So white people getting to murder natives or black people in retaliation for something lesser than murder is just their "existing".
Obviously lethal force would only be used by the state if it was warranted, as in all situations when dealing with dissent. What I said was that I support the use of state power to protect people from racial discrimination. I never said that I supported vigilante racial violence by white people.

 No.553949

normal people: videogames, settler colonialism, did you hear about the netflix special, have you watched squid game, don't follow this fatfur artist they're actually a nazi, are you following the big climate conference, how's animal crossing going, defend pol pot from revisionist propaganda

me: wish i knew how to teach myself a canadian accent for esoteric comedy bits

 No.553950

>>553934
>and get to kill them for trying to organize their own political assemblies
Now you're doing Motte and Bailey. The issue isn't whether or not ASSRs or political organizations for minorities should exist. The issue is the status of non-racialized people who find themselves living in these areas. If they are guaranteed equal rights to everybody else living there, including the right not to be arbitrarily deprived of their personal property and homes, and protection from any and all forms of racial discrimination, then I have no issue with it in principle.

 No.553951

>>553929
Video games are OVER

thank you Carltural Marx and Frank Furthschool!

 No.553952


 No.553953

>>553949
>wish i knew how to teach myself a canadian accent for esoteric comedy bits
Step 1: pretend your mouth is full of peanut butter
Step 2: refer to all inanimate objects as "she"
Step 3: say "eh" and "fuck" a lot
Step 4: refer to everyone as "buddy"
Step 5: pluralize things unnecessarily

 No.553955

>>553936
>It does matter, because if the gap narrows to a significant enough degree, then your entire scheme becomes far more trouble than it's worth for everybody involved.

What trouble? It's literally just giving natives and black people reparation and political institutions to safe-guard them so we can make sure that racial discrimination, even if marginal, has safe-guards against it. What trouble is there in any of that.

>There are also systemic biases against ugly people, fat people, people with Southern accents, etc. Should all of these groups get their own exclusive zones with the right to expel others?


I don't know. None of these have the same origins or have been as central to American society as race have, so while I wouldn't categorically rule any of them out I have seen no evidence that any of these categories are meaningfully the same within US society to race and would therefore require their own homeland.

>What about women, should they get a homeland?


I mean according to Democratic Confederationism and the PKK, women are to be given their own political assemblies to protect them from patriarchy and male domination in the Middle-east and I entirely support that model, as it has proven a very successful model to combat Patriarchy within the middle east, one of the most patriarchal places on earth.

>Over one third of white Americans agree that more needs to be done to help black people achieve equality.


Your numbers prove my point. Two thirds don't.
I am not claiming that literally all white people are racist, that's not how materialism works, what I am saying is that white people tend towards racist or race-blind tendencies because they directly benefit from those stances.
I am glad when white individuals chose to go against that, ofc course, but overall there's a lot of resistance towards it in white populations, and that's largely to be explained by material reasons, ei. that white people as a sociological phenomena generally benefit from white supremacy.
I do not deny the existence of non-racist white people, that's a straw-man.

>And those people shouldn't have been made to move.


Why not, no harm came to them and the Polish people were granted their ability to organize their own affairs.

>What I said was that I support the use of state power to protect people from racial discrimination.


So you support the state murdering people to protect from white genocide?

 No.553956

>>553943
What is even reparations? A one time check for every black person? Racists would love this shit, tho: "you've been repaid, you can't complain anymore."

 No.553958

>>553950
>The issue isn't whether or not ASSRs or political organizations for minorities should exist.

The comment I was responding to was about that, so you should read what you're responding to before replying.
The other Anon said that even ASSRs are out of the question and that's what I responded to. No Motte, No Bailey.

 No.553959

>>553955
Would you cut your own balls off if it meant that colonization ends?

 No.553961

>>553956
Reparations ideally are not just a check written out to black individuals. Black people have historically not mainly been hurt as individuals, but been hurt as communities, and as such it is to their communities that reparations are owed. As such, reparations ideally take the form of infrastructure and industrial investment and development of the relevant geo-communities

 No.553963

>>553961
Please tell us more about black people honkey

 No.553964

>>553958
Are you saying that the ASSRs work in the same way as to Autonomous Regions of China? Honestly, what you’re describing is not much different than what China’s doing.

 No.553967

>>553964
I mean kinda, sure.
There would be relevant differences due to the differences between the national question in the US and the China ofc, but the Chinese system, despite it's flaws, would be a huge step in the right direction in terms of decolonialization.

 No.553976

>>553963
I'm an expert of blackness and nativeness. Got my SJW diploma in Harvard.

 No.553995

>>553979
It's when you accuse somebody something and take the denial of the accusation as evidence that it's true.

 No.553996

>>553964
>What China is doing
So capitalism?

 No.554001

>>553955
>It's literally just giving natives and black people reparation and political institutions
It also means carving out huge swathes of territory where many people will suddenly be deprived of their right to protection from racial discrimination.
>so we can make sure that racial discrimination, even if marginal, has safe-guards against it
Except we know that this won't actually work, since they tried this in Yugoslavia and the USSR and you yourself admitted that Serbian/Russian chauvinism persisted in these countries.
>I mean according to Democratic Confederationism and the PKK, women are to be given their own political assemblies
"Political assemblies" is extremely vague, and in no way is equivalent to being granted exclusive control of a territory with arbitrary powers of discrimination against people outside the chosen group who happen to live there.
>what I am saying is that white people tend towards racist or race-blind tendencies because they directly benefit from those stances
If nearly 40% of the white population tends in the exact opposite direction, them this tendency is clearly quite weak. Imagine if 40% of porkies supported communism.
>but overall there's a lot of resistance towards it in white populations, and that's largely to be explained by material reasons
The best material explanation is that they benefit from it within a capitalist context, wherein there is an artificial scarcity of housing, employment, and education. They are also constantly bombarded with racist ideology which was for decades deliberately spread by the ruling class and largely still is. Yet despite all this, a large minority of white people are still able to recognize and oppose systemic racism. When these ideological and material elements are removed, as they would be in a socialist society, the number of whites who hold progressive racial views would in all probability only increase. This would happen simultaneously with an increase in the social mobility and institutional power of racialized people, thus rendering the gap in racial discrimination even smaller.
>Why not, no harm came to them and the Polish people were granted their ability to organize their own affairs.
They had the ability to organize their own affairs anyway.
>So you support the state murdering people to protect from white genocide?
I didn't mention genocide, but if a minority group is so gripped by racial hatred that they attempt to force another group out of their communities because of their race, then I support the intervention of the state to protect the people being victimized. If the perpetrators won't listen to reason, if they persist in their actions and make lethal force a necessity to disperse them and repress their openly counterrevolutionary ideas, then I support its use.

 No.554014

Step 1: make an outrageous claim
>land back woke ethno nationalism
Step 2: recede your claims until they are impossible to deny
>imagine a scenario where america is socialist. Dont you think socialists should be nice to native americans?
Step 3: claim this was your point all along
>if native americans arent treated with basic dignity then its not socialism
Step 4: retreat to your original point, back to step 1
>ethno state blood and soil is a necessary part of the socialist agends

 No.554024

>>554001
>deprived of their right to protection from racial discrimination.
In one aspect and in one aspect only, in one specific context, yes, and we have no idea how "huge" these swathes or land are going to be considering they have to house and sustain like 15% of the US population.

>Except we know that this won't actually work, since they tried this in Yugoslavia and the USSR and you yourself admitted that Serbian/Russian chauvinism persisted in these countries.


Yeah, but the self determination within them helped IMMENSILY in curbing russian and serbian domanances, comparing to the societies they came out of. Indeed, it can easily be argued that it was Russian and Servian unwillingness to give up supremacy COMBINED with assemblies that could resist that supremacy that lead to the break up of both. The solution there is not to make oppressed peoples unable to resist ethnosupremacy, but to make sure that the supremacist population does not cause those autonomies to leave by refusing to relinquist their supremacist position.

>The best material explanation is that they benefit from it within a capitalist context, wherein there is an artificial scarcity of housing, employment, and education.


There's a scarcity of those until we hit Full Automation, and a white supremacist system could easily resist full automation just to perpetuate itself. That's also how capitalism works. The bourgeoisie prefer a poorer world where they dominate over a wealthy one where they can't.

>This would happen simultaneously with an increase in the social mobility and institutional power of racialized people, thus rendering the gap in racial discrimination even smaller.


Even smaller isn't none, and the goal here isn't just a little bit of white supremacy it's NONE, because ethnosupremacy can devolve into a classed society and has done so historically.

>but if a minority group is so gripped by racial hatred that they attempt to force another group out of their communities because of their race


Okay, but this ignores ALL context. A = A is liberal positivist thinking.
If white people try to force black people out, they have no black to go where they can reasonably expect to thrive, and white people have no good historical reason to distrust black people. Black people aslo weren't injected into white communities in order to prevent white self-organization.

White people being rehomed have LOTS of places to go and reasonably expect to thrive, and black and native people have LOTS of rational reasons to distrust and/or hate white people AND white people were explicitly implanted in their communities to hinder black and native organization.

These are the super relevant reasons why you can't just equivocate between all kinds of rehoming like it's universally the same regardless of context.

>>554014

Quote the motte, then quote the bailey.

 No.554031

>>554001
>If nearly 40% of the white population tends in the exact opposite direction, them this tendency is clearly quite weak. Imagine if 40% of porkies supported communism.

40% whites don't support decolonization. This would be like if 40% of porkies said "things are bad for the poor and should get better for the poor". Yes, I think I could find 40% that agrees with that. The fact that 60% DON'T agree with the most milquetoast statement that something should be done about racism speaks volumes.

 No.554036

File: 1634587557698.png (286.56 KB, 704x599, img_7143.png)

When we get our land back, we will remove libs who make claims to it.

No land for urbanite white people larping as Lakotan Zionists on the internet.

It was stolen by gringo pigs once, we will not let it happen again.

 No.554048

>>554031
>>554024
>>553967
white hands typed these posts

 No.554051

File: 1634587901884.png (1.1 MB, 1200x628, ClipboardImage.png)

>Working on undisclosed but ultimately irrelevant government facility
>Doing EXACTLY what me and all other interns were trained to do
>Get put on a series of struggle sessions for doing so
>Today I went through the longest one yet, nearly an hour, they even make me stay in the office 20 minutes after my shift is over
<anon, THIS is how we've been doing it all this time
>they litterally started doing it after we started
>get told to shut up when I try to explain their method is gonna cut our productivity in half

I don't care if it is an ancap/neoliberal talking point, public offices are a place were the human soul goes to die. Nothing short of burning down every single document in existence will make me happy.

 No.554054

>>554024
>In one aspect and in one aspect only
An aspect with massive repercussions. If they can be removed at any time, then how can any of their other rights be secure? If they face discrimination in employment, if they are prevented from voting, etc how can they address any of these if they aren't even protected from displacement? I still see no reason why any of this would even be necessary. Why does the establishment of ASSRs necessarily require the right to exclude people based on race? What is wrong with an autonomous region wherein all groups equal protection from discrimination? I'm fairly certain that SSRs in the Soviet Union were not empowered to expel people on the basis of their ethnicity.
>The solution there is not to make oppressed peoples unable to resist ethnosupremacy
You are fundamentally mistaken in assuming that autonomous regions are necessary to resist ethnosupremacy. Racialized groups are still perfectly capable of fighting for their rights on many fronts both within and outside the state apparatus.
>There's a scarcity of those until we hit Full Automation
No there isn't. There are already more available homes than homeless people, and more can be built. Even the USSR achieved universal housing, employment and universal access to education (provided one had the grades).
>Even smaller isn't none, and the goal here isn't just a little bit of white supremacy it's NONE
Obviously, but maybe we should examine the results of socialism and anti-racist ideology on their own before we go around carving the country up into ethnostates and declaring that people can be deprived of their rights if they're the wrong race in the wrong place.
>Yeah, but the self determination within them helped IMMENSILY in curbing russian and serbian domanances
Just as socialism, even if race blind, would help immensely in curbing white dominance for reasons I've described, and to which you largely agree.
>Okay, but this ignores ALL context.
There is no context which justifies racial hatred. It's an inherently reactionary belief in all contexts, and it needs to be mercilessly rooted out and eliminated.

 No.554055

>>554051
important detail: today was the first time they actually told me "what was wrong", before it was just some nebulous "do it again, but better this time"

 No.554057

>>554051
you don’t think private workplaces look like this?

 No.554059

File: 1634588119082.png (116.44 KB, 1202x380, ClipboardImage.png)

Hegelian rapper

 No.554063

>>554057
Asides from a couple of bad experiences with dumbass petit burg that went bankrupt to the surprise of no one, my experience in the private sector was mostly better. Nobody scoulded for the training they gave me and people would not scould me for doing more than I was asked.

And yes, explotation, yadda yadda, I should not be working extra for free, but try actually doing nothing inside the firm, time moves like molasses mixed with cement.

 No.554077

>>554051
>>554055
The purest synthesis of careerist and retard are whom manage government offices.
Tbh, you should try to get into management. You do it by actively insisting on it and "working above your paygrade" but in administrative tasks. It's shit work while you're trying to get it, and it's hard to do it if you're apathetic. But it's not as hard as people think it is.

 No.554098

>>554054
>If they can be removed at any time, then how can any of their other rights be secure

They're placed within a massive SSR that doesn't allow any kind of discrimination except for reparative rehomings.
The reason it's relevant to guarantee this is because letting white people settle it how native autonomy was historically undermined and how they were genocided.
As such, to reestablish native self-management *might* (although is not guaranteed to) include the reversal of the process that undermined it in the first place.

>Racialized groups are still perfectly capable of fighting for their rights on many fronts both within and outside the state apparatus.


Yes, by building their own institutions and dual power to resist that apparatus. What you're suggesting is that black people should not have their own himelands, because they can always organize to undermine the existing one. That is obviously not a stable model.

>I'm fairly certain that SSRs in the Soviet Union were not empowered to expel people on the basis of their ethnicity.


Well, they were and did. That's how all the Germans got out of Poland.

>Even the USSR achieved universal housing, employment and universal access to education (provided one had the grades).


But not all of these are of equal quality. Even if technically everyone can have a job and technically everyone can have a house, some jobs are better or rank higher in the hierarchy, and the members of an already existing racial ingroup would absolutely have an interesting in monopolizing these. There would be an individual incentive to make sure that all things else being even, the decision would fall in favour of white people. Homelessness and unemployment doesn't matter in this calculation, as long as their is a hierarchy to be monopolized upon that there is material interesting in monopolizing.

>Just as socialism, even if race blind, would help immensely in curbing white dominance for reasons I've described, and to which you largely agree.


Yes, but this discussion is not about whether we should do EITHER socialism or self-determination of Black and native people. The socialism is already assumed. The homelands is something on top of that, so it doesn't matter if socialism is better than capitalism to this argument. Everyone concedes that. That is not the discussion we're having.

Also, no it wouldn't curb white dominance, just lessen how bad black people experience their everyday lives. They woulnd't face class antagonisms, but still face race antagonism, and sure that's better than nothing, but that can't be the whole of it.

>There is no context which justifies racial hatred.


Sure, if some group murdered 100 million of your people the reason you hate those people is in no way comparable to the reason that white people hate jews, either historically or morally.
They are quite simply two different phenomena with two different origins and as such are to be handled differently by people who believe in dialectics.

 No.554105

>>554054
>If they face discrimination in employment, if they are prevented from voting, etc how can they address any of these if they aren't even protected from displacement?

I mean all of this could be solved by just having all rehomings be a part of the agreement by which the ASSRs are even established, so that the ASSR can move out all white people of an area once it is established and then never following that again, but I figured myself that it was more likely that so few would have to be rehomed that it was better to do ad-hoc on an individual basis and wouldn't be a problem at that level, but it could be done en-masse upon establishment of the ASSR too, sure. Idk if that would be my preference though.

 No.554142

Everyone go easy on Gonzalo-Land-Back poster, he's said before that he's only 15. He should be revising for his GCSEs rather than be on here. The best thing to do is not to reciprocate, not to reply to him - it'll encourage him to step back from the computer and do his homework.

 No.554143

>>554098
>The reason it's relevant to guarantee this is because letting white people settle it how native autonomy was historically undermined and how they were genocided.
No, allowing white people to arbitrarily claim massive swathes of land as their own private property, followed by systemic displacement and murder by the US/Canadian government is what caused them to be genocided. The mere presence of whites in native communities isn't going to lead to another genocide, especially if they're a minority in the ASSR and the state actively prohibits racial discrimination instead of carrying it out.
>I mean all of this could be solved by just having all rehomings be a part of the agreement by which the ASSRs are even established
According to that logic the best solution to racism is to just "rehome" every racial group into their homelands. "If you don't like it you can leave" is a terrible approach to racial discrimination, and not in the slightest conducive to reconciliation and overcoming race as a construct.
>What you're suggesting is that black people should not have their own himelands, because they can always organize to undermine the existing one. That is obviously not a stable model.
No I'm not saying that, because I don't consider black people organizing to fight for their rights to be "undermining" white society. On the contrary I would see it as an essential component of strengthening socialist society by combating racism and forging a more complete unity of the working class. I would consider it the patriotic duty if racialized people to resist discrimination.
>Well, they were and did.
I'm gonna need a source on that. I know for a fact that many ex-SSRs have large Russian minorities to this day. The same is also true of Yugoslavia, where there were significant minority populations of various groups outside of their designated republics, such as the Bosnian Serbs.
>But not all of these are of equal quality. Even if technically everyone can have a job and technically everyone can have a house, some jobs are better or rank higher in the hierarchy, and the members of an already existing racial ingroup would absolutely have an interesting in monopolizing these.
What you are describing as a "material antagonism" will probably never go away so long as any social hierarchy and division of labour remains. There will never be a situation in which everybody can hold a high ranking position, in which everybody can live in the best available housing. If your belief is that such an antagonism necessitates granting each race a homeland, then the only conclusion one can draw is that racial harmony is ultimately impossible (the unforseen consequences of the higher stage of communism notwithstanding), and that the races are best kept separate but equal.
>Also, no it wouldn't curb white dominance
Yes it would. Again, as we have seen, black people have been able to ascend to positions of power and influence even in the current society. If they have stable jobs, good education, safe housing, if they are free from mass incarceration and benefit from the active promotion of anti-racist ideology, then we can expect them to ascend to the highest echelons of society in even greater numbers. This would put them in positions of power where they can counteract any remaining bias in favour of white people. What I would like to know is why you are hostile to assessing the results of this development before considering the creation of ASSRs. Moreover we should assess the results of ASSRs wherein everyone has the same rights before we consider allowing people to be forcibly removed.

 No.554146

File: 1634592321274.jpg (256.89 KB, 1080x1392, IMG_20211018_232315.jpg)

Least retarded breadtuber

 No.554156

>>554146
Just sounds like mental gymnastics to justify calling yourself a patriot based on…Nothing really.

 No.554160

>>554143
>The mere presence of whites in native communities isn't going to lead to another genocide

That's… not what I am saying. What I am saying is that white people were sent to settle on native land to destroy the native communities as a political force. As such, settlers on native land are not gonna lead to another genocide, settler communities on native land is playing an active role in an active genocide, that is to say that unwelcome settler presence IS the genocide, it is that thing which is destroying natives as a political community.

>According to that logic the best solution to racism is to just "rehome" every racial group into their homelands.


No that doesn't follow. Not all people everywhere are settlers, sent there to destroy a community. As such, as the origin of different diaspora are different, not all diaspora as to be treated the same.

>"If you don't like it you can leave" is a terrible approach to racial discrimination


Agreed, luckily that's not what is being suggested by either this or the model I recommended. You'd have to quote the part that implies this for me to respond to that.

>I would consider it the patriotic duty if racialized people to resist discrimination


Okay, but this also means active resistance to the state and creating dual power outside of its structures, perhaps even going so far as protracted people's war.
If people have to actively resist the system and create new systems outside of the system to thrive, then that system is inherently unstable and inherently tends towards conflict.
A much better solution is where one where native and black people don't have to resist and undermine the structures within society in order to know safety.

>I know for a fact that many ex-SSRs have large Russian minorities to this day.


Yeah, because largely they didn't just do that, because it's uncommon for natives to even want to do that. In Poland however, they did.

>What you are describing as a "material antagonism" will probably never go away so long as any social hierarchy and division of labour remains


Yes, sure. That is why each people need a homeland where they have a guaranteed place where they know they will not be subject to discrimination. This is what necessitates it and perhaps if we're lucky, slowly dismantles the already established hierarchies of discrimination within each state. At the very least, they provide a mechanism by which people can ESCAPE discrimination, even if it is truly impossible to solve issues of discrimination before FALC.
And that pressure valve, that escape, the security is crucial.

>and that the races are best kept separate but equal.


Strawman, none of this is segregationism. Segregationism and separate but equal was made for different reasons, managed by different people and had other concrete policies. You can smear it by equivocating with white supremacist systems, but within dialectics we'd know that's an empty equivocation.

>Yes it would. Again, as we have seen, black people have been able to ascend to positions of power and influence even in the current society


Quick question: do you believe that the election of Obama as president was relevant to whether or not systemic racism still exists in the US or not?

>If they have stable jobs, good education, safe housing, if they are free from mass incarceration and benefit from the active promotion of anti-racist ideology


Yeah, and they'd ONLY do that if we assume that white supremacy is already dismantled and there is no in-group bias between white people in higher echelons of society. Your premises rely upon your conclusion.

>What I would like to know is why you are hostile to assessing the results of this development before considering the creation of ASSRs.


Why? Black people and Natives are not safe in that system, they have nowhere to go to escape systematic discrimination. Why not do ASSRs and if that doesn't work out, see if they agree to dissolve? Why are the interests of settlers to be considered before that of native and black people?

 No.554162

File: 1634593581007.png (367.36 KB, 615x484, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.554168

>>554146
BOG Occupied Government

 No.554173

>>554146
his squishy face is untrustworthy

 No.554204

>>554173
Don't forget about his squishy balls

 No.554214

ham to the griller

 No.554216

File: 1634597111931.jpg (43.9 KB, 640x480, IMG_20190423_021130.jpg)

>open discussion of building ethnostates, even on leftypol
>last week a guy is told to leave the 7/11 I frequent due to starting an argument, calls the other guy a "fucking chink"
>local chapter is having an interior squabble on representation because the community outreach group leaders (of 7 total) have two white women on it
>previous incident involving a motion on creating a reparations group; vote fails, woman who spearheaded it storms out of the room calling us "crackers and house coons" before she quits
>tweeting "rest in power" about colin powell

>mfw the trope of black people are the real racists actually starts becoming a thing

 No.554225

>>554216
Left libs are the most toxic of wreckers.

 No.554230

haven't done this in quite a few years… would you guys mind if i called colin powell a dumb uyghur?

 No.554236

>Ethnostates are great and would solve all problems!
<What, how?
>Because I'm owed it. I deserve this.
<That wasn't the ques…
>Racist!!

This conversation has have been long, polite, informative and indistinguishable from zionism. Good thing there are no good examples of how that looks like.

>>554233

I can't believe Twitter lets Musk keep his penis as a profile picture.

 No.554241

>>554233
Why would we refute something that's true. Most Americans that call themselves communists are social war drones, exactly what he is implying.

 No.554244

>>554233
Comatoast would like a word with him.

 No.554256

>>554216
>Anon learns that the radlib noble savage narrative about muh BIPOC's being hyper progressive libs is a straight up meme that only white people believe in & that these groups primarily vote "left" out of opportunism & due to a sense of collective ethnic solidarity

Anon, this isn't "starting to become a real thing" it has always been the case. Actually sit down and talk to some black/brown people, whether westerners or immigrants & you'll find that they align with "the far right" on most issues. Ask some black people what they think of Asians or latinos what they think of blacks most Indians what they think of Kashmir & Muslims, etc. The big radlib "POC" narcissists are largely putting on an act. Watch how quickly a progressive, sakaist super queer radlib Indian college activist DSA cadre turns into a nazi tier brahmin chaivinist RSS/BJP supporter the minute they start talking about Indian politics or set foot back there.

The woke shit is legitimately a kind of racket designed to reserve social mobility for upper class segments of particular ethnic communities. It's pety bourg protestionist politics hidden behind a mask of idpol, they promote this shit for the same reason white people back in the day prevented black/brown people from going to their schools or moving to the suburbs, it's about protecting the economic/class status of their children, preventing competition by limiting social mobility of out groups. Boomers did this on a weird self centred/individual generational level which is why you need like 50 years of experience and unreasonable level of education to get a shitjob, it was about making sure younger people couldn't compete with them and take their jobs until they retired.

The appeals to morality/emotionally charged shit is just surface politics, it's all a bourgeois/pety bourgeois racket wrapped up in a mask of moralism.

 No.554259

>>554241

Bloody spy!

 No.554261

File: 1634599432940.png (67.22 KB, 645x770, ClipboardImage.png)

>>554233
>yelling about communism because no gf
Nothing new here.

 No.554262

File: 1634599453662.jpg (Spoiler Image, 72.46 KB, 518x800, pol pot titties.jpg)

>>554233
just post this lol

 No.554266

File: 1634599887016.gif (913.84 KB, 220x164, awoooga-awooga.gif)

>>554262

nice tits bro

 No.554271

>>554233
What >>554241 said, most western so called "communists" are weird degenerate mentally unstable weenies with neon hair.

It's clear he's posting this because he's butthurt over his ex's dumb attention whoring on twitter though, she was clearly posting that shit as a dig at him lol. Grimes is clearly either BPD or a narcissist, posing as a communist to pwn Elon is like the equivalent of dating some black gang banger to piss off your conservative Dad. Unironically we should encourage her to escalate, if she gets enough affirmation we may be able to exploit her daddy issues and meme Stalinist Grimes in reality.

 No.554278

Critical support for Comrade Grimes in her task of mass education and agitation.

 No.554280

>>554271
> meme Stalinist Grimes in reality.
Yes, exactly. I feel like the right is really doing a good job at memeing "communism" into existence. If everything you do makes you a "communist" then it's not a scary word or idea any more, it's something normal. So reading actual communist texts is just a short step.

 No.554287

New Channel 5 (previously all gas no breaks) just dropped. Allegedly might be taken down soon due to controversial topic (covid and right wingers)

>>554280
Same with trans acceptance IMO. The right freaked out so much about it that people realized transphobia was dumb. At least in my circles. Ymmv.

 No.554290

>>554271
>most western so called "communists" are weird degenerate mentally unstable weenies with neon hair
Post a picture of a sizable communist or even antifa protest were this assertion holds true.
Should be super easy.

 No.554291


 No.554293

>>554278
>>554280
We actually need to make this a reality. Whether it actually actualizes into anything doesn't matter, it'll be absolutely fucking hilarious as a meme.

Starting a thread in Siberia about this.

https://leftypol.org/siberia/res/166086.html

 No.554294

>>554290
Protip: Whenever someone uses "degenerate" unironically you can instantly dismiss their opinion.

 No.554301

>>554290
Gonna counter that by saying I haven't seen a picture of any kind of group of American communists where the majority actually looked like stable, well adjusted & healthy human beings. Some mix of weird obese goblins, anorexic drug addicts, neon hair or otherwise BPD-ish looking women and autists who apparently can't dress themselves.

Just about at any photo, it's fucking bizarre.

 No.554302


 No.554308

>>554287
Why do you get banned for transphobia here yet you can be ableist?

 No.554310

>>554302
Kek
>>554308
Hey Langely, clocked into work a little late did we.
Why do you think that's the case?

 No.554313

>>554290
portland anti-fascists protestors
these guys wear black masks for a reason, i can tell you that much

 No.554316

File: 1634602945584-0.jpg (92.39 KB, 688x1280, FCBF48vXMAI0-tB.jpg)

File: 1634602945584-1.png (71.04 KB, 1500x500, FCBF6u5WUAEusTP.png)

>>554308
Why is Dave Chappele getting cancelled for "anti-semitism" and "transohobia" when the guy's entire act is taking the piss out of everybody?

Transsexuals & Jewish people are currently at the top of liberal progressivist imagined oppression pyramid. It shifts every 5-10 years, by the end of the decade transsexuals are going to be denounced & thrown under the bus by whichever "oppressed group" is determined to be at the center of great, never ending historical march towards "progress". My guess is transsracials or otherkin or something.

"Ableism" is never going to carry much weight despite disabled people arguably being the most "oppressed" group in western society because disability is something which disproportionately effects the lower class & outside of pharmecuticals etc there isn't as much potential to market it as a consumer fad.

 No.554317

File: 1634602953572.jpg (67.8 KB, 1024x544, This glows.jpg)

>>554308
>Why do you get banned for transphobia here yet you can be ableist

 No.554318

>>554280
>bernie sanders normalizes the word socialism
>rightoids freak out and normalize the word communism
>now people are starting to read shit

>>554287
>Same with trans acceptance IMO. The right freaked out so much about it that people realized transphobia was dumb. At least in my circles.
Well yeah but the freakout type of shit was always what was behind people having a problem with the transhumanisterinos. They went mask off and people realized what they were supporting. SImilar thing may be happening with anti-communism now. Like lots of normies repeat muh 100 gorillion dead without understanding where that comes from. If normies saw those people saying how they really felt about the holocaust it would probably make them think twice about repeating the 100 gorillion meme again.

 No.554322

File: 1634603109911.jpg (23.64 KB, 539x379, EksIy3aW0AEIsK-.jpg)

>>554233
some communist should shoot that pos already

 No.554323

>>554280
>If everything you do makes you a "communist" then it's not a scary word or idea any more, it's something normal.
it's actually some kind of rallying cry tbh

 No.554324

>>554316
Holy fuck. You’re right. Polyamorous is probably going to be the next oppression IdPol hoax

 No.554329

>>554322
It’s amazing how the libs cancelled him because of his comment on pronouns but not this imperialism

 No.554334

>>554324
>Polyamorous is probably going to be the next oppression IdPol hoax
Polyamorous isn't an identity though. What would that even be about? Just normalizing alternative relationships and maybe trying to change the legal definition of marriage to accommodate more than two people (and what a nightmare polyamorous divorce would be).

 No.554335

File: 1634603376524.png (105.25 KB, 350x245, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.554336

>>554322
If you're serious then you should do it yourself.
If you're not serious then you shouldn't joke about it.
Stop being a larper.

 No.554338

>>554334
The liberals and pink leftists are not going to shut up about it. That’s the exact problem.

 No.554342

>>554324
Polyamorous, pedophillia, whatever. It could just as easily be traditionalist shit, just so happens the progressivist strand of liberalism won out. Ashkenazi Jews are going to be thrown under the bus at some point too although that's going to take a little longer, probably not until Gen X start dying off, until then perceived anti-semitism is going to be as much of a sacred no-no as transphobia is today or homophobia was 10 years ago.

15 years ago it was all about identifying as metrosexual or bisexual. Then it became genderqueer & pansexual and I don't even know WTF it is now. The shifts occur in 5-10 year intervals, once an idea becomes noramlized & milked dry they move onto some new trend. There are lots of people identifying as trans now because that is where the marketing & the money are, in 10-15 years they'll go the same way as the metrosexuals, accusations of "transphobia" will be increasingly less weight and the big thing will be identifying as a wolf or as transracial or whatever.

 No.554343

>>554336
i'll joke about whatever i want. deal with it.

 No.554346

>>554343
Maybe you could do it on twitter then, with all the other teenage rebels.

 No.554352

>>554346
maybe you can stop being an autistic robot and not get triggered by people sublimating feelings of powerless anger through hyperbole, especially on an anonymous imageboard where there can be no penalty for posting such things in contrast to twitter. retard.

 No.554366

File: 1634604277707.png (846.16 KB, 678x452, ClipboardImage.png)

>>554334
>(and what a nightmare polyamorous divorce would be).
No civil lawcase can ever possibly be harder to get around than declaring bankruptcy of a company. It's a decade at a minimum, and at least 20 companies, let alone PEOPLE, involved.

>>554324
I'm betting on the american refugees that will have to escape the fucked up coast lines now that global warming is only gonna get worse.

>>554216
Slightly altering what the other anon said to fit reality, there are oportunists and reactionaries in every community, but they can't join most neolib parties.

>>554146
Yup. Even gotta admit, he was right about the "Left is not communism" meme I joked about a couple months ago. To equate communism with leftism is to give liberals underserved clout.

 No.554369

>>554351
>>554352
didn't musk advocate violence on twitter? how come not in jail?

 No.554399

File: 1634606556786-0.png (347.18 KB, 474x313, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1634606556786-1.png (552.81 KB, 640x480, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1634606556786-2.png (1.14 MB, 960x640, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1634606556786-3.png (526.39 KB, 640x427, ClipboardImage.png)

>>554301
>Just about at any photo, it's fucking bizarre.
I looked up communist and anarchist protests on a web search and they looked pretty normal cross-sections, even in the pictures used by explicitly anti-left publications (pic 2 is Breitbart). I don't know what to tell you.

 No.554408

>>554343
Someone shoot this pos anon already.

 No.554416

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coVxNAYPzWo

>rightfully pointing out that Hasan is a rich hypocrite ordering a wastefully expensive PC despite claiming to be a socialist

>makes a shitton of jokes about how socialists are lazy and make terrible products and you need market incentives for everything
>makes jokes about how socialism is stalin and gulags and the KGB and becoming an unperson
>LTT's massive audience is seeing ALL of this

What the FUCK is Hasan's problem? Why did he do this?

 No.554419

>>554216
imagine letting people who act like that into leadership positions
There's no way there aren't (diverse) workers in the area who would be better suited. It's just that this kind of wrecker personality always claws their way to the top. The more I see this type of thing the more I think sortition is a necessary component of a functional leadership role. If you allow people to get there by """"""""""merit"""""""""" the wrecker dipshits will find a way to game that system.

 No.554422

>>554416
They even unironically did the "COMMUNISM HAS NEVER BEEN TRIED" thing

 No.554423

>>554416
>What the FUCK is Hasan's problem? Why did he do this?
He's an attention whore.
Linus also pointed out that Hasan made LTT pay for the PC components instead of doing it himself, despite having more money than them.

If this isn't peak grifter I don't want to see what is.

 No.554432

>>554416
being a socialist is when u don't buy commodities

 No.554435

>>554416
this is some of the most potent cringe i’ve ever recieved. just looking at the thumbnail gives me that feeling of visceral nakedness.

 No.554438


 No.554440

>>554432
It pretty much boils down to this. This is why it's difficult to justify the merits of communism to liberals regardless of your social status.

If you are poor and a commie: You are lazy and want free stuff
If you are middle class and a commie: You are a hypocrite for purchasing commodities
If you are rich and a commie: You are a hypocrite for going against your class interests

It's all so tiresome. The current structure of society is not automatically justified simply because you are born into it and forced to partake in it.

 No.554453

>>554416
…..











…..

 No.554455

>>554432
if a socialist has bad taste (i.e. likes expensive commodities) you should bully and rob them

 No.554456

>>554416
what am I seeing? I know ltt but who is the other one?

 No.554457

>>554416
>inb4 he installs windows instead of an RMS-approved OS
jesus fucking christ he did

>they didn't map .com to communism

Absolute hacks.

 No.554459

>>554457
I love RMS but using curl inside emacs from a laptop designed for African kids is peak autismo

 No.554462

>>554316
ableism isn't going to pick up steam unless it gets gutted of its meaning (lumping in weirdo internet "neurodivergent" types with paraplegics) and/or the rich and famous start calling themselves disabled

 No.554465

>>554459
Yeah for sure. I'm not that far-gone.

FUCK NORMALFAGS FUCK USERS FUCK FEATURES FUCK NON-PROGRAMMERS THJIS POST MADE BY SUCKLESS GANG SUCKLESS GANG

 No.554468

>>554216
>storms out of the room calling us "crackers and house coons" before she quits
>tweeting "rest in power" about colin powell

 No.554470

holy shit this bitch is STILL crying on twitter and making herself the victim at every turn

she's been doing this for years and doesn't just quit the app

 No.554473

>>554470
You just described a quarter of twitter.com

 No.554478

>>554473
the bitch with IBS

 No.554481

>>554478
we’ve narrowed it down to a tenth of twitter.com

 No.554483

>>554440
>If you are poor and a commie: You are lazy and want free stuff
>If you are middle class and a commie: You are a hypocrite for purchasing commodities
>If you are rich and a commie: You are a hypocrite for going against your class interests

Doesn’t help that these notions get reinforced by ConLibs.

 No.554496

File: 1634612032938.jpg (74.6 KB, 770x600, pepe pipe.jpg)

How do I ban evade on 4cuck? I got perma'd despite doing nothing wrong or illegal

 No.554501


 No.554507


 No.554508

>>554496
easy, you fuck off.
if youre actually banned and not shitposting, join their IRC and appeal.

 No.554515


 No.554517

GET IN HERE AND TALK TO CALEB.

 No.554531

>>554501
This guy is kinda based. I fall upon his videos and expected cringe shit but he is actually way better than what I could possibly have thought.

 No.554547

>>554440
Tbh it's a pretty effective ideological trap. Liberals are too stuck in individualist mindset to even understand that we're talking about changing the economic system. Their idea of changing things is buying the right products. It's like Zizek says about unknown knowns. They don't realize how much they're presupposing because capitalism has pretty much encircled the planet at this point.

We really should work on a proper answer to this, but it has to be strong enough to break through not only the pro-capitalist memes, but challenge the very stratum of people's life experiences. It's like trying to explain to a fish a world without water. I don't think it's possible to fix this rhetorically. We have to deal with it materially, such as through an organization that can do things for people without the need for commodity exchange at all. Prioritize the people who can be converted faster to build the movement, and work with them to find a way to bring in more normies.

Also it should be noted that tech bros are going to be among the very worst people when it comes to anticommunist narratives, ranging from the muh iphone argument to the general consooooomer mentality where their life revolves around buying next product. It shouldn't be surprising that a dipshit nerd like Linus spouts reactionary dogshit like that. His life's work is buying expensive consumer electronics and doing wacky shit with it for an audience of teenagers. This is not the place to expect anything remotely approachable to us, so you shouldn't take his retardation as representative of anyone but idiot STEMlords.

But I think if we're talking about rhetorical responses to this kind of shit, it really just needs to be subtle as a 2x4 to the face. Something like "You sure are confident for someone who's illiterate on the subject" or "In communism those graphics cards wouldn't be made with third world child slavery." Go for the throat, either on their knowledge of the subject being utter trash or on the system they endorse being monstrous. If you can find something actually shocking to say, do that. People spout these anticommunist memes because they grew up hearing them, and some people (moreso any audience listening) may just need to have the nonsense put into perspective for once.

 No.554549

>>554535
>Whites' are one of the only races you're allowed to hate
You better tell that to the millions of racists out there.

 No.554561

>>554547
The problem is all of these people are wannabe trolls so if you say something violently confrontational that will just make them happy that they made you mad.

 No.554568

>>554561
>The problem is all of these people are wannabe trolls
I don't think that's the case most of the time, but when it is that's actually a lot easier. Just bait them into saying something ghoulish like they want to do.

 No.554575

>>554568
I hear people say horrid shit all the time and suffer no consequences for it. Like every liberal was like "Trump's really gonna get his comeuppance this time!" every time he said something even more insane then before, but nothing ultimately happened.

 No.554583


 No.554589

>>554575
The idea is that if someone is like that you see it and recognize they're a lost cause. When it's productive is if there's an audience of some kind (like with Linus). Some of the audience will get alienated if they see someone mildly famous saying something horrid.

 No.554595

>>554575
But that is the scary shit, because Trump was dancing to the tune but now you got a bunch of liberals that wont flinch at overt censorship and cheer to blatant propaganda lies as long as it fits within their Avengers movie mindset. Nothing matters in media anymore however disgusting they are because "fake news" means you only need to be on "the right side of history" or "the good guys" or woke enough to feel reassured you are without reproach.

For example,liberals are likely going to abolish/replace sec230, literally a catchphrase for Trump, and fucking cheer as all social media gets officially integrated with the NSA to combat "misinformation" and "Putin bots". And rightoids will do worse with even less need for pretexts.

IMO this culture war and reaction spinning is not destabilizing politics, it's fortifying it against outsiders.

 No.554596

Adorno and Horkheimer: Dialectic of Enlightenment and The Culture Industry

 No.554599

>>554256
not disagreeing at all but what can be done here? It's strangling class consciousness when part of your supposed comrades refuse to read or engage with anything written by a white person

 No.554603

>>554547
>We really should work on a proper answer to this, but it has to be strong enough to break through not only the pro-capitalist memes, but challenge the very stratum of people's life experiences.
Connecting radical rhetoric with people's real-life experiences and connect the two. My brother and his wife are getting turfed out of their rental house by the landlord who wants to flip it. It's like the meme about "we've got news for you: you're moving!" Sucks for him. But it's good for the landlord who makes a living speculating on housing. Think about who the winners are and who the losers are, and it's pretty obvious.

I think this goes for the class struggle but also democratic struggles. The BLM protests wouldn't have escalated as much as they did if the police didn't show up and go ham on people. It's one thing to argue about it abstractly, and a different thing to physically be there when the cops roll up in force out of nowhere and aggro on a peaceful crowd. Social media can amplify these things.

>But I think if we're talking about rhetorical responses to this kind of shit, it really just needs to be subtle as a 2x4 to the face.

Pretty much.

In terms of the spirit of it, I like the way the Russians do it in some internet videos. Like, I know USSR nostalgia gets memed a lot, and this is just an example, but it feels different and one reason why that is might be because it was their fucking country and it's their history so it feels like it has a lot of conviction and power. There's no irony or cynicism here. I've started to rethink nostalgia a bit too, because what starts out as nostalgia and gets interpreted as a disease might turn into something more serious. I'm reminded of the second paragraph of the 18th Brumaire.

>>554568
>Just bait them into saying something ghoulish like they want to do.
"Teachers by negative example."

 No.554604

>>554596
Bayyysed. Gonna listen to this. We need more Frankfurt School stuff like this. They've been badly misinterpreted and some leftists have not been above reproach in that effort.

 No.554605


 No.554609

Infracels just keep winning!

Is it over bros, have they finally won?

7-Foot Harambe Statue Stares Down Wall Street's Charging Bull, Which Is Now Covered in Bananas
<Harambe was shot dead in May 2016 by Cincinnati zookeepers who feared for the safety of a toddler who climbed into the gorilla's enclosure
https://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/7-foot-tall-harambe-statue-stares-down-wall-streets-charging-bull-which-is-now-covered-in-bananas/3330853/

>A 7-foot-tall bronze statue of Harambe, the Cincinnati Zoo gorilla that made national headlines in 2016 after picking up and carrying around a 3-year-old boy who climbed into its enclosure, then getting shot, appeared on Wall Street Monday.


>The giant gorilla was placed in Bowling Green Park, directly across from the famous Charging Bull statue, which was surrounded by 10,000 bananas (that will later be donated to local food banks and community fridges) to make a point about wealth disparity.


Torposter, can't into images

 No.554611

>>554575
part of why people don't trust msm anymore

 No.554616

>>554547
This is also good, I think

 No.554646

I just watched the Dave Chappelle Netflix special. Funny how the woketards forget to mention the part of his bit where Chappelle tells the story how is fellow trans comedian got bullied into suicide after defending him on Twitter by the same woke hivemind. He set up a trustfund for the transperson's kid too.

In any case, a hillarious bit from the special, Chappelle was told before a show that transfags are after him:
>watch out, Dave, they are after you!
<you mean one they or many theys?

When having to face the Comedy Central censorship department:
>Dave, you can't say "faggot" on the show!
<How come I can say uyghur on the show but not faggot?
>you see, Dave, the thing is, you are not gay…
<well I ain't no uyghur either!

Hillarious stuff, would recommend torrenting.

 No.554653

Well it's not wrong though. That's what breadtubites and their ilk look like. such is the state of modern western "leftists".

 No.554654

Lmao

 No.554656

>weird people find their way into movements that don't shit on them
Quelle surprise

 No.554657

What is imperialism? Feat. Hakim - azureScapegoat

 No.554658

>>554596
They were CIA.

 No.554660

Nice self-own, He literally married one of those

 No.554662

>>554496
two ways

a. reset your router to dynamically change your ip.

b.
https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Special:Log&limit=1000&type=block

Wikipedia keeps an updated list of banned proxies, just use any recent one and there's like a 60% chance it's not banned or blocked on 4cuck. This option needs some proxy extension like foxyproxy

 No.554664

I thought he dumped Grimes
Is she moving on already?

 No.554668

>>554660
He dumped her already. Never married

 No.554671

>>554668
>>554664
i don't even know what would possess anybody to let the muskrat dump a creampie inside them, absolutely disgusting.

 No.554672

File: 1634627072985-0.jpg (203.03 KB, 1400x1050, FuturismFallingDown.jpg)

File: 1634627072986-1.jpg (990.06 KB, 2000x1252, FuturistItalyMural.jpg)

File: 1634627072986-3.jpg (148.53 KB, 1075x1200, FuturistTown.jpg)

>>554669
ThingNoticer I…

Pic related would have been thought of as 'bad art' that looks fucked up and shitty in the 1920s or whenever.

 No.554673

>>554671
Probably the money. Anyhow, I'm hoping some cheap Chinese electric cars destroy Elon Musk's business in the near future but he'll probably be fine.

 No.554674

>>554668
So he's just a simp then

 No.554675

lmao imagine a white nationalist anime account tweeting at rap music reviewers for clout
then posting it here

 No.554677

>Read Thuletide.
>Look that up.
>Articles on race, technology, ecology and metaphysics.
Guys i found ThingNoticer's blog.

 No.554678

File: 1634627364221.png (29.17 KB, 662x185, 58435839045.png)

>>554673
Also FWIW

 No.554681

>>554648
Woah Musk is seething on our board right this moment
We've come so far

 No.554682

>>554677
I posted his youtube channel once.
Jannies deleted my posts

 No.554683

>>554669
>>554669
>Thuletide
<epic race realist dude

 No.554685

>>554646
>Hillarious stuff, would recommend torrenting.
I watched it for a few minutes and didn't laugh once at any of the jokes so I turned it off.

 No.554686


 No.554687

>>554673
The chink government is metaphorically sucking Elon's big cock.

 No.554688

>>554682
Post it again, fuck the jannies

 No.554689

>>554678
Elon is building Lithium mines and processing plants in the US

 No.554690

>>554688
Nah, fuck this cesspit of a site.

 No.554691

>>554687
I thought it was the reverse.

 No.554692

>>554690
Understandable

 No.554693

>>554691
Tesla was granted the right to own their shanghai factory 100% without interference of retarded CCP cadres forced into leadership possition like all other chink companies and foreign subsidaries.

 No.554694

>>554673
>Probably the money
Cope, she wanted Elon's huge Boer Cock.

 No.554695

>>554694
Elon pumped up that prime white pussy and got a baby out of it without having to part with half his cash by marrying her

Smart man.

 No.554696

>Target Hairline
<Actual Hairline

 No.554697

>>554696
Tbh if I could afford it I'd get a hair implant without a question. They cost a lot

He looks way better

 No.554698

Looks like some muskrats are here, who would have thought

 No.554699

>>554698
pol wishes they were pumped full of apartheid cum like grimes

 No.554701

>>554697
Bald trauma is a meme

 No.554702


 No.554703

File: 1634629718185.png (18.83 KB, 901x341, 58345834905345.png)


 No.554704

didn't realize you can move a thread into another thread. even 4cuck doesn't have that feature.

 No.554705


 No.554707

File: 1634629864525.jpg (80.63 KB, 602x452, 676546546546.jpg)

>>554704
The megathreads and merge function is how leftypol nationalizes bait threads. The method devours the bait. Nom nom nom.

 No.554751

>>554596
This is cool. Thanks for posting.
We really need two internet general threads. One from drama and bullshit. And another for more quality entertainment/education.

 No.554762

>>554703
Damn that's slick

 No.554763

>>554751
The problem is that one man's quality education is another man's bullshit.

 No.554769

>>554763
Nah. Nobody seriously believes Aimee Tereses tweets are educational. Or the latest Haz, Caleb, breadtube drama being anything educational, I hope.

 No.554823

>>554769
I've learned a shitton from Haz. I even read his books.

 No.554850

A communist (as in, communist) once recommended Voush to me (they thought I was left-lib-grill).

What are your thoughts on Agent Kochinski as a gateway drug, akin to Bernie Sanders?

 No.554859


 No.554921

I uploaded Calebs sex video to Hypnotube a month or so ago can you find it.

https://hypnotube.com/

 No.554942

>>554850
He’s the oppisite. He makes you less radical and your thinking far far worse.

 No.554961

>>554160
I just wanted to let you know that everybody thinks this idea is retarded and it will never get serious traction. Wanting autonomous zones is one thing, but unironically thinking that legalizing discrimination, ethnic cleansing, and segregation will somehow improve race relations is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Also for somebody posting under a Maoist flag you seem to have a very poor understanding of the difference between antagonistic and non-antagonistic contradictions. Either that or you consider race to be an antagonistic contradiction, in which case I would consider you to be a flavour of /pol/tard.

 No.555016

File: 1634649156315.jpg (1.09 MB, 1600x1563, Amerikkka.JPG)

I don’t get it, aren’t most westerns pretty silent on the Indian question?
And which one holds the gun slinger as a moral watermark?

 No.555017

File: 1634649234381.png (196.93 KB, 645x770, HAZ infrared wojak.png)

>>554921
nobody is going to click on that gyno link Haz stop it, no one wants to see your tits

 No.555026

>>555016
The entire American Patriotism is a a distraction. It is a literal psyop.

<“Red” patriotism is quite clearly, even self-consciously, [5] a reaction to a global rise in indigenous and anticolonial nationalisms, especially within the settler-colonies. It is a reaction to movements for the return of land, for reparations, and for counter-sovereignty.


<Patriotism is—make no mistake—just nationalism by a different name, designed to appeal to a more educated, liberal strata.


Also since more petit-bourgies are more likely to be consciously politically patriotic than actual working class (who are likely apolitical, since they don't have the time) it is easier to get financial backing and lots of donations, see Infrared for instance. His amount of subscribers and donations exponentially grew when he started his Revolutionary MAGA arc.
He went from barely 100 dollars a month to 5k a month

https://www.peacelandbread.com/post/how-should-socialists-approach-nationality

 No.555030

File: 1634650161331.jpeg (61.25 KB, 1200x959, What Westbrook.jpeg)

>>554823
>I've learned a shitton from Haz

 No.555031

>>555016
>I don’t get it, aren’t most westerns pretty silent on the Indian question?
They vary a lot. Some of them demonize natives heavily, others do a noble savage trope, still others portray them as ordinary people just trying to survive. Some don't even feature any indigenous characters if they aren't relevant to the plot.
>And which one holds the gun slinger as a moral watermark?
Idk about a moral watermark, but they definitely glorify them. I think that the thrust of the comic has more to do with the erroneous portrayal of the American West as a land of romantic outlaws, when in reality most settlers only arrived after the US government had cleared an area of natives with military force.

 No.555033

>>555026
<“Red” patriotism is quite clearly, even self-consciously, [5] a reaction to a global rise in indigenous and anticolonial nationalisms
If by "indigenous and anticolonial nationalism" you mean openly reactionary Sakist nonsense then sure, and this is a good thing.

 No.555053

Honestly, reading Marx and other left-prophets (engels, lenin, etc.) are pointless at this point. You can get the same information much more entertainingly and in bite sized bits from ppl like Haz.(go fuck yourself)

 No.555055

>>555053
Baka, get better bait.
>>555033
>>555026
Red patriotism and sakkkaist nonsense is leagues worse than plurinationalism, and peoples emancipation. The abstraction of Native Americans as a nation is reactionary IMO. If the emancipation is for a specific native american community, in a concrete place with concrete demands, then that makes sense. Unless that demand is ethno fascism, like has been teased here by our resident sakkkaists.

Cities have nations in themselves and to abstract them away as essentially ethnic, cross cultural, cross geographical, is ridiculous. It's like the idea that all black americans are one big national ghetto with basically identical culture, which is what is portrayed in media to a large degree. And once that de-abstract-ification, or concretization, is made, then the demands are clear, and who they impact is clear, which would include anyone facing similar oppression, not necessarily on ethnic lines. Eg. Poor white people living in predominantly poor black neighborhoods are well aware of police bullshit.

 No.555057

File: 1634653828531.jpg (32.91 KB, 680x671, 1619490503040.jpg)

>>555016
>spouting shit about truth
>while propagating a lie about border patrol whipping people
The irony is staggering.

 No.555059

>>555055
>Red patriotism and sakkkaist nonsense is leagues worse than plurinationalism
What do you mean by plurinationalism? It should be noted that insofar as America can said to constitute a single national entity, it does so through civic rather than ethnic means, which in turn means that there is of course room for near endless ethnic diversity within the framework of the American nation.

 No.555067

>>555057
not really. it looks more like the agents are whipping them in the real photos than this cartoon

 No.555069

>>554961
Well the thing is that what I care about are establishing homelands for natives and black people to have places where they can go if the antagonism of white supremacy is unresolvable before FALC

It's you that keeps obsessing with wanting to use state violence against them if thry rehome settlers, something several socialist countries have done and largely did no harm.
I mean my stance on it is just one of ambivalence, it's you that want to justify state violence and haven't really do so thus far.

 No.555070

>>555067
No it doesn't.

 No.555078

>>555067
The thing is it doesn't matter, US treatment of immigrants hasn't gotten any rosier whether you got a few yahoos larping with horses or not. But by publishing questionable narratives they drag the conversation into liberals vs rightoids and their consumer media choices, while muddling the waters.

 No.555086

>>555059
Plurinationalism in the sense that different cohesive communities with different needs exist within cities, with distinct culture, history, and sometimes even the accent is identifiably different. Even "ubran tribes" are something like this. Some areas of some cities were devoured by the city expanding, and as such have a different historic origin, different needs, etc.

What is reactionary, is erasing all these differences into a unified nation, and even worse when it tries to speak for the entire virtual nation. The correct approach should be distinct community identities with the recognition of shared struggle. An example of this are the indigenous struggles in Mexico, where the Zapatistas have been organizing "networks of resistance" and identifies different "pueblos" (peoples) as distinct but sharing similar struggles. In this case it has colonial characteristics, including resettlement, extreme violence, and dispossesion of land, but I digress.

My point is that when the indigenous "network of support" makes demands, it doesn't make vague "lamb snacks" demands. It makes concrete demands, in concrete places, for a concrete people.

Plurinationalism, I mean it in no different way than what the zapatistas strive for, "a world where many worlds fit".

As I see it, in our current context, especially in the west, people are becoming a sort of multi-nationals. The same machinery that gave us idpol makes people seek and identify with different urban tribes, sometimes they exist only virtually. Identities as demarcated by idpol are also nations. Of course, by this point the essence of what a nation is has become so murky that even Harry Potter hard-core fans are somehow a virtual online nation.

Zooming out, you have concrete nations in the traditional sense, eg the Yaqui people in Mexico, the quasi-nation of oppressed people like LGBT, and all the way to virtual cohesions of people, mostly mediated through commodities, eg punk rockers, Harry Potter fans.

Trying to unify all of these identities and mixed nationalities in one single nationality is a fruitless project, IMO. What I think the correct approach is, is to identify these phenomenon and give them a class character. In a way, find the class component of these identities/nations, and unify them among other nations/identities, acknowledging the similar struggles faced between them.

Instead of doing the edgy anti-consumerist communism, maybe the correct approach is building class consciousness in consumers and as such, consumer solidarity across class lines. Eg. Harry Potter media that is not democratic, making the community get together in solidarity.

Obviously the Harry Potter example is the worst of all, but the point is to understand people in their identities and not force them to be other identities, including forcing them to identify as an employee or as an American. Communists should meet people where they are, be inclusive of everyone on their terms, not on traditional "unified employee" terms.

Sorry for the wall of text, I hope it's not all bullshit.

 No.555093

>>555069
>it's you that want to justify state violence and haven't really do so thus far.
It's justified because the constitutional protection from racial discrimination should be universal. Segregation, ethnic cleansing, and discrimination are antithetical to a socialist society and should be banned. Racial hatred and a desire for ethnic isolation are openly counterrevolutionary concepts that need to be crushed. Tolerating any of these makes ethnic strife more likely, not less. People who do not accept this, and who try to put their reactionary ideas into practice need to be repressed.

 No.555102

>>551859
Mostly. The FBI is great at it

 No.555107

>>555055
Plurinationalism is pretty patriotic. The MAS in Bolivia is a pretty patriotic party. It just means that your nationalism is not ethnic, and made up of all self-determined nations within (similar to Chinese or Russian nationalism). Sakaiists are just spergs

 No.555109

>>555069
Can you explain to me why natives and blacks need to be segregated from white people and will never be able to live with them? The ills caused by racial tensions are a result of capitalist economic relations.

 No.555111

>>554769
Aimee Terese barely identifies with Marx at this point so what's there for a communist to even gain? She can't even get anything out of the attention and it seems to only atomize her further. At least you can learn how people market/monetize themselves in a clout economy from breadtube drama and see how zoomers can get caught up in microcults.

 No.555116

>>555093
>It's justified because the constitutional protection from racial discrimination should be universal. Segregation, ethnic cleansing, and discrimination are antithetical to a socialist society and should be banned. Racial hatred and a desire for ethnic isolation are openly counterrevolutionary concepts that need to be crushed.

Why? What's the materialist dialectical explaination that population transfer is universally bad versus contextually bad?
Do you understand the difference between what the USSR did and what South Africa did?

Nothing is universally bad outside of it's context, so what is the context for Stalin moving Germans to Germany, and what's the context for Hitler moving Jews into ghettos? Are these contexts the same? Are you thus claiming that population transfer is abstractly bad regardless of material circumstances? Why?

 No.555118

>>555086
>all identities = marketing demographics
You nailed that part, but why do you think we could make use of it ?
We do not want Politics as a commodity, we want separation of political power from purchasing power.
If we pander to marketing demographics, we replicate the same politics, where political influence is proportional to financial power.

 No.555122

>>555016
It's even lamer than that lol. The cowboy image was a marketing gimmick to sell cigarettes because they were seen as "feminine" compared to cigars. Burger masculinity is so pathetic they needed a macho archetype to be invented so they wouldn't feel like a pussy for using the smaller sized cancer candles.

 No.555123

>>555109
They don't need to be segregated from whites, but they need homelands where they are know that white supremacy is impossible where they can go if the overall SSR fails to uphold its promises of dismantling white supremacy and a strata of white technocrats uphold white supremacy within it. That's not to say that whitw people ans natives and black people should not intermingle, in fact it's good that they can, but black people and natives need speciffic political institutions of their own to ensure that they have some secruity from discrimination.

 No.555124

>>555123
>>555116
stop posting cumskin

 No.555128

>>555118
I don't think we can escape the commodification of every single aspect of our lives, including revolutionary activity. The solution would be to come to terms with this and work with it, not against it. Is there a way to subvert and resist commodification? And in a wider scope, is it even possible to escape the spectacle? Everything we do as revolutionaries is eventually wrapped into, and eventually sucked into the spectacle.

It seems it's impossible to reject the spectacle and resist commodification. So maybe we should explore ways to work with it, subvert it from within.

An insane example would be the concrete demand for free access to Harry Potter Clone Wars on HBO for everyone, organized by redditor Harry Potter fans. Demanding free shit.

In terms of the LGBT struggle, a similar thing happens. Trans people are dying homeless in my city and the big players are handing out money to the most corrupt and disgusting LGBT orgs who spend the little thats left on free condoms on Tuesdays.

I'm trying to envision a situation where different communities offer solidarity in simply demanding shit. Unions, non shit LGBT organizations, communist orgs, Harry Potter fans.

At least acknowledging their virtual identity as a real phenomena might help to think things differently.

 No.555132

>>555116
>Why? What's the materialist dialectical explaination that population transfer is universally bad versus contextually bad?
Because there is no situation in which such a thing would be constructive or conducive to positive relations between groups of people who have to inhabit the same country.
>Do you understand the difference between what the USSR did and what South Africa did?
I don't have to view them as equivalent to view them as both being mistakes, and in Stalin's case a right deviation.
>Nothing is universally bad outside of it's context
So is there a context where white supremacy is a good thing? Where fascism is a good thing?

 No.555134

>>555123
>but they need homelands where they are know that white supremacy is impossible
Bruh you already admitted that having a homeland doesn't make white supremacy impossible! You already admit that the central premise of your entire argument is flawed.

 No.555138

>>555128
>capitulate to the sell-outs,
This is how absolutely nothing gets done.
If you are not just a social climber looking to monetize socialism as a brand, you should go back to reading Lenin on building dual power, synthesize the principles and adapt it to modern conditions.

 No.555147

>>555053
>(go fuck yourself)
>>555055
>Baka, get better bait.
Forgive me, comrades.

 No.555151

>>555069
>rehome settlers
Lol

 No.555160

>>555138
>just adapt it to modern conditions bro! synthesize the principles!

 No.555161

>>555132
But what if creating institutions that protect natives and their interests are more important than "racial harmony". Who is realistically harmed by post revolutionary rehomings?

>>555134
Well I said that White Supremacy was possible within the larger SSR yes, but granting Natives their own ASSRs would make white supremacy impossible within tbose ASSRs or at the very least give black people and natives the means to organize against white supremacy, politically and militarily, if it should remain in the main SSR.

 No.555163

>>555132
>>555132
>So is there a context where white supremacy is a good thing?
There is no currently existing context in which white supremacy is not harmful or genocidal, no, and we know that because of the real and historical contexts of white supremacy.

 No.555166

>>555086
>with distinct culture
You have to be a burger to believe this. Looking at the US from the outside, burger ethnicities have the same postmodern culture, occupying seemingly different positions, which are seemingly in conflict, but if you put these supposedly 'radically different' ethnic cultures under a thorough lens, you can not but conclude that they share the same basic formal structure, being the culture of "originelessness" spiked with the denial of said condition.

If you want a typical example: "WE WUZ" shit. Alt-righters WUZ vikings and shit, black ppl WUZ building pyramids n' shit, "native" Americans WUZ close to mother nature n' shiiieet, Haz WUZ muslim mongols n' shiet, Caleb and Unruhe WUZnords n' shiet…

It's the symptomatic autopoiesis with the same underlying ideological structure, as far as I can tell. And I do think that Chapofags, namely Matt, has a point whenhe says that "US culture is McDonalds, Wallmart, etc."

 No.555171

>>555128
>I don't think we can escape the commodification of every single aspect of our lives, including revolutionary activity. The solution would be to come to terms with this and work with it, not against it. Is there a way to subvert and resist commodification? And in a wider scope, is it even possible to escape the spectacle? Everything we do as revolutionaries is eventually wrapped into, and eventually sucked into the spectacle.
Pure defeatism, imo.

 No.555188

>>555128
Just out of interest, are you a l/acc guy?

 No.555198

>>554658
No they were not. The CIA funded projects in social sciences and art world wide.

 No.555201

File: 1634665720648.png (6 MB, 2646x1498, ClipboardImage.png)

Full Class: Squid Game + Lacan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zE1Gq3LbDI4

 No.555209

>>555161
>But what if creating institutions that protect natives and their interests are more important than "racial harmony".
They aren't, because racial harmony is the only thing that can ultimately eliminate racism. If autonomous regions grant people reprieve from discrimination in the short term but don't lead to an overall decline in racial animosity in the long term, then they are ultimately counterproductive and opportunist.
>Who is realistically harmed by post revolutionary rehomings?
A better question is who would benefit? You deny believing that races shouldn't mix, so you obviously believe that different races are perfectly capable of living together. So what possible justification could there be to forcibly remove people because of their race? What good could possibly come of allowing arbitrary deportation? To allow>>555163
involuntary "rehomings" is to provide state sanction to racial resentment, and to invite reciprocal action from white people in their own homelands. It would create a group of disgruntled displaced white people, who would in turn provide a basis for reaction (unlike you, most people aren't cucks who would so easily accept being forced from their homes because of their race, even if they were provided with new ones). In short, it carries many risks with no appreciable benefit.
>Well I said that White Supremacy was possible within the larger SSR yes, but granting Natives their own ASSRs would make white supremacy impossible
White Supremacy is impossible inside any community that lacks white people. That doesn't mean that white supremacy will dissappear in the rest of the country, or that exploitative relations between white and minority areas would vanish.
>There is no currently existing context in which white supremacy is not harmful
I would say the same about segregation, ethnic cleansing, and racial animosity. Therefore the state should under no circumstances tolerate such things.

 No.555216

>>555209
Even as a "quote unquote Dengist" I tend to cringe at notions of and appeals to "harmony… " Ultimately I think it is a stopgap analysis/proposition.

Whenever a fag says "racial harmony" I think of cretins posing as "woke,“ ngl.

 No.555217

>>555055
>Eg. Poor white people living in predominantly poor black neighborhoods are well aware of police bullshit.
honestly this is i think a helpful point that helps me understand things a little better. racialization is a result of capitalists trying to make certain racial groups second class citizens, but it manifests through the destabilization of communities as well. there are poor white people in these communities who face the consequences of this movement even though they are not the prime targets. moreover, racialization does not mean that bourgeois of these racial groups do not exist. there are black bourgeois, sure, but they are often integrated into settler communities instead. i don't think black settlers should be impossible. i would like to hear what sakaist anon thinks of this

>>555209
>What good could possibly come of allowing arbitrary deportation?
this is the issue with this entire argument. what good IS arbitrary deportation? this anon has never actively advocated for it. he merely said that he would accept it if it was decided this was necessary. that's why the hypothetical is particularly foolish. people keep insisting on bringing up, when there is no clear reason WHY indigenous people would conclude that they would need to deport everyone who isn't like them

you can't just entertain hypotheticals without having a plausible explanation for why they should be salient. but if there was a plausible explanation, then the hypothetical deportation would NOT be arbitrary

 No.555234

>>555217
The capacity for the 1% to rule over the 99% on racial lines purely because "they have ancestral claims to the land" is insane. Everyone is oppressed to different degrees under capitalism, merely being in general more oppressed is not grounds for this arrangement either. Otherwise might as well replace Native Americans with trans disabled black women, since their oppression was and is worse.

 No.555237

>>555217
>when there is no clear reason WHY indigenous people would conclude that they would need to deport everyone who isn't like them
At the moment there isn't, but I don't see how such a thing could ever be justified or produce a positive outcome. Even Gonzalo Anon agrees that such a thing should be undesirable, so I see no reason why we should allow something we all agree would be bad. Presumably we all agree that in a socialist society, racial discrimination should be illegal, meaning that if ASSRs are to have the power to deport people arbitrarily, a specific exemption would need to be made to these anti-discrimination laws (and probably in the constitution). I have heard no convincing argument as to why such an exemption should be allowed.
>then the hypothetical deportation would NOT be arbitrary
By "arbitrary" I am referring to the power to simply expel people without being legally bound to cite and defend any specific justification, as opposed to being constrained by the constitution or federal law. This is in comparison to most countries which may have constitutional clauses that allow certain rights to be violated, but these violations need to be defended and can be reversed by the judiciary.

 No.555239

>>555216
By "racial harmony" I simply mean friendly and mutually beneficial relations between races, free of discrimination and chauvinism.

 No.555252

File: 1634668937311.jpg (82.05 KB, 454x453, 1425090633737.jpg)

>>555201
>muh authoritarianism vs totalitarianism
>muh Stalin equally brutal to Hitler, just different

 No.555253

How have you uyghas been consumed by landback bullshit for 2 fucking weeks. I used to enjoy reading this thread as a digest of internet gossip but now it’s just a bunch of landback retards debating with people stupid enough to take them seriously. Landback does not and will not ever matter. Why even debate them?

 No.555254

>>555253
ITG has always had flavor of the week/month topics derailing the thread most of the time.

 No.555257

>>555254
I don’t remember literally any of them being this retarded or long lasting.

 No.555258

>>555253
tell the indigenous peoples of america to their faces it doesn’t matter

 No.555260

>>555209
Now I can't give you a strong argument as to WHY natives or blacks should want to want ro rehome settlers, because I don't think that they should, but I can also forrsee many scenarios where they may argue that it's necessary.
Considering that wuch an ASSR is made with the explicit intend of creating a bulwark against white supremacy, I think someone might be able to present a case that the presence of settlers within that ASSR present a danger or risk to the ASSRs ability to do so.

In such a case, the negative social utility of some people having to move does not outweigh the positive utility of the stability of the institution that is supposed to present an institutional counterbalance to combat white supremacy.

Now I'm very skeptical that this is actually goint to be a necessity, but if it is, no biggie and socialist states have done it before.

 No.555261

>>555258
I would if any lived anywhere within a 1000 mile radius of where I live. If mestizos count though I have done as you’ve asked already

 No.555262

>>555257
the arguments over trans people went on for a lot longer although there tended to be breaks

 No.555268

>>555237
>I have heard no convincing argument as to why such an exemption should be allowed.

Because equal treatment of unequal matters is inequality? Why would we treat things like they're the same when they're not?

 No.555280

>>555257
>>555254
>>555253
Make a designated lamb snacks general thread.

 No.555281

>>555260
>I think someone might be able to present a case that the presence of settlers within that ASSR present a danger or risk to the ASSRs ability to do so.
I think any such argument would inevitably have to fall back on gross generalizations and assumptions about people's behaviour on the basis of skin colour, attitudes which I would hope we can all agree are reactionary trash. If somebody finds living with other races unbearable then I don't care what faux-progressive phrases they dress it up as, it's reactionary thinking and needs to be treated as such.
>In such a case, the negative social utility of some people having to move does not outweigh the positive utility of the stability of the institution that is supposed to present an institutional counterbalance to combat white supremacy.
Again, assuming that the fallout from such an act doesn't cause increased instability and animosity on its own (such as invite retaliatory "rehomings" from other communties). But it's already been pointed out that simply allowing people to live in their own communities doesn't *really* eliminate white supremacy.
>no biggie and socialist states have done it before
Yeah and I fail to see how any good came of it, and clearly its a biggie for the people being forced to move. Moreover what actually happened was that certain populations were moved for specific reasons in extraordinary circumstances, such as immediately before, during, or after WW2. Iirc they were generally later allowed to return once the situation had stabilized. Union republics did not have the power to just deport other ethnic groups whenever they wanted, which is the power you are talking about granting.
>>555268
>Because equal treatment of unequal matters is inequality?
That doesn't justify any and all forms of unequal treatment in order to remedy the problem.

 No.555287

File: 1634670391918.png (169.21 KB, 448x448, dissapoint.png)

>>554416
This is a bridge too far. The man cannot possibly sell out any more than this, right? He can't keep turning tricks for media like this or his audience will get sick of it.

 No.555291

>>555033
>openly reactionary Sakist nonsense

>>555055
>. The abstraction of Native Americans as a nation is reactionary IMO.
Read the national question by Stalin you fucking Lib, christ you're retarded

>Sakai

>sakai
>sakai
>Sakai
>sakai
>sakai
That's all these red Agent Kochinskiites can say. Nothing else when it comes to any fucking mention of the indian and african question.
It's always so strange when exposing the foundational contradictions of American Empire there are always some skinny rats that appear from the the sewers agitated by the light of truth, who screech: "You're the fascist, BLACK FASCIST, INDIAN FASCIST! White Genocide! You want to deport whites! You want ethno-fascism! You are the real reactionary, SAKAI SAKAI SAKAI!"

What these filthy minions of empire are actually doing is defending the foundational myths of America and hiding these contradictions under the Chauvinist muccus they vomit from their rotten mouths. In the last analysis these cockroaches are classtraitors defending the spoils they reap from their imperialist masters.

 No.555298

>>555291
t. white turd worlder

 No.555304

>>555298
I am African you cumroach, and actualy believe in a revolution in the first word that's why I take the analysis of the USA serious because I want socialism actually to happen there. Unlike you and those other retarded patriots who just daydream about "muh CPUSA 2036" and ignoring actual reality and shut down any actual Marxist analysis of America.

 No.555310

>>555291
it says something about no one but you that you would take this discussion so personally and assume that we must be too.

 No.555324

>>555291
>everyone tells me I'm a fascist waaah
Get the hint, sakaist.

 No.555328

>>555304
>I am African
yeah, not very convincing whitey.

 No.555331

>>555252
yeah that part was cringe. i forgot that you guys get triggered by words and shut down. You can disagree that authority is bad and still learn from it, their position is no different than Zizeks and muh USSR bad isn't really the point. It is still worth analyzing mistakes so as to not repeat them. He also specifically said that Stalin and Hitler were not comparable.

 No.555337

>>555253
anti-landbackers insist on bringing up strawman arguments after being proven wrong to drive idpol splitting

 No.555338

>>555304
t. Sakaist fascist

 No.555347

>>554423
>Linus also pointed out that Hasan made LTT pay for the PC components instead of doing it himself, despite having more money than them.
oh dude I bet Linus is super pissed. I can't beleve hassan would scam him like this

 No.555348

>>555188
the only way out is through

 No.555351

>>555132
Can you just say "Marx was wrong" instead of pretending to be a communist.

 No.555357


>>554850
>Bernie

https://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/26/us/politics/as-mayor-bernie-sanders-was-more-pragmatic-than-socialist.html
https://www.thedailybeast.com/bernie-sanders-loves-this-dollar1-trillion-war-machine


>“There were protesters who were unhappy that General Electric was manufacturing Gatling guns at the plant, and so they would lock themselves to the gates and engage in civil disobedience. And so the mayor, Bernie, finally got cops to go in and arrest the protesters, the GE plant was one of the largest providers of jobs in the city. So it was economically important that the plant stay open and people who worked there went to work.”


>When it comes time to make speeches, Sanders has slammed defense corporations for political gain.


>“We know that there is massive fraud going on in the defense industry. Virtually every major defense contractor has either been convicted of fraud or reached a settlement with the government,” Sanders said in Iowa City last year at a town hall. “We need a strong military, it is a dangerous world. But I think we can make judicious cuts.”


>But when those defense corporations come to his own backyard, he quietly welcomes them in.

 No.555359

>>555351
Marx and the bulk of those who followed in his footsteps were far closer to me on this issue.

 No.555393

>>555337
who brought idpol to the table if not sakaists. Sakaism was born in the heart of darkness, the root of the blackest reaction, the most brainwashed country in the history of mankind.
No matter how you twist it, Lakota Zionism is a trash take.

 No.555401

>>555281
>I think any such argument would inevitably have to fall back on gross generalizations and assumptions about people's behaviour on the basis of skin colour

Not skin colour, but social conditioning through a white supremacist society that has instilled in settlers racist and supremacist sentiments. Settlers were sent to settle on native land explicitly to destroy native ability to organize as communities, and that is not a reality wr can just ignore. If on that background natives decide that settlers still pose the thread and function they were meant to pose and on that basis chose to rehome them, frankly I am confuse as to what is supposed to be the harm.

>Again, assuming that the fallout from such an act doesn't cause increased instability and animosity on its own (such as invite retaliatory "rehomings" from other communties).


We can't let white supremacist violence scare us. If that is what settlers chose to do, then the path is protracted people's war.

>But it's already been pointed out that simply allowing people to live in their own communities doesn't *really* eliminate white supremacy.


Yes. By me. I pointed it out. Do you recall what I said right after about institutions and what they could do?

>Yeah and I fail to see how any good came of it


It solved the National Question within the USSR and was generally recieved positively by people that had formerly been subject to ethnic suppression.

>clearly its a biggie for the people being forced to move.

I mean it was an inconvenience, sure. But that's what we're talking about here, some people being inconvenienced so that institutions that can guarantee the safety of natives and black people can be established. That's a lot of juice for not a lot of squeeze.

>That doesn't justify any and all forms of unequal treatment in order to remedy the problem


Yes it does. Marx said so. Unequal treatment of unequal cases is the only to real equal treatment.

 No.555409

File: 1634674762857.png (202.51 KB, 502x294, ClipboardImage.png)

Is there a name for that sensation when something so specific gets you so horny you get dizzy and start venting?

 No.555415

>>555409
lol, thought I was the only one. Who makes you feel like this?

 No.555422

>>555393
>everyone who disagrees with me is a sakaist

see what i mean

 No.555423

>>551460
Humanitarian aid. Good thing the increasinly disasterous effects of global warming, an increase in size and frequency of pandemics and more and more conflicts over depleting natural resources will make this one of the few industries to survive until the next dark age!
FUN!
https://www.marketplace.org/2014/08/11/humanitarian-crises-grow-so-does-aid-industry/

 No.555424

Intro to Theory: Is theory bullshit?

 No.555431

>>555393
Noone ITT is a Sakaiist though. I'm not a Sakaiist. I disagree with Sakai on the viability of 1st world revolution

 No.555439

>>555415
👉👈 girls doming

 No.555454

epic numbers are coming

 No.555472

>>555401
>Not skin colour, but social conditioning through a white supremacist society that has instilled in settlers
Attitudes which anybody can see are not universal among white people, and hence it would not be justifiable to generalize and kick them all out. This isn't even taking into account how a socialist revolution both presupposes and would produce a major decline in settler ideology.
>We can't let white supremacist violence scare us.
What violence? You yourself said that White people would get a home in the former 13 colonies, and that they should have the ability to rehome others. So do you not also recognize the possibility thay reciprocal rehomings could just result in segregation? Or we could guarantee universal protection from racial discrimination and actively repress any such notions.
>Do you recall what I said right after about institutions and what they could do?
You talk as if racialized people are incapable of building institutional power if they have to share these institutions with white people. However having racialized homelands does nothing to aid in this endeavor, and this is shown by the fact that many racialized groups hold and held power in their own communities, which were unable to translate into power at the national level. Even if it grants them power in their own communities, this is useless without corresponding power at the national level, something which, because they are a minority, can only ultimately be achieved with the support of the white population and the dismantling of racist ideology. In other words, the success of your entire scheme STILL hinges on the destruction of racist ideology, which tbh makes the entire thing superfluous.
>It solved the National Question within the USSR
No, the creation of union and autonomous republics solved that problem. The deportations accomplished nothing apart from instilling anti-Soviet sentiments in the targeted populations. Once again, I have never seen anything to suggest that either union or autonomous republics had the power to deport different ethnicities whenever they wanted for whatever reason they saw fit. So don't try to draw an equivalence between what you are proposing and what the Soviets did.
>But that's what we're talking about here, some people being inconvenienced so that institutions that can guarantee the safety of natives and black people can be established.
The only way you would think that such a measure would be necessary to guarantee the safety of minorities is if you literally think that they are incapable of living alongside whites, or that whites constitute a danger merely by existing. Otherwise the correct response to any remaining racist violence would be to go after the individual perpetrators, put them on trial, and if convicted then punish them, perhaps with deportation of exile. An autonomous republic does not need the power of arbitrary deportation to do this.
>I mean it was an inconvenience, sure.
Uprooting your entire fucking life is much more than an inconvenience holy shit. You really must be 15 if I actually have to explain to you why being forced to move your entire family and community against your will and on the basis of your ethnicity is much more than an "inconvenience" and will anger many, many people.
>Yes it does. Marx said so. Unequal treatment of unequal cases is the only to real equal treatment.
Again, for somebody who uses a Maoist flag you have a really poor understanding of his theory. The contradictions between workers and capitalists are antagonistic, they can only be resolved by the destruction of one by the other. The contradiction between different races of workers are non-antagonistic, meaning they can and must be resolved to the mutual benefit of all involved. Hence the two are qualitatively different, and any attempt to resolve a non-antagonistic contradiction in a way which intensifies rather than lessens the antagonism is by definition counterproductive. Now call me crazy, but I'm thoroughly convinced that allowing any racial group a free hand to engage in discrimination and deportation of another racial group is far more likely to intensify the contradiction rather than resolve it. If you agree that such a thing is undesirable, if you agree that it's unlikely to happen, then give me a reason why we should go out of our way to make it legal by having an exemption in anti-discrimination and racial equality laws.

 No.555478

>>555328
>yeah, not very convincing whitey.
White anarcho-bitch literally coping since can't believe Africans have an opinion of their own


>>555310
>it says something about no one but you that you would take this discussion so personally and assume that we must be too.
<African takes conversation that involves his own dignity personal
Luckily you white rational non-empathic logic bitch are here unconcerned by the suffering of those that America oppresses to this day.

>>555324
>Get the hint, sakaist.
Literal dialogue loop, ask the pentagon for some new talking points.

Board filled with class traitors defending their imperial overlords for nothing.

 No.555479

>>555454
Action is coming

 No.555553

>>555472
>Attitudes which anybody can see are not universal among white people

They wouldn't have to be, they'd just have to be generally wide-spread amongst them, and they are.

>This isn't even taking into account how a socialist revolution both presupposes and would produce a major decline in settler ideology.


Nop. Settler proles can easily rebel against their bourg overlords without a single decline in their commitment to white supremacy.

>What violence?


The violence of reciprocal deportations. The difference in contexts there are pretty obvious.

>this is shown by the fact that many racialized groups hold and held power in their own communities, which were unable to translate into power at the national level.


But it doesn't have to. My argument isn't that this fixes white-supremacy in society in general or will get black or native people into national leadership roles, because there is no way to ensure this unless you reserve such positions for them in the constitution (which I would also support), the point here is to make places where black and natives people can go to escape discrimination if it still exists in the general national structure, and give them institutions which they can utilize against the state if that state should infringe upon them as a community.

>Even if it grants them power in their own communities, this is useless without corresponding power at the national level


What? No not useless. These are organized institutions by which Natives and black people can go and get organized if society in general does not give up on discrimination against them. Of course we also have to struggle to lake society in general less racist, that's granted, no one denies that.
But there needs to be institutional guarantees for black and native people if that fails, otherwise there is literally nothing to guarantee their security and no means by which they can organize.

>The deportations accomplished nothing apart from instilling anti-Soviet sentiments in the targeted populations.


Proofs? Aren't the poles a lot more angry at the USSR than the Germans? Do Kazakhs hate the USSR more than Ukrainians?

>Once again, I have never seen anything to suggest that either union or autonomous republics had the power to deport different ethnicities whenever they wanted for whatever reason they saw fit. So don't try to draw an equivalence between what you are proposing and what the Soviets did.


But rehomings happened, so whether the ASSR took that decision or asked the USSR to do it and it then ordered those rehomings on behalf of the ASSR is a little immaterial. It was a solution to the national question in Eastern Europe and a way to end some of the tensions born from settler colonialism.

>The only way you would think that such a measure would be necessary to guarantee the safety of minorities is if you literally think that they are incapable of living alongside whites, or that whites constitute a danger merely by existing


No it follows from the already established fact that there's no guarantee that white supremacy can be dismantled before fFALC, as before then Settlers would have an incentive to uphold the already established mechanisms of White Supremacy to gain an edge towards the limited amount of higher-end jobs and government positions.
As such, Black and Native people cannot ever be safe within white society before it is thoroughly decolonized and white supremacy is dismantled in totality. Until then, they need somewhere to be safe, because they won't necesarrily be within white society.

>Uprooting your entire fucking life is much more than an inconvenience holy shit.


I've done it a few times in my life, voluntarily even. Sure it's a hassle, but it was in no way comparable to genocide or what other ethnicities have gone through when being deported. As such the comparison falls flat.

Now consider on top of that also being compensated with free new homes and jobs-guarantees, and the only real consequence for those rehomed is slight inconvenience.

>The contradiction between different races of workers are non-antagonistic


No, the antagonism between colonizers and colonized ARE antagonistic. Settlers MUST be liquidated as a class and white supremacy dismantled before the antagonism is solved. That means that settler-power and white supremacy must be taken away from settlers, there is no mutual benefit on that vector - it's a zero-sum game where settlers benefit from the subjugation of native and black communities. It's one of wealth transfer and power-dynamics and as such it is not just the tension between two ethnicities, it's a question of one ethnicity that dominates and extracts wealth and privilege from another.

 No.555555

get

 No.555559

>>555555
i am going to fucking GET you

 No.555560


 No.555563

>>555555
>no juche
what a letdown

 No.555566

>>555439
Hot. I like to see guys being domed by women.
There's a guy I like that likes to be dommed by his gf. I think if I saw that live, I might simultaneously cum and faint, possibly die.

 No.555569

>>555555
ACTION! ACTION! ACTION! ACTION!

 No.555578

>>555555
fuckin gonzaloids

 No.555591

File: 1634681735691.png (347.67 KB, 384x480, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.555592

>>555555

Jesus what a fucking waste

 No.555595

>>555555
FARO QUE ALUMBRA LA HUMANIDAD

Fucking MLMpM KEK

 No.555597

File: 1634682027343.png (5.59 MB, 1399x2175, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.555606

File: 1634682357857.png (1.46 MB, 640x420, get out.png)

>>555555
get OUT

 No.555607

>>555555
I was patiently waiting for this

 No.555608

>>555439
>>555566
>>555591
>>555597
I especially like girls who dome nazis.

 No.555615

Having read up a bit on how the Texans football program (NFL) works, it seems like a pretty cut and dry case of affirmative action not working, but not in a direction that you would expect. They overhauled their system to mostly include christian types who aren't exactly actually good at making calls or getting good trades in the NFL and that have left them from being a decently above average team with playoff hopes to being the bottom wrung of a shitty division.

 No.555627

>>555608
>tfw no soviet sniper mommy gf
Feels sad man

 No.555661

>>554517
Here's the video Maupin is talking about around 1:53:00.

 No.555709

File: 1634689212674-0.png (2.35 MB, 1200x1614, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1634689212674-1.png (317.72 KB, 480x447, ClipboardImage.png)

File: 1634689212674-2.png (969.2 KB, 529x799, ClipboardImage.png)

>>555608
Fuck it, this is a guerrilla girls thread now.

 No.555748

>>555661
British Pathé has a lot of gems if you search for "communists".

https://www.youtube.com/c/britishpathe/search?query=communists

 No.555753

>>555615
lol

This is why it's great to be a Cowboy

 No.555763

File: 1634692487000.png (51.24 KB, 1022x300, ClipboardImage.png)

The based drama alert

 No.555767

>>555763
tfw keemstar is a succesful, energetic and charismatic streamer, and now a comrade.

With just ONE tweet dude played Haz game and fucking owned it.

 No.555769

File: 1634692987972.png (655.4 KB, 750x1334, ClipboardImage.png)


 No.555770

>>555769
>denouncing opportunists
wtf he really is based

 No.555771

>>555763
>>555767
>Simping for a dumbass rightoid because he said ONE good thing
Fucking hell lads

 No.555798

>>553335
Maupin openly supports ethnostates run by Black Americans

 No.555830

File: 1634695981039.jpg (49.85 KB, 680x698, 144.jpg)

>>555553
>It's one of wealth transfer and power-dynamics and as such it is not just the tension between two ethnicities, it's a question of one ethnicity that dominates and extracts wealth and privilege from another.
Your entire concept of ethnic autonomy presupposes an arrangement wherein the group in question is made the majority, and locally controls its economy and political apparatus. Hence it is a situation in which the settler-colonized relationship (which in reality is just a worker-capitalist relationship filtered through your race-essentialist brainworms) has already been liquidated. Thus white people living in these areas are by definition no longer colonizers (not that most of them were to begin with), and there could then be no justification for stripping them of their right to be protected from discrimination. Therefore the antagonistic colonizer-colonized contradiction would already be sublated into a non-antagonistic racial contradiction, one which can and must be overcome through mutually beneficial relations, solidarity, and unity. Any action which is counterproductive to this end (such as say, legalizing segregation), would therefore be counterrevolutionary. So your own proposal actually renders your position on legalizing discrimination unjustifiable.

Alternatively, the contradiction could be addressed by doing the exact opposite of what you suggest. By taking measures to ensure that different racial groups are as closely mixed as possible, thereby abolishing any geographic distinction between the communities and making the exploitation of one ethnic community by another virtually impossible without de jure racial oppression.

 No.555848

>>555771
noooooooo you have to agree with me on everything!!!!!!

 No.555855

File: 1634698275307.jpg (588.8 KB, 1966x3251, 7vlzotfv2p471.jpg)

This is probably slowpoke.jpg but apparently Christman got divorced some months back
https://wcca.wicourts.gov/caseDetail.html?caseNo=2020FA000895&countyNo=67&index=0

 No.555857

>>555855
Are we supposed to mock him or something? Kicking someone when they're down is petty scum fuck behaviour, even if I don't agree with Christman 100%.

 No.555858

File: 1634698664926.png (767.41 KB, 598x781, g.png)

EPIC!!! GOMMIES BTFO BY "MEME"!!1

 No.555859

>>555857
I'm concerned that you jumped to that conclusion

 No.555860

>>555855
Yeah pretty slowpoke. He he lives in LA now too.

 No.555871

>>555661
I like how he trolls the committee by stating his eye colour and hair colour.

 No.555891

>>555855
Lesson to the incels here, if the fat balding drunkard chapoid got pussy and then divorced for better pussy , so you can kings.

 No.555895

>>555858
He's right, and this problem should be taken seriously.

 No.555897

File: 1634701323690.jpg (316.62 KB, 1536x2048, 7fqofyhisf971.jpg)


 No.555899


 No.555901

>>555555
GETzalo.

APLICAR EL MAOISMO

 No.555911

>>555891
He has an actual personality and charisma, that is the hardest part

 No.555915

>>555911
>By May 2017, the show generated more than $60,000 a month from subscribers, and is as of February 2020 the highest-grossing user on Patreon, earning nearly $160,000 per month.
money and fame can get everyone laid, no matter their appearance.

 No.555918

>>555915
He had a wife before he started the show

 No.555928

>>555918
>then divorced for better pussy ,
he's got personality, and he's not chad but he's not horrible looking either. regardless, the money and fame always helps


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