/leftypol/ - Leftist Politically Incorrect

>What exactly happened to […] culture?
Read adorno

>>635277
>see second image
>realize all the tech in 2020 is available today
>realize all the dystopian shit is even worse irl
I don’t know to laugh or cry

>>635279
I'm kinda lazy, but I will
>>635284
And we don't even get the cool aesthetics

>>635284
FUAAAAAAAAHAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

>>635277
Well, since we're going that path, let's go full sooner mode

>>635300
*doomer

>>635277
Nobody has given an alternative. This is the pitfall of purely being critical, it’s just the necessary precondition for actual subsumption into something new but by itself it can feel very nihilistic. You can see what exists and understand its flaws, but being unable to overcome it positively it appears as though it is some endless hell. Counter culture has always been doomed to subversion because every counter culture that I can think of is at best a kind of tantrum in the hurricane. There is nothing positive about them, they’re always overtly complaining or “rejecting” dominant culture, but they don’t offer an alternative outside of the embodiment of the complaint. Like, the punk bands had to eat so they sold tickets and became products, and while some hippies went out and formed rural communes they were mostly exceptions to the rule of slinking back into urban work culture, and those rural communes were like recapitulating the conflict between the peasantry and the landowners. That conflict was lost hundreds of years ago. They just did exactly what those peasants did, tried to hold on to what they still had while the landlords and bourgeoisie expanded and dispossessed the peasant class en masse, except the hippie communes were so marginal that for the most part nobody tried to snuff them out and rather just left them to suffocate on their own. Only the ones with guns and whatnot got literally attacked by feds.

>How did the capitalist ideology completely co-opt practically all the subversive cultural expressions into meaningless products?

Because that's how capitalism works

>I really feel like "chan" websites in general, together with "incel" culture, are the last remaining subversive counter cultural expression we have today (despite them being mainly right-wing)

You are unfortunately correct with that statement

>>635312
Well, than why isn't the left-wing chan community much larger?
Why do pseudo subversive people prefer twitter, Tumblr, or even telegram or reddit?
How come they be more comfortable in the regulated, liberal cyberspace?

right wing is the new counter culture
right wing is the new punk

>>635277
In a developed capitalist society the counter culture elements are commodified until they become empty shells of their former selves. Hippies wore patched rags because anti consumerism, well know you can buy shit designer clothes already trashed to imitate this style for a lot of money.
Counter culture exist in small islands, not already recuperated or existing in a protracted struggle against capitalism, like squats, ZADs, communes etc.
Chans are relics from early internet that were, in the west at least, either subverted or went into irrelevancy. I'd say on internet the biggest one is the piracy scene.

>>635322
Ramones were shit anyway

>>635322
Now I wonder what Varg thinks about Johnny Rotten

>>635322
>>635338
Sid Vicious (played by Gary Oldman) was NAZBOL

>>635324
>Chans are relics from early internet that were, in the west at least, either subverted or went into irrelevancy.
I feel like there's also another point to it, the fact that we're (theoretically) anonymous gives much more importance to what we say than who we are, thus making it a marketable place much harder.
>I'd say on internet the biggest one is the piracy scene.
I tend to agree with that, but I also consider the Open source scene quite relevant. Actually, the most interesting thing on the internet is this freedom we should have to access different kinds of media relatively easily

>>635343
>>635338
oh no no NO NO NO

>>635311
>Counter culture has always been doomed to subversion because every counter culture that I can think of is at best a kind of tantrum in the hurricane
Wasn't the cultural revolution some sort or counter culture?

By promoting cooperatives. It's a first step.

>>635359
Also, don't forget what was happening in the west at the time

>>635408
That's literally a conservative conspiracy theory

>>635350
>swastika becomes MAGA

quelle surprise!

>>635300
I fucking despise that webm, don't stop posting it

>>635854
Luckily for you it's an mp4

Mark Fisher is a goddamn clown and I'm pretty happy he an hero

>>635277
You can have anti-capitalist counter culture that can't be assimilated by capitalism, but you will need to find a way of distributing it in ways other than the commodity form.

The mode of distribution shapes the content it distributes.

>>635277
The "anti-capitalist" counterculture of the 20th century was never actually anti-capitalist. They just wanted to smoke weed, have long hair, fuck and rebel against their parents. Those same "rebels" grew up to be the neoliberal ghouls that currently rule over us today. Their cultural hegemony is opposed by the new counterculture: the alt-right, libertarian right and fascists etc.

Leftists have never tried to be edgy rebels, but instead have always demonstrated the moral authority inherent in them. We are fighting for a better world and don't need to sperg out in spite to do so.

>>635277
>I really feel like "chan" websites in general, together with "incel" culture, are the last remaining subversive counter cultural expression we have today (despite them being mainly right-wing)
Me too
>How did the capitalist ideology completely co-opt practically all the subversive cultural expressions into meaningless products?
They're capitalists, what do you expect more from them?

SO LONG AS WE CAN PROFIT FROM IT, WE CAN DO IT.

>>635884
but how is it that even anti-capitalist content on the internet, separate from the commodity form, was approperiated by capital and now a lot of the slogans that used to be leftist are now sanitized and used by anglo libcucks? phrases like eat the rich have no meaning anymore

>>636098
>but how is it that even anti-capitalist content on the internet, separate from the commodity form, was approperiated by capital and now a lot of the slogans that used to be leftist are now sanitized and used by anglo libcucks?
Because it has gone mainstream.

muh culture

>>635319
Because the "leftist" pseudos want to have their named remembered and are liberal at best. The Left as we know it here is an extreme minority.

You're fucking deluded if you believe there is a counterculture today or even more laughable, that right-wingers are a part of it.
Imageboards are only "subversive" in the meaning that most advertisers don't want to spend their money there, except for porn sites, cryptocoin scammers and stuff.

>>635319
>>636110
Leftists are on descentralized FLOSS alternatives to social media you dumbfuck.

>>635348
that's some vintage cringe

>>636098
Many things are not commodified, but the problem is reproducing a whole way of life that is not commodified. Like, when I do favors for my friends it is not commodified, but we can’t live off of favors between each other. We can share non-commodified images, text, whatever media, but capitalism will always subsume those non-commodified relationships and make them marginal by offering the ability to integrate them into the whole nexus of exchange relationships. You can still share your non-commodified content, but increasingly either the content will be repackaged as commodities to offer exchange value to the content creators (YouTube and video content for instance), or if the content can’t easily be commodified you have the commodification of the whole network by harvesting data and selling digital advertising spots or consumer profiles.

I think a truly impactful counter-culture would have to offer an alternative in a much broader way, whereas most counter-cultures have offered narrow alternatives at best. It would basically need to revolutionize our relationship to property that is foundational to social reproduction, most importantly stuff like food, housing, healthcare and transportation. But it can’t just be those, because in a sense that is exactly what the communal enclaves have done many times before. You can create some rural township or community that exists in a quasi-communist social order, like the Hutterites or something, but in service of certain levels of self-sufficiency these colonies are often characterized by less technological development, which while they may at times be resilient to destruction they don’t seem capable of aggressive expansion outwards when compared to the historical change of capitalist development. I think a powerful communist counter-culture would need to be able to more broadly consume the productive base of society. Basically re-enclose it, but FROM private capital.

>>636098
I don't know, culture stuff is difficult to understand, the only theory about it comes from bourgeois academics that is as tediously complicated as it is unhelpful. Culture that is truly subversive, is usually constituted of people that are completely oblivious to what they are doing.

Imagine the movie They Live. Where they manufacture anti ideology glasses, but instead of it being people that are aware how they are undermining how aliens enslave the humans. They just figured out how to make these glasses by accident and are making them because they think it's a neat trick. Instead of the scene where the protagonist of the movies has a fight with his friend to force him to wear the glasses (representative of the battle of making people aware they are being duped by ideology) The protagonists just gives his friend a pair and says something like "Here's a party trick, try wearing them , if your bored and need some way to pass the time"

If you haven't seen the movie here are the 2 scenes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g4XiKChyK7A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-mm4mLsCAyI

Counter culture never existed its just a cope to rebel LARPers so they can win money

>>635322
I guess that explains why i want to beat both of them to a pulp

Capitalism is here to stay, cope

>>635311
>while some hippies went out and formed rural communes they were mostly exceptions to the rule of slinking back into urban work culture, and those rural communes were like recapitulating the conflict between the peasantry and the landowners.
The "back-to-the-land" elements of the counterculture were actually an incubator of Silicon Valley's culture, believe it or not. See Stewart Brand and the "Whole Earth Catalog."

>>635277
right now it is to powerful to be defeated, we need to wait for it to be widely disbileaved to attack it, by letting it fail we can show people that it is false

>>636163
>I don't know, culture stuff is difficult to understand, the only theory about it comes from bourgeois academics that is as tediously complicated as it is unhelpful.
it isn't that complicated, except possibly for the works on aesthetics. counter-culture as a political strategy seems like it's basically a dead end now. the pace of commodification is far too fast right now for a counter-culture to offer a point of resistance for very long. another comment mentioned how counter-cultures are negatively related and dependent on a cultural mainstream, and these counter-cultures rarely proceed beyond this negative relating.

as for whether the right can be counter-cultural, the answer seems obvious: yes, of course. racist punk skinheads decades ago weren't in the cultural mainstream either. much of the left does conform to the dominant culture and its mores at present; leftists are in many ways this culture's most thorough and consistent exponent. this is also what results in critical support for neoliberals by leftists against right-wing figures like trump. so far as being a leftist has meaning for most people, it's just a more extreme form of progressive liberalism. not everyone on the left is a leftist in that sense, but the inability to locate a path between recuperation and reaction is one of the central problems right now for socialists.

Idk suck a dick?

>>636262
As a good punk, yes I will

Solarpunk seems like a pretty good counter-hopium.

>>635319
>Why do pseudo subversive people prefer twitter, Tumblr, or even telegram or reddit?
>How come they be more comfortable in the regulated, liberal cyberspace?
Because they are liberals in red, simple as.

>>636172
>Capitalism is here to stay, cope
nice b8 bro

>>653506
i'm hesitant to accept this take that everyone not on some left-wing chan is a liberal. seems defeatist. this place is arguably an inaccessible, gatekept, disorderly and confusing mess for many people. some people are just normies, that doesn't mean they're necessarily liberals.