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/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

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 No.580532[View All]

Why are Americans so ignorant about the history of communism in their own country?

Watching all these history lectures about the CPUSA, IWW, etc. is bewildering. Why the fuck was I not taught about any of this in high school? Why was the “threat” of communism portrayed as something irrational and the Red Scares came out of nowhere when in fact communists were numerous in America and were extremely dedicated? Or the fact that the communists were the only ones fighting for Black people in the 1920s and 30s when most white Americans didn’t even see Black people as human?

I feel seriously cheated.
297 posts and 49 image replies omitted. Click reply to view.

 No.623939

>>622704
>I'm sorry, but you just can't market an anti-abortion or anti-gay/anti-trans socialism in 21st century America
He isn't. He's saying that socialists need to be willing to work with workers and oppressed people who have backwards views on social issues like abortion and queer rights. Otherwise you risk falling into the trap of supporting Israel because it's the "queer capital of the Middle East and Hamas are homophobic" or some other such radlib nonsense.

 No.623941

>>623939
He should just say *that* then and save himself the trouble.

 No.623943

>>623939
I might vehemently disagree with Israel and imperialism supporters but…

 No.623945

Like, that's really his main issue. You can never tell if he's being sincere or if he's playing a game. He comes across as a sleazy huckster and car salesman who hangs around LaRouchites (ultra-glow) and works for Russian state media. People simply don't trust the guy.

 No.623946

>>623941
He did. He literally said that he himself supports legal abortion and gay marriage, but that socialists need to be willing to work with people who don't. It isn't his fault Twitter is full of illiterate liberal retards.

 No.623953

>>623946
>He literally said that he himself supports legal abortion and gay marriage
Well I don't believe him.

 No.623981

>>623953
Well anybody can be called a fascist if you just accuse them of holding those beliefs in secret. Certainly what can be said is that Caleb has never taken action to oppose abortion or gay marriage, so it's really irrelevant whether he agrees with them or not. What is true however is that disagreement on these issues can't be a deal breaker for collaboration.

 No.623987

File: 1638277012357.jpg (308.86 KB, 1200x900, lenin on unity.jpg)

>>622704
>The opposite. Maupin wants socialism to be much more narrowly focused on large-scale infrastructure and state management of the economy, whereas the people he's beefing with understand leftism to be more holistic in terms of social issues being handled alongside economic ones (there is no dichotomy between the two despite what Maupinoids want you to think).
No such thing as leftism. Leftism is retarded.
Communism is based.
The focus should absolutely be on infrastructure projects as they benefit everyone. Infrastructure projects by their nature benefit everyone.
A new motorway/high speed train/high speed internet/hospitals/education reform with equal access etc is about the most egalitarian thing you can do
Whilst members of the "left" (like green and environmentalist retards) think infrastructure projects should be curtailed for "muh environment" faggotry
Green politicians in Germany for instance are responsible for Germany outputting more coal useage and relying on Russian gas for energy because they forced the closure of nuclear power plants (the actual cleanest energy)
>I personally think Maupin's views are kind of outdated, in the sense that he's pushing a political program that's essentially a hangover from the CPUSA in its "good days" rather than taking modern cultural attitudes into account. I'm sorry, but you just can't market an anti-abortion or anti-gay/anti-trans socialism in 21st century America.
anti-abortion/anti-gay or anti trans fags vs pro abortion/pro gay/pro trans fags isn't socialist
You can have the most advanced socialist society (which DPRK is given Chinas/Cubas and Vietnams reforms) which DPRK is explicitly anti LGBT
LGBT has nothing to do with socialism. you can have LGBT rights in a socialist society (like DDR) and you can have zero LGBT rights like DPRK
It's just a cultural divisive issue thrown out by billionaires to make you feel justified for voting the international crime syndicate and war criminals you call the Democratic Party
> he's beefing with understand leftism to be more holistic in terms of social issues
The Left isn't purely a drug infested, nihilistic hippy hug fest and the quicker we can get back to class warfare, class reductionism and class solidarity is when communism will take root in America and not whether you smoke dope, suck cock, want to chop your cock off or hug trees

 No.623990

>>623987
>Green politicians in Germany for instance are responsible for Germany outputting more coal useage and relying on Russian gas for energy because they forced the closure of nuclear power plants (the actual cleanest energy)
Actually it was Merkel, who was center right and possessed a DDR phd in physics, mainly because Fukushima spooked her.

 No.624018

>>622748
good writeup there

>>623188
Isn't the economic base decisive though, in the dialectic with superstructure? People don't get ideas dropped magically into their heads just because, if one takes the materialist perspective. The culture of a mobile society of hunter gatherers would, to not very much surprise, likely have a lot of differences from that of a static, mostly sedentary society of subsitence agriculture. Communism itself's first ideas did arise due to the development of modern industry, the construction of packed cities, and the concomitant agglomeration of the new proletariat into said industrial cities.

 No.624036

File: 1638281384892.png (352.97 KB, 523x754, 53495839405809345.png)

>>623987
>It's just a cultural divisive issue thrown out by billionaires
I don't think LGBT people by and large agree with this. This whole notion that these social issues are "distractions" is condescending and if the Communist Party in Kerala can do this and be a political force there, then communists can do it anywhere. That's the great thing about being a communist: you can openly have convictions and you don't have to grovel to public prejudice and bourgeois propriety. You don't have to be an "American" or "Englishman" either, you can just be a man.

 No.624042

>>623987
>the left has no position on social issues, we should focus on economics
<but also
>The Left isn't purely a drug infested, nihilistic hippy hug fest and the quicker we can get back to class warfare, class reductionism and class solidarity is when communism will take root in America and not whether you smoke dope, suck cock, want to chop your cock off or hug trees

really makes you think

You clearly have a (conservative) social position, so stop lying about it

 No.624047

>>624042
>>the left has no position on social issues, we should focus on economics
I didn't say that.
The "left" has plenty of positions on social issues.
It's literally all they talk & care about.
They are absolutely uninterested in economics and prefer aesthetics and any attempt at conversation about economics around these people results in "class reductionism".
You know, the only thing that unites people as opposed to their Post-Modern (antiMarxist) deconstructionalist analysis where everyone gets silo'd into their own box to live the greatest experience they can as a black chicano lesbian or whatever (under a neoliberal economy of course)
>You clearly have a (conservative) social position, so stop lying about it
I clearly do and don't feel the need to lie about it. Normal working people don't approach politics from a ironic, detached, middle class academic venture but from their real concrete material interests. And when they begin to turn toward communism no doubt we'll have to make common cause with racists (mostly the ignorant folk not active racists), anti abortionists as well as the cocksuckers and crossdressers because surprisingly socialism will need to be built by the broad masses of society and not a small virtue signalling clique who see in socialism a Christian purity they can admonish themselves for their next lives

 No.624053

File: 1638283181798-1.png (66.11 KB, 1269x441, CVyzjHUVAAEVjn3.png)

>>624042
This is what conservatives are like. They don't say "I hate you," it's always "why are you making me hate you?" But this reflects their general lack of principles, inner emptiness, spiritual deadness and untruthfulness of the age, to paraphrase Engels, and it's right to rebel against it. "We are waging a war to the death against all these things."

>>624047
>mostly the ignorant folk
lol

>virtue signalling clique

"I hate virtue signaling" = "I wish people who believe in things would shut the fuck up about it already."

People who broadcast their ideas are more likely to spread them than those who keep their ideas to themselves. Building a community relies on all kinds of repetitive signaling of shared beliefs. The dominant ideology also never shies from repeating itself in the flimsiest of cliches, and it uses our shyness about repeating ourselves as a weapon against us.

It's said that a lie repeated often enough becomes true, but it's even more true that a true thing not repeated enough fails to grip the masses and attain any meaningful purchase on reality.

 No.624072

>>624053
>>mostly the ignorant folk
>lol
So you think the majority of the working class that might say some problematic things about different peoples is an active racism rather than stemming from ignorance?
Holy fuck if that's true then how did the Soviets build a socialist society when pogroms against jews happened routinely prior to Soviet power (and even during the civil war)?
>"I hate virtue signaling" = "I wish people who believe in things would shut the fuck up about it already."
If they actively believed in them might be one thing but it's so patently obvious that they don't and they only flash those credentials like multi national corporations do
>but it's even more true that a true thing not repeated enough fails to grip the masses and attain any meaningful purchase on reality.
The only unifying thing that can ever possibly grip the masses is their class position and their class interest.
Otherwise you end up like this guy >>622700 and yourself writing off half the population because of their backward beliefs in some obscure sexual politics when most working people are too tired to have sex

 No.624074

Pay no heed to the stupid clickbait title.

 No.624077

File: 1638284829376.mp4 (6.72 MB, 640x360, AvxmmNGgBv_RQpYC.mp4)

>>623981
>Well anybody can be called a fascist if you just accuse them of holding those beliefs in secret. Certainly what can be said is that Caleb has never taken action to oppose abortion or gay marriage, so it's really irrelevant whether he agrees with them or not.
I'm calling him deceitful. It's up to you if you want to follow a person like that or not.

>>624072
>Holy fuck if that's true then how did the Soviets build a socialist society when pogroms against jews happened routinely prior to Soviet power (and even during the civil war)?
By waging ideological struggle against anti-Semitism. They didn't make common cause with ignorance.

>>624072
>If they actively believed in them might be one thing but it's so patently obvious that they don't
I do believe in those things and I don't get any "virtue" out of it here because I'm anonymous. I'm not building any brand.

 No.624079

>>624077
>I'm calling him deceitful.
Based on what? What has he actually done to make you think he opposes abortion and gay marriage?

 No.624088

File: 1638285409282-0.png (520.21 KB, 921x889, racist trans.png)

File: 1638285409282-1.jpeg (1.32 MB, 1924x1084, racist trans 2.jpeg)

>>624077
>I do believe in those things and I don't get any "virtue" out of it here because I'm anonymous. I'm not building any brand.
Lol cancel culture is such a massive phenomena because people hide their beliefs, virtue signal to everyone only to get outed later as a racist or whatever

 No.624090

File: 1638285573279.mp4 (12.34 MB, 1280x540, luna_change.mp4)

>>624088
Now you're not only essentializing people, but trying (pathetically, I might add) to engage in the same "cancel culture" behavior that you decry.

 No.624091

>>582699
>California
I feel like that state, much like Texas, is a whole different country in itself tbh.
That wouldn’t surprise me.

 No.624100

>>624090
>Now you're not only essentializing people, but trying (pathetically, I might add) to engage in the same "cancel culture" behavior that you decry.
OK I don't care that much about this conversation.
"Virtue signalling" doesn't exist
Mmmmmkay
Cancel culture isn't such a popular phenomena precisely because of the phenomena of virtue signalling

You can't converse with someone who denies something exists
>to engage in the same "cancel culture" behavior that you decry
You just said cancel culture doesn't exist and isn't a phenomena. How can I engage in it?

 No.624103

>>624090
Luna is literally Misaki from Welcome to the NHK (politics edition) what the actual fuck.

 No.624528

>>623058
How is collaborating with the bourgeois state any different than working with the cops or FBI?

 No.624531

>>623060
They did the patriotism bullshit and it failed.

 No.624589

>>624531
Yeah because the US managed to integrate a huge portion of its working class into bourgeois hegemony via imperialism and concessions. That's why the CPUSA failed, not because they sought to construct a socialist-compatible concept of patriotism.

 No.624603

>>624589
>Yeah because the US managed to integrate a huge portion of its working class into bourgeois hegemony via imperialism and concessions.
And this is what you are advocating to happen again, not any meaningful implementation of socialism

 No.624612

>>624603
>And this is what you are advocating to happen again
What makes you say that? Anti-imperialism is a core tenet of at least some of the patriotic socialist currents, just as it was with the CPUSA.

 No.624709

>>624612
CPUSA sold out every group of people they claimed to fight for.

 No.624822

>>624709
In what way?

 No.624832

>>624822
>sold out workers
>sold out blacks
>sold out Puerto Ricans
>sold out Japanese Americans

Whitey can’t be trusted to do socialism.

 No.624874

>>624832
>'ate workers
>'ate blacks
>'ate Puerto Ricans
>'ate Japanese Americans
>love settlerism
>love imperialism
>simple as
t. The CPUSA apparently

 No.624944

>>624874
Isn't that what J. Sakai says?

 No.624967

>Why are Americans so ignorant about the history of communism in their own country?
Political apathy + ~50-100 years of anti-communist propaganda + the systematic destruction of communist, socialist and labor movements by the government.
Really not that difficult to guess, OP.

 No.625147

>>603730
The thumbnail is priceless.

 No.625189

>>618711
Cap. Having a kid should make you more communist, not less.

 No.625335

>>623060
>>624531
>Because historical communists today would be called patriotic chauvinists
Historical communists
<Can a Communist, who is an internationalist, at the same time be a patriot? We hold that he not only can be but also must be. The specific content of patriotism is determined by historical conditions. There is the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler, and there is our patriotism. Communists must resolutely oppose the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler. The Communists of Japan and Germany are defeatists with regard to the wars being waged by their countries. To bring about the defeat of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler by every possible means is in the interests of the Japanese and the German people, and the more complete the defeat the better…. For the wars launched by the Japanese aggressors and Hitler are harming the people at home as well as the people of the world. China's case, however, is different, because she is the victim of aggression. Chinese Communists must therefore combine patriotism with internationalism. We are at once internationalists and patriots, and our slogan is, "Fight to defend the motherland against the aggressors." For us defeatism is a crime and to strive for victory in the War of Resistance is an inescapable duty. For only by fighting in defense of the motherland can we defeat the aggressors and achieve national liberation. And only by achieving national liberation will it be possible for the proletariat and other working people to achieve their own emancipation. The victory of China and the defeat of the invading imperialists will help the people of other countries. Thus in wars of national liberation patriotism is applied internationalism.
Mao, https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch18.htm

<Earlier, the bourgeoisie, as the heads of nations, were for the rights and independence of nations and put that "above all." Now there is no trace left of this "national principle." Now the bourgeoisie sell the rights and independence of their nations for dollars. The banner of national independence and national sovereignty has been thrown overboard. Without doubt, you, the representatives of the communist and democratic parties must raise this banner and carry it forward if you want to be patriots of your countries, if you want to be the leading powers of the nations. There is nobody else to raise it. (Stormy applause.)

Stalin, https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1952/10/14.htm

< In its struggle for world domination predatory U.S. imperialism makes wide use of the ideology of bourgeois cosmopolitanism as a weapon to enslave the peoples who are defending their national independence and sovereignty. On the way to world domination U.S. imperialism encounters the persistent and ever growing resistance of all who treasure national independence and freedom of their homeland. The ideology of cosmopolitanism declares the conception of national sovereignty to be obsolete, preaches complete indifference to the fate of one’s own homeland, national nihilism and declares the very concept of nation and State independence to be a fiction. Cosmopolitanism denies the patriotism of the masses of the people, patriotism which is a bar to the realisation of the predatory plans of the imperialists. It plays into the hands of anti-popular, anti-patriotic forces of the bourgeoisie which demand capitulation before U.S. imperialism.

<The patriotism of the bourgeoisie, said Marx, has degenerated into shear hypocrisy since its financial, trade and industrial activities have acquired a cosmopolitan character.
<Marx counterposed proletarian internationalism to bourgeois cosmopolitanism and pointed out that the victory of the proletariat over the bourgeoisie was a prerequisite for the elimination of national conflicts and the liberation of the oppressed nations.

<Events in the subsequent hundred years fully confirmed this. Works by V. I. Lenin and J. V. Stalin on the national question, which are the programme of the struggle of the peoples for their national freedom and independence, constitute a formidable weapon in the struggle against cosmopolitanism. Present-day cosmopolitanism is only an auxiliary weapon of the most reactionary and predatory capitalism—U.S. capitalism. It is designed simply to serve the plans for the Americanisation of the entire world.


<To suppress the really patriotic forces in every country, morally to disarm the peoples and exterminate their love for their national traditions, cosmopolitanism falsely declares the so-called American culture and the “American way of life”—so widely, advertised by the imperialists and their “learned” servants—to be the standard of culture for all mankind, eliminating the great achievements of the French, Italian and other nations in literature, science and art; it implants American morals and the manners of gangsterism, misanthropy, race discrimination, moral corruption and spiritual degeneration.


<In France, Great Britain, Italy, Western Germany and in all other countries where power belongs to the exploiters and oppressors—who everywhere act hand in hand with Wall Street magnates against the peace camp the official propaganda lauds the “American way of life” and the “American age”. Teachers serving capitalism urge that visits to the U.S. for educational purposes should constitute a compulsory feature of every kind of higher education. Some people in France insist that every engineer should take a “political probation course” in the U.S.

<The dissemination of the pseudo-scientific Mendelian and Morgan “theories” in biology, the idealistic and metaphysical conceptions in physics, psychology and teaching and, in general, the propaganda of objectivism in science, formalism and abstraction in art, the spreading of the idealistic, decadent “theory” that literature and art must be divided from the people and from reality—all this goes hand in hand with the intensification of brutal police repressions against honest and patriotic-minded cultural workers, with the systematic deterioration of their living standards and invariable reductions in budget allocations for cultural needs. All this is done on the U.S. model and on its insistence. All this is tainted with cosmopolitanism. The real content of cosmopolitanism in the realm of culture is reaction and decadence of a neo-fascist character; it is the penetration into other countries of the well known barbaric culture which characterises imperialist America. As with the struggle for peace, for independence and against the colonising policy, the struggle for culture demands that cosmopolitan tendencies to be resolutely repulsed.
Georges Cogniot, Cosmopolitanism—Weapon of Predatory U.S. Imperialism https://revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/Cosmopolitanism.htm

 No.625458

>>620994
>and this was the primary cause of Vatican II.
Based if true.

 No.625474

>>620994
wtf is "Vatican II"?

 No.625487


 No.625571

>>618711
>Chambers claimed that the Communist Party wanted his wife to abort their first child
Anyone have solid proof the CPUSA did this shit aside from the words of paid snitches?

 No.625612

>>625335
There’s a huge difference between the indigenous people of a country being patriotic, vs settlers being patriotic to their colonial settler project.

 No.625673

>>624944
Sakai is a fucking ideologue who deliberately butchered his sources to make his argument.

 No.625831

File: 1638391247682.jpg (95.1 KB, 625x500, FE0d-wjXwAQ8NuI.jpg)

>>625612
>There’s a huge difference between the indigenous people of a country being patriotic, vs settlers being patriotic to their colonial settler project.

 No.625918

>>625831
Spoken like a true settler.

 No.626097

Protip: sophomore sociology courses in American universities routinely assign J. Sakai as required reading.

 No.626100

>>626097
I don’t believe this

 No.626267

>>626097
I also don't believe this. We'd never hear the end of it from College Republicans if that were the case.

 No.626294

>>625918
are Mexicans settlers?

 No.626640

>>625918
I'm native to my country so actually no…
Come to think of it my ancestors may have "settled" on top of the normans…but they settled on top of the romans….but they settled on top of the celts ad infinitum of Sakai retardation

https://thecharnelhouse.org/2017/05/15/dont-bother-reading-settlers-by-j-sakai/


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