Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:03:05 No. 580538
That's a good question. It's quite the mystery.
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:06:01 No. 580547
>>580532 >the Red Scares You literally answered your own question. Cold War politics and the aftermath of McCarthyism is exactly why communist (and labour) history is obscured in the US.
I've seen American history high school textbooks and they always go from the Gilded Age to the First World War without ANY mention of labour struggles. There's a logical reason for that.
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:07:25 No. 580549
decades of propaganda
junko !!9cfznBf./Q 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:11:47 No. 580563
anon i learned a lot of this stuff from literally /leftypol/ and my own research, it's not exactly like they shove it in your face
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:14:40 No. 580569
>>580532 >borger kang Any good videos about the CPUSA that are NOT made by Maupin?
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:17:48 No. 580573
>>580532 >Why are Americans so ignorant really makes you think
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:22:13 No. 580579
>>580564 >The Red Scare is presented as bad because it "went too far" by sweeping up Hollywood libs who just sympathized with the communists. LOL, yep. People think the Second Red Scare was just Hollywood or whatever. That and the Hiss-Chambers (rat) case.
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:25:14 No. 580586
The purpose of school is to indoctrinate you into capitalist mode of production, not to impart information, or create well rounded citizens or some shit.
So long as 95% of burgers getting shat out of highschool stick to the program and can recite the ruling ideology of "Marx killed 100s gorillion people", the system is working as intended. Teachers who want to keep their jobs give the topic a wide birth.
Freedom is slavery. You don't live in the land of the free, but in the land of slaves who believe they are free. All while watching the rich exercising bourgeoisie freedoms to control their lives.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eU-AkeOyiOQ Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:27:00 No. 580587
>>580579 More importantly they either don’t think about the Communists who suffered from it or think that they all deserved it.
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:29:26 No. 580589
>>580587 "Foster and the rest of the CPUSA leadership were puppets of Stalin" is a common trope used to justify the repression they faced.
Anonymous 2021-11-03 (Wed) 22:39:23 No. 580602
>>580587 >>580589 Didn’t they have to take a loyalty oath to the Soviet Union?
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 00:59:34 No. 580830
>>580532 American history is always whitewashed.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 01:01:22 No. 580835
But Anon, don't you know that wanting to continue the progressive legacy of your own country makes you a racist Nazi?
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 01:25:49 No. 580882
>>580830 Idk how it was before 2000 but my public school history education definitely slanted left or at least lib. I know people who had history teachers that presented communism as a good thing and this was in the south
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 01:44:29 No. 580935
>>580835 It's only three people in the CPUSA/YCL who are attacking Caleb Maupin. They apparently blackmailed Joe Sims.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 03:19:39 No. 581096
>>580532 Are you sure? We briefly talked about American communism at my high school , namely that CPUSA was tremendously popular during the 1930s and that’s what got a lot of people in trouble decades later.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 03:50:50 No. 581113
>>580835 Social-imperialist hands typed this post
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 03:54:35 No. 581115
>>580532 >>580532 Shorten it to "why are americans so ignorant?".
Neoliberal propaganda and institutions basically limit anything outside the scope of liberal capitalist "democracies". Can't escape it and it results in some very dumb educational standards.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 04:26:48 No. 581134
>>580935 Good to hear, hope the party throws them out.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 04:47:09 No. 581139
What's there to learn? It's a history of failure and impotence
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 04:48:42 No. 581140
>>581139 It's highly important.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 04:50:47 No. 581142
>>581140 There's no positive accomplishments, what little concessions they did get doomed them in even the short term. What good does it do to teach kids about losers and failures?
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:10:40 No. 581175
>>581142 >what little concessions they did get doomed them in even the short term. Such as?
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:12:28 No. 581178
>>581175 All of the new deal legislation
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:12:45 No. 581179
>>580532 The answer is obvious.
If you're an oppresor and the whole political and economic model depends of making people think that the current state of things is permanent and natural you wouldn't want people to think about alternatives
Richard Wolff has been saying this for years the fact that Americans are ignorant is not an accident, but conscious design.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:27:14 No. 581186
>>581178 How did it hurt them? McCarthyism would have happened regardless of how visible the CPUSA had been.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:30:09 No. 581188
>>581142 You fucking kidding me? How are they losers and failures? They literally have been on the forefront of every progressive movement there ever was.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:33:43 No. 581190
>>581188 >How are they losers and failures? They didn't take power
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:34:52 No. 581191
>>581186 Compromise with the other side of capital defanged them and led to their full liquidation under Earl Browder, which they still haven't recovered from
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 05:55:50 No. 581196
>>581191 >>581190 This. Maupin severely whitewashes the history of the CPUSA to make it seem as if 100% of the decisions they made were rational and that they were the good guy martyrs, rather than the sellouts they always were.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 08:10:45 No. 581246
>>581224 >his native Prussia oh boy, glad Marx wasn't around to hear that
why are they talking about communism like it's the rituals of some uncontacted tribe or something. it's an extremely modern ideology
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 08:29:31 No. 581254
>>581250 >ronald raygun is host Pottery.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 08:41:35 No. 581262
>>581250 This one too.
I'm serious, these anti-communist propaganda films make communists look gangsta af.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 19:35:14 No. 581855
>>581246 Making communism look “foreign” was a key strategy used by the American feds.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 19:41:52 No. 581861
to all the americans who feel like op: read mike davis' Prisoners of the American Dream
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 19:44:06 No. 581864
>>581861 "Labour's Untold Story" by Richard Boyer is absolutely essential as well.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 21:17:17 No. 581967
>>581864 Based fellow tabby.
Although, that book made me cry like a baby.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 22:33:01 No. 582079
>>581271 This is like an SNL skit.
Anonymous 2021-11-04 (Thu) 22:51:59 No. 582110
>>581981 >the Comintern ordered the CPUSA to organize southern blacks, Don't call anyone an outside agitator without evidence.
Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 04:06:01 No. 582494
I feel another thing to consider is that during the first red scare thousands of radicals were arrested with hundreds deported as a result. You can imagine this would dissuade many from action or even entertaining organizing ideas in private conversation. This was at a time when the still resident American communists were trading their prior syndicalist praxis for the Leninist centralization. With the failed general strikes many saw promise organizing in accordance to the Russian revolution. The conditions of America didn't lend itself well to creating the sort of dual power structures that found success for the Bolsheviks. If anything it was less of revolutionary potential squandered as it was stillborn by capitalist concessions. As with every aspect of America degenerating since mid 20th century so have the communist parties in their ability to affect the worker's psyche. Personally find it funny hearing of the second red scare propaganda's claims of a international conspiracy. Whereas the conspiracy was that of global capital against labor. It must be understood that no life under the dominion of capital is desirable. Completely unacceptable despite what the liberals say. They beg for crumbs all the while as if this current realm of societal organization is at all salvageable. The destruction of the USSR and the degeneration of the very fabric of America has led us back to square one. No more is there time for bickering in ideological squabbles which have no effect in our immediate every day lives. As if this site is a coffee house or pub of the yesteryear
Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 07:11:38 No. 582583
>>582494 >With the failed general strikes many saw promise organizing in accordance to the Russian revolution. That, and the fact that many American socialists who were ex-syndies visited the Soviet Union and watched in awe of how the Bolsheviks were able to turn a war-torn rural shithole into a thriving society.
https://www.marxists.org/archive/foster/1924/russ24.htm https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/strong-anna-louise/1925/first_time/index.htm Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 08:14:18 No. 582603
>>581271 >international criminal conspiracy I wish…
Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 10:39:13 No. 582652
My favorite part of American Communist history is the Kuzbass Autonomous Industrial Colony. IWW tried to get people to immigrate to the USSR. This was before the Yanks for Stalin migration.
Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 11:28:09 No. 582668
>>582110 It was a good idea and they were right to do it. But people act like the CPUSA were amazing anti-racists when in reality they had the same lukewarm attitude towards blacks as the rest of the socialist movement, until the Soviets ordered them into Alabama.
CP leaders bragged about being able to turn on a dime to follow the Comintern line, then get all upset when people brand them as agents of a foreign power.
Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 12:06:45 No. 582694
It has nothing to do with the massive anti-communist propaganda campaigns and fear-mongering, that's for sure.
Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 12:11:12 No. 582699
>>580547 >I've seen American history high school textbooks and they always go from the Gilded Age to the First World War without ANY mention of labour struggles. There's a logical reason for that. We learned about Battle of Blair Mountain and strikers and Pinkertons and all that in my regular no AP history class(California.)
Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 20:48:44 No. 583546
>>580547 >>580564 Daily reminder McCarthyism had nothing to do with the threat of “communism.” It had everything to do with antisemitism and antiblackness indicated by how Black people and Jews were the primary targets . The US had no real problem with communism as it continued trading with the Soviet Union (which itself was antisemitic and anti-black).
(False pretenses rule outside of /siberia/) Anonymous 2021-11-05 (Fri) 21:42:55 No. 583658
>>583546 0/10 trolling
Better luck next year.
Anonymous 2021-11-06 (Sat) 08:54:06 No. 584474
>>584463 >equating communism with nazism Of course.
Anonymous 2021-11-06 (Sat) 10:51:02 No. 584580
>>580532 >Why are Americans so ignorant about the history of communism in their own country? Because they're lied to from birth by their rulers.
Anonymous 2021-11-06 (Sat) 11:42:49 No. 584633
>>583546 McCarthyism was mainly a Republican strategy to regain political power after 15 years of Democratic hegemony by smearing pro-USSR liberals and communists who had integrated into the DNC during the Popular Front. It had little to do with racism or national security and everything to do with American establishment party politics.
Anonymous 2021-11-06 (Sat) 22:19:21 No. 585505
>>582583 It's not that they were wrong to study the successes and admire developments in the USSR. The conditions that led to the Bolshevik's seizure of power simply didn't present themselves in America. So by reorganizing along Leninist principles it strategically did very little for the broader communist movement. At least in my opinion it divided the class conscious American workers and Marxist ideologues rather than synthesizing both. It's that which started the movement on it's path to further failure. Much the reason for the new left to have come from the college campuses instead of the shop floors. That's aside from communists being banned from participating in yellow unions. The American left weakened itself through divisive pigeonholed ideological measures. It was easily dismantled by bourgeois state repression as a result.
>>582668 This, without the USSR's support the CPUSA is not much more than a Marx and Lenin book club with contacts abroad
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 07:12:28 No. 586012
>>585505 Interesting how Maupin places the blame for communism going from factory to college campus is "the CIA" rather than the failures of the CPUSA itself.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 07:17:47 No. 586015
>>584463 Video cuts out and jumps in several places.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 09:06:46 No. 586079
>>584463 13:10 - OH FUCK MAUPIN
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 09:13:25 No. 586083
>>586008 that picture shows 10 replies, did anyone refute it or did they all just call them a fuckhead and laugh?
neither response is wrong btw Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 09:20:12 No. 586087
>>586083 They mostly said the poster was being schizo without providing any counter-evidence.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 10:08:35 No. 586100
>>585505 >without the USSR's support the CPUSA is not much more than a Marx and Lenin book club with contacts abroad CPUSA has 10,000-15,000 members and is growing by the hundreds every month. It is by far the largest communist organization in the country.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 10:49:50 No. 586116
>>586100 Bold claim, even if so what does that mean in the current day? As far as i know they're the "vote blue no matter who" crowd. Practically and functionally how are they better than liberals? Just being anti-capitalist doesn't exactly make you a communist that is for sure. Spreading class consciousness is fine and well in itself
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 16:46:41 No. 586489
>>586116 >As far as i know they're the "vote blue no matter who" crowd. Not really. They tend to endorse Democrats in presidential elections, their reasoning being that the CPUSA itself has no chance of winning, and that the Democrats tend to be less aggressive in foreign policy. We may well dispute this second point, but it's a position the party holds based on consultation with their foreign contacts in Cuba, China, etc. In terms of local elections they obviously run and endorse their own candidates.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 18:35:12 No. 586670
>>586008 >he enthusiastically supported World War I Half-truth, and this guy is most certainly a butthurt anarkid.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 21:00:03 No. 586866
>>580532 This video is pure whitewash.
Maupin will never say anything critical of American communists or his heroes.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 21:19:43 No. 586896
>>580532 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States If you want slaves don't educate them as masters. Honestly, most of what burgers know even about their own country and their own history comes from cartoons and sitcoms. They don't even know most of the stuff that wasn't actively covered up, so what do you expect?
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 21:21:52 No. 586900
>>580532 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._Mitchell_Palmer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palmer_Raids "Others were teachers conducting night school classes in space shared with the targeted radical group. Arrests far exceeded the number of warrants."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angela_davis Vice presidential candidate and teacher, most wanted by FBI.
Purges don't happen in real democracies. State sanctioned political violence doesn't happen in America. SlAvErY dIdN't HaPpEn. America is great country. Somthing sumthin CRT taking our guns into our schools with our illegal border mandates is western civilization war on Christmas.
You tell me what happened.
Anonymous 2021-11-07 (Sun) 21:27:08 No. 586906
>>586905 What that is supposed to mean?
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 05:27:48 No. 589376
>>589303 Browder was a douchebag, we know.
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 16:29:12 No. 590050
>>581142 Good point. On that note, we should ignore Huey Newton and Angela Davis. Oh wait, they're not failures because they're BLACK COMMUNISTS.
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 17:08:36 No. 590098
>>590050 The black bourgeoisie has arguably done more for black people than black communists have. I hate to say it but that’s just fact. The biggest problem in all black communities is lack of intergenerational wealth. That’s why having black millionaires and billionaires is a key step towards black liberation whether you approve of it or not.
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 17:12:50 No. 590108
>>590098 >The black bourgeoisie has arguably done more for black people than black communists have. Yeah like what? Becoming establishment Dems so they can ruthlessly enforce mass incarceration and the war on drugs? Voting to send young black men to die in Iraq?
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 17:21:03 No. 590120
>>589303 The sad thing is, nothing in this video is technically wrong.
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 17:23:10 No. 590125
>>590108 You think communists do anything for a community that has been historically forbidden to accumulate wealth when they say “wealth is bad?” Blacks need their own rich so they can be liberated. Go to the south side of Chicago and tell them it’s a good thing to be poor and they’re wrong for desiring material goods.
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 17:40:37 No. 590148
>>590125 This is cap and you know it.,
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 18:56:34 No. 590279
>>589303 7:23 – the CPUSA were advocating accelerationism?
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 19:19:45 No. 590305
>>590125 lmao that's a strawman and you know it
Anonymous 2021-11-09 (Tue) 20:35:16 No. 590402
>>590125 This post gave me diarrhea.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 04:45:04 No. 593378
>>586489 >it's a position the party holds based on consultation with their foreign contacts Exactly my point as to why i personally couldn't care less to join and pay dues to the CPUSA. More power to those who wish to rebuild the party. I view them simply as a more radical DSA functionally, nothing more.
b8
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 04:47:52 No. 593382
>>586008 Why is fedjacketing becoming so common on the left nowadays? Tankies accuse anarchists of being feds, anarchists accuse Maoists of being feds, Maoists accuse Trots of being feds, what the fuck dudes?
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 05:17:02 No. 593427
>>593382 Just retards being smoothbrained. Sure the state's apparatus has near limitless resources. Except they can't just outright openly kill people for agitation without repercussions (yet). Disruption through proxy is the next best thing. Get everyone paranoid and the radicals do the fed's job for them, simple as. Exactly why the actions of American antifa are all just posturing and impotent larping. Sure the right wing groups lost in the 2010s culture war but it was a pyhrric victory. Identity politics are palatable to liberals over class issues. So as a result the rhetoric of reactionary agitation has spread to be commonplace. Only it has been emboldened by the Biden presidency. Cope there is to be had is the proletarianization of the petty bourgeoisie due to the lockdowns. It's up to us to lead them to class consciousness by our actions.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 05:29:23 No. 593449
>>590098 >The black bourgeoisie has arguably done more for black people than black communists have. I'm not sure there is much of a black bourgeoisie.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 05:36:24 No. 593457
>>590098 Is this a WaPo quote?
this guy, with the help of the labor movement, did more for black americans than any black billionaire
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A._Philip_Randolph Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 05:38:04 No. 593458
>>593427 Well the American culture is becoming more liberal from a long-term perspective if you go back decades. We'll sometimes have trolls come in and say "how does the right keep winning the culture war" but that's not the actual beliefs of the vast majority of conservatives in America. They might try to buck themselves up from time to time or win some temporary victories but the impression I get from them is a belief that they've been getting shellacked.
Some say that Noam Chomsky has gone soft or whatever, and sure, but it's interesting to hear his perspective when he's been asked about that, because his belief is that Americans are way more enlightened about social issues than when he was a kid.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 05:39:48 No. 593459
>>580532 >Americans They again? It's no question. They have been indoctrinated into capitalist propaganda.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 05:40:05 No. 593460
>>590125 > tell them it’s a good thing to be poor and they’re wrong for desiring material goods. Either you're a complete retard who understands nothing or i took the bait
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 06:00:29 No. 593479
>>593458 Chomsky was never very radical TBH.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 06:18:00 No. 593500
>>586008 I'll repeat what I said when this was posted in ITG.
One factor as to why the state or porky wouldn't want to kill a beloved labour leader is fear of retaliation from his loyal followers. Think about how gangs wars will often erupt from rival gangs seeking revenge on each other for having killed one of their homies: it's exactly like that.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 08:03:22 No. 593629
>>593458 >Well the American culture is becoming more liberal from a long-term perspective if you go back decades Hardly a measurement of success in our favor. There are some parallels between the early 20th century left and the goings on of the modern radical right. The right wing groups have been going through their own phase of "propaganda of the deed". At the same time it has been a concentrated effort in recent years to discredit right wing racially focused politics. The state uses this to pit right wing radicals against their leftist antifa/blm counterparts. Both become preoccupied street fighting as mortal enemies. Think of the culture war as a proxy war and it will start to make more sense. Today average right wingers feel as if the "American way of life" is constantly under attack by liberal degenerates bankrolled by the Chinese (or the jews depending on who you ask). Pushing them back into hiding has only made them become more radical in secret and unpredictably dangerous.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 08:44:37 No. 593670
>>593629 Which is scary, because being anti-establishment is how you gain legitimacy in the eyes of an ever-angry public.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 08:58:29 No. 593674
>>593629 >Today average right wingers feel as if the "American way of life" is constantly under attack by liberal degenerates Yeah, well, when did they not think that?
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 09:01:25 No. 593677
>>586008 Survivorship bias. Feds can’t kill all of them.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 09:10:52 No. 593685
>>593674 It's more pronounced now that 1. the American standard of living has plummeted in the past 40 years, 2. liberals care way more about catering to oat milk latte-sipping white liberals on the coasts
(most of whom don't have children and work yuppie jobs) than they do about fixing the very real problems of poverty and failing infrastructure in "Middle America", and 3. globalization has resulted in large waves of immigration which (like it or not) does result in cultural change (for instance, certain American towns that were almost entirely white 30 years ago are now overwhelmingly Hispanic today).
Basically, the white married man with three or four kids living in Indiana feels as if the political and social climate don't reflect his values anymore, and he's not entirely wrong.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 09:17:30 No. 593692
>>593677 They wouldn't want to kill all of them either. Remember, the labour movement in the US was way more violent than we think of it as having been today. Unions would literally send goons out to attack members of rival unions, very similar to what we see today with street gangs. If one of their most beloved leaders had been (God forbid) killed by the state, you know there would have been horrible acts done in retaliation.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 09:24:25 No. 593699
>>593692 Forgot to add that rallying behind a martyr is always one of the most powerful ways to mobilize people in a political sense.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 10:06:00 No. 593725
>>586008 The feds didn't kill him but they watched him 24/7.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 13:14:30 No. 593873
>>593378 >Exactly my point as to why i personally couldn't care less to join and pay dues to the CPUSA. That makes zero sense. That position on sometimes supporting Dems in presidential elections is one based on consultation with people in countries which are actual targets of US imperialism. Certainly if people in Cuba are able to perceive a meaningful difference between the Dems and GOP on American-Cuban relations, it would be the height of burger chauvinism to tell them they're wrong.
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 13:14:56 No. 593875
>>593629 >>593685 Culturally and socially the USA is the most permissive and to the "left" that it's ever been
Economically the USA is more conservative and to the "right" now than it has been in the past, particularly since the 1970s
It's interesting to think about how these things have diverged, and how not seeing this divergence causes a lot of confusion among political normies
Anonymous 2021-11-11 (Thu) 23:29:14 No. 594553
>>581268 When will this “CPUSA were puppets of Moscow” bullshit end?
Anonymous 2021-11-12 (Fri) 01:34:31 No. 594658
>>580532 >Why the fuck was I not taught about any of this in high school? Why was the “threat” of communism portrayed as something irrational and the Red Scares came out of nowhere when in fact communists were numerous in America and were extremely dedicated? Because it was the only legitimate political threat to the establishment in the United States, it was being suppressed. They did not want these generations mobilized politically, they wanted them to be mindless automatons who knew no other alternatives than the current system. That's obvious. And they wanted the parents terrified whenever they kids got in to any of this stuff. It all worked perfectly.
Anonymous 2021-11-12 (Fri) 01:38:24 No. 594660
>>581268 >>581271 God I wish the CPUSA was this powerful
dumptruck !!HVQ6LN3IP. 2021-11-12 (Fri) 01:54:24 No. 594669
for some reason whenever I see the CPI logo I am reminded of Leftyband
Anonymous 2021-11-12 (Fri) 02:02:43 No. 594679
It's an attempt to cover up how brutal the repression really was.
Anonymous 2021-11-12 (Fri) 10:31:26 No. 595064
>>582622 So this is basically a NazBol sect of the CPUSA, got it.
Anonymous 2021-11-12 (Fri) 11:59:15 No. 595084
>>594965 To Be Attacked by the Enemy Is Not a Bad Thing but a Good Thing
Anonymous 2021-11-12 (Fri) 21:27:57 No. 595570
>>595084 Agreed but it’s more important that you actually achieve shit.
Anonymous 2021-11-12 (Fri) 22:59:10 No. 595681
>>593873 The pointless bourgeois political institutions should be dismissed as illegitimate on principle alone. The CPUSA seeks to be damage controllers when they participate in the super structure of american imperialism doing so. The entire point of communist parties are to educate and direct the masses. To be worth their salt preferably towards class consciousness. Sam Webb, mislead the party for years. All for him to quit the party for life within bourgeois politics. The future of the party shows promise, still there is much work to be done to rebuild.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 00:57:24 No. 595790
>>580532 A better question is: why do people like Maupin assume the Old Left was somehow idyllic when it was full of sexism and racism, authoritarianism, economism, and class-collaboration? The New Left wasn’t done CIA conspiracy but something which emerged due to all the problems the Old Left couldn’t overcome.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 00:59:53 No. 595794
>>595790 Was it really? Come on, now
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 01:02:23 No. 595798
>>595794 Yes plus both anarchists and Marxists of the time pushed Malthusianism (look up birth strike) and eugenics among other things. Unions are the first to push for immigration restrictions. And no one gave two shits about the indigenous (worker movements have been notoriously anti-indigenous for centuries).
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 01:13:56 No. 595808
>>595790 >sexism and racism, authoritarianism, economism don't care fuck you lib kys
>althusianism (look up birth strike) <noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo you cant chose to stop having kids porky needs his cheap labour kys
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 01:15:18 No. 595809
>>590125 where do find people like this I want to go call them retards
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 01:19:48 No. 595816
>>595790 the fuck even is economism
>pushed Malthusianism (look up birth strike) good
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 01:31:43 No. 595825
>>595808 >>595816 >Malthusianism is okay when we do it Fuck off.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 01:35:29 No. 595830
This is only tangentially related but Im a leaf (i.e. even more ignorant than the average burger on history of American labour movement) and I'm currently reading Howard Zinn's 'A People History of the USA" and it's damn good. I already had bits and pieces of the story in my head but the way Zinn weaves it all into a single narrative is very enlightening.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 01:53:16 No. 595853
>>595825 >people choosing to have less kids is wrong because …… it just is okay Caleb, if you like kids so much impregnate your wife and leave us out of it
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 02:07:17 No. 595876
>>595853 Leave the kids out of it too, it shouldn't be something they're burdened with.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 02:24:49 No. 595889
>>595798 >>595825 Birth strike would have made perfect sense in 1913 when child labour was widespread and those children were literal slaves.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 04:05:06 No. 595952
>>595889 if we just don't have kids for a good 20 years we could basically end capitalism
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 04:38:11 No. 595977
>>595952 There are unintended consequences with lower birthrates too. For instance, birthrates are at a record low in my city, and as a result nearly all of the new housing developments (read: condos) are made for childless hipsters rather than families. Basically, the units are very small and only made for two people (and maybe their dog) despite being priced anywhere from 500k to 1 million CAD. Plus places where children used to play, like playgrounds and basketball courts, are being dismantled and turned into dog-walking parks. It's like developers DON'T want people to breed anymore.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 09:15:03 No. 596105
>>596103 Again, birth strike is pretty ridiculous in today's day and age.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 16:23:32 No. 596290
>>595889 a kid born now will only live a grim life where everything gets worse until he dies, he might not even remember when things were okay, we would I want to plunge someone this dying world
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 16:47:52 No. 596311
>>596103 >linking to fucking instagram,(not even a damn screenshot) kys uyghur
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 17:36:50 No. 596324
>>596105 Yes, it's somewhat pointless in the current moment what with labor migration, but there's no reason not to encourage it universally.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 17:49:01 No. 596328
Maupin is revisionist to a level that was previously unimaginable.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 21:25:47 No. 596536
>>596328 He throws other leftists under the bus in an attempt to cater to reactionaries. Notice how he's tweeting anti-vaxx shit now.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 21:34:03 No. 596544
>>596328 >>596536 What Maupin is doing is pure tailism. He never grew out of his Trotskyist mindset.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 21:52:43 No. 596557
>>596544 >tailism, claiming he and his gang are the only "true socialists" and everyone else is "fake/synthetic left", fedjacketing any leftist tendency he disagrees with, constantly invokes failed socialist movements like the old CPUSA, obsession with selling his books Once a Trot, always a Trot.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 22:44:28 No. 596603
Beware of radicals like elridge cleaver and assata shakur, they will only due harm as they already have done
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 22:48:55 No. 596610
>>580532 I lost all respect for Maupin last night when he went on Hinkle’s show. Hinkle is a POS and it’s upsetting to see someone so well-read as Maupin cater to him.
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 22:51:07 No. 596614
>>593873 as much as I respect Cuba, we shouldn't concede to meaningless positions that only poison the well we drink from
Anonymous 2021-11-13 (Sat) 23:49:10 No. 596642
>>596557 >fedjacketing any leftist tendency he disagrees with, I’ve never seen Trots do this. Usually it’s Maoists who go around calling everyone a fed.
Anonymous 2021-11-14 (Sun) 00:34:00 No. 596689
>>593873 whats the likelihood that the Cuba beurocrat who endorced the Dems was a CIA plant?
Anonymous 2021-11-14 (Sun) 01:28:31 No. 596800
>>596724 spellin iz for queers
Anonymous 2021-11-14 (Sun) 01:29:45 No. 596801
>>596732 fair enough, trots have never done anything to harm other leftist sects
because they have never been in a position to do so Anonymous 2021-11-14 (Sun) 05:46:36 No. 597170
>>597169 I like the picture of Bob Avakian's bowling team getting a riot going in New York when Deng Xiaoping visited prompting Bob to "flee" to France out of fear that the U.S. government would prosecute him.
Anonymous 2021-11-14 (Sun) 05:47:42 No. 597173
>>597170 Imagine what would've happened is they Assassinated Deng.
Anonymous 2021-11-14 (Sun) 23:27:07 No. 598017
>>582622 Too corny to be enjoyable but not corny enough to be amusing.
Anonymous 2021-11-16 (Tue) 04:46:49 No. 600344
So, we can all agree McCarthyism was the death of American communism?
Anonymous 2021-11-16 (Tue) 04:57:46 No. 600352
>>600344 It was actually the Popular Front
Anonymous 2021-11-16 (Tue) 07:25:10 No. 600475
>>600462 >f a capitalist builds an air conditioned factory in the third world
Anonymous 2021-11-16 (Tue) 22:15:16 No. 601514
>>581271 Amazing how all these words describe capitalists.
Anonymous 2021-11-17 (Wed) 01:14:03 No. 601716
>>583546 > The US had no real problem with communism as it continued trading with the Soviet Union (which itself was antisemitic and anti-black). Revisionist history.
Anonymous 2021-11-19 (Fri) 04:14:01 No. 605063
>>603730 18:20 - is the film implying they fucked?
Anonymous 2021-11-19 (Fri) 21:57:53 No. 606688
>>583546 I fucking swear Sakai makes this exact same argument.
Anonymous 2021-11-22 (Mon) 08:41:10 No. 611669
>>611658 This is the Falun Gong YouTube channel, right?
Anonymous 2021-11-22 (Mon) 08:51:58 No. 611680
>>582622 The last five minutes of this film will never not make me rage.
Anonymous 2021-11-25 (Thu) 12:02:15 No. 616588
Are y'all really talking about anti-communist propaganda without mentioning our certified boy Estus Perkel?
Anonymous 2021-11-25 (Thu) 12:28:43 No. 616607
>>616592 >the reign of terror >origins of communism Lmao. One thing I find particularly insidious about liberals is the projection of the excesses and violence of
their own revolution onto communism, as if an ideology that had yet to exist is somehow responsible for the violence of the bourgeois revolutions. It's both a attempt to scapegoat the left and a cowardly refusal to engage with how the social order which they themselves support came into being.
Anonymous 2021-11-25 (Thu) 20:30:24 No. 617073
>>616345 You can tell how fucking corny the dialogue sounds.
Anonymous 2021-11-26 (Fri) 21:12:42 No. 618550
>>616592 If anything, "Dark Origins" sounds fucking cool and if I was a kid and my first exposure to communism was a title like that, I would jump on board with it by that simple reason.
It's like that cool skeleton communism reactionary propaganda of decades ago.
Anonymous 2021-11-26 (Fri) 23:39:26 No. 618921
>>618711 >communism sought not only to stomp out her life A fetus isn’t a baby yet ffs.
Anonymous 2021-11-27 (Sat) 19:53:53 No. 620321
>>618921 Tell that to Maupin who has been posting on Twitter non-stop about how abortion rights are actually a Malthusian conspiracy by the deep state.
Anonymous 2021-11-27 (Sat) 21:47:35 No. 620513
Foster just wanted power and Browder just wanted clout. No wonder the CPUSA failed miserably.
Anonymous 2021-11-27 (Sat) 23:18:29 No. 620691
TBH the only thing good which came out of the CPUSA is all the folklore about them.
Anonymous 2021-11-27 (Sat) 23:35:09 No. 620720
>>581268 This guy’s face is way too punchable.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 02:00:28 No. 620964
>>620691 What’s some CPUSA lore?
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 02:52:19 No. 621062
>>620964 Gus Hall receiving over $2 million every year from the USSR.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 03:09:10 No. 621087
>>621062 Damn what the fuck, how the fuck did this dude stayed chairman during 41 years while doing nothing. Doing the math he gained $40 millions dollars. Did he scam the USSR
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 03:57:27 No. 621160
>>620964 If you went against the Party line you'd either die mysteriously or be sent to Moscow where you'd "disappear".
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 04:16:46 No. 621178
>>586900 >Purges don't happen in real democracies. On the contrary, in
real democracies the most powerful and potentially dangerous figures in society are banished by the citizenry for ten-year periods.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 04:34:23 No. 621193
>>620964 Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs were AKSHUALLY guilty.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 04:40:57 No. 621203
>>620964 Foster and his faction were hand-picked by Moscow to run the Party and Lovestone and his faction were deliberately sabotaged.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 04:47:48 No. 621214
>>620979 This one is documented so it's certainly true.
>>620994 A conspiracy involving over 1000 people would have left a gigantic paper trail that the feds would have immediately picked up on.
>>621062 >>621087 This is cap.
>>621160 This one comes from SNITCHaker Chambers' memoir, so cap.
>>621193 Dunno about Hiss but the Rosenbergs were 100% framed.
>>621203 Most likely cap. Anything that has to do with the CPUSA being Soviet puppets is certainly propaganda used to delegitimize them.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 09:26:21 No. 621441
>>620994 A deeper conspiracy is, Bella Dodd never named anyone. I read somewhere that a Teachers Union affiliate said there was no evidence she ever gave the names of fellow teachers to HUAC.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 10:36:48 No. 621484
>>580602 what the fuck, no non soviet communist party ever did that i hope, sounds like propaganda
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 17:05:37 No. 621985
>>621484 It's how the feds justified repressing them, that and all the "overthrow the government" bullshit.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 18:37:13 No. 622094
>>621441 Oh she definitely named people in her public testimony. One of those people was Einstein, lol.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 19:17:33 No. 622152
You weren't taught these things because the history of organized labor is a threat to the establishment.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 19:18:38 No. 622153
>>620513 >leftcomm Opinion thoroughly discarded.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 19:22:10 No. 622162
>>620994 Paul Kengor definitely pees sitting down.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 21:04:29 No. 622235
>>621250 Rappers do get convicted based on song lyrics. To say otherwise is pretty racist.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 21:10:35 No. 622237
>>620964 Attractive communist chicks were sent out to seduce men in hopes of recruiting them into the Party.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:03:19 No. 622268
>>622237 I’d unironically do this today if I had a worthwhile org to recruit people into and I wasn’t a fucking butterface.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:14:59 No. 622277
>>622275 Yes. “Cis” and all that.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:20:49 No. 622280
>>622268 Some dudes are into the butterface honestly. It’s about as made up as the jawline thing incels made up. You could attract a lot of dudes regardless of the minor facial differences that sway away from western beauty standards.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:23:19 No. 622282
>>580532 Social histories were phased out of our public education curricula and those who specialized in them were largely purged from academia. As the trade union movement declined after WW2 and statewide university systems emerged in the wake of Vietnam, it became increasingly rare for your average person to learn anything about the 'real' US history, like the intentional communities and early socialist organizing of the 19th century, and of course our stubborn transition to more explicitly communist methods in 20th.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:24:27 No. 622285
>>622235 That’s not the entire reason though. Feds follow paper trails. Usually, they find a rat and going off on what the rat says look for paper, who’s connected to who, who’s transferring money to whom, etc. If the feds nab you and your buddies on a RICO charge it’s because they already have more than enough evidence to prove you did something. That’s why RICO is notoriously hard to beat with something like a 93% conviction rate.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:29:57 No. 622288
>>622280 I’m white as snow, kek.
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:36:12 No. 622292
>>622282 To this day it's still pretty rare to see anyone publish new social histories of going-ons in the United States. Here's one on the monopolization of light:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/146965332X/ Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 22:50:28 No. 622306
>>622288 Dudes are really into that. Especially Asian dudes
Anonymous 2021-11-28 (Sun) 23:15:40 No. 622331
>>620979 How many current CPUSA members are feds?
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 02:25:12 No. 622501
>>622237 Did this really happen?
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 05:28:49 No. 622636
>>620964 Thomas Hart Benton, the biggest name in 1930s 'realist' art in America and mentor of Jackson Pollock, got so mad at criticisms laid against him from CPUSA-adjacent art critics that he moved to Kansas City; thus ending his 20+ year long New York period.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 05:31:40 No. 622638
>>622636 Oh and Philip Guston, a childhood friend of Jackson Pollock, got his earliest commissions from the Hollywood John Reed Club, who were raising funds in solidarity with the Scottsboro Boys. The JRCs were the cultural arms of CPUSA.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 05:41:05 No. 622643
>>622636 >>622638 Is this why Maupin hates Pollock's art so much?
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 05:52:24 No. 622651
>>622638 FYI: Lots of new books have been published on Guston recently on account of there being exhibitions planned last year, but many were postponed due to the 'sensitive' nature of his later work, which involved a return to figuration and resulted in cartoonish depictions of KKK members.
>>622643 I don't know what Maupin has to say re:Pollock but I imagine it's the usual braindead philistine communist response citing the CIA covertly funding 'abstract' art through the CCF. They usually have nothing to say regarding federal arts patronage under the New Deal, which is a much more interesting and pertinent conversation to have now imo. One thing's for certain though: there is no Pollock without Benton.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 06:02:17 No. 622655
>>622651 >They usually have nothing to say regarding federal arts patronage under the New Deal, which is a much more interesting and pertinent conversation to have now imo. It's important to keep in mind that the history of mid-century American modern art is a history of artists being compelled to cede their newfound status as wage laborers (after the Works Progress Administration was formally dissolved in 1943), and reenter the art market once again as self-employed artists. Many artists who were fortunate enough to receive private arts patronage in a then ascendant post-war gallery system admittedly got their start working for the WPA for instance; Pollock himself being one of them. I guess that might be why Maupin doesn't like him; it taints his rosy-eyed image of communism being nothing but massive infrastructure and social projects.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 06:50:36 No. 622683
>>622643 Jackson Pollock was a communist and the CCF stopped funding his art exhibits when they found out.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 07:07:18 No. 622691
>>622683 Pollock worked in David Alfaro Siqueiros' workshop but I wouldn't go so far as to say he was a communist. Lots of artists who dabbled in New Deal liberalism's appropriation of "Social Realist' art received the ire of federal agents one way or another though. Siqueiros himself was barred from reentering the country after leading an assassination attempt on Leon Trotsky, lol.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 07:09:16 No. 622693
>>620964 Probably happened more when he was in the labor movement, but how many times did Foster get arrested and spend time in jail? Wasn't he snitched on multiple times by multiple different informants?
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 07:12:52 No. 622695
>>622691 >New Deal liberalism's appropriation of 'Social Realist' art Some of the best Social Realist art was made in the years leading up to this (often with a marxist or otherwise proletarian tinge) and under the cultivation of the John Reed Clubs.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 07:25:10 No. 622700
>>622685 Caleb Maupin wants to include a much broader range of workers in socialist politics. He is having a spat with people who want a more exclusive club.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 07:30:08 No. 622701
>>622700 It's more the fact that *how* he said what he said was offputting to a lot of people. All he had to say was "I will work with people with whom I disagree on some issues." As soon as he denounced abortion and gay marriage as "culture wars" many people came out to educate him, which he of course said were "threats."
He doesn't understand it's not what you say but how you say it that matters.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 07:42:12 No. 622704
>>622700 The opposite. Maupin wants socialism to be much more narrowly focused on large-scale infrastructure and state management of the economy, whereas the people he's beefing with understand leftism to be more holistic in terms of social issues being handled alongside economic ones (there is no dichotomy between the two despite what Maupinoids want you to think).
I personally think Maupin's views are kind of outdated, in the sense that he's pushing a political program that's essentially a hangover from the CPUSA in its "good days" rather than taking modern cultural attitudes into account. I'm sorry, but you just can't market an anti-abortion or anti-gay/anti-trans socialism in 21st century America.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 07:48:01 No. 622708
>>622685 Caleb and Meches confirmed sexless marriage.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 08:13:13 No. 622714
>>622713 This dude's a good speaker.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 09:07:12 No. 622748
>>622701 >It's more the fact that *how* he said what he said was offputting to a lot of people. All he had to say was "I will work with people with whom I disagree on some issues." I think he had to say it in a way that it decenters the synthetic left, for it to work, expanding the inclusion to a wider range of people naturally changes the center. The synthetic left is abusing the language of social rights as a way to attack people who question their claims to managerial status. Neither party is talking about literally gay marriage or abortion. These words have become social signifiers with an entirely different meaning. They are having a meta-discussion and Maupin is telling the synthetic left : "No we do not accept you as our superiors". And they are attacking Maupin as if he was somebody that was opposing them in corporate board meeting, like a power struggle in office politics. You can read Ludwig Wittgenstein's philosophy of language to understand what's going on here. (it's not the best explanation and there are problems with Wittgenstein's philosophy, but you'll get at least an idea about what's going on in this case)
There are actual far right people who do want to turn back the clock and bring back discrimination against gays and take away self determination from women. These people are not being hounded by the synthetic left, because that is not pulling into question their claim to managerial status. On the contrary they leave the far right alone because their existence is a threat that can be used to blackmail people who are actually socially progressive. (which the synthetic left is definitely not)
>>622704 >The opposite. Maupin wants socialism to be much more narrowly focused on large-scale infrastructure and state management of the economy. See this is retarded, expansion of infrastructure is the most inclusive policy you can imagine, because literally everyone can use infrastructure. Maybe you have forgotten that infrastructure was literally the escape route for gays, to get away from the village preacher who was telling them they had daemons. Infrastructure was what allowed them to move to cities where they found other people like them. That is what gave them a voice.
>whereas the people he's beefing with understand leftism to be more holistic in terms of social issues being handled alongside economic ones (there is no dichotomy between the two despite what Maupinoids want you to think). You don't understand what this is about. There is a huge rift, on the one hand their are builders looking to change the environment, and the other side of this debate are those who seek to change people.
If you change the environment for people so that their life becomes easier, it will cause reduced survival pressure stress and people will naturally become more progressive, voices that ask for acceptance will be listened too and voices that ask for exclusion will be ignored.
The neoliberal system is shrinking the nice environment with low survival pressure stress and therefore the synthetic left is focused on making their club more exclusive. They are busy throwing people overboard because they think that will secure them. The synthetic left is attacking maupin because he is asking to include more people on the boat. Maupin wants to rebuild the boat to make it bigger, but the synthetic left has no mental ability to comprehend this because their hole focus is on changing people not changing circumstances. They think the size of the boat is immutable.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 09:29:40 No. 622760
>>622748 >synthetic left Bogus term. You can't call it "synthetic", because it obviously has a very real and organic appeal to people. Even if you believe this ideology was all CIA engineered, it still took hold for a reason.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 09:38:26 No. 622767
>>622748 >There are actual far right people who do want to turn back the clock and bring back discrimination against gays and take away self determination from women. These people are not being hounded by the synthetic left, because that is not pulling into question their claim to managerial status. The right-wing IS criticized for these things, dipshit.
The reason people go after Maupin is because he considers himself a person on the left, while the views he holds absolutely cater to the right. I would expect someone I know as my enemy to fuck me over, I wouldn't expect that from a friend.
No one is against infrastructure, goofy. Building infrastructure isn't contingent on catering to the right by throwing women and queers under the bus.
The proper thing is to do both, and Maupin has expressed his desire to change people. Why else does he emphasize "Christian values" so much?
And you don't do that simply by building roads. That's ridiculously reductionist. No one is against roads, we just recognize that roads aren't the only factor at play here.
No, they're attacking Maupin because he sells out leftist principles all while calling himself a communist. If he said everything he did without proclaiming himself to be in the tradition of communism then no one would dogpile on him or even care.
Keep in mind, Maupin goes on 20-minute rants about why he thinks modern art and Nietzsche are driving people to suicide, and why we need "strength".
Obviously, he wants to change people. Ask him if he'd accept a satanist in his org and he would say no. Ask him if he's accept someone sexually promiscuous in his org and he'd say no.
Or, just ask him why he even bothers with making propaganda like "Jesus was a socialist". Why do that unless you're willing to change people's morals?
Like it or not, the "synthetic left" IS the left. The values Maupin is espousing are closer to American Protestant identity politics than any firm grip on the left.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 09:45:11 No. 622770
>>622748 Even the synthetic left supports infrastructure, m8. I don't think anyone wants to see roads and bridges deteriorate. In fact, building railroads to ween people off cars is something even the most insane green-haired grad student endorses.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 09:59:07 No. 622781
>>622760 All things belong to the purview of reality, sure. But 'synthetic' can be taken as synonymous for 'duplicitously inculcated against people's veiled better interests, inorganic by way of having been imposed'.
There's always going to be some degree of 'organic enmeshment' found in the engorgement of all tautologically apparent parts of reality, but the question as to any such thing's sustenance concerns the means by which it consolidates its appeal. Power is almost always the answer as to both the how and the why.
I
n this respect, such power is not usually commonsensically determined to be 'organic', because it is engineered from the top-down, abstracted in origin from the very people it then inculcates itself within. Much the same way (to use an extreme example) slavery could be perceived as organic with respect to its material bases, but was nonetheless never reified as organic at the level of those who were on the victim (or victim-sympathetic)-end of it.
'Organic' usually connotes some commonsensical notion of grassroots culmination which owes its origin to populism, NOT something which only finds its expression amongst the popular form of expression only as an acculturated consequence of its indoctrination.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 11:52:03 No. 622848
>>622760 >You can't call it "synthetic" I think it's a descriptive name, because it's based on politics as a commodity.
>>622767 They are hounding Maupin, but they aren't doing that to rightists. The politics of people are motivated by economic interests. (if you disagree with this statement then you need to read Marx) Maupin is definitely further left on economics than the synthetic left. And in the social debate Maupin is attacking their privilege of superiority. That makes Maupin a greater threat to their material class interests than the rightists, and that is why they are attacking him harder.
Of course there is enormous resistance against infrastructure by capitalists and their lackeys (which includes parts of the synthetic left). They don't want public spending, and they want to cut off the pathways the plebs could use to access the centers of power. The ones that made it onto the boat, want to cut off the bridge so nobody else can get on it. Maupin isn't throwing women and queers under the bus, i already explained that this is a meta debate about managerial privileges. You are behaving like the vampires in Mark Fishers Castle:
<The danger in attacking the Vampires’ Castle is that it can look as if – and it will do everything it can to reinforce this thought – that one is also attacking the struggles against racism, sexism, heterosexism. But, far from being the only legitimate expression of such struggles, the Vampires’ Castle is best understood as a bourgeois-liberal perversion and appropriation of the energy of these movements.
Please read the attached PDF
>And you don't do that simply by building roads. That's ridiculously reductionist. Reductionism is good, it's a needed process for clarifying and simplifying your thoughts, it creates space for more complex and broader reaching considerations. You are also constructing a shameless strawman argument, i told you about builder politics, the priority is put on creating the beneficial environment, it doesn't mean that social struggles are thrown out. It just has an inverted social hierarchy, the people that talk about shaping the environment are given precedence over the people that talk about shaping the opinions and thoughts. It's not more or less social progressive, it's just a different social hierarchy, that prioritizes what is on the outside of people over what is on the inside of people. The synthetic left have the opposite priorities. From a materialist perspective it is impossible to have social progress without first re-shaping the environment. It is very idealist to think you can abolish slavery without creating steam engines, agricultural tractors and weaving machines. The same logic applies to the social progress of the 20th century you never get gay rights without first creating modern infrastructure. (which btw is crumbling in most parts of the first world).
I think the synthetic left has sold out, when they started supporting imperial chauvinism. When all of a sudden democratically elected leaders of countries are demonized as dictators, you'll know what's up.
I haven't seen Maupin's rant on Nietzsche, but i don't like Nietzsche either, he says people will relive their own lives over and over in an endless loop, if you are somebody trapped in precarious work, always on the brink of losing the roof over your head, this is very depressing indeed. Politics of strength appeal to people of lower economic status, politics of victim-hood or weakness appeal to people with a high economic status. People that feel weak want to appear strong, people that feel strong want to appear weak.
Maupin just wants to undermine the binary politics of the bourgeoisie, and he is just copying parts of liberation theology from south America and adapt it to north America. If he is successful it will desolve "christian fascism" that Chris Hedges describes in his book American Fascists: The Christian Right and the War on America (included as an epub)
The synthetic left is locked into bourgeois politics, and you statement is only true if bourgeois politics is your horizon. It is so impotent that it can't even do mild reformism.
An actual left will arise on the basis of coalitions that culminate in political engagement of the masses, the synthetic left is not able to do that because they hate the masses, they look down on them as subjects they ought to whip into shape, not as a political sovereign they ought to serve.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 12:27:11 No. 622857
>>622848 >Of course there is enormous resistance against infrastructure by capitalists and their lackeys (which includes parts of the synthetic left). They don't want public spending, and they want to cut off the pathways the plebs could use to access the centers of power. Yeah, you're right about that, but how are you going to make them? I feel the international corporate and financial-capital oligarchy has outgrown the nation-state. The right-wing populists have tried to buck them but they've buckled under immediately to the globalists (if not parasitically dependent on the same structures as well) so to speak because the latter hold all the cards. Caleb is talking about reviving FDR's great projects? Is that even possible today? Finance capital is opposed to these measures and it being globalized makes this opposition decisive.
https://monthlyreview.org/2019/07/01/neoliberal-capitalism-at-a-dead-end/ That's the rub which prevents Americans from joining a global left-wing project, since it prejudices them against left authority everywhere (but especially overseas).
I vant to suck your blooood
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 12:29:12 No. 622860
>>622848 >If he is successful it will desolve "christian fascism" that Chris Hedges describes in his book Liberation theology in countries like Brazil grew out of Catholic congregations as a reaction to US foreign interventionism. Liberation theology in the US, broadly-speaking, has an Evangelical base that is historically reducible to Mormonism. Surely you can see why that's a problem.
>>622855 In the real world we just call it 'controlled opposition'—hell, 'parapolitics' is a less goofy sounding term than 'synthetic' or 'vampire castle'
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 12:42:23 No. 622872
>>622860 Like if you look at CPUSA's predecessors; American socialism has a long history in the 'radical' reformist tradition. By the late 19 century this bizarre intersection of spiritualism, the abolitionist movement and early organized labor managed to supersede the utopian or otherwise intentional communities that emerged from the Second Great Awakening. Maupin might have a better time framing his liberation theology from there if that's a path he's seriously considering.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 14:41:21 No. 622949
>>622748 >..on the one hand their are builders looking to change the environment, and the other side of this debate are those who seek to change people. >If you change the environment for people so that their life becomes easier, it will cause reduced survival pressure stress and people will naturally become more progressive That's a lot of words just to describe New Urbanism; the belief that if we just changed the built environment then people would change too has been a core tenet of liberal architectural criticism for at least the past decade. It's not enough. Read Manfredo Tafuri.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 17:02:13 No. 623058
>>595790 >class-collaboration How do you think subversive organizations are able to stay around for so long? It's usually cooperation with the government or porky in one way or another.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 17:05:00 No. 623060
Because historical communists today would be called patriotic chauvinists
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 17:14:49 No. 623069
>>622872 The biggest issue here is that Church attendance in the US is at a record low. This isn't just in blue states either but across the board. The number of Americans who identify as "Christian" has also steadily decreased and many find they no longer relate to Christianity as a set of teachings.
>>622949 TBH I've also found the "build infrastructure, people will gain morals" thing to be reminiscent of liberalism. It's what the early Enlightenment humanists promoted.
I think Caleb's heart is firmly in the right place, but he gets a lot of things wrong because he clings to outdated ideas so tightly. That's one reason why a lot of other serious leftists laugh at him even if they admire his activism. I wish he would learn from the criticisms his critics give him.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 17:23:37 No. 623076
>>623058 >How do you think subversive organizations are able to stay around for so long? It's usually cooperation with the government or porky in one way or another. This is way oversimplified.
On one hand, refusing to engage in class-collab ensures that revisionists and other assholes are kept out of your movement and your org is firmly dedicated to the classes it claims to be fighting for.
On the other hand, you could easily make the argument that most socialist orgs were only successful due to their willingness to compromise. Compare what the CPUSA accomplished in the 1930s with what no-name ultraleft Maoist groups do; it was only because the CPUSA was willing to collaborate with FDR and intellectuals, etc. that they gained their biggest successes.
Also, if Foster had never left the IWW for the AFL, and had gone to jail for refusing to support the war, he would have never been able to organize meat packers and steel workers, for instance.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 17:27:37 No. 623081
>>623076 Should have also mentioned the obvious: had the Chinese communists never collaborated with the national bourgeoisie they would have never won the fucking war.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 19:58:22 No. 623180
>>622857 >Yeah, you're right about that, but how are you going to make them? I feel the international corporate and financial-capital oligarchy has outgrown the nation-state. They can't do shit against the Chinese government, so that must be wrong.
>>622949 >the belief that if we just changed the built environment then people would change too has been a core tenet of liberal architectural criticism for at least the past decade. Are you denying that people are a product of their environment ? That's ruling class discourse, to obfuscate that the hostile environments they create are the cause of many problems.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 20:03:03 No. 623188
>>623180 >That's ruling class discourse, to obfuscate that the hostile environments they create are the cause of many problems. It’s not all one or the other. Even Maupin holds that the Second Great Awakening was the primary cause for the abolition of slavery in America. Without that change in people’s viewpoints brought on by religious institutions that movement would have never happened.
Anonymous 2021-11-29 (Mon) 22:24:38 No. 623352
>>623180 >Are you denying that people are a product of their environment? No, I'm saying a simple change in the environment can produce an explosion in heterogenous identities—some not always being positive.
>>623188 >Without that change in people’s viewpoints brought on by religious institutions that movement would have never happened. Exactly! Once you look past all of the wacky shit that went down in the burned-over district you'll find a tale as old as capitalism itself.
Great book great book:
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/89468.A_Shopkeeper_s_Millennium Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 00:23:11 No. 623487
>>623352 Says a lot that Maupin can understand why *his* Protestant sect has such great importance in revolutionizing American culture, yet denounces the synth-left for believing the same about their own efforts.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 00:33:18 No. 623496
>>623180 >They can't do shit against the Chinese government, so that must be wrong. Well, I'm not China. And China isn't an autarkic state. They had to make adjustments. But they're also making moves to rearrange the global system and transform it. I think it's better to think in these terms. The western left is fighting among itself rather than uniting with a global movement to get the world out of this mess.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 00:36:10 No. 623498
>>622704 >you just can't market an anti-abortion or anti-gay/anti-trans socialism in 21st century America. Literally never said any of that, retard.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 00:38:39 No. 623499
>>622685 >Its not enough to tolerate me and my degenerate lifestyle– you also have to praise it 24/7 and make it the center of your attention at all time. Fucking kys you people are scum of the earth
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 03:56:24 No. 623691
>>622685 I'm getting really fucking sick and tired of his paranoid obsession with "Malthusians."
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 04:17:42 No. 623700
>>622235 This. How many deathmetal vocalists get convicted off of song lyrics?
[skip to 1 minute] Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 05:52:34 No. 623762
>>623700 how many deathmetal [songwriters] use their songs to brag about things they did? how many gangs prize deathmetal as a cultural icon?
I'm not saying [x] is ok, I'm saying this is a stupid false equivalence.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 11:19:18 No. 623939
>>622704 >I'm sorry, but you just can't market an anti-abortion or anti-gay/anti-trans socialism in 21st century America He isn't. He's saying that socialists need to be willing to work with workers and oppressed people who have backwards views on social issues like abortion and queer rights. Otherwise you risk falling into the trap of supporting Israel because it's the "queer capital of the Middle East and Hamas are homophobic" or some other such radlib nonsense.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 11:25:09 No. 623941
>>623939 He should just say *that* then and save himself the trouble.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 11:25:56 No. 623943
>>623939 I might vehemently disagree with Israel and imperialism supporters but…
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 11:28:02 No. 623945
Like, that's really his main issue. You can never tell if he's being sincere or if he's playing a game. He comes across as a sleazy huckster and car salesman who hangs around LaRouchites (ultra-glow) and works for Russian state media. People simply don't trust the guy.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 11:30:55 No. 623946
>>623941 He did. He literally said that he himself supports legal abortion and gay marriage, but that socialists need to be willing to work with people who don't. It isn't his fault Twitter is full of illiterate liberal retards.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 11:55:24 No. 623953
>>623946 >He literally said that he himself supports legal abortion and gay marriage Well I don't believe him.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 12:45:11 No. 623981
>>623953 Well anybody can be called a fascist if you just accuse them of holding those beliefs in secret. Certainly what can be said is that Caleb has never taken action to oppose abortion or gay marriage, so it's really irrelevant whether he agrees with them or not. What is true however is that disagreement on these issues can't be a deal breaker for collaboration.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 12:56:52 No. 623987
>>622704 >The opposite. Maupin wants socialism to be much more narrowly focused on large-scale infrastructure and state management of the economy, whereas the people he's beefing with understand leftism to be more holistic in terms of social issues being handled alongside economic ones (there is no dichotomy between the two despite what Maupinoids want you to think). No such thing as leftism. Leftism is retarded.
Communism is based.
The focus should absolutely be on infrastructure projects as they benefit everyone. Infrastructure projects by their nature benefit everyone.
A new motorway/high speed train/high speed internet/hospitals/education reform with equal access etc is about the most egalitarian thing you can do
Whilst members of the "left" (like green and environmentalist retards) think infrastructure projects should be curtailed for "muh environment" faggotry
Green politicians in Germany for instance are responsible for Germany outputting more coal useage and relying on Russian gas for energy because they forced the closure of nuclear power plants (the actual cleanest energy)
>I personally think Maupin's views are kind of outdated, in the sense that he's pushing a political program that's essentially a hangover from the CPUSA in its "good days" rather than taking modern cultural attitudes into account. I'm sorry, but you just can't market an anti-abortion or anti-gay/anti-trans socialism in 21st century America. anti-abortion/anti-gay or anti trans fags vs pro abortion/pro gay/pro trans fags isn't socialist
You can have the most advanced socialist society (which DPRK is given Chinas/Cubas and Vietnams reforms) which DPRK is explicitly anti LGBT
LGBT has nothing to do with socialism. you can have LGBT rights in a socialist society (like DDR) and you can have zero LGBT rights like DPRK
It's just a cultural divisive issue thrown out by billionaires to make you feel justified for voting the international crime syndicate and war criminals you call the Democratic Party
> he's beefing with understand leftism to be more holistic in terms of social issues The Left isn't purely a drug infested, nihilistic hippy hug fest and the quicker we can get back to class warfare, class reductionism and class solidarity is when communism will take root in America and not whether you smoke dope, suck cock, want to chop your cock off or hug trees
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 13:04:01 No. 623990
>>623987 >Green politicians in Germany for instance are responsible for Germany outputting more coal useage and relying on Russian gas for energy because they forced the closure of nuclear power plants (the actual cleanest energy) Actually it was Merkel, who was center right and possessed a DDR phd in physics, mainly because Fukushima spooked her.
7ko 2021-11-30 (Tue) 13:48:25 No. 624018
>>622748 good writeup there
>>623188 Isn't the economic base decisive though, in the dialectic with superstructure? People don't get ideas dropped magically into their heads just because, if one takes the materialist perspective. The culture of a mobile society of hunter gatherers would, to not very much surprise, likely have a lot of differences from that of a static, mostly sedentary society of subsitence agriculture. Communism itself's first ideas did arise due to the development of modern industry, the construction of packed cities, and the concomitant agglomeration of the new proletariat into said industrial cities.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 14:16:58 No. 624042
>>623987 >the left has no position on social issues, we should focus on economics <but also >The Left isn't purely a drug infested, nihilistic hippy hug fest and the quicker we can get back to class warfare, class reductionism and class solidarity is when communism will take root in America and not whether you smoke dope, suck cock, want to chop your cock off or hug trees really makes you think
You clearly have a (conservative) social position, so stop lying about it
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 14:29:39 No. 624047
>>624042 >>the left has no position on social issues, we should focus on economics I didn't say that.
The "left" has plenty of positions on social issues.
It's literally all they talk & care about.
They are absolutely uninterested in economics and prefer aesthetics and any attempt at conversation about economics around these people results in "class reductionism".
You know, the only thing that unites people as opposed to their Post-Modern (antiMarxist) deconstructionalist analysis where everyone gets silo'd into their own box to live the greatest experience they can as a black chicano lesbian or whatever (under a neoliberal economy of course)
>You clearly have a (conservative) social position, so stop lying about it I clearly do and don't feel the need to lie about it. Normal working people don't approach politics from a ironic, detached, middle class academic venture but from their real concrete material interests. And when they begin to turn toward communism no doubt we'll have to make common cause with racists (mostly the ignorant folk not active racists), anti abortionists as well as the cocksuckers and crossdressers because surprisingly socialism will need to be built by the broad masses of society and not a small virtue signalling clique who see in socialism a Christian purity they can admonish themselves for their next lives
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 14:39:42 No. 624053
>>624042 This is what conservatives are like. They don't say "I hate you," it's always "why are you making me hate you?" But this reflects their general lack of principles, inner emptiness, spiritual deadness and untruthfulness of the age, to paraphrase Engels, and it's right to rebel against it. "We are waging a war to the death against all these things."
>>624047 >mostly the ignorant folk lol
"I hate virtue signaling" = "I wish people who believe in things would shut the fuck up about it already."
People who broadcast their ideas are more likely to spread them than those who keep their ideas to themselves. Building a community relies on all kinds of repetitive signaling of shared beliefs. The dominant ideology also never shies from repeating itself in the flimsiest of cliches, and it uses our shyness about repeating ourselves as a weapon against us.
It's said that a lie repeated often enough becomes true, but it's even more true that a true thing not repeated enough fails to grip the masses and attain any meaningful purchase on reality.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 15:00:56 No. 624072
>>624053 >>mostly the ignorant folk >lol So you think the majority of the working class that might say some problematic things about different peoples is an active racism rather than stemming from ignorance?
Holy fuck if that's true then how did the Soviets build a socialist society when pogroms against jews happened routinely prior to Soviet power (and even during the civil war)?
>"I hate virtue signaling" = "I wish people who believe in things would shut the fuck up about it already." If they actively believed in them might be one thing but it's so patently obvious that they don't and they only flash those credentials like multi national corporations do
>but it's even more true that a true thing not repeated enough fails to grip the masses and attain any meaningful purchase on reality. The only unifying thing that can ever possibly grip the masses is their class position and their class interest.
Otherwise you end up like this guy
>>622700 and yourself writing off half the population because of their backward beliefs in some obscure sexual politics when most working people are too tired to have sex
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 15:07:09 No. 624077
>>623981 >Well anybody can be called a fascist if you just accuse them of holding those beliefs in secret. Certainly what can be said is that Caleb has never taken action to oppose abortion or gay marriage, so it's really irrelevant whether he agrees with them or not. I'm calling him deceitful. It's up to you if you want to follow a person like that or not.
>>624072 >Holy fuck if that's true then how did the Soviets build a socialist society when pogroms against jews happened routinely prior to Soviet power (and even during the civil war)? By waging ideological struggle against anti-Semitism. They didn't make common cause with ignorance.
>>624072 >If they actively believed in them might be one thing but it's so patently obvious that they don't I do believe in those things and I don't get any "virtue" out of it here because I'm anonymous. I'm not building any brand.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 15:08:00 No. 624079
>>624077 >I'm calling him deceitful. Based on what? What has he actually done to make you think he opposes abortion and gay marriage?
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 15:19:58 No. 624091
>>582699 >California I feel like that state, much like Texas, is a whole different country in itself tbh.
That wouldn’t surprise me.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 15:26:13 No. 624100
>>624090 >Now you're not only essentializing people, but trying (pathetically, I might add) to engage in the same "cancel culture" behavior that you decry. OK I don't care that much about this conversation.
"Virtue signalling" doesn't exist
Mmmmmkay
Cancel culture isn't such a popular phenomena precisely because of the phenomena of virtue signalling
You can't converse with someone who denies something exists
>to engage in the same "cancel culture" behavior that you decry You just said cancel culture doesn't exist and isn't a phenomena. How can I engage in it?
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 15:28:32 No. 624103
>>624090 Luna is literally Misaki from Welcome to the NHK (politics edition) what the actual fuck.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 20:44:02 No. 624528
>>623058 How is collaborating with the bourgeois state any different than working with the cops or FBI?
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 20:45:24 No. 624531
>>623060 They did the patriotism bullshit and it failed.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 21:30:47 No. 624589
>>624531 Yeah because the US managed to integrate a huge portion of its working class into bourgeois hegemony via imperialism and concessions. That's why the CPUSA failed, not because they sought to construct a socialist-compatible concept of patriotism.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 21:41:07 No. 624603
>>624589 >Yeah because the US managed to integrate a huge portion of its working class into bourgeois hegemony via imperialism and concessions. And this is what you are advocating to happen again, not any meaningful implementation of socialism
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 21:47:18 No. 624612
>>624603 >And this is what you are advocating to happen again What makes you say that? Anti-imperialism is a core tenet of at least some of the patriotic socialist currents, just as it was with the CPUSA.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 22:32:48 No. 624709
>>624612 CPUSA sold out every group of people they claimed to fight for.
Anonymous 2021-11-30 (Tue) 23:49:20 No. 624832
>>624822 >sold out workers >sold out blacks >sold out Puerto Ricans >sold out Japanese Americans Whitey can’t be trusted to do socialism.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 00:08:04 No. 624874
>>624832 >'ate workers >'ate blacks >'ate Puerto Ricans >'ate Japanese Americans >love settlerism >love imperialism >simple as t. The CPUSA apparently
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 00:47:09 No. 624944
>>624874 Isn't that what J. Sakai says?
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 01:16:21 No. 624967
>Why are Americans so ignorant about the history of communism in their own country?
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 04:25:12 No. 625147
>>603730 The thumbnail is priceless.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 05:36:56 No. 625189
>>618711 Cap. Having a kid should make you more communist, not less.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 10:16:22 No. 625335
>>623060 >>624531 >Because historical communists today would be called patriotic chauvinists Historical communists
<Can a Communist, who is an internationalist, at the same time be a patriot? We hold that he not only can be but also must be. The specific content of patriotism is determined by historical conditions. There is the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler, and there is our patriotism. Communists must resolutely oppose the "patriotism" of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler. The Communists of Japan and Germany are defeatists with regard to the wars being waged by their countries. To bring about the defeat of the Japanese aggressors and of Hitler by every possible means is in the interests of the Japanese and the German people, and the more complete the defeat the better…. For the wars launched by the Japanese aggressors and Hitler are harming the people at home as well as the people of the world. China's case, however, is different, because she is the victim of aggression. Chinese Communists must therefore combine patriotism with internationalism. We are at once internationalists and patriots, and our slogan is, "Fight to defend the motherland against the aggressors." For us defeatism is a crime and to strive for victory in the War of Resistance is an inescapable duty. For only by fighting in defense of the motherland can we defeat the aggressors and achieve national liberation. And only by achieving national liberation will it be possible for the proletariat and other working people to achieve their own emancipation. The victory of China and the defeat of the invading imperialists will help the people of other countries. Thus in wars of national liberation patriotism is applied internationalism. Mao,
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/works/red-book/ch18.htm Stalin,
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1952/10/14.htm <The patriotism of the bourgeoisie, said Marx, has degenerated into shear hypocrisy since its financial, trade and industrial activities have acquired a cosmopolitan character. <Marx counterposed proletarian internationalism to bourgeois cosmopolitanism and pointed out that the victory of the proletariat over the bourgeoisie was a prerequisite for the elimination of national conflicts and the liberation of the oppressed nations. <The dissemination of the pseudo-scientific Mendelian and Morgan “theories” in biology, the idealistic and metaphysical conceptions in physics, psychology and teaching and, in general, the propaganda of objectivism in science, formalism and abstraction in art, the spreading of the idealistic, decadent “theory” that literature and art must be divided from the people and from reality—all this goes hand in hand with the intensification of brutal police repressions against honest and patriotic-minded cultural workers, with the systematic deterioration of their living standards and invariable reductions in budget allocations for cultural needs. All this is done on the U.S. model and on its insistence. All this is tainted with cosmopolitanism. The real content of cosmopolitanism in the realm of culture is reaction and decadence of a neo-fascist character; it is the penetration into other countries of the well known barbaric culture which characterises imperialist America. As with the struggle for peace, for independence and against the colonising policy, the struggle for culture demands that cosmopolitan tendencies to be resolutely repulsed. Georges Cogniot, Cosmopolitanism—Weapon of Predatory U.S. Imperialism
https://revolutionarydemocracy.org/archive/Cosmopolitanism.htm Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 14:13:40 No. 625458
>>620994 >and this was the primary cause of Vatican II. Based if true.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 14:45:56 No. 625474
>>620994 wtf is "Vatican II"?
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 17:02:41 No. 625571
>>618711 >Chambers claimed that the Communist Party wanted his wife to abort their first child Anyone have solid proof the CPUSA did this shit aside from the words of paid snitches?
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 17:35:30 No. 625612
>>625335 There’s a huge difference between the indigenous people of a country being patriotic, vs settlers being patriotic to their colonial settler project.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 18:25:16 No. 625673
>>624944 Sakai is a fucking ideologue who deliberately butchered his sources to make his argument.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 21:27:23 No. 625918
>>625831 Spoken like a true settler.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 23:13:27 No. 626097
Protip: sophomore sociology courses in American universities routinely assign J. Sakai as required reading.
Anonymous 2021-12-01 (Wed) 23:14:24 No. 626100
>>626097 I don’t believe this
Anonymous 2021-12-02 (Thu) 00:55:14 No. 626267
>>626097 I also don't believe this. We'd never hear the end of it from College Republicans if that were the case.
Anonymous 2021-12-02 (Thu) 01:37:00 No. 626294
>>625918 are Mexicans settlers?
Anonymous 2021-12-02 (Thu) 10:33:08 No. 626640
>>625918 I'm native to my country so actually no…
Come to think of it my ancestors may have "settled" on top of the normans…but they settled on top of the romans….but they settled on top of the celts ad infinitum of Sakai retardation
https://thecharnelhouse.org/2017/05/15/dont-bother-reading-settlers-by-j-sakai/ Anonymous 2021-12-02 (Thu) 16:47:19 No. 626949
>>626640 Charnel House is run by Hegelian Zionists.
Anonymous 2021-12-02 (Thu) 23:14:20 No. 627607
>>620964 Unironically Maupin and Haz’s attempt to infiltrate them and overthrow their current leadership.
Anonymous 2021-12-02 (Thu) 23:45:23 No. 627629
>>618711 Ain't got no time for no snitches, so who witness it gets it.
Anonymous 2021-12-03 (Fri) 02:41:58 No. 627735
>>580532 Can someone PLEASE give Caleb a comment or two telling him to quit romanticizing the CPUSA in the 1930s?
Anonymous 2021-12-03 (Fri) 03:36:19 No. 627771
>>620964 That they were always secretly Trotskyist-leaning.
Anonymous 2021-12-03 (Fri) 04:59:32 No. 627880
>>620964 >>621203 Jay Lovestone working with the CIA in the 1950s.
Anonymous 2021-12-03 (Fri) 16:59:22 No. 628354
>>627979 So much facepalm.
Anonymous 2021-12-03 (Fri) 17:40:58 No. 628406
>>580589 Joke’s on the government; CPUSA was always Trot-leaning.
Anonymous 2021-12-03 (Fri) 22:39:12 No. 628816
>>628406 This is a joke right?
Anonymous 2021-12-03 (Fri) 22:49:59 No. 628838
>>626640 Sakai needs to be thrown in the trash for deliberately quoting out-of-context and misrepresenting facts.
Anonymous 2021-12-04 (Sat) 08:48:54 No. 629540
>>624967 A few thoughts. Personally, I think most of these debates are pretty boring because they assume the CPUSA could've taken power in the United States if it had "done what I believe in" or whatever, when the reality might be that it was just never going to happen no matter what the party did. It's uncomfortable for people to accept that you could do everything *right* and *still* lose. That doesn't rule victory out forever and in the future, since one can't predict the future, but so much of what happens in history is like a series of car crashes or accidents. Historical forces are never linear, and events that seem predetermined now were often hardly predicted when they happened. What does happen is that people explain and interpret the past in such ways to meet the political needs of the moment (or what they believe the political needs require).
–
I've boosted this before, but the Chinese show "Minning Town" is great because it's like "mass line: the show." But it doesn't depict the work of a CPC cadre in a rural village doing poverty alleviation as glamorous. It depicts his job as fucking difficult and hard and it sucks. And every time they make some progress, they immediately get hit with another problem. "Two steps forward, one step back" is the theme of the show. Progress is tortuous: not a straight line. I think this video visualizes it in a different way.
–
One problem for "patriotic American socialists" is that the foundations of the American national identity is built on a creed. Americanism is the American system itself, the Constitution, and what are a set of fundamentally liberal values discrete from the paradigm of blood, soil, culture, and even language (although English is the dominant one). That's because the United States, as a country of immigrants, grew up by assimilating many different nationalities and cultures over its history so it needed a different way of binding people together. So, in this paradigm, to disavow the American political system is to disavow Americanism – it means being anti-American. To be a "patriotic American communist" doesn't make any sense.
Another thing about the United States is that it has steadily grown larger and more powerful for a very long period of time. America has always "been on the rise" in the world. Americans like to believe their system is the best and they won't accept any rivals or allow anyone to tell them what to do. They believe American values are universal and that everyone else in the world is secretly American inside, and their Americanness is just trying to get out, and Americans' job is to help them do it. Many Americans believe, not just the elites.
So how do you change this? Hell if I know. The thing is, this might not last forever. But one thing that could happen is that America could seriously fuck up and fail. That might be starting to happen especially with the rise of China catching up and possibly – in the future – surpassing the United States which is running into more and more difficulties dealing with its problem. Now imagine the U.S. getting into a serious conflict with China and failing. The other thing is that people might begin to doubt the American system because they trade identifying with America so much for an internationalist mindset possibly occurring in tandem with relative U.S. decline.
Anonymous 2021-12-04 (Sat) 19:21:52 No. 630411
>>629540 CPUSA tried the Bolshevik strategy and failed miserably. Stop romanticizing them and keep them in the dustbin of history.
Anonymous 2021-12-06 (Mon) 00:05:11 No. 632578
>>580532 Americans suck at history in general.
Anonymous 2021-12-07 (Tue) 04:02:22 No. 634296
>>630411 >Stop romanticizing them and keep them in the dustbin of history. I'm sorry, but any socialist movement in the US will ultimately be in the legacy of the old CPUSA.
Anonymous 2021-12-08 (Wed) 20:08:43 No. 636371
>>580532 >Why are Americans so ignorant about history They have none so for now the current solution is to make people believe thats normal
Anonymous 2021-12-09 (Thu) 16:57:48 No. 637795
>>636371 This. Americans literally have zero history.
Anonymous 2021-12-09 (Thu) 20:26:15 No. 638148
>>581268 Sounds like a rat.
Looks like a rat.
100% certain he smelled like a rat too.
Anonymous 2021-12-10 (Fri) 17:18:18 No. 639973
>>620744 >and millions of dollars in gold bars which they bought with Soviet money back in the 70s which they buried in the desert. Please be true…
Anonymous 2021-12-10 (Fri) 22:31:07 No. 640386
>>580564 Wait, Lucy was really a comrade?
Anonymous 2021-12-12 (Sun) 21:09:24 No. 642804
>>581271 Which one are you?
Anonymous 2021-12-12 (Sun) 22:03:52 No. 642882
>>642175 >It's from Labor's Untold Story. Based book. It should be required reading for all American and Canadian comrades.
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 01:51:26 No. 643276
>>642882 It makes me cry like a bitch every time I read it (I'm a grown woman over 30 FYI).
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 02:53:40 No. 643355
>>642175 This is pure hagiography.
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 07:10:25 No. 643502
>>643355 >hagiography And? He was well-loved.
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 07:42:48 No. 643520
>>627642 Cringe on all accounts.
Anonymous 2021-12-13 (Mon) 18:22:43 No. 644058
>>643355 Imagine thinking a “hagiography” is a bad thing.
Anonymous 2021-12-14 (Tue) 15:02:12 No. 645311
>>618711 Interesting how these stool pigeons would say EXACTLY whatever fit Joe McCarthy and the FBI's narrative.
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 15:15:27 No. 648199
>>618534 >>618711 What book is this?
Anonymous 2021-12-16 (Thu) 16:30:43 No. 648255
>>629540 >Americans like to believe their system is the best and they won't accept any rivals or allow anyone to tell them what to do. They believe American values are universal and that everyone else in the world is secretly American inside, and their Americanness is just trying to get out, and Americans' job is to help them do it. And that's exactly the reason why communism must be built in America first. Not merely because the USA is the most developed capitalist nation, but because the people are ideologically primed to be in favor of world revolution. The task of 'flipping' American civic belief towards socialism may be near-insurmountable, but if it could be done the task of spreading the revolution would be that much easier than if it happened in, say, Germany or Brazil.
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 07:34:55 No. 649192
>>649151 >compares communism to vultures He does realize communism turned Russia and China (and Cuba, and Nicaragua, and others) from shitholes into global superpowers, right?
Anonymous 2021-12-17 (Fri) 16:45:07 No. 649617
>>648199 "Christian: The Politics of a Word in America" by Matthew Bowman
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 08:07:25 No. 650754
>>650589 There was a cause to to not fold for. There is no movement now.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 08:07:50 No. 650757
>>650754 That's exactly what I said.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 08:15:08 No. 650771
>>650753 Jesus fucking Christ, how many aliases does one person need?
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 12:43:23 No. 650989
>>636371 U.S unironically has more history than basically every other New World country on planet earth
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 12:49:41 No. 650993
>>648255 Exactly. The U.S was birthed in revolutionary liberal Enlightenment, as Marx and Lenin themselves pointed out, unlike European and Old World nations which are trapped in ethnic nationalism and historicism, the U.S is instead trapped in civicism; its identity as a nation is bound up in its civic belief. It's why I get so pissed off reading about our based early IWW, Socialist Party etc history, because we could've been so much more.
Had the U.S embraced socialism, it would've unironically been a Red Napoleon, in the same way its been a Blue Napoleon in the 20th and 21st century, protected by the Atlantic and Pacific Oceans and dedicated to exporting Revolution at all costs (the spread of its civic belief). This combined with its greater material output would mean it would've had much more success in actually exporting revolution. But the bourgeoise in the U.S won the domestic class war and crushed the proletariat. God I hate the porkies and dream of world revolution.
EDIT: Reposting because a seething Euro-slug janny decided to delete my post for some reason topkek.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 18:56:23 No. 651338
>>650989 Depends on what you mean by history. Because Euro-Americans (among others) lost so much of their traditional cultures when they migrated they had to build up an entirely new culture from scratch. This is arguably one major reason why every time an ideology or religion gets distorted it always occurs in the United States (it's not like hundreds upon hundreds of different Protestant denominations originated in Europe, for instance).
I'm an America who has lived abroad before (study abroad in Prague, spent an entire summer in Greece, lived in Mexico with a friend for almost two years) and can confirm that people elsewhere don't really "get" Americans even if they "get" people from other New World countries. At least in places like Argentina the population is much, much more connected to its Spanish/Italian European roots than most Euro-Americans are.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 21:27:02 No. 651596
>>642175 >>642882 Sad how you’re far more likely to read Settlers in a university course than this masterpiece.
Anonymous 2021-12-18 (Sat) 23:48:42 No. 651708
>>651596 Because Settlers is far more relevant history to us today in the sense that white supremacy and settler-colonialism are still heavily present in the US whereas you rarely ever see class struggle occurring within the factory.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 00:07:23 No. 651738
>>651596 Would love to see any actual evidence of Settlers being assigned reading in a US university course.
Universities in the US are incredibly liberal, you aren't reading radical shit of any kind lmao. They are reading White Fragility and shit.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 00:21:11 No. 651755
>>651738 We read chapters of it in a sociology class I took as a junior….
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 05:40:29 No. 652040
>>651738 >Settlers >radical shit Settlers is de-radicalization propaganda.
Anonymous 2021-12-19 (Sun) 06:17:33 No. 652078
>>652040 Correct. The entire premise of the book is that Americans are too immoral for socialism so American socialists are hopeless.
Anonymous 2021-12-20 (Mon) 01:23:15 No. 653367
>>651708 >whereas you rarely ever see class struggle occurring within the factory Do the last few years of strikes not count? Moreover America's actual relations with its minorities no longer really resemble settler colonialism. The condition of racialized people in America more closely resemble those of Europe than they do Israel.
Anonymous 2021-12-20 (Mon) 01:42:16 No. 653392
>>653367 >America's actual relations with its minorities no longer really resemble settler colonialism. Gonna have to disagree on this.
Anonymous 2021-12-20 (Mon) 18:34:58 No. 654238
>>653392 On what basis? Generally speaking the encroachments on indigenous lands are for shit like pipelines or resource extraction than settlement, and black and hispanic people are just proles who also experience racial discrimination. Imo settler colonialism is only useful to describe a situation wherein displacement and settlement is experienced by a ethnically distinct segment of the population to the benefit of another part. That doesn't really happen anymore. The condition of racialized people in America more closely resembles that of minorities in Europe than it does the Palestinians.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 17:43:54 No. 661778
>>653190 Race reductionism is better than class reductionism.
Anonymous 2021-12-26 (Sun) 17:46:25 No. 661779
no one reply to it
Anonymous 2021-12-27 (Mon) 04:12:53 No. 662438
>>580532 Caleb is terrible to listen to.
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 04:21:02 No. 677216
>>618711 >CPUSA forced its members to have abortions Super cool story bro.
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 20:40:54 No. 678390
>>677216 It’s 100% bullshit. That would have come up during the Red Scare hearings.
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 21:03:07 No. 678436
>>650771 However many you'll need! The Bolsheviks used aliases so as to dodge Tsarist authorities; not much has changed.
Anonymous 2022-01-06 (Thu) 21:03:54 No. 678437
>>678436 Where were you when you learned "Joseph Stalin" wasn't even his real name?
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 21:30:00 No. 680407
>>580532 I love how Maupin talks about the old CPUSA the way anarkids talk about Catalonia.
Anonymous 2022-01-07 (Fri) 21:37:08 No. 680425
>>680407 There's still a lot of forgotten history from the early days of the party that needs rediscovering, but yeah; don't wanna romanticize it too much.
Anonymous 2022-01-08 (Sat) 22:46:48 No. 682354
>>680425 >a lot of forgotten history from the early days of the party that needs rediscovering Such as?
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